Struggling to accept he was abusive

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Does anyone else have a hard time accepting and admitting they were in an abusive relationship? I just feel like I was so blind to it all. It was my grandmother who pointed out that he was abusive to me and it really shocked me to hear someone say it. I guess I've just been conditioned to accept abusive behavior my whole life especially from male figures (sexual, emotional, verbal and physical abuse from my father ) I just saw my ex as so much better than what I went through with my dad I never even had the term ABUSE even on my radar.

My ex never hit me or anything physical, he only started yelling at me the last two times I interacted with him, he never called me names but inferred alot about my jealous, manipulative, scheming, trapping, guilt tripping, making him feel horrible about himself ways (all which i never did and couldnt even think of doing the things he accused me of).

But his emotional manipulation of the situation, and I guess you could count sexual (manipulation? Abuse?) using me for sex but not wanting anything serious then baiting me back in with I love yous and sweet talking to be intimate then having a heated talk about him feeling tied down with me.  Lots of panicking on his part, never calm, no security for me.  Then him blaming me for how he feels, accusing me of manipulating all sorts of things *which I never did*, hiding me from his friends and not being public with our relationship, many long talks where I felt like I had no idea if he even liked me as his friend, him using my mental health struggles against me in our last call, him being dishonest with his intentions and feelings about a relationship with me, bringing up old fights,  and being incredibly insensitive and cruel just to hurt me *even though he would deny punishing me*

he would make me out to be this scary monster who he's scared of being committed to and it's my fault he lied to my face about being in love with me. Because he just wanted to make me feel better and didn't really mean it. He said how he's so angry and resentful towards me but never told me why? or for what?

He once had a panic attack about himself being a  "bad person" ( to which i comforted him and hugged him saying sometimes we all think poorly of ourselves and i knew hed get thru it)- looking back on this ... alot of the things related to the way he was treating me and how he deep down knew he was hurting me.  He said he's scared of looking like a bad guy, a bad friend, a bad boyfriend. And I COMFORTED HIM despite him actively hurting me and devaluating me.

I asked my mom if he was abusive
And she said yes he was,
"Anyone who makes it unsafe to be yourself and makes you feel like, to be loved=you have to change your core beliefs,  is being abusive"

I guess I have this delusional image of him still, and tend to make excuses for his behaviors.
I have a hard time admitting he was abusing me.
I read other stories on here and know I got out before it got seriously bad. (Do you think it would have escalated to more obvious abuse?)

I'm grateful I'm out but I have a hard time sitting with the uncomfortable reality of what it really was like. I still miss that imaginary version of him being kind to me with consistency.

How long did it take before you Demystified your person and their behavior?

I just hate feeling that I can't see him clearly. Maybe it takes longer because it was so sudden a breakdown and so big a shift that digesting that and seeing it unclouded takes time. I get confused at what even happened and what he really felt. It was like talking with someone who didn't have a good grasp on reality or their feelings and I felt alot of the time I was playing a referee or caretaker role to help him work through his anxiety.

And completely neglected my own needs

[Missygirl]

Does anyone else have a hard time accepting and admitting they were in an abusive relationship? I just feel like I was so blind to it all. It was my grandmother who pointed out that he was abusive to me and it really shocked me to hear someone say it. I guess I've just been conditioned to accept abusive behavior my whole life especially from male figures (sexual, emotional, verbal and physical abuse from my father ) I just saw my ex as so much better than what I went through with my dad I never even had the term ABUSE even on my radar.

My ex never hit me or anything physical, he only started yelling at me the last two times I interacted with him, he never called me names but inferred alot about my jealous, manipulative, scheming, trapping, guilt tripping, making him feel horrible about himself ways (all which i never did and couldnt even think of doing the things he accused me of).

But his emotional manipulation of the situation, and I guess you could count sexual (manipulation? Abuse?) using me for sex but not wanting anything serious then baiting me back in with I love yous and sweet talking to be intimate then having a heated talk about him feeling tied down with me.  Lots of panicking on his part, never calm, no security for me.  Then him blaming me for how he feels, accusing me of manipulating all sorts of things *which I never did*, hiding me from his friends and not being public with our relationship, many long talks where I felt like I had no idea if he even liked me as his friend, him using my mental health struggles against me in our last call, him being dishonest with his intentions and feelings about a relationship with me, bringing up old fights,  and being incredibly insensitive and cruel just to hurt me *even though he would deny punishing me*

he would make me out to be this scary monster who he's scared of being committed to and it's my fault he lied to my face about being in love with me. Because he just wanted to make me feel better and didn't really mean it. He said how he's so angry and resentful towards me but never told me why? or for what?

