Elderly Bpd mum is a hoarder

[Zabava]

My ubpd mother is 83 and is currently recovering from a hip replacement.  She needs help with her house and may need to go into long term care.  She is a hoarder: "antique" collections, 5 sets of china, tons, 3 desks that are "family heirlooms", chairs, tables, paintings, tools, mouldy food, mouse droppings, and my favourite, the chair her aunt died in.   There is garbage in the kitchen, garage and backyard.  Her washing machine, stove and fridge are broken.  I cleaned house as a kid and then whenever I visited with my kids (3 or 4 hours cleaning every visit just to make kitchen safe and functional)  I am 55 and just refuse to do it anymore.  Maybe this is wrong, but I feel like 40 years of enabling is enough.

Her doctor has assessed her and verified that she is fully mentally competent, no memory problems or dementia.  She has told me and my sister to stay out of her effing business.

 I will be travelling to my home town 4 hours away and staying in the house (can't afford a hotel) for a week while I take her to medical appointments and clean the hoard.  She was very abusive, both physically and emotionally to my sister and I and a lot of damage has been done.  I am doing well with the support of my family and  my therapist and have minimized contact in recent months.  My dilemma is how do I fulfill my duty as a daughter without undoing all the progress I have made.  Even writing this sounds selfish, but I have fought hard to heal and I don't want to lose my mind while I'm there.  Any ideas for coping with elderly bpd parents?  Also, has anyone else noticed a connection between bpd and hoarding?

[SaltyDawg]

My ubpd mother is 83 and is currently recovering from a hip replacement.  She needs help with her house and may need to go into long term care.  She is a hoarder: "antique" collections, 5 sets of china, tons, 3 desks that are "family heirlooms", chairs, tables, paintings, tools, mouldy food, mouse droppings, and my favourite, the chair her aunt died in.   There is garbage in the kitchen, garage and backyard.  Her washing machine, stove and fridge are broken.  I cleaned house as a kid and then whenever I visited with my kids (3 or 4 hours cleaning every visit just to make kitchen safe and functional)  I am 55 and just refuse to do it anymore.  Maybe this is wrong, but I feel like 40 years of enabling is enough.

Her doctor has assessed her and verified that she is fully mentally competent, no memory problems or dementia.  She has told me and my sister to stay out of her effing business.

 I will be travelling to my home town 4 hours away and staying in the house (can't afford a hotel) for a week while I take her to medical appointments and clean the hoard.  She was very abusive, both physically and emotionally to my sister and I and a lot of damage has been done.  I am doing well with the support of my family and  my therapist and have minimized contact in recent months.  My dilemma is how do I fulfill my duty as a daughter without undoing all the progress I have made.  Even writing this sounds selfish, but I have fought hard to heal and I don't want to lose my mind while I'm there.  Any ideas for coping with elderly bpd parents?  Also, has anyone else noticed a connection between bpd and hoarding?

Hoarding is not a symptom of BPD; however, it can be part of "Hoarding Disorder" and is commonly found in persons with a comorbidity (co-existing condition) of OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder - different than OCD).  Please note OCPD can either be neat freaks or hoarders or even both in different areas of their home/property.

With regards to handling your mother, others are better suited to offering up advice.  However, I will make a few observations.  You said you 'refuse to do anymore', setting a boundary, yet you are going there to 'do more' cleaning which indicates that the boundary you set is already being defeated before you even get there.

To maintain your sanity, I would recommend setting firm boundaries on the behaviors that you are willing to enforce on behaviors that you are not willing to accept, and be able to describe the behaviors that you are willing to accept.  These are boundaries that you must set for yourself that should be in alignment with what a normal person would be willing to accept and not accept. 

