Just here for some validation and understanding

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Dear all,

I am writing here to find some answers and maybe some sort of comfort and validation, most importantly closure. My story is the following:
I have met a person last year who i started a relationship with. The connection from the beginning was extremely intense, beautiful, the very well known feeling of "I never felt so understood and loved before". Our first 6-7 weeks were amazing, fantastic conversations, lots of shared interests, romantic gestures etc... We are both in therapy, so we had some deep talks on our traumatic childhoods, very similar past. These conversations from my ex partner shed a light on what kind of therapy he is involved in, namely Schema therapy and he mentioned some wisemind exercises (this has led me later to think he might have BPD, after looking for answers on the internet, he has never disclosed this infromation to me). He has said many times he struggles with abandonment issues, has a very rocky relationship with his family, namely his dad who he says is a person w NPD. Our falling off started when I had a very intense and mentally challenging project at work and I started to see signs of him pulling away, critisizing my character as in I am too strong, assertive. I told him innocently that if he thinks that is an issue we might be not compatible because this is very much something which helped me survive on my own after a  very tragic childhood of losing both of my parents. After this conversation, from one night to the other, he completely changed. There was no affection anymore, no physical contact at all, no cuddles... nothing. The sudden change was very mind-boggling, but due to the fact he said he is dealing with other stressors in his life I have not given up on the connection. I kept trying to juggle my own personal responsibilities and be there for him as much as I could. We kept meeting for weeks afterwards, cooking together and I was never pushing him in any way because his energy level was so very low. I think, around 3 weeks one evening we had a lovely dinner together, and we talked about his problems (only his problems) for hours. I felt things are getting better so I decided the next time we see each other  it's time for me to talk about my side of the story. 2 days later I met him again, this was the day of his therapy session and I cannot explain it better than when he opened his entrance door to greet me I have met the coldest, iciest iceberg in person ever, standing front of me. He started to talk about his session and I was listening, but after some time I started to say my side of this story. During this whole time of the crisis, he constantly said to me his therapist recommended to avoid deep and triggering conversations, which I tried to follow but he always ended up talking and talking about himself. So naturally, I thought okay, I have to give my input, be vulnerable and tell him how I feel. How scared I am to what's happening and have no clue how to help, how much it triggers my own issues and how confused and anxious I am. And the most painful answer I received, first he critisized my tone (I was not speaking any diffrenetly), then he just blatantly said this conversation is not good for his mental health. And then... well I lost it, I stormed off taking a shower, when I returned I went to bed and he kept coming after me and then I exploded... I asked him what he wants from me, shall I stop the conversation, or why he doesn't let me sleep. He was saying and asking things like he feels sorry for my erruption, if I am always this agressive when in conflict, that he undertstands that I have trauma blablabla... I started to dress up and he kept me there, being seemingly not so sad anymore. Somehow this whole night he was able to keep his cool, but kept his emotional and mental distance, but twisting the story line in a way it's me who is the problem. He also asked me to leave, but mentioned he does not want to end the relationship. He sent a follow up message stating that he hopes we both can sleep a bit and come to find a constructive solution the next day. I messaged him the next day, stating again that I don't wan this to finish but until he doesn't know why the issue with intimacy came up it's best to stay only friends, otherwise I will suffer even more. He agreed, said a very general sorry and asked me to be patient and that i very much deserve an answer. This was more than 3 months ago, I have only sent 4 messages since then. The first: 2 days later stating that I don't need answers but cheking in if he needs anything, he only answered with a praying emoji. The 2nd was a lengthy cute story 2 weeks later, only a heart emoji as answer. The third a month later with zero communication to ask to get my stuff from his home. The 4th was when I caved and sent a picture of our first date location, with crying and heart emojis, saying that how I feel and how much i want him to be okay and happy, where he finally answered and said how bad he is still feeling all alone, but we both will be okay soon...and that everything will be okay...
so, I know this is an extremely long post, I'm sorry but it is in a way a post to summarize and see what the actual heck happened. I still have a huge amount of cognitive dissonance, not sure if he has some narc traits or borderline, I don't think this even matters anymore. I am in NC for more than 3 months, it was hell the first 2, I felt my soul is crumbling but I am much much better now. I just have the worst feeling of still wanting to meet him and ask what happened. And I need some encouragment and few words to stop me  from all of you. Thank you for reading my ranting and to let me be here, it helps so much to know I'm not alone and there's hope. This is one of the most painful emotional trauma what I went through and mainly I don't want to hold it inside me anymore. Thanks again and if you have something to say to me, I would be very glad to read from you all. Much love, Arkana

[Arkana]

