I pulled the pin on the grenade

[AlleyOop23]

Sorry I was quoting her. She feels blindsided by me.

Yeah, I need to get a protective order because I am not going to jail if she attacks me.

I would love to discuss temporary orders with her. If she had a lawyer, that might actually be possible but she doesn’t and when I have tried to talk schedule with her, all she does is literally go on and on about how she feels and how bad I am for two hours and doesn’t get to it and will not get to it no matter how many times I’ll bring her back to her

[AlleyOop23]

Wow, you think that’s a long text? She will text me streams of consciousness that run in separate texts, all strong together anywhere from 3 to 9 feet as measured by an iPhone screen.

[kells76]

I would love to discuss temporary orders with her. If she had a lawyer, that might actually be possible but she doesn’t and when I have tried to talk schedule with her, all she does is literally go on and on about how she feels and how bad I am for two hours and doesn’t get to it and will not get to it no matter how many times I’ll bring her back to her

Long game: you need a schedule for the kids (temporary orders). She's wrapped up in her feelings. She probably won't be responsive to "reasonable" or "logical" requests

It would be better to get some kind of agreement with her and you together (vs it "being imposed on" her) -- so she doesn't move from the clingy/sad place to the anger/taking it out on you via the kids place before things are legal.

You offered family therapy, she didn't take you up on that.

Now she's offering marriage counseling.

It's not family counseling -- but it's an office with a neutral, third party professional. Like Skip mentioned, you aren't required to stay married just because you go for a few sessions. It would be OK to go in with the mindset of -- "if I know myself, it's very unlikely that counseling will get us back together. I can just go and learn some communication approaches for coparenting, and also have a forum to raise my interest in working out a schedule. I can stop going at any time."

Would she feel "heard" and therefore be more willing to agree to a schedule you propose, if she felt like she "won" by getting you to go to counseling?

If you decide that's something to try in order to achieve your goal of temp orders, know that it's OK to tell the counselor at the first session: "I don't feel up for all 3 of us meeting together right away. I'm fine with meeting with you 1x1 for half the session -- that's just where I'm at today. I'm OK with my kids' mom also meeting with you 1x1 so she has space to share her feelings."

That keeps you out of the high anxiety situation of being in a room with her.

Again, this isn't about being deceptive or manipulative. It's about thinking about outcomes and playing the long game. The kids need you to get a schedule for them. What actual (not desired or best) options/doors are there right now for doing that? There may be more options besides a few marriage counseling sessions (I would understand not wanting to go that route) -- what comes to mind?

...

Does your W have an individual counselor?

[ForeverDad]

Right now you're in a no-man's land of no court order yet.  Likely what is happening now will persist until that TRO hearing is completed.  Do you have a timeline on that?

Has she returned and are the children now with her?  If so, is she blocking an expected return of the children to you?  What about contact such as phone calls or texts from them?

Police, if called, will not enforce what you want or what she wants.  In my experience their primary task is to defuse any immediate incident and defer everything else to the court to handle.  What that means is that if there is an incident they respond to, they will separate the couple, by force if necessary.  Sadly, whether right or wrong, their typical procedure will be to cart away the man.

What this means is that you'll have to "cool your heels" waiting for the next court hearing.  Meanwhile, lacking a court order either way, it's the proverbial "possession is 9/10 the law".  It may come down to who picks them up from school, if they're school age.  Even then, be cautious in case the police get called there.  Schools hate incidents in their domain.  All things being equal - as in, no court orders - then the man gets unfair treatment.

[At Bay]

(I’m sorry, but I don’t know how to copy earlier posts.)

I’ve read, here, I think, that when facing an unpleasant reality, there needs to be awareness followed by acceptance. She may or may not be aware that you will not be living where you might be hit, threatened and intimidated in a dysfunctional way of life that hurts you and your children.

She’s livid just as my husband was (it is too late for me to be on my own), when I told him I’d discovered his extramarital affair after finding a backdoor into his phone records. He had a tantrum and said I shouldn’t have invaded his privacy, and I told him he shouldn’t have given me a reason to….

