No / limited contact with BPD?

[Grvdin]

Hi, my undiagnosed BPD ex and I broke up last week, following the standard push, pull - this is the third time we’ve broken up, each time he has taken a while to ‘warm up’, finally puts his walls down and gets close and then pulls away. Each time, he starts following new girls on Instagram. This time, I ended things with him as he was pulling away and following new girls. Every time, he has also ‘moved on’ he says, within days and sleeping with the next girl that same week.

Since our breakup last week, I’ve asked him a couple of times to get my things, which he says he’ll drop them off but always has an excuse not to. I’ve offered to pick them up and also offered for mutual friends too. He said no, he’ll just drop them off. I assumed this was a good sign, ie he’s keeping them for an ‘in’ or excuse to see me, but he’s been cold, saying he’s done with us and doesn’t want to talk anymore. I’ve just left it alone.

Today I had to message him, and he was super responsive, not only replying but asking questions and keeping the conversation going. I talked for a little bit but didn’t push for a conversation and left it at that.

What do I do now? I was hoping to give him space and ask again to get my things. He’ll drop them off and we’ll see eachother, which is usually what resets the cycle. I’m just not sure how long I should leave it, or if I’m sending the wrong message by ending our conversations.

I want us to get back together, and yes the reasons we broke up are no longer reasons.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[once removed]

there are two things happening that are at odds with trying to reconcile a relationship.

the first is that youre trying to get your belongings back. that tends to signal the finality of a relationship. it is also something that a lot of us have experience with our partners balking at.

the second is that you broke up with him. reconciling the relationship is sort of the ball in your court.

having said that, this is the third breakup. each breakup does increasing successive damage to the relationship.

at this point, its important to take a hard look at why the relationship isnt working, whether or not it can work, and if it can work, what its going to take to get there.

Each time, he starts following new girls on Instagram. This time, I ended things with him as he was pulling away and following new girls.

this, among other things, have been a recurring point of tension (and breakup) for you in your relationship from the start.

i would suggest that it will continue to be.

breaking up with someone to try to change them, or get them to agree with us on how we conduct our relationships is messy, and doesnt work in the long term.

so the question is, how do you reconcile a relationship if you each have two different positions on something this important to you?

[PhoenixKnight]

Hi, I hope you are well. Break ups are always tough, especially when triangulation is involved. For you to take the step to end the relationship it must have been difficult for you.

I’m a little bit confused by your post. My advice to anyone who has ended a relationship and doesn’t want it to end would be the one to initiate any reconciliation. Otherwise it could be seen as a manipulation to get an outcome out of the other person.

You have stated that the issues which caused you to leave are no longer in play, what does that mean exactly? A week is a relatively short time for someone to change their behaviours, especially if you are not in that relationship anymore. Is it a circumstance which has changed?

I think the main thing you need to consider is whether the relationship you had is one you truly want to be in, or whether you simply miss him and his company? Push/pull is a trademark of a BPD relationship and it is unlikely to change without some kind of intervention. My ex partner did it with me for 3.5 years, with each ‘return’ it was coupled with the promise of understanding what she wants now and she will never do it again. She did, a lot. Her attachment style wouldn’t let her, she was always on the look out for danger in the relationship (often entirely fabricated).

If his behaviour with regard to other women (and the need to go out and find (effectively) a replacement) with each break up is a boundary for you, I would seriously think about that. Personally I could not entertain someone who did that, but only you know how that feels and if this is acceptable.

If after consideration you do want to get back together, others may disagree, but I think you need to be honest with him and say this. Set your boundaries and see if this is something you both can work with. You are both free to see if this suits you. It would be easy to just say ‘move on’, which may actually be for the best long term, but we don’t know the relationship and we don’t know issues. This is something you need to decide for yourself.

I hope things work out for you as you desire

[Grvdin]

there are two things happening that are at odds with trying to reconcile a relationship.

the first is that youre trying to get your belongings back. that tends to signal the finality of a relationship. it is also something that a lot of us have experience with our partners balking at.

I think.. I didn't want the relationship to end. In hindsight, asking for my belongings was a way for me to maintain some level of control I suppose, and to make him see that I am serious about leaving (I realize this is not healthy, however last time I told him I was prepared to leave is when he actually committed to a relationship).

the second is that you broke up with him. reconciling the relationship is sort of the ball in your court.

