Ex gf behaviour

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I have found this site very interesting and informative and would like to share my story as I think BPD traits could be present.
 
I met a girl through an online dating app almost three years ago now and we had contact for a month or two but never met due to the traveling nature of both her and my job. I did, however, sense that a lot of the communication didn't make sense. E.g. she suddenly said she was moving to a neighbouring country the day after she said she loved our country so much. To be honest I wondered if this was a real person at all, and just faded away so the conversation stopped. At this time, we were chatting on WhatsApp, so I had her number.
 
Then almost 6 months later we ran into each other by coincidence on a regional flight. We immediately recognised each other but didn't talk due to our seats being in different areas of the plane. She did however come walking down the aisle and smiling and flirting during the flight. Afterwards I sent her a WhatsApp message (I had kept her number) and she was extremely intense and interested in meeting straight away (I had already left the airport by then). She apologised her strange behaviour 6 months earlier and claimed it was because someone was stalking her, and was afraid it was me (in aftermath, another red flag….). Anyway, we planned to meet the next day, but she had to cancel due to being called for work. Then it was a lot back and forth.
We finally met at a bar a few weeks later (she cancelled 10 minutes before, but showed up as I said I was waiting there already) and we spent an hour together talking. A few days later I asked her out for dinner, and again a lot of push/pull from her side. I then put some pressure on her, and she then came to the city centre for dinner the same day. We had a really good time, and she was clear on her objective of starting a family withing 3-4 years (natural due to her being in her early 30s). I really sensed we had chemistry, and she was obviously charmed, and I asked her a few days later if she would come to my place for dinner. She said she would, but then 1 hour before our date she cancelled again. I had everything set up and was a bit frustrated of course. Then we texted a bit back and forth, she said she would come - then wanted to postpone… Then she suddenly went dead silent and didn't answer my phone call and never showed up. At this time, I was fed up and texted her a few days later but no reply. Then a week later she suddenly texted me and wanted to meet for dinner again, and "explained" she had gone to visit her family in another part of the country instead. (No apologise, just an explanation.) I was hesitant and she immediately got a bit aggressive and didn't accept that. I gave in and made a new appointment. This time I had a backup plan the same evening due to my previous experience. Guess what - she never turned up, and she didn't even give notice!
 
At that point I was shocked and by her behaviour and we just sent a few texts after that. Again, she never apologised, just came up with some explanation I really can't remember what was.
 
Then, I (stupidly, but I really missed her) sent a text to her 6 months later and she was again very positive and wanted to meet. She said she was afraid the last time but should have told me - but now she was in a different place (again - no apology). I fell for this, and two weeks later I went to her hometown and met in a hotel. We spent that weekend together, and the next weekend. She came to my hometown and stayed there for a few days and several weekends during the next two months. Things escalated quickly (I guess I was idealised), and she talked a lot about having a baby (which made me proceed with caution). I guess this was the love bombing stage, and I was of course over the moon at this point. I even asked her to be exclusive, and she wanted that as well. I noticed, however, that something wasn't right, e.g.:
 
•   She was suspicious of me having cameras in the bedroom.
•   Obsessed with my ex and forced me to show a picture of her
•   Once she heard a noise from the living room and immediately asked if I had a crazy ex with keys to the apartment
•   She accused me of surveilling her (which I didn't). Once I drove her to a neighbouring town where she was to meet a co-worker but told me stop by an apartment block. On the way there she said there was a dashboard light in her car that had illuminated. I told her I could check this out, but then she turned aggressive and accused me of not believing that she had parked her car where she said it was parked. I was quite perplexed so just dropped her off and went back.
•   Another time she was in a hotel near the airport, and I called her in the morning to wish her a nice flight. She sounded strange when she answered and was noticeably short. Immediately after we hung up, I got a text from her saying "You just wanted to check where I was?".
•   Extremely impulsive. Suddenly she could say she wanted to change her career, then not work at all, and stay at home with her future kids etc. Then she said she wanted to live in 4-5 different countries / cities, travel to another continent the following week etc.
•   Change of moods: Once on our way to a restaurant, she suddenly was angry for something I did earlier that day and starter making plans with her gay friend instead of me. Then 10 minutes later she was happy again and called off those plans and spent the night with me as planned. Interestingly, she was living at my place for the weekend, so I am not sure how she had planned that out.
 
Anyway, I really was in love with this woman (or the idea of her I had created in my mind), so I wanted to give her a chance. Fast forward and she called me from a work trip abroad in the evening saying she wanted to start a new life with family and kids, and hoped I was the man she would do this with. Then she added that she was depressed. I said I also wanted this, and I suggested we discussed this when she came to my place the next weekend. She didn't come as she wasn't feeling well, and I noticed her started pulling away and called her to have a talk. She then said she wanted to be single, and that family was not that important to her anyways. Also, she started accusing me of creating plans to establish a future in my hometown where she didn't want to live. I politely said this was not the case, and she then went on saying I kept asking where she was all the time. This was not correct either, but when she called when traveling I felt it was natural to ask where she currently was. I felt like she was projecting her issues on me, and not being honest at all.
 
