Complex feeling

[Depression = 72% of members]

Since the recent blow up between my uBPD mother and I due to her request (demand really) for green card sponsorship, I’ve been NC with her at least fo a few weeks now. I still talk to my dad.

If you’ve been following my story, over the course of a few weeks, she’s been incessantly calling me and texting me. It has been a combination of different messages:

- attacking me and calling me an ungrateful daughter
- updates about her eye surgery and health status that I didn’t even ask for
- asking me for money

The last two are said in a “nice tone.” In her most recent message, she said this:

“Can we talk on video this Christmas with you and (my daughter’s name)? I miss the way she laughs every time I make a joke. Pls don’t be mad at me anymore because it’s emotionally affecting me. I want to be happy this Christmas, so pls don’t be mad at me anymore. I love you both and let’s make Christmas and your birthdays amazing! Also, forgiveness is a gift from the heart, it’s from God. ❤️

[zanyapple]

Since the recent blow up between my uBPD mother and I due to her request (demand really) for green card sponsorship, I’ve been NC with her at least fo a few weeks now. I still talk to my dad.

If you’ve been following my story, over the course of a few weeks, she’s been incessantly calling me and texting me. It has been a combination of different messages:

- attacking me and calling me an ungrateful daughter
- updates about her eye surgery and health status that I didn’t even ask for
- asking me for money

The last two are said in a “nice tone.” In her most recent message, she said this:

“Can we talk on video this Christmas with you and (my daughter’s name)? I miss the way she laughs every time I make a joke. Pls don’t be mad at me anymore because it’s emotionally affecting me. I want to be happy this Christmas, so pls don’t be mad at me anymore. I love you both and let’s make Christmas and your birthdays amazing! Also, forgiveness is a gift from the heart, it’s from God. ❤️

[zanyapple]

Looks like the rest of my message didn’t get posted, so adding this here:

What are your thoughts about her message above?

Many times, I’ve told her that I’m not talking to her because it stresses me out. I feel more exhausted than mad, like I’ve given up. But for some reason, this doesn’t register.

Surprisingly though, I don’t feel sad about her messages anymore. I used to feel sad and I used to cry every time we have an argument, but for some reason, I feel like a combination of anger and numbness. Does that even make sense? It still stresses me out because any interaction with her is unpleasant, but I feel like, I’ll be ok if/when she passes. Part of me is telling me that maybe I’ve improved since interactions with her don’t make me cry anymore, but is anger/numbness even better?

Does this even make sense?

[Notwendy]

for

“Can we talk on video this Christmas with you and (my daughter’s name)? I miss the way she laughs every time I make a joke. Pls don’t be mad at me anymore because it’s emotionally affecting me. I want to be happy this Christmas, so pls don’t be mad at me anymore. I love you both and let’s make Christmas and your birthdays amazing! Also, forgiveness is a gift from the heart, it’s from God. ❤️

Did this message make you cringe a bit? I did when I read it. It is all about what you need to do to make her feel better. She wants your D to laugh at her jokes, your being angry emotionally affects her. She wants to be happy. Also--- and here's the statement - you need to forgive her.

To be fair to her- this is who she is and this is all she knows- and it is probably a family pattern to respond to these requests to make her feel better. It's not your job to take care of her feelings though. It's also not your D's job. My BPD mother does this with my kids too.

There's nothing especially "wrong" with wanting to video chat on Christmas- and nothing wrong with calling Grandma on Christmas.  I think most parents want to have contact with their children and grandchildren at Christmas. This is why we tend to go along with them- there's a normality to the requests, but then, when we do them, we feel a sense of "ickyness" - because we are also feeling obligation. FOG due to the nature of them. We feel obligated to "call Grandma" rather than just wanting to call Grandma because it's a nice thing to do and we want to wish her a happy Christmas.

I recall getting an email from my father when I began to have boundaries with my mother. (and she didn't like it). It said "I just want us to be a happy family again". How were we a happy family when BPD mother was emotionally and verbally abusing us? Basically it meant I had upset BPD mother and needed to not upset her.

