It’s all over but the crying. Is this a rebound or what?

[TappingOut99]

Welp, it’s all over but the crying. I found out that after just 5 days she’s already attached to a new FP.. who is a complete 180 from the guy I am. He’s basically homeless, lives in a muffler shop, had head tattoos and is into masochistic sex stuff. It’s troubling and confusing.. she is apparently all the sudden into all the same stuff this weirdo is.. makes me feel like I never knew her. I don’t expect her to ever return, even for a conversation.. at this point, who cares. She clearly has morphed herself to fit this new supply.. and it makes me sick that I thought I knew “her”.. she was a woman that loved Jesus and was conservative when I met her.. I don’t even recognize this person. Is this a rebound or what?

[SaltyDawg]

TappingOut99,

   That is a pretty extreme shift going from conservative christian to a masochist.  Personally, I do not see a rational explanation for such a shift in her preferences for men - the only rational explanation is that she is mentally ill, which you suspect since you are here on BPD Family.

   Many borderlines' "spirit animal" is the chameleon where they morph into whatever their FP is in to at the moment, I noticed it when I was with my uBPDw, and the previous uBPD/uNPDexgf in the initial stages of the relationship - once they are comfortable, their mask comes off, and we are left with someone other than the person we fell madly in love with which can be described as infatuation or limerance - which is part of the love bombing process that they have put us through.

   Since you are still on the 'bettering' board, I will reframe my comments to questions for you to ponder...  Do you think you might want to move this to a different forum?

   Now that you have seen your girlfriend's true colors - is this a person you want to be with?  If so, would you consider her to be 'wife' material?  Since you have indicated that it is 'all over', I suspect that you don't think this is the case.  What changes would be needed for you to not consider that it is 'all over'?

   It sounds like you may feel abandoned by her to move on to such a homeless freak.  It is natural to grief the loss of such a relationship, there are several stages of grief.  There are many articles on the topic of grief, here is one that I like:  https://www.healthline.com/health/stages-of-grief#5-stages.  Your question "Is this a rebound?" has overtones the first stage of being in 'denial' - what do you think?

   If you do not have an individual therapist, you may want to consider meeting with one to process your feelings on this matter.  

   Also, it is likely that your head is swimming with all kinds of emotion.  Be sure to do self-care, whatever that might look like for you, in order to take your mind off this terrible transition in your relationship status.

Take care with self-care.

[Pook075]

Welp, it’s all over but the crying. I found out that after just 5 days she’s already attached to a new FP.. who is a complete 180 from the guy I am. He’s basically homeless, lives in a muffler shop, had head tattoos and is into masochistic sex stuff. It’s troubling and confusing.. she is apparently all the sudden into all the same stuff this weirdo is.. makes me feel like I never knew her. I don’t expect her to ever return, even for a conversation.. at this point, who cares. She clearly has morphed herself to fit this new supply.. and it makes me sick that I thought I knew “her”.. she was a woman that loved Jesus and was conservative when I met her.. I don’t even recognize this person. Is this a rebound or what?

All I can say is to pray for her.  She's confused and off-course at the moment, which happens to the best of us.  That's textbook BPD recycling and jumping straight into a new relationship without second thought.  Sadly, it's all too common and reaching out will only push her further away- you must give her space and let her make her own mistakes.  

And again, pray for her.

I'm so sorry you're going through this and things took such a drastic turn.  What do you feel like you currently need in terms of emotional support?  Let us know how we can help.

[once removed]

It’s troubling and confusing.
...
I don’t even recognize this person. Is this a rebound or what?

when my ex jumped into a new relationship within two weeks of us breaking up, i had a lot of questions. some of my friends and family did, too.

he looked a lot like me. we had a lot in common, although pretty different personalities, at least outwardly. we had met, personally, months before, when i introduced myself to him. moreover, she was pretty clearly putting a different foot forward to attract him. i cant tell you that i know much more about their relationship or how it transpired, other than that it lasted longer than mine. but i thought about it a lot.

the truth is, people tend to try and reinvent themselves after a breakup. ever seen someone get a new, extreme, ill considered, and long regretted hair cut? you could bet $1000 every time that it followed a breakup, and youd be a rich man.

its common for a person to try to find something of the opposite of the previous person they dated. or, for that matter, just as common is trying to find the qualities you liked in a previous partner, in the next one.

most of us can articulate some of the things we look for in a partner; some more than others. but a great deal of what attracts us to long term relationships is often subtle and subconcious.

so, question:

what is the troubling part? is it seeing her get into a new relationship so quickly? is it how you feel when you compare yourself to this person?

