Well looks like divorce is finally happening Pt. 2

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Of course the judge is a bit peeved.  With two contrasting accounts, he's the one stuck with figuring out what to do.  So he didn't change anything, kids are still at your house as a home base?  Has the judge set any sort of parenting or exchange schedule meanwhile?

Wow, that's more than I got from my court.  Were they entered into evidence?  When I did that, finally in my last struggle after years in and out of court, I had to state on the record when and where I had recorded.

Judge probably is also hoping that waiting until the next hearing might give impetus to the parents figuring out their differences.  But with PDs involved that's a it much to hope for.

Remember, a so-called temp order may be "only temporary" but it's important to get the best (least bad) temp order since ours last so much longer than others.  The last thing you want is to relax and let whatever happen to you and then you have to play catch up.

Waiting in a ruling.  Could be today or tomorrow who knows.  First thing he said is, because you 2 adults can't figure this out now I have to deal with it.   He's obviously never tried to deal with her, she won't agree on anything except she takes everything and I leave.  Judge didn't seem concerned with substance abuse, told them, he said he quit drinking move on.   I'm going to voluntarily go take court approved tests to put the issue to rest.  I have no clue.  If he watches my videos I don't know how he can allow her to choose residence and school.  They are very bad.  Screaming and throwing things at kids.  Cussing and calling them names.  It's just brutal sitting around and waiting for his ruling. 

[mikejones75093]

Of course the judge is a bit peeved.  With two contrasting accounts, he's the one stuck with figuring out what to do.  So he didn't change anything, kids are still at your house as a home base?  Has the judge set any sort of parenting or exchange schedule meanwhile?

Wow, that's more than I got from my court.  Were they entered into evidence?  When I did that, finally in my last struggle after years in and out of court, I had to state on the record when and where I had recorded.

Judge probably is also hoping that waiting until the next hearing might give impetus to the parents figuring out their differences.  But with PDs involved that's a it much to hope for.

Remember, a so-called temp order may be "only temporary" but it's important to get the best (least bad) temp order since ours last so much longer than others.  The last thing you want is to relax and let whatever happen to you and then you have to play catch up.

Waiting in a ruling.  Could be today or tomorrow who knows.  First thing he said is, because you 2 adults can't figure this out now I have to deal with it.   He's obviously never tried to deal with her, she won't agree on anything except she takes everything and I leave.  Judge didn't seem concerned with substance abuse, told them, he said he quit drinking move on.   I'm going to voluntarily go take court approved tests to put the issue to rest.  I have no clue.  If he watches my videos I don't know how he can allow her to choose residence and school.  They are very bad.  Screaming and throwing things at kids.  Cussing and calling them names.  It's just brutal sitting around and waiting for his ruling. 

[ForeverDad]

I'm going to voluntarily go take court approved tests to put the issue to rest...

If he watches my videos I don't know how he can allow her to choose residence and school.  They are very bad.  Screaming and throwing things at kids.  Cussing and calling them names.  It's just brutal sitting around and waiting for his ruling.

A strategy I advocate, if possible, is not to simply defend yourself.  More than that, ask the court to test or assess both of you equally.  Too often our cases have one (posing as victim) accusing the other (framed as abuser).

With videos like that it would be incredible for her claims as a victim to be believed.

[mikejones75093]

A strategy I advocate, if possible, is not to simply defend yourself.  More than that, ask the court to test or assess both of you equally.  Too often our cases have one (posing as victim) accusing the other (framed as abuser).

With videos like that it would be incredible for her claims as a victim to be believed.

I agree.  I'm going to have to bring up mental health.   Don't know how much I want the courts to interview the kids but they know mama screams.  They also know mama screams at daddy so maybe I should ask for that.

[ForeverDad]

Courts assume you're an adult and can handle being a focus of rants and rages. You as an adult always have the option to leave the relationship.

In general, if a parent in such a scenario does not leave the relationship then, regardless whether family court does or does not get involved, the overall example for the children is an unhealthy or dysfunctional one.  They will not come to know what a normal home environment should be.  However, court will not try to "fix" either parent.  It deals with them as they are.  It hopefully does the best it can under the circumstances before it.

Children are bigger concern for courts since they are minors.  If they also appear to be a focus of rants and rages then the court, or more likely a children's agency, should assess whether it is actionable or not.

At the very least it is not preferable and ought to be a consideration in decisions even if it is not seen as actionable abuse.

[mikejones75093]

Courts assume you're an adult and can handle being a focus of rants and rages. You as an adult always have the option to leave the relationship.

In general, if a parent in such a scenario does not leave the relationship then, regardless whether family court does or does not get involved, the overall example for the children is an unhealthy or dysfunctional one.  They will not come to know what a normal home environment should be.  However, court will not try to "fix" either parent.  It deals with them as they are.  It hopefully does the best it can under the circumstances before it.

