I pulled the pin on the grenade

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I pulled the pin on the grenade and while she was in Mexico with 3 friends I told the kids and then texted her that I’d told the kids and would be getting a restraining order.

I will always be grateful for having g told them with their mother gone. It’s a violation and she’s furious. But I got to talk. I wasn’t interrupted or shut down. I got the chance to lead the kids and show them one side of stability.

The kids went fairly well until their mom called distraught and crying and shattered the optimism that there might be an amicable divorce.

In the aftermath the predictable torrent of rage texts threatening me with everything just goes on and on.

Dam this is just awful. And after wringing my hands about the gentlest way to do this I am being shown why that was an exercise in naïveté.

The kids are excited about the new house. And planing to conceal that excitement from their mother in proper codependent in training Fashion.

Any fantasy about being friends at least for awhile is  gone.

I was so stressed out about this and now there is nothing she won’t threaten.


Having said all that I am now able to believe that it wouldn’t have mattered how I handled it. It would have started like this on some level.  I used to blame myself for not heading off these blow ups.


It’s awful but I feel better. I move out completely forever tomorrow and get to start on my own. And when the kids are with me I won’t be creeping around on eggshells or wall flowering it.

[AlleyOop23]

I pulled the pin on the grenade and while she was in Mexico with 3 friends I told the kids and then texted her that I’d told the kids and would be getting a restraining order.

I will always be grateful for having g told them with their mother gone. It’s a violation and she’s furious. But I got to talk. I wasn’t interrupted or shut down. I got the chance to lead the kids and show them one side of stability.

The kids went fairly well until their mom called distraught and crying and shattered the optimism that there might be an amicable divorce.

In the aftermath the predictable torrent of rage texts threatening me with everything just goes on and on.

Dam this is just awful. And after wringing my hands about the gentlest way to do this I am being shown why that was an exercise in naïveté.

The kids are excited about the new house. And planing to conceal that excitement from their mother in proper codependent in training Fashion.

Any fantasy about being friends at least for awhile is  gone.

I was so stressed out about this and now there is nothing she won’t threaten.


Having said all that I am now able to believe that it wouldn’t have mattered how I handled it. It would have started like this on some level.  I used to blame myself for not heading off these blow ups.


It’s awful but I feel better. I move out completely forever tomorrow and get to start on my own. And when the kids are with me I won’t be creeping around on eggshells or wall flowering it.

[EyesUp]

@AlleyOop,

I remember feeling waves of relief - interspersed with a full spectrum of other emotions - as I went through this process.  I imagine you'll be riding those waves, too.

Good luck with the move and establishing the transition process with your kids.

Has your stbx been served yet?  How do you feel about your atty and next steps?

[ForeverDad]

Having said all that I am now able to believe that it wouldn’t have mattered how I handled it. It would have started like this on some level.  I used to blame myself for not heading off these blow ups.

But like most of us, you had to try anyway, right?

You handled it well. 

Depending on how severe her behaviors are, she may go full tilt on trying to make you look way worse than her.  Be prepared for allegation filed about DV, getting children's services involved with claims of child abuse, child neglect and whatever.  There is virtually no limit to what she may claim.  Be aware.  Beware.

[ForeverDad]

Allegations are just that... allegations.  Nearly all of the allegations against us end up filed away as 'unsubstantiated'.  That's a bit passive considering the vociferous emotion filled claims.  The difference between you two is that you probably have documentation or other evidence to back up your account.

Less common is a determination of 'unfounded'.  It too is a passive word which in courtspeak means Liar!

One caution.  If the children are interviewed by children's services, understand that kids don't like being caught in the middle.  You can do that but likely not your spouse.  How much they might be intimidated to lean toward repeating mother's side is an unknown, at least from here.  You can be fairly sure that when mother gets back she'll try to indoctrinate and prep then to say what she wants.

Fortunately CPS investigators do try to interview the children in somewhat neutral environments.  In most of my ex's allegations they seldom spoke with my child, well, so far as I know.  The one time I recall being told is they came to his school when my child was in kindergarten class.

