Finally separated?

[Bella2798]

It seems like he's experiencing a heavy depression (as he said on his story on his ig). And also shared a video about missing people after break up:
"-will you ever stop missing them?
+ You dont. You miss them, miss them, miss them, miss them, and move on."
I just don't get it. Why should you do something that hurts you like this and force yourself to move on from someone when it's not necessary?
Maybe I should stop thinking about whys and hows.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Bella2798]

So, I propose this to you.

A simple Pro's and Con's list of him. Only do this when you feel you can be objective about it. This is more of a self-exercise for you and not to necessarily appease me or anyone else. I have no dog in the fight so therefore I am just here to help you sort through things.

Also, what do you truly want for yourself? What do you think it truly is that prevents you from wanting to move on? Besides any abnormal behavior or disorder being involved, what incompatible traits in your relationship did you see? What makes you two compatible.

In essence, just food for thought and providing you a vehicle to explore multiple scenarios, outcomes, and avenues.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Dear SinisterComplex, I kinda sis what you said. It's not complete tho, but it's better than nothing anyway.
I've been unable to find the real reason behind my unwillingness to move on actually. At the moment, the reason that appears to me on the surface is that abnormal behavior and disorder. And probably also the pleasant relationship we've had over years (even with all difficulties and ups and downs that I'm well aware of), and the way that he matches to what I want from my partner.

And we never had that kind of challenges or serious incompatibilities before his BPD traits showing up. Maybe. We had disagreements, fights, but even when we were discussing polyamory, there were no serious problems or at least I didn't see one. All our fights, break ups, etc, were caused by stupid stuff which I think they're BPD related. When he was severely mad at me for not letting him die, for using a certain word instead of "delicious", for wanting lemons (

[Bella2798]

Lol I came to re-read what I wrote and now I see that my previous post seems cut off or something?
Anyway. I've talked about that lemon thing on here before, and it really hurts me to see that all those serious problems were caused by kind of BPD traits and the mixture of it with me not being emotionally matured and in control enough.

Probably this is the biggest reason why I'm shocked by this break up and the reasons he gave me (which are not rational to me compared to his actions).

[Bella2798]

I was sharing something about my partner and my feelings with one of two friends I have their support during these times (or at least I thought I had). One is going through a break up as well, longer than me tho. And her response was "damn, just get over it and forget about it for a while, I think about my ex too but I don't hurt myself over it". And I was like "yeah, thanks for the advice I didn't know I shouldn't hurt myself for it, I would definitely do that if I could"!
I she's going through another phase of her break up and is having her own ups and downs, but I don't expect someone that much close to me to say such stuff; especially when she personally doesn't like to hear similar words from others. I don't think she can ever know or understand the complexity of a break up/split with someone with BPD.

I just feel so alone in this path.

[tina7868]

I was sharing something about my partner and my feelings with one of two friends I have their support during these times (or at least I thought I had). One is going through a break up as well, longer than me tho. And her response was "damn, just get over it and forget about it for a while, I think about my ex too but I don't hurt myself over it". And I was like "yeah, thanks for the advice I didn't know I shouldn't hurt myself for it, I would definitely do that if I could"!
I she's going through another phase of her break up and is having her own ups and downs, but I don't expect someone that much close to me to say such stuff; especially when she personally doesn't like to hear similar words from others. I don't think she can ever know or understand the complexity of a break up/split with someone with BPD.

I just feel so alone in this path.

Hey Bella, I`m sorry your friend said those words to you. `Just get over it` is something I heard too, and it made me feel dismissed and like something was wrong with me. You seem to already have the insight that she is going through her own ups and downs. She might be projecting her own frustrations onto you, or not be in a place where she can extended compassion and understanding right now. It doesn`t make what she said right, but it means that you really shouldn`t take what she says personally.

Whatever you feel is valid, and we`ve been in similar enough positions that we know it isn`t easy or simple. You`re not alone, we`re here with you.

[Bella2798]

So... Yesterday I got unblocked by him again, everywhere.
I gave no reaction. Today, I received this message from him:

"The reason I unblocked you was because I thought maybe I can talk at some point, but not to return or have any kind of relationship, just for a closure. I thought you have to know that so it won't be a question for you, so you don't think about it"

I don't know what to say. :|

[Bella2798]

Hey Bella, I`m sorry your friend said those words to you. `Just get over it` is something I heard too, and it made me feel dismissed and like something was wrong with me. You seem to already have the insight that she is going through her own ups and downs. She might be projecting her own frustrations onto you, or not be in a place where she can extended compassion and understanding right now. It doesn`t make what she said right, but it means that you really shouldn`t take what she says personally.

