"Gaining back power" -- An alternative interpretation of the discard

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I feel that a lot of the views on this board can be quite myopic. For those of use who are stuck in the cycle of attracting or being attracted to emotionally unavailable partners, hearing that the love we felt was never 'real' almost perpetuates the self-view that the BPD partner tries to leave us with post-discard (by rewriting the relationship history as us never having been worthy of their real 'love').

I have been searching a lot in my attempt to make sense of my previous relationship without capitulating to her erasure of our positive shared experiences. My ex was quiet BPD, and seemingly she was working very hard until the end to keep from being openly abusive (until the end, when the dam started to crack and leaks appeared).

For many BPD sufferers there is a very deep abandonment wound, and my ex was no different. Her father abandoned her when she was young, and her mother constantly invalidated her emotions about it (saying things like "It's fine!" or "we are better off without him!").

I do believe that their mirroring, and other subconscious manipulation tactics are meant to get you to love them unconditionally. As I've said before in other posts, through trial and error they have intuitively determined the most effective behaviors to win unconditional love from the people they adore - This isn't conscious, but it is learned through reward and punishment (as we know, they feel both of these quite intensely, so it would make sense that they would become so fine-tuned).

The result of this is to get people addicted to seeing them through their eyes because they love you SO MUCH MORE than you love yourself. So when their view of you changes and shifts, so does yours. This makes you entirely dependent on them.

However, I do think that they feel real love. I just don't believe that it is tenable for them because of their intense fears of losing it. They *NEED* control. And the dynamic they experienced as a child is that of being in the position of the abandoned. They experienced the pain of being left, ignored, rejected, and discarded at a time when they were forming a subconscious picture of what relationships 'are'.

Similar to how people who are abused as children will often enact abuse as adults, people who experience rejection will enact rejection. This is their way of reclaiming power - They see all relationships through the lens of this dynamic of either being the abandoned, or the one who abandons.

As a result, they simply can't exist in a healthy relationship without serious therapeutic help and self-awareness. Once they fall in love with someone the timer is set and they will slowly be consumed with fear that they will become that child again. Everything they do to take back power is a projection of how they felt as a child. For example, during the discard they might do everything in their power to make you feel like you are worthless and not good enough for them - They are trying to make *you* shoulder their childhood pain so that they can be the person who has the power in their childhood dynamic. In a way, they are rewriting history.

They want you to chase them, and they tell themselves it's so that they can feel worthy - But once they have the power, they don't want to give it up -- And they wont. They are just rationalizing their abusive behavior because to them this unconscious dynamic playing out is more important than *anything*, including all the values they've learned throughout their adult lives.

I choose to believe that the love was real. I choose to see the ways she quietly fought a battle with herself for two years because she knew the force inside her wasn't acting on reason. And I choose to remain no contact, because even though I know what motivated her behavior I also know that there is no way to change it. I've been down this road before.

For those of you who are struggling with the same thing, don't let the belief in the love that existed cloud your judgment - These are very hurt people. They might try and win you back when they are not in the position of 'power'. They may see things quite clearly, then, as a weak child who has been denied their protector and guardian. They may even claim to be willing to do the work. But if you go back, the timer will start again.

What you should take from this is knowledge that they saw your worth. It was real. If it wasn't real love to them then they wouldn't have sought to destroy and abandon you.

[zippers_the_goat]

I feel that a lot of the views on this board can be quite myopic. For those of use who are stuck in the cycle of attracting or being attracted to emotionally unavailable partners, hearing that the love we felt was never 'real' almost perpetuates the self-view that the BPD partner tries to leave us with post-discard (by rewriting the relationship history as us never having been worthy of their real 'love').

I have been searching a lot in my attempt to make sense of my previous relationship without capitulating to her erasure of our positive shared experiences. My ex was quiet BPD, and seemingly she was working very hard until the end to keep from being openly abusive (until the end, when the dam started to crack and leaks appeared).

For many BPD sufferers there is a very deep abandonment wound, and my ex was no different. Her father abandoned her when she was young, and her mother constantly invalidated her emotions about it (saying things like "It's fine!" or "we are better off without him!").

I do believe that their mirroring, and other subconscious manipulation tactics are meant to get you to love them unconditionally. As I've said before in other posts, through trial and error they have intuitively determined the most effective behaviors to win unconditional love from the people they adore - This isn't conscious, but it is learned through reward and punishment (as we know, they feel both of these quite intensely, so it would make sense that they would become so fine-tuned).

The result of this is to get people addicted to seeing them through their eyes because they love you SO MUCH MORE than you love yourself. So when their view of you changes and shifts, so does yours. This makes you entirely dependent on them.

However, I do think that they feel real love. I just don't believe that it is tenable for them because of their intense fears of losing it. They *NEED* control. And the dynamic they experienced as a child is that of being in the position of the abandoned. They experienced the pain of being left, ignored, rejected, and discarded at a time when they were forming a subconscious picture of what relationships 'are'.

Similar to how people who are abused as children will often enact abuse as adults, people who experience rejection will enact rejection. This is their way of reclaiming power - They see all relationships through the lens of this dynamic of either being the abandoned, or the one who abandons.

