what does disassociation look like?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

What does disassociation look like?

What is it?

I'm curious about it mostly from the experience of someone witnessing it, although I'd like to understand better what it actually is (or what causes it).

There's apparently a continuum. We get distracted, tune out, zone out, day dream. Disassociation seems to be used to describe a more severe form of distraction that happens during traumatic experiences. But then it seems to become a normal form of coping for some people.

If you've noticed disassociation happening in someone with BPD, what does it look like?

Can someone become permanently disassociated?

[livednlearned]

What does disassociation look like?

What is it?

I'm curious about it mostly from the experience of someone witnessing it, although I'd like to understand better what it actually is (or what causes it).

There's apparently a continuum. We get distracted, tune out, zone out, day dream. Disassociation seems to be used to describe a more severe form of distraction that happens during traumatic experiences. But then it seems to become a normal form of coping for some people.

If you've noticed disassociation happening in someone with BPD, what does it look like?

Can someone become permanently disassociated?

[GaGrl]

My H described his ex-wife (uBPD/NPD) as dissociating when she entered a rage. Both H and my stepdaughter describe first a change in her eyes. Even though the ex has dark brown eyes, they say her eyes changed to a flat, almost fully dilated condition. Once that happened, nothing could get through the following rage -- one could not reach her. And afterward, she would swear she didn't do or say whatever it was that she did indeed do or say.

This was problematic when she was violent. She told one judge she had no memory of bashing in a boyfriend's windshield with a tire iron, nor did she remember firing a gun at another boyfriend.

So I think, in our experience, there were physical symptoms of dissociation as well as memory issues.

[Notwendy]

I don't think I have good enough words to describe it- there is a certain "knowing" it- I think because, I experienced it as a young child- before the words were there. It's emotional and intuitive. Like primal - as a child we recognized it like someone senses something is going on.

The word that comes to mind is the look.

BPD mother has a baseline look to her eyes. Dark, steely, and cold. There's a look of rage in them when she dissociates, like she's possessed.

It's not just the eyes, but a change in color and muscles of the face too. And tone of voice.

I think the word is used in different situations. There's the dissociation when someone is "tuning out" something like abuse. In the movie "Precious"- she dissociates when this happens. I think the movie does a good job of this. But this is a quiet dissociation. Like she just leaves but her body is still there. Fortunately, I didn't experience that kind of SA as she did (trigger warning for anyone who might see the film) but I could recognize this quiet form of tuning out. I have done something similar too, especially if someone is angry at me or I feel anxious. I see this as a protective mechanism.

With BPD mother, it's not quiet. It's accompanied by rage and sometimes destroying things. It's like a volcano of emotions just take her over and she expels them. During this time, she is disconnected from herself and reality. It seems to also have a function of resetting her somehow. After she's done with it, she is calm and pleasant. She may or may not recall the incident, but since she feels OK, she assumes you do too and you don't dare bring it up with her.

[zachira]

Livednlearned,
As someone who has spent most of my life profundly disocciated, I can say that it can be hard to detect. EMDR is contraindicated for clients with disocciation, yet I did not show up with disocciation in the questionnaire my therapist had me answer. Once I began EMDR, I had terrible episodes of disocciation for up to a week after the session. My therapist went for a consult, and she was told to give me a 1 1/2 session which was the standard protocol for EMDR instead of giving me less time to save me money. Once I had the 1 1/2 sessions with enough time for the therapist to put me back together before I left the room, I was fine. EMDR is what allowed me to learn to be present and to be able to work on my traumas on my own. Prior to doing EMDR, people often expressed frustration with me, that I was not all there, like I was living in outer space or something like that.
I would say that paying attention to whether you can connect with a person or not, whether you are being seen or not, and what the person looks like, like are they making eye contact or do they have a glassy spaced out look in their eyes, will give you the best clues as to whether a person is present or possibly disocciated. We all have episodes of disocciation that are normal, like day dreaming for a few minutes when driving and not seeing what is going on around us.  