[TappingOut99]

I am admittedly dealing in the grief process of denial at the moment. The fact that it was so quick, and such a drastic and dangerous shift with this new person.. makes me feel like the girl I thought I knew wasn’t real. That I was mirrored, seduced and then discarded.

This guy has nothing to offer. He’s scary looking, a total freak. Thinks himself some weird Viking power lifter with head tattoos and pagan tattoos all over himself. Into self harm and has a host of his own mental illness from what people have told me of him.. Ironically, he goes to church w her.. if you ask me, he preys on women at that church. He asked my girlfriend out for coffee 15 minutes after her best friend rejected him with the same proposal..

I guess I just don’t understand it. He is a total loser. Works part time at a bakery, and lives in the back room of his dad’s muffler shop… how could she, or anyone, be into a 33 year old guy with literally nothing going for him when she has a daughter?

I was a good man to her, offered stability, a good home and a decent income. It seems impulsive and reckless. But she’s apparently “head over heels” for this guy. Idealizing him and telling her (now ex) best friend how hot he is. They had a falling out when she told my ex she didn’t approve and thought she was just acting out of lust. When she shared that opinion w my ex, she finally saw the mean streak in her and, after writing me off because of the lies my ex told her, came back to me apologizing profusely.

Her take is that my ex is just really throwing herself at this loser. Other than some sort of rebellious devious wild sex, there’s really not much to this guy. It leaves me comparing my self to a loser.. and what he has that I didn’t? I don’t want her back.. so I guess we could move the thread to detachment board.. but I need support and I need to understand what is going on. I feel like I’m living a nightmare regardless of how “better off” I am to have dodged this bullet by not marrying her. But, regardless of my disgust.. it pains me to think she could possibly get seriously harmed tangling w a guy like this.. he is not at all her type or like any of her ex partners. This dude is a freak and looks like a skinhead.

I always thought she was a good Christian woman. For years and years she would tell me even us having sex outside of marriage made her feel so guilty. I’m completely fried over this. Was she lying the whole 6 years? Or is she off the rails in an episode?

[SaltyDawg]

I will attempt to address your questions...

I will be mindful of the summary at https://margalistherapy.com/articles/borderline-and-narcissism-issues/handbook-for-dealing-with-a-bp-np/

how could she, or anyone, be into a 33 year old guy with literally nothing going for him when she has a daughter?

She has a mental illness, you did not cause it, you cannot control it, and you cannot cure it.  Some of what she does will not make any rational sense at all - this is one of those irrational behaviors.


I don’t want her back.. so I guess we could move the thread to detachment board..

I feel that this is a good idea based on what has happened.  What do you think?


I feel like I’m living a nightmare regardless of how “better off” I am to have dodged this bullet by not marrying her. But, regardless of my disgust..

I will validate that you have likely 'dodged this bullet' - even though you are in an extreme amount of pain right now - I envy you, it hurts like hell right now; however, half a year down the road you will be in a much better place than I ever will be.

it pains me to think she could possibly get seriously harmed tangling w a guy like this.. he is not at all her type or like any of her ex partners. This dude is a freak and looks like a skinhead.

You cannot control her, it is her choice to make...  The consequences of that choice are for her to bear...  Your concerns are genuine, and I can tell you really care for this girl and are still quite smittened.  Someday, she will realize that the 'good one got away' (you) - and when she does realize this, do not be surprised if she comes back to you - most do make some kind of recycling attempt once they find out their new FP is no longer their FP.

I always thought she was a good Christian woman. For years and years she would tell me even us having sex outside of marriage made her feel so guilty. I’m completely fried over this. Was she lying the whole 6 years? Or is she off the rails in an episode?

While I cannot say with certainty; however, at the time she was sharing her feelings she likely felt 100% genuine, and she thought she wanted the same thing you wanted, in the moment she said this - however, her beliefs change as rapidly as her mood swings do.  Now she is doing that with the 'loser'.  She is mirroring him, as that is all she knows how to do to attract people to her.  It is nice when the 'love bombing' is happening.  I know it took two times to happen to me before I recognized it as dysfunctional, and now I can pick up on it straight away - I call this ability CRAY-DAR, much like the gay community has GAY-DAR (no disparagement intended) when they meet fellow people with similar orientations - they just know.

Her love at the time is real, now her hate is is also real.  Borderline's emotions when dysregulated, are always extreme.  All or nothing.  You will get extreme love, or extreme hate, and they rewrite the facts to match their feelings.  So, to answer your question, whenever she is not regulated, she is off the rails, sometimes on one side, and other times on the other side.