As a result, they simply can't exist in a healthy relationship without serious therapeutic help and self-awareness. Once they fall in love with someone the timer is set and they will slowly be consumed with fear that they will become that child again. Everything they do to take back power is a projection of how they felt as a child. For example, during the discard they might do everything in their power to make you feel like you are worthless and not good enough for them - They are trying to make *you* shoulder their childhood pain so that they can be the person who has the power in their childhood dynamic. In a way, they are rewriting history.

They want you to chase them, and they tell themselves it's so that they can feel worthy - But once they have the power, they don't want to give it up -- And they wont. They are just rationalizing their abusive behavior because to them this unconscious dynamic playing out is more important than *anything*, including all the values they've learned throughout their adult lives.

I choose to believe that the love was real. I choose to see the ways she quietly fought a battle with herself for two years because she knew the force inside her wasn't acting on reason. And I choose to remain no contact, because even though I know what motivated her behavior I also know that there is no way to change it. I've been down this road before.

For those of you who are struggling with the same thing, don't let the belief in the love that existed cloud your judgment - These are very hurt people. They might try and win you back when they are not in the position of 'power'. They may see things quite clearly, then, as a weak child who has been denied their protector and guardian. They may even claim to be willing to do the work. But if you go back, the timer will start again.

What you should take from this is knowledge that they saw your worth. It was real. If it wasn't real love to them then they wouldn't have sought to destroy and abandon you.

[Augustine]

To play the devil’s advocate for a moment, it cannot be love, as the borderline’s is transitory.

As confirmation, none of the diagnostic criteria align with Sternberg’s Triangular Theory.

The struggle is ours, as they were either born with the disorder, or a susceptibility for the disorder, and lack sufficient insight to be objective. 

[EyesUp]

The struggle is ours, as they were either born with the disorder, or a susceptibility for the disorder, and lack sufficient insight to be objective. 

Agree that the struggle is ours, but the literature I've read typically indicates unresolved traumatic experiences, often during formative periods - this is a nurture, not nature argument.

Yes, people are frequently born into multi-generational trauma situations, but we will still observe a relatively small percentage of the population meet the diagnostic criteria for all b-cluster PDs. 

I don't mean to quibble, however I think it may be helpful to focus on the diagnostic criteria when looking carefully at individuals and whatever experiences or circumstances may have led to maladaptive behaviors. If we leave it at "born with it" then we don't have much to work with. 

[once removed]

hearing that the love we felt was never 'real'

no one can tell you what you felt wasnt real. well, i suppose they can, if youre in earshot, but they cant make it so.

i personally dont see where its helpful for healing for one to tell themselves that, either.

nor do i see where its helpful for healing to say that about our exes.

i certainly see where its helpful to see that our relationships had strong fantasy elements. to see that the foundation they were built on was shaky. to see that our partners, and/or our relationships, werent necessarily exactly what we thought they were. to also see that what any of that means has different implications for everyone.

I do believe that their mirroring, and other subconscious manipulation tactics are meant to get you to love them unconditionally.

i think that the term "mirroring" tends to trip people up. like its something sneaky. and that might lead a person to believe that our partners "faked" who they were, or that they werent "real". and its often true that our partners may have misrepresented parts themselves, but we all do this; we all put our best foot forward, and veil parts of ourselves in new relationships. people with bpd, for reasons having to do with bpd, just take it to an extreme.

mirroring is essential for bonding. the earliest development of our sense of selves depends on it. it is a bonding tactic. it is something that every one of us does. every time you laugh at someones joke, every time you actively show someone youre listening to them, every time you validate someones story here or share your own, you are mirroring them. it is no more or less "real" when someone with bpd traits does it, but it is again, for reasons having to do with bpd, something that people with bpd traits do to a pathological degree.

some people have a pathological need to mirror.

some people have a pathological need to be mirrored.

The result of this is to get people addicted to seeing them through their eyes because they love you SO MUCH MORE than you love yourself. So when their view of you changes and shifts, so does yours. This makes you entirely dependent on them.

but what mirroring doesnt, is do any of these things to us any more than a bottle of alcohol can do them to us. if a person can do this to us, then there is nothing to prevent it from happening again.

adulation can be intoxicating, and cross words from a loved one can cut deep, but we arent slaves to either one.

However, I do think that they feel real love. I just don't believe that it is tenable for them because of their intense fears of losing it.
...
As a result, they simply can't exist in a healthy relationship without serious therapeutic help and self-awareness

to put things in perspective, every single one, of every single persons relationship will fail/have failed, except for that final one (assuming they find it).

how many people walking around are beacons of self awareness, baggage free, and in happy, healthy, thriving relationships? i dont know the answer to that question, but most marriages still end in divorce.

in discussions ive read here, as well as literature, one frequent comparison for the love of someone with bpd is to that of a toddler, or it might be referred to as "childlike", or it might be called "immature".

well, ive never seen someone tell a mother that their toddler doesnt really love her because hes not mature enough to love yet.

love, and the capacity to love, are things within us all, that mature, grow, evolve. in relationships that get to such a point, you will love them more in the future than you did when you met them. your love for them will grow over time. and if the relationship ends, ideally, you will take from that relationship, into the next one, an even more mature, more highly evolved idea of love, and a greater capacity to give and receive.

for some people, that may mean a lower ceiling than others. but pathologically speaking? borderlines give everything theyve got.