Avoiding triangulation... at all costs!

[Our abuse recovery guide]

For the past 15 years or so, my uBPD brother has tried to triangulate me in his relationship with our mom pretty much constantly. Unfortunately, I think he did it initially because I was falling in his trap, as I was young and unaware of anything like BPD and so.
15 years of: "tell mum to stop doing so and so", "tell her to give me money", etc etc.

I have slowly stopped responding to this. But he keeps asking, without an end. Now, my mom has reached the end of her patience, and she has her own flaws, like everyone else. When she snaps, she snaps, and she just talks like you would to a "normal person", with angry tone, accusations, etc etc. I know this does not help, particularly with BPD people, but I have told her several times, and feel like I am in no position to tell her anything anymore.
Now, my brother keeps telling me every single time she tells him anything remotely bad. And of course in his mind I should run to scold mum, or I am the worst in the world or something.
I have decided to completely stop intervening, whatever they do/say. They are adults and can sort it out by themselves. Sometimes, I still feel bad, though. Of course, he comes up with serious things (e.g. "she instigated my suicide") and this leaves me with a sense of... Am I doing the right thing? I think I am, because I know from experience that if I tell my mom, she will say she did not say it, or said something slightly different etc etc. And I know he can, without necessarily saying any lie, spin anything somebody says to make it seem worse than it is. So, if I have not witnessed something, I decided to just keep out of it, as serious as the allegations might be.

At the same time, whether she said these things or not, I know that's what he's feeling. I generally try these days to say "I am sorry you had to feel like that, it must be tough, but I am not intervening in your relationship with mom, you are adults and you have to sort it out yourselves".  This usually starts a huge confrontation that I leave as soon as he starts insulting me (I have a "I will not respond as soon as you insult me" policy).

The other complication is that he keeps wanting to dictate what our parents should do to get help because of their age. I actually think as well they should get some help, but I only try to gently tell them I am here for them, that I am a bit worried, etc. He instead wants to force them, goes behind their back to contact assistance companies, etc etc. And, of course, tries to use me to convince them and I am a monster that doesn't care about them if I don't do what he wants.

I hate all of this, all the temptatives to destroy this and other relationships.

[Strawberry29]

For the past 15 years or so, my uBPD brother has tried to triangulate me in his relationship with our mom pretty much constantly. Unfortunately, I think he did it initially because I was falling in his trap, as I was young and unaware of anything like BPD and so.
15 years of: "tell mum to stop doing so and so", "tell her to give me money", etc etc.

I have slowly stopped responding to this. But he keeps asking, without an end. Now, my mom has reached the end of her patience, and she has her own flaws, like everyone else. When she snaps, she snaps, and she just talks like you would to a "normal person", with angry tone, accusations, etc etc. I know this does not help, particularly with BPD people, but I have told her several times, and feel like I am in no position to tell her anything anymore.
Now, my brother keeps telling me every single time she tells him anything remotely bad. And of course in his mind I should run to scold mum, or I am the worst in the world or something.
I have decided to completely stop intervening, whatever they do/say. They are adults and can sort it out by themselves. Sometimes, I still feel bad, though. Of course, he comes up with serious things (e.g. "she instigated my suicide") and this leaves me with a sense of... Am I doing the right thing? I think I am, because I know from experience that if I tell my mom, she will say she did not say it, or said something slightly different etc etc. And I know he can, without necessarily saying any lie, spin anything somebody says to make it seem worse than it is. So, if I have not witnessed something, I decided to just keep out of it, as serious as the allegations might be.

At the same time, whether she said these things or not, I know that's what he's feeling. I generally try these days to say "I am sorry you had to feel like that, it must be tough, but I am not intervening in your relationship with mom, you are adults and you have to sort it out yourselves".  This usually starts a huge confrontation that I leave as soon as he starts insulting me (I have a "I will not respond as soon as you insult me" policy).

The other complication is that he keeps wanting to dictate what our parents should do to get help because of their age. I actually think as well they should get some help, but I only try to gently tell them I am here for them, that I am a bit worried, etc. He instead wants to force them, goes behind their back to contact assistance companies, etc etc. And, of course, tries to use me to convince them and I am a monster that doesn't care about them if I don't do what he wants.

I hate all of this, all the temptatives to destroy this and other relationships.

[kells76]

Wow, that sounds exhausting.

Good to hear you're more willing to decline to participate. You're right -- everyone involved is an adult, and adults get to manage their own relationships, even if they manage them poorly.

Now, my brother keeps telling me every single time she tells him anything remotely bad.

How does he tell you? Phone call? Text? Email? In person?

I generally try these days to say "I am sorry you had to feel like that, it must be tough, but I am not intervening in your relationship with mom, you are adults and you have to sort it out yourselves".  

Good validation beginning.

Sometimes, when we validate and then say "....but....", we inadvertently invalidate. To my eyes, there are two ways forward, after saying "I am sorry you had to feel like that, it must be tough."

One is... to end it there. There's no requirement that you explain to him that you aren't intervening any more. You validate "gosh, that would have been hard" and then... leave it in his lap.

The other is... not to say "It must have been tough, but I'm not helping any more" -- like you mentioned, instead of him cooling off because of feeling understood, he instead winds up because of the (possible) inadvertent invalidation of "...but XYZ". If you really think you need to add an explanation, it could look like:

"It must have been tough to feel that way. I'm not able to say anything to Mom; what do you think you'll do?"

That avoids the "but", makes a statement of your boundary, and puts responsibility back in his lap.

For me personally, I'd lean towards option #1, but () depending on your personal values and willingness to engage with him, perhaps #2 could work.

What do you think?

...

he keeps wanting to dictate what our parents should do to get help because of their age. I actually think as well they should get some help, but I only try to gently tell them I am here for them, that I am a bit worried, etc. He instead wants to force them, goes behind their back to contact assistance companies, etc etc. And, of course, tries to use me to convince them and I am a monster that doesn't care about them if I don't do what he wants.

Have your parents made any legal decisions about who has power of attorney, etc?

[TelHill]

Strawberry,

I really feel for you. My FOO is a pain to deal with.

I have slowly stopped responding to this. But he keeps asking, without an end. Now, my mom has reached the end of her patience, and she has her own flaws, like everyone else. When she snaps, she snaps, and she just talks like you would to a "normal person", with angry tone, accusations, etc etc. I know this does not help, particularly with BPD people, but I have told her several times, and feel like I am in no position to tell her anything anymore.

What's helped for me is going permanently gray rock with my bpd mom and my (passive aggressive-perhaps bpd) older brother. I'm sorry, that's too bad, aww, ohhh is my script with them. Any other shade of emotion or encouraging word gives them an opening to interrogate me about my attitude or this:

he starts insulting me

The other complication is that he keeps wanting to dictate what our parents should do to get help because of their age. I actually think as well they should get some help, but I only try to gently tell them I am here for them, that I am a bit worried, etc.

I'd do the same. You can't force your parents to do anything they don't want to do.

He instead wants to force them, goes behind their back to contact assistance companies, etc etc. And, of course, tries to use me to convince them and I am a monster that doesn't care about them if I don't do what he wants.

I hate all of this, all the temptatives to destroy this and other relationships.

It's tempting to want to do something to help your parents to avoid a problematic situation your brother might put them into.  Would your parents accept his guidance without question? Would they continue to accept his suggestions if they get burned from a less than honest care company?  I don't think they would. Maybe letting your parents deal with the consequences of their actions might help them more in the long run.