just let it be

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Ultimately you should never let the thought of who cares more about who enter your mind. Why? There is no way to know for sure and thinking about it actually doesn't bring any good energy...only doubt and negativity. Again this is where I reinforce you...know your value. You are a good person and you have a lot to offer and nothing changes that regardless of what anyone else thinks. You have nothing to prove to anyone other than yourself.

Let me be my full unadulterated blunt force trauma self when I say this...You Kick Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)$$!!! No one else gets to determine your worth...only YOU. You did not need my approval (even though you have it) or anyone else's (that means him as well) because my dear you are awesome all on your own. Be the Bad@$$ rock star on stage at a concert that you are.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thanks again SC, this is just what I needed. Even when talking to my T about it, I ultimately feel like I reached out because well...it was what I wanted to do.

My perspective is that I have learned a lot and changed, and, if he is willing, I want to give it another try and see if a new relationship is possible. If it works, it works, and if it doesn`t, it wasn`t meant to be. I am aware of pitfalls I have fallen into in the past that lead me towards a painful state of being, such as blaming myself if he didn`t answer, wanting to escalate things too fast, taking his responses personally (and as an indication of my worth and value), not being in touch with how I actually felt.

My T brought up how different aspects of our lives (career, friendship, self-care, relationships) take up mental space. This really resonated with me, because for a long time I wondered why, despite having an objectively busy life, I would focus on this small aspect. I would like to learn to minimize the `when will he text me oh no he hasn`t texted me` bubble. I thought in order to do that I needed to get even busier, which works to a certain extent, but when I am so busy that I get out of touch with my feelings that tends to backfire too. There must be a balance.

[tina7868]

Ultimately you should never let the thought of who cares more about who enter your mind. Why? There is no way to know for sure and thinking about it actually doesn't bring any good energy...only doubt and negativity. Again this is where I reinforce you...know your value. You are a good person and you have a lot to offer and nothing changes that regardless of what anyone else thinks. You have nothing to prove to anyone other than yourself.

Let me be my full unadulterated blunt force trauma self when I say this...You Kick Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)$$!!! No one else gets to determine your worth...only YOU. You did not need my approval (even though you have it) or anyone else's (that means him as well) because my dear you are awesome all on your own. Be the Bad@$$ rock star on stage at a concert that you are.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thanks again SC, this is just what I needed. Even when talking to my T about it, I ultimately feel like I reached out because well...it was what I wanted to do.

My perspective is that I have learned a lot and changed, and, if he is willing, I want to give it another try and see if a new relationship is possible. If it works, it works, and if it doesn`t, it wasn`t meant to be. I am aware of pitfalls I have fallen into in the past that lead me towards a painful state of being, such as blaming myself if he didn`t answer, wanting to escalate things too fast, taking his responses personally (and as an indication of my worth and value), not being in touch with how I actually felt.

My T brought up how different aspects of our lives (career, friendship, self-care, relationships) take up mental space. This really resonated with me, because for a long time I wondered why, despite having an objectively busy life, I would focus on this small aspect. I would like to learn to minimize the `when will he text me oh no he hasn`t texted me` bubble. I thought in order to do that I needed to get even busier, which works to a certain extent, but when I am so busy that I get out of touch with my feelings that tends to backfire too. There must be a balance.

[once removed]

have you spoken to him again?

[tina7868]

He just asked me whether I planned on settling down where I’ve moved to. He said it was more expensive here, and I said that I make more money here . I don’t know if that came off as arrogant…After that, I asked him whether he had a chance to ski this season, that was a few days ago and he hasn’t replied.

It doesn’t surprise me that he isn’t very enthusiastic about engaging, he doesn’t owe me anything and clearly I’m the one who felt more impetus (is that the right word here?) to reach out. I’m just happy the door is a bit more open than before, but I don’t think there is anything else for me to do without being pushy.

[SaltyDawg]

Tina,

   Once removed asked you a question...

have you spoken to him again?

