Advice for a Safe, but Kind, Exit?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

 

This is my first time posting in this section of the board.

Reading through the lessons, I realize maybe I finally hit the “acceptance” phase back in April of this year when my uBpDh of nearly 10 years threatened me with a weapon.

Since 2021, after he basically made a half-hearted attempt kill me while splitting and blackout drunk, I had been bouncing between the earlier stages of grief listed.

Is it appropriate for me to ask for feedback with regards to strategies for exiting?

Right now, I think my biggest hangup is “the belief I need to stay to help them” and also maybe a bit of “in sickness and in health.” I really care about him.

But I’m also scared of him.

I have no idea, honestly, if this is a situation where I need to leave town without warning, or if it would be better to talk to him in person first. It is absolutely gut wrenching either way, because he tells me I’m his whole world, essentially, which makes me nervous and uncomfortable.

Adding to the complexity of leaving: I am financially dependent on him, though I have recently acquired training in a field I hope to be able to use to support myself.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or experienced perspectives you might be willing to share with me.

[hellosun]

 

This is my first time posting in this section of the board.

Reading through the lessons, I realize maybe I finally hit the “acceptance” phase back in April of this year when my uBpDh of nearly 10 years threatened me with a weapon.

Since 2021, after he basically made a half-hearted attempt kill me while splitting and blackout drunk, I had been bouncing between the earlier stages of grief listed.

Is it appropriate for me to ask for feedback with regards to strategies for exiting?

Right now, I think my biggest hangup is “the belief I need to stay to help them” and also maybe a bit of “in sickness and in health.” I really care about him.

But I’m also scared of him.

I have no idea, honestly, if this is a situation where I need to leave town without warning, or if it would be better to talk to him in person first. It is absolutely gut wrenching either way, because he tells me I’m his whole world, essentially, which makes me nervous and uncomfortable.

Adding to the complexity of leaving: I am financially dependent on him, though I have recently acquired training in a field I hope to be able to use to support myself.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or experienced perspectives you might be willing to share with me.

[kells76]

Hi hellosun, good to hear from you again 

Asking for feedback about exit strategies makes sense, given that your situation isn't a "generally normal" one where "we both just kind of grew apart". He threatened you with a weapon, in addition to another episode of trying to kill you, and has been blackout drunk. Given those serious variables, it makes a lot of sense to be thoughtful and planful about leaving the relationship.

To me, those variables sound like domestic violence. None of us go into relationships hoping or anticipating that DV will show up -- but it can. I knew things weren't great at my H's kids' mom's house, but I never thought DV was in play... until our oldest told us otherwise a few months ago.

I made my first of ~3 calls to our local DV hotline around that time. I made my calls in my car in the parking lot at work, on my lunch breaks. I never thought it'd be me calling but I'm grateful I did, to get some perspective. In our area, the DV hotline is anonymous, so it isn't like making a report to a therapist or CPS, where the person you are telling is a mandatory reporter and might initiate a process whether you want to or not. The DV hotline staff I spoke to were calm, educated, and provided feedback to help empower me to make safe decisions. You're in control when you call a DV hotline -- you can hang up any time, and you can take none or all of their advice.

They will understand your mindset -- the challenge of being hung up on beliefs that you can help him, or you should stay committed. They will be able to help you talk and think through those beliefs and decide for yourself whether to adhere to them or make changes.

I can't recommend it enough. It's incredibly grounding to get another set of eyes on the situation.

I have no idea, honestly, if this is a situation where I need to leave town without warning, or if it would be better to talk to him in person first. It is absolutely gut wrenching either way, because he tells me I’m his whole world, essentially, which makes me nervous and uncomfortable.

That sounds like a really important question to ask when you call.

After you call, let us know how it went -- I'll be interested to hear about your experience.

And remember, calling the hotline doesn't mean you "have to" leave, or "have to" stay, or have to do anything. It's just getting information to help you make wise, balanced, safe decisions 

[hellosun]

Thanks so much for your advice, kells76! I took it, and it went well.