Let your mother know of these boundaries before hand (plant the 'seed' of your expectations, so she has time to pre-process it), and if she behaves in a manner that you cannot tolerate, you can leave her stranded as a natural consequence of her actions towards you.  I am being mindful that 4 hours of driving each way can be done in a single day.  If leaving her all alone, is too much for you to bear, consider, at least leaving the room, or even the house for an hour or two, until she has had time to calm down if she becomes dysregulated with you.  Be prepared for an 'extinction burst' when you first impose new boundaries that you haven't done before, it will get worse, not better, at least initially.  However, after you do this a few times, she will either figure it out, or you can leave her.  Not accepting of abuse whether it is verbal and/or physical is what needs to be done, I did this with my wife (my pwBPD who is undiagnosed), she doesn't like it; however, her behavior has become much better.

It sounds like there is a lot of FOG - Fear, Obligation, & Guilt (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926) - where you are doing your duty as a daughter out of obligation, and if you don't you will have guilt, and there is also fear of abuse. 

Just a reminder there is a workshop on a lot of this stuff at https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329744.0.

Be sure to do self-care, a lot of it, as you don't want to get back to where you were before.  Self-care most likely should include talking this over with your therapist, get their opinion on this before you go, and enforce your boundaries while dealing with her, you need to be in control, not her, to ensure that you will not lose what progress you have made on your own healing.

I hope this is helpful.

Take care with self-care.

[BigWideWorld]

Hi

Although my mum isn't a hoarder as such I think is a defnite similarity, my mum is addicted to a shopping channel and a local "antiques" centre where she lives and she spends a lot of money that she always claims she doesn't have. She always thinks she is getting something very valuable for a bargain price, it doesn't register with her that the shopping channel is telling her that to get her to buy this stuff!

My Gran was seemingly uBPD like my mum seems to be and passed a lot of those traits on, when my Gran died they found an unbelieveble amount of stuff she'd bought over the years on shopping sprees hid everywhere and in the meantme my Grandad had to deal with her debts. I do worry I may have some debts to sort to the shopping channel when my mum eventually passes! It's all behaviour that has escalated since my dad died 7 years ago.

[GaGrl]

Is your mother's doctor aware of the hoarding? Can you video the house before you begin to clean? The doctor might not be willing to release her to return to those conditions.

[beatricex]

hi Zabava,
I am in a support group for daughters with BPD mothers and I'd say it's pretty common.
 
b

[Tangled mangled]

My mum is a hoarder too. She has boxes of clothes from 1970 in her bedroom. Doing nothing with them just gathering stuff. She does give stuff away though but generally has too much stuff. My dad gather tech stuff like cables and parts of electronics. Their home always looks like a dumpster and they make a point of it too. They’ve mentioned if we their children want the home to look good then it was our job to buy and sort out nice things for them.

Thankfully my ship has sailed, they live in as much junk as possible.

[livednlearned]

My dilemma is how do I fulfill my duty as a daughter without undoing all the progress I have made.

You are staying with your mother for a week because a hotel is too expensive, which might make it challenging to hold steady. I've tried to find ways to stay with family when I visit and it just doesn't work. I'm embarrassed how often I seem to have to learn this lesson. The closer I stay, the longer I'm with them, the bigger the target. All my years of therapy seem to be no match for length of visit and staying under their roof. My body starts to express distress through eye twitches, muscle spasms, migraines, vertigo.

It seems like a very big test to stay in her home given how she has treated you, and her living conditions. What would the ideal circumstance be? What is the second most ideal? What is the worst? Maybe there are options that are not ideal in some ways but can be offset in others. Is it possible there could be an airbnb in the area? Or something cheaper than a hotel?

has anyone else noticed a connection between bpd and hoarding?

My grandmother (uBPD) was a hoarder. Her mother died when she was 9 and that defined the rest of her life. I notice my father has a version of this, and so does my uBPD sibling. Both have a noticeable attachment to things that seems like an intergenerational struggle to process loss.

Do you have anything set up with your therapist to help while you are at your mother's for the week?

[Zabava]

Thanks for all your great responses and insight. 

I've tried to stay calm and neutral during her tirades and I actually left when she started getting rude and swearing. I'm spening the next few nights with a relative. I think she is a bit in shock at this new approach.  We'll see how the week proceeds. 

