II. Giving her space (Christian discussion)

[Fian]

I can't help but look at your situation and think of mine.  We have a lot of similarities.  I am from the US, and my wife is from Mexico.  She was already a student in the US, though.  We had a long distance relationship.  We got married and my wife also kept one foot out the door.  She was also a homemaker, and during the first 10+ years of marriage she was often disappointed with me.  She would often misread my actions, and assign the worst possible motivation to them.  Part of it was probably cultural, part of it is probably the differences between how men and women think, and part of it (that we discovered later) was that I am autistic.  She would compare my actions to that of her prior boyfriends.  We got to a point in our relationship where I suspected that she might have BPD (hence the reason why I joined this forum), but now I am convinced that she does not.  Our relationship became one where the goal was to avoid fighting.  Eventually a fight would happen, and for the next 3 days she would be cool to me.  Then we would try again.  I was in my 40s and hoping that God would take me in my 50s, and did not take care of my health.

On a positive note, our relationship is very good now.  To be honest, I don't think I changed much of what I was doing.  She drastically changed her approach to me.  When I was diagnosed as autistic, she accepted me for who I am.  She stopped expecting me to be the ideal, and instead appreciated what I did do for her.  She hasn't told me, but I think she made a resolution to not criticize me, something that she usually holds to now.  She has become concerned about my health as she doesn't want to lose me and be alone.  She often tells me how much she appreciates having me as her husband.

Some nuggets of wisdom for your marriage.  I quoted you earlier, the first half 1 Peter 3:7.  Let me quote you the first half now, "You husbands likewise, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with a weaker vessel since she is a woman."  Your wife is not as strong as you are.  She can't handle the amount of conflict and stress that you can.  While a man is motivated by a code of honor and keeping his word, a woman is motivated by emotion.

To state the above in a different way, it is easy to condemn your spouse and say, "I don't do this bad behavior; neither should she."  However, you also have failures that she does not.  If she only had bad behaviors that you also had, then she would be better than you, since you have bad behaviors she does not.  Wisdom is understanding that your bad behaviors are different than hers, and if she has to accept your bad behaviors, you have to accept hers as well.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Fian]

On the topic of opposite sex relationships after marriage, it can be a tricky subject.  My wife had some jealousy issues towards me.  I have never been that concerned about my wife's online friends.  At first I dug my heels in, and insisted on keeping some platonic female friendships with coworkers.  My wife didn't like it, but opted to pray instead.  I met a female coworker for lunch, and it just felt weird after marriage, and I never did it again.  Prayer worked.

Instead she's opted to repeat her malicious self sabotaging behaviour of discarding and will most likely repeat the cycle with another if she does end up divorcing me. She's taken no accountability or responsibility for her own behaviour.

The point of me summarizing things from her perspective was to help you have more compassion for her.  The issue for her is not a lack of devotion to her marriage vow or a lack of love for you; the issue is that she emotionally reached the end of her rope.  She had to do something to reduce her stress.  Managing her stress, imo, is the key to having a healthy relationship with her.

[understandBPD]

The issue for her is not a lack of devotion to her marriage vow or a lack of love for you; the issue is that she emotionally reached the end of her rope.  She had to do something to reduce her stress.  Managing her stress, imo, is the key to having a healthy relationship with her.

This is where the issue is she was always 50/50 in the marriage so it is a devotion and commitment issue as well as a vowel issue she's literally abandoned her marriage cut contact with me gone back on her word about divorce broken her promises she made to me.

I can't change or manage anything to do with her stress if i am unable to have a healthy mature conversation with her. If she can't even sit down with me and talk and the 1 time i did see her she asked why i was here and went into her room and refused to speak to me what hope do i have of repairing anything.

This is the obstacle i am facing right now i have a run away wife who's seemingly painted me black discarded me has no empathy or emotions towards me whatsoever has blocked and refuses to communicate on any level.

Explain to me where this leaves me in trying to improve our situation regardless of my views or how flexible i am willing to be lets say hypothetically i said yes ill accept full blame its all my fault im a failure of husband etc my wife is an amazing woman and she's flawless never put a foot wrong and ill give in and submit and do anything she asks of me.

Ok now what ? she still isn't going to speak to me or reply so how does that help me exactly ?

[Fian]

Next steps?  We already discussed that.  You are going to be mostly no contact and then ask her father to arrange a 30 minute low stress conversation with her.

[Fian]

her birthday is coming up end of september i was planning to send her a few books i was wondering what your opinion might be.
2 of the books are traditional cook books 1 focuses on adult cooking the other focuses on meals and nutrition for babies/children
1 is called the Excellent Wife: A Biblical Perspective
1 is called The High-Conflict Couple: A Dialectical Behavior Therapy Guide to Finding Peace, Intimacy, and Validation

If I understand correctly, your plan is to send a gift for her birthday, and then ask her father to arrange a phone conversation with her.  If the goal is to have a low stress, no fight phone conversation, the last 2 books on the list are counter-productive.  In regards to the cookbooks, does she like cooking and view it as a hobby?  How do you expect her to receive cook books from you?

[understandBPD]

If I understand correctly, your plan is to send a gift for her birthday, and then ask her father to arrange a phone conversation with her.  If the goal is to have a low stress, no fight phone conversation, the last 2 books on the list are counter-productive.  In regards to the cookbooks, does she like cooking and view it as a hobby?  How do you expect her to receive cook books from you?

I've already sent the books so can't do much about that now. I'll wait to speak with her father and see how it goes.

[Skip]

I would wait a few months (i.e., December) before contacting them again.

I don't know if its insecurity but when i read things like this i just think in a few months she's going to completely forget about me and her marriage and move on and i already feel like she's just waiting for that 12 month separation period to start divorce but again it's my insecurity not what she's been saying.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. (1 Corinthians 13:11)

Being a man in a relationship is not about control and obedience or elevating yourself by seeing your partner as inferior. It's about confidence, strength, patience, benevolence, wisdom, and grace.

You need to be a strong, man, a patient man, and a confident man. No women is attracted to someone who is appears broken, needy, controlling, desperate.

What would a a strong, patient, and a confident man do here?

Accept that the marriage problems have been years in the making and there is uncertainty in what lies next. There is. There are always uncertainties we must face - in love, in health, in wealth.

But there is no uncertainty that this struggle is calling on you to rise up and face it with confidence, strength, patience, benevolence, wisdom, and grace.

Put the old ways behind you.

[Fian]

I would recommend focusing on the following 3 topics before your phone conversation with her.
1.  Continued discussion on whether your views on husband leadership was an issue in your relationship with her.  Since she isn't talking we need to figure out what areas of your behavior were the drivers of her decision to leave.
2.  Your anger towards her.  I get it.  The 2 of you became one flesh, and then she ripped out your heart when she left.  You have a lot of reasons to be angry, but when it comes to reconciliation, your anger is going to get in the way.
3.  Understanding JADE and how to avoid it.  Since the goal is a low conflict first meeting with her, and she might blame you in this first meeting, avoiding JADE is important to keep the conflict in the conversation low.

