exwBPD won't admit to cheating

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hello all, I've been reading through this forum while dealing with the end of a relationship with a pwBPD. First and foremost, we're long distance and haven't even met in person, but our contact was constant and terrific if maybe spotty in a few places from the time we started. We had plans on moving in together, and she had dropped from both a master's program and a work contract, and had put in motion the sale of her own property. I had no doubt that the emotion was sincere and the relationship was in good standing, even though we had experienced a few hiccups wherein she had been at single female friends home that had no respect for our relationship and would invite men over, but in those extremely few instances she would call my phone and stay on the line if she was too inebriated to drive home, or even then call me on the drive home when excusing herself if she was sober enough.

Everything had gone well up until the start of July and we were meant to move in together August, but on the 4th of July she went to a party that she at first had said was family, but at 1AM she calls me extremely inebriated, later to find out she was high as well, and tells me she loves me etc,. I ask her where she is, because we hadn't talked in hours, and she effectively lies to me and tells me she is at a different friend's house, even though she had slipped a detail unique to the other friend (the one with little respect to the relationship) home. I didn't make a big deal of the situation and gave her the benefit of the doubt. Later that night I tried to message her again, and my iMessages would not deliver (a sign that I was blocked, or the phone was offline). I again gave her the benefit of the doubt, but the messages never delivered. I waited to see if she would call me first, typically she would let me know how family nights ended, but this time she didn't. She dodged me the entire next day, responding to one message where she seemed agitated and left it at that. A whole day later she still won't answer my messages, and tells me she is at work for a minute before blocking me again (again messages would not deliver). We finally got to talk on the 7th, and when I asked her about the night and asked her why she lied about where she was, she got extremely defensive. Later she insisted she was at a family party, and that it was both the friends family and hers at the party that night and that there had been a huge family fight at the end of the night because she was planning on leaving and her brother had to pick her up. I was hesitant to believe her and I accused her of lying, and cheating, because I did not understand BPD at the time nor I could figure any sensible reason as to why you would ghost someone for two days. We almost split up, she deleted her social media, and due to my attachment I reconciled. Since then she has been extremely secretive, and I've also caught her on lies, as well as discovering that she had not deleted her social media. I haven't been able to believe the story she gave me, and so I asked her for evidence. Anything that could pacify such a blatant and surreal change in her regular pattern. I asked her for the call log that night to show me that she had ended the night at her brothers, but she refuses and says that she routinely deletes her call log. I know it's not impossible to find a call, and it's literally the only proof I need, but she won't give it. She demand I just trust her, but I've told her it's impossible to give trust to someone that has blatantly lied to me.

I'm still fairly certain something actually happened, because she's a very sexual person, and being drunk and high. At the very least, I just want closure and her to admit it, I'm still very much attached to her, and I want more than anything for her to be able to substantiate the claim. I've spoken to the brother, but he is also incapable of providing the call log for that night. It's something so easy, but neither of them can do it. She's gone through the spiral and has even threatened suicide, blaming me for not trusting her when she "apologized" for lying, and for me not rewarding her being truthful and owning up to the lies. I just don't know what to do, the past week I've been in a push-pull with her, and I've told her we're over, but she won't leave me alone and keeps insisting she did nothing that night besides what she told me. Can anyone give advice? Anything is appreciated. Any similar experiences are welcome as well.

[DefensorDown]

Hello all, I've been reading through this forum while dealing with the end of a relationship with a pwBPD. First and foremost, we're long distance and haven't even met in person, but our contact was constant and terrific if maybe spotty in a few places from the time we started. We had plans on moving in together, and she had dropped from both a master's program and a work contract, and had put in motion the sale of her own property. I had no doubt that the emotion was sincere and the relationship was in good standing, even though we had experienced a few hiccups wherein she had been at single female friends home that had no respect for our relationship and would invite men over, but in those extremely few instances she would call my phone and stay on the line if she was too inebriated to drive home, or even then call me on the drive home when excusing herself if she was sober enough.

Everything had gone well up until the start of July and we were meant to move in together August, but on the 4th of July she went to a party that she at first had said was family, but at 1AM she calls me extremely inebriated, later to find out she was high as well, and tells me she loves me etc,. I ask her where she is, because we hadn't talked in hours, and she effectively lies to me and tells me she is at a different friend's house, even though she had slipped a detail unique to the other friend (the one with little respect to the relationship) home. I didn't make a big deal of the situation and gave her the benefit of the doubt. Later that night I tried to message her again, and my iMessages would not deliver (a sign that I was blocked, or the phone was offline). I again gave her the benefit of the doubt, but the messages never delivered. I waited to see if she would call me first, typically she would let me know how family nights ended, but this time she didn't. She dodged me the entire next day, responding to one message where she seemed agitated and left it at that. A whole day later she still won't answer my messages, and tells me she is at work for a minute before blocking me again (again messages would not deliver). We finally got to talk on the 7th, and when I asked her about the night and asked her why she lied about where she was, she got extremely defensive. Later she insisted she was at a family party, and that it was both the friends family and hers at the party that night and that there had been a huge family fight at the end of the night because she was planning on leaving and her brother had to pick her up. I was hesitant to believe her and I accused her of lying, and cheating, because I did not understand BPD at the time nor I could figure any sensible reason as to why you would ghost someone for two days. We almost split up, she deleted her social media, and due to my attachment I reconciled. Since then she has been extremely secretive, and I've also caught her on lies, as well as discovering that she had not deleted her social media. I haven't been able to believe the story she gave me, and so I asked her for evidence. Anything that could pacify such a blatant and surreal change in her regular pattern. I asked her for the call log that night to show me that she had ended the night at her brothers, but she refuses and says that she routinely deletes her call log. I know it's not impossible to find a call, and it's literally the only proof I need, but she won't give it. She demand I just trust her, but I've told her it's impossible to give trust to someone that has blatantly lied to me.