It is really interesting to see how pleasant she is with the staff in the hospital.  I think she is more comfortable with more surface interactions.  Also, she has more than one persona.  It's a bit freaky.  It reminds me of how when we were kids she could be screaming blue murder and then answer the phone and switch tones in an instant.  We always knew we were in the clear when she had people over because she would be a whole different person.  (We called it the "company" voice).

[Tassielass]

Both have a noticeable attachment to things that seems like an intergenerational struggle to process loss.

This is such an interesting observation. My uBPD/uNPD mother seems to have a similar attachment to things.

I've been thinking about the hoarding thing as well.. My husband and I recently moved mum out of her house and discovered every draw and cupboard was jam packed with random things from rocks, stamps and pens to receipts from the 70's, photos spanning 8 decades, family trinkets, every card she's ever been given, little purses and bags, old bills and letters and bits of paper with aspirations written on them - aspirations for wealth, physical attractiveness, a house living next door to my son and I..

I've tried to stay calm and neutral during her tirades and I actually left when she started getting rude and swearing. I'm spening the next few nights with a relative. I think she is a bit in shock at this new approach.  We'll see how the week proceeds.

 

  Good luck with the week ahead!

I've been working on this kind of approach with my mum as well. I'm finding the extra boundaries I'm putting up around limiting interaction with her, especially when she's acting out, are way better than any guilt I feel for not doing enough for her.

It is really interesting to see how pleasant she is with the staff in the hospital.  I think she is more comfortable with more surface interactions.  Also, she has more than one persona.  It's a bit freaky.  It reminds me of how when we were kids she could be screaming blue murder and then answer the phone and switch tones in an instant.  We always knew we were in the clear when she had people over because she would be a whole different person.  (We called it the "company" voice).

Oh my gosh, totally! I was an only child so didn't have siblings to go through it with but this was very much my experience as well. Although, I have trouble remembering any (but one or two) specific interactions with my mother as a kid - even up to teenage years. I just remember her emotional neediness, jekyll and hyde personas, how it felt being around her and that I never seemed to do anything right.

It really is very challenging trying to maintain a relationship with someone (let alone help them) who was supposed to love you unconditionally and couldn't, and now is elderly and needs help. 

[Zabava]

Well, the week is unfolding alright.  I've suggested to my mum that she needs to move all her stuff out of her house before it can be cleaned (which is true) and she lost her s#@t.  She accused me of elder abuse and said I was trying to humiliate her because I didn't clean up the rodent droppings in her house.  She said I was hurting her feelings because I was treating her like she was a slob and clearly I just want her house condemned.....etc.  All this accompanied by lots of profanity. 

I think I might be done.  She has the financial means and the mental capacity to take of herself.  Does she get a pass because she's old?  I am seriously thinking about going N.C.  There are other siblings in the family who want to keep a relationship with her, but I just don't know if I can. 

Has anyone gone N.C. with an elderly parent?  I am 55 and don't want to waste anymore time waiting for her to be kind.  Is this super selfish? 

[BigWideWorld]

[quote author=Zabava link=topic=357087.msg13204339#msg13204339 date=1701228084
Has anyone gone N.C. with an elderly parent?  I am 55 and don't want to waste anymore time waiting for her to be kind.  Is this super selfish? 
[/quote]

I'm  still in my mothers bad books as far as i'm aware and if it stays that way over nothing then i'm happy to go N.C too,  like you I have a life of my own to live plus i'm currently going through the stress of selling my home and buying a new home, some work uncertainty - i'm not interested in the arguments and conflict she craves, she just can't live without toxicity.

[Tangled mangled]

Has anyone gone N.C. with an elderly parent?  I am 55 and don't want to waste anymore time waiting for her to be kind.  Is this super selfish?

You are not selfish at all. My mum is not yet elderly but I have been NC for almost 2 years apart from a text I sent last year, I have maintained NC . The guilt you experience is tremendous and initially it felt as if putting up with the abuse was easier than dealing with the guilt. I went NC in order to make up for decades of my life wasted that I won’t get back..Pwbpd always land on their feet though- for your elderly mum that might mean a brand new caretaker who feels sorry for her after you have gone NC. You are in a better position to go NC since you have other siblings who can pretend to have a loving’ relationship with her.