Whatever you feel is valid, and we`ve been in similar enough positions that we know it isn`t easy or simple. You`re not alone, we`re here with you.

Hey Tina, thanks for your reply. I know she's going through some other stuff herself and I appreciate all the support and help she could and was to me during this time, but that hurt anyway as you said.
Thanks for your kindness, dear, it means so much to me. :X

[Bella2798]

And a shocking finding (although I wasn't that much shocked because I was kinda sure and we even had a fight over it): He's got a diagnosis for autism.

(I opened his first message that I wrote here and didn't answer, he texted again to say he didn't mean to be rude and looking from top to bottom, then again sent a message to say he got an official diagnosis for autism).

[tina7868]

So... Yesterday I got unblocked by him again, everywhere.
I gave no reaction. Today, I received this message from him:

"The reason I unblocked you was because I thought maybe I can talk at some point, but not to return or have any kind of relationship, just for a closure. I thought you have to know that so it won't be a question for you, so you don't think about it"

I don't know what to say. :|

It seems to me like he might be purposefully trying to provoke a reaction from you (by unblocking first, and then sending a message when you didn’t say anything).

How are you feeling about this development, and his diagnosis? What is on your mind?

[Bella2798]

It seems to me like he might be purposefully trying to provoke a reaction from you (by unblocking first, and then sending a message when you didn’t say anything).

How are you feeling about this development, and his diagnosis? What is on your mind?

To be honest, I'm not sure. I'm a bit anxious and my overthinking mode is activated again. :D I'm happy that he managed to unblock me without me making any effort like before (although I tried a lot to make him talk about what's happened during these two months, but I've been quiet recently).

And I'm confused. Last time we spoke, he believed there's nothing more to talk about and we've already talked a lot so that's the closure and there's no need for more talks. He kinda believed this everytime we talked. So I'm wondering what has made him think that there might be a need for a closure again that he felt a bit ready to give me one?

About his diagnosis, I'm not shocked. I already knew it actually. But now, many stuff make sense that I just considered them as him being hypersensitive. Like when he got really MAD over me for craving lemons, for using certain words, considering my tone "mad, angry, shouting" at him while it couldn't be interpreted like that, etc.

[SaltyDawg]

To be honest, I'm not sure. I'm a bit anxious and my overthinking mode is activated again. :D I'm happy that he managed to unblock me without me making any effort like before (although I tried a lot to make him talk about what's happened during these two months, but I've been quiet recently).

And I'm confused. Last time we spoke, he believed there's nothing more to talk about and we've already talked a lot so that's the closure and there's no need for more talks. He kinda believed this everytime we talked. So I'm wondering what has made him think that there might be a need for a closure again that he felt a bit ready to give me one?

Bella,

   I hope you realize that you ARE stuck in this loop of his behaviors, as it happens over and over again.

   I know you have welcomed this, and I sense you may even see this as a positive re- development in your relationship with him.

   My question to you is, since you recognize this as a pattern between you and him, do you want to continually be hurt over and over again, each and every time he does this to you?

   If the answer is 'no'; then, what can you do to change this dynamic?

   Being mindful, that you cannot fix him -- so that leaves what can you fix about yourself to prevent the hurt and pain that you have been experiencing for the past two months?

   What are your thoughts on this?

SD

[Bella2798]

Bella,

   I hope you realize that you ARE stuck in this loop of his behaviors, as it happens over and over again.

   I know you have welcomed this, and I sense you may even see this as a positive re- development in your relationship with him.

   My question to you is, since you recognize this as a pattern between you and him, do you want to continually be hurt over and over again, each and every time he does this to you?

   If the answer is 'no'; then, what can you do to change this dynamic?

   Being mindful, that you cannot fix him -- so that leaves what can you fix about yourself to prevent the hurt and pain that you have been experiencing for the past two months?

   What are your thoughts on this?

SD

My dear SaltyDawg, I actually came here to write an update on the situation when I saw your post.

The update is, he texted me offering help for an exam I'm going to take, "as I had helped him with it before" (though I didn't help him back then and he managed it himself). I didn't open his message until today morning, and he deleted it but I answered anyway. He asked about the exam's date, and wished me luck.

Considering this, what I was going to tell was that I'm not sure if this loop will be back or it's broken. I can't still figure it out. Maybe he's not willing to contact me further and bring the relationship back after two months, or maybe he is. I can't be sure. But I've decided on something:

If he manages to come back, I'm going to accept on some conditions. I'm not making excuses for him this time and lowering my expectations for him. And if he doesn't come back, well, I'll be going on the path I am now. I've done this for two months, and probably I can do it more.