Anyway, I said I was sad to hear that she didn't want to continue. She added the usual BS that she didn't want to lose what he had and so on. I then went cold turkey, and three weeks later she contacted me saying she was thinking about me. We texted a little back and forth - still eager to meet me. A few months later I asked her about a restaurant in her hometown and she immediately asked if I was going there without meeting her. A bit surprised I said I was not under the impression she wanted that. Then a few days later she wrote "this conversation is not leading anywhere, wish you all the best". I didn't reply but felt this was really strange and reached out saying I was surprised how she suddenly felt. She then blocked me, and two months later I see her posing with a new boyfriend clearly posing to indicate she's pregnant (which I found out she is). I also found out the new boyfriend is a senior / manager in the same company she works. I immediately felt cheated on and deceived, as I believe it's obvious that she had this relationship going on at the same time as with me. This was much
tougher than the actual breakup even though we weren't together for more than a few months. I know I should have cut her off earlier, but it's not easy when things are going on.
 
Finally, I decided to let her know I knew what she had been up to and sent her a text explaining that I had been honest with her, and my intention with her was real (with establishing a family etc.) and wished her good luck. I also added that I knew about her new situation, and that being dishonest is not best thing to do over time. She then replied immediately claiming she didn't understand what I was talking about, and that we just went on a few dates. Then she sent another aggressive message saying that I could talk to her boyfriend if I wanted to, but that it wasn't going to be pleasant. I never replied of course, and she blocked me.

Based on what I've read on this site I recognise some of this behaviour as BPD traits, but it would be interesting to hear some feedback from you guys. Also, I am still feeling a bit down after this experience, and I wondered if anyone could share some tips on moving on?

[dalrym]

I have found this site very interesting and informative and would like to share my story as I think BPD traits could be present.
 
I met a girl through an online dating app almost three years ago now and we had contact for a month or two but never met due to the traveling nature of both her and my job. I did, however, sense that a lot of the communication didn't make sense. E.g. she suddenly said she was moving to a neighbouring country the day after she said she loved our country so much. To be honest I wondered if this was a real person at all, and just faded away so the conversation stopped. At this time, we were chatting on WhatsApp, so I had her number.
 
Then almost 6 months later we ran into each other by coincidence on a regional flight. We immediately recognised each other but didn't talk due to our seats being in different areas of the plane. She did however come walking down the aisle and smiling and flirting during the flight. Afterwards I sent her a WhatsApp message (I had kept her number) and she was extremely intense and interested in meeting straight away (I had already left the airport by then). She apologised her strange behaviour 6 months earlier and claimed it was because someone was stalking her, and was afraid it was me (in aftermath, another red flag….). Anyway, we planned to meet the next day, but she had to cancel due to being called for work. Then it was a lot back and forth.
We finally met at a bar a few weeks later (she cancelled 10 minutes before, but showed up as I said I was waiting there already) and we spent an hour together talking. A few days later I asked her out for dinner, and again a lot of push/pull from her side. I then put some pressure on her, and she then came to the city centre for dinner the same day. We had a really good time, and she was clear on her objective of starting a family withing 3-4 years (natural due to her being in her early 30s). I really sensed we had chemistry, and she was obviously charmed, and I asked her a few days later if she would come to my place for dinner. She said she would, but then 1 hour before our date she cancelled again. I had everything set up and was a bit frustrated of course. Then we texted a bit back and forth, she said she would come - then wanted to postpone… Then she suddenly went dead silent and didn't answer my phone call and never showed up. At this time, I was fed up and texted her a few days later but no reply. Then a week later she suddenly texted me and wanted to meet for dinner again, and "explained" she had gone to visit her family in another part of the country instead. (No apologise, just an explanation.) I was hesitant and she immediately got a bit aggressive and didn't accept that. I gave in and made a new appointment. This time I had a backup plan the same evening due to my previous experience. Guess what - she never turned up, and she didn't even give notice!
 
At that point I was shocked and by her behaviour and we just sent a few texts after that. Again, she never apologised, just came up with some explanation I really can't remember what was.
 