Others on this board are much better qualified than I to address items 2 and 3.

[understandBPD]

Continued discussion on whether your views on husband leadership was an issue in your relationship with her.

From her perspective yes they would be. From a realistic & logical perspective not so much.

we need to figure out what areas of your behavior were the drivers of her decision to leave.

Pride , Stubborness , the ability to win arguements , depression , not seeing eye to eye on opposite sex friends (after marriage) but she was in agreement before marriage , not giving her enough attention because i was struggling myself

Those would be some of the obvious ones im aware of after a lot of reflection and i have / want to change all of them except the opposite sex friends thing its a non negotionable for me.

I think more of the reason of her leaving really has to do with her and her past history. If she was like this before she met me and after and if she changed right after marriage (7 or so days into being married) she was already fighting with me and saying shes going home and her father told her she can't do that and weeks later she apologized and said she would never do something like that again. Kind of implies a lot of the issue was with her and i've already accepted and taken responsibility for my issues and apologized for them and acknowledged them and worked to correct a lot of them.

You have a lot of reasons to be angry, but when it comes to reconciliation, your anger is going to get in the way.

I wouldn't call it anger im not angry at her im disappointed , frustrated and irritated and its not because she went back to her parents as i said i was okay with that and i supported it as i believed it was a good idea to give us some breathing room. The issues i have are with her childish behaviour , refusal to communicate and the way she tried to manipulate me into giving her control and then blocking me.

I will/have forgiven her for everything she's done up to now and as previously mentioned the 1 thing i won't forgive under any circumstance is unfaithfulness (being intimate sexually with someone else).

Understanding JADE and how to avoid it.  Since the goal is a low conflict first meeting with her, and she might blame you in this first meeting, avoiding JADE is important to keep the conflict in the conversation low.

Will read about JADE but i do not expect for her father to be of any use when i contact him nor do i forsee my wife being reasonable and communicating with me either directly or indirectly i mean the reason im on a BPD forum is that her behaviour makes no sense so expecting her to be reasonable or somehow magically paint me white again seems far fetched perhaps im wrong.

It's very hard for me to maintain hope and continue when i haven't made any progress or been given any kind of motivation all that's keeping me going is God and prayer and wanting to honor my commitment i made to  her and to God.

[Fian]

"Continued discussion on whether your views on husband leadership was an issue in your relationship with her."

From her perspective yes they would be.

Good, I am glad that we can agree on this.  Whether you are in the wrong is a separate discussion.

I wouldn't call it anger im not angry at her im disappointed , frustrated and irritated

Which ever emotion you want to call it, it comes through in what you write.  Being able to get past those emotions is important in restoring the relationship.

Will read about JADE but i do not expect for her father to be of any use when i contact him nor do i forsee my wife being reasonable and communicating with me either directly or indirectly i mean the reason im on a BPD forum is that her behaviour makes no sense so expecting her to be reasonable or somehow magically paint me white again seems far fetched perhaps im wrong.

It's very hard for me to maintain hope and continue when i haven't made any progress or been given any kind of motivation all that's keeping me going is God and prayer and wanting to honor my commitment i made to  her and to God.

Her behavior doesn't make any sense?  I wrote a series of lengthy posts explaining how her behavior does make sense.  As for lacking hope, I understand that feeling, and experienced it at times in my relationship.  In my case, I had a high degree of confidence that God chose her to be my wife (and still do).  I don't know if you have that confidence or not.  Regardless, I do agree to holding to God, and praying to the one who can even raise the dead, and honoring your commitment are good things to be doing.  It feels insane to be doing the same things and expecting different results, but I did in my marriage, and did see great results in the end.  I can't promise that your experience will be the same as mine, but there is reason to hope.

[understandBPD]

I had a high degree of confidence that God chose her to be my wife (and still do).  I don't know if you have that confidence or not.

I honestly believe God had made her to match me perfectly and still believe that we will end up together its just painful going through all of this. I am hoping things get a little more easier or there's at least some form of hope even if its something small like a thank you for her birthday card or something.

It's stressful for me because i've gone 6 months and don't really know what she's thinking or where she's at what her plan is. It's all unknown to me i don't know if she's trying to move on or if she's going to stay in the marriage and just be separated the unknown makes it more difficult.

[Notwendy]

Not having any communication does make it difficult to know what someone is thinking.

I think there's good advice here already and I don't have any to add. I did want to clarify the discussion on continuing to send money as I did participate in that. Whenever we are trying to make the best decision we can- tuning in to our own values often helps.

The idea of not sending it is based on feelings of anger, resentment- but even so, you want to feel you gave the relationship the best possible chance. I think you have come up with your own best answer based on your values. Your wish is that she will continue the marriage but it's not possible to know what she decides. You don't want to feel that discontinuing the money contributed to a decision to not continue the relationship.  I agree with the others that continuing to send the money to her is the better decision-for now. In addition, they may be needing it for something and you don't want to cause harm if you discontinue it.

[Skip]

"Continued discussion on whether your views on husband leadership was an issue in your relationship with her. ~ Fian"

It's stressful for me because i've gone 6 months and don't really know what she's thinking or where she's at what her plan is.

I agree with Notwendy. This is a challenging time and it is most difficult to not know what she is thinking. I know that hurts.

Let's break down what is happening. Why do people stonewall? Why do people become passive-aggressive?

Is it to punish you?  No. Not likely, based on what you are telling us. It's more often a defense mechanism. It often happens in an environment where the direct expression of disagreement is discouraged (real or perceived). When one feels that they cannot express their opinions and emotions openly, or that it is futile to do so, or they will be met with an overwhelming counter response, they eventually shut down or use indirect methods of expression.

Is this a dynamic that has developed in your marriage?

It may not be obvious to you, but there was a significant power differential in this relationship. You had the money, you are older, you are bigger and stronger, you owned everything; she was isolated in your country/culture and entirely dependent on you for everything, including food and shelter. And you both prescribed to an unequal relationship model where the power dynamic was shifted even more in your favor.

It became too much and she ran home to a more nurturing environment. It's one thing to read these things in a book, and its another to live it. Her parting message could be interpreted as this is not working for me, I need a life with more independence.

.	She said: I need to basically change my entire life I need to get a good job with good money I need to go to therapy for minimum 1 year I need to move out rent my own place alone for the forseeable future

To be fair, this arrangement would be hard on any woman. It would be harder on a very young women. It would be harder, still, on a woman with BPD traits because shame and low self-worth are inherent in their personality. No blame here; on you or on her. You were doing what you thought was best and I suspect she was, too.

I know it's excruciating to think that you may have inadvertently contributed to the very thing that is breaking your heart. We all get that. This is a deeply painful realization that many members ultimately experience. If you read on the parenting board, for example, the number one question parents have is "Did I do this to my baby". And the answer is "you contributed to it. You didn't (couldn't) realize that you had a special needs child. You will now need to learn what those needs are. You can only change going forward. You can't go back".

Does this seem like a realistic assessment of why she has cut off communications?

