Indirect threat

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

So, I have been trying to get out of this extremely destructive relationship for the last 3 months.  We've been together for 2 tumultuous years.  He says the meanest things he can possibly think of repeatedly and tells me it's my fault for making him mad. Anyway,  for the last 3 weeks I've held my ground that it's over.  I didn't realize that he could be even uglier,  but I understand that driving that nail into the abandonment sensitivity has unleashed even more intense anger and now indirect threats. I told him that I will no longer allow him to take my peace and that all of the things he is saying is just a reflection on his character and his cruelty and pettiness.  I said that I would not be answering phone calls or text messages.  He responded with that my piece is his to take and he will take it when and how he wants. I haven't completely blocked him yet because he still has a lot of things in my house and I'm concerned that if I don't take care of that issue first, he will do something to me or my house. My counselor had the idea of renting a storage unit and moving all of his stuff to the storage unit and then giving him the key and telling him that he has a month to get his stuff out or continue paying for it, which is what I'm going to do this weekend. I know that he is going to be irate when I tell him that his stuff has been moved but I don't feel like I have a choice anymore. I have given him three months to get it on his own which he hasn't,  and now he's threatening me. This is the only way that I can get him out of my life and start moving forward without the threat of him hanging over my head to come to my house. My husband killed himself 2 years ago and he has thrown it in my face numerous times that it was my fault and I make him want to kill himself.And then in the most recent text he's told me that he wishes that my husband would have killed me first and then killed himself. A couple of friends have told me that I should file a police report.  I'm not sure if what he has said qualifies as an actual threat since it's non specific  or if it would serve any purpose.  For the time being,  I will stay at my daughter's house,  just to avoid any safety concerns.  I just want this to be over.  I feel like getting out of this is like trying to get out of a tar pit and it just keeps sticking to me.

[CrazytownSA]

So, I have been trying to get out of this extremely destructive relationship for the last 3 months.  We've been together for 2 tumultuous years.  He says the meanest things he can possibly think of repeatedly and tells me it's my fault for making him mad. Anyway,  for the last 3 weeks I've held my ground that it's over.  I didn't realize that he could be even uglier,  but I understand that driving that nail into the abandonment sensitivity has unleashed even more intense anger and now indirect threats. I told him that I will no longer allow him to take my peace and that all of the things he is saying is just a reflection on his character and his cruelty and pettiness.  I said that I would not be answering phone calls or text messages.  He responded with that my piece is his to take and he will take it when and how he wants. I haven't completely blocked him yet because he still has a lot of things in my house and I'm concerned that if I don't take care of that issue first, he will do something to me or my house. My counselor had the idea of renting a storage unit and moving all of his stuff to the storage unit and then giving him the key and telling him that he has a month to get his stuff out or continue paying for it, which is what I'm going to do this weekend. I know that he is going to be irate when I tell him that his stuff has been moved but I don't feel like I have a choice anymore. I have given him three months to get it on his own which he hasn't,  and now he's threatening me. This is the only way that I can get him out of my life and start moving forward without the threat of him hanging over my head to come to my house. My husband killed himself 2 years ago and he has thrown it in my face numerous times that it was my fault and I make him want to kill himself.And then in the most recent text he's told me that he wishes that my husband would have killed me first and then killed himself. A couple of friends have told me that I should file a police report.  I'm not sure if what he has said qualifies as an actual threat since it's non specific  or if it would serve any purpose.  For the time being,  I will stay at my daughter's house,  just to avoid any safety concerns.  I just want this to be over.  I feel like getting out of this is like trying to get out of a tar pit and it just keeps sticking to me.

[kells76]

Hi CrazytownSA;

Yes, coping with an escalating pwBPD isn't for the faint of heart, and, like you said, changing the relationship structure can unleash intense rage.

The storage unit idea is smart. What's the plan for getting the key to him -- sending it by registered mail, maybe? Dropping it off at his workplace when he's not there? Something makes me think that you, alone, dropping the key off in person with him, alone, might not be the safest plan.

