Adult Predatory Grooming

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I firmly believe that PWBPD are adult predatory groomers.

I believe she picked me because I have been susceptible to it previously.   I believe she turned the tables and made me feel I doing something wrong,  couldn't be trusted,  that I just wanted sex, that I didn't love her and on it goes.

I saw it in the next monkey branch, she picked someone she had power over,  who was plain and not very worldly. 

Grooming is a tool that predators use to gain the trust of a target, and ultimately manipulate that trust to gain sexual, monetary, or other advantages. You may have heard the term as it applies to children, but adults can also groom other adults. In fact, some adults may use other adults, and particularly women, to help them in their grooming.

As with other forms of manipulation, grooming is not a simple cut-and-dry technique. It plays on an individual’s insecurities and, even in a strong-minded person, can wreak havoc psychologically.

Recognizing grooming for what it is can help you avoid being groomed yourself or help you support a friend survive a predator.


The Stages of Grooming
Master manipulators use grooming to get what they want out of someone, whether it’s sex, morally questionable behavior, money, or something else. (Does Dirty John ring a bell?)

Whether the target is an adult or child, the stages of grooming by the predator toward their target are typically the same:

Friendship-forming: The predator will work to determine a target’s candidacy by asking questions about the target’s life and gauging their vulnerability, and also getting contact information such as social media handles or phone numbers.
Relationship-forming: The predator works to gain the target’s trust, often through secret-sharing or by fulfilling a need. For instance, they may run errands for the victim or pay for bills. The predator may also share a secret that “only the target can know”, then ask for a similar secret to level the playing field.

Threat-gauging: The predator will engage in a risk assessment to determine how accessible the victim truly is. This is more common among predators who are grooming children but can also happen with adults who will check a target’s relationship strength with friends, family, and roommates.

Isolation: The predator will begin distancing the target from friends or family. This can be done in multiple ways, including surprisingly positive methods such as compliments and favors. The predator may tell the intended victim that they feel an especially strong connection to them, or that they understand each other in a special way that no one else can get. Control is the predator’s intent. By appearing calm and concerning, the predator is seeking to increase their influence over the victim to advance their agenda.

Abuse: In this phase, the predator will start to use the target to meet their needs. With children, this is generally sexual in nature, but predators will use victims for money, to accomplish morally questionable things for them, or even just to fill an emotional need.

Maintenance: Once the victim is doing what the predator wants, the predator will work to keep them under control through various means. These methods can include gas-lighting (telling the victim their feelings are crazy or unreasonable), destroying the victim’s self-esteem, or continuing the isolate the victim from their loved ones.


I KNOW I WAS GROOMED

That is what happened to me as a child and this person did it to me again, because they saw I could be.

How could you do that to someone who was abused as a child.  HOW COULD YOU!

Tell me that isn't a monster and there is no intent.  CRAP!  There is intent.

I see it in some of the writing here.  I see some men here saying they were sexually abused by the pwBPD.  That is a lot for an adult man to admit and many people would simply say how that could be.  Men are always supposed to like sex and it is supposed to be on their minds all the time.  Some men on this forum express how they were handled, and they feel abused.  Not many people would understand that.  Thanks for being so brave and speaking out. 

I knew I recognized the trauma I am feeling.   Now I know, I know how to solve it and I know what I need to do so I am not groomed again.

[Kashi]

I firmly believe that PWBPD are adult predatory groomers.

I believe she picked me because I have been susceptible to it previously.   I believe she turned the tables and made me feel I doing something wrong,  couldn't be trusted,  that I just wanted sex, that I didn't love her and on it goes.

I saw it in the next monkey branch, she picked someone she had power over,  who was plain and not very worldly. 

Grooming is a tool that predators use to gain the trust of a target, and ultimately manipulate that trust to gain sexual, monetary, or other advantages. You may have heard the term as it applies to children, but adults can also groom other adults. In fact, some adults may use other adults, and particularly women, to help them in their grooming.