[TelHill]

hi livednlearned,

My mom's body would seem different. It's not fluid like when you're at home and relaxed. She legs would stiffen. Her body would go numb or look frozen. Her eyes weren't fixed looking at something. Her face was expressionless. As a kid I would shake her and she would respond slowly.  As a teen, I'd say something like what's with you a few times.

She'd rage and say abusive things to me or hit me. The eyes were flat and her face would look angry.   She had no trouble moving her body.

I don't know what set off either behavior.

[PearlsBefore]

Once that happened, nothing could get through the following rage -- one could not reach her. And afterward, she would swear she didn't do or say whatever it was that she did indeed do or say.

This was problematic when she was violent. She told one judge she had no memory of bashing in a boyfriend's windshield with a tire iron, nor did she remember firing a gun at another boyfriend.

Yes...but No; at least in our experience. Keep in mind there's a huge incentive to "forget" bad things you've done, especially if you struggle with BPD that already leaves you vulnerable to self-loathing - so while they're quick to claim they've dissociated and have no memory of events, it seemed there was normal memory-recall during "lucid periods". The problem is that the BPD manifests as insane 5-25% of the time, sane 5-25% of the time, and somewhere on the spectrum the rest of the time. So most of the time they honestly can't remember X, but when they're lucid and without triggers and let their guard down...the memories come flooding back. At least in our case.

[livednlearned]

I read something written about a woman with BPD who said she realized that she wasn't disassociating in therapy because she was disassociated. Permanently disassociated. She realized she had never been anything other than disassociated.

I think this might be true for my stepdaughter. When I met her for the first time, it was a surprise to both of us. I was with her dad on an evening when his kids were supposed to be with their mom. While we were out, SD26 had gone to her dad's without giving him a heads up so we weren't expecting she would be there. We came up a flight of stairs and she came running out to greet him. I saw her face light up and then when she saw me, it was like she grabbed a mask. Her face went expressionless with dead eyes.

I thought her flat affect was maybe autism but it seems hard even for experienced clinicians to tell whether a flat affect is from trauma or autism.

I see her facial expression seem so-called normal at times. It makes me think her flat affect is more about surviving trauma because it comes and goes. When her brother had emergency brain surgery, H said to me that he didn't think SD26 was processing it because she can be so expressionless, making it hard to tell what she's thinking. I wonder if the expressionless look she gets is a sign of her disassociating.
When she's angry, her face looks like she's trying to mask her anger, like she's battling to keep it expressionless but can't. Her BPD tends to be internalized and her aggression is mostly covert.

During a disassociation, I'm wondering how much of what is being said gets processed. It feels sometimes when I'm talking to SD26 that she's not there. Others have said the same thing. One time I was doing a puzzle with her and she kept trying to fit the same piece in the same place over and over and over and over like she was in a trance. She's college educated, so has capacity to do simple things like a puzzle.

The people who have autism in my life have a defined sense of self. If anything, that sense of self feels remarkably defined, even if there is low self-esteem. With SD26, she checks out so much it feels at times like you can't really socialize or communicate with her.

zachira, I think you answered my question by pointing out a person can be often disassociated. I had thought it was something fleeting that happened when triggered but it seems like the way SD26 comes across is probably disassociation even if the environment is not obviously triggering it.

[Outdorenthusiast]

What can also be a tell-tale sign is blackouts of memory where they don’t remember what happened for huge chunks of time.  Or, they remember something made up.  It usually occurs in stressful situations for them.  Some blackouts of memory can span years depending on the trauma.

[Notwendy]

With BPD mother, it's a transformation, physically and emotionally. Her facial expressions change, and the rage, the verbal abuse. It appears that she doesn't recall some of these. It's like a switch turns on and then, after she's raged, it resets itself.