I would wait a few months (i.e., December) before contacting them again. I also would not send flowers or a birthday email. The books, a card, and the letter are enough.

Here is the dilemma I think you face in turning this around and why I would lay low for a few months. You already declared that you had changed. I think you did change some things, but you haven't changed the most significant issue of all, your living interpretation of Ephesians 5:22-25 (your relationship model). This theme has been a constant in six months of weekly and biweekly unanswered communications, including the birthday gift (The Excellent Wife book) currently en route to her for her birthday at the end of the month.

You can't just say, never mind, I've changed since I mailed you the book  . It's not true and it's not believable.

The first step is to challenge yourself on whether your beliefs and the mentors you choose have a complete understanding of God's word. The Bible is complicated and it is easy to take things out of context. If you genuinely believe that context is lacking (or may be lacking), you need to expand your horizons with different spiritual mentors. There are christian counselors and seminary colleges with night classes that can help you examine your beliefs. There are bible studies in local churches.

Are you genuinely motivated to do a deep dive like this? It's a big decision.

Before you can proclaim "change" in your email, real transformation has to happen in your heart and for your heart.

This is a very high bar.

As painful as this has been, could it be that the Holy Spirit is guiding you to make this transformation?

[Cat Familiar]

I want to jump in this discussion with some ideas that I haven’t seen fully explored. First, women in their early twenties are very changeable. They are not fully formed adults yet. Research shows that men’s brains don’t completely mature until age 25, and though there is speculation that women’s brains mature some years earlier, we are all individuals.

Anecdotally, I’ve seen lots of young women in their 20s make huge changes in their lives, just as a result of maturing. I include myself.

In addition, she is from a foreign country that you don’t specify, and perhaps what she has experienced in the presumably more cosmopolitan country where you live has given her food for thought. Perhaps she is reevaluating some of her previous ideas about what a relationship is, given that she has experienced cultural differences she might otherwise have not known about nor understood.

You say that, against your wishes, she sought out a job in your country. Certainly that would have exposed her to some different ideals and values that she may not have previously considered.

You seem intent upon holding her to the premarital agreement of the type of marriage that you so vehemently want. Now that she has lived with you for a while, and understands from experience what it is you require, perhaps she’s not as interested in complying with your ideal of what a marriage should be.

That you have sent her books on being the kind of wife you want, yet at the same time, telling her you are a *changed man*, seems to indicate the falsity of that claim.

If you truly want to retain the marriage, the best step would be to quit demanding what you want and find out what she wants.

[understandBPD]

Does this seem like a realistic assessment of why she has cut off communications?

Yes she would say that its hard to communicate with me and say i gaslight her i also cut her off a lot of the time and definetly invalidated her feelings a lot as well. When she would say how she feels i would usually respond with why those feelings made no sense or with a logical (almost lawyer like response) and always wanting to fix things not listen.

I've identified a lot of these issues and a lot of it i just didn't even know about it wasn't something i was intentionally doing to hurt her it was just a lack of emotional intillegence to an extent which is why i feel a lot more confident now after learning.

Here is the dilemma I think you face in turning this around and why I would lay low for a few months.

I feel a constant pressure of a clock ticking down to reach that full 12 month seperation period until she can divorce me. Whether that's actually what she is planning to do or just insecurity combined with the unknown thinking and if she's moving on or upholding her faithfulness its extremely difficult to imagine just leaving the situation for months. I will do what i can to limit contact as much as possible and go with what we've agreed on the previous posts.

Are you genuinely motivated to do a deep dive like this? It's a big decision.

I am willing to compromise to an extent but not overhaul my entire belief/views on God and marriage to suit someone with a personality disorder that isn't upholding her end of the commitment and the way i view it is like if you allow a woman to lead you down a path that contradicts what God has instructed then your being lead to destruction.

As painful as this has been, could it be that the Holy Spirit is guiding you to make this transformation?

I don't think it "could be" i am 100% certain and strongly believe that this separation had to happen for me to firstly get out of my depressive phase which it did and make some significant changes in my life it's unforunate that it took her leaving for it to happen but i am glad. Because if it didn't happen we would of continued in a cycle of fighting and things would of been so bad it would of been unsavable afterwards that was initially the idea behind me agreeing for her to go back to her parents for 2-3 months.

I also strongly believe God gives us tribulations and trials to make us better e.g the story of Job so i am not afraid of pain or suffering and embrace it and learn from it and it strengthens my faith in God i have never thought to myself why has God done this to me and blamed God i always look for the positive and lessons within my suffering.

In addition, she is from a foreign country that you don’t specify

Tried to leave some details out intentionally just to be safe but she's from a middle eastern country (islamic) but from a christian family.

You say that, against your wishes, she sought out a job in your country. Certainly that would have exposed her to some different ideals and values that she may not have previously considered.

I told her it was a bad idea and that i didn't support it but i said if she chose to she could because i allowed her free choice. She liked the job itself because it was part of what she was interested in but as i expected she got a lot of cultural shocks she hated the travelling back and forth and she was absolutely exhausted every day which contributed to her decline in mood and behaviour even further and its also when she started eating less healthy and not attending the gym more so overall it was a bad decision.

That you have sent her books on being the kind of wife you want, yet at the same time, telling her you are a *changed man*, seems to indicate the falsity of that claim.

We both entered into a unbreakable agreement between each other and God that we spent years discussing and agreeing to. I sent her books from people she would send me things about e.g the transformed wife (her ideas not mine) i sent her another book that is a couples book for DBT and BPD and a combo book for husband and wife (Explary husband for me) and (The excellent wife for her) so we can both learn and be guided on what we agreed on.

If you truly want to retain the marriage, the best step would be to quit demanding what you want and find out what she wants.

Without sounding rude i don't really like your tone and the way you speak and i also get red flag feminist vibes from specific words you use and im not really interested in your input based on that. If i wanted to marry a woman who has a rebellious and evil nature and issues with submission and feminist views i would of married 1 but i opted to remain single to avoid that misery the woman i married was the completely opposite of all of that.

I do want my marriage to work but a marriage isn't about what she wants we married each other because we love each other and were in absolute agreement on our beliefs and what we wanted from a life and marriage. You can't just abandon all of that run home to dad and stonewall someone until you get your way that's childish and ridiculous and nobody should treat there partner this way let alone show such dishonor for there vowels they made to each other and God.

[Cat Familiar]

Yes she would say that it’s hard to communicate with me and say i gaslight her i also cut her off a lot of the time and definetly invalidated her feelings a lot as well. When she would say how she feels i would usually respond with why those feelings made no sense or with a logical (almost lawyer like response) and always wanting to fix things not listen.

It’s good that you are identifying these issues. Also it would be good to communicate your different understanding about this, once the doors of communication reopen.

I've identified a lot of these issues and a lot of it i just didn't even know about it wasn't something i was intentionally doing to hurt her it was just a lack of emotional intillegence to an extent which is why i feel a lot more confident now after learning.

