Bps ex dil

[LHR]

I have so much difficulty with my BPD ex daughter-in-law.  The grief she has caused my son and as my granddaughter’s mom is something I must learn to deal with but I have so much trouble with it.  She has been so neglectful of my granddaughter except when it benefits her in some way yet she presents herself in public as the world’s best mom. I have so many memories of the damage she did to my son and our family and  continues to do to my granddaughter. I have no choice but to see her at school functions for my granddaughter etc. How do I treat her in front of my granddaughter when I can barely stand the sight of her? I want to support my granddaughter and my granddaughter just wants everyone to be happy and hates conflict. I need to get along but how do I present myself to someone who I just can’t tolerate? What is the best way to deal with a BPD to keep peace in a family?

[livednlearned]

It's a good question. I struggle with this when I'm dealing with disordered people in my life too. It's very challenging and takes work, and to be honest I find it hard to be consistent.

How does your former DIL respond to you when she sees you at these events? Is she openly aggressive?

What is the current way you engage (or don't) when you see her?

It's hard to forgive and forget when people have been abusive to you and your loved ones, especially if the behavior impacts a child.

If you feel comfortable sharing, what are some of the things that happened? I've had 4 disordered people in my life and each one is aggressive in different ways. That makes a difference in how I respond to them and what I'm willing to do or not do.

[LHR]

The things that have occurred are almost too numerous to go into. She and my son have been divorced now for about 10 years but the hurt and anger don’t go stop. . She was arrested when my granddaughter (will refer to her as gd) was about 2 for leaving her  in the car to go and shop. My granddaughter suffered near heat stroke, vomiting, shaking etc. when my dil  had her outside on a 90° plus day with no water etc. She has played mind games with my gd…”Gramma, mom and me have a secret, we hate daddy.”
My granddaughter is now almost 12 but still suffers at the hands of her mother. Her mother has had many men in and out of their lives but nothing sticks. My son has gone to his lawyer multiple times, had child services out to her house etc. But she is a master manipulator, presents herself perfectly, is very bright and beautiful and seems to always come out on top.
The best thing my gd has going for her is she is with my son and his wife of 5 years 50% of the time and I feel this has saved my gd. She has 2 little siblings now that she loves and all of this helps but I still see her struggling from her mother’s BPD, even though she knows nothing of it. My son tried to get my ex dil to go to therapy but each time she claimed there was something “wrong” with the therapist and she quit going.
I know my gd will continue to have to deal with her the rest of her life. My ex dil as I said never remarried, and has no other kids. So she plays many games to keep my gd where she wants her, sparing none of her feelings…nothing.
Anyway, when I see my ex dil at events, my behavior toward her varies.
If she’s done something that has upset my granddaughter or has neglected her in some way, I cannot and won’t even look at her.  If we have a number of days that are uneventful and my gd seems to be doing okay, then I can smile and be cordial. But then the next time I’m upset with her again and ignore her because of something else she’s done.  I want my behavior to be consistent for my gd. I never put her mom down in front of her because of course she loves her mother. My gd has developed facial tics and I believe this again, is due to what her mother puts her through. My son and his wife present a solid, sane, loving environment for her for which I am beyond grateful.
My issue is my own anger at my ex dil and how to come to terms with it when she is constantly messing with my granddaughter’s psyche. Thank you so much for listening. I struggle with this on a near daily basis and need to find a way to live with it as I know my ex dil will never change.

[LHR]

I should mention that my ex dil constantly lies to my granddaughter and of course lied to all of us on a near daily basis for 3 years when my son was married to her. My son had my granddaughter seeing a therapist for awhile and my dil told my granddaughter, “Your therapist told me you should be spending more time with me not your dad. But don’t tell your dad because it might upset him”. Well, my granddaughter DID tell her dad so my son called the therapist and asked her about this. The therapist replied that she never spoke to my ex dil at all. Lies, lies, lies.
My ex dil never seems to remember the things she’s done if my son calls her out.  It’s truly like she rewrites history in her own mind and then it becomes her reality so you cannot convince her she’s wrong. Anything that happens is my son’s fault or mine or someone else’s. It’s impossible to deal with her.

[Notwendy]

One of the most shocking things to me was discovering as an adult, how much my BPD mother lies to me (and others). I think children tend to have a trust for their mother and knowing she lies to me has eliminated any trust in her.

Lying is very destructive to any relationship but it's your DIL who is doing that and she's responsible for that behavior.

You are correct that being able to have your son and his wife as a stable family is a world of good for your grand daughter and so are you. My parents stayed married but I spent a lot of time with my father's extended family and that made a difference for me.

It's not possible to change your ex DIL and that is the mother your grand daughter has. It's good that she has had access to therapy. While this is a difficulty for your grand daughter, she still has a world of possibility ahead of her. She is her own person, and she can choose how much contact she wishes to have with her when she is an adult.

My BPD mother also does the "secret" thing. Eventually though, your ex DIL is responsible for her part in this relationship. Although my BPD mother doesn't take accountability for her behaviors- without trust, there can't really be a relationship. I am still in contact with my mother, but I can't believe what she tells me, and our relationship is cordial but not close. Not everything she says is a lie- some is truth, but I can't tell the difference so I can't fully believe what she says.