[SaltyDawg]

If he manages to come back, I'm going to accept on some conditions. I'm not making excuses for him this time and lowering my expectations for him. And if he doesn't come back, well, I'll be going on the path I am now. I've done this for two months, and probably I can do it more.

"Conditions" - that sounds like a boundary.  Boundaries are 'good'.

Whatever boundary or condition that you chose for yourself, make sure the boundary is a solid one - one that he cannot break down, or bend you to do something to 'lower your expectation' for yourself in order to accommodate him.  The boundary should be something that you do, if he isn't treating you 'right'. 

I do like your outlook if he doesn't come back you have come to the realization that you do this without him - you got this.  I think you have a lot of resilience and strength to stand up for yourself.

Take care with self-care.

[Bella2798]

"Conditions" - that sounds like a boundary.  Boundaries are 'good'.

Whatever boundary or condition that you chose for yourself, make sure the boundary is a solid one - one that he cannot break down, or bend you to do something to 'lower your expectation' for yourself in order to accommodate him.  The boundary should be something that you do, if he isn't treating you 'right'. 

I do like your outlook if he doesn't come back you have come to the realization that you do this without him - you got this.  I think you have a lot of resilience and strength to stand up for yourself.

Take care with self-care.

To be honest, I'm not sure what boundaries are rational and effective. I don't want to put pressure on him and on my self as we're both dealing with many issues in our lives, so I want our probable relationship to be flexible.

But on the other hand, I don't want to have zero control over what's happening. He said once that he was forced to be with me and couldn't leave, but he had complete power to leave whenever he felt to, in a brief moment, without even considering that it was 3am, we were tired, I had an awful day, he was tired, etc. He had freedom to do whatever he wanted to the relationship and I had to accept what he thinks and decides without having an active role. I don't want this to happen again.
I don't mean that people are not supposed to leave without their partner's permission; that's what happens in toxic relationships. But I don't want to be left only because I said something like "savoury" instead of "delicious", or because he just decided to, in silence without even talking about it.
I can deal with tantrums. I can deal with anger outbursts. He makes up for it and tries to not to act like that again. Maybe he's not 100% successful yet, but I could see that he's trying his best even in this break up. Especially with him knowing that he's somewhere on the autism spectrum, now he might probably know that it wasn't "me" who was the problem, neither he was, we should've just learned each other's languages.
The only thing that I can't tolerate anymore is being left, powerless in my own relationship being forced to accept what I wasn't allowed to even discuss.

I don't know how can I create a boundary for this matter and even if a boundary means something at all in this case.


I hope I really have that resilience and strength that you mentioned. Because even though I'm trying to think rational, my deepest desire is to have this person back and unfortunately I've gained slightly more hope after these four texts he sent, also more stress. (There's a phrase for this feeling I have in my mother tongue, which describes a state in which a person is waiting hopefully for something to happen with stress and irritation- I don't know the synonym in English)

After writing you about what I want as boundaries, I realized how much I still love him and want him back. I haven't lost that realistic pov though.

[SaltyDawg]

To be honest, I'm not sure what boundaries are rational and effective.

There is a section on Boundaries here:  https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

But on the other hand, I don't want to have zero control over what's happening.

I am going to be very direct.  Specifically, what control do you want over what is happening to you with him?  This answer you come up, for you, is where you should come up with a suitable boundary to enforce.  You deserve to be treated better than an on/off relationship where he ghosts you.  Only you know your situation the best in which you are in. 


I don't mean that people are not supposed to leave without their partner's permission; that's what happens in toxic relationships. But I don't want to be left only because I said something like "savoury" instead of "delicious", or because he just decided to, in silence without even talking about it.

That is a tricky thing to set a boundary on to maintain a relationship, I really cannot think of specific examples of this.  Being ghosted because you said an incorrect word is a form of stonewalling.  If you Google "how to set a boundary on stonewalling partner" you will get a variety of suggestions; however, based on what you have expressed these may not be what you are looking for.


I can deal with tantrums. I can deal with anger outbursts. He makes up for it and tries to not to act like that again. Maybe he's not 100% successful yet, but I could see that he's trying his best even in this break up.

I know it is not an issue for you; however, it was for me this is where I set a boundary on my uBPDw.  I would not talk to her, and go gray rock (do not JADE) when she was this way which is a form of stonewalling towards my partner.  She didn't like it. 

Stonewalling is perhaps one of the more powerful psychological behaviors that can be used for both bad and good.  However, your partner seems to enjoy the stonewalling of your emotions - you might want to explore and ask him why he does this to you, when he is not triggered? 