As with other forms of manipulation, grooming is not a simple cut-and-dry technique. It plays on an individual’s insecurities and, even in a strong-minded person, can wreak havoc psychologically.

Recognizing grooming for what it is can help you avoid being groomed yourself or help you support a friend survive a predator.


The Stages of Grooming
Master manipulators use grooming to get what they want out of someone, whether it’s sex, morally questionable behavior, money, or something else. (Does Dirty John ring a bell?)

Whether the target is an adult or child, the stages of grooming by the predator toward their target are typically the same:

Friendship-forming: The predator will work to determine a target’s candidacy by asking questions about the target’s life and gauging their vulnerability, and also getting contact information such as social media handles or phone numbers.
Relationship-forming: The predator works to gain the target’s trust, often through secret-sharing or by fulfilling a need. For instance, they may run errands for the victim or pay for bills. The predator may also share a secret that “only the target can know”, then ask for a similar secret to level the playing field.

Threat-gauging: The predator will engage in a risk assessment to determine how accessible the victim truly is. This is more common among predators who are grooming children but can also happen with adults who will check a target’s relationship strength with friends, family, and roommates.

Isolation: The predator will begin distancing the target from friends or family. This can be done in multiple ways, including surprisingly positive methods such as compliments and favors. The predator may tell the intended victim that they feel an especially strong connection to them, or that they understand each other in a special way that no one else can get. Control is the predator’s intent. By appearing calm and concerning, the predator is seeking to increase their influence over the victim to advance their agenda.

Abuse: In this phase, the predator will start to use the target to meet their needs. With children, this is generally sexual in nature, but predators will use victims for money, to accomplish morally questionable things for them, or even just to fill an emotional need.

Maintenance: Once the victim is doing what the predator wants, the predator will work to keep them under control through various means. These methods can include gas-lighting (telling the victim their feelings are crazy or unreasonable), destroying the victim’s self-esteem, or continuing the isolate the victim from their loved ones.


I KNOW I WAS GROOMED

That is what happened to me as a child and this person did it to me again, because they saw I could be.

How could you do that to someone who was abused as a child.  HOW COULD YOU!

Tell me that isn't a monster and there is no intent.  CRAP!  There is intent.

I see it in some of the writing here.  I see some men here saying they were sexually abused by the pwBPD.  That is a lot for an adult man to admit and many people would simply say how that could be.  Men are always supposed to like sex and it is supposed to be on their minds all the time.  Some men on this forum express how they were handled, and they feel abused.  Not many people would understand that.  Thanks for being so brave and speaking out. 

I knew I recognized the trauma I am feeling.   Now I know, I know how to solve it and I know what I need to do so I am not groomed again.

[Notwendy]

The Stages of Grooming


Friendship-forming: The predator will work to determine a target’s candidacy by asking questions about the target’s life and gauging their vulnerability, and also getting contact information such as social media handles or phone numbers.
Relationship-forming: The predator works to gain the target’s trust, often through secret-sharing or by fulfilling a need. For instance, they may run errands for the victim or pay for bills. The predator may also share a secret that “only the target can know”, then ask for a similar secret to level the playing field.

I read this and felt a chill. This is what my BPD mother does. She doesn't seek this for sexual purposes- which is why I didn't recognize it as grooming. Having people "do things for her" and being able to control them meets an emotional need for her.

She will send people on errands for her to do or get something she doesn't need. It's the act of "doing for her" that she wants. She's elderly and has people assist her as caregivers, but she sends them to the store to get her things. This didn't make sense. Why would you pay someone to come take care of you and then send them out to get a $10 box of bandaids at the pharmacy?

She will call me to ask me to make a phone call for her- and she is able to call me so why can't she call herself?

She has also tried this with my kids and other family members and tried to share "secrets" with them asking them to not tell me about it ( they tell me). I had boundaries with my kids so that she couldn't do this with them.