Do you want to remain on this roller coaster ride?  Or, do you want to get off, and see what other places you can go to?

Take care with self-care.

[Pook075]

I always thought she was a good Christian woman. For years and years she would tell me even us having sex outside of marriage made her feel so guilty. I’m completely fried over this. Was she lying the whole 6 years? Or is she off the rails in an episode?

Hey friend.  This is all very fresh and what you want today may not be what you want in a few weeks...which is completely normal.  Your feelings will change and there's nothing wrong with that.

The question you quoted above is one of the most common questions on this site- is this the real person, or was I dating the real person and she just radically changed overnight?  The answer is complicated because we're talking about disordered thinking here.  Both the old and new versions are authentic because of mental illness.

For my wife of 23.5 years, she got depressed and stopped talking to me.  And I tried to make sense of what was happening, why she had gone silent and withdrawn, and I had absolutely no clue.  Then, she announced to our daughter (who was 9 months pregnant) that she hadn't been happy in years, had feelings for another guy, and was leaving me for good...but not to tell me about any of it.  Mind you, my wife had my daughter and her husband move into a cabin in our backyard only about 6 weeks prior so they would be close once she had the baby...which to me means that none of this was planned in my wife's head.  My kid went into labor two weeks early because of the stress over everything.

The guy that my wife had feelings for, his wife died suddenly last year and was reeling in pain.  He had a handicapped young adult that my wife used to care for, and my wife always wanted to be this person's mom, to care for him full time.  And I think mental illness let her see that opportunity and she just jumped at it, she told me that she wasn't happy at home and very happy with the handicapped individual.  Only, to actually become his real mom, she'd have to marry his dad, who wasn't even talking to people because he was so devastated.  

So my wife has spent the past 15 months waiting for her opportunity to pursue true love and be swept off her feet.  She works for them full time as a caretaker but she also cooks, cleans, does their laundry, etc.  Maybe something's happened by now, maybe not...that's between her and God.  

I can't ask myself if the 23.5 years was real or not- it certainly was.  However, there were hundreds of things I completely overlooked or ignored to remain in a "happy marriage".  My wife was always on the run with friends/family and I was an afterthought until she needed me...and I accepted that.  So there will be lots of "aha" moments for you in the next few months as you look back and recognize the relationship for what it truly was.  You missed the warning signs because we all did; my guess is that we chose not to see them.

In general, people w/ BPD flee the relationship with someone new already lined up.  That relationship usually fails pretty quickly (within months) and then they return to rekindle love and restart the full BPD cycle.  In my case, that never happened because my wife is still waiting on her chance at true love, and I finally decided that I wasn't waiting for that to play out.  I think the guy told her that he didn't plan to date or remarry, and my wife's faith really gets in the way of that since they all go to church together.  It's sad honestly, because it's a series of disordered delusions that ripped our family apart.  I have healed though and I feel compassion for my wife and her sickness.

I shared my story to help you see that this isn't a black and white sort of thing.  In fact, your ex's feeling probably change from one moment to the next and she's probably filled with guilt, shame, and confusion.  The betrayal and discard happens because of mental illness, and everyone else always gets the blame because the BPD can't accept that they were possibly in the wrong.  And if you think about that, what that must be like- could you imagine saying to yourself "My own mind lied to me and convinced me of things that aren't even remotely true?"  Nobody wants to admit that.

Brother, you're going through a storm and unfortunately, it does not get easier for some time.  I'm so sorry for what happened but hopefully you can take this to heart in time- THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!  Your memories of your relationship were genuine and now is the time to lean in on your faith.  You will get through this, and it will get better.  But it's going to take some time for you to process all of it and it's not uncommon for people to be stuck in a loop for awhile.  This doesn't make sense because it happened over mental illness.

My best advice is to just keep talking and sharing here- don't be afraid to ask tough questions and let your emotions out.  Also, you have to get active to fill the voids.  Volunteer for something, or get back in the gym, or take up an old hobby that gets you out of the house.

On the flip side, here's what you shouldn't do- don't ask yourself if this was real, or how it all makes sense.  People tend to get hung up on the "why" for much longer than they have to, and they never truly find an answer because it's disordered thinking.  For my story, I sort of found the "why" from her point of view, but it doesn't begin to explain how she could betray me and put our family through absolute hell.  That's because there is no answer except disordered thinking...she made bad choices when she wasn't in the right state of mind.  That's not my fault just like your situation is not your fault either.