I was really sorry to read about the situation for your H’s kids, but in reading your updates it’s always heartwarming to see how much intention and care you are responding with. I am glad you were able to access the support offered by the DV hotline, and that it helped empower and inform your decisions.

Yes, an important question indeed. Thank you for emphasizing it. I did ask it. The hotline respondent stressed to me that it would be best if I did NOT offer any indication whatsoever of any desire or intention to leave, and that I do so without warning.

Not gonna lie, that increased my fear. But it also strengthened my resolve to protect myself, too. So I guess that sometimes fear is a helpful emotion...

However, right now it feels a bit unhelpful. A little over a week ago, I told one of my friends what was going on, which made it feel more “real” somehow (nobody else in my life knows). Since then, I haven’t been able to eat or sleep much (fear keeps punching me in the gut), and I’m already mildly underweight.

All that to say, I feel like facing the reality of what I will likely have to do to prepare and to leave has increased my stress levels, and I was already getting burnt out as it was.

Fun times, . I hope it’s okay to express the emotional rawness of this here. Right now, my therapist doesn’t know about the situation, but is aware I’m working through limiting beliefs related to childhood trauma and abuse.

So far, I have no concrete plan with regards to how I might leave, only ideas I’m exploring.

[hellosun]

I saw my sister this weekend and decided to have a short talk with her. Though I didn’t chose to explain the details, she read between the lines. And I did tell her I’d have to leave without notice.

Not sure if I’ll ever tell anyone else in my family what’s going on, even if I get through it one day.

Right now, I am looking into possibly lining up a job in a city far away from where I live currently.

I’m worried about what he’ll do after I leave. I can’t bear the thought of hurting him, and yet...he threatened me, so, he clearly doesn’t feel the same way.

[hellosun]

My mother was diagnosed today with a cancer that is usually fatal.

I am going to move in with her to care for her as long as necessary.

My husband accepts this.

I am trying the strategy in this resource from John Carver:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=305771.0

If my uBPDh’s response so far is anything to go by, Carver’s method isn’t going to work... It’s far too subtle, and he is far too clingy.

Today I was watching a video about BPD, and he said: “I don’t have BPD.”

He has told me multiple times today how much he loves me, and that he’s here for me...but I just feel numb. I don’t even have to pretend to “grey rock.” I just am.

But I still nurture and validate and help and all the things one does to care for their significant other.

I’ve been thinking about compartmentalization, and how it’s easier to blame the BPD for the abuse I have experienced, than to blame him for it. There are so many ways he is childlike, and I respond by wanting to care for him, but I want to be married to a man who is properly grown up and doesn’t have angry tantrums.

We had a conversation today about how he doesn't believe possessiveness or jealousy are red flags in a potential romantic partner. I disagreed. So he does have limiting beliefs often held by men who batter.

[hellosun]

I have been living with and caring for my Mother since my last post, which has obviously been challenging and emotional in itself.

But to focus on the subject of the thread, it feels like I'm in limbo...because I don't know what to do or say to my husband to ask for a divorce. I don't want to trigger him, so I've acted as though everything is normal. He lives a half days drive away from my parent's town, however he has driven down a couple of times on weekends to see me.

When he is here, he love bombs me, I think? He says such sweet and comforting things to me, however there are moments where the mask slips and he utilizes anger to control. It's kind of heady, but I wouldn't say entirely safe or comfortable.
 
Since learning about attachment styles (Heidi Priebe's YouTube channel is excellent, btw), I understand that the disorganized part of my attachment pattern has led to the isolation I have felt since the domestic violence increased, which triggered toxic shame and avoidance as a coping mechanism. I also understand why my attachment to him is so strong still...

But since I was able to form two secure attachments over the last couple of years, one with my therapist and one with a friend whose non-judgemental and consistently loving energy built deep trust, I was able to recognize that relationships aren't supposed to be the way I have experienced them...

So I took an evening this week to contact another help line worker, who suggested I simply pack up my things at my husband's apartment and go no contact afterwards.