My kids are grown now. We don't live near her. We used to call her on the phone when they visit but they don't want to do that now because it makes them feel uncomfortable. She will ask them personal questions - it's the "friendship forming" behavior. I tried to make the calls on speaker phone as a protective measure and she got angry, saying she wants to talk to them one on one. So now, we don't do this at all.

I wasn't familiar with the term "grooming" until recently and I assumed it was for sexual exploitation so didn't read up on it. This isn't what my BPD mother is seeking. For her, I think it meets an emotional need somehow. She didn't need to do this in a romantic sense as my father took on the role of emotional caretaker for her.

I don't know how common it is with BPD but I did sense something was going on during her interactions with my children and felt I needed to intervene.

[jaded7]

I firmly believe that PWBPD are adult predatory groomers.

I believe she picked me because I have been susceptible to it previously.   I believe she turned the tables and made me feel I doing something wrong,  couldn't be trusted,  that I just wanted sex, that I didn't love her and on it goes.

I saw it in the next monkey branch, she picked someone she had power over,  who was plain and not very worldly. 

Grooming is a tool that predators use to gain the trust of a target, and ultimately manipulate that trust to gain sexual, monetary, or other advantages. You may have heard the term as it applies to children, but adults can also groom other adults. In fact, some adults may use other adults, and particularly women, to help them in their grooming.

As with other forms of manipulation, grooming is not a simple cut-and-dry technique. It plays on an individual’s insecurities and, even in a strong-minded person, can wreak havoc psychologically.

Recognizing grooming for what it is can help you avoid being groomed yourself or help you support a friend survive a predator.


The Stages of Grooming
Master manipulators use grooming to get what they want out of someone, whether it’s sex, morally questionable behavior, money, or something else. (Does Dirty John ring a bell?)

Whether the target is an adult or child, the stages of grooming by the predator toward their target are typically the same:

Friendship-forming: The predator will work to determine a target’s candidacy by asking questions about the target’s life and gauging their vulnerability, and also getting contact information such as social media handles or phone numbers.
Relationship-forming: The predator works to gain the target’s trust, often through secret-sharing or by fulfilling a need. For instance, they may run errands for the victim or pay for bills. The predator may also share a secret that “only the target can know”, then ask for a similar secret to level the playing field.

Threat-gauging: The predator will engage in a risk assessment to determine how accessible the victim truly is. This is more common among predators who are grooming children but can also happen with adults who will check a target’s relationship strength with friends, family, and roommates.

Isolation: The predator will begin distancing the target from friends or family. This can be done in multiple ways, including surprisingly positive methods such as compliments and favors. The predator may tell the intended victim that they feel an especially strong connection to them, or that they understand each other in a special way that no one else can get. Control is the predator’s intent. By appearing calm and concerning, the predator is seeking to increase their influence over the victim to advance their agenda.

Abuse: In this phase, the predator will start to use the target to meet their needs. With children, this is generally sexual in nature, but predators will use victims for money, to accomplish morally questionable things for them, or even just to fill an emotional need.

Maintenance: Once the victim is doing what the predator wants, the predator will work to keep them under control through various means. These methods can include gas-lighting (telling the victim their feelings are crazy or unreasonable), destroying the victim’s self-esteem, or continuing the isolate the victim from their loved ones.


I KNOW I WAS GROOMED

That is what happened to me as a child and this person did it to me again, because they saw I could be.

How could you do that to someone who was abused as a child.  HOW COULD YOU!

Tell me that isn't a monster and there is no intent.  CRAP!  There is intent.

I see it in some of the writing here.  I see some men here saying they were sexually abused by the pwBPD.  That is a lot for an adult man to admit and many people would simply say how that could be.  Men are always supposed to like sex and it is supposed to be on their minds all the time.  Some men on this forum express how they were handled, and they feel abused.  Not many people would understand that.  Thanks for being so brave and speaking out. 