Then, I (stupidly, but I really missed her) sent a text to her 6 months later and she was again very positive and wanted to meet. She said she was afraid the last time but should have told me - but now she was in a different place (again - no apology). I fell for this, and two weeks later I went to her hometown and met in a hotel. We spent that weekend together, and the next weekend. She came to my hometown and stayed there for a few days and several weekends during the next two months. Things escalated quickly (I guess I was idealised), and she talked a lot about having a baby (which made me proceed with caution). I guess this was the love bombing stage, and I was of course over the moon at this point. I even asked her to be exclusive, and she wanted that as well. I noticed, however, that something wasn't right, e.g.:
 
•   She was suspicious of me having cameras in the bedroom.
•   Obsessed with my ex and forced me to show a picture of her
•   Once she heard a noise from the living room and immediately asked if I had a crazy ex with keys to the apartment
•   She accused me of surveilling her (which I didn't). Once I drove her to a neighbouring town where she was to meet a co-worker but told me stop by an apartment block. On the way there she said there was a dashboard light in her car that had illuminated. I told her I could check this out, but then she turned aggressive and accused me of not believing that she had parked her car where she said it was parked. I was quite perplexed so just dropped her off and went back.
•   Another time she was in a hotel near the airport, and I called her in the morning to wish her a nice flight. She sounded strange when she answered and was noticeably short. Immediately after we hung up, I got a text from her saying "You just wanted to check where I was?".
•   Extremely impulsive. Suddenly she could say she wanted to change her career, then not work at all, and stay at home with her future kids etc. Then she said she wanted to live in 4-5 different countries / cities, travel to another continent the following week etc.
•   Change of moods: Once on our way to a restaurant, she suddenly was angry for something I did earlier that day and starter making plans with her gay friend instead of me. Then 10 minutes later she was happy again and called off those plans and spent the night with me as planned. Interestingly, she was living at my place for the weekend, so I am not sure how she had planned that out.
 
Anyway, I really was in love with this woman (or the idea of her I had created in my mind), so I wanted to give her a chance. Fast forward and she called me from a work trip abroad in the evening saying she wanted to start a new life with family and kids, and hoped I was the man she would do this with. Then she added that she was depressed. I said I also wanted this, and I suggested we discussed this when she came to my place the next weekend. She didn't come as she wasn't feeling well, and I noticed her started pulling away and called her to have a talk. She then said she wanted to be single, and that family was not that important to her anyways. Also, she started accusing me of creating plans to establish a future in my hometown where she didn't want to live. I politely said this was not the case, and she then went on saying I kept asking where she was all the time. This was not correct either, but when she called when traveling I felt it was natural to ask where she currently was. I felt like she was projecting her issues on me, and not being honest at all.
 
Anyway, I said I was sad to hear that she didn't want to continue. She added the usual BS that she didn't want to lose what he had and so on. I then went cold turkey, and three weeks later she contacted me saying she was thinking about me. We texted a little back and forth - still eager to meet me. A few months later I asked her about a restaurant in her hometown and she immediately asked if I was going there without meeting her. A bit surprised I said I was not under the impression she wanted that. Then a few days later she wrote "this conversation is not leading anywhere, wish you all the best". I didn't reply but felt this was really strange and reached out saying I was surprised how she suddenly felt. She then blocked me, and two months later I see her posing with a new boyfriend clearly posing to indicate she's pregnant (which I found out she is). I also found out the new boyfriend is a senior / manager in the same company she works. I immediately felt cheated on and deceived, as I believe it's obvious that she had this relationship going on at the same time as with me. This was much
tougher than the actual breakup even though we weren't together for more than a few months. I know I should have cut her off earlier, but it's not easy when things are going on.
 
Finally, I decided to let her know I knew what she had been up to and sent her a text explaining that I had been honest with her, and my intention with her was real (with establishing a family etc.) and wished her good luck. I also added that I knew about her new situation, and that being dishonest is not best thing to do over time. She then replied immediately claiming she didn't understand what I was talking about, and that we just went on a few dates. Then she sent another aggressive message saying that I could talk to her boyfriend if I wanted to, but that it wasn't going to be pleasant. I never replied of course, and she blocked me.

Based on what I've read on this site I recognise some of this behaviour as BPD traits, but it would be interesting to hear some feedback from you guys. Also, I am still feeling a bit down after this experience, and I wondered if anyone could share some tips on moving on?

[dalrym]

Does anyone have any perspective on this?

[kells76]

Hi dalrym and

You're among friends here -- so many members have experienced the same roller coaster you were on. The disjointedness stood out to me, how after all you two went through, she could say she "didn't understand what you were talking about". I've experienced that with my H's kids' mom (she has many BPD type traits).

In a sense, even if what's going on isn't labeled or diagnosed as BPD, the real issue isn't what it's called, it's that the behaviors and actions are so difficult. Maybe that can be part of your processing -- taking a moment to figure out if you can be OK with not knowing if it was "really" BPD or not, because again, the issue isn't what it's called, it's how it affected you, and how it seems to have left you feeling so down.