Children are bigger concern for courts since they are minors.  If they also appear to be a focus of rants and rages then the court, or more likely a children's agency, should assess whether it is actionable or not.

At the very least it is not preferable and ought to be a consideration in decisions even if it is not seen as actionable abuse.

So I should get them an advocate?

[SaltyDawg]

So I should get them an advocate?

Talk to your attorney, they should be able to advise you.  Do what's best for your children; however, getting more people involved will increase the cost of your case exponentially - it is a delicate balance of what you should do and don't do and how you handle this without breaking the bank.

If the courts determine that your children should have representation (an advocate), they will appoint a GAL - guardian ad litem - if you can afford it, you will also be responsible for their fees, and they are not cheap.

I've been involved in a custody case on behalf of an ASPD-SB that had a GAL - the one I was dealing with was exceptionally anti-male (misandry) in nature.  Your attorney should be able to advise you on how to proceed.

I am navigating my own borderline relationship with my uBPDw the intent on what is best for the children, and keeping the peace in the house, with the secondary intent on my wife's recovery, which has been close to 50% but has stalled until she can understand how her feelings are manipulating her version of the everchanging facts - a very slow process.

In the meantime how my uBPDw deals with our children has improved dramatically, there are still some lapses; however, for the most part our children are starting to thrive with the changes that have been made.

Take care with self care and taking care of your children.

SD

[mikejones75093]

Talk to your attorney, they should be able to advise you.  Do what's best for your children; however, getting more people involved will increase the cost of your case exponentially - it is a delicate balance of what you should do and don't do and how you handle this without breaking the bank.

If the courts determine that your children should have representation (an advocate), they will appoint a GAL - guardian ad litem - if you can afford it, you will also be responsible for their fees, and they are not cheap.

I've been involved in a custody case on behalf of an ASPD-SB that had a GAL - the one I was dealing with was exceptionally anti-male (misandry) in nature.  Your attorney should be able to advise you on how to proceed.

I am navigating my own borderline relationship with my uBPDw the intent on what is best for the children, and keeping the peace in the house, with the secondary intent on my wife's recovery, which has been close to 50% but has stalled until she can understand how her feelings are manipulating her version of the everchanging facts - a very slow process.

In the meantime how my uBPDw deals with our children has improved dramatically, there are still some lapses; however, for the most part our children are starting to thrive with the changes that have been made.

Take care with self care and taking care of your children.

SD

Ruling came in and I think it's good.  50 50 custody no support from either parent but kids stay in school near me, that was huge I think.

He's making us both go through mental health evaluations, so I think that's good.   I already have a PhD therapist, maybe she will be able to do that for me.  We are both required to bring each others evidence to the mental health evaluator.  So the videos I have of her will be seen by them.

Judge also appointed someone to do a custody evaluation?  No clue what that is. 

I voluntarily took all the substance abuse tests to end that talk.

I think it's good.  Mental health evaluation doesn't scare me.  I don't know what a custody evaluation is though.

[SaltyDawg]

Yes we poked all kinds of holes.  They had no evidence, just junk and things that didn't matter.

Started getting very nice texts from her today.  Emailed attorney and responded ruling was in.   Skewed in my favor.

When she's down she's a terrible person, and she looks terrible.   On the swing side when she's up she's amazing and I'm telling you it's a completely different look.  Went to discuss the schedule with her today and she had that look.  I'm so mad at myself,  but I miss her.  First day in an empty house in a very long time.

Use the time when they are away, to organize the evidence you have.  Re-read the "Splitting" book, do as much footwork as you can (to minimize your legal fees) and be pro-active in your case.

Make sure you have a good plan on entertaining the kids when they are with you in a fun way - doesn't have to be expensive.  Do not disparage your wife when children are present.  Do everything by the book, but do keep your eyes open, and document any discrepancies on her part.

It sounds like your wife was on best behavior to gain the children in a manner that she wanted (perhaps Christmas / New Years / etc.).  Do not be lulled into being manipulated by her (unless you are reconciling in a couple's therapist setting, and even if that were to happen, keep your eyes open).

Ruling came in and I think it's good.  50 50 custody no support from either parent but kids stay in school near me, that was huge I think.

From my understanding this is big, did the judge give you control over decision making over which school system the kids should be in, then it would be huge (from my understanding).

It also puts your wife in a bind, as she will not be able to pay the rent, and all the expenses she just did.  Just be prepared for when her reality sets in for her regarding her finances.

Have a male friend with you and/or a body camera rolling during the exchanges, in a public location so there can be no false narratives levied against you.

He's making us both go through mental health evaluations, so I think that's good.   I already have a PhD therapist, maybe she will be able to do that for me.  We are both required to bring each others evidence to the mental health evaluator.  So the videos I have of her will be seen by them.