The only thing that I can't tolerate anymore is being left, powerless in my own relationship being forced to accept what I wasn't allowed to even discuss.

I hear you, and this is extremely frustrating and unfair to you.  You deserve better.


After writing you about what I want as boundaries, I realized how much I still love him and want him back. I haven't lost that realistic pov though.

4 texts is a very small number of texts to pin the hopes of having him come back into your life the way you want him to.  Do you think he is emotionally unavailable?

I am going to give you a hypothetical situation - If you had a girlfriend of yours who was being treated in the same manner with her partner as you are with yours - what would you recommend that your girlfriend do with her partner?  Why?

While you are contemplating my most recent set of questions, be sure to do some self-care, whatever that may look like for you.

Take cafe with self-care.

[Bella2798]

To be honest, I'm not sure what boundaries are rational and effective.

There is a section on Boundaries here:  https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

But on the other hand, I don't want to have zero control over what's happening.

I am going to be very direct.  Specifically, what control do you want over what is happening to you with him?  This answer you come up, for you, is where you should come up with a suitable boundary to enforce.  You deserve to be treated better than an on/off relationship where he ghosts you.  Only you know your situation the best in which you are in. 


I don't mean that people are not supposed to leave without their partner's permission; that's what happens in toxic relationships. But I don't want to be left only because I said something like "savoury" instead of "delicious", or because he just decided to, in silence without even talking about it.

That is a tricky thing to set a boundary on to maintain a relationship, I really cannot think of specific examples of this.  Being ghosted because you said an incorrect word is a form of stonewalling.  If you Google "how to set a boundary on stonewalling partner" you will get a variety of suggestions; however, based on what you have expressed these may not be what you are looking for.


I can deal with tantrums. I can deal with anger outbursts. He makes up for it and tries to not to act like that again. Maybe he's not 100% successful yet, but I could see that he's trying his best even in this break up.

I know it is not an issue for you; however, it was for me this is where I set a boundary on my uBPDw.  I would not talk to her, and go gray rock (do not JADE) when she was this way which is a form of stonewalling towards my partner.  She didn't like it. 

Stonewalling is perhaps one of the more powerful psychological behaviors that can be used for both bad and good.  However, your partner seems to enjoy the stonewalling of your emotions - you might want to explore and ask him why he does this to you, when he is not triggered? 


The only thing that I can't tolerate anymore is being left, powerless in my own relationship being forced to accept what I wasn't allowed to even discuss.

I hear you, and this is extremely frustrating and unfair to you.  You deserve better.


After writing you about what I want as boundaries, I realized how much I still love him and want him back. I haven't lost that realistic pov though.

4 texts is a very small number of texts to pin the hopes of having him come back into your life the way you want him to.  Do you think he is emotionally unavailable?

I am going to give you a hypothetical situation - If you had a girlfriend of yours who was being treated in the same manner with her partner as you are with yours - what would you recommend that your girlfriend do with her partner?  Why?

While you are contemplating my most recent set of questions, be sure to do some self-care, whatever that may look like for you.

Take cafe with self-care.

The funny thing is that, when you told me setting boundaries is a tricky thing to do in a relationship, I remembered that my partner actually and actively wanted me to do so, when he was in his rational state of mind. I even tried a few times and it worked really well, until things got worse and harder these last days and out of hand, and I was too shocked and tense to act on time and maintain my boundaries; I was overwhelmed with the fear of losing him. Maybe if I maintained my boundaries, things would have been different now. I know he blames himself so much for the way he treats (treated) me and he has said this many times in the past in different ways. And I know he tries to make up an excuse for his behavior: "I don't love you and I'm forced to stay with you so I hurt you".

4 texts are indeed very small amount of stuff to rely on for having more hope as you said. The reason I have more hope is that I compare his behavior to previous break ups, and considering the fact that I know he would keep me blocked if he RATIONALLY wanted me out of his life. Probably. But exactly as you said, this very very small amount of communication and the length of the break up this time also makes me doubt about it. And yes, I think he's kinda emotionally unavailable. He was like this before our break up, some days before. It was like he was holding back something. Some emotions and feelings. And he was making himself distant.

In the previous break up which lasted 22 days, finally we got to talk on phone for a closure. He had his guards all up and I told him that I have no intention of convincing him to come back even if it's my desire, and I'm just telling him what I think. At the end of the talk, I could sense and hear that it was like that person I knew was slowly coming back, and he was letting his guards down as he said he'll think on the relationship again.
I don't know why I wrote all this; maybe just to make my mind more clear.