That can be an important step in your grieving and healing journey: not trying to escape the pain and loss and grief and hurt, but allowing yourself to feel those feelings instead of stuffing them away. I haven't heard of any way to accelerate the process; the only way out is through the feelings.

Have you had a chance to check out some of the Lessons on Detaching From the Wounds of a Failed BPD Relationship yet? You could consider starting at "Healing, the big picture" and seeing if that resonates with you at all.

...

Has she tried to contact you at all, in the last week or so?

[dalrym]

Thanks for your insights. I will look into those links and see if it does help.

I agree that it's not important what this behaviour might be labeled or categorised as. However, based on my limited knowledge I believe this reminds somewhat of BPD (or at least BPD personality traits). I am fully aware that I am not in any position to diagnose anyone, but I found this behaviour quite extreme and haven't really experienced something like this before. 

Reagarding her reaction to my last message, I assume this is her gaslighting me to try to downplay / deny our history in order to "come clean" if her new boyfriend got this info somehow. It probably would raise some questions from his side that might be hard for her to answer given the timeline of everything. She hasn't contacted me since that (4 weeks ago), and I am quite sure she never will (at least that's what i hope). Why would she do that when she's pregnant with her new boyfriend?

[dalrym]

It would be interesting to see if my story aligns with BPD behaviour. I haven’t really experienced something like this before, and to be honest I am really doubting myself at the moment.

[Kashi]

Ummm cameras in the bedroom?

What do you mean?

[seekingtheway]

I don't feel qualified to answer this properly, but my very unqualified thoughts to reading your post is that your ex has some really deep trauma... and there could be a cocktail of different things going on for her - which could potentially include CPTSD/ fearful avoidant attachment/BPD or potentially one of the other cluster B personalities... it's so hard to say because you're listing a very diverse range of behaviours there, some of them definitely ring some bells for BPD, but some others might fall under different labels.

The thing that made me think it was less BPD than other stories I've read is how hard it was for you to get close to her initially and she kept running away even then, whereas many other people with BPD will act in ways that accelerate the relationship from the beginning, and the problems start once the fear of abandonment of engulfment kicks in... often a little way in. But not everyone with BPD is the same, and i really have no idea if this is a pattern others on this board might have seen.

I think it's true to say that what you went through has probably really befuddled and confused your brain - it would do that to anyone after all of the chaos, betrayal and lies.

I get why you'd want to pick it apart a little bit and figure out what the heck just happened to you.

I'm sorry I can't give you a better answer, but it does sound for sure like it's something fairly significant and serious. I hope you find some answers and healing... either with others on the board or with a therapist who might be able to help you unravel some of it.

[dalrym]

Regarding cameras in the bedroom it was something she asked me about to make sure she wasn't being filmed I suppose ? On the same topic it's worth mentioning she told me that in her early 20s, she had installed a small camera to spy on her boyfriend in their apartment to see if he cheated on her while being away. Paranoia has obviously been present for a long time.

Yes, I also believe this is a complicated issue, and whether it's BPD or not is hard to say. It took a long time to get her responding properly, but I still believe I experienced the idealization phase when we started spending several days and weekends together for a few months.

I do remember another episode that I find interesting; One day she seemed euphoric - e.g. she had this blank stare and smiling all the time. I even had to hold her hand while eating at a restaurant because she had to be physically close to me all the time. I remember I thought it was really strange and it felt over the top at the time. And no, I am quite sure no drugs were involved.

Regarding trauma she acutally bust into tears when talking about her childhood, beacuse she hated her step father and was worried what had happened to her little sister after she had moved out. She insisted something didn't happen to her, but she clearly had some very bad experiences from her childhood that i didn't want to push further on.

The hardest part is that she said she would start a family with me, and then ended the relationship without a genuine explanation. Also, that she now is pregnant with her boyfriend (who is divorced with three kids) is confusing. She asked several times in the beginning if I had kids (even though I told her upfront) because that was a dealbreaker for her.

So yes - trying to understand why it happened this way is not easy. I am sure it would have been a nightmare to start a family with her, but I still have  wounds after this experience. Hopefully time heals everything...

[Kashi]

Oh ok she thought you had cameras in the bedroom, but you don't

Phew!   

[dalrym]

No, I don’t  . I am not exactly a dodgy person either, so I think it’s not me that was triggering the paranoia.

[SinisterComplex]

I have found this site very interesting and informative and would like to share my story as I think BPD traits could be present.
 
I met a girl through an online dating app almost three years ago now and we had contact for a month or two but never met due to the traveling nature of both her and my job. I did, however, sense that a lot of the communication didn't make sense. E.g. she suddenly said she was moving to a neighbouring country the day after she said she loved our country so much. To be honest I wondered if this was a real person at all, and just faded away so the conversation stopped. At this time, we were chatting on WhatsApp, so I had her number.
 