Has your lawyer discussed what to do if your ex takes that aggressive path?  I recall how my ex claimed to be a victim but she was so very aggressive about it.  There was such a contradiction about it.  I would think an aggressive victim would not be very credible.

[livednlearned]

What are the terms of the restraining order? (not sure if terms is the right word)

[AlleyOop23]

She can’t come within 1000 feet. Parental communication only.

She is livid I told them without her.
She is livid I took them to the house. Angry they like it. Warning me not to get a dog.

On and on. I’m entitled, selfish, on a power trip “other people” see how bad I am.

Here’s the thing though. I’m out.  Don’t have to deal with it to avoid her blowing up at me. Don’t have to respond to texts promptly to avoid rage.

These issues aren’t gone from my life. But I’m not sleeping in a bedroom with a locked door. And it feels pretty good.

[SinisterComplex]

She can’t come within 1000 feet. Parental communication only.

She is livid I told them without her.
She is livid I took them to the house. Angry they like it. Warning me not to get a dog.

On and on. I’m entitled, selfish, on a power trip “other people” see how bad I am.

Here’s the thing though. I’m out.  Don’t have to deal with it to avoid her blowing up at me. Don’t have to respond to texts promptly to avoid rage.

These issues aren’t gone from my life. But I’m not sleeping in a bedroom with a locked door. And it feels pretty good.

One step at a time. Still a long road, but the good news...you made a decision for you and put one foot in front of the other on a new path. 

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[GaGrl]

Have your children said anything in anticipation of their mother returning and being livid?

They may need multiple assurances that, while the conflict is between mom and dad, you love them and will support them in making this difficult change. Don't tell them their mother loves them -- that can conflict them on what "love" looks like. Your stbx is responsible for her communications with them. If she botched it, that's where you support them and validate them.

[kells76]

Hey, thanks for filling us in on where things are at.

She can’t come within 1000 feet. Parental communication only.

How is parental communication legally required to happen? Text? Our Family Wizard? Email? Other?

If that isn't yet spelled out, that will be important.

She is livid I told them without her.
She is livid I took them to the house. Angry they like it. Warning me not to get a dog.

On and on. I’m entitled, selfish, on a power trip “other people” see how bad I am.

We were warned via email not to get a pet snake. This isn't unusual, surprising, or unexpected. Consider this "the norm" for when the other parent has a PD -- pivot from being surprised/shocked/outraged/indignant every time, to expecting it ahead of time so that you can respond (vs react) with flexible thinking, managed emotions, and moderate behaviors.

As GaGrl mentioned, the big concern here is the impact of her emotions on the kids. If she has BPD, then she will struggle with appropriate boundaries and healthy management of feelings. This stuff will likely start to dump on the kids.

It's critical that you let your kids' counselors (do they both have private counselors? or, at minimum, school counselors and support staff) know about the divorce, sooner rather than later. You don't have to blame or point fingers -- more something like "Hi School Staff, I wanted to let you know that our family is going through a change right now and the kids' mom and I will be living separately as we divorce. My #1 concern is my kids' well-being so please know that this is happening and they may have a lot of emotions come up. Please don't hesitate to reach out to me any time with observations or concerns -- I'm at 123-456-7890 and can come down to the school within X minutes for any reason. Thank you all again for caring about the kids; Mr. AlleyOop23"

Here’s the thing though. I’m out.  Don’t have to deal with it to avoid her blowing up at me. Don’t have to respond to texts promptly to avoid rage.

These issues aren’t gone from my life. But I’m not sleeping in a bedroom with a locked door. And it feels pretty good.

It'll be such a benefit to your kids for you to be able to parent from a stable emotional baseline  

What has your counselor said about where things are at?

[Tangled mangled]

She can’t come within 1000 feet. Parental communication only.

She is livid I told them without her.
She is livid I took them to the house. Angry they like it. Warning me not to get a dog.