So what to do? It's your choice as to what to do. I usually call my mother on holidays and her birthday but I am not NC- I am LC with her. LC meaning less emotion as I do have to contact her more frequently with her being elderly and needing assistance. But emotionally- I avoid emotional topics. The decision to call her on a holiday or birthday is based on my own reasons- more about doing it because I choose to and also since she's connected to other family members, being NC with her would be impractical.

It's important to not have expectations that she's going to be different.  While I have pointed out certain parts of the email she sent- it's not about expecting her to be different- it's to highlight that this is how she is, how she thinks, and how she relates to people. She doesn't have the capacity to do otherwise.

If NC is your choice, then stick to your boundaries. You can choose what you wish to do.

[zanyapple]

Did this message make you cringe a bit? I did when I read it. It is all about what you need to do to make her feel better. She wants your D to laugh at her jokes, your being angry emotionally affects her. She wants to be happy. Also--- and here's the statement - you need to forgive her.

To be fair to her- this is who she is and this is all she knows- and it is probably a family pattern to respond to these requests to make her feel better. It's not your job to take care of her feelings though. It's also not your D's job. My BPD mother does this with my kids too.

Yes, it did. I don't feel sorry for her at all. In the past, I'm pretty sure this message would've touched me and maybe would've made me cry, but now, it just sounds manipulative and fake.

I recall getting an email from my father when I began to have boundaries with my mother. (and she didn't like it). It said "I just want us to be a happy family again". How were we a happy family when BPD mother was emotionally and verbally abusing us? Basically it meant I had upset BPD mother and needed to not upset her.

Wow, this sounds so familiar. She said something like this before. Something like, "We were so happy before. I remember us going to LA and we laughed a lot. Now what happened? You used to be a good daughter."

So cringey. Yes, there were "happy" moments before, but these were times when my dad and I did not dare to go against her.

What would you recommend? I'm on the fence about responding. Part of me wants to respond saying that - "Maybe we'll (voice) call, but I want her to keep in mind that she is responsible for her own happiness. An unhappy person will always find reasons to be unhappy about. She has always been this way even before she found out of her invalid marriage or before she had severe vision loss on one eye. Life always has problems and it will always be unfair, but we just need to learn how to play the cards that we're dealt with." But then again, as always, this will fall on deaf ears.

I don't think I'm going full NC. I'm going LC, but I only plan on interacting with her if there is a need... so really, really LC. Should I not respond then and just wait to call on Christmas Day? I don't plan on video calling with her though. I plan on calling my dad (his phone doesn't have a video option) and have my daughter speak to them, and I'll probably just say "Merry Christmas" real quick, but I plan on keeping it short.

[Tangled mangled]

The last two are said in a “nice tone.” In her most recent message, she said this:

“Can we talk on video this Christmas with you and (my daughter’s name)? I miss the way she laughs every time I make a joke. Pls don’t be mad at me anymore because it’s emotionally affecting me. I want to be happy this Christmas, so pls don’t be mad at me anymore. I love you both and let’s make Christmas and your birthdays amazing! Also, forgiveness is a gift from the heart, it’s from God. ❤️

The text from your mum sounds like it was written by mine. It’s always somebody’s fault that she can’t be happy and it seems it’s our job as daughters to keep them happy…

Now on your part: sounds like you are seeking permission to do what’s right for you. You have worked it out, the relationship with your mother is toxic to say the least. You are enmeshed and trauma bonded.
The question to answer to yourself is What will give you the most amount of peace. It’s hard going LC/NC with a parent. I’m 2 years NC but was tempted to call her last week, so I can imagine how difficult it is for you, since you have only recently considered LC.
What’s your traumatised inner child saying to you? Call your mum or ignore her text?
My mum also used the excuse of needing to chat with my children as a means to gain access to me.
Take care of yourself, you’re got this.

[Methuen]

Zanyapple,

We were so happy before. I remember us going to LA and we laughed a lot. Now what happened? You used to be a good daughter."

My mother has said these exact words in the past, so reading it here cut me to the core.

