National Abuse Hotline Advisor told me to just leave.

[JazzSinger]

I just contacted an abuse hotline. I was advised to just go ahead and get out for two days.  I was told I’m going to be verbally abused no matter what.

I know I have to do something.  I don’t want to wait until he has another outburst, when I’d have to run out to save myself.

I have to be fearless and just make my move. I was told to “choose wellness.” I was told that the verbal abuse is a choice.  I’m not sure about that, but I was on a chat with the advisor, and I could only explain so much. Still, I’m convinced the abuse is coming from my husband’s untreated BPD.

It did make me realize the seriousness of my situation, and how I’m choosing to stay rather than leave, even for a few days.  Guess  I need more self-examination too.

It’s on ME to save myself.

[Gerda]

Good for you! I remember one of the first big  for me was when I started Googling questions about my husband's behavior and the National Domestic Violence Hotline kept coming up right at the top of the search results. I never called them, but I did read a bunch of things on their website that let me know that yes, his behavior does count as being abusive, even if he hasn't actually hit me.

My therapist keeps saying, "You can't stop someone from abusing you," though I guess it's more like the only way to stop someone from abusing you is to leave them.

[JazzSinger]

Good for you! I remember one of the first big  for me was when I started Googling questions about my husband's behavior and the National Domestic Violence Hotline kept coming up right at the top of the search results. I never called them, but I did read a bunch of things on their website that let me know that yes, his behavior does count as being abusive, even if he hasn't actually hit me.

My therapist keeps saying, "You can't stop someone from abusing you," though I guess it's more like the only way to stop someone from abusing you is to leave them.

Gerda,

Thank you.

I realize it’s a process. I feel I’m almost there. I’m almost out. Truth be told, if I don’t leave, the abuse will never stop.

[Notwendy]

Did the counselor suggest leaving for two days as you planned- by deceiving him and just disappearing? If abuse is a concern- then on your return, there could be an escalation.

If you plan to return, I think you need to tell him- at least something- that you are going to visit a friend for two days. The counselor is correct in that he will react but if it's only verbal abuse, you would get that anyway. If you feel you would be in danger, I'd have someone with you when you leave and when you return. If he escalates and you feel unsafe- then you would need to call 911.

I'm just stepping in here as I don't know the level of abuse. All abuse is unacceptable but if it's a verbal tantrum and he's never been aggressive- and you are not in physical danger, then let him have his tantrum.

If you are in danger of physical abuse- going away for 2 days and returning won't help the situation and may escalate the danger. You would need to do a secret escape plan and not return. With physical abuse the time of leaving is a dangerous time. That is what the secret escape plan is for, not a 2 day leave.

DV shelters are often in unknown locations for a reason. To keep the escalated and upset partners from finding them. Abuse is also a cycle. Once the partner has calmed down, they may be sweet and promise to never do it again. Interesting that the person who left might return seeing that. You leaving for two days could cause this escalation and then you'd walk right back into it.

If the DV counselor suggested leaving for good, this is because the situation is not safe for you or good for you. Your part is to be able to decide this yourself. We don't post "run" mesages on this board for reasons- one is that unless the person is willing and ready to do that- they need to decide. Also not everyone in a relationship with someone with BPD  is in physical danger However, if someone is in danger, telling them to leave for their own safety is good advice.

To me - this looks like a complicated issue. For one, if you feel you need to deceive your H to get some time for yourself- the relationship is in a precarious situation.

Stay safe-

[JazzSinger]

I'm just stepping in here as I don't know the level of abuse. All abuse is unacceptable but if it's a verbal tantrum and he's never been aggressive- and you are not in physical danger, then let him have his tantrum.

To me - this looks like a complicated issue. For one, if you feel you need to deceive your H to get some time for yourself- the relationship is in a precarious situation.

Stay safe-

Not Wendy,

He’s never been violent. I think   I’ll just have to face  another angry, scary tantrum when I return. 

It is an awful situation.  When I’m out with friends, or doing something on my own without him, he’s fine. But he feels threatened at the thought of me spending the night anywhere, without him. I floated the idea a few times. He was livid. I was honest. I told him I just needed a getaway weekend for myself. He saw that as the beginning of the end of our marriage.  He was right, kind of.  So that’s why I think I have to lie and say I’m with friends.  If I can getaway and think clearly, I might figure out away to get him out of my life.