Dear all,

I am writing here to find some answers and maybe some sort of comfort and validation, most importantly closure. My story is the following:
I have met a person last year who i started a relationship with. The connection from the beginning was extremely intense, beautiful, the very well known feeling of "I never felt so understood and loved before". Our first 6-7 weeks were amazing, fantastic conversations, lots of shared interests, romantic gestures etc... We are both in therapy, so we had some deep talks on our traumatic childhoods, very similar past. These conversations from my ex partner shed a light on what kind of therapy he is involved in, namely Schema therapy and he mentioned some wisemind exercises (this has led me later to think he might have BPD, after looking for answers on the internet, he has never disclosed this infromation to me). He has said many times he struggles with abandonment issues, has a very rocky relationship with his family, namely his dad who he says is a person w NPD. Our falling off started when I had a very intense and mentally challenging project at work and I started to see signs of him pulling away, critisizing my character as in I am too strong, assertive. I told him innocently that if he thinks that is an issue we might be not compatible because this is very much something which helped me survive on my own after a  very tragic childhood of losing both of my parents. After this conversation, from one night to the other, he completely changed. There was no affection anymore, no physical contact at all, no cuddles... nothing. The sudden change was very mind-boggling, but due to the fact he said he is dealing with other stressors in his life I have not given up on the connection. I kept trying to juggle my own personal responsibilities and be there for him as much as I could. We kept meeting for weeks afterwards, cooking together and I was never pushing him in any way because his energy level was so very low. I think, around 3 weeks one evening we had a lovely dinner together, and we talked about his problems (only his problems) for hours. I felt things are getting better so I decided the next time we see each other  it's time for me to talk about my side of the story. 2 days later I met him again, this was the day of his therapy session and I cannot explain it better than when he opened his entrance door to greet me I have met the coldest, iciest iceberg in person ever, standing front of me. He started to talk about his session and I was listening, but after some time I started to say my side of this story. During this whole time of the crisis, he constantly said to me his therapist recommended to avoid deep and triggering conversations, which I tried to follow but he always ended up talking and talking about himself. So naturally, I thought okay, I have to give my input, be vulnerable and tell him how I feel. How scared I am to what's happening and have no clue how to help, how much it triggers my own issues and how confused and anxious I am. And the most painful answer I received, first he critisized my tone (I was not speaking any diffrenetly), then he just blatantly said this conversation is not good for his mental health. And then... well I lost it, I stormed off taking a shower, when I returned I went to bed and he kept coming after me and then I exploded... I asked him what he wants from me, shall I stop the conversation, or why he doesn't let me sleep. He was saying and asking things like he feels sorry for my erruption, if I am always this agressive when in conflict, that he undertstands that I have trauma blablabla... I started to dress up and he kept me there, being seemingly not so sad anymore. Somehow this whole night he was able to keep his cool, but kept his emotional and mental distance, but twisting the story line in a way it's me who is the problem. He also asked me to leave, but mentioned he does not want to end the relationship. He sent a follow up message stating that he hopes we both can sleep a bit and come to find a constructive solution the next day. I messaged him the next day, stating again that I don't wan this to finish but until he doesn't know why the issue with intimacy came up it's best to stay only friends, otherwise I will suffer even more. He agreed, said a very general sorry and asked me to be patient and that i very much deserve an answer. This was more than 3 months ago, I have only sent 4 messages since then. The first: 2 days later stating that I don't need answers but cheking in if he needs anything, he only answered with a praying emoji. The 2nd was a lengthy cute story 2 weeks later, only a heart emoji as answer. The third a month later with zero communication to ask to get my stuff from his home. The 4th was when I caved and sent a picture of our first date location, with crying and heart emojis, saying that how I feel and how much i want him to be okay and happy, where he finally answered and said how bad he is still feeling all alone, but we both will be okay soon...and that everything will be okay...
so, I know this is an extremely long post, I'm sorry but it is in a way a post to summarize and see what the actual heck happened. I still have a huge amount of cognitive dissonance, not sure if he has some narc traits or borderline, I don't think this even matters anymore. I am in NC for more than 3 months, it was hell the first 2, I felt my soul is crumbling but I am much much better now. I just have the worst feeling of still wanting to meet him and ask what happened. And I need some encouragment and few words to stop me  from all of you. Thank you for reading my ranting and to let me be here, it helps so much to know I'm not alone and there's hope. This is one of the most painful emotional trauma what I went through and mainly I don't want to hold it inside me anymore. Thanks again and if you have something to say to me, I would be very glad to read from you all. Much love, Arkana

[Cat Familiar]

Short answer: this is who he is. It’s easy to get blindsided at the beginning of a relationship with someone who has a personality disorder—it’s magical, the answer to your prayers, your soulmate. Then, with time, a different personality emerges. But we cling to the hope that the person we initially met and fell in love with will return.

Certainly we might see glimpses of that person now and then. But honestly, we fell in love with an illusion. They were mirroring us. And now they no longer want to do that.

Typically they have endless stories of how others have betrayed them, abused them—a long history of failed relationships. Now you understand why.