[zachira]

Do people dissociate when they have a meltdown and go into a rage? Dissociation can happen when the emotions become overwhelming like in the moments when a child is being sexually abused. If the sexual abuse happens regularly the child can develop multiple personalities (DID). The child dissociates to tolerate the regular sexual abuse, and then is another person when safe like at school.
Healthy dissociation is when we daydream for short periods of time.

[Pook075]

I'll share a tidbit of my story.  My wife suffered from depression for a number of years- maybe half of our 24 year marriage.  Heck, maybe it was the whole time and she just hid it well.

Maybe a month before we separated, she stopped communicating to me on all but the most basic of levels.  If I asked her where she put the broom, she'd tell me.  If I asked how late she was working on Thursday, I got an appropriate answer.  But for most other things, she just listened and responded with a nod, one-word answers, or nothing at all.  I have no idea what she ever heard anymore and where her mind was in another world.

Anyway, she announces that she's leaving one evening and it was pretty much out of nowhere.  We talked briefly about what each of us could do to save the marriage, and I said things like "be more present when we're together", "spend less time on your phone", and stuff like that.  It seemed pretty constructive and I thought we were in a good place...we'd take some time apart and then work through this, making our marriage stronger than ever by really coming together.  Most of her complaints about me were valid as well and I promised to work on them.

Maybe two days later though, she absolutely blasts me.  She says that she can't think of a single reason to be with me and proceeded to name the worst things I had done over the past 24 years.  Instance after instance showing how horrible I was, they came rapid fire for the next week or so.  And I instantly realized that all that time she was quiet, depressed, and in her own little world in bed for the past 6+ months, she was reliving my worst possible moments and convincing herself that's who I was today.  For reference, the most recent of the things she named was about 12 years ago and had nothing to do with how we were as a couple today.

In other words, my wife broke up with me inside her head and convinced herself that I didn't love her, I wasn't there for her, and I would never put her needs first.  An example that came up multiple times was how I'd occasionally go shoot pool with my best friend after work.  But that was 20 years ago- I hadn't shot pool at all or saw that person for at least 15 years.  It was suddenly a huge problem in our marriage though and a big reason why she couldn't be with me.  And this had to be building for months as she searched her mind for every possible fault I had ever had.

That's disassociation in a nutshell- detaching from reality and making your world fit the flawed thinking inside your mind.  The truth of the matter is that my wife and I hadn't had an argument in years and got along great...up until the point where she got super quiet and turned inward.  Our marriage literally ended over a delusion within her mind, that I was this horrible person who only shot pool, hung out with friends, and belittled her every chance I got.  Absolutely none of it had anything to do with reality though.

I hope that helps.

[Notwendy]

I think we are looking at dissociation with or without other conditions. It's not specific to BPD. Anyone can dissociate under certain circumstances. In the movie, Precious, the main character does not have BPD. She dissociates due to abuse but she doesn't have disordered thinking.

Dissociation plus distorted thinking may look different. I think there may be lack of memory in both cases but how one fills in that memory could be different. How I describe it is that, I am in my own thoughts, but I don't have BPD. It's something like daydreaming- and it could be something pleasant even- like recalling a vacation or some conversation but these things really did happen. If someone has BPD, their thinking may be distorted. I also think the dissociation is more intense.

Dissociation plus depression is another situation. Depression involves "awfulizing"- thinking of things in the worse. So for Pook's post, there are several factors that led to the misperceptions. The event- playing pool with the friend. That in itself isn't a big deal but perhaps your wife felt abandoned and felt resentful. Somehow this didn't get resolved for her- communication must have broken down somewhere. I think this is an ordinary marital issue that otherwise may have been an argument or discussion that could be resolved, but when there's mental illness involved, communication is difficult.

We learned in 12 steps about resentment- when someone plays an event over in their thinking- even if it happened in the past. So even though it's been years since you played pool, this somehow is still in her thinking. This is a tough one when there's depression and BPD involved.