On and on. I’m entitled, selfish, on a power trip “other people” see how bad I am.

Here’s the thing though. I’m out.  Don’t have to deal with it to avoid her blowing up at me. Don’t have to respond to texts promptly to avoid rage.

These issues aren’t gone from my life. But I’m not sleeping in a bedroom with a locked door. And it feels pretty good.

So glad you’re no longer stuck in that mess. It’s a very horrible situation when your home that once loved becomes a prison, and you realise you’re a hostage in your own home.

A counsellor I saw once described escaping an emotionally abusive relationship as having thesame effects on the brain as incarceration does on prisoners.
Wishing you all the best as you navigate the rest of your journey through healing. You have made the best decision for yourself and the girls and they will grow up knowing atleast one healthy parent.

[livednlearned]

What's the plan for when/if she violates the PO?

Do you anticipate she will comply?

[AlleyOop23]

This is all so great. Thank you. Yeah private counselors. I’m going to reach out today. Communications mandated through my family wizard. If she violates the Po I’ll call
The police. Of that even happens once will be enough.

[Pook075]

Warning me not to get a dog.

For the record, I'd get two dogs.  And a goldfish named Lucky.

[kells76]

This is all so great. Thank you. Yeah private counselors. I’m going to reach out today. Communications mandated through my family wizard. If she violates the Po I’ll call
The police. Of that even happens once will be enough.

Smart to reach out to the counselors today. That's putting your kids first.

Like LnL mentioned, this is really important to know:

What are the terms of the restraining order? (not sure if terms is the right word)

Is she legally allowed to text or call you?

How are these messages:

Warning me not to get a dog.

On and on. I’m entitled, selfish, on a power trip “other people” see how bad I am.

getting to you? Through OFW?

[Skip]

The kids are excited about the new house.

Great. This part doesn't always go well. 

What are they excited about? What are they looking forward to?

What have they expressed to you (good and bad) about the divorce.

[AlleyOop23]

My SBX has gone full in on. Please help me I can’t function. I am blindsided by this. Please go to intensive Merrill counseling with me. I thought we were working on this. After all this work I’ve done I’m actually not pulled into this but I find it difficult bike Walking by someone who is injured and not stopping.

[ForeverDad]

How can we help?  Frankly, we knew it wouldn't be simple, yet you've done well to do as much preparation as possible.  So now we help stamp out the forest fires as they occur.  Give us something to work with, okay?

Meanwhile, take some deep breaths.  We'll help you through this.
 

[AlleyOop23]

So the restraining order is not yet entered. My lawyers botched the hearing and it was canceled and had to be rescheduled. I do t want to talk about that at all I mention it only to say this

She is texting me constantly about how bad this feels and how this was to do. It won’t do me any good to engage with logic like “well you should have thought about that when you (fill in the blank).”

If I grey rock her she keeps escalating. At this point if I break off communication I lose contact with y kids. If I go over there to get them she will create a huge scene.

If I say what I really think “just leave me alone” I’m worried I’ll jeopardize any chance for a less rocky divorce snd oost divorce. I don’t feel bad about the choices I made but explaining that to her doesn’t do anything.

Mostly I just avoid it.  It I stress on it feeling compelled to say or text SOMETHING.  I don’t k me what to do I. Response to her pain practically, ethically or strategically.

And I hit the wall on listening. After 3 straight years I just can’t take it.

[Skip]

Can you describe specifically what she is doing and what she is saying (short version) and how you are responding? Are you being bombed with panic communications? Are you responding on a one-to-one basis? Is she arguing or pleading?  Are you arguing or stonewalling.

It will help to paint the picture.

In general, you probably want to offer some access to 1) communicate about the kids, and 2) to provide a pressure relief valve for her anxiety. I would offer this in exchange for calm/respectful exchanges and respond only to calm/respectful exchanges. I would slow the tempo by taking time to respond... maybe once a day right now and then stretch it out. Respond to things that are safe (safer). For harder questions, just say you need time to think - space.