I initiated it - funnily enough, when we spoke on the phone he told me about some issues and said "this is why I'm breaking up with you". So I think in his mind, he broke up with me.

having said that, this is the third breakup. each breakup does increasing successive damage to the relationship.

at this point, its important to take a hard look at why the relationship isnt working, whether or not it can work, and if it can work, what its going to take to get there.

this, among other things, have been a recurring point of tension (and breakup) for you in your relationship from the start.

i would suggest that it will continue to be.

breaking up with someone to try to change them, or get them to agree with us on how we conduct our relationships is messy, and doesnt work in the long term.

so the question is, how do you reconcile a relationship if you each have two different positions on something this important to you?

Thank you.. I guess this is where I'm stuck. I didn't break up with him to 'change' him per se, it was moreso that this has happened before and I didn't want to go through the process the same as the last two times. I guess I thought if I handled it differently this time, by being the one to walk away first, maybe the outcome would be different?

We've never spoken about the issue. It's not an issue while we're together, in fact when he asked me to be his girlfriend, he actually told me that he would delete every girl he's met online and unfollow all the models and girls from his IG (and he did). I didn't ask and never brought it up again.

I realize going back to the same thing with no change will never work. At the time, I really was prepared to walk away from the relationship. But we've had some time apart, and I miss him. Since we broke up, I've been doing more research into ways to validate him that make sense to him, I've looked at the tools here on this website as well as others and compiled a list of books through my research that people have suggested. In this time, I've also been working on myself - I'm back at the gym, and focusing on my relationships with my friends, my family and myself. I am also in therapy and the last we spoke about it, he wasn't against therapy. I guess my hope is that we reconcile and I can help him into therapy.

It hurts my heart that he might be hurting too, and that he might think that I'm abandoning him. The hardest part is that I don't know if this is what he truly wants, or if he's pushing me away as a subconscious test to see if I'll stay, or as a way to protect himself, and not actually a reflection of what he wants.

That's where I'm stuck and I guess, why I'm here. I've been scrolling through these forums, reddit, Quora every day trying to get some insight. From what I can understand, it's possible that we are getting close, and he's panicking that I'll leave him, he's not good enough etc, and so he starts searching for validation outside of us. I've just recently (post breakup) learned that I may have been validating him in ways that make sense to me, but not necessarily to him. I believe he leaves and finds someone 'safe', as in someone he has no emotional attachment to, a dynamic he is in control of and therefore one that does not trigger his fear of abandonment.

I will add that when we met, he was extremely depressed, unemployed and struggling with substance abuse. Lately he has been telling me that he's been really happy and I'm worried that he'll go back to what he knows.

Thank you for reading and for your reply. I am also sorry for my reply - I don't think I've done this correctly!

[Grvdin]

Hi, I hope you are well. Break ups are always tough, especially when triangulation is involved. For you to take the step to end the relationship it must have been difficult for you.

I’m a little bit confused by your post. My advice to anyone who has ended a relationship and doesn’t want it to end would be the one to initiate any reconciliation. Otherwise it could be seen as a manipulation to get an outcome out of the other person.

Thank you for your reply. Sorry if I'm misreading.. Are you saying it's up to him or I to initiate reconciliation? 

You have stated that the issues which caused you to leave are no longer in play, what does that mean exactly? A week is a relatively short time for someone to change their behaviours, especially if you are not in that relationship anymore. Is it a circumstance which has changed?

We had a miscarriage in December, and I also started a new type of birth control. The hormones from both of these things combined were causing issues in that I was being extremely clingy, anxious, insecure, volatile and dependent on him and he really struggles with being relied on to that extent. Since the break up and some time has passed, my hormones are back to normal and I've been doing work inside and outside of therapy to self-regulate my hormones and emotions. I also realized (only this week) that the way I've been validating him is probably not the way that he is seeking validation, and I've also been learning the 'tools'.