So many of us are in the same boat. We didn’t realize the impact of our behavior and we had no ill intentions whatsoever.

I feel a constant pressure of a clock ticking down to reach that full 12 month seperation period until she can divorce me. Whether that's actually what she is planning to do or just insecurity combined with the unknown thinking and if she's moving on or upholding her faithfulness its extremely difficult to imagine just leaving the situation for months. I will do what i can to limit contact as much as possible and go with what we've agreed on the previous posts.

It makes sense that you feel the time pressure—anyone would. And how frustrating it is that you are unable to communicate with her to understand what is going on.

Without sounding rude i don't really like your tone and the way you speak and i also get red flag feminist vibes from specific words you use and im not really interested in your input based on that.

That’s fine—I know I can come across as abrasive at times. Interesting that based upon that, you choose to disregard anything I could contribute to the discussion.

If i wanted to marry a woman who has a rebellious and evil nature and issues with submission and feminist views i would of married 1 but i opted to remain single to avoid that misery the woman i married was the completely opposite of all of that.

Yet somehow you have married a woman with a rebellious nature. Do you see any value in perhaps understanding why that may have occurred?

I do want my marriage to work but a marriage isn't about what she wants

That’s an interesting outlook

we married each other because we love each other and were in absolute agreement on our beliefs and what we wanted from a life and marriage. You can't just abandon all of that run home to dad and stonewall someone until you get your way that's childish and ridiculous and nobody should treat there partner this way let alone show such dishonor for there vowels they made to each other and God.

And yet she won’t take your calls.

[understandBPD]

That’s fine—I know I can come across as abrasive at times. Interesting that based upon that, you choose to disregard anything I could contribute to the discussion.

I don't disregard anyones contributions i just think we may have very different views on marriage and a womans role based on your comments. So rather than argue back and forth about who's right and wrong it's easier to just be upfront. You're entitled to your beliefs as am i and my wife and i shared the same views upon meeting and throughout the entire relationship.

Yet somehow you have married a woman with a rebellious nature. Do you see any value in perhaps understanding why that may have occurred?

Assuming she has BPD she most likely idealized me after she discarded the last person she used. She would of been attracted to me because i have very strong views on submission and she liked it and felt safe. Her having issues and trouble childhood and me having what im starting to think is co-dependancy wanted to be the saviour of her and fix everything. All i've wanted in my life was someone who could match my loyalty and commitment and i believed she could and that marriage is a commitment until death that's exactly what we both understood and went into.

With that mindset you are motivated to love each other unconditionally and work through whatever obstacles you face as a team there is no running away or abandoning it and in old times if you did you'd either accept being alone the rest of your life or you'd be put to death if you tried to re marry that is Gods intention that 2 people become 1 flesh and you love your wife/husband as you love your own flesh you can't just split apart just because she goes to a court and someone says ok your now divorced means absolutely nothing in Gods eyes. If she divorces me legally and re marries she's still comitting adultery and sin and will be punished accordingly.

I plan to uphold my vowels and commitment and try to love my wife as best as i can in this situation and part of that love is trying to help her see her sinful and rebellious behaviour and how destructive it trully is i mean after all she is literally carrying out the actions of the women she despised since i met her and i believe that carries a heavy burden on her especially when she claimed to not believe in divorce and that its ridiculous that women divorce over pretty much anything. (this is our situation)

That’s an interesting outlook

I am guessing you aren't religious based on your comments perhaps im wrong but God's intention for marriage is for 2 people to become 1 and to live there lives serving God. God created a woman to be the helpmeet to man that is her God intended purpose is to help her husband love him care for him and do so in a submissive way with a meek and quiet spirit.

Naturally any good God fearing man who has a woman who isn't rebellious or fights for power will want to serve his wife and do anything for her this is my belief the reason we are having so many issues is she wants to fight for control and be disobedient and i naturally will not let that happen so now we are in a situation where she's become destructive and will destroy her life and mine because she can't get the control she wants. If she wanted control or didn't like the idea of submission and Gods intention then she should of thought about that before making such a serious commitment.

All of our relationship issues have stemmed from her struggling with submission and rebellion something she has openly admitted and even said to some extent there's a "demon" she is battling to do the right thing. The answer to this isn't giving in to her or letting her get full control the answer is her learning to submit humbly and embracing Gods word and for me to educate myself and learn to become a better husband and spiritually lead and work on improving my communication and emotional intelligence to be better equipped to help her and make her feel safe.

And yet she won’t take your calls.

That's ok its a reflection of her emotional immaturity not only is she self sabotaging and destroying her marriage and life but she's wasting her most important years of her life and going down a path of destruction and divorce. I wouldn't consider that something to be proud of and if she put the effort she has into stonewalling me into her marriage she would be in a much better place. (The most ironic thing is 99% of our issues in our marriage could be resolved by sitting down for a hour or so and communicating them clearly.)

[Cat Familiar]

I don't disregard anyones contributions i just think we may have very different views on marriage and a womans role based on your comments. So rather than argue back and forth about who's right and wrong it's easier to just be upfront. You're entitled to your beliefs as am i and my wife and i shared the same views upon meeting and throughout the entire relationship.

I agree. I wouldn’t dream of arguing with you about your beliefs. Rather my intent is to explore what happened in that your wife is now far away and is refusing to communicate with you.

Assuming she has BPD she most likely idealized me after she discarded the last person she used. She would of been attracted to me because i have very strong views on submission and she liked it and felt safe. Her having issues and trouble childhood and me having what im starting to think is co-dependancy wanted to be the saviour of her and fix everything. All i've wanted in my life was someone who could match my loyalty and commitment and i believed she could and that marriage is a commitment until death that's exactly what we both understood and went into.

She agreed to that and now she is in violation of her agreement. (This is typical BPD, though we can’t know for certain if she has that, or if this is merely a change of heart.)

With that mindset you are motivated to love each other unconditionally and work through whatever obstacles you face as a team there is no running away or abandoning it and in old times if you did you'd either accept being alone the rest of your life or you'd be put to death if you tried to re marry that is Gods intention that 2 people become 1 flesh and you love your wife/husband as you love your own flesh you can't just split apart just because she goes to a court and someone says ok your now divorced means absolutely nothing in Gods eyes. If she divorces me legally and re marries she's still comitting adultery and sin and will be punished accordingly.

My first point centers around the age she was when you first became involved with her. In my country, it is illegal for minors to enter into a contract because they don’t have the mental capacity to enter into a binding legal agreement. I’m not saying she was a minor when she married you, but if she came from a very conservative religious family (due to limited exposure which could have slowed down the process of developing her own autonomy and sense of self—i.e. maturity), and/or she has BPD, she may have made a commitment without having the emotional maturity to be able to honor it.

That in your mind, there is no escape clause for having made a choice to marry that she might later regret, puts you in a situation where she could perceive you as predatory and punitive. (I’m not saying you are, but I’m trying to imagine how someone, who fled from a family where there was stated abuse, and has now fled from a marriage to return to that family—might be thinking.)