I think this is a difficult aspect of BPD. It's not that the person has somehow hurt the other person's feelings. This happens in all relationships. The issue is that there's a way to repair misunderstandings or transgressions between two people that seems to not be able to happen when BPD is involved. There's the disagreement, the apology, the attempt to do better. But with BPD, to avoid shame, the person dissociates. There's no accountability, and the thinking is from victim perspective, so they don't learn from there actions. It either disappears ( or seems to disappear)  from their memory or they project their blame, or see it as someone doing something to them.

Relationships involve two people, but with my BPD mother, there's one person. Her feelings, he wishes, her needs. To her, my role is to somehow meet these needs for her. But there's another person in this relationship- me- my thoughts, my feelings and these don't factor into her thinking. This limits the relationship.

[Methuen]

I think this is a difficult aspect of BPD. It's not that the person has somehow hurt the other person's feelings. This happens in all relationships. The issue is that there's a way to repair misunderstandings or transgressions between two people that seems to not be able to happen when BPD is involved. There's the disagreement, the apology, the attempt to do better. But with BPD, to avoid shame, the person dissociates. There's no accountability, and the thinking is from victim perspective, so they don't learn from there actions. It either disappears ( or seems to disappear)  from their memory or they project their blame, or see it as someone doing something to them.

This.  Dissociation permits them to not be accountable thus never learn from their mistakes, thus the relationship stays unhealthy because there is no mutual acknowledgment and thus there can be no learning or reparations.  It sets up an abusive pattern where one person always projects and gaslights the other.  I’ve never identified dissociation as the tool which allows mom to gaslight.  This is helpful.  

I am still trying to figure out what dissociation looks like on my mom.  

Here’s one example. My mom cant hear well and also cognitively can’t keep up with conversations anymore because her processing speed has really slowed down..  I believe this is the reason she doesn’t want to be at family gatherings anymore.  If the conversation isn’t about her directly, she gets quiet, and it becomes obvious she isn’t engaged.  She goes elsewhere in her thoughts.  Usually victimizing because if the conversation isn’t about her, she believes we are purposely leaving her out to hurt her.  She has accused me of that.  When she dissociates and gets quiet and goes somewhere else in her own thoughts,, it’s eerily like she vacates the room, thus making herself invisible.  But it’s everyone else’s fault because the conversation isn’t about her.

But there’s so much more to dissociation than I understand.  It profoundly confuses me how she can accuse me or H of the very thing she herself is guilty of - not being able to love her.  She clearly doesn’t love herself and has no sense of self, and despite the evidence that she is loved and all the special things and time family spends supporting her, she accuses of not being loved at the first instance of not having some need met. This is mind blowing to me and so irrational.  How can someone dissociate in spite of the facts?  Being accused of not loving her feels like emotional hostage taking.  It is unfair and unreasonable. Is dissociation the thing that doesn’t allow them to have an integrated sense of self?  Why do they dissociate when it is so harmful to relationships and wellbeing?  It doesn’t make sense to dissociate when the dissociation brings so much misery to everyone.  

[I Am Redeemed]

Dissociation is disconnecting from one’s feelings, thoughts, or identity. Disassociation is disconnecting from an event or experience, usually a traumatic one.

It’s semantics, and the words are used interchangeably, but there are specific psychological definitions for each.

Dissociation is used to describe a coping mechanism that all people have; some people use it more than others and to a more intense degree. It is a spectrum or continuum. There are three distinct dissociative disorders; there are some mental disorders that coincide with dissociation, and then there is the type of dissociation that people without any mental health issues experience.

Dissociation can be scrolling on social media for hours, binge watching a season of a favorite show, staying up late to read just one more chapter of a book, daydreaming while driving, etc.


Dissociation can be having an argument with someone that stems from feelings about a past event, not something happening in the present. Some dissociation can include memory loss, also known as dissociative amnesia, which also is categorized in different types.

Moderate to severe dissociation can look like glazed eyes, somebody being more quiet than usual, staring into space or acting as if they are in a trance. Mild dissociation can be “zoning out”, and everyone does it. Moderation is the key there.