I think the main thing you need to consider is whether the relationship you had is one you truly want to be in, or whether you simply miss him and his company? Push/pull is a trademark of a BPD relationship and it is unlikely to change without some kind of intervention. My ex partner did it with me for 3.5 years, with each ‘return’ it was coupled with the promise of understanding what she wants now and she will never do it again. She did, a lot. Her attachment style wouldn’t let her, she was always on the look out for danger in the relationship (often entirely fabricated).

I think it's a bit of both. I miss his company, but I miss him as a person, the deep conversations, mutual affection.. I try to be realistic and not want him for his potential, but honestly I think without the push/pull I would be happy in this relationship. He's not entirely against therapy and I'm hoping if I can encourage/support him, plus use what I've learned, we can work towards something healthier. He also responds pretty well to boundaries, and when he's not 'splitting', he communicates really well and he listens (i.e. if I ask him to do/not to something, I don't need to ask again - he's very attentive). It sounds like this is something your ex didn't respond to? How did you reconcile after each time, and at what point did you decide it wasn't worth chasing?

If his behaviour with regard to other women (and the need to go out and find (effectively) a replacement) with each break up is a boundary for you, I would seriously think about that. Personally I could not entertain someone who did that, but only you know how that feels and if this is acceptable.

I agree - this is just not something we've spoken about I suppose. After the first 'break up', I had no idea about BPD or the push/pull cycle, and after the second I thought our relationship was actually over. Both of these times I assume he felt the same, hence the moving on (or attempting to). I don't think it's to spite me or even because he doesn't care, I think it's to fill a void and get the validation he is constantly seeking. I know after the first girl he actually did sleep with, he felt worse about himself after. I guess we've never spoken about it because I didn't realize it was a pattern. But, I think if we spoke about it, that might definitely help. As I said, he's very attentive and good at communicating. The issue is when he splits, he truly believes we are done and I'm not sure this is a boundary he would maintain during a breakup. It's also not something I'm willing to negotiate (after a discussion, obviously).

If after consideration you do want to get back together, others may disagree, but I think you need to be honest with him and say this. Set your boundaries and see if this is something you both can work with. You are both free to see if this suits you. It would be easy to just say ‘move on’, which may actually be for the best long term, but we don’t know the relationship and we don’t know issues. This is something you need to decide for yourself.

I hope things work out for you as you desire

Thank you. I think I want to get back together. I just don't know how. I've decided, if he's willing, I'd try again, given the changes I've mentioned above, plus obviously more communication and boundaries. I just don't know how to get this to him and get him on board if he is genuinely pulling away for self preservation. I've done a lot of reading and as far as I can tell, they don't respond super well to no contact (he is, as most BPD are, very 'out of sight, out of mind) so I am trying low contact. We spoke via text earlier this week, it was positive and he was engaged, responsive, even asking questions and continuing the conversation. I ended it though (thinking it would help to give him space), and then I messaged him again a few days later, got a very blunt reply and then no further response. I am assuming this is because I had been the one to end it the last few times.

The last 'hope' I have is that he still has my stuff and I his. We will see eachother soon, and this is usually a good thing because when he sees me, I think some of his feelings come back.

Any advice?

Ps, sorry for my reply. I'm new here and not sure how these boards work!!

[PhoenixKnight]

From your replies you seem to be doing the right things in learning about the condition and also working on yourself. You should be proud of that.

It sounds as though you have thought about this and believe the relationship is something you want. You have acknowledged some of your own faults and want to remedy them. This is commendable. The only thing I would say is tread carefully when looking at reason for your break up. The likelihood is both of you needed to learn and choose more wisely, so don’t fall foul of taking on all the blame, just to get him back. I did that on one of my break ups as I was hurting so much. This just led to her feeling I was the problem and the next recycle was her in a position of ‘power’ and me doing waaay too much accommodating of her and her needs. It was bliss for a month, but then demands got (even more) unrealistic. Ensure if you do progress, you do it as a team.

I believe you should initiate the reconciliation. You left him and he will be hurting (one would expect). He may be angry for the pain you’ve caused and seek to punish you, or he may welcome you back with open arms. Unless you pose the question, you may never know. From what you have written, he does have a lot of good qualities, so reach out.

In my situation I tended to get contact ‘testing the water’ (3 months was the longest gap). We would meet up and she would tell me all you want to hear as a jilted ex. Only on one occasion did I chase her, but of our multiple break ups, they were always instigated by her. My view was very much ‘this was her decision, she needs to fix it’. In fairness to her, she generally did.