I plan to uphold my vowels and commitment and try to love my wife as best as i can in this situation and part of that love is trying to help her see her sinful and rebellious behaviour and how destructive it trully is i mean after all she is literally carrying out the actions of the women she despised since i met her and i believe that carries a heavy burden on her especially when she claimed to not believe in divorce and that its ridiculous that women divorce over pretty much anything. (this is our situation)

Again, this puts you in a position where you are telling her that she is sinful, her behavior is destructive, and she’s a hypocrite since she once condemned that very behavior in other women. Can you see how this might undermine your intentions of reopening dialog with her? Really, who wants to hear that they are *bad* from someone who says that they love them? Even emotionally healthy people would be disinclined to return to that. Add BPD to the mix, and it becomes explosive. People with BPD hate being told they are bad, as they already feel so much self loathing.

I am guessing you aren't religious based on your comments

My beliefs play no part in this. I’m merely looking at your dynamic from the point of view of trying to imagine how your communication might land with a woman who is possibly someone with BPD.

my belief the reason we are having so many issues is she wants to fight for control and be disobedient and i naturally will not let that happen so now we are in a situation where she's become destructive and will destroy her life and mine because she can't get the control she wants. If she wanted control or didn't like the idea of submission and Gods intention then she should have thought about that before making such a serious commitment.

Again, think about that she might have made the commitment without having the maturity to fully understand what she was committing to. Also that she was exposed to a more cosmopolitan society than she had been accustomed to—that can cause reevaluation of one’s beliefs, especially in such a young person.

All of our relationship issues have stemmed from her struggling with submission and rebellion something she has openly admitted and even said to some extent there's a "demon" she is battling to do the right thing. The answer to this isn't giving in to her or letting her get full control the answer is her learning to submit humbly and embracing Gods word and for me to educate myself and learn to become a better husband and spiritually lead and work on improving my communication and emotional intelligence to be better equipped to help her and make her feel safe.

The first part of your answer (her learning to submit) is totally out of your control. You cannot make her do something/learn something/submit if she’s not willing to do so. And apparently she isn’t—that’s why she is with her family rather than you. The second point (you improving yourself) is within your power and it appears that you are learning a lot.

That's ok its a reflection of her emotional immaturity not only is she self sabotaging and destroying her marriage and life but she's wasting her most important years of her life and going down a path of destruction and divorce. I wouldn't consider that something to be proud of and if she put the effort she has into stonewalling me into her marriage she would be in a much better place.

It’s a choice she’s making, and it’s completely out of your control.

(The most ironic thing is 99% of our issues in our marriage could be resolved by sitting down for a hour or so and communicating them clearly.)

A lot of people on this forum seem to think that clear communication is a magic cure-all for issues in their marriage. Perhaps that can be the beginning of a workable solution for partners who are emotionally healthy. Sadly, with people with BPD, communication is only a very first step in making improvements. It’s often a very long road to getting lasting positive change and as the *non* partner, we have to do the lion’s share of the work.

[understandBPD]

I agree. I wouldn’t dream of arguing with you about your beliefs. Rather my intent is to explore what happened in that your wife is now far away and is refusing to communicate with you.

I would appreciate this and consider it helpful especially from a womans perspective.

She agreed to that and now she is in violation of her agreement. (This is typical BPD, though we can’t know for certain if she has that, or if this is merely a change of heart.)

She was usually pretty good at keeping her commitments and promises but wasn't so good with time management . I do think this situation and the thought of divorce is putting a great deal of stress on her and i do not believe it's what she really wants deep down.

I mainly say this because other than the 1 or so times she's mentioned it she has done nothing to move towards that option and in the limited contact ive had she never talked about divorce just asked me to not contact her (i guess you could take that either way and say she is done or she just needs time)

My first point centers around the age she was when you first became involved with her. In my country, it is illegal for minors to enter into a contract because they don’t have the mental capacity to enter into a binding legal agreement. I’m not saying she was a minor when she married you, but if she came from a very conservative religious family (due to limited exposure which could have slowed down the process of developing her own autonomy and sense of self—i.e. maturity), and/or she has BPD, she may have made a commitment without having the emotional maturity to be able to honor it.

She was young but definetly not a minor and she was very mature for her age even to my suprise the maturity level of women in the eastern countries compared to western is very different and i think that's why we were able to get along well.

I do think she didn't fully develop her sense of self and she mentioned 1 time she had taken being a wife as her entire being and she constantly felt like she hasn't achieved anything in life etc (not because of being a wife just in general she felt like she was constantly wasting her life away) in reality she wasn't she was very intelligent and mature for her age she was quite deep and educated in history and philosophy and spoke multiple languages which was pretty impressive for such a young woman.

I tried to encourage her and tell her how amazing she was and she shouldn't worry so much about things but she constantly stressed and wanted a 100 different things in life. I am more relaxed and consider the marriage and starting a family to be the end goal of success and feel very comfortable and content.

I am of the opinion having our first child would of put a lot of that worry and lack of purpose to rest within her. She spoke about having kids as soon as possible the younger the better and wanted many but when she got here she changed her tune and kept stressing about finances and setting up the "perfect" situation to have children. I wanted children straight away but did not pressure her and believed she needed time to adjust to different country / culture and settle in and seeing her already struggling it was a bad idea to get her pregnant as well. Sometimes i think perhaps if i ignored all of that and she was pregnant it would of locked in her commitment to marriage and would of only been a matter of time before those worries she had faded away alternatively could of gone in the opposite direction and been a disaster.

That in your mind, there is no escape clause for having made a choice to marry that she might later regret, puts you in a situation where she could perceive you as predatory and punitive.

She had time to make a decision especially with long distance and i went through her father and spoke direct with him and got his permission so if they believed something was wrong they would of stopped it. It was actually the opposite and they really liked me and didn't make it too difficult for me which was good. I don't see the commitment as a no escape clause i see it as a commitment and loyalty thing if you love someone enough and have saved yourself for marriage then it obviously means a great deal to you. I don't believe any person should enter a marriage thinking of ways out or to feel like there trapped.

She was never stuck here she could go back to her country and i paid for everything i think i actually made her life too easy compared to what she was used of at her parents and perhaps that's my mistake too much freedom and being the nice guy to her wanting to keep her happy backfired.

Assuming she does have BPD isn't 1 of the most common things just running away from problems and painting them black its why partners seem to struggle so much with discard because 1 minute there in love the next the person is a stranger. I don't think justifying her actions as a "Normal" person in this situation makes much sense because i do not believe i am mainly responsible for what she's doing.

Again, think about that she might have made the commitment without having the maturity to fully understand what she was committing to. Also that she was exposed to a more cosmopolitan society than she had been accustomed to—that can cause reevaluation of one’s beliefs, especially in such a young person.

This could be possible some people believe she just used me for a visa and it was her plan / families plan all along i don't believe that personally but i could see how it plays in her favor i don't know if she intends to return to my country in the future or after she divorces but she did tell me previously she didn't like living here and prefered her country.