   You answered in the affirmative, indicating that you have opened a door to your ex.  I do realize the old cliche of "absence makes the heart grow fonder" is likely at play here.  There also may be a seasonal component to your behavior as well, it is dark, damp, and cold where I am, I am wondering if it is that way for you too?  Combined with you are in a new city, away from any kind of support system, and you are longing for the familiar to provide you with some level of comfort - am I understanding you, or am I reading too much into this?

   Your 'ex' is an 'ex' for a reason.  Yet, you are opening the door, and forgive me in advance for this observation, but I am going to be incredibly blunt here - you are attempting to recycle him back into your life, something that normally happens to us with our ex-pwBPD.  This happened to me with my uBPD/uNPD/+exgf back in 2001 that she ghosted me in 2000, and when I collected my belongings, I ended that relationship in scorched earth manner so she couldn't come back, and a different recycle attempt happened to two months after I ended stopped communicating with a dBPD-T last year.

   I know that you have justified this by saying in a previous post:

Thanks again SC, this is just what I needed. Even when talking to my T about it, I ultimately feel like I reached out because well...it was what I wanted to do.

My perspective is that I have learned a lot and changed, and, if he is willing, I want to give it another try and see if a new relationship is possible. If it works, it works, and if it doesn`t, it wasn`t meant to be. I am aware of pitfalls I have fallen into in the past that lead me towards a painful state of being, such as blaming myself if he didn`t answer, wanting to escalate things too fast, taking his responses personally (and as an indication of my worth and value), not being in touch with how I actually felt.

My T brought up how different aspects of our lives (career, friendship, self-care, relationships) take up mental space. This really resonated with me, because for a long time I wondered why, despite having an objectively busy life, I would focus on this small aspect. I would like to learn to minimize the `when will he text me oh no he hasn`t texted me` bubble. I thought in order to do that I needed to get even busier, which works to a certain extent, but when I am so busy that I get out of touch with my feelings that tends to backfire too. There must be a balance.

   I did pulled up your original posts and read your March/April 2022 posts, and I see a very similar pattern, at that time he lived in a city 4 hours away, and you were making all the moves to see him, and now you are initiating contact with him (again?).  You also grew up in a home where mental illness existed, so you are likely a caretaker type personality and are likely codependent (more on this later).   You also know that he is diagnosed with BPD, yet you are still drawn to him.  From my perspective, you seem to be drawn to the drama, like a moth to a flame, that this dynamic has provided for you.  In essence I feel that you are playing with emotional fire that you are drawn to, by opening the door and luring him back into your life only to suffer, as you put it, into a "painful state of being" of being burned by getting too close to the BPD flame, again.

   You have a self-awareness as you have indicated that you have a desire of "wanting to escalate things too fast" - as I am sure you are aware, this is not healthy.  Furthermore you also said, "taking his responses personally (and as an indication of my worth and value)".  No one, should have that power over you, only you get to determine your own self-worth and value.  I also noticed you said, "blaming myself if he didn't answer" -- if he doesn't answer this 'opening of the door', as you don't want to be 'pushy', I would like you to soak in the feeling of him not answering, and then explore this feeling with your therapist.

   I feel as though you have had a lot of growth here; however, I can help but feel that your emotions are getting the better of you right now, and you are moving towards your own cycle of recycling a borderline relationship.  I am curious, not having read your full story, nor am I aware of the entire 8 year history (you mentioned an additional 6 in 2022) of this relationship - how many relationship recycles have you had?  Is this the 3rd, or are there more?  How is this one going to be different from the previous one(s), especially as he is diagnosed with BPD?  I am asking because you said, "If it works, it works, and if it doesn`t, it wasn`t meant to be."  How many times is it going to take to figure out 'it wasn't meant to be' if it didn't happen on the first recycle?