It happens when we don’t take care of them (or their feelings) the way they have trained us to.  That’s their narcissism at play.  Only they have needs and feelings - and they can’t see past their own needs (including feelings) to imagine that we might have needs, and maybe “caring” flows in both directions?

If we aren’t doing what they want us to do, we are bad daughters…

Am I mistaken in thinking this is an example of emotional incest?  We were all raised to take care of mom and her feelings and tiptoe around her…and we did. Except it’s a role reversal because mothers are usually nurturing the children, not the other way around.  No wonder we all have an inner child that’s struggling and doesn’t feel like she is “enough “! Anybody relate?

So when we change the game and suddenly start taking care of our own needs instead of catering to their needs first(in your case green card sponsorship), we become “bad daughters”.  My mother screamed at me that I was selfish for coming out of retirement to return to work, because in her words “it was my job to take care of her in her old age when she really needed me”.  I was not supposed to have any needs or reasons to return to work that superceded her need to have me as her servant at her service.

Working gives me a boundary from her.  My need was for space from the FoG and ickiness and her rages and entitlement. She pushed hard against my return to work.

Your mom is pushing hard too when she says “you used to be a good daughter”.

She’s using your goodness and kindness to guilt you into doing what she wants.  That’s manipulation. 

I don't think I'm going full NC. I'm going LC, but I only plan on interacting with her if there is a need... so really, really LC. Should I not respond then and just wait to call on Christmas Day? I don't plan on video calling with her though. I plan on calling my dad (his phone doesn't have a video option) and have my daughter speak to them, and I'll probably just say "Merry Christmas" real quick, but I plan on keeping it short.

This plan seems reasonable and keeps your options open.  If you are feeling strong on Xmas day you can go ahead with the call.  If you are not feeling strong, you are not obligated and can perhaps do it on another day.  It gives you some control back.

[livednlearned]

I don’t feel sad about her messages anymore. I used to feel sad and I used to cry every time we have an argument, but for some reason, I feel like a combination of anger and numbness. Does that even make sense? It still stresses me out because any interaction with her is unpleasant, but I feel like, I’ll be ok if/when she passes. Part of me is telling me that maybe I’ve improved since interactions with her don’t make me cry anymore, but is anger/numbness even better?

Does this even make sense?

This makes a lot of sense to me.

You are describing how I feel about my mother.

It took years but eventually I was able to decode what was happening and change how I responded. My mother often said about me as a child that I lacked guile (cunning intelligence).

Only well into my 40s did I realize how much she played me.

We don't have much in common and she loves to be center of attention and talk about herself so very quickly it is a chore to be around her. When she perceived she lost my attention, she would wind me up in ways that went over my head.

A therapist helped me see the ways my mother liked to hooked me. I had to learn how to have verbal and non-verbal boundaries to protect myself and that's 99 percent of our relationship now. I decipher what she is up to and find ways to keep myself safe. Her primary move was to use me to defend her or stand up for her or engage in conflict on her behalf. She now uses my father to do this so I have to watch for this as a pair working together. It would never occur to my father that she would have the capacity so I'm on my own navigating their dynamic.

You mention feeling numb. You've given me something to think about -- I noticed when I went NC that there was an emotional cost attached. I didn't realize until later that I had numbed emotions to cope with the loss. I've tried to address that because shutting down some feelings did shut down others and probably contributed to depression that I took meds for until heading back into therapy and doing some somatic experiencing work.

I do still feel somewhat numb when I engage with my family, and sometimes I end up with muscle spasms or migraines as a result of the stress. But I also think there is something in the numbing that is healthy detachment. There are times when I see the moves and have a healthy response that feels like I'm taking good care of myself in a skilled and self-respecting way.

I'm trying to think how I would respond if my mother sent a message like that.

"Let's chat on Christmas. I'll call at x o'clock."

Less is often more.

The more you say, the more material there is to argue with or defy or manipulate or protest or create drama about.

If you want to wait and see how you feel on Christmas, that's ok too.

I often found that big sweeping changes were too emotionally taxing so tended to lean toward incremental changes. Changing behaviors can stir up powerful feelings and I didn't want to traumatize myself with my own feelings