[Tassielass]

I'm really interested in people's thoughts on going NC with an elderly parent as well.

The only reasons I continue contact is I'm an only child and my mother is displaying both physical and mental decline and she refuses to see a doctor. She's in a retirement village currently but we have concerns (as do the retirement village) around her ability to keep living independently. So, I feel like I need to stick it out until she's got professional health care / aged care assistance or is in a nursing home.

[Pook075]

My wife used to drive me crazy with things everywhere...and if I tried to straighten up, she'd get mad that she couldn't find anything.  She'd bring home things that she'd never use in a thousand years, lean it against our bedroom wall, and it became a permanent fixture of the room unless I threw it away and faced her wrath.  Every room had random stuff that was "so important"...but not important enough to put in a drawer or a closet.  Drive me absolutely nuts.

[SaltyDawg]

I've tried to stay calm and neutral during her tirades and I actually left when she started getting rude and swearing. I'm spending the next few nights with a relative. I think she is a bit in shock at this new approach.  We'll see how the week proceeds. 

It is really interesting to see how pleasant she is with the staff in the hospital.  I think she is more comfortable with more surface interactions.  Also, she has more than one persona.  It's a bit freaky.  It reminds me of how when we were kids she could be screaming blue murder and then answer the phone and switch tones in an instant.  We always knew we were in the clear when she had people over because she would be a whole different person.  (We called it the "company" voice).

This is a typical response for setting and enforcing a new boundary.  My wife had similar behavior before her 'extinction burst' type behavior when she pushed back.

I agree with the multiple personalities observation, and my wife can change instantly between them (under a second) when she answers the phone for example she becomes sickeningly sweet to that person, after she was extremely venomous towards me and/or one or more of the children.  She has 3 general personalities, one is where I am painted white, put on a pedestal being idealized, the 2nd one is where I am being painted black, or devalued, where I am criticized or worse - the 3rd one is 'baseline' where she acts like a normal person.

Well, the week is unfolding alright.  I've suggested to my mum that she needs to move all her stuff out of her house before it can be cleaned (which is true) and she lost her s#@t.  She accused me of elder abuse and said I was trying to humiliate her because I didn't clean up the rodent droppings in her house.  She said I was hurting her feelings because I was treating her like she was a slob and clearly I just want her house condemned.....etc.  All this accompanied by lots of profanity. 

I think I might be done.  She has the financial means and the mental capacity to take of herself.  Does she get a pass because she's old?  I am seriously thinking about going N.C.  There are other siblings in the family who want to keep a relationship with her, but I just don't know if I can. 

Has anyone gone N.C. with an elderly parent?  I am 55 and don't want to waste anymore time waiting for her to be kind.  Is this super selfish? 

What you described in the psychological 'extinction burst', and she will continue this behavior until she realizes that you are sticking by your guns, and even then she will test it from time to time.  Her expressed feelings towards you are her genuine feelings at the moment, and this is perhaps the most difficult and toughest pill to swallow.  You need to get through the phase of her behavior before it can get better by remaining firm on your boundaries.

You mentioned the ultimate boundary of NC, I would instead suggest considering LC (limited contact).  Reward good behavior, much like you would with a toddler, and punish bad behavior by limiting your contact with her.  I did this with my wife, it took 3 months to accomplish, and another 6 with occasional testing of my boundaries.  Each person is different, some only take a few tries, and some never learn, most are somewhere in between.

I do like your idea of shifting responsibilities to other members of your family to give you more of a break - I think this is a good idea, so you can limit your contact even more than you already have without fully cutting her out, unless you need to do this for your own mental health.

Follow your 'gut' on this, and consider talking with your own individual therapist to sort out your feelings interactively.

As this is so stressful, but sure to recharge, or fill your cup with self-care whatever that might look like for you.