Look up posts by ForeverDad he has a lot to say on this.  Definitely approach your T to do the evaluation if you feel there are no issues.  However, don't release the evaluation unless it is an even exchange by her evaluator at the same time, or she can withhold, and any minor nuances will be weighed against you without anything from her side when there should be a significant amount.

Regarding the videos (you don't want them to view hundreds of hours at hundreds of dollars per hour, you will get in the the 6-figure legal fee range very quickly) - check with your attorney on how to handle this specifically, and cherry pick 3 each of the worst behaviors that your wife has done, edit them down to show enough in context on how it started.  Why 3 - to show a pattern, of course have more indexed and ready to admit into evidence if they say that is not enough.

If they ask why you didn't submit everything, tell them the truth, you "don't want to run up the legal fees, especially as there is a lot more videos that show bad behavior with the wife, and didn't want to totally destroy her with them."

Judge also appointed someone to do a custody evaluation?  No clue what that is.

 

From my understanding it is an expensive process $5-25k or more where they will look at the evidence, including your videos and the aforementioned mental health evaluations.  Keep the evidence to a minimum to get the point across to get the maximum bang for the buck out (full out rages at you and/or the children).  Also have evidence that you are the primary parent for taking them to the doctor, practices, etc. - a few brief and well written affidavits should suffice on this - check with your attorney.  Make sure that you are the parent with the solutions, willing to be reasonable (but firm) and never lose your cool. Go back to "Splitting" for more details, and ask ForeverDad or go through his old posts.  Make sure all of your i's are dotted, and all of your t's are crossed.  Review everything that is submitted, until there are no more revisions, sleep on it, and repeat, you have one attempt to get it right on the first attempt, it is awful hard to correct mistakes at a later date.  Here it is helpful to be obsessive-compulsive on being verifiably accurate.

I voluntarily took all the substance abuse tests to end that talk.

I hope your attorney asked her to do the same - if she wants to smear your name by innuendo, do the same for her.  You want to keep the playing field level as possible.  If you want to get nasty, and your wife has long hair, you can go back months if not years if you do the more expensive hair test (vs. pee test which is only a snapshot for most drugs for the past few hours except THC which is up to a month).

I think it's good.  Mental health evaluation doesn't scare me.  I don't know what a custody evaluation is though.

It sounds like you got a fair and reasonable initial ruling - your wife might think otherwise.  If the videos are viewed, then it may sway towards you.  Encourage your wife to use her existing therapist too, if possible (as they will be more familiar with the negative aspects); however, if she uses one she hasn't before, she can use her female persuasion to make it look as good as possible, which is not as good for you.


Be mindful, you just crossed the starting line of a multi ironman event.  The 7 P's are now in play - Proper Prior Planning Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance.  Stay focused, even if she offers reconciliation (it may be a distraction) until she actually ends the divorce in writing.  If it isn't in writing, assume that it is not genuine.

Good luck, do your homework, do self-care.  It sounds like a good start, keep the pedal to the metal, and don't let up until you are across the finish line.

Take care.

SD

[ForeverDad]

Ruling came in and I think it's good.  50 50 custody no support from either parent but kids stay in school near me, that was huge I think.

Yes, it is.  During our separation and divorce my ex had both temp custody and majority parenting time.  Everything in her favor.  For two years.  She settled at the last moment on Trial Day for the recommended equal-time Shared Parenting and my sole condition to settle was that I be the residential parent for school purposes.  That prevented her from moving away, even if locally, and me having to follow.  Ha!  Within a couple months the school gave me one day to register our child in my own school district rather than switch at the approaching end of the school year.  He was only in kindergarten and she had caused more scenes.  With me in charge of schooling her school could kick me out, something they couldn't have done if she were still in charge.

While it seems your judge only said the children couldn't be moved from their school, it's close enough for now even if you're not specifically declared to be named residential parent.

He's making us both go through mental health evaluations, so I think that's good.

Yes, that is good.  I always advise our members, usually being alleged as Bad Guys and Bad Gals, to get both spouses or parents evaluated.

Judge also appointed someone to do a custody evaluation?  No clue what that is.

Often a psych eval is ordered but although it is quick it is also very limited.  It doesn't address the parental and parenting aspects.  A custody evaluation is vastly more in-depth.  From a prior post:

We had a court order psych evals early in our case for both of us.  That started as a good thing but I flubbed it.  The risk with such orders is three-fold.  First, if only you get ordered to comply then you are typically seen as the accused and the other as the victim, not good.  You need the other parent to be scrutinized too!  If any order could cast you as the perp or let the other parent avoid being scrutinized, then if at all possible, get any ordered evaluations applied to both of you.  Second, these are only an overview of a person's mental state and don't even try to assess the impact on parenting and the children.  Third, the other spouse may not comply.  That's what happened to me.