The most recent break up became final when she left in the night after I told her daughter she could not have another bar of my chocolate (she had eaten 3, and I had agreement with the daughter not to ask for another). My partner undermined me and told her daughter she could have it and I was being ‘childish’. I told her I couldn’t care less about the chocolate, it was the principal in that I had set a boundary. When she started calling me ‘pathetic’ in front of the 6 year old I got up from the table and said I wasn’t having this conversation. As I walked off she started trying to kick me out the house (which is mine). I refused and said I’d see her later when she had calmed down. When I came home she was gone. At that point I knew I couldn’t carry on with this. She had been disregulated for a while, and her constant bouts of depression and criticism were making me ill. I felt pain, but more relief. The fact I felt relief (which is still the overarching feeling 2 months later) tells me I need to keep pushing through with breaking the trauma bond.

Over the last 2 months neither one of us has pushed for reconciliation, although she texts me and makes excuses to come to the house every week or so to collect things. We are amicable, but I think we’re both just tired. We didn’t go a week without some kind of issue or fight. It was always something I’d done (or not done). I ran myself into the floor looking after her and her daughter, but nothing was ever really appreciated. It all felt very one-sided.

[Grvdin]

From your replies you seem to be doing the right things in learning about the condition and also working on yourself. You should be proud of that.

It sounds as though you have thought about this and believe the relationship is something you want. You have acknowledged some of your own faults and want to remedy them. This is commendable. The only thing I would say is tread carefully when looking at reason for your break up. The likelihood is both of you needed to learn and choose more wisely, so don’t fall foul of taking on all the blame, just to get him back. I did that on one of my break ups as I was hurting so much. This just led to her feeling I was the problem and the next recycle was her in a position of ‘power’ and me doing waaay too much accommodating of her and her needs. It was bliss for a month, but then demands got (even more) unrealistic. Ensure if you do progress, you do it as a team.

Thank you for this. I do feel mostly at fault, however I also feel like in this and previous breakups, the reasons he has for the breakup are things he doesn't communicate until it's already over. I think if we were to get back together, it's definitely a discussion we can have - when he's calm and rational, he's very receptive. What you've described here seems pretty common though!

I believe you should initiate the reconciliation. You left him and he will be hurting (one would expect). He may be angry for the pain you’ve caused and seek to punish you, or he may welcome you back with open arms. Unless you pose the question, you may never know. From what you have written, he does have a lot of good qualities, so reach out. 

I agree, but I'm not sure how to initiate. In the past, I have sent him a heartfelt apology which he ignored. This time, I've been in contact with him a few times about things we need to talk about (i.e. our stuff), sometimes he's great and responsive and engaged in the conversation, even keeps it going, asks questions etc. Other times he doesn't respond or responds bluntly. I assume this is more to do with who else is or isn't available to him at the time, and less to do with me and his feelings towards me. We will need to see each other at some point soon as we have things of each others. He wants to come to my house for that (he loves my house?), and I'm hoping to use this as an opportunity to test the waters and re-engage in at least a friendship. If I'm honest though, I've been pushing it back to both give him some time to maybe miss me, but also to get myself to a better place mentally/emotionally and prepare for either outcome.

In my situation I tended to get contact ‘testing the water’ (3 months was the longest gap). We would meet up and she would tell me all you want to hear as a jilted ex. Only on one occasion did I chase her, but of our multiple break ups, they were always instigated by her. My view was very much ‘this was her decision, she needs to fix it’. In fairness to her, she generally did. 

This seems to be common too, and that opinion does make sense (she ended it so she can fix it). He isn't the type to reach out (or maybe I've just not given him the time or space to), but he's very much of the opinion that if it's not working it can't be fixed when he's in this kind of break-up state.