I hope that helps a little bit, and know that if people here were to truly open up, you'd see the same story (with different details) tens of thousands of times on this site.  It's the BPD playbook, so to speak, and it is a very sad story that none of us deserved.  Hopefully you begin to realize soon that this wasn't your fault, because the truth of the matter is that this wasn't about you at all.  This happened because of mental illness and disordered thinking.

[capecodling]

I am admittedly dealing in the grief process of denial at the moment. The fact that it was so quick, and such a drastic and dangerous shift with this new person.. makes me feel like the girl I thought I knew wasn’t real. That I was mirrored, seduced and then discarded.

I think such an obvious discard and jumping into a new relationship quickly actually HELPS you because healthy people don't do things like that.   You'll reach a point where the more certain you can be that she was mentally ill, the easier it will be to actually move on because you'll realize this wasn't about you.

I'd be careful about saying too much about the new guy is a loser and whatever else.   Who cares?   If you want to show the world you are the better person I would recommend spending less of your time and energy tearing her new guy down (temping though that may be) and demonizing her behavior (also very tempting to do) and just go out and start being the best version of yourself.   That's really the only recourse we have in situations like this -- we can get pulled down into the low energy that the BPD shows us, or work hard to transcend it.  

My two cents.  Always here to support you.

[once removed]

I am admittedly dealing in the grief process of denial at the moment. The fact that it was so quick
...
makes me feel like the girl I thought I knew wasn’t real. That I was mirrored, seduced and then discarded.
...
I need support and I need to understand what is going on. I feel like I’m living a nightmare regardless of how “better off” I am to have dodged this bullet by not marrying her.

i know. this is really hard. when you havent even processed the ending of the relationship, werent even certain it was over, and then its like a bomb goes off.

im sorry.

Pook is right that this is probably going to hurt for some time, and that there is no easy way to deal with it. it will help to have support. it did for me. it is not going to be easy, and for a lot of us it was the worst thing we ever went through, but you can get through this.

even more than you may yet realize, its also probably a huge shock to the system, and that can result in your body and mind going pretty crazy on you. i had daily crying jags and anxiety attacks, and non stop ruminating, for some time. sometimes i had wild swings from almost manic highs (im free!), to wild lows (im devastated!). anticipate this.

I need to understand what is going on

i did too. its why i came here.

it is not going to be very easy to do right now, and your sense of it all will likely change many times, over time.

but ultimately, you can make sense and come to terms with it as you Detach, and it will help. some of it may be hard to hear, or to face (i dont have anything particular in mind, but thats usually true in recovery). i know that i had to set a lot of things aside for a while, until i had healed up some. so, do that, if need be.

there are three ingredients that go into understanding what youve been through, in order of importance, but in reverse order really, as it applies to the Stages of Detachment.

1. cultivating a detached perspective with new found knowledge, one that can meld your perspective, hers, and an outsider looking in from 30000 ft. we can help with this.
2. a better understanding of human nature; sorting through what was pathological, and what was common, if dysfunctional, immature relationship stuff. how the two of your natures "meshed". we can help with this too.
3. a better understanding of bpd. bpd is a critical part of the human nature component in this case, but it isnt the only one. we can help with this as well.

and of course, the facts of your own, unique relationship. for as much as we all might have in common, those are the real context.

"did i even know her, or what did i know" was one of the hardest things for me, too. i felt...im not really sure how to put it. violated? kinda fearful about my own sense of trust? it was really unsettling.

i ultimately concluded that sure, i knew her, but perhaps i didnt know her as well as i thought. not after three years of scarcely a night or day apart.

what is human nature is that we all put our best foot forward in a new relationship. we all try to be the most attractive version of ourselves, and that we think the other person will be attracted to, in order to attract a mate. lots of people do this to a greater extent than average...people with low self esteem, people whos biological clocks are ticking, people that are desperate or eager, or needy, anyone, really, who considers the stakes high enough at the time. for perspective, what you are describing, while shocking to you (what i saw of my ex shocked me, too), is not an uncommon thing. people will try on new looks, new lifestyles, do things that arent normal things theyd do, to reinvent themselves, and especially if theyve been in a really long term relationship, and are figuring out who they are outside of it again.

people with bpd do the same thing for all the same reasons, but they tend to do so to a greater extreme, and they do so pathologically, for two reasons.

1. there isnt a consistent, stable "who they are" (which can be hard to get your mind around). she wasnt faking who she was with you, exactly, any more than shes faking who she is with him. it is not a malicious thing, or a plan to fool you, which i understand it can kinda feel like. as you consider and determine this for yourself, consider all of it, the good, the bad, and the "not sure what to make of it" to be who she is.
2. pathological fears of abandonment, deep seated insecurity, and the very powerful fantasy that each new partner will be the one that saves them from what ails them. if it were a matter of life and death for you to attract someone specific to be with, you would go to extreme lengths to do it. its sort of like that.