During my separation in 2005-2006 we both were ordered to submit to psych evals and provide our results to the court and lawyers.  I complied.  (The quickie eval concluded I had "anxiety".)  Then silence.  Where was then-stbEx's eval?  To this day I still haven't seen it nor do I know whether she even got a psych eval at all...

My conclusion:  Any order, deal or process where both of you have to do something and provide it to the court and lawyers, you cannot risk complying first.  There is real risk the other side will simply not comply and not even be held accountable.  So I advocate this in such situations:  Tell your lawyer you have complied, maybe even provide the results to your lawyer but then instruct your lawyer to hold it (sort of as is done in escrow) until the other party is ready to exchange the results.

What I and my lawyer did was ask for an in-depth Custody Evaluation and fortunately we chose a respected child psychologist as the custody evaluator.  That was important, too many possible evaluators could be rookie lawyers.  Often real experts don't want to bother with complicated cases that could take many months to complete.  Be forewarned that a CE is expensive.  Mine was to be about $3K (others report costs up to and exceeding $20K) but of course my ex claimed she was more comfortable in another language and so there were time delays and additional costs due to her obstructions.

[livednlearned]

Custody evals are (ideally) a way for third-party professionals to shine light on things that are hard to gauge in court, which flies by and is largely he-said, she-said.

If you can, pick the evaluator, or at least take a close look at their credentials. There are a surprising number of incompetent and sometimes harmful people in the mental health profession, especially therapeutic jurisprudence or forensic, psychologists.

When you get good ones, they can change things for the better. Bad ones have done tremendous damage for members here.

Might be a good idea to start a thread about CE and ask people how to prepare and what to expect.

Here's a link to some material about custody/psyche evals on the site.

[mikejones75093]

I appreciate all the help.

School near me was huge.  She just moved yesterday 35 miles away and was trying to get them in School there.  I'm very happy with that.

My attorney is getting all of the info for the custody evaluation.

She was being nice because she needs me to work around her work schedule.   We figured out holiday break and she gave me a fairly decent offer so I took it and I think it's best for the kids.

Overall this was a defeat for her.  I just hope the rest goes good.

[ForeverDad]

A good custody evaluator will do the same things a generic psych eval would do and more, giving focus on how parenting should be accomplished.  Also, there will likely be a few written tests to complete.  One highly respected test is the MMPI-3 —  Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, version 3.

It may be that the expert professional, one well respected by your local court and attorneys, will come to conclusions and recommendations that contrast with the "agreement" you two previously made.  Do what is best for the children, they always take priority if at all possible.

If you can, pick the evaluator, or at least take a close look at their credentials. There are a surprising number of incompetent and sometimes harmful people in the mental health profession, especially therapeutic jurisprudence or forensic, psychologists.

When you get good ones, they can change things for the better. Bad ones have done tremendous damage for members here.

[SaltyDawg]

School near me was huge.  She just moved yesterday 35 miles away and was trying to get them in School there.  I'm very happy with that.

My attorney is getting all of the info for the custody evaluation.

She was being nice because she needs me to work around her work schedule.   We figured out holiday break and she gave me a fairly decent offer so I took it and I think it's best for the kids.

Overall this was a defeat for her.  I just hope the rest goes good.

I hope so too for you.  Go the extra mile in the preparations for each of the upcoming hearing, have all bases covered, so if she throws you a curve ball, you are covered - this will give you the best chance of having a 'good' outcome from your perspective.

She has telegraphed her intent on moving the children to a different school system, so take precautions to prevent that in future hearings.  Request decision maker status.

I'm glad you were able to agree on an arrangement for the holidays.  Remember to keep all communication BIFF from this point forward.

Have a good holiday, be sure to do self-care and recharge.

SD

[mikejones75093]

Found this website shrink4men, wow, it's like they know her.  Talk about eye opening.  Everything from restraining orders to financial abuse, to posting about feeling unsafe, called her whole plan exact down to the words she used.

[kells76]

Hey, hope you and the kids were able to have some good time together at Christmas.

It's interesting you mention this:

Found this website shrink4men, wow, it's like they know her.  Talk about eye opening.  Everything from restraining orders to financial abuse, to posting about feeling unsafe, called her whole plan exact down to the words she used.

Way, way, way back in the day, before I knew about BPD or bpdfamily, I was confused about why my H's kids' mom was so full of blame and was acting so entitled to the kids. I stumbled on the same web site you did, and I had a similar experience: "That's her!", which felt very validating.

We all start somewhere on our journey of understanding BPD, and it's normal to be angry about the RO's, financial abuse, blame shifting, and total lack of care for how the kids are doing. What's important is to keep flowing on that journey, not to get stuck in anger and blame ourselves -- then we're no better than other blamers.