He once had a panic attack about himself being a  "bad person" ( to which i comforted him and hugged him saying sometimes we all think poorly of ourselves and i knew hed get thru it)- looking back on this ... alot of the things related to the way he was treating me and how he deep down knew he was hurting me.  He said he's scared of looking like a bad guy, a bad friend, a bad boyfriend. And I COMFORTED HIM despite him actively hurting me and devaluating me.

I asked my mom if he was abusive
And she said yes he was,
"Anyone who makes it unsafe to be yourself and makes you feel like, to be loved=you have to change your core beliefs,  is being abusive"

I guess I have this delusional image of him still, and tend to make excuses for his behaviors.
I have a hard time admitting he was abusing me.
I read other stories on here and know I got out before it got seriously bad. (Do you think it would have escalated to more obvious abuse?)

I'm grateful I'm out but I have a hard time sitting with the uncomfortable reality of what it really was like. I still miss that imaginary version of him being kind to me with consistency.

How long did it take before you Demystified your person and their behavior?

I just hate feeling that I can't see him clearly. Maybe it takes longer because it was so sudden a breakdown and so big a shift that digesting that and seeing it unclouded takes time. I get confused at what even happened and what he really felt. It was like talking with someone who didn't have a good grasp on reality or their feelings and I felt alot of the time I was playing a referee or caretaker role to help him work through his anxiety.

And completely neglected my own needs

[HealthTeacher]

Yes, a lot of people feel that way. Nobody wants to admit that these things are happening and we engage in self-deception about it... and we generally don't like to share it with others because it is embarrassing AND we don't want our partners to encourage us to leave if we are not ready AND we don't want our friends/family to dislike them AND we don't want to have to feel that embarrassment publicly... for me, as a health educator... and professor... teaching about healthy relationships and being part of only toxic ones is a hard pill to swallow.

Abuse can look like a lot of different things. Actually, I have a list that I share with my students in my human sexuality course... and almost all students get to a point where they hang their heads... they have either done these things, received this treatment, or both. But yeah... technically... if anyone does something that restricts you with guilt, fear, gaslighting, or any other mechanism of control... it is abusive.

[Skip]

Does anyone else have a hard time accepting and admitting they were in an abusive relationship?

Is incapable a better word?

Abusive is such a broad and overused term, I'm not sure it is helps to think of your relationship in this way. Especially given your past with your father. Most everyone who experience a relationship failure could say it was abusive. I've seen people describing a forgotten birthday as abuse. I've seen people define sexual molestation of a child as abuse.

he would make me out to be this scary monster who he's scared of being committed to and it's my fault he lied to my face about being in love with me. Because he just wanted to make me feel better and didn't really mean it. He said how he's so angry and resentful towards me but never told me why? or for what?

So he is saying you were abusive. And your reaction to this is that he was abusive. You see my point? I'm not agreeing with him - just saying that tagging him as abusive (or you as abusive) might not help you heal or provide you with any insight.

Setting your part of the relationship aside, as I read your relationship summary of him (first post), your 10-year relationship dates back to when he was 15 and is punctuated many periods of apprehension and lack of commitment on his part alternating with periods where he agrees to try and build a relationship with you, but is at best, tentative.

Understanding that this is a guy with chronic attachment issues might be more helpful to you. You've known him for 10 years, so you can conclude that it is not just a phase he is going through. He doesn't sound like terrible guy - although he did some hurtful things when dealing with his chronic attachment issues.  

Here's the part that may help.

No one can have a stable warm attached relationship with a person with long term attachment issues. You have tried for 10 years and it hasn't happened. If you slug it out another 10 years, you will have 10 more years of ups and downs - no stability. Maybe a little better. Maybe a little worse.

You are still holding on to hope that this will fix. Many of us do (did). But more than trying to convince yourself that he was abusive (which you are having a hard time doing) - it might be better to embrace that he is incapable.

After ten year, do you think he is capable?

Advice I give many people here is that when we start rebuilding after a failed relationship, look for someone who is mentally healthy. Two people in a relationship with mental health issues is not a great formula for success.

[jaded7]

Missygirl, yes. It's a very common mental struggle. I've been in the loop myself.

Trying to understand what abuse is and then working in my mind to categorize the abuse, asking therapists if 'this' or 'that' was abusive.

