Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
November 25, 2020, 01:39:45 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
81
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Is the BPD really the problem?  (Read 4530 times)
Skippy
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 649


« on: November 15, 2006, 09:55:41 AM »

THIS IS FOR THE CHOSENS ONLY

Is it any more complicated than this... .



  • we (nons) have codependency's that can cause us to bind too much in relationships... .


  • BPD are attacked [attracted] to people they can manipulate to fall "heads over heals" for them... .




*** this union creates a significant lock between the BP needs on the nons codependency and a protracted dysfunctional relationship evolves

*** whether it is the first time problem relationship or a lifetime of problems, is probably related to the nature of our codependency or ineffectiveness in addressing it and chance (encountering a BP interested in us).

*** how long we stay, or how long we suffer/commiserate alone is related to the degree of our codependency, or ineffectiveness in addressing it

*** and the "mitigating factors" (children, finances, etc) are just rationalizations for our codependency on the beauty, youth, affection, etc.

Sure, BP is a pathological condition.  They do awful things to us.   

So does fire if you can't pull your hand out of it.  So is it the codependency's, and our ineffectiveness in addressing the codependency's  that burns us?

Skippy

Edited to correct typo - thanks Bob58
Logged
Bob58
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1697


« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2006, 10:01:02 AM »

Excerpt
BPD are attacked to people they can manipulate to fall "heads over heals" for them... .

A most apropos Freudian slip, Skip!   Smiling (click to insert in post) LOL
Logged
Bob58
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1697


« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2006, 10:17:37 AM »

Now to answer the question seriously... .

My answer is "It depends".

Why do I give such a wishy-washy answer?  Because, as I see it, there is more than one problem going on in any Chosen Borderline relationship.

If the question is "What is the largest problem preventing a happy and healthy life in my current relationship with a person who suffers from seriously Borderline traits?"  Then, I'll say "YES".  The significantly Borderline traits are the real problem.

However, as Skip implies, there is a hell of a lot more at the root of the issue than "Why is my current relationship failing?"

If you accept that a person with BPD (or seriously BP traits) is what they are (and always were) and will not change, then I say "No", BPD is not the core issue.

The core issue would be more along the lines of:

"Why was I attracted to a person like this in the first place?"

"Why would I continue to tolerate that kind of behavior from a person who was supposed to love me?"

"Why would I... .*fill in the blank*?"

None of those things have to do with BPD.  They have everything to do with us.
Logged
JoannaK
DSA Recipient
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married to long-term 9-year partner (also a non)
Posts: 22837



« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2006, 10:20:26 AM »

Often, but not always.  I do believe that some nons are less emotionally healthy than other nons.  Also, some with BPD/NPD are very, very high functioning when we meet them and they are more effective in deceiving a prospective non.  

But I do think that your analysis of a BPD/non relationship is very appropriate for a large percentage of these relationships.
Logged

dbg

*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21


« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2006, 12:35:48 PM »

I dont know. They will do anything to get their needs met. What are you suppose to do when your girlfriend is always depressed, crying and cant take the least amount of rejection? She would cry if i read a newspaper on a train while we together. This meant i didnt love her. Is this when we are supposed to run for the hills? If they cant abuse you, they will con through weakness and then once they get some strength,  they will find someone else, usually behind your back and quickly switch to him/ her and then paint you black.  BPD is the problem and they fact that they are pathetic cowards, liars and souless monsters.
Logged
Skippy
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 649


« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2006, 01:24:39 PM »

bg...

If you went to a nice restaurant, but the food was bad/spoiled... .

   and you read in the paper that the health department has issues with the restaurant

      but you kept going every day

          and then you got horribly sick... .

Should you question the practices of restaurant? or your own?
Logged
kathy45
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 242


« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2006, 01:30:38 PM »

I suppose you  are right skip... .

But the hurt is hard to understand... .the meaness... .of giving and always thining that its better and she is starting to be a nicer partner... .and then bamm ... its gone... .I think its more than I can absorb and so i just don't ... .

I think that I stay because of the threats of suicide if I want to get away from it... andthen when I am nice and cozy... .it turns... .

I suppose it is like a rabbit getting lured into a snare over and over again... yeh if the rabbit was intelligent they;d realise after the 50th time ... .don't run after that carrot... .

But my feelings and caring were so deep fo her ,,I just cared... .and I got snagged... .so yeh ... .Your right ... .I know that ... she mean and nasty and if I keep going back thats what Ill keep getting... .your right  ... .and master manipulators... .and we the weak and caring and the ones that get hurt ... .they can turn it off,,

We need to be stronger and not let it get done to us...

you know Skip... how hard that it,,and how it hurts ... to be treated like dirt from the very person that we loved,,and we loved them because they were different when they trapped us...

they are like sheep in wolves clothing... .for sure... .

I need help for sure... .but i didn't know it before... .i thought I was normal...