I knew I recognized the trauma I am feeling.   Now I know, I know how to solve it and I know what I need to do so I am not groomed again.

This is a deep realization and discussion here. I resonate with your insights very much.

I think grooming is a good word for how I got into the relationship.

 "by fulfilling a need. For instance, they may run errands for the victim or pay for bills."

My ex did things for me without asking in the beginning. I was surprised at them, and they felt really nice. Bringing me food on the day I was giving a talk, bringing me soap dispensers for my house super early on, sending me links to music sites I would enjoy. All of these stopped after a few weeks.

"The predator works to gain the target’s trust, often through secret-sharing"

She shared a 'secret' early on about how her husband was an abusive NPD and she had cPTSD from him. I felt bad for her, and became very protective of her.

"By appearing calm and concerning, the predator is seeking to increase their influence over the victim to advance their agenda."

She showed a great deal of 'concern' for me, much too early. It felt like it was too early for her to be that concerned about me- these things were criticisms in disguise, or outright gaslighting. She told me early on she was "worried about my memory". It felt both nice and a little weird, and my memory is not bad anyway and I could not understand why she said this. She then put me on the spot and said "ok...if your memory isn't bad, tell me when my birthday is". We'd been dating only a couple weeks and she'd mentioned her birthday in passing only once....but I remembered it. But I recall thinking what kind of person puts their new boyfriend on the spot like this?

She also at this time began with the put downs of my friends, and in fact refused to come to a party I wanted to have to introduce her to friends, clients, employees. "Why would I want to be around those people?" I was so baffled.

"Abuse: In this phase, the predator will start to use the target to meet their needs."

Then came the short temper, the snapping, the repeated use of the phrase "I need.....", "I need you to........". I was taken aback by the use of the phrase. She would criticize the food I ate, then use the phrase "I need you to eat better food...." She would criticize me and then blame me for her criticizing me and get mad at ME "I don't want to be the nagging girlfriend" as if my totally normal and not outside the bounds of the regular population food or whatever CAUSED her to criticize me.

This is when she started to mad at ME for not meeting her unexpressed needs. She even told me she didn't need or want anything when she had a cold, and I asked many times over a couple of days, perfectly eager and willing to bring her anything or do anything for her, but she repeatedly told me she was fine and just resting. Then ghosted me for 3 days and told me she was "angry at me for not taking care of her" and "she turned off her phone (blocked me) because she was so angry." When I pointed out that I had asked her many times what she needed and what I could do for her, she responded "my friends know what to do without asking".


"Maintenance: Once the victim is doing what the predator wants, the predator will work to keep them under control through various means. These methods can include gas-lighting (telling the victim their feelings are crazy or unreasonable), destroying the victim’s self-esteem"

Yes. Anytime I tried to express my feelings about her snapping at me or being rude and critical, she made sure to get angry and tell my my feelings were wrong. When she ignored texts and calls over a weekend and I texted her asking why she wasn't communicating, she miraculously had the time to call 7 seconds later and not even say hello when I answered, just launched into a really angry "you need mental health help!!" And "I gave you an itinerary for the weekend!!" Which she didn't do at all. Then the debate about what an itinerary means. She insisted she was too busy to text back over the weekend, which wasn't even close to to true.

"That is what happened to me as a child and this person did it to me again, because they saw I could be.

How could you do that to someone who was abused as a child.  HOW COULD YOU!

Tell me that isn't a monster and there is no intent.  CRAP!  There is intent.

I see it in some of the writing here.  I see some men here saying they were sexually abused by the pwBPD.  That is a lot for an adult man to admit and many people would simply say how that could be.  Men are always supposed to like sex and it is supposed to be on their minds all the time.  Some men on this forum express how they were handled, and they feel abused.  Not many people would understand that.  Thanks for being so brave and speaking out. "

You really have opened my eyes to the grooming process. I sensed it before, but never could put a word on it. She definitely played into this pattern. Too much too soon, too concerned about me early on, doing things for me that I didn't ask for.