You described what happened last week as "I pulled the pin on the grenade". Shock and awe. Now you are dealing with the blow back. Her life has exploded (yours too), she feels totally threatened, and she is in the denial and bargaining stage. You have some leverage now. Eventually she will get in the anger stage and that will be harder.

It's just part of it.

The other option is to deny all communications and wait for the TRO. This is also a very valid approach.

There are pros and cons to each.

The one thing you don't want to do is get into intense, high anxiety exchanges with her.

Stay strong and steady.

[ForeverDad]

I can understand your distress.  Lawyers take setbacks in stride, after all it's not a huge personal impact, they go home at the end of their day at work.  For you, it's your life.

I recall when I was in court for my initial divorce hearing.  My ex had blocked all access to my preschooler for three months since our prior TPO separation orders had been dismissed.  The same magistrate said "I'll fix that" when he confirmed with my stbEx that she had indeed blocked all father-child contact for three months.  Did he lambast her with warnings and consequences?  No.  Did he grant me make-up time for the lost three months?  No.  All he did was issue a similar parenting order as before, I had no temp custody and limited to alternate weekends and a three hour evening in between.

That was bad enough.  But my lawyer - who was otherwise a solid attorney - leaned over and shushed me, telling me "we'll fix it later".  Later?  I thought he meant at the next hearings, but no.  The new temp order lasted the entire length of the divorce process, nearly two years!  (However, I have to admit he had initially estimated the divorce should take 7-9 months, not two years.)

So yes, it's a shock.  But you'll get through it.  I think it'll be harder on the kids since she most likely will be pressuring the kids to agree with her perspective and her perceptions.  Kids really shouldn't be pressured to take sides in the adult matters but pwBPD can't seem to let such considerations stop them from their emotion driven, self-centered actions.

Be forewarned that courts generally ignore alienation attempts as minor issues and largely ignore the initial high emotions of the newly separated spouses.  They assume it is only temporary whereas we have recognized that when a PD such as Borderline is involved then our cases are much more complicated and protracted.

[AlleyOop23]

Here’s a text that is an example


“..you took everything instead of helping  me! Why? Please tell me why ? I begged and begged. Truly begged for you help and you’re acting like I didn’t. Or like you actually helped . But you just left me in a bed for two years slowing disappearing . I needed you I needed got to be strong for me. To come and pick me up and say I won’t let this happen to you! I won’t let what ever this is take you!! You pulled the plug on me and so fast! you left me to die. Please see you’ve told yourself a whole story that justifies leaving me to fend for myself . Bat ethese were already all of m biggest fears. You are the only one the only one that can help and that I needed to see me. I depended on you and you let me crash to the floor. You didn’t take a turn to hold me up and help me through the worst…the better or worst. Why didn’t I get that fro you when can it to you so often and so easily? Please tell me why I deserve nothing? Why you’ve left me either nothing? This is too muchBe for any of this got this bad I begged and begged you to help me. And I the end in begged you to help me. Why is this what you chose? So extreme so much cruelty. I am human I am a human being and I needed you. Please look inside and see all of the things that got twisted together that you’re using to have chosen not being there for me. For walking away every day for two years when I was devastated and needing you. For never staying home and saying we’re going to get you through this. I won’t leave you I won’t walk away. I’ll take care of us. I’ll fight when you’re weak. You left me everyday knowing I needed you. Seeing everyday how is was degrading. That degrading got us here’s the degrading from pushing me self too far. Please remember why I was still here pushing myself . It’s real nate ..that it broke me to stay. When I kept describing it 5 years ago, 3 years again. Did you hear me did you listen do you remember? I said I’m so scared I’m so scared because I can feel it all happening. I needed you to protect me  It was your turn. Even when things get so bad and soeeosnis in so much need. You promised me. And  you know my life, you know my little girl…who I was and what I went through. I needed the protect from you before the damage of all that took me away. I needed you to stop and to keep the demons from taking me. Why do other get that and I get this. What is so undeserving and inherently bad about me that I can’t seem to ever be the one that gets saved or valued even when I’m falling apart. Please see you turned left instead of right. Please help me so our girls don’t have this as their story. Please see something of this. Please see that I was getting more and more damaged by not having you. THIS wasn’t the answer.…I’ve been careening down this highway and I needed you to stop it and get me to safety. You just never saw the the solution was you. Even if as you say you can’t be both the problem and solution. But I disagree. It’s exactly that. And I lay there for two years waiting for you to come and pick  me up. But you let each day pass wondering why I couldn’t fix myself for YOU. I don’t thing you ever saw that it was you..your turn your struggle be there in good times and bad. Just because you did stuff does mean you did the things that would save me. II couldn’t save myself. Don’t to see? I still can’t. I lost myself and I needed you ..YOU to help me find my way back. I thought I was coming home to you  for all of that to finally start. “
[/i]