   I know I have many codependent traits and patterns (according to Google >90% of everyone has some of these patterns and characteristics), so I am going to share a document with you to see if any of these self-assessment patterns resonate with you in your life, if they do, it could be worth exploring with your therapist.  https://coda.org/meeting-materials/patterns-and-characteristics-2011/

   I hope I wasn't too harsh on you reflecting your statements back to you from a different perspective/context; however, I do see a pattern repeating for a 3rd or more number of times, and out of concern for you, I do not want to see you hurt again.

   No matter how things play out in the future with him, please do some self-care, whatever that might look like for you.

   Take care.

SD

[tina7868]

I hope I wasn't too harsh on you reflecting your statements back to you from a different perspective/context; however, I do see a pattern repeating for a 3rd or more number of times, and out of concern for you, I do not want to see you hurt again.

On the contrary, I`m thankful, this questioning is one of the many reasons I feel like I grow so much this space  . I`d much rather have my eyes open, and have considered different perspectives in order to better understand my true motivations. I don`t know if it`s the drama that I am drawn to so much as the familiarity. I have reached out in a similar way to friends who I drifted away from (although those relationships did not have as much baggage). It`s hard for me to let go, and that`s related to my upbringing, and my attachment style.

We spoke over the phone the other day, for 4 hours. There just seemed to be so much to talk about. He is in a relationship and just moved in with his gf, and, to my own surprise, it felt fine to me to hear about that part of his life. I felt happy for him. I asked about her, and she seems really nice. I think I feel happy enough with who I am that, unlike a year ago, I don`t feel like there is any comparison. I just am me  . We touched on the past as well, and it was healing for me. I shared some of the reflections that I had here with him, and felt like I was able to communicate more openly (and be vulnerable!) because of my own development and because he was receptive. He acknowledged how we meant a lot to each other, having known each other for altogether almost 9 years now. I laughed and smiled in the way that I feel I only do with him. Not in a sappy way, but a matter of fact, this is the unique way I feel about him. He said he had overreacted the last time we spoke, because he was worried about his standing in his relationship.

The only moment I felt uneasy was when he talked about how, in a physical way, he feels like we were more compatible than he is with his girlfriend. I moved on from the topic, and I don`t think there was any deeper meaning behind it, because he then went on to talk about how they are planning a trip together.

I feel best right now when I tell myself that there are no romantic feelings between us, and I am welcoming a new friend into my life. What I meant by escalate things was talk more frequently, like I would with my other close friends. I thought it would take a while to get to that point.

I think it`s a good point that I need to sit with the feeling of his interest waning, or him getting busy with other aspects of his life. I go back to that concept my therapist talked to me about, how I should divide my mental space accordingly to how much importance I give to things. I think this time could be different because I am different, there has been space between us, and there are clear boundaries that make the relationship less complicated in my eyes. Time will tell, but for now I`m enjoying what feels a barrier being disolved.

[SaltyDawg]

Tina,

I took some time answering, as I am asking more difficult questions below and ask that you reflect and process what I have written, and share them with your therapist as some of these questions you might find to be a little or somewhat triggering; however, they are designed to encourage you think of the possible implied consequences if you continue to move in this direction.

On the contrary, I`m thankful, this questioning is one of the many reasons I feel like I grow so much this space  . I`d much rather have my eyes open, and have considered different perspectives in order to better understand my true motivations. I don`t know if it`s the drama that I am drawn to so much as the familiarity. I have reached out in a similar way to friends who I drifted away from (although those relationships did not have as much baggage). It`s hard for me to let go, and that`s related to my upbringing, and my attachment style.

I agree, it is incredibly hard to let go once you're trauma bonded to a person, especially with an attachment style that my T has identified in me.

We spoke over the phone the other day, for 4 hours. There just seemed to be so much to talk about. He is in a relationship and just moved in with his gf, and, to my own surprise, it felt fine to me to hear about that part of his life. I felt happy for him. I asked about her, and she seems really nice. I think I feel happy enough with who I am that, unlike a year ago, I don`t feel like there is any comparison. I just am me  . We touched on the past as well, and it was healing for me. I shared some of the reflections that I had here with him, and felt like I was able to communicate more openly (and be vulnerable!) because of my own development and because he was receptive. He acknowledged how we meant a lot to each other, having known each other for altogether almost 9 years now. I laughed and smiled in the way that I feel I only do with him. Not in a sappy way, but a matter of fact, this is the unique way I feel about him. He said he had overreacted the last time we spoke, because he was worried about his standing in his relationship.