The first part of your answer (her learning to submit) is totally out of your control. You cannot make her do something/learn something/submit if she’s not willing to do so.

I agree all i can do is guide her and provide the information she has to willingly do the rest and that's basically what i intended with the books from people she introduced me to.

A lot of people on this forum seem to think that clear communication is a magic cure-all for issues in their marriage.

I mainly say this because if you said what's the biggest issue or the deal breaker that we can't seem to resolve there isn't 1 to sum up what happen is she's had a turbulent past came into a marriage with emotional baggage was depressed struggling i was also depressed struggling so neither of us could emotionally support the other properly so we withdrew things went into a cycle of minor fights that slowly escalated over little things.

So thinking back now with the information i have about BPD and emotional intelligence and previously not really connecting the dots that she had some serious issues going on i would be much more empathetic and would of got her professional help. Instead i invalidated her feelings because to me they were ridiculous and she was being dramatic and childish (I actually said these things to her and she hated it and became even worse) then i would continue saying she's proving my point that she's acting like a child.

The sad thing is i didn't realize she had some form of personality disorder and i didn't realize my own mistakes of invalidating someone who is feeling a certain way simply because i couldn't make logical sense of why she felt that way and instead just provided solutions and tried to fix everything. I do regret this part of the marriage because i love her and i don't believe what happen to her as a child growing up is her fault and she deserves to be loved and feel safe and that's what is motivating me to keep holding on and improving myself because i don't want to see her divorced and ruining her life knowing she lost someone who does love her and would do anything for her.

I do trully hope she will slowly soften her heart and give our marriage a real opportunity and we can reconcile and have a stronger marriage.

It’s often a very long road to getting lasting positive change and as the *non* partner, we have to do the lion’s share of the work.

This sums up how i feel because it's always been me holding things together and making it work and chasing her to "fix" it and felt like if i was to just sit back do nothing then it be over and she wouldn't chase me or fix anything and just give up.

I sometimes drink tea sitting in the garden and just ponder is a relationship / marriage really meant to be this stressful and difficult and also taking a look back i've only had 3 serious relationships and all 3 it was always me fighting to keep it which hurts because i thought my wife would be someone who would fight for me too and never give up or abandon me. I told her my fears and what i've always wanted and she told me she would never give up on me or hurt me and would never leave under any circumstance and promises this over and over.

So for it to now be happening without any serious reasoning e.g cheating , abuse , drugs etc etc it is extremely disheartening and hard to deal with.

[Fian]

Let's talk some more about the husband's leadership in the family.  I already gave you verses on servant leadership which I believe you rejected.  I am not going to restate them here.

I would like to suggest to you that your position and your wife's are probably not polar opposites.  She probably does still believe that the wife should submit to her husband, however your interpretation of what that means is too extreme for her.  Some flexibility on your part might go a long way in making it easier for her to submit to you.  It should also be noted that we should be growing in our Christian walk.  She may grow in her ability to submit to you.  I know that my wife did with me.  Having less than the ideal today, doesn't mean it can't get better in the future.  However, that won't happen so long as you have the mindset that surrendering an inch means that you can't respect yourself and she will use it to walk all over you.  An inch can just mean an inch.

It should also be noted that you live in a western country, which does not recognize a husband's authority over his wife.  She can refuse to submit and there isn't much you can do about it.  It should also be noted that when she refuses to submit, it is really an issue between her and God.  He will deal with her when it comes to sin in her life.

How to handle things in an imperfect world is challenging.  I stopped discussing the theology of Old Testament divorce with you as it seemed to be a side topic, but I think it actually applies here.  Let's review the verses. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 says, "When a man takes a wife and marries her, and it happens that she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out from his house, and she leaves his house and goes and becomes another man's wife, and if the latter husband...<summary: divorces her or dies>... then her former husband who sent her away is not allowed to take her again to be his wife, since she has been defiled, for that is an abomination before the Lord, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance."

Some key points from this passage.  Divorce was legal, and established by God since God inspired both the Old and New Testament.  There was no expectation that marrying another would result in the execution of either of them for adultery.  If divorce equals adultery equals execution, then the Bible would not cover remarriage to the original when a second marriage had ended.

Let's now talk about New Testament verses on divorce.  Matthew 5:31-32 says, "And it was said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce', but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery." (Luke 16:18 has the reverse that the man also commits adultery if he remarries).

Matthew 19:3-8 says, "And some Pharisees came to Him, testing Him, and saying, 'Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause at all?'  And He answered and said, 'Have you not read, that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said 'For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to the wife, and the two shall become one flesh?  Consequently they are no longer two, but one flesh.  What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.'  They said to Him, 'Why then did Moses command to give her a certificate and divorce her?'  He said to them, 'Because of your hardness of heart, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it has not been this way.'"

From these verses, we see that while God allowed divorce, he still views it as sin.  But why allow divorce at all?  My interpretation of the above verse is that insisting on perfection with imperfect people can do even more damage.  If divorce was not allowed, you would probably see an increase in 3 things - murder, suicide, and "open" marriages where the husband was practically divorced from his wife, but did not release her.  God, in his wisdom, saw that allowing divorce was better for the long term health of society, even though it was contrary to His design.

So, why do I bring this up?  Your wife and you are at odds about your roles in marriage.  You insisting on perfection is resulting in the complete destruction of your marriage.  Some kind of compromise may save your marriage, and allow you both to get better at your roles.  In my mind, the simplest compromise is you make decisions, she decides on whether to follow, and you let God deal with her if she refuses to follow your lead.

One last thing about leadership.  You are the leader, but you can still delegate.  You don't have to make all the decisions.  Proverbs 31:16 says, "She considers a field and buys it, from her earnings she plants a vineyard."  The Proverbs 31 woman is praised as an example for women to follow, but it shows that doesn't mean that she lacks the ability to make decisions.

[Fian]

I sometimes drink tea sitting in the garden and just ponder is a relationship / marriage really meant to be this stressful and difficult

Yes, marriages are usually very difficult, especially the first year.  We both bring our sin into the marriage, and 2 becoming one flesh is difficult.  It can get a lot better.

[understandBPD]

I already gave you verses on servant leadership which I believe you rejected.

You probably misunderstood me i don't disagree with servant leadership and don't reject the bible verses you have mentioned. It might be we have different interpretations of those within a marriage and specific scenarios.

Some flexibility on your part might go a long way in making it easier for her to submit to you.

As mentioned i am willing to be flexible if i wasn't i would of sent her my terms of marriage and said make a decision you follow these or you can go divorce me.

I understand i am new to marriage and being a husband and it takes time to develop the right skills needed to have a successful marriage but the part about not leaving each other is what allows a marriage and 2 people to grow and improve if 1 of those abandons there vowels you sabotage that growth.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4

This applies to when a man marries a woman and is intimate with her he finds some uncleaness e.g she isn't a virgin that he may put her away or any other uncleaness based on KJV and Strong's H6172 definition.

Divorce is not adultery but remarrying and or sleeping with another person other than your wife or husband (first marriage) is adultery and the punishment for adultery was death. That is why in 1 Corinthians 7:11 it says if she departs let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband and let not the husband put away his wife. It does not say let her go re marry because God allows it.