It seems like such a cruel and horrible way to end such a long relationship.

Quite upsetting to think about. Has anyone ended a relationship with someone with BPD more gently?

[ForeverDad]

So I took an evening this week to contact another help line worker, who suggested I simply pack up my things at my husband's apartment and go no contact afterwards.

It seems like such a cruel and horrible way to end such a long relationship.

Quite upsetting to think about. Has anyone ended a relationship with someone with BPD more gently?

This may sound a little too pragmatic, but I sometimes comment, "It is what it is."  By that I mean that we have to deal with life as it is, not as we'd want it to be.  And sometimes life sucks.

Beware that one of our admirable qualities - a sense of fairness or niceness - can easily sabotage us.  As long as you're not nasty or nefarious, you don't have to follow your natural inclination to be "fair" or "nice" since doing so may expose you to risks of the other's negative reactions, especially if you're physically present in scenarios where you don't have family, friends or witnesses with you.

For example, if you're pondering collecting some of your belongings from the shared residence, don't do it alone, bring someone trusted with you.  And if you're worried in-person contact can set off an incident, you can always ask police to ensure nothing happens.  While you don't want to amp up conflict with confrontations, you also have to prudently have protection available.

[HealthTeacher]

I just left my BPD ex, and I believe I did it in the nicest way possible while also protecting myself... and it was HARD. I am absolutely positive that if you ask him, I went about this in the nastiest way possible. To him, I abandoned him completely... I shut him out completely... I wouldn't respond... I wouldn't even respond to my friends when he had them reach out to me for information... I put his remaining items in a storage unit so I wouldn't have to see him again... I blocked him and his family... I sent him a no-trespass order so he would never step foot on my property again... COLD... right?  It was the best possible route for both of us. I was protecting him as much as myself. I wasn't cruel. I didn't fight... but if you ask him... I am evil. His biggest fear came real: abandonment by the one woman he finally gave his whole heart to... the one woman who was actually ride-or-die... the one woman who was actually unconditionally there for him... until she wasn't.

I went with no contact. He still contacted me. I waited too long to block him... but he didn't know because he thought he was already blocked when he texted me. I suppose he was still using the texting/calling channel "just in case," but he assumed he was blocked. This made it harder for me and I didn't actually block him until I was ready. I wish I was ready earlier. He contacted my friends. He still does. It is up to them to block him. They tell me what he says to them. They probably shouldn't, but I know it's their attempt to keep me in the loop since he does pose a threat and he is coming back to my town to try one last time to get me back... so I sent a no-trespass order certified mail that he would have to sign for, as if he had been served. Will that work? Time will tell. The no-trespass letter had nothing personal in it... no personal note from me. It was very cold, and it was a template provided by law enforcement. If you look at my threads, I was so tempted to smooth things over and explain myself. I was convinced that was NOT the right thing to do... and they were correct. Everyone here has fabulous advice and sometimes tough love. It may be hard to hear, and what they suggest may be hard to do, but it's worth it.

I have felt guilty the whole time... but I know that the guilt comes from two places: (a) my previous emotional trauma/wounding and (b) legitimate compassion because this just sucks for all parties involved, and nobody wants to feel this way... and those with BPD would "survive" their deep-seated emptiness in a healthier way if they were equipped to do so.

I would rather deal with guilt every day until it tapers off and dissipates than continuing to deteriorate and lose myself in a supremely unhealthy relationship. My ex had rage blackouts too. He has put his hands on me in anger. He has thrown things and had complete black-out tantrums that seem like a psychotic break. I would MUCH rather deal with my own guilt. I am in therapy for that. I can't fix him. I can fix myself. I can also patch the holes he has created in my own psyche in order to burrow himself in there...

I wasn't with him for 10 years. I was with him for one. I don't imagine I would have survived 10. I would probably still be alive, but I would be a shell of a woman. I feel like when I met him I was mentally and emotionally physically fit... sexy and confident... but over time, he put weight and ugliness on me directly or indirectly... and I didn't even recognize myself when I looked into the mirror... and I miss my beach body... but recognize to get that mental/emotional beach body back, he's gotta be gone, and I've got to hit the mental/emotional gym... with therapy... if I ever want to recognize that woman in the mirror... AND if I want to attract something healthy for the future. You are in therapy, so you already have this foundation of support. Thank goodness.