Thanks so much for your response.

[Turkish]

JazzSinger,

That's curious advice. Notwendy is right to point out that those at risk for DV have heightened risk upon return. It would be good to have a safety plan:

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety-first-dv-1.pdf

Who in real life can you turn to for support?

[JazzSinger]

JazzSinger,

That's curious advice. Notwendy is right to point out that those at risk for DV have heightened risk upon return. It would be good to have a safety plan:

https://bpdfamily.com/pdfs/safety-first-dv-1.pdf

Who in real life can you turn to for support?

Turkish,

Thank you

At my age, there are very few people around for support. I do have friends, but they’re mostly single or widowed women, living in city apartments. The most they could offer is a night or two away from home.

I’m going to reach out to my church — perhaps they can help. I’m really at my wit’s end. 

The only saving grace is that he’s never been violent. But he can’t seem to tolerate the idea of me spending a night away from home. 

If I could cover all of our bills here, and still be able to live comfortably, I would throw him out.   But I can’t do that.  And throwing him out would put him in a financial bind as well, after he’s supported both of our lifestyles for years. At the same time, he’s hard to live with.

I will figure it out.  I’ve got to free myself from his mania and verbal abuse.  I desperately need more peace in my life.

Thanks again.

[Notwendy]

There is a book : Controlling People by Patricia Evans that may help with perspective. She writes about verbal abuse- her books aren't specific to BPD but may help with information about the verbal abuse aspect.

What is behind his not wanting you to spend the night away is fear- it's not necessarity rational. He's afraid maybe you will leave him, or of his own anxiety and he wants you there. In the book, Patricia Evans uses the term "Teddy" like the teddy bears kids have for this kind of behavior to describe this situation.

You comply out of your own fears of his reactions, but that is also making you feel trapped.

No abuse is acceptable but it is good that he's not been physically violent. It doesn't mean it's not ever possible.

We can't change another person's behavior or feelings. We can only change our own. You have reasons to stay in this marriage- financial ones at least. What you want is some emotional space. You may need counseling to work on how to do this, and also how to safely do this. The counseling and support is for you to make changes to your own behavior. He will react but it's also possible he will learn to adjust. Overnight may be a big step but it may be possible to work towards that by doing some more activities away from home.

You have a church, and so perhaps your church has a women's group, or Bible study, or other volunteer group you can join so you are away more but at a designated time he can be aware of. Your H may have the emotional regulation skills of a toddler. What would a toddler do if dropped off at a new day care for the first time? Scream and cry. Eventually though, they learn that their parent will come back and there are fun things to do there.

You need to be able to manage your fears of his reactions if you are away for a short while. It may be that you need to work at this goal in increments while keeping safe. He needs to see that if you are gone for a while- he can manage and that you are reliable. If you do this by being deceiving and without any notice- that would increase his fears and he'd be even more controlling.

[JazzSinger]

There is a book : Controlling People by Patricia Evans that may help with perspective. She writes about verbal abuse- her books aren't specific to BPD but may help with information about the verbal abuse aspect.

Thanks, NotWendy.

I will look for this book.  Sounds like it will help.

What is behind his not wanting you to spend the night away is fear- it's not necessarity rational. He's afraid maybe you will leave him, or of his own anxiety and he wants you there. In the book, Patricia Evans uses the term "Teddy" like the teddy bears kids have for this kind of behavior to describe this situation.

You comply out of your own fears of his reactions, but that is also making you feel trapped.

 

Now that he knows I want a couple of days to myself, he’s definitely afraid of a breakup. And I feel trapped. It’s awful.

We can't change another person's behavior or feelings. We can only change our own. You have reasons to stay in this marriage- financial ones at least. What you want is some emotional space. You may need counseling to work on how to do this, and also how to safely do this. The counseling and support is for you to make changes to your own behavior. He will react but it's also possible he will learn to adjust. Overnight may be a big step but it may be possible to work towards that by doing some more activities away from home.

You need to be able to manage your fears of his reactions if you are away for a short while. It may be that you need to work at this goal in increments while keeping safe. He needs to see that if you are gone for a while- he can manage and that you are reliable. If you do this by being deceiving and without any notice- that would increase his fears and he'd be even more controlling.