From these verses, we see that while God allowed divorce, he still views it as sin.  But why allow divorce at all?

Jesus said from the beginning it wasn't so (God's intention was for 2 people to become 1 flesh forever that's it) it also only talks about husbands divorcing wives not wives being allowed to divorce husbands.

It also says any man that puts away his wife other than Fornication (wife not being a virgin on consumation) then that man also commits adultery and again the penalty for adultery is stoning to death.

God hates divorce and it is not Gods intention to allow or support divorce outside of the 1 and only biblical reason which is fornication. (The reason adultery isn't classified as another reason for divorce is because if a person was found to commit adultery they'd be put to death which releases the other person from there vowels allowing them to re marry without commiting adultery)

Moses permitted divorce not God and the pharisee's were "Tempting" Jesus to try to catch him out.

If divorce was not allowed, you would probably see an increase in 3 things - murder, suicide, and "open" marriages where the husband was practically divorced from his wife, but did not release her.  God, in his wisdom, saw that allowing divorce was better for the long term health of society, even though it was contrary to His design.

I disagree , it means that people would take there commitment more seriously and not enter into a unbreakable bond with eachother without serious thought and consideration. Divorce destroys families and childrens lives it also increased suicide rates amongst men (since most women are the 1's who opt for divorce) another way satan temps females but with Gods design this wasn't possible a woman who married a man it was until death literally there was no way out so they were faithful and committed to the marriage and did whatever it would take to make it work.

Now women can get no fault divorces and in some countries clean out the husbands bank account this isn't biblical and it encourages destructive sinful behaviour.

You insisting on perfection is resulting in the complete destruction of your marriage.  

This isn't true she is far from perfect and i've been very lenient and understanding patient and forgiving with her for many years.

In my mind, the simplest compromise is you make decisions, she decides on whether to follow, and you let God deal with her if she refuses to follow your lead.

This was already being done e.g with wanting a child , her job and many other things if anything she's shown that allowing her to have the freedom to make her own decisions is a disaster because she has no idea what she's doing. (In the early days of our relationship and up until marriage she would joke because everytime she would claim to be right about something and i said she wasn't it would turn out she was wrong and after this happening many times she eventually stopped questioning my judgement and would say "hub knows best" and listen and i always made decisions in her best interest but when she started being rebellious and fighting me for control she started going against this even to her own destruction especially now more than ever)

The Proverbs 31 woman is praised as an example for women to follow, but it shows that doesn't mean that she lacks the ability to make decisions.

Agreed and she was allowed to make a lot of her own decisions it was only a few things that i refused to compromise on and i still hold those views e.g no male friends and your husband makes the final decision on important matters.

Yes, marriages are usually very difficult, especially the first year.  We both bring our sin into the marriage, and 2 becoming one flesh is difficult.  It can get a lot better.

I think this is something she failed to understand that when we got married vs when we actually started to finally live together are not the same i tried to explain to her that while we got married years ago we were apart for most of it which wasnt inside our control and now that we started to live together (10 months) those 10 months are the first year technically of our marriage. I explained to her that what we are going through with the struggles and learning about each other the pro's and con's even feeling like oh no what have i got myself into are all completely normal.

I've read and heard stories of plenty of women in there first year of marriage having regret and life crisis and or wanting to go back to there parents etc but the commitment you made to each other prevents that and in time is what allows you to accept and grow together. Once again its why i look down so poorly on people who abandon there marriages and divorce and no amount of debate will convince me that God's intention for marriage was divorce. (I think this is why BPD people have issues with long term stable relationships when they get to the point of difficult and having to overcome and grow they run and discard then repeat the cycle with another and what i was trying to do with my wife was help her understand she has an issue she's repeating a cycle and if she can identify it herself she can then be able to break it.)

Marriage is until death if you want out of it 1 of you have to die simple as that. If your situation is so hopeless that you have to leave then you remain separated and alone until you die or you return to your husband/wife. Anything outside of this re marriage / relationships etc are all adultery and constant sin and deserve death. This is Gods true teaching and meaning of marriage.

[Fian]

Moses permitted divorce not God

This is way wrong, and a big deal.  Either the book of Deuteronomy is the inspired word of God, or it is just a product of man, and can be disregarded.  If you can disregard the books that Moses wrote (first 5 books of the Bible), then you have eliminated the entire foundation of the Christian faith.  If you think parts are inspired, and parts are not, then you are putting yourself in the judgement seat and creating a faith distinct from the Bible.  Your wife could just as easily dismiss the writings of Paul (aka Ephesians and most of the New Testament) in the New Testament and say there is no reason to submit to your husband.

This applies to when a man marries a woman and is intimate with her he finds some uncleaness e.g she isn't a virgin that he may put her away or any other uncleaness based on KJV and Strong's H6172 definition.

Divorce is not adultery but remarrying and or sleeping with another person other than your wife or husband (first marriage) is adultery and the punishment for adultery was death. That is why in 1 Corinthians 7:11 it says if she departs let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband and let not the husband put away his wife. It does not say let her go re marry because God allows it.

Even in the time of Jesus, there was a debate on whether there were limits on when a person could divorce, hence the reason why Jesus was asked if a husband could divorce his wife for any reason.

As for remarriage = adultery = death, you need to reread the Deuteronomy passage again.  First off, I get your logic.  Jesus said remarriage = adultery, OT Law had a death penalty for adultery, hence remarriage equals adultery equals death.  However, there are some issues with the logic.  First, Moses was the one who established a death penalty for adultery.  Was he correct about that, but incorrect about divorce?  By picking and choosing which passages that Moses wrote that you agree with, and others that you do not, you are on very shaky ground as I described above.  Second, it was Jesus that made the connection between divorce/remarriage equals adultery, 1400 years after Moses implemented the divorce and adultery laws.  Before then, no one considered remarriage as adultery, therefore no one was at risk of being executed for getting remarried.

[understandBPD]

Jesus that made the connection between divorce/remarriage equals adultery, 1400 years after Moses implemented the divorce and adultery laws.  Before then, no one considered remarriage as adultery, therefore no one was at risk of being executed for getting remarried.

Might of been a reason why he considered remarriage as adultery wouldn't be the first time people have drifted from the path of God and at 1 point he flooded the world to wipe away all of the corruption.

I don't really see the point in arguing about divorce here my interpretation of the verses in the bible clearly show Gods intention is not divorce he hates divorce and if you divorce and re marry its adultery and sin and therefore you should be stoned and i plan to stick with this interpretation because i believe that is what makes the most sense and is the best way for a marriage to thrive.

Giving people options to leave opens pandora's box and you will be hard pressed to not come across people who justify divorce for all kinds of reasons. The simple fact is i have not done anything to my wife that would justify a divorce under any circumstance. If that's the option she decides to inflict on me then God will deal with her accordingly.

We aren't going to agree on divorce being a good thing or permitted or that it was somehow Gods plan to allow it for society or whatever other reason your trying to justify it with.