Looks like her goal is for you to change your mind and accept the blame. You’ll still need her to help your children adjust to the changes, but while keeping yourself safe and minimizing what the kids witness, so don’t be alone with her.

My son texts his ex (when it is his turn to keep the girls), that he’s arrived in front of her house and “please tell the girls he is there.” If your soon to be ex-wife comes out and causes a scene, the police might consider you are in the car, and she could go back in the house if she wanted to.

How long it will take for her to see the current dialog isn’t working to her advantage and to accept the changes is an unknown, and up to her. I agree with others that she’ll then become as difficult as she is allowed to be.

[ForeverDad]

For the first few years my ex played the aggressive but fearful victim and we had to make exchanges at the sheriff's offices.  Not even in the parking lot, we had to do it inside in the lobby.  It was out of the way for both of us but that way there was a court recognized official monitoring us, the sheriff's deputy, who couldn't have cared less about her posturing.  Eventually she grew tired of it but that was post-marriage life for me.  When our child was older we made exchanges at daycare before or after school but that wasn't free.  He aged out of daycare when 12 years old, when he attended middle school.

[EyesUp]

@AlleyOop,

I've read the updates and I'm going to propose a few very tactical things:

The divorce process is largely transactional. And it plays out on two levels:
- what you demonstrate / offer to your stbx
- what you demonstrate / offer to the court

What do you want right now?  A parenting schedule.
How do you get it?  Stipulations, temp orders, other...
Who/what/when will this happen?  Unclear, but seems to be a high priority!

What does your stbx want right now?  Marriage counseling, which may simply be a delay tactic while she acclimates to this new reality.

Potential response to your stbx (which is, by default, also a letter to the court):
I am not willing to move back in - however agree to marriage counseling if you will agree to a schedule for the kids - and stick to it.  I've prepared an agreement to protect both of us - please let me know what you think.

This demonstrates to your stbx (and to the court) that you the reasonable person who is working on solutions.

It's important to create this sort of documentation - it may be a prophylactic measure, or it may become useful depending on how your case moves forward.

Next: TRO

Not sure how your atty failed to execute on a plan that you've been developing for weeks, months. In theory, a competent atty should be able to walk into court and request emergency orders any time.  That includes this Monday...

If you absolutely cannot even consider negotiating at this point, I would imagine that it may be necessary to file a motion for emergency orders, rather than waiting for a hearing for temporary orders. I will speculate that you didn't get temp orders because your stbx hadn't been served yet, or some other logistical reason that your atty failed to identify or communicate.  I read that you don't want to discuss it.  ok.  but if we don't have some of the facts, we can't provide useful input.

It would be helpful to know: 
- a new plan for orders has been established - y/n?
- you are confident in this plan - y/n?
- you understand the timeline in this plan - y/n?
- you need to consider alternate strategies - y/n?

If you want us to focus on the emotional aspects of what you're going through, we can do that.

But if you're seeking input on the practical aspects, e.g., how to respond to a, b, c...  we're probably going to need a bit more detail about where things stand - beyond what you've provided.

Finally, reading through the text you shared: 

We often observe that disordered individuals invert or project their feelings in ways that are hard to understand.  It sounds like your stbx refers to some deep-seated trauma from childhood, which she feels she needs you to address.

However, after lots of analysis, we usually figure out that what she really needs is to address that wounded child herself...  It might be helpful to try to keep that in mind when reading her messages and listening to her words in the days, weeks, months, years to come: Even if you were to remain married, she needs to do the work to address her unresolved trauma - it's not something that you - or anyone else - can do for her.

If you agree to marriage counseling, you'll need to walk a fine line between protecting yourself and respecting her feelings - however distorted they may be.  But that process might (might!) help you get the agreement that you need, and/or get your stbx into a T process that could, in time, lead to individual T for her.

[Pook075]

I'll offer a different perspective here; not to counter what others have said, but to give more of as picture of hope.

The relationship has been rocky for awhile now and on your end, something had to change.  As you said in the title, you pulled the pin on the grenade and blew it all up.  At the same time though, you did it for the betterment of yourself and your children.