Indeed, I  just need some emotional space, periodically.  I do spend time with friends and activities outside of the home, but it’s hard to fill an entire day. I’m older, and I only have so much energy. Also, there are times when he’s neither manic nor abusive, and during these times it’s nice to be able to relax at home.  We’re both musical, and that’s the one area where we can be together peacefully, enjoying our muse. He plays instruments — I sing. The problem is, the peaceful times are fewer and farther between.

My therapist also suggested that I increase my hours away from home, incrementally, so that he can adjust to being without me.  So far, it’s not working. He’s EXTREMELY CONTROLLING AND NEEDY.  It’s awful.

Part of me wants to give up on the idea of getting a couple of days away from home, for my own sanity. It’s complicated and he’s unpredictable.  But I’ve got to do something.

I am very grateful for all of your advice. 

[Notwendy]

Yes, as you spend more time away from him, it's going to get worse- at first. He has a set of behaviors that have worked for him. Being clingy, controlling and tantruming have worked for him. So why would he do anything else? By not giving in to his behaviors, he will eventually see that they don't work. At the same time, reinforce any positive ones.

Day activities could include visiting a friend and watching a movie together- quiet activities that aren't a stressor for you.

Seems your therapist is also suggesting something similar- spend time away allowing him to learn to manage this and you to get some time to yourself. He may eventually adjust, even if he doesn't like it, once you establish that this is what you are going to do- and he learns you do return afterwards. But his behavior could "get worse" before he adjusts.

[JazzSinger]

Yes, as you spend more time away from him, it's going to get worse- at first. He has a set of behaviors that have worked for him. Being clingy, controlling and tantruming have worked for him. So why would he do anything else? By not giving in to his behaviors, he will eventually see that they don't work. At the same time, reinforce any positive ones.

Day activities could include visiting a friend and watching a movie together- quiet activities that aren't a stressor for you.

Seems your therapist is also suggesting something similar- spend time away allowing him to learn to manage this and you to get some time to yourself. He may eventually adjust, even if he doesn't like it, once you establish that this is what you are going to do- and he learns you do return afterwards. But his behavior could "get worse" before he adjusts.

Thanks, NotWendy.

For sure — He’ll be worse, not better, at least for a time, if I take a break from him.  I’m starting to think a 2-day break is not worth it, unless I have a valid reason - like a sick relative, or someone far away who’d like to spend some time with me. The lying won’t work, unless it’s so palatable that it’s almost foolproof. 

But I am spending as much time as possible out of the house,  with friends and activities that I enjoy.  And now that it’s summer, he forces himself to spend a lot of time outdoors at parks far away, in the suburbs, as he vehemently puts down our lovely city home, where we live steps away from beautiful parks.  I rarely go with him, and for whatever reason, he’s okay with it.  (I think he knows it makes no sense to drive for hours to go to a park, when you live near several.) So here again, I get “me time.” 

I’ll figure it out.  And thanks so much for reminding me to reinforce his positive behaviors. It would also serve me well to write gratitude lists, everyday. Truth be told, even in all of this, I have a lot to be thankful for, and it isn’t all bad.  I sometimes become obsessed with his damaging behaviors.

If my writing seems less frantic right now, Im think it’s because he hasn’t been acting out the past couple of days. He’s cam. I have more peace, and I’m not exhausted. I’ve got to work harder on detaching, and focusing on the positives, so,I can stay less agitated, regardless of his behaviors.

Thanks again.

[Notwendy]

I’ve got to work harder on detaching, and focusing on the positives, so,I can stay less agitated, regardless of his behaviors.

Exactly- this is a boundary thing. It's not easy to live with someone and no be aware of their moods- but- his feeling are not your feelings and also not yours to fix. ( and vice versa).

Sometimes we can be in a cranky mood and it has nothing to do with the other person.

Boundaries are seeing whose feelings belong to you and whose do not. The better we can do this, the more we can not be effected by someone else's feelings. It doesn't mean we don't have empathy for others. You can be empathetic if your H is struggling but also know whose feelings are whose.

[JazzSinger]

Boundaries are seeing whose feelings belong to you and whose do not. The better we can do this, the more we can not be affected by someone else's feelings. It doesn't mean we don't have empathy for others. You can be empathetic if your H is struggling but also know whose feelings are whose.