Take a look at our thread about shrink4men's reputation and let us know any thoughts you have.

[mikejones75093]

Hey, hope you and the kids were able to have some good time together at Christmas.

It's interesting you mention this:

Way, way, way back in the day, before I knew about BPD or bpdfamily, I was confused about why my H's kids' mom was so full of blame and was acting so entitled to the kids. I stumbled on the same web site you did, and I had a similar experience: "That's her!", which felt very validating.

We all start somewhere on our journey of understanding BPD, and it's normal to be angry about the RO's, financial abuse, blame shifting, and total lack of care for how the kids are doing. What's important is to keep flowing on that journey, not to get stuck in anger and blame ourselves -- then we're no better than other blamers.

Take a look at our thread about shrink4men's reputation and let us know any thoughts you have.

I'm not really angry, honestly that website helped me get over the anger.

For me it did an amazing job of explaining the why, which made it easier for me to say I need to move forward.

I went no contact and she started reaching out about random things that didn't matter, trying to blame.  I told her to please stop contacting me unless it had to do with the kids, which made her do even more.  Understanding the how and why just made it easier.

Understanding the reasons why she acts the way she does I haven't been getting caught in the middle of her BS.  Maybe it's what I needed to hear.

[SaltyDawg]

Mike Jones,

   Regarding Shrink4Men...

   I agree her videos (You Tube), her website / blog / articles, and Facebook all have been helpful.  On FB she posts Memes just like the neurodivergent community does - she is the only one who does this with these (claimed) credentials.  I find her opinions to be very abrasive and insensitive although quite accurate in 90% of what she says.  I also have used a couple of her articles with my own individual therapist, which was quite helpful.

   If you view some of her videos, she has multiple eye-rolls, and some pretty passive-aggressive statements.   She impulsively speaks her mind with no filter, much like a borderline does and has strongly alluded to emotional if not actual incest in some of her videos.  To me she is like a 'shock jock' of pop psychology and posts stuff intended to shock her intended audience to gain 'clients'.

   I did challenge her on one of her FB posts with push-back on what to do if your pwBPD knows she is messed up and is actively trying to fix the issue.  She asked one question, and then moved on to her next thread.  Much to my surprise, with the one post response, she did invite me to be one of her "top fans" a day later, when I didn't accept, she made the same request a 2nd time a few days later, I did NOT accept either request.

   Since the posting, this compelled me to do a background check, like I do for all mental health professionals I hire for either myself, or my family - I want to know who I am dealing with, and if they have had any disciplinary actions against them.  You would be surprised what you find since  many have their own issues.

   I did find her master's thesis, at a small Catholic school in Erie, PA; however, I was unable to find any PhD references, nor could I find any psychology license in any of the listed states for psychology after doing a quick Internet person finder search.

   Her videos/pics suggest that she hangs out/near NYC, so I searched those too along with NJ, CT, MA and several other states.  Her phone number is MA area code.

[SaltyDawg]

[No edit button, and the preview button is next to the post button, this needs to be fixed.]

So, to summarize, I find the information on Shrink4Men useful; however, I do put it into context against several other resources.  I always verify information from a reliable secondary source.  I have gotten invaluable information from those who are diagnosed as BPD on BPD, and how they think and process information to better understand the condition.  I can accurately predict their behaviors better than I can predict my own behaviors, Ms. T.J.P. has done something similar and has monetized it by appealing to the more primitive/primal emotions of a high conflict relationship.

My impression of Ms. T.J.P. outlook is a one-size-fits-all solution of, "you must get out of that relationship at all costs", even if it means burning all the bridges behind you, which I find more destructive than helpful.

Good luck, use many resources, and weigh them accordingly.  I have found the best advice for your situation in the "Splitting" and related books by Billy Eddy even though S4M/TJP has some nuggets too.

Take care, with self care.

SD

[mikejones75093]

So figure I'll give an update.

Tro temp hearing went decent.  50/50 custody, no child support, kids stay in same school which was huge because she was trying to move them away.

New years day cops show up to my house.  Apparently I don't feed my kids and they need to do a welfare check.   My 8 year old was texting my ex saying I don't feed them and and asking her to uber eats them fast food.  Ex didn't call me or reach out.  Young kids manipulative by nature trying to get fast food instead of eating what I made.  Cop laughed,  said he would not write a report and suggested I tell my lawyer.

I know I'm an idiot.  Kids start school ex asks to stay over to be near the kids and it turns into we are working it out.  I know she's going to cycle but she was so nice I went with it.  Lasted all of 4 weeks.  I'm a terrible person controlling and manipulative,  she leaves, goes complete no contact on me.  Tells her attorney she doesn't want the kids,  doesn't want any money, just give me everything and end it.  Her attorney calls mine and they are drawing up the paperwork, that lasted a week.  Now she wants her 50/50 custody.   That was Monday.