Her reaction, while on a trip in Mexico, is fully expected and not a surprise.  Everyone knew her emotions would be kicked into overdrive and lots of words would be shared.  You knew this before you tossed the grenade, so to speak, and you are not surprised by the outcome.

It hurts nonetheless and it's very hard to deal with.

However, I noticed that you posted in the "conflicted" board.  Maybe that's because you're entering the divorce and custody phase.  I've noticed over the past few years though that regular members often choose this category very carefully to align with their emotions and feelings in the moment.  Personally, I've started threads in all three categories and it really depended on my mindset in that particular moment in time...whether it felt like there was a shred of hope or not.

Moving out is not divorce, and different states have different waiting periods for filing and finalizing a divorce.  As others have said, there's protections and custody steps you must take now, but again...that's not a guarantee of divorce.  In other words, you're not past the point of no return if you don't want to be.

If you were ever to consider marriage counseling, now is the time for countless reasons.  Why?  Because now is the ideal time for your voice to actually be heard.  Maybe it doesn't seem like that right now with endless texts roaring in, but that third party counselor changes everything by moderating those discussions.

I realize you want a different type of counseling, one that starts the divorce process, parenting schedules, and the division of assets.  But why not try marriage counseling first?  I ask that because again, we're in the conflicted category and your actions have made an enormous statement about your intentions- you're not taking the abuse anymore. 

That's fantastic and I applaud you; you've taken back your voice and stood your ground.  That's essential in a BPD relationship and we all know that when this happens, things get worse before they get better.  You've rocked the boat and nobody likes that, but you did it for your own good.  So kudos to you.

Marriage counseling is your one chance before getting down in the weeds to actually be heard and validated.  It may turn out horrible, that's a real possibility, but it also leaves the door open for actual hope.  I feel like it would be a huge mistake to slam that door shut in this moment, when you actually have some momentum and your words have a chance to be taken seriously.

Of course, it's your call and we'll all support you no matter what you decide.  I simply see an opportunity here that could benefit everyone, regardless of the ultimate outcome.

[AlleyOop23]

Thanks very succinct eyes up.

The legal stuff I think I have covered for now. In short they blew the plan to obtain emergency orders.the hearing now now set for Monday. Not sure what I’ll do if for some reason the order isn’t signed setting a restraining order and parenting schedule. In the meantime I’ve gathered other names and am looking for a new firm. Too many mistakes I’ve lost faith.

The issue now is the confusing emotional context.

I did this awful thing I told my wife by text I was divorcing her and getting a restraining order and telling the kids while she was out of the country.

It allowed me to have a regulated conversation with the kids and show stability.


Now my wife is back and I don’t have the certainty I thought
My legal team was providing. The kids don’t know when they are going to be where.

Last night my wife dropped off my oldest at the house. Then she hung around on the porch crying about how I’d done this. How she felt misled. How she didn’t know how to get to our money. That she couldn’t believe I’d rented this modern house and the kids have their own rooms here. (It’s extremely comparable to our place she’s just putting feelings on it)

But after yesterday morning where she called me suicidal and I managed that and talked to friends of hers she’d been texting and worried about her now here she is on the porch like this.

Ive got my kids with me at this house for the first time for the night. I’ve got a pizza in the oven. I rented this house two months ago when she was relentlessly pushing me to rent a place. The house needs furniture and just stuff. I feel silly it’s like camping in here.

And I got angry. I’m stressed out about paying for everything. I’m living in a house 1/3 stocked that feels like an airbnb. My 11 yo is being so encouraging and optimistic that I’m really worried she’s trying to make me feel better. (Or she’s just relived the yelling and tension are over). My 13 yo is distant and quiet. (Suppressing feelings or just being 13). My wife feels ill like an energy vampire. She takes my days and I don’t even live with her. I cleared my schedule to manage the suicidality. Work went to the back. Again.

