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Author Topic: Girlfriend is idealizing her boss. They had a drink after finishing project.  (Read 377 times)
Cluster Beeline

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: broken up
Posts: 16


« on: July 09, 2024, 02:58:16 PM »

 Bullet: important point (click to insert in post) Split from : message_board/index.php?topic=358656.0

I feel nothing but empathy for you and your suffering--I have been in similar positions several times. You are only 22 and have so much life in front of you. And because of this I am going to be honest with you.

Your internal turmoil stems from a conflict between your unconscious mind which is perfectly aware that your girlfriend is cheating on you with this older man and your conscious mind which is attempting to rationalize away and suppress this extremely painful reality.

Your suffering is the cornerstone of a triangulation that your girlfriend has created with the older man. You are experiencing and expressing the pain she felt when her mother provoked whatever primal trauma that causes your girlfriend to suffer from BPD. When your girlfriend sees you in bed suffering, she is reliving her childhood trauma--but this time from a position of power. She is playing the mother role and you are playing your girlfriends suffering inner child. She is able to create this suffering through the engulfment of her father figure--the older man.

None of this is her fault, nor is she able to stop the process. She has a mental illness and cannot be "talked into" becoming normal. She suffered during childhood and has an obsessive drive to relive that experience. It will be with her for the rest of her life. You cannot shame her into stopping by expressing your emotional pain.

Expressing your suffering to her only reinforces the cycle and drives her closer to the old man. If you were to remove yourself from this triangulation, the reality of his exploitation of her will no longer be balanced by the thrill of your pain. Their relationship will soon fall apart.

There are three ways to end a triangulation. One is to remove yourself from the toxic dynamic and have no contact with the other two points of the triangle. Second is to remove any distance between you and the older man. This would mean encouraging her to have the relationship and to not be bothered by it. The third way is grey rock: to ignore the relationship and to give no emotional reinforcement back to her.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which of these strategies would work best for you.
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2024, 02:59:02 PM »

There are three ways to end a triangulation. One is to remove yourself from the toxic dynamic and have no contact with the other two points of the triangle. Second is to remove any distance between you and the older man. This would mean encouraging her to have the relationship and to not be bothered by it. The third way is grey rock: to ignore the relationship and to give no emotional reinforcement back to her.

Hi Cluster.

I wanted to comment on this a bit. When you say "triangulation" do you actually mean "love triangle"? These are very different psychology concepts.

Love triangle: My understand from reading the OP is that he doesn't believe they are in a relationship - rather she is idealizing him as the "bestest boss ever" and they spend a lot of work time together.

Triangulation: Is when two people are in conflict and rather than resolve it together, one seeks a third party to agree and support their side of the conflict. It is a common human dynamic. Everyone does it to some extent.

I'm not sure either of these are at play.  

The tools for handling triangulation are discussed here https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle  No contact and passive aggression (grey rock) are not on the list.   Being cool (click to insert in post)
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Cluster Beeline

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: broken up
Posts: 16


« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2024, 03:05:43 PM »

Hi Skip,

When I use the term triangulation, I am setting up a binary where a bilateral affair is at the opposite extreme of the spectrum. In an affair (emotional or physical) driven by triangulation, the purpose is the emotional charge created by the flow of energy/tension between the aggrieved partner and the intruding third-party. For example, the intruder gets idealized by having illicit access to another man's woman. This feeds the BPD cheater's desire for powerful emotional experiences. This intense emotion momentarily soothes the BPD's fear of abandonment. As at the same time the aggrieved partner gets devalued, this places the cheater in a detached position of emotional power, which regulates the BPD's fear of engulfment.

In a pure bilateral affair, the purpose is to feed the selfish desires of the cheater. He or she attempts to hide the presence of the other party from each of his other partners. There is no intermingling of energy. The classic example is at a man's funeral when a woman with a couple kids approaches the grieving widow and explains that she had no idea the widow's dead husband, who is the father of this woman's kids, was married.

These are two ideal types on the extreme ends of the spectrum and most actual cases will fall somewhere in between. These are observations from my empirical experiences and I apologize if they don't match up with official lingo.

With the triangulation affair, since the (unconscious) goal for the cheater is the exchange of emotional energy between the the two other parties, the strategy for the aggrieved partner is to cut off this flow of energy. Obviously the easiest way is to exit completely the triangular relationship.

But for those seeking to continue they are only left two options. One is to close any distance between the aggrieved and intrusive parties. Your idea of all three spending time together is a brilliant example of this. That would totally disrupt the current dynamic and energy flows since being all together would tend to "friendzone" the intruder, and raise the status of the aggrieved partner.  