I've lately started wondering why this is important to me, because it is. I think it has to do with needing to clear my head of the things
she called me and accused me of. Or maybe it's because I miss her and don't want to miss her?

It is very confusing.

I know that therapists and psychologists do say that it is super common to ruminate and research.

[Skip]

I've lately started wondering why this is important to me, because it is. I think it has to do with needing to clear my head of the things
she called me and accused me of. Or maybe it's because I miss her and don't want to miss her?

Does it have anything to do with the fear that the relationship failure was about us "having not been good enough".

I sense a lot of people feel that if a relationship that we really wanted to succeed fails, and our partner wasn't defective, then we must not have been good enough.

A hard (and simple) concept to grasp is that the majority of relationships fail and that is the norm. A successful relationship is the exception. Like winning a championship. At lot of thing have to come together at the right time.

[Missygirl]

I agree Skip incapable is a good word.
So is cruel, hurtful, dishonest, toxic

I'm not trying to peg him as an abusive partner. Or try to label him as a bad man.
I'm trying to digest the opinion from others that he was abusive.

I think a better way for me to explain or define his behavior is at the very least unacceptable, toxic and unsafe, and at the last part of became verbally abusive.

I don't think i can say the relationship was: at its core: abusive
But his behavior at times became abusive.
He abused my trust, my naive nature, my love for him. And used me to make himself feel better. (He admitted " I don't know if I have you around because I like you or like how you make me feel about me")

Abusive is such a broad and overused term, I'm not sure it is helps to think of your relationship in this way. Especially given your past with your father. Most everyone who experience a relationship failure could say it was abusive. I've seen people describing a forgotten birthday as abuse. I've seen people define sexual molestation of a child as abuse.

Quote from: Missygirl on August 14, 2024, 01:48:26 AM
he would make me out to be this scary monster who he's scared of being committed to and it's my fault he lied to my face about being in love with me. Because he just wanted to make me feel better and didn't really mean it. He said how he's so angry and resentful towards me but never told me why? or for what?

So he is saying you were abusive. And your reaction to this is that he was abusive. You see my point? I'm not agreeing with him - just saying that tagging him as abusive (or you as abusive) might not help you heal or provide you with any insight.

To be clear he's never said I was abusive, and perhaps his use of feeling these things about me- was a projection of his own thoughts of his behavior.
 
im not saying im blameless but i only did what he asked of me to make him feel *less triggered* and rarely stuck up for myself
[he started an argument over me bringing him cookies to make him feel better accusing me of all sorts of nasty scheming things]

Please note this is NOT just a reaction to his breaking up with me
I am only trying to figure where my line of acceptable behaviour was crossed and how aggregiously it was done.

He has said that me putting effort into healthy communication, and doing personal work is intimidating- and scary for him because he feels like he can't match my investment in a future.

His chronic attachment issued make alot of sense, i think this prompted alot of frantic and hurtful behavior from him (which I would label as toxic and manipulative)

I am  just trying to really understand what was going on. The hardest part is- why did I excuse and put up with this behavior.

Does it have anything to do with the fear that the relationship failure was about us "having not been good enough".

Yes I totally resonate wirh this, and felt this way at the beginning. But now I see that his thinking and behavior doesn't follow much logic or honesty

Jaded- I totally feel this

I've lately started wondering why this is important to me, because it is. I think it has to do with needing to clear my head of the things she called me and accused me of. Or maybe it's because I miss her and don't want to miss her?

The need to clear my head of the confusion from this, to see this clearly. To be able to accept that his behavior was abusive and not acceptable maybe I can steer clear of it in the future?

Yes, a lot of people feel that way. Nobody wants to admit that these things are happening and we engage in self-deception about it.
--
But yeah... technically... if anyone does something that restricts you with guilt, fear, gaslighting, or any other mechanism of control... it is abusive.

I think that resonates alot with me Health Teacher.
The self deception is a big hurdle I'm trying to break down to see this for what it was.
He did alot of hurtful things including what you mentioned above.
I agree with Skip too that he comes from severe attachment issues and is incapable
I also agree that his behavior was indeed abusive to me at times (whether be verbally, or emotionally).
I'm not trying to label him as an abusive guy he's got alot of things going for him (but alot of that I've held onto- ignoring the corrosive behavior)
I think the fact that he made me feel like I had to lessen myself to suit him was a form of abuse- manipulation and control. Whether he consciously meant to do it or it was a part of his attachment problems I think is irrelevant.  I'm not saying he's a bad guy- I still love parts of him and cherish the good times (although I wonder how much I invented and held on to breadcumbs)

I cherished him and put his needs before mine, I think that made me ignore his behavior and created a delusion/self deception I need to dismantle.
 