On your part- I think your feelings play a part in this- as is understandable but as you have learned, expressing them to your DIL doesn't accomplish anything. You will still need to see her at certain times- act cordial- that's all. Not too friendly, not hostile, as if she were an aquaintance.

My BPD mother dislikes my father's family and it is mutual. I wasn't fully aware of their feelings until later. They remain cordial with my mother and didn't say negative things to my father or us kids. I don't think they understood BPD, but knew to stay out of that triangle. I knew my mother's feelings and sometimes she's say things about them that I don't think are true or are her version of something.

You don't have much control over your ex DIL's behavior but you are a positive influence and role model for your grand daughter and this can make a difference for her.

[LHR]

 

One of the most shocking things to me was discovering as an adult, how much my BPD mother lies to me (and others). I think children tend to have a trust for their mother and knowing she lies to me has eliminated any trust in her.

Lying is very destructive to any relationship but it's your DIL who is doing that and she's responsible for that behavior.

You are correct that being able to have your son and his wife as a stable family is a world of good for your grand daughter and so are you. My parents stayed married but I spent a lot of time with my father's extended family and that made a difference for me.

It's not possible to change your ex DIL and that is the mother your grand daughter has. It's good that she has had access to therapy. While this is a difficulty for your grand daughter, she still has a world of possibility ahead of her. She is her own person, and she can choose how much contact she wishes to have with her when she is an adult.

My BPD mother also does the "secret" thing. Eventually though, your ex DIL is responsible for her part in this relationship. Although my BPD mother doesn't take accountability for her behaviors- without trust, there can't really be a relationship. I am still in contact with my mother, but I can't believe what she tells me, and our relationship is cordial but not close. Not everything she says is a lie- some is truth, but I can't tell the difference so I can't fully believe what she says.

On your part- I think your feelings play a part in this- as is understandable but as you have learned, expressing them to your DIL doesn't accomplish anything. You will still need to see her at certain times- act cordial- that's all. Not too friendly, not hostile, as if she were an aquaintance.

My BPD mother dislikes my father's family and it is mutual. I wasn't fully aware of their feelings until later. They remain cordial with my mother and didn't say negative things to my father or us kids. I don't think they understood BPD, but knew to stay out of that triangle. I knew my mother's feelings and sometimes she's say things about them that I don't think are true or are her version of something.

You don't have much control over your ex DIL's behavior but you are a positive influence and role model for your grand daughter and this can make a difference for her.

I should mention that my ex dil constantly lies to my granddaughter and of course lied to all of us on a near daily basis for 3 years when my son was married to her. My son had my granddaughter seeing a therapist for awhile and my dil told my granddaughter, “Your therapist told me you should be spending more time with me not your dad. But don’t tell your dad because it might upset him”. Well, my granddaughter DID tell her dad so my son called the therapist and asked her about this. The therapist replied that she never spoke to my ex dil at all. Lies, lies, lies.
My ex dil never seems to remember the things she’s done if my son calls her out.  It’s truly like she rewrites history in her own mind and then it becomes her reality so you cannot convince her she’s wrong. Anything that happens is my son’s fault or mine or someone else’s. It’s impossible to deal with her.

[LHR]

Thank you so very much for taking the time to share your story with me. You said some things that were so helpful. Firstly, that there is hope my granddaughter will see her mother for who she is once she gets old enough.  Right now, of course, she wants to believe her mother and she stands up for her and defends her when things go south. I believe most 12 year olds would as they love their mothers.
Secondly, your advice on being cordial. Not too friendly, not hostile, as if she were an acquaintance . Those words are so helpful, gives me direction, and make sense.
I’m so sorry you have to deal with a BPD mother but you seem like such a good person and it gives me hope my granddaughter will find a way to deal with her childhood, her mother, and come out fine on the other end of all of this. I know there will be struggles for her in her ongoing relationship with her mom, but you seem to have a good hold on how you choose to deal with this. I will hope for the same for my granddaughter whom I love with my whole heart and soul. Thank you again.

[Notwendy]

Thank you for your kind words. I credit the extended family and friends who loved and cared about us when we were kids- and especially my father's family. You have impact by being a consistent loving person to your GD and also a role model.

At age 12 she isn't emotionally mature enough to fully understand her mother's disorder. This relationship will take its own course. On your part, keep doing what you are doing- be the loving grandmother. It's great that you are showing up at her school events. Do some fun things with her- they don't have to be costly. Maybe a movie night- make some treats together and watch a movie that kids her age like. Don't try to be a peer or friend- her mother may be doing that- but be the role model female adult who takes interest in her and her world.

Read up on the Karpman triangle. This is what her mother is doing when she aligns with your D "against" her Dad. One reason to remain cordial is that showing any anger to her is adding drama on the Karpman triangle.

She may try to interfere with your bond with your GD and share "secrets" with her- your task is to remain cordial and build a positive bond with your GD. I don't believe it's possible to be effective by confronting the person with BPD. In my situation- I tried that and it only resulter in my mother escalating. Better to put your focus on positive bonds with your son and your GD.