Kathy
Logged

eternaloptimist
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 473


« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2006, 01:35:52 PM »

Skip - What if you invested all of your money and went back and cleaned the refrigerator and hired a new chef and swept the floor and washed all the dishes and still the food was awful - would you keep trying?  Especially if the restaurant was in a good district (great potential) - good concept - would you start to think the karma might be bad?   Smiling (click to insert in post)  sorry - couldn't resist - EO
Logged
JoannaK
DSA Recipient
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Married to long-term 9-year partner (also a non)
Posts: 22837



« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2006, 02:16:15 PM »

From dbg:

Excerpt
What are you suppose to do when your girlfriend is always depressed, crying and cant take the least amount of rejection? She would cry if i read a newspaper on a train while we together. This meant i didnt love her. Is this when we are supposed to run for the hills?

  Dbg, at this point someone more emotionally healthy than the typical hapless non would run for the hills... .  thinking, what in the world?  This is nuts!  Not all men are going to stay when confronted by behavior this extreme.  Most will leave. 

Excerpt
If they cant abuse you, they will con through weakness

... .often conning through weakness is a form of emotional abuse, but a subtle form of emotional abuse. 

Excerpt
and then once they get some strength,  they will find someone else, usually behind your back and quickly switch to him/ her and then paint you black.

  A non who can't find the way to pull him/herself away should be happy if this happens, even though the non will be miserable at the time.

Excerpt
BPD is the problem and they fact that they are pathetic cowards, liars and souless monsters.

  Yes, but not everybody who hooks up with a BPD type and finds him/herself abused and manipulated stays. 
Logged

Skippy
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 649


« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2006, 02:29:38 PM »

eternal optimist.... that sounds like perpetual optimism  8)

kathy45... ."I suppose you  are right skip... .But... ."  I think this is my point.  Your list of "buts" are rationalizations for why you stay.  The real reason you stay is your codependency on ______.  It's not her suicide threats that bring you and your family harm, it's your codependency. 

Someone mentioned here that the prognosis for codependency is generally more optimistic than for alcoholism once you start rehab.  I think that is true. 

In both cases, you have to admit you have a problem, you have to be willing to suffer the pain to break free, and most importantly, stop saying, "I will fix this tomorrow".

Kathy, blaming her actions for your behavior... .is a bit like a blaming a beer bottle for your intoxication.  Yes, you got suckered in, yes you mean well, yes she is ill, yes its horribly unfair, yes she is sometimes great/wonderful, yes you will do anything end the bad acts... .these are all old issues.  The primary issue today is that you are codependent on a dysfunctional abusive relationship that cycles, but has shown no signs of improvement in years.

It will be painful and difficult and will take months to rehabilitate.  But, you can move past this and live a fine life afterward.


Skippy
Logged
Minky
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 617


« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2006, 02:38:36 PM »

Brilliant and though provoking post Skip.

I'm a great "people watcher" - could spend hours listening to folk and watching them interact with others.  Watch and learn.

Why do some folk tell abusive people to take a hike at the first hint of trouble and why do others stay and "try and fix it".  Ummmm - well those that feel good about themselves truly believe that they don't deserve to be treated badly and that the problem is with the person dishing it out and it's theirs and theirs alone.  They walk away despite the interaction and still feel good inside.

I know for the last six months or so with my BP H I was confused as to who I was more angry at - him for being so cruel and abusive or me for being dumb enough to stay and put up with it!  A person would good self esteem would never had stayed around for all that crap.  His first wife got out after 18 months - wise, wise woman!

I truly believe that by staying with a BP then we have our own issues to deal with.  You tend to hit raw nerves with those that deny it and they will defend themselves to the hilt.  This place can become a bashing board for BPs with us Non's making ourselves out to be the innocent "victims" - done it myself on quite a few occasions.  If he was screwed up then that takes the heat off of me - right?

We can quote Stockholme Syndrome, we can quote negative and positive reinforcements etc - but at the end of the day - something inside us makes us feel that we "deserve" the treatment we receive.  When we are treated unfairly and we don't believe we deserve it we react.  

I used to have a boss who when annoyed would come out into the open office and bawl the person concerned out - in front of everyone.  He did it to me twice.  I took him to one side after the second time and told him his behaviour was totally inappropriate and that I wouldn't tolerate him doing it again.  He never did it to me again - my making a stand I was showing him that I didn't deserve it and therefore wouldn't tolerate it.

But we do continue to tolerate all the crap of a mentally disordered partner - because we think that's what we deserve.  If we thought better of ourselves then why did we or do we stay?  Why do people who have their acts together not go into relationships with these people?

That is why personal one on one therapy for the non is so important.  Looking at childhoods, why you are drawn to someone who is ill, why you tolerate the abuse etc.  I think it's so hard to do that work alone - you just fall straight into the next painful relationship and think "why the hell is this happening again to me?"

Being honest with yourself can be so painful.  The thin veneer that holds you together - the fear of it splitting and then you will totally and utterly fall apart.  I just can't admit I have issues - I must find another to point the finger at - pretty much BP behaviour!

But if you find yourself a really good therapist - you don't actually get ripped apart all in one go!  You aren't left a quivering wreck on the floor with the men in white coats waiting to collect you in the next room.  A good therapist will sense the pace you need to go at and maybe push you a bit further out of your comfort zone.