Yes. I have to remember that his feelings are NOT mine.  If he’s miserable (which is the case, most of the time), it doesn’t mean that I have to be miserable too. I need to remember this. Sometimes I’m really good at it, the. At other times, I crumble.  It’s not easy, but I must ALWAYS set firm boundaries. 

Unfortunately, I rarely have empathy when he’s miserable and raging, even though I know he’s in pain. I usually just remind myself that he’s mentally ill, and I’m not.  But maybe that’s a form of empathy too.

Thanks so much. You’ve helped tremendously. 

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi JazzSinger,  

I'm just reading your thread and thought I'd pop in and offer my 2 cents worth. You're getting some very appropriate advice from the others who have responded, and I can see that you're thinking it through and mulling over all these things. I'm glad that at the moment you have a brief reprieve, time to catch your breath.

I have been in a very similar situation to yours. I was married for 35 years, and it took me a long while to realize that I was actually in a very emotionally abusive marriage. I didn't understand why I lived in constant fear and tiptoed around any potential conflict. My T helped to slowly shed light on my situation,  and my understanding came as I began to unpack my childhood with an uBPDm. No wonder I chose the DH that I did.

So, let's look at where you are. The light bulb moment after calling the hot line seems to have made you more aware. Shocking to see a new truth like that isn't it? I mean, how could this be? I'd like to share a resource with you that was and has been tremendous help to me. It's a book titled The Emotionally Destructive Marriage by Leslie Vernick. She has many YouTube videos/talks that may also be helpful to you. One is about the topic of if he doesn't hit you, does that mean it's not abuse? Let me know if you check her out. She was the most right on in my own situation to help me see and understand what was going on.

A caution for you is to be sure you are watching the videos or reading the book on a safe computer where he cannot track your site visits. Do you have a password protected account? You can get the book in E form, so perhaps you can read it on a tablet or your phone, again, only if they are password protected. Do you know if your phone has a tracker on it to follow your whereabouts?

I think that's enough for now from me. Please let me know how you are doing today, and I definitely encourage you to check out Leslie's info.

Take care,  
Wools

[jaded7]

Yes. I have to remember that his feelings are NOT mine.  If he’s miserable (which is the case, most of the time), it doesn’t mean that I have to be miserable too. I need to remember this. Sometimes I’m really good at it, the. At other times, I crumble.  It’s not easy, but I must ALWAYS set firm boundaries. 

Unfortunately, I rarely have empathy when he’s miserable and raging, even though I know he’s in pain. I usually just remind myself that he’s mentally ill, and I’m not.  But maybe that’s a form of empathy too.

Thanks so much. You’ve helped tremendously. 

Just following along and sending you good thoughts JazzSinger. I so recognize your feelings here and am glad you have this board for advice and support.

The call to the abuse hotline is something I did myself and they told me it was abuse, and I had a therapist that told me in no uncertain terms my ex was abusive.

It's hard to internalize that for me, maybe for you too. I feel like I should be able to take the verbal insults and put downs and yelling (and much more). I feel like she must have had a good 'reason' for acting the way she did. And then I turn it all around and say it was my fault.

Getting to the place where you really know it's abuse is hard for some of us. Patricia Evans was mentioned in this thread. Her book The Verbally Abusive Relationship has been a lifesaver for me. It really gets to the heart of the matter and captures the dynamics of these relationships so well.

Her central theme is 'power over' and 'mutuality and co-creation'. The abuser is operating from a power over perspective and we are operating from a mutuality and cocreation perspective in the relationship.

Thus we have different lenses, and the world of the relationship looks so different for each party. And that's why it's so hard to understand our partner's behavior and actions....it makes no sense in our world view. WE'D never do/say that, why would we? We have no desire or need for power over.

[JazzSinger]

Hi JazzSinger,  

I'm
So, let's look at where you are. The light bulb moment after calling the hot line seems to have made you more aware. Shocking to see a new truth like that isn't it? I mean, how could this be? I'd like to share a resource with you that was and has been tremendous help to me. It's a book titled The Emotionally Destructive Marriage by Leslie Vernick. She has many YouTube videos/talks that may also be helpful to you. One is about the topic of if he doesn't hit you, does that mean it's not abuse? Let me know if you check her out. She was the most right on in my own situation to help me see and understand what was going on.