Tina, I am glad you were able to talk to him, and got yourself a lot of closure with your ex - please cherish this phone call that you had with him.  However, I am going to keep it real for you here.  Put yourself in his gf's shoes, and if you learned your new boyfriend was talking on the phone for 4 hours straight with his exgf - how would that make you feel with your attachment style which is likely very similar to his and possibly hers too?  If you do not want to sabotage his new relationship with his new gf, I would suggest limiting your communication with him to strictly necessary stuff like getting back items that have emotional attachment to.

He is a diagnosed borderline, and is naturally codependent, as all borderlines are codependents.

The only moment I felt uneasy was when he talked about how, in a physical way, he feels like we were more compatible than he is with his girlfriend. I moved on from the topic, and I don`t think there was any deeper meaning behind it, because he then went on to talk about how they are planning a trip together.

You are a women, he is a man - most men view sex a lot differently in a platonic relationship, even a borderline man a lot differently than women do.  I know this is a general statement; however, I believe it to be true - especially since it made you feel uneasy when he talked about this topic, I recommend to follow your gut feeling on this, and not talk about it again.

Here is an interesting article on the topic:  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/

I feel best right now when I tell myself that there are no romantic feelings between us, and I am welcoming a new friend into my life. What I meant by escalate things was talk more frequently, like I would with my other close friends. I thought it would take a while to get to that point.

I am going to point you back to the article I just posted above.  Then look at your relationship with him from the perspective of his new girlfriend - what do you think his new girlfriend will think when he is more than casually 'escalating things' with you with a lot more frequently having conversations which have (real or imagined) intimate overtones from her perspective?

I know you 'tell yourself' that you have no romantic feelings for him; however, my 'gut' feeling is that this is not true, and from the behaviors you have written about yourself earlier in this thread, my feeling is that you are still wanting a non-romantic, platonic, but intimate relationship with him.  Intimate is intimate whether it contains a physical aspect to it or not.

I think it`s a good point that I need to sit with the feeling of his interest waning, or him getting busy with other aspects of his life. I go back to that concept my therapist talked to me about, how I should divide my mental space accordingly to how much importance I give to things. I think this time could be different because I am different, there has been space between us, and there are clear boundaries that make the relationship less complicated in my eyes. Time will tell, but for now I`m enjoying what feels a barrier being disolved.

I know that you see the relationship as being less complicated... (as you have delineated a clear no physical boundary) However... If you 'escalate' the relationship with him, how could his interest in you continue to 'wane'?

I know in your mind, you have set clear boundaries.  I only see a boundary of no physical intimacy; however, I do not see a clear boundary of an emotionally intimate boundary.  I am wondering if you have even considered setting an emotionally intimate boundary, and if you have, what that looks like for you, and him, especially as you have clearly indicated that you are feeling that this intimate barrier (another word for boundary) is being dissolved?   ...and you are 'enjoying' this return to emotional intimacy.

Again, I am asking difficult questions, as you clearly indicated that you are 'thankful' for this feedback when you stated, "I`m thankful, this questioning is one of the many reasons I feel like I grow so much [in] this space".

My feeling is that your attachment style, and your ex's diagnosed borderline's attachment style will result in the same or likely a very similar dynamic you had before, at least initially without the physical component to it, but the emotional component will more than likely be there.

I know if I were your bf's new gf, and with you being a woman yourself, who has been repeatedly intimately involved with him over the years - how would that make you feel?  At a bare minimum, I know I would not be happy at all about this, as it would be crossing my boundary on his personal behavior - I left my uBPD/uNPD/+exgf for this very reason - this is a possibility if you continue to ramp up your communication with him.  I know I wouldn't tolerate this kind of behavior of him, would you?