I echo ForeverDad's sentiments. Your desire to help and exercise compassion is a trap. I have realized that a lot of my desire to be "kind" and compassionate was really an attempt at protecting myself from their turbulent moods, which was actually learned behavior from growing up in an abusive household. When you never know what to expect, you want to do everything in your power not to initiate the negative side to come out... we control what we can control. This, aside from the way he has depended on you probably gave you some validation. In abusive relationships, they are very consciously or unconsciously manipulative when it comes to validation since it is like a currency for them. They need this validation to feel like a "person" and have become so maladaptivley adept at manipulating others so that they feel like they are behind the steering wheel when it comes to this commodity... and to feel like they are in control. You get validation when he's feeling the need to call you back to him... and finds ways to take it away when he seneses a threat. Over time, you can become so accustomed to the validation you get from caring from him (especially if your partner has been splitting and deteriorating your internal sense of validation or creating a situation that drives a wedge between you and those who care about you and also offer safe, healthy validation). Before you know it, you are codependent. A big part of who you are now is what you have become: his caretaker. You have poured so much of yourself and your attention into this role that it becomes a part of our ideology and harder to leave, even though the rational side of our brains screams "run!"

[hellosun]

Thanks, ForeverDad. Clearly acceptance of reality has been difficult for me, or I wouldn't have stayed with this man for my entire adult life. I will not be returning to our--now his--apartment again alone with him, and will take someone with me when I go to get my possessions.

And thank you, HealthTeacher. It sounds like you are a loving, empathic person. I appreciate your insight, and am sorry for the sorrow and pain you are dealing with right now. Some of your observations to apply to me, as well, though in my case I actually got healthier because my husband took care of me when I was sick. He's also capable of attunement, affection, and being supported when regulated. So both guilt and genuine grief over loss of what certainly has felt like true love.

Anyway, this is the hardest thing I've ever had to contemplate in my entire life.

[hellosun]

Well, I did it via a four hour long text chat, while in a safe location unknown to him, where I remain.

My therapist's advice contradicted the advice given by the domestic violence support advocate with whom I connected last week, so I combined it...which maybe wasn't the best approach, but it is what it is. Remains to be seen how it all plays out as my husband moves around the stages of grief.

I feel wretched.

But also, I know this is for the best.

My therapist says he likely has Angry BPD subtype, which the psychologist in the video he sent me suggests has some overlap with NPD. My husband has been saying contradictory things...fortunately I have an appointment with my therapist on Monday.

[kells76]

Hi hellosun, good to hear an update from you.

Four hours is a long time for a text conversation, especially for a breakup. That sounds exhausting.

Do you feel like you communicated what you wanted to (regardless of how it was received)?

My therapist's advice contradicted the advice given by the domestic violence support advocate with whom I connected last week, so I combined it...which maybe wasn't the best approach, but it is what it is. Remains to be seen how it all plays out as my husband moves around the stages of grief.

These are not boilerplate situations so it makes sense that you'd receive advice that seems to be contradictory. The stuff my H's kids' told me could've merited a CPS call much earlier, but my T -- a mandatory reporter -- and I both had the sense that a CPS call might actually make things worse for the kids. So I get it; the "it's simple, everybody should just _________________ in your situation" advice doesn't always capture the nuance of navigating PD relationships. Unintuitive is right.

Do you plan to stay in touch with your H? That is to say -- I'm curious how you would know how it's playing out, if you're ending contact with him? Or is that more a general statement.

My husband has been saying contradictory things...fortunately I have an appointment with my therapist on Monday.

Was he saying the contradictory things in the breakup text conversation? Or is he still communicating with you, even after that?

No right or wrong answer... just getting a better sense of your situation.