Kids come home from school today and tell me they got sent to the principals office but were not in trouble.  Someone with a badge wanted to talk to them about me and my driving problem.

This is just nuts.   Her ups and downs are getting worse.

[mikejones75093]

Tried to edit the post but couldn't figure it out.  It's drinking problem,  not driving.

[SaltyDawg]

DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT

with video, with audio, keeping all correspondence, and notes in a bound book or e-mailed to/from one of the free services like gmail/outlook(hotmail) as they are built to criminal standards for tracking date/time stamps and evidence tampering.

She is going into the realm of false accusations with two CPS visits, bad driving, you don't feed them, etc. so you need to do everything in your power to document how emtionally unstable ('crazy') she really is.

Hopefully her attorney's can see how 'crazy' she actually is and can work out an agreeable agreement with yours, have it ready, set, go; and when the iron is hot for her to sign it, get it sign, sealed, and delivered to you. - wishful thinking on my part.

Follow the advice of Bill Eddy's book in addition to your own attorney's - if there is a difference talk to your attorney until you are satisfied with your attorney's explanation or ask him to include a certain thing.

Take care, watch your back, as you are now her very malicious target of blame, and if you aren't careful, you will find one of her proverbial knives stuck in it.

SD

[Skip]

DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT

She is going into the realm of false accusations with two CPS visits, bad driving, you don't feed them, etc. so you need to do everything in your power to document how emtionally unstable ('crazy') she really is.

You do want to document bad behavior that is significant - don't bother with the the small things - nobody is going to care and it just dilutes the significant things. Ask your attorney what things matters to this judge.

There is another type of documentation that is important... the caring parenting of your children. Keep a diary and a photo journal of your parenting. Meals, events, Dr. appointments. get involved in their school activities.

Take a co-parenting class. If you've stopped drinking, you can get a breathalyzer service and it keeps evidentiary records on blood alcohol levels. A year costs about 2 hours of your attorney.

Don't over focus on her.

Document reasonable communications from you, with her. You can sign up with myfamily wizard (for the two of you) and communicate/coordinate co-parenting with her via this website. Courts accept those records.

Take a co-parenting class. Get off of Shrink for Men - that's just stoking the feeling of victimization. TP got started in this because her SO was divorced from a BPD. Step-coparents can be over-the-top resentful. We've seen that here.

Join a men's parenting group instead.

You're at 50/50. That's good. Keeping it is not all about proving that she ihass the issues. Prove that you are an exemplary dad.

First thing he said is, because you 2 adults can't figure this out now I have to deal with it.  

Read the room  

[EyesUp]

This:

You do want to document bad behavior that is significant - don't bother with the the small things - nobody is going to care and it just dilutes the significant things. Ask your attorney what things matters to this judge.

There is another type of documentation that is important... the caring parenting of your children. Keep a diary and a photo journal of your parenting. Meals, events, Dr. appointments. get involved in their school activities.

And this:

You're at 50/50. That's good. Keeping it is not all about proving that she ihass the issues. Prove that you are an exemplary dad.

Read the room  

Skip's post could be repackaged as "Divorcing your Disordered Spouse for Dummies" - When I was going through this, I had to read about a half of a dozen books and then boil it all down to get this.  What you have in these two comments is gold.

What I did:
Used an app called Evernote for journaling. Daily, concise entries.
Used Excel to track activities.  Again, super concise.
Used a separate Excel sheet to log past activities:
- extra curriculars
- doctor appointments
- school - teacher meetings, concerts, events, picnics
- kids' social stuff

All password protected, and addressed to my attorney.

My X was going for primary parent, the works, in a contested divorce.  She stated that she was the primary parent, that I traveled constantly for work, and was a non-participant in the kids' lives. 

The documentation made it easy to show my atty that my X's claims were false.  In turn, my atty was able to communicate to my X's atty - with great conviction - that our judge would not be impressed my X's claims.

Doing the documentation legwork helped to earn my atty's confidence. Ultimately, we settled and avoided prolonged/costly litigation.

My $0.02 - the documentation is necessary if you litigate - but might actually help you avoid the litigation. 

Don't tip your hand to your X re: documentation - treat it like a secret weapon. It's presently unclear how or when you will need to use this documentation.  But it's perfectly clear that it will be a benefit to have the documentation.

Final word to reinforce "concise" - write everything as if you're preparing to present it to the judge.  The busy, indifferent, inconvenienced, and perhaps slightly impatient judge...

Anything you can do now, to organize the documentation into a clear, concise format that can be easily scanned by a busy judge will be helpful.