[jaded7]

Skip...oh it most definitely has to do with potentially feeling not good enough.

Because I was told I wasn't good enough in so many ways- eating, drinking, writing, cooking, running my business, marketing, sleeping, sex, driving, gift giving, speaking to business associates...the list goes on and on. Many times.

And also, I was told she loves me.

Missy I get that part "trying to digest the opinions from others that he was abusive". Multiple therapists have told me that her behavior was
abusive, very abusive. And here I am trying to digest that. As if THAT is the key to freedom from the rumination and heart break.

We have to come to know ourselves again, if in fact we are good people. And I think I am.  And I think you are.

My attachment to my partner was deep.....very deep. It's still there. In spite of the fact of all the things she did. To me this is a core
attachment wound, the kind that touches needs in me from childhood.

You ask why you allowed and tolerated his behavior. I ask myself the same thing. I feel shame about it, and I then think that maybe the fact
that I allowed her to treat me so poorly made her not want me. Which creates a weird loop! What, she wanted me to fight her? She wanted me
to say no to her, and to shut her down angrily when she was yelling and me belittling me? That would have made her love me more?

But I don't want a relationship where I'm always tested, especially not with put downs and verbal abuse.

For me, and I don't know for you MissyGirl, this relationship touched my 'love' construction from childhood. My very idea of what love is, derived from my upbringing where I was always in trouble, always bad, no emotional support whatsoever, no seeing of me as a person:

people who 'love' me get very irritated at me, and it's my fault
people who 'love' me don't take my interests seriously, think they are silly
people who 'love' me are cold and icy toward me
people who 'love' me get angry and upset at me
people who 'love' me think I'm annoying and needy

...and so on. And like you, I cherished her and put her needs before mine.....because I'm not allowed to have needs, and if I do I'm "too needy".

So, just like in growing up...I shut myself down, allowed the verbal and emotional abuse and believed the words.

I'm hopeful this helps in working through this MissyGirl. I totally get where you are coming from, and I'm working through the same things.

[seekingtheway]

Hi Missygirl,
I think it's a very natural process that you're going through right now, and I think it's a necessary one if you want to find some clarity in your mind, because confusion is such a huge, huge part of this kind of relationship.

A few of your comments stood out to me:

The need to clear my head of the confusion from this, to see this clearly. To be able to accept that his behavior was abusive and not acceptable maybe I can steer clear of it in the future?

I do think a lot of rumination comes from a place of not feeling safe, feeling very wounded, and wanting to protect yourself from it in the future. It's your brain trying to find safety. And we think we can only protect ourselves from it if we truly understand absolutely everything about it. I'm not sure that's the entire truth, because I think we can observe how something has made us feel, and simply decide we want nothing to do with someone who engages in that kind of behaviour in the future because the feelings it brought up for us were intolerable to us. But I think a lot of us aren't ready to just trust how we 'feel' about things, and that's why we intellectualise things instead. Myself included here by the way.

Sometimes staying angry and in rumination can mean we stay connected to that person as well... we are not ready to let go. And I do think we also try and create villain and victim roles so that we can escape feeling our own shame. But I hear what you're saying, it does sound like just trying to make sense of it so that you CAN let go.

The word 'abuse' covers so many things and while I think it's important that we continue to call things out for what they are so we don't get into a habit of brushing things under the carpet, I'm not sure that specific word helps you to make sense of the intricacies of your experience.

As part of my own dismantling, only very recently, I made a long list of patterns I'd noticed in my ex's behaviour towards me. I didn't focus on individual memories, but patterns over time...I broke it all down as factually and with as little bias as I could. The list got pretty long, but it felt good to just get it out and look at it in black and white. Another thing you could do is focus on how his behaviour made you feel - tricked, confused, demeaned, belittled, unsafe etc. Breaking down the whole experience in a logical way can be so helpful to just help you put some of it to bed.

I also wrote down my own responsibility, things I did and patterns I was engaging in that weren't healthy, or I wish I'd done differently. This list was harder to write, but it was useful and gave me a blueprint of healing steps to work on in therapy.

I cherished him and put his needs before mine, I think that made me ignore his behavior and created a delusion/self deception I need to dismantle.

This comment is insightful because it brings your focus back to you - and something that you have got the power to do something about it. Because we all play a part in every dynamic... and the important thing here is to find your own truth, and try to trust it. That's all any of us can do. Try and find our own truth.