This is concerning:

My husband killed himself 2 years ago and he has thrown it in my face numerous times that it was my fault and I make him want to kill himself.And then in the most recent text he's told me that he wishes that my husband would have killed me first and then killed himself. A couple of friends have told me that I should file a police report. I'm not sure if what he has said qualifies as an actual threat since it's non specific  or if it would serve any purpose.

One idea is to call your local non-emergency police line, or go down to the station in person, and say "I'm not actually sure if this is a threat or not, can I show you what he wrote and describe the situation, and can you tell me if it is?" They will have the experience to know if it is an actual threat.

Another idea is to call your local DV hotline and do the same thing -- describe the situation, read the text, and ask for their feedback. The worker at the DV hotline I called recently said that they are not mandatory reporters (not that that would necessarily apply to your situation, as children aren't involved), so you can tell them anything and it stays anonymous and they don't make reports. I'm not sure if all hotlines are the same -- but no matter what, getting experienced, neutral, third party feedback on your situation can only help.

Either of those approaches sound do-able?

[CrazytownSA]

I will call the non-emergency hotline and explain the situation.And see what they say. I plan to drop the key off at his house after he has left for work and is gone.

[tina7868]

I will call the non-emergency hotline and explain the situation.And see what they say. I plan to drop the key off at his house after he has left for work and is gone.

CrazytownSA, that sounds like a good plan. Let us know how it goes and how you feel, reach out for support any time.

[Kashi]

I know the threats and they escalate.  My ex was never violent, but she likes to position herself to make herself the victim.

I told her that her veiled accusations I take as a threat and that is why I cannot be in contact.

I also know about being stuck with a life that is now over and they want to trap you in it.  

They don't want you, but they need someone who will take away the fears.  

Sometimes one-person isn't enough.  

The way to do is, to not start to break down what happened and seek closure.  I believe that was something I did wrong on reflection.  Because you can't get that kind of closure from someone with a mental illness.  You can't deal with their logic because that just causes more confusion for you.  

I just kept moving forward with closing finances, how that works legally, step by step and didn't stop.  I had to do everything, and she OMG put so many hurdles in the way.  It took me a year to get out of our house.  She had left me in.  Documents that had to be signed I had to ask twenty times. Get the comments.  I treat her like a child, I don't let her have space to do things she needs to.  She trusted me and I did the wrong thing.  Two months to sign a form.  It was a long long process.

When he finds out you moved his stuff he might unleash on you.  He will bring in trust issues and blame.

Have your message ready.  

Without telling what to say.   I would say....  I put your belongings into storage, so they are safe.  I have paid for the storage for a month so that gives you time to decide what you want to do with them.  Tell him how he is able to collect them.

I wouldn't put an ultimatum in there like I won't pay after a month or any comments like I wanted your stuff out of my house.  Because he will latch on to that and only that.   Then he will refuse to collect them to create a drama.

Keep records.  Get your text messages into a cloud storage.  Don't leave them on your phone.  You have that phone taken there goes your evidence.  Do not get angry, he wants you to get angry because that makes him feel better plus then he has something against you.  Make sure someone you trust knows exactly what is happening.

I find the messages do get into their heads after a while.    You just need to make them simple and not accusatory.

I told my ex that the most important thing is she is safe and I am.  That I want her to be safe, to do what she needs to keep herself safe.   We are not safe together and that is why I can't have contact with her.  I think that sinks in.  It's truthful and they have fears are about being safe, so they can relate to it.   That is isn't my job to create that safety for her, she has to do it.

I wouldn't tell you to go to the police or not.  I don't know.  

After this contact.  I would remove any way he can contact you.  If that means changing phone numbers, do it.  All your email addresses, all social media.  I would advise anyone he can call to get your new details that he might contact them.  They all need to have the same response for not giving out your details and prepared.  

I would actually tell him you will not be contacting him anymore and to please not contact you in anyway again.  Wrap it up in a nice bow.  Have a good life, you wish him well etc.  

Then you have a record.  Then if he does anything to break it, you have something tangible to take to the police.

[Augustine]

From the male perspective (ex Army, and have been though a few unpleasant experiences in my time) this isn’t anywhere near being a credible threat.

Men saying extremely unpleasant things to each other is something we just get used to, and the number of times it escalates to something physical is vanishingly small…almost zero.