The idea is:  If you ever have to present a journal or log, make it super easy to for the judge to, at a glance, conclude:  "If this is accurate, then clearly Mike is involved in the kids' activities."

Worst case, the judge passes you off to a GAL or some other evaluator - who may also want to review your documentation.

Medium case, the judge finds your documentation credible and moves forward.

Best case, your atty makes it clear to your stbx's atty that her claims are false, if not highly exaggerated - and that it's in her best interest to settle and avoid being embarrassed/exposed/rebuked in court.  Then use the next hearing to present the proposed settlement. 

The judge will be delighted to see that the two adults are working it out.

Hang in there. 

[mikejones75093]

DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT

with video, with audio, keeping all correspondence, and notes in a bound book or e-mailed to/from one of the free services like gmail/outlook(hotmail) as they are built to criminal standards for tracking date/time stamps and evidence tampering.

She is going into the realm of false accusations with two CPS visits, bad driving, you don't feed them, etc. so you need to do everything in your power to document how emtionally unstable ('crazy') she really is.

Hopefully her attorney's can see how 'crazy' she actually is and can work out an agreeable agreement with yours, have it ready, set, go; and when the iron is hot for her to sign it, get it sign, sealed, and delivered to you. - wishful thinking on my part.

Follow the advice of Bill Eddy's book in addition to your own attorney's - if there is a difference talk to your attorney until you are satisfied with your attorney's explanation or ask him to include a certain thing.

Take care, watch your back, as you are now her very malicious target of blame, and if you aren't careful, you will find one of her proverbial knives stuck in it.

SD

My attorney seems very competent,  very expensive so this sucks.

I was hoping when she said take everything we would get it done but she cycled quick.

I'm documenting everything, and I also have a large support network of family and friends that I'm always around, she has nobody.

Judge didn't order any alcohol monitoring but I voluntarily paid to be peth tested and about to do it again.

Hoping maybe the next time she cycles down we can send the decree over and get it signed.

Her attorney has to know she's crazy right?  Constantly at war with blaming, yet has no supporting documentation.

She cop that came by for the welfare check thought it was a joke, told me to get an attorney if I didn't have one, and did not fill out a report to give them anything.

She's just nuts

[SaltyDawg]

I'm documenting everything, and I also have a large support network of family and friends that I'm always around, she has nobody.

Judge didn't order any alcohol monitoring but I voluntarily paid to be peth tested and about to do it again.

Hoping maybe the next time she cycles down we can send the decree over and get it signed.

Her attorney has to know she's crazy right?  Constantly at war with blaming, yet has no supporting documentation.

[...]

She's just nuts

Being mindful I have not yet experienced a divorce; however, I am preparing for one if it comes to that, I think incorporating both Skip's & Eyes Up's suggestions would be beneficial to you as they are speaking from experience, I am not.  Perhaps a hybrid where you have sticky arrows pointing to the really bad and nutty stuff she is doing.

Personally I would focus on alienating behaviors, false allegations, and all of the activities you do with your children to show how good of a dad you are using BIFF style entries:

1430 Picked child 1 up from school
1445 Brought child 1 to pediatrician appointment
1534 Arranged playdate for child 1 w/ child friend name
1712 Transported children from playdate home
1730 Prepared & ate meal together
xxxx etc.

2230 ex violated TRO, pounded on door, accusing me of child abuse 911 called in response
2243 first unit arrived, approached enraged wife outside of home
2244 2nd unit arrived, opened door for 2nd unit, commenced interview
2244 Asked child 1 to go inside, and wait reading a book/device/etc.
....
0027 Last unit leaves, close and lock door, comfort child 2, make sure child 1 is sleeping peacefully.

When 911 is called, document time of arrival, behaviors, time of arrest, time of departure, when authorities are involved document everything, video if you can, otherwise it will be he said/she said.  Also note key points of all conversations, use recording device if points are hazy, make sure what you write matches recording devices, the police have body cams for this very reason.

I have homeland security experience, and have been involved in 'other' incidents, and this is the type of entries they are looking for in a high conflict situation.  Have an arrow on all incidents involving any enforcement agency.  Be on best behavior at all times, as anything bad recorded can and will be used against you.

Good luck & Take Care

[ForeverDad]

New years day cops show up to my house..  Cop laughed, said he would not write a report and suggested I tell my lawyer.

Am I missing something here?  Cop agreed the call handed to him had no basis, yet he didn't want to document it in a report?  Why wouldn't you have asked him to write a report?

What benefit is a police report, assuming it would be favorable for you?  The reality is that police, counselors, children's services, school, etc are typically viewed as neutral professionals, with concern for the children's best interests.  By default they're trusted by the court.  You?  You're just one of the parents and the first inclination of the court is that you're untrained, unlicensed, an amateur, likely to spout unsupported claims (hearsay).