As you mention, I had told her about my sexual abuse as a boy and how it put me in the psych hospital a few years before she and I met. Early on in the relationship I expressed to her that if she criticized me sexually or made it feel bad, it would be really damaging to me. I was afraid of that and told her that if she broke up with me over sex it would be really hurtful to me, and that I needed sex to loving and connecting. She then went on to treat me like an object, criticize me during sex, withhold sex, explode at when I put my arm around her when she came to bed "what do you want!!!! If you want sex touch me in a sexy way!!" while on the other hand she would point at me and tell me to take my clothes off and get in to bed when she wanted sex, turn me down repeatedly yet get REALLY angry at me if I said no to sex, snap at me angrily during sex.

I met with a sex therapist after it all ended, and described these and more behaviors around sex with her, and the therapist said yes this is sexually abusive behavior. Very unkind and mean, disrespectful especially given my history.

Helpful post Kashi, thank you. I'm glad you are having these insights and share them with us here. I share my thinking knowing that someone else might read it and have some insights as well.

[SinisterComplex]

I firmly believe that PWBPD are adult predatory groomers.

I believe she picked me because I have been susceptible to it previously.   I believe she turned the tables and made me feel I doing something wrong,  couldn't be trusted,  that I just wanted sex, that I didn't love her and on it goes.

I saw it in the next monkey branch, she picked someone she had power over,  who was plain and not very worldly. 

Grooming is a tool that predators use to gain the trust of a target, and ultimately manipulate that trust to gain sexual, monetary, or other advantages. You may have heard the term as it applies to children, but adults can also groom other adults. In fact, some adults may use other adults, and particularly women, to help them in their grooming.

As with other forms of manipulation, grooming is not a simple cut-and-dry technique. It plays on an individual’s insecurities and, even in a strong-minded person, can wreak havoc psychologically.

Recognizing grooming for what it is can help you avoid being groomed yourself or help you support a friend survive a predator.


The Stages of Grooming
Master manipulators use grooming to get what they want out of someone, whether it’s sex, morally questionable behavior, money, or something else. (Does Dirty John ring a bell?)

Whether the target is an adult or child, the stages of grooming by the predator toward their target are typically the same:

Friendship-forming: The predator will work to determine a target’s candidacy by asking questions about the target’s life and gauging their vulnerability, and also getting contact information such as social media handles or phone numbers.
Relationship-forming: The predator works to gain the target’s trust, often through secret-sharing or by fulfilling a need. For instance, they may run errands for the victim or pay for bills. The predator may also share a secret that “only the target can know”, then ask for a similar secret to level the playing field.

Threat-gauging: The predator will engage in a risk assessment to determine how accessible the victim truly is. This is more common among predators who are grooming children but can also happen with adults who will check a target’s relationship strength with friends, family, and roommates.

Isolation: The predator will begin distancing the target from friends or family. This can be done in multiple ways, including surprisingly positive methods such as compliments and favors. The predator may tell the intended victim that they feel an especially strong connection to them, or that they understand each other in a special way that no one else can get. Control is the predator’s intent. By appearing calm and concerning, the predator is seeking to increase their influence over the victim to advance their agenda.

Abuse: In this phase, the predator will start to use the target to meet their needs. With children, this is generally sexual in nature, but predators will use victims for money, to accomplish morally questionable things for them, or even just to fill an emotional need.

Maintenance: Once the victim is doing what the predator wants, the predator will work to keep them under control through various means. These methods can include gas-lighting (telling the victim their feelings are crazy or unreasonable), destroying the victim’s self-esteem, or continuing the isolate the victim from their loved ones.


I KNOW I WAS GROOMED

That is what happened to me as a child and this person did it to me again, because they saw I could be.