This an emotionally immature  person, wounded, and verbally lashing out.

However, people will be more prone towards immaturity and being verbally hurtful when relationships end.

People prone to violence don’t need exceptional circumstances to be violent, and if it wasn’t present during the relationship, or in previous relationships, it’s not going to spontaneously appear on a whim in this instance.

I would suggest de escalation, and as little contact as is humanly possible to achieve your aim.

[Kashi]

It is a little different with BPD people though.

Because they are collecting information and using it against you.  They are spreading their truth and distortions to whomever stands still long enough to listen.

I do believe you need to be very careful.

They are mostly indirect threats but none the less they are threats. 

My ex started to suggest I was stalking her, which ended up being because she was guilty of cheating.

Then she would contact me and turn it around to, I was contacting her.

I got a phone call from her father, and he delivered a strange, veiled threat, that I would watched and have a visit from his brother.  So, I know she has said some outrageous things about me. 

They word it so it is vague and not direct.  That made me decide to break all contact.

Yes you need to de-escalate situations.

But you also need to protect yourself.  Understand it isn't going to get better. 

There is a message in what he is saying, and you should listen to it.  Get out as gently as you can. 

I downplayed everything I was doing, was doing in the future.   I made myself a person in her eyes that nobody would want.   Because I believed that if she saw I would have a better life than her, that might trigger her.  She believes I am her object, I will always be there, she said that she feels like she "owns" me. 

I devalued myself to her.  So, she wouldn't come after me.

The more boring I was, without prospects in her eyes the better that is for me. 

Because I am scared of what she could do.   I have seen how psychotic she can get. 

[CrazytownSA]

This is all extremely helpful advice and I am so thankful for it. Deescalating is soooo hard. How do you do that when they're literally telling you that you're a piece a PLEASE READ, a b****, a c***, arrogant, stupid, worthless. I totally get that they are really describing their own insecurities and projecting. I don't say insulting things back, but what are you supposed to say to that? The stance that I have been taking is that I will no longer allow him to take my peace. When he says insulting things, I have said they don't hurt me anymore and just reflect on his character.Most of the time I won't respond at all, and that really makes him mad. Damned if I do and damned if I don't. He last text were that he wanted nothing to do with me. I always think Good!, but that usually only lasts a couple of days. Then he's telling me he loves me and needs me in his life, and I have to say no, and it starts all over again. I have apologized for hurting him until I'm blue in the face in an attempt to deescalate, but we have all been there. There's no pleasing or placating them. He just keeps on and on ....I do believe he is capable of physical violence. He hasn't put his hands on me, but he's come really close a few times, and on multiple occasions has blocked the door so that I couldn't leave, and basically held me prisoner until he had said every hateful thing he wanted to. After I txt him the info regarding the storage, I will stay with my daughter for at least a week, maybe 2. The advice for the phrasing about putting his stuff in a safe place a great. I will use that. I also picked a place that is closer to his house, a nice storage, and in a nice area. I will try telling him he needs to be able to find peace in his life, and I bring him strife, and I want good things for him. All of that true. Keep the advice coming. I can definitely use it!

[kells76]

How does he communicate these things to you:

How do you do that when they're literally telling you that you're a piece a PLEASE READ, a b****, a c***, arrogant, stupid, worthless. I totally get that they are really describing their own insecurities and projecting. I don't say insulting things back, but what are you supposed to say to that?

text? phone call? email? in person? other?

The stance that I have been taking is that I will no longer allow him to take my peace. When he says insulting things, I have said they don't hurt me anymore and just reflect on his character.Most of the time I won't respond at all, and that really makes him mad. Damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Are you telling yourself that those things don't hurt you and just reflect on his character? Or are you telling him?

How do you know that when you don't respond, he gets mad?

...

It doesn't sound to me like he's in a place where he can really hear or process anything you communicate, especially about emotional topics.

Given that you're ready to be done with the relationship, I guess I don't see a downside to not engaging with anything he says?

I.e., maybe it isn't your job to deescalate conversations any more... maybe you get to not even engage at all?

Even on the "Bettering a relationship" board, we don't recommend or advise members to keep engaging when their partner uses abusive language. That isn't a time for validation -- it's a time for protecting yourself through boundaries.

