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Author Topic: COMPARISON: PTSD vs BPD  (Read 6460 times)
Wanna Move On
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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2013, 08:41:44 PM »

I have done a lot of reading on BPD, as a diagnostic entity, and about COMPLEX-PTSD. Not standard, classic PTSD, but specifically "Complex-PTSD." The overlap between the two seems stunning.

I have recently spent some time in AA. (Yes, I had a little bit of a drinking problem post a BPD breakup.) And the one thing that SHOCKED me as I listen[ed] to qualification after qualification, floor share after floor share, is that it seems 90-plus% of the people in AA suffer from either some version of BPD or some version of C-PTSD.

I've also read where Marsha Linehan said, in reference to her realization (prior to her development of DBT) that it seemed the population of suicidal females she initially worked with AND those who were classified as "BPD" in inpatient hospitals where she worked, seemed to be one and the same overlapping crowd.

Similarly, it seems that virtually all the people in AA present with diagnostic symptoms that match with what is labeled as "BPD" and/or "Complex-PTSD."  

Is it possible that BPDer's, C-PTSDer's and alcohol/drug abusers are all one big overlapping crowd, conceptually made to seem distinctive and separate merely by virtue of the fact they are assigned different diagnostic labels?

I'd appreciate any conceptual feedback on this intriguing subject.
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« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2013, 05:25:20 AM »

Is it possible that BPDer's, C-PTSDer's and alcohol/drug abusers are all one big overlapping crowd, conceptually made to seem distinctive and separate merely by virtue of the fact they are assigned different diagnostic labels?


Comorbidity of personality disorders was seen as the flaw in the DSM-IV that inspired a new nomenclature system proposal for the DSM 5.0  Just prior to publication, it was determined that the new nomenclature needed more clinical study so it was moved to the appendix to provide a framework for future studies.

C-PTSD is subcategory of PTSD which not recognized by the American Psychiatric Association as a mental disorder. It was not included in DSM-IV or in DSM-5, published in 2013. To our knowledge, except for a few bloggers, there is no movement to change the name BPD to PTSD.  The direction of the new nomenclature is to have a general personality disorder category for people with overlapping PDs.  This would actually lower the number of people in the category of BPD.  

While there is co-morbidity, BPD and alcohol abuse are not the same thing. And half of the people with BPD do not have PTSD - even fewer have C-PTSD.

There are a lot of comorbidities with BPD.

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« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2013, 02:14:29 PM »

Skip, I appreciate your response and I do understand that BPD and alcohol/drug abuse are not the same thing. Maybe the failure was in my communication; maybe it was inexact.

What I was referring to is the statistical reality that the vast majority of people who diagnostically present with BPD and/or C-PTSD are alcohol and drug abusers, to varying extents. And that I recognized from a degree of time involved with AA, that it seems virtually everyone in those rooms present with some degree of BPD and/or C-PTSD symptomology.

I was just wondering, out loud, if the BPD, C-PTSD and alcohol/drug abusing crowd are, in fact, the SAME overlapping crowd, but seen as conceptually distinct due to semantics and/or inexact constructs such as diagnostic labeling.

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« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2013, 02:21:31 PM »

And now that you have seen the data, what do you think?
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Wanna Move On
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« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2013, 02:26:03 PM »

What do I think? I guess there is an enormous degree of overlap between those three diagnostic categories. I guess there is a tremendous degree of comorbidity, as you suggest.
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« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2013, 03:03:30 PM »

This will help pt the combined number in perspective

https://bpdfamily.blogspot.com/2012/03/28-of-us-population-have-either-mental.html

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Wanna Move On
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« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2013, 03:26:03 PM »

Wow! (I read the link you posted about raw numbers and perspectives.) Again, wow!

Skip, thanks for such prompt responses. I really appreciate it.
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« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2014, 05:08:29 PM »

BPD is also referred to as "Complex PTSD" by many people who work in the health or medical fields. Regardless of the descriptive names given to these behaviors, there are various similar traits shared by BPD and PTSD traits. BPD may be related to childhood traumas and / or external or dietary toxins while Complex PTSD, in turn, may be related to one or more traumatic life events. Either way, one may have a smaller or "zapped" Amygdala, which then may be the catalyst for these behavioral traits.

www.BPD.about.com/od/relatedconditions/a/Complex-PTSD.htm

Quotes: "Complex post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is also sometimes called "disorder of extreme stress not otherwise specified" (DESNOS). This is a condition characterized by three categories of symptoms: emotion dysregulation, dissociation and problems in physical health.

Complex PTSD or DESNOS is thought to result from severe and chronic childhood maltreatment. Complex PTSD is not listed as a separate diagnosis in the DSM-IV; the features of complex PTSD are instead listed as "associated features" of PTSD.

One of the reasons that complex PTSD was left out of the fourth edition of the DSM was that experts in the field felt that this syndrome was so similar to borderline personality (BP) that it did not warrant a separate diagnostic category. Indeed, many of the features of complex PTSD are also core symptoms of BP. A critical difference, however, is that the cause of BP is not always known, whereas complex PTSD can always be traced back to traumatic events.

Emotion Dysregulation

Severe emotion dysregulation is a symptom typical of both complex PTSD and BP. In both conditions, people experience very intense emotions that shift unpredictably and are difficult to soothe.

Dissociation

Both complex PTSD and BP are also associated with dissociation. Dissociation is a state of altered perception that leaves people feeling "unreal," "zoned out," or "numb." In complex PTSD and BP, dissociation is frequent and chronic – it tends to happen often and can continue for long period of time.

Physical Health

Complex PTSD is also associated with problems in physical health, such as chronic pain, a proneness to frequent illnesses and frequent and complex medical problems that do not respond to medical treatment. While physical health problems are not in the diagnostic criteria for BPD, research suggests that many of these same medical problems are associated with BPD."  

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