If people use dissociation as a coping mechanism, I think that certainly, some may use it more frequently than others, and it’s possible to not realize that it’s happening. This could particularly be true if dissociation has been used as a frequent coping mechanism since childhood.

All the articles I have read about it say that certain mental health disorders have the potential for dissociation (that doesn’t meet criteria for a dissociative disorder). These mental health disorders include ptsd, depression, anxiety, and bpd, among others, and childhood trauma is usually cited as the reason for developing dissociative tendencies.

The inability to cope with deep shame and trauma is also cited as a reason for using dissociation as a coping mechanism. I think that this is in line with what pwbpd experience regarding toxic shame; it feels like death to them and they have several mental defenses against it. Dissociation could be one of them.

If dissociation includes separation from one’s identity or self, it makes sense that someone with bpd who struggles with a sense of self might be dissociated a lot.

[livednlearned]

If the conversation isn’t about her directly, she gets quiet, and it becomes obvious she isn’t engaged.  She goes elsewhere in her thoughts.  Usually victimizing because if the conversation isn’t about her, she believes we are purposely leaving her out to hurt her.  She has accused me of that.  When she dissociates and gets quiet and goes somewhere else in her own thoughts,, it’s eerily like she vacates the room, thus making herself invisible.  But it’s everyone else’s fault because the conversation isn’t about her.

This describes exactly what my mother does. But I'm not sure she has BPD because she seems able to tolerate being alone, although she is also on medications that are sedating so she sleeps a lot.

If my father and I discuss current events or something she isn't interested in, she sulks. She'll go quiet and if we realize she is there and not talking and try to engage her, she will either not respond or act like a martyr. It's like engaging a child, which makes me feel anger toward her.

Last night, she initiated a call to talk about a baseball game SS22 and I went to. It was her talking nonstop. She didn't ask how SS22 was doing, or me, or H. She just talked about the game. I tried to talk and she just talked over me. I was walking the dog with H and she was on speaker phone, and we kind of laughed and put her on mute and just carried on our own conversation. I even texted to say I didn't think she could hear me. It was strange to have her tell us about the game given she knew we were there in person, watching it live. She's not a curious person or interested in other people, and doesn't really have a back and forth conversation with people. It's more like she has her topic and other people have theirs, but they happen to be facing her so it looks like they're having a conversation.

SD26 has a version of this. If we aren't talking about her problems she is straight up not present. It's like she's miles and miles away. H thinks she has an auditory processing disability and maybe she does, who knows. But if it's about her, she seems perfectly capable of hearing and processing.

When she's a thousand miles away, H tries to joke her back to the present. That's a way to make it about her, so she'll come back from wherever she was, but if he goes back to talking about other things, she'll zone out again. I can tell she's gone because H will say something to me in her presence, like about a couple we're getting together with, and SD26 will nod her head and say "gotcha, ok, or great" like he's talking to her.

[Outdorenthusiast]

Maybe another more simple way to look at dissociation is disconnecting.  

Recently my therapist described what they are going through, and I will share as I feel it could help.  In severe trauma cases the brain protects itself to “heal” emotionally and buries painful memories and “forgets” them out of the temporal lobes in the hippocampus except for the necessary emotional responses needed to sustain human protection - fight, flight, fawn etc.  (think a saber tooth tiger mauling a cave man family and killing children). These physical emotional responses are stored in the brain stem.  The prefrontal cortex keeps those instincts in check to be impulsive rather than having to process complex memories to figure out what to do.  So someone with BPD may not continually remember the memory of what hurt them (which would be overwhelming), but they remember the anger, fear, shame and will react accordingly as instinctual protection, and the prefrontal cortex is just passing through the signals to say growling of cat = bad = run.

So… in my case my wife would be making toast in the kitchen and would wig out if I walked into the kitchen to get a cup of coffee.  Perfectly normal act.  Come to find out through therapy, her step dad did horrible things to her that had been totally blocked out and somehow getting a cup of coffee triggered something.  Now - her EMDR reprograms the prefrontal cortex to say person walking into kitchen = normal - no reason for alarm, stepdad= bad, not applicable in this situation, no need to react.