The most recent break up became final when she left in the night after I told her daughter she could not have another bar of my chocolate (she had eaten 3, and I had agreement with the daughter not to ask for another). My partner undermined me and told her daughter she could have it and I was being ‘childish’. I told her I couldn’t care less about the chocolate, it was the principal in that I had set a boundary. When she started calling me ‘pathetic’ in front of the 6 year old I got up from the table and said I wasn’t having this conversation. As I walked off she started trying to kick me out the house (which is mine). I refused and said I’d see her later when she had calmed down. When I came home she was gone. At that point I knew I couldn’t carry on with this. She had been disregulated for a while, and her constant bouts of depression and criticism were making me ill. I felt pain, but more relief. The fact I felt relief (which is still the overarching feeling 2 months later) tells me I need to keep pushing through with breaking the trauma bond.

Over the last 2 months neither one of us has pushed for reconciliation, although she texts me and makes excuses to come to the house every week or so to collect things. We are amicable, but I think we’re both just tired. We didn’t go a week without some kind of issue or fight. It was always something I’d done (or not done). I ran myself into the floor looking after her and her daughter, but nothing was ever really appreciated. It all felt very one-sided.

I'm really sorry to hear this. As hard as it is, and as much as it sucks, you did the right thing. However small, a boundary is still a boundary and it just shows a lack of respect for you, BPD or not. Honestly, after our breakup he mentioned he felt relief. That hurt me a lot until I realized I did, too.  Not relief that it's over but more so relief that I can step away and ground myself. How are you doing now? Do you think it would help you to cut her off completely?

[PhoenixKnight]

Whilst I am often critical of my ex partner, the way she did reconcile with me last time was a nice experience. She sent me a pleasant and accountable text saying she understood if I didn’t want to, but she really missed me and wanted to meet up, even if it was just to be friends. When we did meet she was respectful and honest with me. In person is definitely the way to go. Your plan to talk at your house seems appropriate. I really hope he is open to it, if that is what you truly think is best.

Thanks for asking about me also, that is really kind! I’m actually doing really well. I have accepted that this is never going to give me the safety and fulfilment I need moving forward, so this break up has actually been easier than previous ones. I think it’s because I’ve exhausted my options now. I tried taking blame, I tried showing endless love and affection (I made an Instagram account just for her called ‘57 ways I love you’ to represent the 57 days we were apart. This (should have) had 57 acts of love in it, from simple acts like getting her flowers, right up to a holiday in Jamaica - which cost a small fortune. She split up with me for ‘lack of care’ by act/picture 21!). I tried boundaries, I tried acting normally, I tried being ‘manly and assertive’, I tried not jading, I tried couples therapy, we moved in together, I tried disengaging with arguments, I tried being non-reactive to her words and empathising with her core feelings. I read 3 books, every article on the internet, every video on YouTube. I’ve run out of options now and just feel empty. I’m out of ideas and I’m tired.

Each other break up I would sit at home and think ‘what if I tried this!’ I’d refrain from moving on and hold onto her coming back even though she, (nor anyone else for that matter) was aware of that. This time I’m entertaining the idea of a new future. I went out for a coffee with a girl last weekend just to reacquaint myself with the world. Nothing too serious, just as means to act in a way I never normally would. I have been solid at the gym for 2 months and have started back at ju jitsu to make me feel more confident. I’ve always been in good physical condition, but I’m at my 25 year old body-type now. I’m doing this for me, not her. I want to feel how I did before I met her, before she tore down my self-esteem (calling me pathetic, not a real man, a child, selfish, I can’t show love, I’m horrible, I treat her poorly. None of that is true).

The boundary was quite big in my eyes. Leaving in the night without saying anything, taking her daughter with her, over something so small, was something she would have done 18 months ago. There was a lot of verbal abuse also. She had obviously been planning it as that weekend I had looked after her daughter for 2 days straight, took them for pizzas, made a roast dinner on the Sunday, and had given her a massage. She had been depressed all weekend and had spent it in bed crying. This was interspersed with her screaming at me because I didn’t give her a hug when she came back from a run (I did make her a drink and run her a bath tho). She told me she deserved better and I was ‘incapable of love’. Something in my mind just snapped at that point and I thought, ‘ok, you deserve better? go and find it then, because so do I’.

Her contact doesn’t really phase me to be honest. We work together anyway so I’m never going to be completely free. I’ll have good days and bad days, but I’m having more positive ones.

Sorry for highjacking your thread, I think some of that probably just needed to come out. Thank you and good luck with your next steps.