Also, many borderlines, not all, have trouble remaining loyal to their partners.  Being mindful as he has already indicated favoritism to your physicality over hers, and reading the article - what do you think is really going through his mind as he has already made you emotionally uncomfortable on this topic?

Please ponder these questions, perhaps, talk to your therapists about them too before moving forward on your wants in your relationship with your ex?

In any event, please do self-care & take care.

SD

[tina7868]

Thanks for your reply, SD! It`s certainly given me a lot to think about. I certainly don`t mean to be a wall, or get defensive. I think I am optimistic (naive?) in believing that I can balance all these elements as the person I am today. I think what is key for me is to continue to enjoy my life outside of talking to him. Keeping up with things that I like to do for myself, the life I build for myself, my routines and my hobbies.

[SaltyDawg]

Thanks for your reply, SD! It`s certainly given me a lot to think about. I certainly don`t mean to be a wall, or get defensive. I think I am optimistic (naive?) in believing that I can balance all these elements as the person I am today. I think what is key for me is to continue to enjoy my life outside of talking to him. Keeping up with things that I like to do for myself, the life I build for myself, my routines and my hobbies.

Tina,

   You're welcome.  I know if our roles were reversed, I would be taken aback and be defensive, and wanted to help you realize there is more to this dynamic than just you and him.  While you may be able to balance all of these elements with him; however, there is an unknown factor of his new girlfriend in the mix, which can easily push things out of balance where everything comes crashing down where you might become the target of his blame.

   I don't want to see you hurt, nor do I want to see him being hurt, or his new girlfriend either, for that matter.  I agree with you that your focus should be on yourself and build healthy routines and hobbies for yourself - this is good self-care.

   Take care.

SD

[SinisterComplex]

Thanks for your reply, SD! It`s certainly given me a lot to think about. I certainly don`t mean to be a wall, or get defensive. I think I am optimistic (naive?) in believing that I can balance all these elements as the person I am today. I think what is key for me is to continue to enjoy my life outside of talking to him. Keeping up with things that I like to do for myself, the life I build for myself, my routines and my hobbies.

"I think what is key for me is to continue to enjoy my life outside of talking to him. Keeping up with things that I like to do for myself, the life I build for myself, my routines and my hobbies. " - Atta girl. #bropound.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[tina7868]

A bit of an update, and a request for some advice!

Things have been chugging along. I`m following the plan of keeping busy, and letting things be when it comes to how he shows up in my life.

I guess I got excited, because I missed talking to him, and so I fell into messaging him as I would any other friend, meaning about things that happen throughout my day. He had been responsive to that at first, less so these past few days, but I didn`t think much of it. I thought I`d just be myself and let him express his feelings if he was uncomfortable. He has asked me not to send him any voice messages or pictures with me in them. Now that I know that this is where he draws the line I can respect this, but I can`t help but feel like I messed up. Old anxieties are churning.

I guess it`s part of being in this dynamic. I thought if I was myself, it would be easier, but it seems like I do feel that I`m pushing too hard.

[tina7868]

It was so liberating for me, to realize that I care for him unconditionally, and that I prefer having him in my life and letting him feel comfortable in showing up in a way that works for him. Meeting him where he`s at kind of thing. I guess I need to allow that to take shape, and not take it personally. If I was at work and someone told me not to do something a certain way, I would say `I didn`t realize, thanks for letting me know, I won`t do that next time, and move on real quick.

Now I`m thinking of all the repercussions, whether I messed things up, whether I have to watch what and how much I say. Whether I can suggest we talk on the phone (or is he the only person who can do that?).

I`m really glad I have this space to share these thoughts though!! Like I said, I recognize the anxious attachment component to my feelings right now. Especially since he is more on the avoidant side (at least I think so), I think I might have been overwhelming him...

[SaltyDawg]

A bit of an update, and a request for some advice!