The she writes this which is a detail I’ve never heard before

“You just win. Everything. Like I’ve said..I’m not actually strong. When I was little, sometimes it was easier to just lay there untik they were done hitting me. There was no way to fight. So I had to just let it happen to me. I know how to do that. I cant be this person that learned to fight snd protect myself anymore. I don’t have anything left. I’m going to just lay down until it’s over. Until the job is done. “

Throughout the time referenced in the first text, essentially the last five years, I tried to hang in there. I took abuse and relentless pointed mean nasty criticism and blame. And I used to buy into the narrative that it was my fault. I also used to want her to understand my perspective. Now I know she never will. I used to want to swipe back angrily retorting “you hit me (etc)!”

Everything I did I knew would hurt her deeply but I used my best judgment to keep my kids safe. My lawyers are effing up that short term plan. What am I suppose to say? Sorry you’re hurt but I had to do what I did? I do care about her pain. I do worry about her. And of course this level of reqctive vulnerability is so infuriating because it’s manipulative emotional blackmail but also because if she’d been willing to be open maybe we could have been better.

So I don’t know what to say. I can’t educate her. I can’t genuinely comfort her. I’m not going back to her. And skip is right when she moves to anger it’s giving to be horrible.

[livednlearned]

Do you have a concern she might harm herself?

[AlleyOop23]

No. She’s not actually threatening that. Which she’s done. Recently, she threatened suicide and I wasn’t home, so I called the police and headed home. She denied that’s what she meant. the police really couldn’t do anything.

[kells76]

Am I reading correctly that she texted this:

Please help me I can’t function. I am blindsided by this. Please go to intensive Merrill counseling with me. I thought we were working on this.

and was requesting marriage counseling?

[AlleyOop23]

Yes. She sent me a website about a marriage intensive counseling after ignoring one I sent her about family counseling, and coparenting counseling.

[livednlearned]

For now, maybe we can help you brainstorm a phrase that holds space for you while she processes.

It's ok to say you need to take space and time to center yourself. Your focus is to be a steadying presence for the kids.  

She's on tilt right now so less will be more, but saying nothing will likely be unmanageable for her.  

Others might have more suggestions for good phrases that can help you BIFF your way forward.  

If you find her messages are interfering with your ability to get centered, it might help to not read them -- have someone else read them. They can let you know what if anything requires a response.

You won't stop her from using text/email to express pain but over time you may see improvements. My son's father went from 100 percent abusive, long texts to 25 percent abusive during periods of relative calm, back up to ~50 percent as the court stuff moved forward. I had emails forwarded to a friend and batch read texts from him once a day in the company of a trusted friend. It's important to find ways to manage your own nervous system.

[AlleyOop23]

Omg she won’t stop texting. It just goes on and on and on. She’s just sitting and texting all her thoughts endlessly. I don’t understand how someone at some point does realize - wow I’ve been texting for hours maybe I should think about this as an issue just by itself.