Take care with self-care.

[needmylifeback]

Well, the week is unfolding alright.  I've suggested to my mum that she needs to move all her stuff out of her house before it can be cleaned (which is true) and she lost her s#@t.  She accused me of elder abuse and said I was trying to humiliate her because I didn't clean up the rodent droppings in her house.  She said I was hurting her feelings because I was treating her like she was a slob and clearly I just want her house condemned.....etc.  All this accompanied by lots of profanity. 

I think I might be done.  She has the financial means and the mental capacity to take of herself.  Does she get a pass because she's old?  I am seriously thinking about going N.C.  There are other siblings in the family who want to keep a relationship with her, but I just don't know if I can. 

Has anyone gone N.C. with an elderly parent?  I am 55 and don't want to waste anymore time waiting for her to be kind.  Is this super selfish? 

Yes.  I'm 44 and my mother is 74.  after a serious mental breakdown (mine) in March this month I completely cut contact.  Take care of yourself because she certainly isn't going to look out for your wellbeing.

[Zabava]

Thanks for your replies, it helps me get through this.  I decided to go home and I'm contemplating going no contact.   I am struggling after 4 days at 'home'.  I have avoided going to my hometown because it is so triggering.  I have also avoided remembering my childhood and adolescence...both by choice and through dissociation.  While I was home I spent time with one of My sister's.  She was keen to talk about the past and was very nonchalant about episodes of violence and abuse.

Why is it so triggering for me and not her?

[SaltyDawg]

Thanks for your replies, it helps me get through this.  I decided to go home and I'm contemplating going no contact.   I am struggling after 4 days at 'home'.  I have avoided going to my hometown because it is so triggering.  I have also avoided remembering my childhood and adolescence...both by choice and through dissociation.  While I was home I spent time with one of My sister's.  She was keen to talk about the past and was very nonchalant about episodes of violence and abuse.

Why is it so triggering for me and not her?

Using a cliche "Different folks, different strokes".  There are emotional differences between you and your sister, some are more sensitive than others to the same stimuli / topic.

Since you are struggling, do you have a therapist that you can discuss your feelings with?

Also, I find self-care to be very helpful for me.  Do something that you can get distracted at or to fill your emotional cup.  I personally find an hour or two of outdoor exercise works for me, especially in nature.  At night I take long hot showers, or get lost in a good book/tv show/series/movie.  Therapy is good self-care for me as well.  Do what is good for you.

Take care with self-care.

[beatricex]

hi Zabava,
I have gone NC with my elderly uBPD mother and my enabling father.

I have the same issues with my siblings, I am sensitive to things that happened in the past, they either don't remember the same events or the events were a non issue to them.

I think the reason it's so triggering for you and not your siblings is twofold:  1) abuse in a family system is not doled out evenly.  For example, my mother physically hit me (I am the oldest girl in my FOO = family of origin) as a teenager. She was also a rager and pulling hair was her "go to." She told us her mother pulled her hair.  She swung me around by my hair a lot.  I think she did this to one of my sisters too, but not the youngest.  The youngest never got assaulted.  At a certain age, she would never touch my brothers, out of fear of what they'd do to her, I'm sure.  Second reason I think I got assaulted more often is I had long hair, my brothers did not.  When my mother went into a BPD rage, she saw red and lashed out at the closest "big kid" but not "too big of a kid" cause that's child abuse to hit a baby (my theory of her thought process).  I clearly remember the abuse, but if they just witnessed it happening to me, I'm not sure it had the same impact.
2)  Sometimes siblings dissociate, or misremember events as a coping strategy.  It's pretty terrifying to be a small child and admit to oneself your mother isn't properly taking care of you.  It feels like death.  So we come up with strategies to live through it all, and they still have that tape running in their head.  Maybe the tape goes like this "my big sister hit me!  not my mom" (but it was really Mom).  Or like this:  my Big Sister is the bully, my mom is nice.  My own sister has told me as an adult that we were all cruel to her and her husband confirmed we "messed her up pretty badly teasing her."  I view our childhood as like Peanuts cartoon, there were adults saying WaWaWa stuff and we banded together and protected our own (the other kids) like a tribe!  This is how we all survived our childhoods, afterall. 