Things have been chugging along. I`m following the plan of keeping busy, and letting things be when it comes to how he shows up in my life.

I guess I got excited, because I missed talking to him, and so I fell into messaging him as I would any other friend, meaning about things that happen throughout my day. He had been responsive to that at first, less so these past few days, but I didn`t think much of it. I thought I`d just be myself and let him express his feelings if he was uncomfortable. He has asked me not to send him any voice messages or pictures with me in them. Now that I know that this is where he draws the line I can respect this, but I can`t help but feel like I messed up. Old anxieties are churning.

I guess it`s part of being in this dynamic. I thought if I was myself, it would be easier, but it seems like I do feel that I`m pushing too hard.

Tina,

   Thanks for sharing an update.  I know you miss him terribly, as you miss the intimate conversation you have had with him, and I sense that this is one of your primary emotional needs, much like it is for my wife, and a more limited extent for myself.   

   Being mindful that he is a diagnosed borderline AND he currently has another girlfriend at the moment.  If you were in his girlfriend's shoes, would you want him to be receiving messages from his former girlfriend while you are involved with him?  He has set a boundary to keep you away from him at arms length by him going LC (limited contact); however, he has not blocked you.  I really don't know the motivation behind him keeping you at arms length; however, if one were to look at this through a borderline lens, perhaps he is keeping you close enough if the current girlfriend doesn't work out, he may come closer to you, again.

   To use an analogy, you are the pot, on low heat, on the back burner of a stove, keeping you just warm enough and he is turning down the temperature by asking you not to send voice texts or photos of yourself.  Right now he is focusing most of his attention on the front burner, on high heat, with his new girlfriend, and is interacting with her.  Now if something happens to the pot on the front burner, it boils over, or get's ruined or consumed, he will still have you on the back burner, a 2nd choice, and could or might bring you to the front burner, unless he finds something (someone) else to put on the front burner instead.

   I have a few questions for you to think about.  I do not want to trigger your anxieties which this may do, so I am a bit hesitant bringing these questions up; however, if you don't ponder them, you might remain stuck where you are at.  Are you okay with bread-crumbs of attention in the form of text messages only and other limiting interactions with him? 

It was so liberating for me, to realize that I care for him unconditionally, and that I prefer having him in my life and letting him feel comfortable in showing up in a way that works for him. Meeting him where he`s at kind of thing. I guess I need to allow that to take shape, and not take it personally. If I was at work and someone told me not to do something a certain way, I would say `I didn`t realize, thanks for letting me know, I won`t do that next time, and move on real quick.

Now I`m thinking of all the repercussions, whether I messed things up, whether I have to watch what and how much I say. Whether I can suggest we talk on the phone (or is he the only person who can do that?).

I`m really glad I have this space to share these thoughts though!! Like I said, I recognize the anxious attachment component to my feelings right now. Especially since he is more on the avoidant side (at least I think so), I think I might have been overwhelming him...

   Tina, I know he has played an important part of your life.  You know he has another girlfriend right now.  My T tells me I have some 'anxious attachment' as well, so I have an idea on how you might be feeling; however, I am an outside 3rd person, and can see your situation from a different perspective, just as you can see other persons that you help from a different perspective.

   I am glad you are thinking of the 'repercussions' of your interactions with him.  You cannot change the past.  However, you can change the present, for a different future.  In order to best help you, what do you want that future to look like for you?  Right now, all I can see is you are still pining for him; however, he is unavailable as he has a new partner.

   Tina, what do you want out of this relationship?  Since he indicated 'no voice texts' by extension, I am guessing no more phone calls either as that involves 'voice', you might want to clarify that with some text messages to see exactly where that boundary is too.  Are you okay, having limited interaction with restricted text messages only?  Perhaps get some clarification from him if his girlfriend is aware of you, and if it was his girlfriend that suggested restricting the messaging with you?

   What are your thoughts on reaching out to someone new, since you are in a new place, in a new city?  He has a new partner, why shouldn't you also find someone new?  Are you interested in finding a new partner for yourself?  I am curious as to what your therapist's take on all of this is?