The other way is what I perhaps mistakenly called "grey rock." What I mean is for the aggrieved partner to totally disinvest emotionally from his partner's relationship with the intrusive partner. This is captured in your very correct advise to Burningpile to "drop the neediness" and other advise to keep a neutral tone during this crisis. My point is perhaps broader, that by never emotionally responding to the appearance of the intrusive partner, the BPD partner will have less of a motivation to engage in this activity in the future.

This emotional neutrality is of course difficult to execute but for someone invested in a relationship with a BPD, this mindset of emotional neutrality is an important tool to deploy when these situations arise. But since most of us had no idea that we were getting involved with a BPD until it was too late, it normally takes a few of these situations before we are able to hone our ability to control our emotional responses.
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2024, 05:24:28 PM »

Cluster Bee

In your first post above, I understand you to say that there are:
  • hidden affairs (the cheater's partner(s) unaware of each other)
  • visible affairs where one or both partners aware of each other.

PWBPD motivations for secret affairs are:  
  • selfishness

PWBPD motivations for visible affairs are:  
  • reduce engulfment and abandonment anxiety, or
  • too experience the thrill of living dangerously, or
  • splitting/punishing.

3 options for the person being cheated on are:
  • encourage the cheating
  • act like you don't care about the cheating
  • go no contact  

Does this really paint the why and the what to do?

Just a side note - I encourage everyone to write in simple English and limit the jargon to those terms defined by the American Psychiatric Association. These terms can be looked up and there is an abundance of research to supplement our understanding. Made up terms or urban legends may sound cool, but they make it hard to know what is being said and make it impossible to fact check.
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2024, 06:02:14 PM »

Does this cover it?

Certainly your thoughts about reducing engulfment and abandonment anxiety, or experiencing the thrill of living dangerously, or splitting/punishing are valid. But PWBPD are also driven by the same motivations as people without BPD. Love affairs and sexual affairs are the most common motivations. Self-esteem affairs are probably more common in the BPD population than the general population as you suggest. As for options for the person being cheated on, its a one down situation at best.

People generally have 4 types of affairs
.       love affairs,
sex-driven affairs,
self-esteem affairs
empowering affairs

The reasons to cheat tend to be:
.       Emotional Disconnect
Desire for Excitement or Variety
Lack of Satisfaction
Seeking Revenge or Retaliation
Issues with Commitment or Intimacy
Opportunity and Circumstance

Options for the person being cheated on are:
[Note: very different for families, marriages, single living together, and singles].
.       Protect yourself (socially, financially, w/family)
Find out if the cheater wants to save your relationship
Decide if you think relationship is worth saving and if you think your partner can make the significant changes to recover from infidelity
Consider practical matters and what options you have
Get help/counseling to cope with your loss.
Don't feel pushed into anything - your world has been rocked - take time to sort it out
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Cluster Beeline

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: broken up
Posts: 16


« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2024, 06:27:19 AM »

Cluster Bee

In your first post above, I understand you to say that there are:
  • hidden affairs (the cheater's partner(s) unaware of each other)
  • visible affairs where one or both partners aware of each other.

Yes, this is an abstracted, idealized spectrum designed to better understand response strategies. I established this binary because I believed the original poster was responding appropriately for the more typical hidden affair, but inappropriately for the visible affair.

Upon discovering a hidden affair, expressing pain or even awareness of the affair forces the cheating partner to make a decision: either end the affair or end the primary relationship.

Obviously, real life is not so abstract, and actual affairs usually fall somewhere between these hidden-visible extremes.

PWBPD motivations for secret affairs are:  
  • selfishness

Yes, the motivation is selfishness, but I did not mean to limit secret affairs to those with BPD. In fact, secret affairs are common and occur within all psychological categories. My purpose in establishing the hidden/visible binary was to propose solutions to each type. People with BPD may start with hidden affairs and gradually make them visible to their partners.

PWBPD motivations for visible affairs are:  
  • reduce engulfment and abandonment anxiety, or
  • too experience the thrill of living dangerously, or
  • splitting/punishing.

To profoundly grasp the motivations of someone with BPD, we must return to her primal trauma. Instead of attaching to her and properly caring for her, her parents symbolically "cheated" on her by pursuing other interests and imposing emotional distance.

Her compulsion to replay this drama during adulthood drives her to reenact this dynamic in two ways. One way is by choosing abusive or emotionally unavailable partners, allowing her to replay her victim role. By accepting this abuse, she assuages her fear of abandonment.