Another point to make is how we view our past childhoods can change, especially with the help of a competent therapist.  A therapist can reframe the trauma to find the positive, lessening the impact.  Maybe my siblings just did this on their own? As was pointed out by my therapist, I had a strong moral code and fought back.  I was not Dissociating, I was heavily in the fight and engaged and fighting back.  I can't say my siblings did this, and I'm not sure why because I'm not them.   I am also the third born the "lost child" in the dysfunctional family system model, the lost child gets overlooked a lot.  Being the lost child I had different experiences than say the Hero children (there are two in my family, the oldest and 4th born).  For example, as the Lost Child, once my birthday was completely forgotten - I brought it up for years afterward that I didn't get a present one year and my parents just teased me about bringing it up, cause they would Never forget a birthday!  Dad is narcissistic, mom is BPD.  This cramps their style and makes them look bad if I say that.  So I was teased for saying that (but I still said it).  More fuel for me to fight back!  What was I gaining in this dysfunctional family being a Lost Child?  Not much.  How could I form my identity?  By being the brave champion, by being moral, and by being true to me.  Why I might be the sanest one in my family.  Seeing the dysfunction makes you the healthy one.

Since I was the easiest target (I talked back) my mother could squash me and make an example for the rest (three younger siblings) to ensure they never got out of line.  Maybe that's why it's crystal clear to me what happened but they're not sure.

Do you relate to any of this?  The dynamics in a dysfunctional family are super interesting.

Today as adults, my oldest brother is likely NPD/BPD and still rewrites the script of our childhood a lot.  He also regularly brings up to me that the "worst thing Ever is not speaking to one's mother!"  (cause I did this, I went NC).  He's good a persecuting, and being his mother's protector.  It's his role as the Hero child.

My siblings that were the other lost child (5th born) and mascot (youngest) are still in contact with my parents, but one moved across the country to get away from them and the other lives next door to her MIL/FIL - I think so my parents will be repelled away (there is always some great competition between my parents and the spouse's parents). 

My siblings have coping strategies for dealing with the ongoing abuse and processing the abuse of our childhood but they're just different than mine.

Neither is right or wrong, they just are.

For me the important thing still is living my values.  If my siblings cannot support me and my reality, what are they good for?  So I don't need them to concur or even validate my childhood experience.
 
b

[Tangled mangled]

hi Zabava,
I have gone NC with my elderly uBPD mother and my enabling father.

I have the same issues with my siblings, I am sensitive to things that happened in the past, they either don't remember the same events or the events were a non issue to them.

I think the reason it's so triggering for you and not your siblings is twofold:  1) abuse in a family system is not doled out evenly.  For example, my mother physically hit me (I am the oldest girl in my FOO = family of origin) as a teenager. She was also a rager and pulling hair was her "go to." She told us her mother pulled her hair.  She swung me around by my hair a lot.  I think she did this to one of my sisters too, but not the youngest.  The youngest never got assaulted.  At a certain age, she would never touch my brothers, out of fear of what they'd do to her, I'm sure.  Second reason I think I got assaulted more often is I had long hair, my brothers did not.  When my mother went into a BPD rage, she saw red and lashed out at the closest "big kid" but not "too big of a kid" cause that's child abuse to hit a baby (my theory of her thought process).  I clearly remember the abuse, but if they just witnessed it happening to me, I'm not sure it had the same impact.
2)  Sometimes siblings dissociate, or misremember events as a coping strategy.  It's pretty terrifying to be a small child and admit to oneself your mother isn't properly taking care of you.  It feels like death.  So we come up with strategies to live through it all, and they still have that tape running in their head.  Maybe the tape goes like this "my big sister hit me!  not my mom" (but it was really Mom).  Or like this:  my Big Sister is the bully, my mom is nice.  My own sister has told me as an adult that we were all cruel to her and her husband confirmed we "messed her up pretty badly teasing her."  I view our childhood as like Peanuts cartoon, there were adults saying WaWaWa stuff and we banded together and protected our own (the other kids) like a tribe!  This is how we all survived our childhoods, afterall. 