When disconnecting/dissociating it becomes “primal” they glaze over and thoughts escape the “logical” world (hippocampus) and go into the basic instinct world (brain stem).  Think cave man brain.   They aren’t “there” in a normal sense - and they cannot be reasoned with - that section of the brain isn’t functioning.  So to try to help clarify, for me what I have seen - it is much more than a depressed rumination of bad things, it is somehow a flip of a switch to a different part of the brain.  It can last for hours or days in my experience.  Then “events” or “years” can be forgotten in a well worn pattern of burying/forgetting/dissociating/disconnecting out of the hippocampus by the injured person.  It is important to remember it isn’t you that did anything.  Getting a cup of coffee in my example had nothing to do with me.  She can converse - but can’t use the higher functioning capabilities of process or discernment.  It is all about her world and her thoughts.

A small example - My wife can’t remember our honeymoon.  At the time 26 years ago, I thought she was just processing strong emotions of coming down from bride stress and starting a new life and moving out of state.  She couldn’t be rationalized with.  Full on meltdowns.  I know now, it was abandonment fears in full swing and in full on display, and active dissociative actions were happening.   I remember her eyes, her feral looks, and the frantic expressions of stress.  She vascilates between “flight” and “fawn” as her primary instinct responses.  The “fight” responses are unbearable.  When I see her face now, I know to validate feelings (talk to the cave man) and keep healthy boundaries - it can’t be fixed by me or rationalized.  If she can’t bring it under control - I respectfully step away until she can.  Eventually the cave man brain will get tired out and the hippocampus rational brain will take over and I can talk to her again like a normal human.

Hope my examples help to clarify my understanding of the difference between “dissociation” from discernment or rumination.  A complex symptom I had to figure out too.  

[Notwendy]

  Why do they dissociate when it is so harmful to relationships and wellbeing?  It doesn’t make sense to dissociate when the dissociation brings so much misery to everyone.  

My mother does this too and I think she's so overwhelmed with her own unhappiness that she doesn't take into account the effect on her behavior on other people. Also, there's a benefit to Victim position. In Victim position, the person is not accountable. So there's no shame. One doesn't blame victims. So I also see this as creating the situation where they feel like a victim. If they push people away, they take Victim perspective. I think this is a priority.

[zachira]

Dissociation is indeed a way of disconnecting. We cannot be connected all the time and do need moments away from being present. Healthy dissociation involves being disconnected like daydreaming for short periods of time, without losing contact with reality. Perhaps when we dream at night, we are in a state of dissociation.

DID, having multiple personalities, is the most disordered form of dissociation which began when the person could not bear to be connected in the moment or never learned to be connected in the moment. Chronic dissociation can be from being regularly helplessly sexually abused as a child by an adult who lived in the same house as the child. The child had to dissociate from the sexual abuse when it was happening and also find ways to not be overwhelmed by the sexual abuse when not being abused, in other words forgetting the sexual abuse completely for large periods of time, sometimes forgetting the sexual abuse happened for many years or never having an accessible verbal memory of the sexual abuse as an adult.

I was never sexually abused. My chronic dissociation before being treated with EMDR, stems from having a mother as a primary caretaker who had no capacity to connect with her children, unable to make eye contact with a baby. My dissociation is mainly from transgenerational trauma. I believe my mother was sexually abused by her grandfather.

On both sides of my large extended family, many members have very limited capacity for empathy for others. I am part of a narcissistic family system of many generations in which emotions are stuffed and showing feelings considered to be a sign of weakness. I believe many of my family members are dissociated from reality because they have been brought up to play certain roles and not to have empathy for others or self compassion.

Whatever the roots of chronic dissociation are, it in most cases requires long term therapy, as trying to connect to buried emotions and experiences and to be present in the moment, are way too traumatizing to do alone.