So perhaps we skip this topic or agree to disagree.

[Skip]

...if you divorce and re marry its adultery and sin and therefore you should be stoned and i plan to stick with this interpretation..

The simple fact is i have not done anything to my wife that would justify a divorce under any circumstance...

If your wife wants a divorce after 1 year, the courts are going to grant it. And she is not going to be deterred by a fear of being stoned.

We're 100 posts into this discussion about "what you should do". Lots of ideas have been floated. You want your wife to move back home. She says you are dangerous and has cut all lines of communication for months. You are concerned about her filing for divorce when the 12 month cooling off period expires in a few months. You say you've changed.

Given all that has been said here, all that you have pondered and synthesized, what's your plan at this point?

[Fian]

Ok, I don't think you understand my position.  Here is my position:
1.  Divorce is bad, and I don't think your wife should divorce you.
2.  In God's eyes, remarriage is adultery and not what He wants a Christian to do.
3.  God did not want those that remarried in the Old Testament to be executed.  Otherwise there would be no point in establishing a divorce law with remarriage rules in the first place.

I agree, though, that all of the above is a side issue.  However, I was trying to help you understand something about how God deals with mankind.  Even though his plan was for mankind to marry once and stay married, He understood that holding society to that standard would be destructive.  He was flexible in how he dealt with humanity.  Sin is still sin, but he gave an outlet that would be less destructive to society.  In the same way, I am encouraging you to have flexibility with your wife when it comes to submission.  Even if it is not the ideal, it is better than what you have currently.  From there you can let God work in both your lives to lead you to the ideal.

[understandBPD]

what's your plan at this point?

Keep improving myself and reflecting on the marriage and understanding what went wrong and how things could be done differently in the future.

Wait for her parcel with the letter and gift for her birthday to be delivered should be within the next 2-3 days.

Transfer her some money before her birthday so she has enough to do something she enjoys or buy something nice for herself. Send her an email on her birthday wishing her best wishes telling her that i love her and hope she has a great day.

Organize flowers to be delivered on the day of her birthday.

Wait a week or so to see if there's any response or positive feedback and then contact her father asking if he would speak with her and to ask if he can try to mediate between me and her and see if we can resolve some of this conflict.

If all of that fails keep working on myself and give her space and not contact her for the forseeable future continue sending her financial support and pray that God will help us both through these difficulties and ultimately wait to see what she decides to do. (Perhaps my birthday in november i may hear from her as well)

If i've missed anything or should consider something else let me know.

In the same way, I am encouraging you to have flexibility with your wife when it comes to submission.  Even if it is not the ideal, it is better than what you have currently.  From there you can let God work in both your lives to lead you to the ideal.

I've continually said that i am willing to compromise and be flexible and agree with what you've said above the problem is she does not seem to care for any of this nor is willing to negotiate , communicate or do anything on her part whatsoever.

You seem to think i have this outrageous authoritarian view of submission if you provide me an example or scenarios and ask me how i would handle them i can tell you what or how i would and then you can perhaps point out what you may feel is wrong but if you ask me overall how i was with my wife.

I would say i was very fair and lenient with her and always tried to make decisions in her favor to see her happy and the only time i was not willing to budge was in regards to male friendships and even then she had male friends on her facebook not only did be flexible and allow her to continue using social media but i also ignored the fact she still had male friends on facebook as well which bothered me the entire time more so because i don't use social media nor do i maintain any female friendships other than my mother and direct family members.

I actually think she got too much freedom from me and she continually pushed the limits (why i mentioned the power struggle) in her country what she's doing would be unheard of there's no divorcing or ignoring your husband and she would be punished accordingly but with me she kept pushing to get her way and try to make me give in and it wasn't in a loving kind humble yourself serve your wife way it was in a malicious toxic destructive way and i believe God wanted me to reject that and so i did.

Sometimes you need to stand firm in what you believe and not cater to destruction i want my marriage to continue i do love my wife dearly but if she does not learn and continues her way of doing things she will lead a very sinful and destructive life with disappointment in the end. I will be heart broken and alone because i don't plan to remarry and we miss the opportunity to have a family overall extremely sad and heartbreaking but its really her decision and i don't really see how i can change that at this point other than speaking to the father and just being patient.

[Fian]

the only time i was not willing to budge was in regards to male friendships and even then she had male friends on her facebook not only did be flexible and allow her to continue using social media but i also ignored the fact she still had male friends on facebook as well which bothered me the entire time

Whether she has male online friends is her decision to make.  My wife had a similar issue with me (I described it in another post), and ultimately she left it up to God, and God dealt with me on it.

One thing about future plans, you left out that when you ask to speak with her, you ask for a conversation with her where you promise not to fight, i.e. a low conflict conversation.

[Fian]

Later on when she realized she wasn't able to get me to cave in to her demands she started to dislike it the more rebellious she became the more tough i would get and it was a constant powerstruggle

One thing that is confusing for me is you say you were flexible/willing to be flexible, yet quotes above suggest that you weren't, plus we can assume that she would say that you were not flexible.  I guess I need more details to understand the arguments that you had.  When you got tough, what did that mean?  I would like to challenge you to give details on when you were at your worst - don't worry if it makes you look bad to unknown strangers on the internet.  In what ways was she challenging your authority, that you felt that you could not let it go?

[Notwendy]

Sometimes you need to stand firm in what you believe and not cater to destruction i want my marriage to continue i do love my wife dearly but if she does not learn and continues her way of doing things she will lead a very sinful and destructive life with disappointment in the end. I will be heart broken and alone because i don't plan to remarry and we miss the opportunity to have a family overall extremely sad and heartbreaking but its really her decision and i don't really see how i can change that at this point other than speaking to the father and just being patient.

While you say you were flexible, she may have experienced the marriage differently than you did. We are also influenced by our families of origin and the role models we had growing up. I don't know if you had that role model or formulated it based on your ideals and beliefs. If she grew up with an abusive mother, but was close to her father, she didn't have that role model.

We don't know if your wife has BPD but you did mention she was abused. If someone has been abused as a child, they may be extra sensitive to any display of anger. So what seems like a normal argument to you may actually be frightening to her- even if you had no intention of that. Also, suggestions can also come across as criticism. I have a mother with BPD who feels invalidated at suggestions, even if the intent was to be helpful. I had to learn that my attempts to "help" felt hurtful to her and so they weren't welcome.

We bring our emotional responses into a marriage and we may have different emotional experiences. No two people are alike. You mentioned that your wife eventually got "tired of losing" during your discussions. Maybe she felt she had no choice but to give up after trying what she knew to do didn't work. You may have felt you were being lenient. She may have felt otherwise.

One impasse for the two of you is the request for the 30 minute phone call. She explained that speaking to you is stressful for her. Your experience is that you felt this was controlling the relationship and you'd be a doormat if you agreed. To take this out of the who is right or wrong context, you both had different feelings about this. Seems you both have convictions about this. There's no way to know what will proceed from here.