Then almost 6 months later we ran into each other by coincidence on a regional flight. We immediately recognised each other but didn't talk due to our seats being in different areas of the plane. She did however come walking down the aisle and smiling and flirting during the flight. Afterwards I sent her a WhatsApp message (I had kept her number) and she was extremely intense and interested in meeting straight away (I had already left the airport by then). She apologised her strange behaviour 6 months earlier and claimed it was because someone was stalking her, and was afraid it was me (in aftermath, another red flag….). Anyway, we planned to meet the next day, but she had to cancel due to being called for work. Then it was a lot back and forth.
We finally met at a bar a few weeks later (she cancelled 10 minutes before, but showed up as I said I was waiting there already) and we spent an hour together talking. A few days later I asked her out for dinner, and again a lot of push/pull from her side. I then put some pressure on her, and she then came to the city centre for dinner the same day. We had a really good time, and she was clear on her objective of starting a family withing 3-4 years (natural due to her being in her early 30s). I really sensed we had chemistry, and she was obviously charmed, and I asked her a few days later if she would come to my place for dinner. She said she would, but then 1 hour before our date she cancelled again. I had everything set up and was a bit frustrated of course. Then we texted a bit back and forth, she said she would come - then wanted to postpone… Then she suddenly went dead silent and didn't answer my phone call and never showed up. At this time, I was fed up and texted her a few days later but no reply. Then a week later she suddenly texted me and wanted to meet for dinner again, and "explained" she had gone to visit her family in another part of the country instead. (No apologise, just an explanation.) I was hesitant and she immediately got a bit aggressive and didn't accept that. I gave in and made a new appointment. This time I had a backup plan the same evening due to my previous experience. Guess what - she never turned up, and she didn't even give notice!
 
At that point I was shocked and by her behaviour and we just sent a few texts after that. Again, she never apologised, just came up with some explanation I really can't remember what was.
 
Then, I (stupidly, but I really missed her) sent a text to her 6 months later and she was again very positive and wanted to meet. She said she was afraid the last time but should have told me - but now she was in a different place (again - no apology). I fell for this, and two weeks later I went to her hometown and met in a hotel. We spent that weekend together, and the next weekend. She came to my hometown and stayed there for a few days and several weekends during the next two months. Things escalated quickly (I guess I was idealised), and she talked a lot about having a baby (which made me proceed with caution). I guess this was the love bombing stage, and I was of course over the moon at this point. I even asked her to be exclusive, and she wanted that as well. I noticed, however, that something wasn't right, e.g.:
 
•   She was suspicious of me having cameras in the bedroom.
•   Obsessed with my ex and forced me to show a picture of her
•   Once she heard a noise from the living room and immediately asked if I had a crazy ex with keys to the apartment
•   She accused me of surveilling her (which I didn't). Once I drove her to a neighbouring town where she was to meet a co-worker but told me stop by an apartment block. On the way there she said there was a dashboard light in her car that had illuminated. I told her I could check this out, but then she turned aggressive and accused me of not believing that she had parked her car where she said it was parked. I was quite perplexed so just dropped her off and went back.
•   Another time she was in a hotel near the airport, and I called her in the morning to wish her a nice flight. She sounded strange when she answered and was noticeably short. Immediately after we hung up, I got a text from her saying "You just wanted to check where I was?".
•   Extremely impulsive. Suddenly she could say she wanted to change her career, then not work at all, and stay at home with her future kids etc. Then she said she wanted to live in 4-5 different countries / cities, travel to another continent the following week etc.
•   Change of moods: Once on our way to a restaurant, she suddenly was angry for something I did earlier that day and starter making plans with her gay friend instead of me. Then 10 minutes later she was happy again and called off those plans and spent the night with me as planned. Interestingly, she was living at my place for the weekend, so I am not sure how she had planned that out.
 
Anyway, I really was in love with this woman (or the idea of her I had created in my mind), so I wanted to give her a chance. Fast forward and she called me from a work trip abroad in the evening saying she wanted to start a new life with family and kids, and hoped I was the man she would do this with. Then she added that she was depressed. I said I also wanted this, and I suggested we discussed this when she came to my place the next weekend. She didn't come as she wasn't feeling well, and I noticed her started pulling away and called her to have a talk. She then said she wanted to be single, and that family was not that important to her anyways. Also, she started accusing me of creating plans to establish a future in my hometown where she didn't want to live. I politely said this was not the case, and she then went on saying I kept asking where she was all the time. This was not correct either, but when she called when traveling I felt it was natural to ask where she currently was. I felt like she was projecting her issues on me, and not being honest at all.
 