Another point to make is how we view our past childhoods can change, especially with the help of a competent therapist.  A therapist can reframe the trauma to find the positive, lessening the impact.  Maybe my siblings just did this on their own? As was pointed out by my therapist, I had a strong moral code and fought back.  I was not Dissociating, I was heavily in the fight and engaged and fighting back.  I can't say my siblings did this, and I'm not sure why because I'm not them.   I am also the third born the "lost child" in the dysfunctional family system model, the lost child gets overlooked a lot.  Being the lost child I had different experiences than say the Hero children (there are two in my family, the oldest and 4th born).  For example, as the Lost Child, once my birthday was completely forgotten - I brought it up for years afterward that I didn't get a present one year and my parents just teased me about bringing it up, cause they would Never forget a birthday!  Dad is narcissistic, mom is BPD.  This cramps their style and makes them look bad if I say that.  So I was teased for saying that (but I still said it).  More fuel for me to fight back!  What was I gaining in this dysfunctional family being a Lost Child?  Not much.  How could I form my identity?  By being the brave champion, by being moral, and by being true to me.  Why I might be the sanest one in my family.  Seeing the dysfunction makes you the healthy one.

Since I was the easiest target (I talked back) my mother could squash me and make an example for the rest (three younger siblings) to ensure they never got out of line.  Maybe that's why it's crystal clear to me what happened but they're not sure.

Do you relate to any of this?  The dynamics in a dysfunctional family are super interesting.

Today as adults, my oldest brother is likely NPD/BPD and still rewrites the script of our childhood a lot.  He also regularly brings up to me that the "worst thing Ever is not speaking to one's mother!"  (cause I did this, I went NC).  He's good a persecuting, and being his mother's protector.  It's his role as the Hero child.

My siblings that were the other lost child (5th born) and mascot (youngest) are still in contact with my parents, but one moved across the country to get away from them and the other lives next door to her MIL/FIL - I think so my parents will be repelled away (there is always some great competition between my parents and the spouse's parents). 

My siblings have coping strategies for dealing with the ongoing abuse and processing the abuse of our childhood but they're just different than mine.

Neither is right or wrong, they just are.

For me the important thing still is living my values.  If my siblings cannot support me and my reality, what are they good for?  So I don't need them to concur or even validate my childhood experience.
 
b

This here,
So similar to my family. We were 8 children in mine and I’m the lost middle child, truth teller and scapegoat. Like your family, in mine there a more boys. I’m the oldest girl too.
I haven’t been to therapy yet, so reading about this from persons like you help.
I struggle a lot with being myself and have recently realised that I get burn out from being in a room full of people. I wonder if it’s the trauma of constantly dealing with being attacked emotionally and physically by siblings. I also fought back and was tagged the rude daughter.
I’m learning to lean into the silver lining of growing up in such a family but it’s an uphill battle.
Kudos to you for putting in the work on yourself

[Zabava]

Thanks for your perspective Tangled.  It's wild how different siblings have different memories of the same events.  Coincidentally, my mother was also a hair puller...I have been doing some emdr with my therapist and I have snippets of memory around this...I was dissociative for most of my adolescence and my older sister is always reminiscing about those years like they are a  shared, fun memory.  She will casually refer to things like the "black eye incident"  and "that time mom was in the psych ward"  like it's funny. 

For me it is painful to remember and derails my healing.  I had a major mental health crisis about five years ago, during which I was delusional and mildly psychotic.  I feel very silly and snowflakey saying this, but I have had to fight hard for my sanity and I don't know if I can sustain a relationship with my mom and siblings and stay well.

This visit home was probably a mistake.

[TelHill]

Zabava,

My dBPD mom is not a hoarder but is highly abusive. I was a part time caregiver to her for a few years. I experienced deep depression along with agoraphobia. I can spend only a few hours a week with her. She becomes accustomed to me and begins non stop  personal put downs.