You sound tired... are you still working, getting out of the house, etc? What relaxing things have you been able to do for yourself over the last few days?

For a few days after we called CPS back in May, I had weird physical symptoms -- I was really, really, really thirsty but not hungry. I suspect that my body was dumping all its internal contents "for battle" so I was low on H2O and electrolytes. I ate a lot of instant ramen and kale smoothies. Maybe tune in to how you physically feel, if that feels safe, and see if you can meet some of those needs?

[ForeverDad]

Years ago I recall many posts described "negative contact" as being (almost) worse than "no contact".  At some point we need to call it quits when it has become an ended relationship.  Why prolong the pain of contact.

Of course, it's your decision when to stop responding but be aware that continuing contact without a real positive goal/outcome is a common situation we face.

[SinisterComplex]

Well, I did it via a four hour long text chat, while in a safe location unknown to him, where I remain.

My therapist's advice contradicted the advice given by the domestic violence support advocate with whom I connected last week, so I combined it...which maybe wasn't the best approach, but it is what it is. Remains to be seen how it all plays out as my husband moves around the stages of grief.

I feel wretched.

But also, I know this is for the best.

My therapist says he likely has Angry BPD subtype, which the psychologist in the video he sent me suggests has some overlap with NPD. My husband has been saying contradictory things...fortunately I have an appointment with my therapist on Monday.

HS, I certainly understand how hard all this is and how you feel totally makes sense. However...follow me here and try to shift your perspective ever so slightly. What I mean is okay you feel wretched, but that is rather weighty correct? So, lets approach this mentally a bit different...

You know this is for the best so in that case put this in your mind...You did this FOR YOU, you did NOT DO THIS TO HIM. That little simple shift can make a world of difference mentally and emotionally.

I am not saying that is a going to be a magic pill, but I do believe if you can practice saying this to yourself and putting that into your mind this whole process will be made much easier for you to get through.

Make sense?

Please be kind to you and take care of yourself.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[hellosun]

SinisterComplex - Yeah, you're totally right. Thank you for reminding me that my needs for safety and autonomy matter. I did this to protect myself, but it honestly also protects uBPD husband as well.

In a more recent conversation, I told him: "if you were missing me because your violence led to my death, I wouldn't be here to message you anymore. It's better to miss me because I'm safe."

I am taking the time to care for myself in ways that had been neglected when I was living with him, and it is feeling good! And having started working with Internal Family Systems with my therapist is bringing awareness to "parts" of myself I haven't been as kind towards as I wanted.

ForeverDad - I'd say it's "positive contact," because while I am not attached to outcome necessarily (though my hope for my uBPD husband to chose recovery is strong), there is enough secure attachment for growth to be observed in both parties resulting from our friendship. If it becomes wholly destructive to even one of us, then I would reconsider my decision. I do get what you're saying, and I appreciate your taking the time to comment as ask me such an important question.

kells76 - Yes, I was so tired, thank you! I appreciate your taking the time to share your experience, and ask me to check-in with myself. I'm still pretty tired, not gonna lie, but I have been taking the time to go on walks, write in my journal, practice grounding in the forest...solitary pursuits, but relaxing and meditative to incorporate into my daily routine. Finding positive community is something I am working towards, too. I'm continuing to make new friends, and grow deeper bonds with my most intimate friends. Having "fun" is something I could stand to do more of, though, haha!

For context, a significant portion of our marriage was spent long-distance, and text has always been his preferred form of communication. We are both on the autism spectrum, so it is more comfortable to us in some ways. Most of our communication currently is via text.

Yes, both my uBPD husband and I wish to continue our friendship. He has accepted responsibility for "not being a good husband," and the consequences of broken trust with regards to our marriage. He recognizes that rekindling romance isn't going to be an option. Yet he wants us to support one another in healing.

This is what feels right to me at this time.

Now that I'm doing IFS work with my therapist, I recognize the contradictions my husband presents come from different "parts" of himself that are highly dysregulated.

For my own growth, I need to practice attuning to my own needs and emotions and expressing those needs and emotions to others.