Anyway, I said I was sad to hear that she didn't want to continue. She added the usual BS that she didn't want to lose what he had and so on. I then went cold turkey, and three weeks later she contacted me saying she was thinking about me. We texted a little back and forth - still eager to meet me. A few months later I asked her about a restaurant in her hometown and she immediately asked if I was going there without meeting her. A bit surprised I said I was not under the impression she wanted that. Then a few days later she wrote "this conversation is not leading anywhere, wish you all the best". I didn't reply but felt this was really strange and reached out saying I was surprised how she suddenly felt. She then blocked me, and two months later I see her posing with a new boyfriend clearly posing to indicate she's pregnant (which I found out she is). I also found out the new boyfriend is a senior / manager in the same company she works. I immediately felt cheated on and deceived, as I believe it's obvious that she had this relationship going on at the same time as with me. This was much
tougher than the actual breakup even though we weren't together for more than a few months. I know I should have cut her off earlier, but it's not easy when things are going on.
 
Finally, I decided to let her know I knew what she had been up to and sent her a text explaining that I had been honest with her, and my intention with her was real (with establishing a family etc.) and wished her good luck. I also added that I knew about her new situation, and that being dishonest is not best thing to do over time. She then replied immediately claiming she didn't understand what I was talking about, and that we just went on a few dates. Then she sent another aggressive message saying that I could talk to her boyfriend if I wanted to, but that it wasn't going to be pleasant. I never replied of course, and she blocked me.

Based on what I've read on this site I recognise some of this behaviour as BPD traits, but it would be interesting to hear some feedback from you guys. Also, I am still feeling a bit down after this experience, and I wondered if anyone could share some tips on moving on?

You picked a good place to seek counsel my friend. Welcome to the fam. 

So most importantly, is it possible BPD is involved...yes. However, just because it is a possibility does not make it so. Whenever there is trauma involved which based on what you shared I would say is a fairly reasonable determination. However, keep in mind it may not be BPD at all...there could cPTSD involved, it could all come down her attachment style, or perhaps other behavioral disorders.

In that scenario the best course of action is to not go down the rabbit hole of believing it is one thing and instead focusing on improving yourself and learning from what may have brought that person into your life.

You can change and improve you, but you cannot change and improve her.

To that end...keep this in mind...Want Better, Expect Better, Do Better!

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[dalrym]

Yesterday I had an interesting experience..

I was swiping on Tinder and a profile popped up with the same first name and age as her. No real photo - just a random background picture on the profile. Her first name is very unusual in our area (and country) so it's highly unlikely there's another person with the same name and age in that area. If there is, I am sure she would use a real picture of herself... People with anonymous pictures are mostly people who shouldn't be there in my experience.

Anyway, I liked the profile just for fun, and then went back to look at my previous likes (as you can with Tinder Gold) - but couldn't find that profile. I did, however, see the profile I liked before and after her..
So, I assume she noticed my like and blocked me or something like that.

You can never be 100% certain, but I am quite sure this is her based on the above. If I'm right, what kind of person is lurking around on Tinder while being pregnant? I must say people never stop to surprise..

 

[kells76]

I agree that it's not important what this behaviour might be labeled or categorised as. However, based on my limited knowledge I believe this reminds somewhat of BPD (or at least BPD personality traits). I am fully aware that I am not in any position to diagnose anyone, but I found this behaviour quite extreme and haven't really experienced something like this before. 

Sounds like we're on the same page. While as far as I know, my H's kids' mom has never been diagnosed with BPD, and her husband has never been diagnosed with NPD, those can be helpful frameworks for me to understand their behaviors and find more effective ways of either dealing with them or moving forward.

It may not be BPD or NPD going on with them -- but improving my communication approaches and decision-making in that light has been more effective than treating them like they don't have a PD. And that's what it comes down to here; no matter what is going on with the other person, we get to ask ourselves: what do we want, who do we want to be, how do we want to interact (or not). That's what we have control over.

You can never be 100% certain, but I am quite sure this is her based on the above. If I'm right, what kind of person is lurking around on Tinder while being pregnant? I must say people never stop to surprise..

I think it can be easy to forget that personality disorders (if that's what's in play) are serious and impairing mental illnesses. PD's aren't something that only affect one part of a person's life (like, "well, she'd get pretty emotional, but other than that, things were basically normal"). PD's affect perceptions, beliefs about the world, and even the sense of having a separate, consistent, and unique "self".

One thing I read on here a while back that has stuck with me is that sometimes people confuse BPD with DID (dissociative identity disorder, sometimes called MPD or multiple personality disorder). The pwBPD seems to be a chameleon, inconsistent, making vast changes in appearance, interests, etc. "It's like they have multiple personalities!" What the poster wrote was that he learned from a professional that even people with DID actually have a self... it's just that they have multiple defined selves. A pwBPD doesn't even have that. We aren't seeing "multiple selves", we're seeing someone without any psychological self at all.