All I'm saying is that this might have been a golden opportunity to get a report stating that your kids really are getting fed well, or at least decently.  Ask your lawyer about this.  I hope you at least got the officer's name or number, if needed later.

I recall at least one time when my ex was playing games with an exchange and an officer responded... I asked for a report.  Another time when an officer was at my home when ex contested my position on a failed exchange.  I followed up to get the report, it was abysmal, there were check marks in the "responded" and "resolved" columns.  It was basically meaningless.

[mikejones75093]

Am I missing something here?  Cop agreed the call handed to him had no basis, yet he didn't want to document it in a report?  Why wouldn't you have asked him to write a report?

What benefit is a police report, assuming it would be favorable for you?  The reality is that police, counselors, children's services, school, etc are typically viewed as neutral professionals, with concern for the children's best interests.  By default they're trusted by the court.  You?  You're just one of the parents and the first inclination of the court is that you're untrained, unlicensed, an amateur, likely to spout unsupported claims (hearsay).

All I'm saying is that this might have been a golden opportunity to get a report stating that your kids really are getting fed well, or at least decently.  Ask your lawyer about this.  I hope you at least got the officer's name or number, if needed later.

I recall at least one time when my ex was playing games with an exchange and an officer responded... I asked for a report.  Another time when an officer was at my home when ex contested my position on a failed exchange.  I followed up to get the report, it was abysmal, there were check marks in the "responded" and "resolved" columns.  It was basically meaningless.

Cop was making it out like a report would be good for them.   He did have to log the call, which I requested a copy from freedom of information act,  cops suggestion, and he basically updated the call saying no issue kids happy and healthy.

On another note I went through my daughter's phone for the first time.   My estranged spouse got her the phone for Christmas.   The alienation is real.  I don't think my daughter likes me or my family.  Nothing but talking bad about us to my spouse and her supporting those feelings.   The things she says sound just like my spouse.  Going to have to figure this out.  Daughter is innocent but I have to break this and have no clue what to say.

[Notwendy]

This is a boundary issue. It's also Karpman triangle dynamics. She's made your D her confidant and triangulating. My BPD mother did that too when I was a teen- say things one shouldn't be sharing with a teen. I

It's hard to know if your wife's intent is to harm you or to just make herself feel better but either way- this isn't an appropriate discussion with a teen.

What I can recall is that it did give me a sense of adulthood as a teen and teens want to have that "adulthood" but it's actually parentification. Teens also get angry at their parents and at times don't like their parents- but ideally parents are aligned and don't triangulate- so the teen can be angry-but at both of them.

Parental alienation is a serious situation. I don't know much about that but I do know that whatever BPD mother said to me about my father didn't turn me against him.

IMHO, I would not tell your D you went through her phone. I think she'd be very angry about that. She may have been venting to your wife in the moment. She may not "like" you in the moment. Teens can be like that. Focus on consistency and trust with her- try to do things together if she will do that- connect with her interests if you can. Whatever she is feeling in the moment- let her know you love her unconditionally. She's seen your behavior and also her BPD mother's behavior- she may not understand it well at her age.

[SaltyDawg]

On another note I went through my daughter's phone for the first time.   My estranged spouse got her the phone for Christmas.   The alienation is real.  I don't think my daughter likes me or my family.  Nothing but talking bad about us to my spouse and her supporting those feelings.   The things she says sound just like my spouse.  Going to have to figure this out.  Daughter is innocent but I have to break this and have no clue what to say.

Document the alienation.  If you can, take photos where your wife is disparaging you towards your daughter.  Document it all, but only keep the 3 worst for your attorney to share with the court as you want to limit costs, and you will have more examples, if you are asked.

[EyesUp]

IMHO, I would not tell your D you went through her phone. I think she'd be very angry about that. She may have been venting to your wife in the moment. She may not "like" you in the moment. Teens can be like that. Focus on consistency and trust with her- try to do things together if she will do that- connect with her interests if you can. Whatever she is feeling in the moment- let her know you love her unconditionally. She's seen your behavior and also her BPD mother's behavior- she may not understand it well at her age.

This is super key.

I have the same dynamic with my uBPDxw - the parentification and now alienation had been picking up steam, but the thing that really kicked the alienation into high gear was my daughter found out that I looked through her phone.  And I actually provided the phone, pay for the plan, and have a device agreement with my daughter that specifically states that mom and dad have access to her phone.  She still felt completely betrayed.

I don't have any prescriptive suggestions here, other than be very, very careful with what and how you speak with your daughter about this - if at all.  Also, expect that if you broach the topic with her mother, it will be conveyed to your daughter.

Unfortunately this is a situation where it's easier to say what not to do than what to do.