And for your last question; I think before this relationship I would tell my friends to just walk away from that partner, but now I don't think I would make suggestions this quick and decisive. I would probably only offer my support based on what they wanted, but I would suggest them to keep boundaries (or make) and do some self care, whatever it means to them. I would do so, because I know that life and relationships are much more complicated than to only say "they're toxic, you deserve better, move on girl, are you blind?!".

And by the way, I really appreciate your help, my dear SaltyDawg.

[SaltyDawg]

...I was overwhelmed with the fear of losing him...

...he tries to make up an excuse for his behavior: "I don't love you and I'm forced to stay with you so I hurt you".

I know he would keep me blocked if he RATIONALLY wanted me out of his life. Probably. But exactly as you said, this very very small amount of communication and the length of the break up this time also makes me doubt about it. And yes, I think he's kinda emotionally unavailable. He was like this before our break up, some days before. It was like he was holding back something. Some emotions and feelings. And he was making himself distant.

In the previous break up which lasted 22 days, finally we got to talk on phone for a closure. He had his guards all up and I told him that I have no intention of convincing him to come back even if it's my desire, and I'm just telling him what I think. At the end of the talk, I could sense and hear that it was like that person I knew was slowly coming back, and he was letting his guards down as he said he'll think on the relationship again.

I don't know why I wrote all this; maybe just to make my mind more clear.

And for your last question; I think before this relationship I would tell my friends to just walk away from that partner, but now I don't think I would make suggestions this quick and decisive. I would probably only offer my support based on what they wanted, but I would suggest them to keep boundaries (or make) and do some self care, whatever it means to them. I would do so, because I know that life and relationships are much more complicated than to only say "they're toxic, you deserve better, move on girl, are you blind?!".

From your description, you have a 'fear of abandonment' as you have an 'overwhelming fear of losing him'.  This is a very big fear, I know I have it, when my uBPDw has threatened me with divorce countless times.  However, when I called my wife's bluff the last two times, she has stopped making these threats, as pwBPD have even a greater fear of abandonment.  Sometimes this is great, they will push those they love away from them before they can be abandoned themselves.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I know there is a physical boundary between you and him.  He is in Germany and you are in Turkey.  Is there any possibility of the two of you being together in the same country?  Why is there such a physical distance between you and him?  Does this distance make you feel safe?

You quoted him saying to you "I don't love you...so I hurt you".  I know this is painful, but I am going to ask you another question...  Why do you want to be with a person that deliberately hurts you?

You go on to say,
"he would keep me blocked if he RATIONALLY wanted me out of his life."
...
"he's kinda emotionally unavailable"
...
"he was making himself distant"

He did block you for a while, now you are unblocked, so the cycle has the potential to repeat...  Also, you indicate he is emotionally unavailable and distant.  This is what he has chosen to do to you - it would appear that he is trying to set a boundary.  How does this make you feel?  I am specifically asking how does it make you feel that he previously has blocked you AND he is emotionally unavailable and distant?  What kind of relationship is this for you?  Is this relationship healthy for you?  Why do you want to stay in a relationship like this?

You also said, "I would tell my friends to just walk away from that partner" followed by another  statement of "they're toxic, you deserve better, move on girl, are you blind?!".  I think you realize that I am asking you some thought provoking questions as to why you are still in a relationship, where your partner has essentially cut you off with his behaviors, yet you still hang on.  I think and feel that you do deserve better, yet I can also see you have strong emotions of empathy and the 'want,' or rather the 'need' to take care of him with his issues.  Why is that?

I do understand your life and this relationship is much more complicated, and I am offering my support to you.  He has the boundary of distance, he has also used the boundary of blocking you, and is emotionally distant and emotionally unavailable to you.  Other than being emotionally available, that would require him to reach out to you - what can you do so you don't continue to be hurt by him?  Is this the relationship you want with him?  If not, why not?  What can you do differently about it?

If he does open back up to you - what can you do differently so you aren't hurt emotionally when he inevitably will likely block you again and become emotionally distant?  So, I will ask you again, "what can you do to change this dynamic"?

Bella,

   I hope you realize that you ARE stuck in this loop of his behaviors, as it happens over and over again.

   I know you have welcomed this, and I sense you may even see this as a positive re- development in your relationship with him.

   My question to you is, since you recognize this as a pattern between you and him, do you want to continually be hurt over and over again, each and every time he does this to you?

   If the answer is 'no'; then, what can you do to change this dynamic?

   Being mindful, that you cannot fix him -- so that leaves what can you fix about yourself to prevent the hurt and pain that you have been experiencing for the past two months?

   What are your thoughts on this?

SD