Much more so here, when you are unwinding the relationship. It was never your job (or within your power) to make him feel better or make him understand... so much less so now.

...

I am assuming the two of you are no longer in physical contact or proximity any more?

[Kashi]

Get your messages set in your mind.

I know it's hard when they have you in anxiety mode and saying outrageous things.

Think of it as a project. 

Your focus is the short and sweet messages.     

It's not safe being together in emotional turmoil and you want both of you to be happy and safe. 

You are both hurt and need to heal

You cannot be together because healing won't happen

You care and want him to be happy and you want to be happy as well

My message was the above and

I added, I respected the years she gave me, the sense of family she gave me.  That it wasn't all bad. 

We never be together again.   

Without screaming anxiety running through your mind and mind-boggling logic from them I do appreciate part of what she gave me.   I didn't lie.

[Kashi]

Just one-point don't spin the messages about him

Make them about both of you. 

That is my advice.

Don't say I am no good for you.   Say we are no good together. 

We are not safe together

I don't want to put words in your mouth.  Just  my observations and what I tried.

So, there is no blame in it on either side, there are no accusations.

Fair statements

Make them statements because long conversations do not work.  It is too hard for them when they are escalated

Use a good tone.  Even tone.

You are going have to keep on that track when he is going sideways and upside down

[Kashi]

I agree as well with kelles

I went non-contact but I had to soften it because I was scared.

I still am.

I don't think flat out non contact is a good thing.  I think you have to at least try to get a message across.

Personally, that is what I believe.

You want his stuff out of your house, how did that work?

Next you want him out of your life.

I don't think what I said is validating bad behavior.   I think it's ignoring it.

I think it's the introduction to understanding if you need to take it further or be really direct. 

If logic worked then we would all be "sweet" and "happy"

[CrazytownSA]

Responses to questions:

How does he communicate these things to you:

Quote from: CrazytownSA on May 18, 2024, 09:27:36 PM
How do you do that when they're literally telling you that you're a piece a PLEASE READ, a b****, a c***, arrogant, stupid, worthless. I totally get that they are really describing their own insecurities and projecting. I don't say insulting things back, but what are you supposed to say to that?

text? phone call? email? in person? other?
He texts them to me because when he starts saying them on the phone, I tell him that I won't tolerate being talked to that way and hang up when he won't stop.

The stance that I have been taking is that I will no longer allow him to take my peace. When he says insulting things, I have said they don't hurt me anymore and just reflect on his character.Most of the time I won't respond at all, and that really makes him mad. Damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Are you telling yourself that those things don't hurt you and just reflect on his character? Or are you telling him?
I text that back to him when he is texting horrible things to me.

How do you know that when you don't respond, he gets mad?
 I know that because he will call 5-20 times and then will text pages and pages of irate texts when I won't answer the phone.

So on May 19th I, and friends of mine, moved his stuff to storage. On Wednesday(22nd), I dropped off the key to the storage unit at his house when I knew that he would be gone to work. I sent him a text message with the info, and took the advice of Kashi and phrased my text that it was really difficult for me(truth), and framed in a way that I was trying to help both of us, that it would give him access to his things without having to coordinate with me whenever he wanted, and he could get things as he was ready etc etc. That actually worked. His response was "Thanks, I guess. I feel so disposed of".  I told him he will always hold a piece of my heart, that we just aren't healthy together and bring out the worst in each other. I apologized for causing him pain and told him I will always love and care and about him. I told him he's never disposed of, that just can't be together.
Thursday he text me that he was sorry and wished he could have dealt with things differently, that he cries every day, misses me, and that even with as hard as everything was, that it was the closest to happiness that he had ever been in his entire miserable life. This absolutely breaks my heart. It is so so hard. I know that bpd people are broken hurting souls, and I want so badly to be able to help him and heal the hurt, but I acknowledge that there is nothing that I can do that will accomplish that. We will always end up here, except with just more of me chipped away at. I pray for him every day. That is the only thing I know to do. I miss the sweet, loving, and affectionate side, but I just can't endure the angry, cruel, and heartless side anymore.  I pray for God to help me let go and move on. I am really struggling.