Watching the choices a pwBPD makes is a stark look into not having a strong sense of self. Can she go on Tinder while pregnant? You bet, if it meets an emotional need. There isn't a sense of "I'm pregnant now, so even if in the past I wasn't and would date, now things are different and I plan to focus on the baby". Or, "even though I feel lonely, I know I've made it through hard times before, so I can make it through again".

I just think there isn't even that sense of "in the past, I was able to tolerate distress, so it's still me and I still can". I think it's more a moment-by-moment existence. What you're seeing may be that desperate grasping for anything to help her manage her harmfully intense and wildly varying emotions that aren't anchored with a sense of "it's still me". Sad stuff.

...

What's your plan for moving forward? "Liking" on tinder, even for fun, seems like it's keeping a connection going. Are you leaning that direction, or thinking something else?

[ThanksForPlaying]

What's your plan for moving forward? "Liking" on tinder, even for fun, seems like it's keeping a connection going. Are you leaning that direction, or thinking something else?

I'm also going through this now.  She has a public social media profile that I can check any time.  Although I haven't.  Of course in my mind, she's going out every night with new guys and having a ton of fun.  There's no way the reality is as wild and promiscuous as I dream it up to be in my mind.  So while I'm avoiding her social media, I'm also wrestling with my own imagination.  And even if she IS having the time of her life with a new man, I want to get past the point where that affects me.  After all, I'm the one who broke it off.  I just keep thinking "maybe she's totally fine now and I can get back together with a fixed version of her."  Not likely.

[dalrym]

What's your plan for moving forward? "Liking" on tinder, even for fun, seems like it's keeping a connection going. Are you leaning that direction, or thinking something else?

n

My plan moving forward is meeting new people and being very cautious regarding red flags. That her profile (if it is her) showed up was not something I could control. This sounds maybe immature, but I would like to see how her new relationship is evolving. As I am not sure she actually has a personality disorder, I find the thought of her having a long-standing relationship hard to bear. I know it's not good for me, but seeing her new relationship fall apart would at least give me some peace of mind and stop blaming myself for what happened. 

[kells76]

This sounds maybe immature, but I would like to see how her new relationship is evolving. As I am not sure she actually has a personality disorder, I find the thought of her having a long-standing relationship hard to bear. I know it's not good for me, but seeing her new relationship fall apart would at least give me some peace of mind and stop blaming myself for what happened. 

It's good you can talk about that feeling openly. A lot of us have shared it, myself included, so you're not alone.

It gives her control of how you're feeling about yourself -- your self worth.

How would you feel about yourself if her next relationship looked successful and healthy? How might you sit with and tolerate those uncomfortable feelings?

How could you take back responsibility for those feelings?

I think you're really drilling down into some important work.

[ThanksForPlaying]

This is insightful.  I also find myself second-guessing my decision to end the relationship.  Intuitively I know the reasons why it was not a good relationship for me.  I know the boundaries that were crossed.  I know how I was treated. But what if she's now "fixed"?  What if she's now a more perfect version of the broken person I knew?  That would be fantastic.  Also highly unlikely.

It's very difficult to "prove a negative".  For example, start with the statement "she does hurtful things."  You know she did hurtful things to you.  And you're wanting her next relationship to crash and burn, so you'll have more evidence to support this idea.  That's understandable.  And then maybe you'll watch to see if the NEXT relationship fails.  At some point, you don't really need to spend more time collecting evidence.

But then take the statement "she no longer does hurtful things."  This is what we REALLY are hoping for.  That she's now "ready" for a healthy relationship.  But what evidence am I looking for?  That her social media looks normal?  That her current relationship seems stable?  It's extremely difficult to know how accurate this is.  And then how long do I have to wait?  Months?  Years?  Just to confirm that she doesn't hurt people anymore?  Let's say it's been 2 years and I haven't seen any evidence that she's hurt people.  Hooray - she's not showing any BPD behaviors, right?  Now I need to wait for her to end her happy relationship?  Now I'm the one being manipulative.

As Kells suggests, we may need to drill down to find why we want THIS specific relationship to work so badly that we're willing to spend months or years working on it and waiting for it.

It can be so much more freeing to grieve and move on.  Easier said than done.

[dalrym]

These are all very interesting perspectives.