A caution for you is to be sure you are watching the videos or reading the book on a safe computer where he cannot track your site visits. Do you have a password protected account? You can get the book in E form, so perhaps you can read it on a tablet or your phone, again, only if they are password protected. Do you know if your phone has a tracker on it to follow your whereabouts?

Thank you, Woolspinner.

Actually, my lightbulb moment about the verbal abuse came years prior to my call to the hotline. It started almost ten years ago, but the name calling and put downs didn’t happen very often. Still, I found myself in therapy, trying to figure things out. At that time, my marriage was mostly good.  He had a lot more health than he has now. Gradually, over the years, he got worse and worse. There were also signs of serious mental illness, including manic behaviors, and frightening outbursts.His anger is often disproportionate to the situation at hand. The  past couple of years have been a living hell. Last year, in a desperate attempt try to understand what was wrong with him, I came upon this website.  It’s a godsend.

I called the hotline because he’d been particularly difficult the past few weeks.  It’s hard to explain his behavior. He’s all over the place. He’s manic, complaining and complaining and complaining  nonstop,  about EVERYTHING, not just me. It’s upsetting. Nerve wracking. Exhausting.I need a break from him.  Thank God there’s never been any physical violence.But he’s a lot. 

I will look for the book you recommended. I’ll check out the YouTube videos too. I only read books like this in my Kindle app, and I always use earbuds when I  watch videos — he’ll never know.  All of my devices require facial recognition, so I’m safe. 

Thanks so much.  I really  appreciate your support. 

[JazzSinger]

Getting to the place where you really know it's abuse is hard for some of us. Patricia Evans was mentioned in this thread. Her book The Verbally Abusive Relationship has been a lifesaver for me. It really gets to the heart of the matter and captures the dynamics of these relationships so well.


…we have different lenses, and the world of the relationship looks so different for each party. And that's why it's so hard to understand our partner's behavior and actions....it makes no sense in our world view. WE'D never do/say that, why would we? We have no desire or need for power over.

Jaded7, Thank you.

I’ve read the book! It was a lifesaver for me too!  I thought she was talking about my husband in every paragraph! I practically highlighted the whole book.  And I think it’s what led me to this website.

It’s so true that we see life through very different lenses. I would not and could not ever do or say the things my husband says and does. 

Thank you so much for sharing, as well as for your support.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi again JazzSinger,

Some of the things you mentioned are so familiar to me, and it sounds like you've been working on understanding and strengthening yourself for a while now. Excellent!  I didn't realize that my time in T was actually changing me in good ways, like helping me to react less and starting to emotionally detach. I wasn't aware of it as much as my DH was, I think, for the intensity began to ramp up in our relationship. He became more and more toxic, and as you mentioned...

It’s hard to explain his behavior. He’s all over the place. He’s manic, complaining and complaining and complaining  nonstop,  about EVERYTHING, not just me. It’s upsetting. Nerve wracking. Exhausting.I need a break from him.

...it is very hard to put your finger on what's going on because so much confusion exists in these relationships. Remember, it's not you. Truly. Yes we have things too work on that can help us,  but nothing you do will change him. From what you've shared, he wants you to always stay the same and not disrupt his world by staying overnite someplace. It's insecurity on his part.

I've also read Patricia Evans book and must say it is quite good! Some great help for those of us in these very difficult marriages.

 
Wools

[JazzSinger]

Hi again JazzSinger,

Some of the things you mentioned are so familiar to me, and it sounds like you've been working on understanding and strengthening yourself for a while now. Excellent!  I didn't realize that my time in T was actually changing me in good ways, like helping me to react less and starting to emotionally detach. I wasn't aware of it as much as my DH was, I think, for the intensity began to ramp up in our relationship. He became more and more toxic, and as you mentioned...

 
Wools

Thank you, Wools.

I think you’re right — I’m changing in good ways.  I’m detaching from his unhealthy behaviors. I’m cherishing other relationships with friends and family who are supportive and accept me as I am.  I’ve realized I am quite grounded and balanced. I’m searching for things I can be passionate about and do on my own, other than music, which is something I share with my uH.  I’m engaging in more self-care. I have firmer boundaries -  I will NOT put op with his put downs or reckless behaviors, like driving while watching videos.

Unfortunately, the downside is that due to financial constraints, I  can’t leave. So I have to try to live my best life, in my golden years, in spite of him.

Thanks again.

— JazzSinger