   While waiting for him to show up in a way that works for him - be kind and do some self-care whatever that may look like for you.

   Take care.

SD

[once removed]

Meeting him where he`s at

it is not uncommon for exes to be on good terms. having a meaningful relationship with an ex gets increasingly less common.

i am pretty good, reasonably close friends with an ex from high school. it was a particularly bad breakup, mind you, and that friendship didnt form until some years after we graduated. i talk to her a few times a year by DM (at most), and went to her halloween party each year, until that stopped during covid. shes been married most of the time weve been in communication.

i would not say that either one of us put any particular effort into the relationship. we dont do anything to actively nurture it. i would say that the relationship enriches my life, but i wouldnt notice if it went by the wayside, either. but we both exist to the other if and when we want to speak.

he wasn`t interested in revisiting the past, but wished me well. I told him I wanted to leave the past behind, and hoped he could just think about us talking again. He asked me what was in it for me in all this, and again, I replied sincerely, telling him I still cared a lot and that for the past few months, I got to know myself, and it is part of who I am. He said I could share how I have been, and he would share if he felt comfortable.
...
Whether I can suggest we talk on the phone (or is he the only person who can do that?).
...
I think I might have been overwhelming him...

if you want a friendship with him, you may need to adjust your expectations as to what that can entail.

the signals he is sending are that this is not a relationship he is prepared to actively invest effort in. hes telling you in words and actions what you can expect. its a "good terms" relationship.

I recognize the anxious attachment component to my feelings right now. Especially since he is more on the avoidant side (at least I think so),

the two of you have had a years long friendship that included a romantic relationship, that you cherish. a lot has happened during it, and since; there were a lot of ups and downs, hurts, rejections real or perceived. a lot of growing in different directions. it has baggage. the reason that people dont usually invest in a post romantic relationship friendship is for that reason.

moreover, recall that the last time you had spoken to him, he severed ties, saying his girlfriend uncomfortable with the relationship. we dont know for sure whether or not that was true, or an excuse, but lets assume that its true (while considering how to proceed as if it were an excuse).

if it is true, he may be hiding the relationship/contact, in which case, expect even less, and/or expect it to end again suddenly at any time for any reason.

but regardless, if he is in a relationship, all of his eggs are in that basket. regardless of how much either of you cherish the relationship you have had, the fact is that that version of the relationship died, and youre in the position of an ex, with all the baggage that entails.

it meant a lot for you to reconnect with him. a connection is established. but i would look at it, at least for now and the foreseeable future, not as a door that is open, but a door that is barely cracked. its available for the knocking, but you will probably find that if you "come around knocking", it may close.

in other words, tina, if youre approaching this from an anxious place, if the relationship doesnt suit you as is, and that anxiety drives you to push for more, you are more likely to run quickly into the limits of what this can be likely be. this very likely is not going to be a relationship where he actively invests effort, or even reaches out, certainly not with any regularity (and if it is, a good rule of thumb for meeting him where hes at is to let him lead completely). thats not a reflection of you personally, just the hard reality of the situation. its a "youre okay, im okay, my door is cracked if you want to borrow a cup of sugar (no double entendre intended)" relationship.

can you live with that?

if so, decide what you want this to be. determine, against that, what it realistically can be. act accordingly.

[tina7868]

Thank you so much for your replies! It`s helping me navigate this situation.

it meant a lot for you to reconnect with him. a connection is established. but i would look at it, at least for now and the foreseeable future, not as a door that is open, but a door that is barely cracked. its available for the knocking, but you will probably find that if you "come around knocking", it may close.

I feel so silly for not realizing this sooner! I was trying to avoid specifically this (coming on too strong). Let me go through the timeline to better understand what happened.