I don't necessarily see this one way or the other. My primary goal is to move on, have a healthy relationship and start a family. But at the same time it would good to see what happens on her side to be able to confirm my theories. Yes, she did hurtful things to me - but did I trigger this? Could I have handled her differently and made it work? It's hard to leave that thought. I also cannot really comprehend that she wanted to start a family with me, then pulled away almost immediately and got pregnant with another guy a few months later. I cannot stop thinking that she selected a "better option", but then again I know her impulsitvity. So, I assume her personality doesen't change whoever she meets. Also, she portrayed herself as the victim in all her previous relationships. Not initially, but that eventually became the story. Of course, it's hard to understand from the outside how things are actually are going in her life, but there are always signs. If it was her Tinder profile I saw I assume that things really didn't change. I could also add that she once (when slightly drunk) started a weird conversation about her not sure if she would be able to stick to just one man in her life. She mentioned it the next day, but tried to laugh it off and saying she was just kidding...

I guess the lack of an honest ending and closure is at the center of this for my part. I don't like her behaviour controlling how I feel, and I know that I should just leave it. This is not so easy, and I guess it's my ego that also needs to be managed in all this. I don't really hold any grudges towards her, and if her behaviour changed to the better it would probably benefit everyone around her and be net positive for all. Who wouldn't want that?

[ThanksForPlaying]

Ask yourself what "closure" looks like for you.  What are you wanting to see or hear?

For example, if you follow her on social media and she has 3 failed relationships over the next year ... is that enough closure for you to accept that it's a pattern?  Was it worth waiting and watching for a year?  (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't)

Alternatively, if she stays in a stable relationship for a year ... is that closure?  Do you want to see 2 years of improved behavior?  3 years?  How many years until you have "closure" and can say she's moved on (and may not even display the same BPD traits anymore)?  Was it worth waiting and watching for 3 years?

My guess is that #1 above is the more likely outcome.  You just need to set some limits for yourself about how much time you want to spend waiting for "closure".

[seekingtheway]

Something my psychologist has been talking to me about, is the fact that even if my ex did come back around for another attempt (which is possible because he's come back so many times in the past), then it's unlikely to ever work because of the deep tracks laid down of distrust and disrespect that have been laid down, and he knows he's tried with me multiple times and it just hasn't worked. Looking at the simple evidence, no... it did not work. At all.

What could potentially work is him being ready to face his issues, doing the hard work in therapy, and then finding someone brand new to then take that journey with. Someone he doesn't hold shame about the way he's treated... a brand new slate to work with.

But the fact is, the hard work really is that... hard work, and he's not going to do that outside of a relationship - he can't be alone. So it appears the more likely outcome is to jump back into another relationship, repeat the patterns - because that's what patterns do, they repeat - and he'll hurt the new person (because he really can't help it), create more shame...  and will then again be faced with the decision of whether he tries to tackle his issues while staying in the relationship, or finds someone new to wipe the slate clean with again. Either way, his issues will still exist. It will take years, potentially his whole life to deal with them. And I learned through experience that his issues are significant, deeply ingrained, utterly exhausting for me to deal with, and not compatible with having any type of healthy, reciprocal relationship, regardless of whether he figured out how to not run away or not. Staying is one thing - being healthy is another thing entirely.

After my ex monkey branched to another woman, but then came back to me afterwards, I got to hear about the other side of what happened in a relationship that he plastered all over social media and from the outside looking in, you'd think he'd met the love of his life, and they were insanely happy and would have stayed together forever... of course the story to me is that she was a narcissist, that she coerced him into the relationship, abused him, it was trauamtic, chaotic, they broke up three times in seven months... the same patterns were playing out, but you just couldn't see that from social media.

It hurts a lot, but I would like to get to the point where I am genuinely happy for my ex if he finds someone he can stay with and work through his issues. Because I can tell that he lives with a lot of pain due to the way he shows up in relationships. He's hurt me immesaurably over the years, but he's hurt himself too and deep down I don't want that for him.

[dalrym]

Ask yourself what "closure" looks like for you.  What are you wanting to see or hear?

For example, if you follow her on social media and she has 3 failed relationships over the next year ... is that enough closure for you to accept that it's a pattern?  Was it worth waiting and watching for a year?  (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't)

Alternatively, if she stays in a stable relationship for a year ... is that closure?  Do you want to see 2 years of improved behavior?  3 years?  How many years until you have "closure" and can say she's moved on (and may not even display the same BPD traits anymore)?  Was it worth waiting and watching for 3 years?

My guess is that #1 above is the more likely outcome.  You just need to set some limits for yourself about how much time you want to spend waiting for "closure".

I get your point, but it's not like I will sit around and wait for 1 og 2 years. Since she's pregnant I assume she will stay for a while anyway. I am pretty confident that seeing her current relationship fail would give me enough peace of mind, but who knows when and if that will happen. I'm not even sure if I ever get any more closure than I already got, so I guess i need to accept the fact and move on. That's what I am struggling with.