[Arkana]

Cat Familiar: Thank you for taking your time to answer, I appreciate it. Yes, now I know why, very true ...nevertheless it doesn't take away the fact:  I honestly don't know how others - who live in this for years, decades - can survive this. My heart goes out to all of them, it's truly so tragic.
I also have read that there is no point of further communication for the sake of saving ourselves, but I am conflicted there. If we never ever ask for accountability or somehow enable them to keep destroying lives how this will end?
My ex partner was in therapy, which is also a question in me, how the therapist doesn't see what's going on? Or if he is in therapy, would he be somewhat conscious about what's happening? Is there any possibility for him to get better?

[once removed]

If we never ever ask for accountability

a breakup is accountability.

it is the resolution of conflict in a relationship. not the resolution of grief, certainly, but whatever problems there were in the relationship? gone.

Is there any possibility for him to get better?

generally speaking, there is the possibility for anyone to get better. most of us, from relationship to relationship, "do a little better each time".

if one is emotionally done with a relationship, its a moot question. why? well, we may think this person may get better, they may get worse, but there was something about them that wasnt for me, and im walking away from that. hard, but necessary.

obviously, this breakup hit harder than that, but it also left doubt in your mind. you walked away, but you werent done.

exploring that - finding why you broke up, what was incompatible, what about him was "not for you", can help resolve that.

[15years]

I honestly don't know how others - who live in this for years, decades - can survive this. My heart goes out to all of them, it's truly so tragic.

I'm going to take this comment to heart and feel a little sorry for myself. Seventeen years in and it's an everyday struggle. Always been wondering if I am only feeling sorry for myself and don't accept responsibility, but I'm slowly improving. You're making the right decision to not commit to a relationship like this. I can hear from your writing that you haven't yet lost your version of reality.

It's so so so tiring to live with a person who always finds ways to justify their emotions.

[capecodling]

If we never ever ask for accountability or somehow enable them to keep destroying lives how this will end?
My ex partner was in therapy, which is also a question in me, how the therapist doesn't see what's going on? Or if he is in therapy, would he be somewhat conscious about what's happening? Is there any possibility for him to get better?

Well it isn’t really our job to hold the BPD accountable for the future damage they do.  The best we can do in terms of holding them accountable is usually not letting them recycle us over and over.  Or if they are the ones who have discarded us, we can hold them accountable  by sticking to NC.

That said, it is better that he is in therapy rather than not, but it doesn’t give you any sort of guarantee he will get better.  For something like BPD it can’t just be idle talk therapy, it has to be hard core deep work the person is doing to slay their BPD dragon, I can pretty much guarantee this isn’t the case with 99.9% of BPDs including yours.

I connected and related with a lot of what you said.  like you I am also at the 3 month mark and the pain has gone from “almost unbearable” (right after breakup) to “manageable but still unpleasant” (now). One of the things that has helped me it to remember how I felt with her (all the pain I have now + crippling anxiety + sleep issues + many other things) versus how you feel now (still in pain but without the anxiety and sleep issues.)  Your own body and emotions can help you see how you have made the right decision.  

I have also kept voice memos and such, cataloging this information so I can go listen to them in moments of weakness.  The trauma bond you still have will cause your mind to play tricks on you and make you second guess yourself a lot.  Its the main strategy in the whole BPD playbook, not that they necessarily know what they are doing, but its there.  Keeping records for yourself can help you stay the course and keep away from them, and their endless ways they will inflict pain on you if you do not.

[Heartbroken94]

Hi Arkana,

I just want to say that I read your post and my heart goes out to you. It'll get better. 

[jaded7]

My heart goes out to all of them, it's truly so tragic.
I also have read that there is no point of further communication for the sake of saving ourselves, but I am conflicted there. If we never ever ask for accountability or somehow enable them to keep destroying lives how this will end?

Arkana, it was good to read your story, you captured all the feelings and confusion so well. I hope that writing it out has been therapeutic for you. You'll hear from others here, and if you read all th many other threads here, that all of this is very much par for the course.

I do not think there is every any point in further communication for 'accountability'. The defense mechanisms of BPD/Cluster B make this a very, very fraught idea. In my experience, and in my hundreds of hours of watching videos and reading articles, this will not work. You will not be able to get them to acknowledge what happened, how confusing their behavior was, how hurtful and painful their words were. It will not happen. I tried it in my last conversation with my ex...just very calmly explaining to her how hurtful her words were, how hurtful her behavior was, etc...and it was just deflection after deflection, denial of my feelings after denial, accusation after accusation, lies after lie.

I was, honestly, very clear-headed and very calm and respectful (I have always been with her, and for that I'm proud of myself)...and I remember thinking this person is seriously mentally ill. I even called my friend after and said that.

There was ZERO accountability, zero acknowledgement of ANYTHING...total denial of the facts, total rewriting of history, total gaslighting about what happened and what was said. And attack after attack, out of nowhere, on my character, my business, my contribution to society, my ethics, my friends...machine gun like.

Shocking.