FWIW, I think your reaction is normal and not one of a snowflake.  Sometimes the abuse we suffered is so profound and deeply personal it's best to limit contact to keep on an even keel.

Some people seem to cope better being a live in carer for a difficult person. It's ok if that is not you or you need a lot of emotional support to do so.

FWIW, my in denial father and gc brother are my mom's live in carers. They both told me they cannot stand her behavior. This is a first for them to admit. I was the whipping post and scapegoat all my life until I set a boundary. Am not happy they are suffering but I am not happy about them standing back knowing they were using me to avoid her rage.

I hope you take care of yourself and make a decision based on keeping your mental wellness intact. 

[TelHill]

I forgot to add, I stopped being my mom's 3 years ago.

 I miss the edit button!

[TelHill]

*caregiver. I need more coffee.

[Zabava]

Thanks all,  for your replies.  It helps to know I'm not alone in this journey.  I'm feeling so confused after my visit home.  I am not ok. 

[Zabava]

What I mean is, I feel schizophrenic...this used to happen to me all the time in university...I would go home and feel like I imagined all the abuse and domestic violence and wonder why I left home.   I feel numb, like why am I so damaged?  Was it really that bad?   Maybe I was always the problem...I'm feeling very disconnected from who I thought I was.    I feel dissociative. 

[SaltyDawg]

What I mean is, I feel schizophrenic...this used to happen to me all the time in university...I would go home and feel like I imagined all the abuse and domestic violence and wonder why I left home.   I feel numb, like why am I so damaged?  Was it really that bad?   Maybe I was always the problem...I'm feeling very disconnected from who I thought I was.    I feel dissociative. 

Might I suggest talking to a therapist on this?

Also, I have found recording my interaction with my pwBPD has added clarity on what she does and when I do too in order to trigger her.  When you are emotionally charged you often don't pick up on the very subtle nuances of a conversation, when I play them back, I used them to validate my pwBPD's behaviors, and also how she responded to me and the subtle things I did that would trigger her.  I used those to avoid the 'pre-triggering' type events; however, it could also be useful to see if you might be schizo...  since the recorder will record what actually happened.

If you cannot afford a therapist, there are some free sites (for entertainment, but based on science) that might be useful for figuring this out.

What do you think?

[Older sister]

I am guessing that you are not imagining things. This numbness and dissociation you feel after an intense caregiving visit is a legitimate reaction to a very difficult situation. I agree with the suggestion to seek therapy.

[Older sister]

To clarify my last post:
I grew up in a family wherein my father had narcissistic traits and my mother had waif BPD traits. I was parentified by both for emotional support and also looked after my 4 younger siblings. This caused severe CPTSD in me. For years I struggled with rage, depression, and now I see Borderline traits in my own behaviour too. One of my sisters is a classic BPD (drama, multiple suicidal attempts, toxic rage and rants, delusions), and I always tried to “save her.” I think there is a genetic component to this, but the chaos and unstable attachment of such an upbringing will cause CPTSD, on its own. A double whammy. It literally does make you sick.
You labeled your reaction to the four day visit with your mom as schizophrenic and dissociative. The latter is more likely. Your body, mind and emotions have had to cope with so many triggers that they shut down. It always takes me a good while to reregulate after dealing with my BPd mother. It helps me to have a good vent with my wonderful therapist (a social worker with personal experience in this.) I regain a proper perspective and make resolutions for my own self care and protection.

[TelHill]

Zabava, I think it's safe to say you're not schizophrenic. The symptoms come up in a person's late teens and 20s.

I remember incidents of abuse from my dBPD mom and assorted relatives when they happened but have had little to no emotional feelings about them. I don't cry about them.

I have been attending CoDependents' Anonymous (CoDA) for a few months. I have started to feel horrible after certain memories, along with crying.  Numbing one's true emotions about abuse is a way to cope for sure.

Please take care of yourself!