I ended up snapping at her while she stood there so emotional she was shaking. “How many times did you demand I move out in January ALONE? Five? Ten? You want this house? Take it I’ll move into ours!” She starts crying more ‘please just be warmer to me’. I tell I’m going to burn the pizza and go back in. My 13 yo was eavesdropping.

The whole day just made me so confused. At one point during the morning she’s texting me to come back and hold her and let her cry on me and I snap back in a text just spontaneously “I don’t have more to give! My well is empty! I’m tapped out! I can’t sit and listen for hours what a disappointment I am or how bad you feel! I dot have more to give!”

Also during the day I ended up talking with people we know and explaining I’m getting a restraining order due to physical abuse.


So I’m stretched so thin. The house furnishing. The lawyers. My business. The kids feelings. The kids lives. My extended family. Our money and debt. My wife’s emotional problems. My guilt about those.  Our friends. Her friends. The way I did this. Worried about how My actions now affect any attempt  to manage the family into a post divorce equilibrium.

I want to plan my business growth. I want to laugh with my kids and have it be summer and hard but stable and get a dog. I want to take them places and have quiet nonconsequential moments. I want to have sex. I want to save more than I spend.

[CravingPeace]

"I want to plan my business growth. I want to laugh with my kids and have it be summer and hard but stable and get a dog. I want to take them places and have quiet nonconsequential moments. I want to have sex. I want to save more than I spend."

Ouch this hit me so hard. I feel exactly the same way all my emotions are drained, my nervous system is shot, my business did at least 50% growth a year, since I have been married to uBPD it has been flat with so many problems, I only asked the question could it be my relationship this year. I feel my optimism and hope drained too tired managing the instability at home .

I realised always managing her emotions, even planning a fun day out fills me with dread, as no doubt something wont be how she expected it and I will get silent treatment or worse. But yes it would be nice to have sex one day, and not have to carry the blame that we dont because I make her depressed, or I don't make her feel emotionally cared for, or I dont do enough whrn I am doing everything I can.

I am so sorry what you are going through. But hear this. It is always darkest before dawn.

Wishing you the best, stay strong and try not to second guess and get drawn into the FOG, for me G is the worst. You have been badly abused and its not your fault.

[AlleyOop23]

If I posted this in “conflicted”
Instead of “strategy” it was just a mistake. I am not great with details. I have three threads going.

My fear with cojlunselingnisnthat I’ll get sucked in. That my obligation will be triggered.

[Tangled mangled]

If I posted this in “conflicted”
Instead of “strategy” it was just a mistake. I am not great with details. I have three threads going.

My fear with cojlunselingnisnthat I’ll get sucked in. That my obligation will be triggered.

Those are valid concerns re:being sucked back into the prison you just escaped. I remember when I was at the stage you are in, I just couldn’t bear the thought of spending another minute talking about the issues in the marriage with a counsellor when I ve already spent countless of hours arguing over meaningless crap.
Everyone has a limit to how much of this mess they can still tolerate at the end- for another second or minute in counselling was going to do more damage than it was worth.
Know your limit- looks like you have reached it already. You must be aching to get back to some normalcy again. Give yourself the permission to accept your limits without judgement.

[once removed]

The issue now is the confusing emotional context.

i dont have legal advice; i think youre getting the best of the best of that already. i hope youll lean on it.

I did this awful thing I told my wife by text I was divorcing her and getting a restraining order and telling the kids while she was out of the country.

i think this was a move that, well, you aptly described in the title of your OP. i would have strongly recommended against it. i also understand why you did it. and, regardless, it is done.

now theres the fallout; what happens (is happening) after the grenade goes off.