How could you do that to someone who was abused as a child.  HOW COULD YOU!

Tell me that isn't a monster and there is no intent.  CRAP!  There is intent.

I see it in some of the writing here.  I see some men here saying they were sexually abused by the pwBPD.  That is a lot for an adult man to admit and many people would simply say how that could be.  Men are always supposed to like sex and it is supposed to be on their minds all the time.  Some men on this forum express how they were handled, and they feel abused.  Not many people would understand that.  Thanks for being so brave and speaking out. 

I knew I recognized the trauma I am feeling.   Now I know, I know how to solve it and I know what I need to do so I am not groomed again.

This was a very insightful post and I hope plenty more read it. One thing I do want to mention though...yes of course there is intent. It is indeed manipulative. However, the reason why someone can and will do that to another person who was abused as a child is simply because they can and they know that they can get away with it. This is why I have preached here on the boards to always have strong boundaries and to never relent. Why? If your boundaries are strong the manipulative people and the opportunistic people tend to steer clear of you and seek out easier marks. Never hesitate to pull the plug on someone and tell them go kick rocks if they violate your boundaries. If someone is a habitual linestepper that means they do not respect you and that person is not worth your time and effort.

I know that sounds bad, but unfortunately it is really that simple regardless of how messed up it sounds.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[PeteWitsend]

Maintaining boundaries is perhaps the best advice here.

I've seen a few others note that point too about how manipulative people like to almost interrogate their potential partners. 

One challenge I've felt is how to recognize this sort of behavior when it happens. 

Too often I feel like I approach conversations with my proverbial "guard down."  And manipulative people sometimes know how to get you to relax and let your guard down, so that makes it extra challenging.

I hate to think one needs to be "always on" when dealing with other people, because that can be exhausting, but it's probably true in large part, especially when important discussions are happening.  You simply cannot afford to let things that trouble you go, ignore them or explain them away. 

[PeteWitsend]

I think of a relationship I had more recently that went on far longer than it should have.

When we started to talk about living together and how to split expenses, she got really aggressive in shutting down my 60/40 proposal - uncharacteristically so - and it completely caught me off guard.  I wasn't prepared for that.  And we tabled the conversation and moved on.

But that was a HUUUUUUGE red flag, and a point that revealed to me how she would operate when she wasn't getting her way, and her sense of entitlement.  I shouldn't have let her squirm away from that outburst and should've really tried to nail her down.

[PeteWitsend]

... hit send too soon.

Was going to add, but sometimes the potential for conflict or a desire to avoid unpleasant conversations is more powerful than we'd like to admit.  And so we go down a path we later regret, having not confronted a problem when we should have... maybe on some level knowing that it would lead to the end of a relationship we were hoping would last longer. 

But - at least for me - having hope in such a situation showed a lack of maturity.  Life's too short to spend it hoping the other person wants the same things you do.

[Kashi]

She worked herself into my house under an arrangement and then she stayed.  She made it seem so horrible I was asking her to find her own place and I gave in.

I told her she had to work.  I don't think she liked that, but she did it.  That was a boundary at least.

I wasn't paying for someone else.  No way.  She ended up earning more money than me then accused me of being with her for her money. 

She accused me of just wanting sex.  But I felt I had to perform, and she raised the bar all the time.  Nobody can keep that up. 

Saying no was not an option if you didn't want to deal with the fall out. 

I think she picked me because I was a push over in her eyes.  I noticed the next person she picked she selected someone she had "power" over. 

I had boundaries but she wore them down.  Now I feel I have none. 

I hear the conversations about male violence, and I know that is problem.  Men need to nurture better men.  Men should stand up and be vocal when they see violence against women.  Acknowledge the physical power men have.  But also, men should be heard when they are saying they have been sexually abused, or emotionally and sometimes physically.  Not to make excuses for male violence problems in the world so it's a competition, but simply factual.  This happens to boys and men, not just women and girls.