- I messaged him a long message explaining how I felt
- He replied in a guarded way at first, then said it was okay for me to update him on my life, and he`d share when he felt comfortable
- I would give long detailed answers (my way of answering when I like someone!), and while he remained guarded, he was engaging and asking me questions
- I wasn`t paying as much attention, and we got into a long conversation while I was out late one night
- The next day, he asked if I wanted to call (on the phone) which turned into a long video call. His gf was working that night. He said he has just moved in with her (about an hour away from where he used to stay), and felt isolated, so it was nice to reconnect.
- After that, I really didn`t feel trepid, and thought we had re-established a friendship. I shared what was going on in my life, and he was reciprocating.
- When he pulled back, I was still sharing  , and if he didn`t reply to a message but I had something else to say, I`d text anyways. This is something I`d do in my secure friendships, so I was trying to be mindful here and telling myself, well, it`s the anxious part of me that is overanalyzing when or how much to say, so I`ll just be myself since he`s still replying
- He continued pulling back, then made the comment about the pictures. I said thanks for letting me know, sent a link to a video that reminded me of something he said, and left it at that

can you live with that?

if so, decide what you want this to be. determine, against that, what it realistically can be. act accordingly.

I guess I felt false hope? Or maybe I was again fooling myself as I had in the past, that I had my friend back, and so I didn`t pick up when his responses less frequent.

Like I said, I feel so silly. I hope I haven`t done too much damage with my oversharing?

I still think, when I compare 1) not talking to him at all, and having no door open 2) adjusting myself to make him comfortable, and not feeling a huge barrier between us, I choose option 2).

[once removed]

I hope I haven`t done too much damage with my oversharing?

nah. over pursue it though, and you likely will. if you are experiencing him pulling back, pull back.

ive been in similar situations. when you first reconnect, its often a lot like picking up where you left off, a lot of catching up. then, it usually teeters out. ive been on both sides of it, where i either over pursued, or it just dead ended, and ive had people pursue a reconnection to the extent i wasnt interested, or just couldnt see it happening. it cant be forced.

its a very natural thing. not necessarily anything unique to either of you. you have a history of course, but you have a different relationship now. its the kind of relationship that doesnt involve much maintenance or investment. if its going to, thats further down the road.

2) adjusting myself to make him comfortable, and not feeling a huge barrier between us, I choose option 2).

think of it less about how to make him comfortable, and more about adjusting to the reality of a new and different kind of relationship broadly speaking. try to see it from 35000 ft up. its just a different thing now.

if it were me, i would probably leave the ball in his court, no matter what that means. its like i tell myself sometimes in romantic situations: if she wants to take it further, she will let me know, directly or indirectly. if he wants to strengthen the connection, he will let you know.

[tina7868]

nah. over pursue it though, and you likely will. if you are experiencing him pulling back, pull back.

ive been in similar situations. when you first reconnect, its often a lot like picking up where you left off, a lot of catching up. then, it usually teeters out. ive been on both sides of it, where i either over pursued, or it just dead ended, and ive had people pursue a reconnection to the extent i wasnt interested, or just couldnt see it happening. it cant be forced.

its a very natural thing. not necessarily anything unique to either of you. you have a history of course, but you have a different relationship now. its the kind of relationship that doesnt involve much maintenance or investment. if its going to, thats further down the road.

This is the reality check I needed! Interestingly, I think I am more confident in myself than before! I was thinking that my conversation topics were so interesting that no teetering would happen on my watch  . So, part of it was surely my ego at play. In the past, that has been hard for me to admit. I know I`m attractive and funny, but not everyone`s cup of tea, and that`s okay, teas come in many flavours for a reason.

Okay I just want to mention, he had also said `when you don`t reply, it`s because you`re busy at work right??`. I reassured him that was the case, and took it as okay, he likes when I reply, and it`s okay for me to initiate the conversation  . I`m actually laughing out loud right now because no wonder I am so confused hahahaha. 

I`m all about that further down the road! With spring in the air, there is something so hopeful in me about seeing him again, older but wiser. I`m feeling like I have better tools to navigate this than before, but I still have a lot to learn.