Then she hung around on the porch crying about how I’d done this. How she felt misled. How she didn’t know how to get to our money. That she couldn’t believe I’d rented this modern house and the kids have their own rooms here. (It’s extremely comparable to our place she’s just putting feelings on it)

reading her texts to you, as an outsider, is a very hard read. i can only imagine it is far harder for you, as someone involved. her pain is palpable, and i certainly dont believe you relish in it. i do suspect that your anger and resentment (long held, and valid) are piling on top of it. i also understand, of course, that there are distortions in what she expresses (certain facts might be wrong, unwilling or unable to take responsibility, bpd flavoring, etc). i also understand that anyone in her position would feel how she feels, and that anyone in your position would feel how you feel.

my father was a family lawyer. i know very little about law in general, but i prepared his case files, and i read through them fervently. my impression was that quite often (with plenty of exceptions), in high conflict divorces, there isnt a clear bad guy, but two people fighting against each other for what they want (as they were in the relationship). you both want peace. you have, right now, competing ideas of what that looks like. you want as far away as possible from her. she wants the pain to go away.

fighting her for your idea of peace (whether it was the manner of the split, ignoring her, or blowing off steam/losing your cool at her) is resulting in more conflict, and less peace for you (both of you).

i think that that is why the importance of staying centered was stressed. your immediate self interest, while it isnt wrong, how youre going about trying to obtain it is making this less stable.  

My 13 yo is distant and quiet. (Suppressing feelings or just being 13). My wife feels ill like an energy vampire. She takes my days and I don’t even live with her. I cleared my schedule to manage the suicidality. Work went to the back. Again.
...
She starts crying more ‘please just be warmer to me’. I tell I’m going to burn the pizza and go back in. My 13 yo was eavesdropping.

i can promise you that no matter what the state of the home is, your 13 year old is not finding stability in being uprooted and separated from mom. and more than likely, watching that take place, shes not understanding the nuances of how difficult someone with BPD can be, or seeing that its best for the two of you to be apart. more than likely, she sees her mom outside, shaking, begging, and shes probably wondering "why cant dad just be nice".

while you cant fix what her mom is going through, and you cant fix everything your daughter is going through either, and you cant always be a model example of "how to do high conflict divorce "right"" (i understand how difficult your wife has been, is being, and we cant always keep our cool), you can do your best to keep your eye on the long game, work to remain centered, and even blow off steam in constructive ways (like posting here).

but the best way to "win", is not to fight. situations like this are best handled by "learning to bend without breaking". what might initially feel like appeasement toward someone who has wronged you, is often the best (or least bad) way to ensure your peace, and in this case, your childrens.

I want to plan my business growth. I want to laugh with my kids and have it be summer and hard but stable and get a dog. I want to take them places and have quiet nonconsequential moments. I want to have sex. I want to save more than I spend.

you also have a marriage to grieve. first things first, yes?

[livednlearned]

Really great advice and insight from once removed.

It's good to read it a few times.

My only addition is to suggest you discuss your GAD/ADHD medication with a psychiatrist to make sure your team of advisors all know what you're going through.

I was prescribed medication for ADD that in retrospect was like adding gasoline to fire

During the period you're at I developed an eye twitch and was on my way to losing a concerning amount of weight, not to mention what turned out to be reversible grey hair which is apparently a thing.

It might be worth asking your T to increase visits.

This is really hard stuff and it does not stay this hot although certainly it does not cool off as quickly as we like.

We're here for you. Keep posting.

[AlleyOop23]

I cannot for the life of me figure out how you people do the boxed excerpt thing. It must be easy and obvious it’s got to be here somewhere, but I cannot figure it out

Once removed, he would’ve strongly recommended against me doing what I did? I was concerned I would be pulled into an altercation, taken away by the police, gotten stuck with a no contact order, and traumatize my children as they watch me get led away in handcuffs. I begged her to walk back those threats. I was kicked out of the house and cried in my pillow afraid my children were about to be taken away from me. I consulted with therapists but divorce coach lawyers, and I agonized over this choice for weeks and I’m dragging guilt around dealing with it. I believed that what I was doing was largely in my children’s interest and not in my self interest though I I did do it in part for my own safety.

If you think there’s a way I could’ve done this better. I’d like to hear it because it would give me compassion for my wife’s situation, knowing that I could’ve done better. It also enable me to be able to tell the children without her which presented them with a vision of stability. They would not. Otherwise I’ve gotten if I had attempted to do it together.