[Tangled mangled]

AlleyOop,

She’s very ill, but the worst thing is she won’t receive advice to go to therapy even though her life depends on it.

Set yourself free, you already have, you didn’t cause it, you can’t cure it and you are definitely not the cause and the cure.
She’s highly dysregulated, even the text structure proves this. My concern is for your daughters who will have to deal with some of this. She dove appear in a position to put their needs ahead of theirs, I hope they received some warning about her impending dysregulation.
This brings back memories of one of my own parents numerous conflicts- at the time my dad was living abroad while mum was the main parent. I had to type her email ( days of internet cafe) my dad and it sounded like this text you have shared. I was 17 at the time, boy did I rush in to rescue her. Those I was praying for them to divorce- they are still married and my mum is still wrecking every one’s who comes too close to her vortex. In her mid sixties and going strong.


It’s going to be a really tough one to for you and the girls, you are doing great, just ensure you continue to distance yourself from the vortex- she’s not as helpless as she appears, if you get concerned about her safety, and I see that in your future, going by her texts- do not he’s to call the police to do a wellness check. It might be the reality check she needs. Do it as often as she threatens.
My stxh also refused counselling to help make the separation less contentious- he kept insisting on marriage counselling like we must stay married.
He actually told me he won’t sign the divorce papers as we had to stay together to pay up the mortgage- it sounds as silly as that.

Stay strong and do what you can to respond and not react- keep your self emotionally safe.

[Skip]

It's really important that we stay centered in a situation like this. That's not easy in divorce. A lot of damage can be done in the divorce process that will carry forward in the years of co-parenting.

I'm here, like everyone else, to support you. Part of that is helping you stay centered. That might feel like a slap from time to time, but we want the best outcomes for you and the best confidants are those who are straight with you.

My SBX has gone full in on. Please help me I can’t function. I am blindsided by this. Please go to intensive Merrill counseling with me. I thought we were working on this.  

I don't think it serves you well to feel blindsided right now. Yes, the emotional stuff you were trying to avoid has surfaced in another way and you hate that (everyone does). Yes, you had reasons for launching the divorce that way you did and you knew it was going to be earth shattering for her and that there would be collateral damage (here friends). But its probably more that your plan didn't go as designed than she blindsided you.

Member's here have coached others who have been on the receiving side of the "grenade" and their reaction is pretty much what you are seeing now with your wife.

The reason I say it won't serves you well to feel blindsided right now, is because those feeling might drive you to drop another grenade and amp things up more.

  The more contentious the divorce, the higher the likelihood of a Disney dad schedule - which is not your objective.

A lot of members here know what she is going through and what you are going through and may have pointers for tactics to avoid unnecessarily amping things up.

Yes. She sent me a website about a marriage intensive counseling after ignoring one I sent her about family counseling, and coparenting counseling.

You both are proposing counseling. There is potentially an opportunity here to consider.

It's a reasonable tactic to enter into counseling and after a few sessions (or even up front) tell the therapist that you aren't feeling it and want help steering her to acceptance of divorce and discussing the interests of the kids.

Her texts are a like a mommy wolf baying at the moon at night after losing her babies. You don't need to save her or soothe her, but understand what is happening and adjust.

Does it still make sense to do a protective order (not a rhetorical question) or should you focus on getting agreement on temporary orders?

[ForeverDad]

Wow, what a long text.  One would think that a person could use paragraphs in their texts or emails.  My impression is that many with BPD get on emotion-laden rants and can't parse or punctuate themselves.

Another thought I had is that my ex was a very aggressive self-proclaimed "victim".  I felt that somehow "aggressive" and "victim" don't go together.  If she's able to vent so strongly then she not fearful of you.

Recently, she threatened suicide and I wasn’t home, so I called the police and headed home. She denied that’s what she meant. the police really couldn’t do anything.

If she did it by email or text (or it was witnessed by others) then she really couldn't deny it.  You could prove proof to counter her denial.

You did well by reporting it but it's also to be expected the position the responders were in.