Men have a right to take their emotional power back, just like women.

I am gay by the way.  I just see it so clearly now.  It's not a gender battle.   It's a battle of abuse. 

One way I guess is if men start to think they don't play a role as such, in a relationship.   The role is equal ALWAYS.  You might be stronger, or better at different things but there are areas that gender does stop either sex from performing a role of equality.  If you don't feel that equality no matter what gender you are, there is something wrong. 

Love always tries to equalize

[Notwendy]

I agree- it's not exclusive to gender. I think romantic relationships are especially emotionally affected- due to the intimacy and vulnerability but they aren't the only ones. Family and friends are also close relationships.

One wonders why someone does this. I think some are probably sociopathic but I also think for many, it's the way they know to meet an emotional need or from trauma.

Female abuse of men happens but is reported less, I think due to society roles and men being larger in general. However, I don't think size has a lot to do with the emotional aspects of this. My BPD mother is a small woman, and she had control over my father and our family.

Some people may be vulnerable targets but some people are just skilled at manipulation. One of my friends- smart, independent, fell for a narcisistic and abusive man- I knew him too. casually, and I'd not have known this other side of him if she didn't tell me about it after that relationship ended. He was just that good at his social approaches.

Don't be too hard on yourself. You got into this relationship because you are a capable of genuinely caring about someone. It's your ex who isn't capable of a reciprocal and equal relationship.

[jaded7]

...yes of course there is intent. It is indeed manipulative. However, the reason why someone can and will do that to another person who was abused as a child is simply because they can and they know that they can get away with it. This is why I have preached here on the boards to always have strong boundaries and to never relent. Why? If your boundaries are strong the manipulative people and the opportunistic people tend to steer clear of you and seek out easier marks. Never hesitate to pull the plug on someone and tell them go kick rocks if they violate your boundaries. If someone is a habitual linestepper that means they do not respect you and that person is not worth your time and effort.

I know that sounds bad, but unfortunately it is really that simple regardless of how messed up it sounds.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

This is really helpful this morning SC, thank you.

I know in my case I did try to set boundaries around the yelling and the ghosting....to no avail! I could not bring something up like these without her getting very angry, which I found deeply confusing, as in CONFUSING.

I would think I had the right to express my needs and feelings, then be yelled at or told that I'm wrong in my feelings or what I think happened. Or I was not understanding enough, didn't understand her life, her ___________.

Just thinking now about the time after a huge 'fight' (as I mentioned before, the fights were her accusing me of something, or her doing something that was hurtful and I bring it up, and she would get seriously angry....and I would remain calm and and try to JADE) during which she yelled and belittled me....I was always shocked after these and much less connecting with her.

She called and said she wanted to come over to have sex- "didn't want to lose that part of our relationship" which by this time was very rare and even though she used to come over at least twice a week. I gently said "I don't think we're ready for that right now, but I'll call you when I'm done with work at my business".

This really upset her. "That sure makes a girl feel good". This, from a woman who turned me down endlessly for sex, who ignored requests to come over, who acted like we didn't discuss getting together to 'connect' when we had, etc.

So guilting me immediately. I stuck by my guns, and reassured her that I really valued our physical relationship, I just don't think we're ready as a couple for that right now, but I'd like to talk with her when I was done at work.

She didn't like that. Acted like I never said 'no', while at the same time acted like she did hear me say 'no' and she was mad, and literally said "I'll just come and find you after your work". Entitlement and ignoring my boundary. I told her in no uncertain terms "no....I'll call you when I"m done". She repeated she'll just come find me. I said 'no' 3 times, she got increasingly angry and said she needed to go, I said I'll call you later when I'm done.