[AlleyOop23]

I’m sure I don’t know much of what’s going on in my 13-year-old head but I can say that I am absolutely certain that there is no way that kid is wondering why her dad isn’t nicer to her mom

[GaGrl]

I’m sure I don’t know much of what’s going on in my 13-year-old head but I can say that I am absolutely certain that there is no way that kid is wondering why her dad isn’t nicer to her mom

To this...

By the time my husband's three children were in their teens, all of them were asking why he didn't divorce their mother.

One of the primary issues in their marriage was her constant and blatant infidelities. The 12-year-old daughter actually walked into the living room one night to find her mother having sex with "a friend" on the living room floor. Dad was stationed elsewhere in the state at the time, came home on weekends, and received a letter from his daughter telling her dad what she saw.

So yes, if you are sure of your 13-year-old's grasp of the marital situation, you are probably on the money.

And yes, the way your separation happened was unfortunate and "ugly," but there have been other and worse separations.

I'm not sure you are anywhere near being in the same room with your wife for counselors by or mediation until your raw feelings have had time to subside.

[Skip]

Once removed, he would’ve strongly recommended against me doing what I did? I was concerned I would be pulled into an altercation, taken away by the police, gotten stuck with a no contact order, and traumatize my children as they watch me get led away in handcuffs. I begged her to walk back those threats. I was kicked out of the house and cried in my pillow afraid my children were about to be taken away from me. I consulted with therapists but divorce coach lawyers, and I agonized over this choice for weeks and I’m dragging guilt around dealing with it. I believed that what I was doing was largely in my children’s interest and not in my self interest though I I did do it in part for my own safety.

Opp,

1) People here did encourage you not to go in so heavy.

2) In looking back, your fears were disproportionate for the situation. You called it wrong.

Learn from it. We all make mistakes in family court. The important thing is to see it, and be open minded enough to adjust.

A) Look at who gave you the best advice and worst (I know you consulted many) and refine your support network.

B) Look at what has transpired and deal with the situation at hand (not your fears).

You're getting advice to right now to:

i) Stay focused on the final outcomes. You get 50% by showing the court that you are a mature and reasonable guy with good judgement who can work with his ex-wife and co-parent.

ii) Get the mechanics of the divorce in place. Temporary orders, parenting schedule. Then get a more balanced attorney to carry you through discovery, valuations, etc,.settlement.

iii) Take your wife up on the counseling. If nothing else, it will provide a venue for controlled release of tensions rather than have her lying in your front yard crying while express your frustration and burn your pizza -  the children don't need to hear/see this. You can also talk immediately about how to best co-parent while sorting things out. And you can have a professional help you explore where you two are and where you are going. A few session - a months.

I'm not sure you are anywhere near being in the same room with your wife for counselors by or mediation until your raw feelings have had time to subside.

This is the wildcard. Do you have the strength and resolve to do this? Or do you need for this to be no contact/functional contact only divorce?

[AlleyOop23]

I don’t think I called it wrong and don’t understand why you do.

[AlleyOop23]

Honestly he criticism and judgment just make me feel awful. I did and am doing my best given everything this has been the worst week of my life

[AlleyOop23]

I already felt like I was ruining everyone’s life, including mine

[once removed]

Alleyoop, please try to separate criticism from judgment of you as a person, a parent, or a spouse. It is the difference maker going forward; what you are in control of, in a chaotic situation.

What is required right now, is strength, focus and clarity (staying centered), at a time that is probably hardest of all.

It's required to cope with the torrent of your wife's emotions and heart string pulling.

It's required to help your children adjust and thrive.

It's required for a more peaceful situation for you.

It's not going to be easy, none of it. We know. But it's the way you come out on top of all of this.

[At Bay]

No one knows what would have happened trying other ways to get away from a very bad situation. I would expect, either way, there would be intimidation to return to her house. Making it look as if you’re the mean spouse is interesting. 

I’ve heard that we are our own best counselors, and when I trusted that, the paths I chose turned out to be right for me.

You’ve put a lot of thought into what needed to be done, and I don’t think you’re wrong.

[Skip]

Sorry to upset you AO. I know this is a difficult time.