The second way occurs when she gains a vulnerable partner. She will eventually visibly cheat on him, as her parents symbolically did to her, and assume the dominant parent role, "friend-zoning" her dependent partner. In his woeful pleas, she recognizes the pain she suffered as a child. This emotional separation between her and her partner / inner child helps dampen her fear of engulfment.

My first BPD partner was an unwanted child born to young college students. With exciting lives ahead of them, they couldn't be bothered to love and raise her, so she ended up bouncing between their unwelcome homes and her equally unwelcome grandparents' houses. In effect, her parents "friend-zoned" her through their physical and emotional distance. She spent her adult life redeeming her wounded child through the cruel treatment of her sexual partners. Alternatively, she had one-night stands with rough men far below her social status. Fortunately, I was only temporarily vulnerable due to the loss of my son to cancer, and I got out after a few months of experiencing the type of emotional pain she must have endured as an abandoned child.

3 options for the person being cheated on are:
  • encourage the cheating
  • act like you don't care about the cheating
  • go no contact  

Yes but the first option has two branches. A totally dependent partner will just have to radically accept his plight of being a partner to a cheating pwBPD and try to minimize his losses, by disassociating and even encouraging it. This approach kills the pwBPD's vibe of repeating the primal trauma but is no guarantee that she will not continue the affair just for the thrill of it.

An acutely dependent partner who still maintains a spirit of resistance can generalize the situation. He might say, "Oh, I didn't realize we were just sex buddies. As a man, I am totally into playing the field and not being tied down by commitment. So, yes, please go ahead and see that guy. There just happens to be a hottie at work who has been showing interest in me." This must be followed by real downgrades in the relationship, such as moving out and losing interest. A woman will always win this battle in the short term since, if she is remotely attractive, she has no problem finding willing sex partners. So no bluffing! This strategy, if executed without wavering, will likely destroy the relationship, which is in the man's long-term interest anyway.

The "act like you don't care" can easily degenerate into denial. If the pwBPD senses denial, she will up the ante with public antics until denial is no longer sustainable. The totally dependent partner will just have to accept his fate and try to distance himself from the pain.

The less dependent types can use this period of ignoring the affair to prepare their departure on their own terms. As counterintuitive as it feels, reacting emotionally to her cheating gains nothing in either case. It's like a BPD bird of prey and a dependent lamb. The lamb must accept that it is in the nature of BPD birds of prey to emotionally swoop down and carry them away as a meal by cheating. However, the less dependent lamb may finally recognize that he is dealing with a dangerous BPD bird of prey. Instead of staying vulnerable in the relationship, he can get away and seek shelter. In both cases, the BPD bird of prey is simply acting according to her essential nature and is not morally responsible for her actions. That's the nature of mental illness.

The third option of no contact is self-explanatory and is obviously the best response to infidelity. Leaving the drama means starting the process of dismantling the relationship. But this option is reserved for those who are not fully dependent.

The multitude of stories on these boards testifies to the near impossibility of sexually "domesticating" a young and attractive person with BPD. We may object to the term "domestication," but it accurately describes the process both partners in a monogamous couple must undergo. Due to her primal trauma, a person with BPD will lean toward being feral to monogamy throughout adulthood.

The overall strategic goal of these responses is to divert the BPD's compulsion to repeat her primal trauma through cheating. Through therapy, she may find less destructive ways to mend her childhood wounds. The lack of emotional response to her cheating means she will not recognize her suffering young self in her nonchalant partner. A secondary effect of some of these responses is to provide a path for less dependent partners to exit the relationship. For those who are dependent, getting her into therapy and other support is also important.
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Posts: 7034


« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2024, 02:07:50 PM »

So this is your truth and it's founded in your current on-again, off-again relationship of six years, an prior experiences and observations.

How would you describe your current "BPD" relationship? Is she one of a number of girls you date (and vs versa)? Is this a preferred lifestyle for now? For as long as it lasts? Do you have interest in moving toward a more committed relationship with someone else in the future (or her)? 

I read that you lost a child. I'm very sorry your family experienced such a heartbreaking tragedy. Were you married at the time? How did you transition from there to where you are now?

Skip

I am currently in hiatus with my second, more mild BPD. In fact I enjoy these down times since I get motivated to work out, take cold showers, etc, etc. She will eventually call when spring re-enters her heart and things will be great for a certain period of time. We have been going through these cycles together for six years now and so when I feel her signs of dysregulation, I back away as calmly as possible to give her the space to deal with her internal emotional turmoil. Of course we do not live together or have children, so I am free to withdraw at the drop of a hat. I have learned the hard way that contacting her during her emotional winters is a catastrophe for both of us.
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