[livednlearned]

I should mention that my ex dil constantly lies to my granddaughter

One thing you might do is help your GD understand the difference between lying, withholding, keeping secrets, forgetting, etc. In families with BPD it's extra important to really clarify what each of these mean and why someone might use them. The world is grey and BPD parents try to make it seem black and white, with most things as black and negative as can be, whether it's true or not.

I think it's Richard Warshak (author of Divorce Poison) who offers advice about how and why to do this for kids who have a BPD parent. We hurt kids when we say negative things about the BPD parent (more or less) so it's best to help our kids think for themselves, like whether or not to believe something, even and especially when it's a parent. Most kids eventually figure it out but it can take a surprisingly long time and there will be a lot of pain along the way.

With my kid, I would watch shows with him and express curiosity when I saw scenarios that helped me get him to think so he could apply it to different scenarios he experienced with his dad. My son's father has BPD traits and the lies were near constant, especially about me and my intentions, so he was taking away trust in me and undermining my attempts to help my son feel secure. Why a parent would take that away is beyond me.

"I wonder why your dad would say that. How did you feel when he said that?" was something I often said. It helped break the triangulation of me vs his dad and instead focus on how my son felt. More often than not, my son had a pretty good hypothesis for what his dad was doing and why, and it made him angry to be put in the middle. But instead of expressing that anger, he channeled it towards me so I would take over. This might be effective in the short term but we want our kids to learn how they feel -- BPD parents often undermine that -- and start to learn how their disordered parent works in order to better protect themselves.

I agree with Notwendy that you will have far more power if you sidestep the drama. It seems almost synonymous with BPD to try and triangulate people, and therefore keep drama constantly going. But that doesn't mean you can't protect yourself or take care of yourself. You can model this for GD. "I'm probably going to sit over on the side because this is a week where I know I need to look after myself and this is one way I do it. So come find me when you're ready - you know I love to see you." Just an example.

My son developed tics in his tween/teen years too. The stress of care-taking a disordered parent is a lot. He actually developed some that came and went and now he has none. Does GD12 have a therapist she can talk to?

[Blackwing]

It is almost sad how I wish my DIL was my ex-DIL! I read and feel all of your pain ladies. I have to admit that the only thing that I don't agree with is 'pacifying' the DIL by not allowing her to get to you. Walking on eggshells hasn't accomplished anything in our family, but to encourage her that she isn't behaving badly, and that treating others poorly is okay.

So, because I personally don't want to argue with her over her mean behavior, I confess, I literally, skip town! She has manipulated my husband out of money behind my Son's back, she texts discourteous messages to my daughter, and with her grandma, husband and myself, she has decided that disrespect and saying offensive things is more than okay.

My problem, is that I know 'running away' and leaving my loved ones to deal with her doesn't do anything but cause me to experience guilt. But if I'm not 'permitted' to protect my loved ones from her super negative advances, then what else can I do? (My excursions are usually only a few days long, but it is called self care, which is crucial). With her, I simply keep my bag packed now, and know that my family is on their own so to speak. Keeping faith for all of us .... And enjoying my time away.

[Notwendy]

Being cordial and emotionally neutral ("grey rock") is different from walking on eggshells and this suggestion was in context-how does one act in public such as school functions but it also has a place in family dynamics.

I think my father's family felt like you did but they weren't being cordial with my mother in her presence for her and they weren't pacifying her. They did it because they wanted to maintain contact with my father and us kids.

I can only speak from my own experience but I myself tried to do as you wish, protect my loved ones from my mother's behavior, but the dynamics were such that my father would "rescue" my mother from me. (Karpman triangle).

This included my father. He was elderly and ill and I stepped in to protect him from my mother's behavior- and he stepped in to rescue her. The two of them bonded together against any person they put in "persecutor" role.

I did protect my own children from my BPD mother but I learned from this experience that extended family would not have been able to directly intervene with my parents on our behalf as children if they wanted to have any contact at all.

You are considering that the DIL is the problem. This is what I believed as well. I thought my mother was the one with the problem and that my father was a victim of her behavior. That was until I tried to protect him. There was something about my father that "matched" my mother. He was part of the dynamics with her. To me, their relationship appeared to be difficult. I didn't understand why he tolerated it. But their bond was stronger than any other bond with any one else. Nobody could protect or rescue my father unless he decided on his own.

As to your own family, if your DIL is manipulating money from your H? I think it's important for the two of you to have a united front when it comes to your resources.

This is just my own experience but it seems that taking the neutral position leave the possibility for contact there while being more confrontational risks them going no contact with you. I think it's a good idea that you leave if you feel you would not be able to remain cordial in her presence. This is better than saying something back to her or arguing.

I don't say this because of her, but because if you do, you will be provoked into persecutor position and she will take victim position. This is part of the dynamic. PwBPD tend to take victim position but to do that, there needs to be a persecutor. If you see your DIL's behavior in this dynamic, it may help you to resist taking that one on and not participating in the dynamics.