2) In looking back, your fears were disproportionate for the situation. You called it wrong.

I was narrowly referring to your fears of what would happen (e.g. police cars and handcuffs) vs what did happen. And I said it in the context of factoring in this new information in you decision making going forward.

[ForeverDad]

A generally wise concept...

The most risky time for a spouse (especially the male) is immediately before, during and after the separation.

Tensions are high, emotions are raw, wild things are claimed.  More so, the disordered spouse is highly likely to create or foment an "incident" so that the spouse can claim, "He is worse than me! ... Which is why I have to get him carted off or arrested, thereby justifying he's the problem and deserves punishment forever, sentenced to anger management classes, and punishment forever.  Oh, did I say punishment forever?  Good, he deserves it because I'm so upset and he is Mr Evil Personified and I've never loved him and more than anything else they're my children, not his, so ..."

Get the idea?  Whether deserved or not, during all that emotional download explosion, you're at risk of legal consequences if you're not careful.  One of the ways to avoid the worst of the immediate risk is to either (1) never be around her until everything has calmed down and stabilized or (2) ensure you always have other adults as witnesses that you're not doing anything improper.

For example, sometimes mediation is so tense that the spouses sit in separate rooms and the mediator walks back and forth.  I don't know how to approach that with marriage or couples counseling.

[EyesUp]

@AlleyOop - Good luck - We'll be thinking of you on Monday.

[At Bay]

Many female abuse victims have to pack bags for themselves and kids in secret, sneak away to live in a shelter or accept temporary living conditions with friends or family, and then face upheavals of all sorts. I think people still call that being brave and smart.

A friend of mine works at a shelter and was a former victim, but one day her adult kids asked police to standby while they told her spouse they were taking her clothes and nothing else out of the house, and to consider her gone. She’s told me moving out was hard when life suddenly looked so different being focused on many unknowns at once including legal judgments, compared to years of thinking about just one thing: leaving.

You could have what I call “battle fatigue.” It affected my son during a divorce that he and his ex-wife both wanted. Used up lots of his endless energy followed by feelings of weakness and doubt that took him by surprise.

[livednlearned]

AlleyOop, you doing ok?

[AlleyOop23]

Thanks for asking.  I’m doing okay. I feel like I’m driving through the woods at night with no lights while throwing money out the window.

My wife is starting intensive outpatient care for depression  found a therapist. I agreed to hold off serving her until she is in care. The kids are back and forth on a set 50/50 schedule.

They come over here and retire to their rooms and I check on them but don’t intrude. It’s not a tight ship over here right now. Nobody knows where things are.

They don’t have their own rooms at the other house. So they hole up with their cheap furniture and books or text w friends and I refrain from asking them how they’re doing and sometimes they decide to tell me on their own.


Work sleep exercise and self care all need a lot of attention.

[kells76]

Hey, good to hear from you -- thanks for updating.

My wife is starting intensive outpatient care for depression  found a therapist. I agreed to hold off serving her until she is in care. The kids are back and forth on a set 50/50 schedule.

Her getting IOP treatment is new, so adjusting your plan in light of that makes sense. Glad you both could agree on 50/50 -- so important for your kids that Dad and Mom can be on the same page.

They come over here and retire to their rooms and I check on them but don’t intrude. It’s not a tight ship over here right now. Nobody knows where things are.

Having a "light touch" sounds normal for teen/preteen girls and a new "Mom's house/Dad's house" situation. Ours are 15.5 & 18 and I've done the "check but don't intrude too much" for a few years.

Would you say your girls are old enough to give some input about where they want things to be at Dad's house?

They don’t have their own rooms at the other house. So they hole up with their cheap furniture and books or text w friends and I refrain from asking them how they’re doing and sometimes they decide to tell me on their own.

That's really positive that they will sometimes seek you out and share their feelings.

...

Any new "Dad's house" traditions you'd like to start?

We did "international food night" on Fridays and rotated whose turn it was to pick a country. Gave us something to talk about at dinner, and the kids felt like they had some say/input that was taken seriously.