I'm still fairly certain something actually happened, because she's a very sexual person, and being drunk and high. At the very least, I just want closure and her to admit it, I'm still very much attached to her, and I want more than anything for her to be able to substantiate the claim. I've spoken to the brother, but he is also incapable of providing the call log for that night. It's something so easy, but neither of them can do it. She's gone through the spiral and has even threatened suicide, blaming me for not trusting her when she "apologized" for lying, and for me not rewarding her being truthful and owning up to the lies. I just don't know what to do, the past week I've been in a push-pull with her, and I've told her we're over, but she won't leave me alone and keeps insisting she did nothing that night besides what she told me. Can anyone give advice? Anything is appreciated. Any similar experiences are welcome as well.

[Pook075]

Hello friend and welcome to the forum.  I'm really sorry you're going through this and we can all understand the levels of frustration. 

To be clear of my intentions here, you posted this under the "detaching and learning after a failed relationship", so that's the advice you'll receive here.  Your expectations of someone with BPD are very off if you expect her to:

1) Admit she lied
2) Provide proof that she didn't lie, cheat, etc.
3) Give you any sort of closure

My best guess is that she did lie about something and likely regrets it.  It is your choice to forgive her or move on, but I will throw out a warning that this is not one-off behavior that will simply vanish once you reconnect.  She's struggling emotionally and the fear of abandonment is what drives her.  She messed up and her worst fears came true- she was abandoned once you called her bluff. 

Maybe it's mostly her fault, not taking her side at all here, but she'll likely never admit to it and give you more ammunition to hurt her because again, that's one of her greatest fears.

Good luck to you- please take some time to read the sticky topics along the top of this page (or any page) and work on focusing on yourself for a bit.  The further you distance yourself from this relationship (if you're truly moving on), the better.  Or if you do want to try to reconcile, then you have to let go of the "prove it to me" mindset.  Apologizes are very rare with BPD and there's a number of reasons she could have lied about where she was.

[TheRedLion]

Hi DefensorDown

She's gone through the spiral and has even threatened suicide, blaming me for not trusting her when she "apologized" for lying, and for me not rewarding her being truthful and owning up to the lies.

Clearly, as you've put quotes around the word "apologized", you know this is questionable behavior. I'll go one step further: this is manipulative behavior. She lied and wasn't truthful, yet she blames you for not trusting her. She apologized in a way she thinks is acceptable, but she doesn't understand that apologies are meant for you, not her. She is upset that you've not gone back to normalcy after this, so she threatens suicide. Why is she doing these things? Well, these are clearly manipulative tactics. I'd categorize most of these as blame shifting (sounds like she's gaslighting you too, except you're catching her in her lies). She's doing them so that a) you feel bad about questioning her, and instead question yourself, b) blame can be put on you for these fights, even though your actions have been entirely logical and respectful.

As Pook075 said, the kind of respectful honesty and empathy you seek you probably won't get. Has she given you any reason why she ghosted you for multiple days? Has she given you any reason why she lied to you about what was happening?

You're right. It's difficult to believe someone who doesn't tell the truth. The Boy Who Cried Wolf comes to mind. It happened all the time throughout my relationship, and again as Pook075 mentioned, it's very very likely that this will not be one-off.

I went through a series of lies that may or may not be centered around cheating, but definitely were centered around drunken flirting+ which ended my relationship. I've been trying to process with therapists what happened and how it came to that, especially after I had been so patient and understanding about past odd experiences with other men. I too got ghosted. I too got manipulated, specifically gaslighting, blame-shifting, projecting, triangulation, and generalizations. She threatened to break up **WITH ME** twice after she'd been the one to do wrong. I was told that as a man, I wouldn't understand.

The funny this was, when I spoke to the important women in my life (my sister, my mom, my female friends) they all completely saw my experiences and emotions as valid, and said that being a man or woman had nothing to do with it (they are all feminists). After the breakup, I've begun to understand that I wasn't going to be capable of getting the closure that I was looking for. Instead, I need to (and have been) working on my own reasons for why I was so patient and understanding for things that I never should have been. I have been slowly coming to the realization that I was given a losing poker hand but was going all in because of emotional attachment, not because of the cards on the table. Sunk cost fallacy.

I'm also seeing a therapist who has a Phd in psychology and specifically specializes in personality disorders, and she's been incredible in making me more skeptical of what happened and understanding my part in the relationship. She thinks there was much more lying that I had originally thought. She is skeptical of my ex's every word. She wants me to go NC. She questions my every move, but in an emotionally supportive way (not in a BPD controlling way). I'm beginning to heal. But if there's one thing I've learned from my therapist, it's that more happened than I could've ever known. And that I was too accepting of things I should've never been.

If you sense something's wrong, it probably is. If you sense she's acting questionable, she probably is. Trust yourself and get the help you need. And first and foremost, don't caretake for her just because she manipulates you—you are your first priority. If she can give you the closure you need, that's wonderful. But come in with the expectation she can't, and figure out how to get your own needs met.