She then showed up at my work. Since I was going to a brewpub with clients and employees after the event, like I always did after the event- she knew this well- I said you want to join us at the brewpub?? She said yes, then after we left and came to my place she attacked me:

"you took me to the brewpub and you know I hate brewpubs!" I DIDN'T take her to the brewpub, she showed up after I said no. And, she told me when she came into my business that night that "she was going to look for me at the brewpub, but saw the lights were on in my business". What the actual hell? She was going to the brewpub on her own, after I had so no repeatedly!

The rest of the night was a nightmare, she was angry and criticizing all kinds of things in my house and me, just surly. This went on for hours.

That, in my mind, is a very clear and serious boundary crossing. I said 'no' multiple times, she ignored it. Then after showing up gaslighting me into thinking it was my fault we went to the brewpub?? Then just angry as heck at my place.

Confusing, confusing.

[PeteWitsend]

...

One wonders why someone does this. I think some are probably sociopathic but I also think for many, it's the way they know to meet an emotional need or from trauma.
...

I know I've spent a lot of time wondering this as well.  And some of my close family members that found themselves on the receiving end of BPDxw's random rages and awful personality asked me this as well. 

I figured it was a "nurture" thing: I know in BPDxw's case (according to her at least), her parents largely abandoned her at times during the first few years of her life, and their parenting was spotty for a long time.  And their relationship was rife with alcoholism and mutual infidelity.  She told me one time (and I wondered why she admitted this), that her mom told her always to lie.  "Even if your husband catches you in bed with another man, deny it to his face."  But she was not the most reliable narrator, needless to say, and had no filter; she blamed her parents for a lot of things that conveniently excused her from taking responsibility for herself. 

But it seemed to me she never had a foundation of love and affection and trust, and learned that the only way to behave was to manipulate others to get what you want.  And KEEP them on pins and needles, because if they weren't afraid of what you would do, then THEY would do the same back. 

Others have told me here there's a strong genetic component to BPD.  How that plays out exactly is curious.  I assume there's not a single gene for things as complex as personality & behavior, but perhaps the lack of emotional balance is the key?  That leads them to anti-social behaviors because they otherwise can't survive?

I feel that this would be key to unlocking a lot about humanity, since - as I've read - at times we all display BPD-traits, especially as teenagers.  Why some people can't outgrow them and cling to them long term, and to the extent they do is very curious to me. 

[Kashi]

I think no doubt my ex's father has BPD.  Without a doubt.

Is that genes?   Or is it just that she was raised by people like that from the start.

The blueprint was set.

Strangely and this really bothers me.  I met this woman, just a conversation on holidays.  OH MY she tells me she has BPD.    Of all the things, that was the last thing I needed.

She was very honest about it.   Very.   There was no doubt there was sociopathy in her behavior. 

I backed away very gently.   I actually stopped my holiday short and left.  RAN!

 

RAN FAST!

I read what Narcs, Borderlines and people with other personality disorders say. 

I think it depends on what is happening in their lives at the time, they seem to slide up and down the scale of personality disorders.

I fear my ex has some sociopathic tendencies.  Also, narc tendencies but I didn't always see those. 

Overstepping your boundaries I think is about ownership.  They believe they own you.  They only need to put in as much as they need to because they own you.  You can't have an emotion of your own.  Because they own you.  You can't leave unless they say it's ok and even then, they believe you will love them forever and be there when they come back for their needs.

Because they own you

They don't see "you".  You aren't a living, breathing entity, who hurts, is unique, bleeds.

They enmeshed with you.   You are them.   

You can't go off and love someone else, or have a forfilling life.  They get jealous. 

I feel my ex wants me "gone" off this planet.  I feel like she thinks I walked away with part of her and she wants it back and to have that, I need to suffer.

That is how it feels.  Sounds dramatic but that is how it feels to me.

I'm "owned" 

I said I didn't want any contact ever and she ignored it and made a comment to keep the "door open".  I said what aren't you understand about what I am saying.  She said well you could have just agreed with me.  WHAT! No I am not agreeing.  Why would I do that.