[livednlearned]

Zachira, do you think there is any benefit to doing grounding exercises when it seems obvious someone is disassociating?

I notice family members go along with this … disconnection or disassociation. SD26 will take long to answer, have no facial expression, seem thousands of miles away, and not be present, but people treat it as normal if not a bit strange.

It seems disconnection is more common than not but I’m also in a mom role so perhaps I see her in a disassociated state more? Maybe my proximity to her favorite person and the role she associates me with?  

Another time she seems not connected is when she eats. She eats so fast it’s socially noticeable. H does intervene sometimes by putting his hand on her arm or asking her a question so she comes out of this sort of food fugue state.

[Notwendy]

I know that I can "daydream" and tune out what is going on. If someone yells at me, I will also do that automatically. I do it around my BPD mother. I think I am in a mild state of disconnect ( whatever it is called) when I do visit my mother. I think this is both a protective mechanism and also due to abuse.

But it's different from when she dissociates. I don't have BPD or distorted thinking. This is probably a childhood response- similar to hiding under the bed out of fear. We grew up being very scared of my mother. These are quiet responses.  Her states are her being out of control, either raging or saying/doing things that are hurtful.

[TelHill]

I think dissociation, abuse, delusions, self destructive behaviors are part of the bpd package.  Look at these behaviors separately and it could be any mental health disorder or normal, but neurotic behavior. I get BPD putting them together.

My mom used to take me to a park to play ages 5 and younger. I believe she timed our trips there to avoid other mothers because I played by myself. I found a doll and a few outfits there one day.  I was overjoyed and she allowed me to take it home. Once home she announced we had to return the doll. Disappointed, I asked why. She said we would get in trouble if we didn't. 

That was paranoia but what was going on in her mind? I assume it was something from the past that had little to do with the present. No one was in the park.  My in denial dad would've done nothing to us.

A normal mom wouldn't have let me take the doll. She would have left it for the rightful owner to find or taken it to the lost and found. It could have served as a character building exercise for me.

[zachira]

Livednlearned,
In response to your question, I do grounding exercises regularly now, and I would not have been able to do them before I had my dissociation treated with EMDR.

[Outdorenthusiast]

Zachira, do you think there is any benefit to doing grounding exercises when it seems obvious someone is disassociating?

I notice family members go along with this … disconnection or disassociation. SD26 will take long to answer, have no facial expression, seem thousands of miles away, and not be present, but people treat it as normal if not a bit strange.

It seems disconnection is more common than not but I’m also in a mom role so perhaps I see her in a disassociated state more? Maybe my proximity to her favorite person and the role she associates me with?  

Another time she seems not connected is when she eats. She eats so fast it’s socially noticeable. H does intervene sometimes by putting his hand on her arm or asking her a question so she comes out of this sort of food fugue state.

In my observations,

Grounding = bringing them to the present and helping them recognize what is going on (stop them from spacing out, over reactions based upon perceived “what if” fears etc.)

EMDR = reprogramming a neurological and visceral fight, flight, fawn response learned but uncontrollable behavior programmed into the brain from trauma.  EMDR reprograms the cerebral cortex’s caveman reactions. (Like training a muscle). No amount of “grounding” could overcome it - it isn’t rational - it is survival instinctual.

My wife is noticeably less paranoid, reactive etc since doing EMDR.  She is about 4 months into it. (Apparently a lot to process and reprogram).

[TelHill]

My dBPD mom refuses talk therapy but welcomes psychotropic meds.  There's no shame with that because deep depression runs in her family.

Taking an SSRI for depression and an anti-anxiety pill helped her calm down. The dissociation wasn't as strong now that I think about it. The anti-anxiety drug was discovered to cause or worsen cognitive decline. It made seniors more prone to falling.  Both have happened so her doctor won't prescribe the anti-anxiety drug. She still asks for it.

I've had EMDR and it helped with my PTSD and trauma from childhood. I do EFT tapping on myself to relieve anxiety. It helps me get on with my day. 