"the fact that it was so quick"

is, of course, the most hurtful aspect of all of it. it makes you feel erased. it felt like the rug had been pulled out from under me, too.

from a human nature perspective, getting into a new relationship quickly is really its own spectrum of healthy to unhealthy. for example, most of us would agree that if youre a single, dating person, and you go through several short lived relationships, that generally falls within the realm of "normal", although even there, there may be more to the story than first glance. we obviously arent talking about either of those examples here. but there are a myriad of reasons (healthy, unhealthy, somewhere in the middle) that people of all kinds might get into a new relationship quickly, whether once or twice, or on a more repeated basis.

some people may not know who they are outside of being in a relationship. some people cant handle grieving a loss. some people are trying to "show" their ex what theyre missing. some people are afraid of being alone. some people find it easier to cope by creating a blank slate. some people do it for the sex, or the validation. some people do it for generally immature reasons, and eventually outgrow it.

you can, of course, find any of those characteristics in someone with bpd traits, and any one of them may help explain whats going on.

but the human nature component that was perhaps the hardest for me to swallow, but did help me to better understand, is that the person doing the breaking up has typically already grieved the relationship to an extent. moving on is not the same process as it is for the person on the receiving end. and, usually, they are the first person to enter into a new relationship.

perhaps harder still, was seeing for myself that my relationship didnt just blow up over night. it was impossible for me to see for how long, and how far, my relationship had been breaking down, for a long time. it usually is, because by definition, if you arent the one to end it, you arent seeing it that way, and you dont want it to end. youre on different pages. the other person is going through a process youre usually not aware of. and usually far more so, and to a more complex degree, when you throw in bpd, with all these fears, insecurities, neediness, coping mechanisms, etc.

what can happen, as a result, is called a narcissistic wound. suffering from a narcissistic wound doesnt make one a narcissist; its kind of a fancy word for a major blow to your ego. but it has certain implications for recovery. when someone makes you out to be the greatest person alive, and you invest in that, and then they go and do something like this, that makes you feel about as insignificant as you could, its a lot to reckon with, and there are a myriad of coping mechanisms that may readily present themselves, but will ultimately not serve you, or may make things worse. its the sort of wound that can linger, and carry over into future relationships. it is also a wound that can fully heal, and make you even stronger than before.

It leaves me comparing my self to a loser.. and what he has that I didn’t?

wouldnt the same thing be true if you thought he was some fantastic catch?

i dont know him, but one thing that he "has", is that it was easier for your ex to flee the relationship with you, and to, at least as she sees it, wipe the slate clean with another; its a coping mechanism. its a self centered one, and inevitably, it can be a profoundly hurtful one. one of the hardest parts about a breakup (before and after) is that they are self centered/self serving; there are no more loyalties, and both parties are acting in their, often competing, self interest.

im not sure how useful any of this is right now, at a time when you may just want to break down. there is a lot to absorb, with a lot of moving parts, and digesting all of that right now, or even soon, is likely impossible. as you heal, lean on that support, but as your strength grows, and allows, do continue to ask, and to learn. if not now, there will come a point where it will serve you greatly.

[Yonda]

When my partner left

For some hideous creature who could benefit from my partner

I didn’t stop there

I wanted my closure

I got it

I also heard her say she wants to become “that” person

“That” person was the one who didn’t lie and cheat

That person was who I “made” her by being “me”

That’s a scary thought

So you threatened her and you might not even know how

I know how I did and I did it because there was no where to go

It did take much

They need validation

Doesn’t matter where it comes from

Any validation is good validation

You were once good validation

Now you aren’t

Morals don’t exist

Need exists and survival

Women across history have sold themselves for survival

It’s nothing new 

[Yonda]

By the end they think you are a monster

So anyone looks good in comparison

Anyone can feed them lies and manipulation when they are vulnerable.

They aren’t even looking at what is in front of them

She doesn’t see that homeless loser

She sees someone who makes her feel safe and warm

Until she wakes up which will happen

Realises in a moment  of distress and regression she just had sex with someone disgusting.

Then she will feel like PLEASE READ.

It’s child impulses and need

It’s very sad

There’s no winners

[Yonda]

Oh sorry you can’t say sh@&t on the forum

It inserts a page called please read

Which is an error page

Sorry