[I Am Redeemed]

Zachira,

Would you mind sharing what grounding exercises you use?

Tel hill- how does EFT tapping work? I’m interested to know more about that.

[zachira]

I Am Redeemed,
I was first introduced to trauma release exercises (TRE) by my therapist. This was before I had EMDR and the exercises were overwhelming for me. My therapist was a bioenergetics therapist, and some of the bioenergetics exercises we did like hitting a pillow with a tennis raquet were like getting into the anger cycle, feeling better temporarily and then overwhelmed later. I started TRE exercises again after I had EMDR therapy. There are many TRE exercises on youtube. The underlying theory for grounding is basically the same as doing TRE exercises. We have trauma frozen in certain parts of our body, and unlocking the frozen parts, will release the trauma. A person has to be stable enough to be able to experience the relief and not retreat back into the trauma while and after doing the TRE exercises. It is not recommended to do TRE exercises alone without a qualified therapist present, unless the person has a certain level of stability, usually a fair amount of recovery from long term therapy. I am planning to hire a yoga trauma therapist I know to help me work on parts of my body that are still shut down.The yoga trauma therapist told me that it can take several sessions with a severely traumatized client before she is able to do any movement with them at all. I am now working on a routine to exercise all parts of my body, and adding new exercises. I meditate every day so no emotions and feelings become too overwhelming. I am finally able to get massages and enjoy them, where in the past getting a massage was pure torture for both me and the masseuse. People who are extremely well adjusted and happy, have open joyful body language.The more closed off the body language, the stiffer the body, the more trauma there is to process. I know this is a very complicated answer to your question, and healing our bodies from trauma is a long courageous process that most of us who have been severely traumatized cannot do alone until we have done considerable personal therapy. I realize many members here have been to therapy and are perhaps ready to do TRE exercises on their own. I recommend starting slowly with the TRE exercises and waiting 48 hours before adding new exercises.

[TelHill]

Hello I Am Redeemed,

I do quick and easy tapping. While I'm doing my morning and evening meditations, I set a timer for 3 minutes and tap my shoulders from right to left over and over again until time is up.

It relaxes me and lifts fear from me. Nothing from my past comes up like it does with EMDR. Tapping is a substitute for getting a hug. Hope that helps!

[I Am Redeemed]

TelHill,

Thank you, that sounds really easy and I think my therapist mentioned doing something like that before. The back and forth tapping is supposed to mimic EMDR or something like that.

I googled EFT tapping and found a method that was more complicated. I may try it sometime, but the simple tapping sounds like a better place to start.

Zachira,

I’ve heard good things about yoga for trauma release. A professor of mine from grad school was planning on getting certified in trauma release yoga. It sounds like something I would be interested in doing. I’m going to ask my therapist about that and about the TRE.

I am very stiff in my body, even after a lot of therapy and EMDR. I have knots in my shoulders because they are so tense. I went to the doctor about it not too long ago and she said that I basically have a constant muscle spasm going on in my neck and shoulders. I’ve thought about getting a massage, but I don’t know if I would be comfortable with that.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I’ve thought about getting a massage, but I don’t know if I would be comfortable with that.

I personally think the fact you are not comfortable with that indicates you should totally do it.

A lot of somatic therapy actually has to do with desensitization, and therapeutic massage can help with that. I think there even are some trauma release massage, where you work with a therapist to slowly desensitize yourself to touch.

Edit : sorry for the formatting, messed up the quote box.

[I Am Redeemed]

I’ve thought about getting a massage, but I don’t know if I would be comfortable with that.

I personally think the fact you are not comfortable with that indicates you should totally do it.

A lot of somatic therapy actually has to do with desensitization, and therapeutic massage can help with that. I think there even are some trauma release massage, where you work with a therapist to slowly desensitize yourself to touch.

Edit : sorry for the formatting, messed up the quote box.

I’ve heard that, as well. I think I’m afraid that if I do get a massage, it will release a flood of emotions that I can’t control.