Sometimes you need to dismantle the jigsaw puzzle then put it back together in the right order - no more pushing bits together that you think should go together.  But taking each piece and lovingly place it where it should really go.

Minks

Logged
willowtree007
Guest
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2006, 02:48:10 PM »

The analogy of the fire isn't quite right. If I see fire, I won't stick my hand into it in the first place, because I know it is hot!

What the BPD presents is a warm bubblebath. One sticks their hand into it to test the water and the temperature feels right. So we immerse our whole body.

As anyone who has ever taken a bath knows, the temperature can be increased by small increments until the water is scalding to the skin, yet the brain doesn't register the danger.

I have a very caring, nurturing nature as do most of the women in my extended family (Eastern European background - yet none of are in sick relationships). However, I believe that this nature of mine is like a beacon to a person who needs excessive amounts of caring. I now know that I've been in two Personality Disordered relationships. That I started them, was the luck of the draw. That I stayed in them was a lack of having been taught boundaries, which comes from a childhood family with mental illness.

I can only imagine that my future guideline will be avoiding partners who love me too much before they know me.
Logged
ImOk
Guest
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2006, 04:48:44 PM »

Skip - What if you invested all of your money and went back and cleaned the refrigerator and hired a new chef and swept the floor and washed all the dishes and still the food was awful - would you keep trying?  Especially if the restaurant was in a good district (great potential) - good concept - would you start to think the karma might be bad?   Smiling (click to insert in post)  sorry - couldn't resist - EO

EO, "Awful food"just tastes bad... .it has to be tainted with something toxic to make you sick Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged
ImOk
Guest
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2006, 05:03:53 PM »

Excerpt
The core issue would be more along the lines of:

"Why was I attracted to a person like this in the first place?"

"Why would I continue to tolerate that kind of behavior from a person who was supposed to love me?"

"Why would I... .*fill in the blank*?"

None of those things have to do with BPD.  They have everything to do with us.

   Interesting points. I don't think that most people are attracted to a person because they have BPD.  They really aren't "like this in the first place", that all comes into the picture much later after you're beyond the "attracted" stage and well into the "totally hooked" stage.

     The real question to me is the "Why would I continue to tolerate that kind of behavior from a person who was supposed to love me?" This is where our personal responsibilty in the relationship comes into play and where I think, it's no longer an issue of the person with BPD. This is where WE have to start taking a look at our own pathology and addressing it, taking the focus off the other person's problems and turning our attention to fixing ourselves instead.
Logged
Bob58
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1697


« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2006, 05:33:56 PM »

Excerpt
I don't think that most people are attracted to a person because they have BPD.  They really aren't "like this in the first place", that all comes into the picture much later after you're beyond the "attracted" stage and well into the "totally hooked" stage.

I'm not so sure about that.  I think the majority of nons that were in Chosen relationships come to see that there were sure signs of something wrong well before the really bad behaviors started.

First off, becoming "totally hooked" on someone very quickly isn't normal.  A very high percentage of chosen nons fall in that category.

And when I say "they were like this in the first place" I mean that they exhibited borderline tendencies all along.  They just weren't seen as "BAD" tendencies.

Painting a person stark white is as equally dysfunctional as painting them totally black.

The difference is being painted stark white FEELS better.

I think a great many nons dream of the "soulmate" connection.  Being painted white can rapidly lead a person craving that to believe almost anything.  It can make them believe in it and need it long past the point when a normal person would think "This is nuts.  I'm out of here".

What so many non's fail to grasp is that those things they claim to be the "wonderful" side of their borderline partners, is often just as dysfunctional as what they claim is the "horrible" side.

I doubt that many people without emotional issues would fall for a Borderline's bag of coping mechanisms very long.

All that said, what truly makes a Chosen Non a Chosen Non is what they do when the really obvious bad behaviors start showing up.

We read about 300 posts everyday by folks dealing (and NOT dealing) with that.

So folks, tell me, given that I didn't cause her illnes... .I can't control her illness... .and I sure as hell can't cure her illness... .what's really at the root of the problem?   My psycho partner, or my refusal to say "enough of this" because of my own issues?





Logged
dbg

*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21


« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2006, 06:25:11 PM »

That is very true. It wasnt normal to be painted white or "idolized" by a 28 year old women. I didnt like it initially. It felt very uncomfortable.  But part of me did enjoy being idolized later on.  There were rare, brief, glimpses of her awful BPD player but it came out in a fury the last six months until I ended it and got re-engaged until she ran off with someone else and i have since been painted black.
Logged
JohnnyTable
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 169


« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2006, 06:28:48 PM »

Often, but not always.  I do believe that some nons are less emotionally healthy than other nons.  Also, some with BPD/NPD are very, very high functioning when we meet them and they are more effective in deceiving a prospective non.  

But I do think that your analysis of a BPD/non relationship is very appropriate for a large percentage of these relationships.

I agree with this.  My exBPDgf is a mother, in medical school, and was a triathelete.  From the outside she really looked like she had her life together and maybe she did.  She also treated me very well for the first 4-6 months and pretty well for the 6 months after that before things got bad.

However there were red flags all over the place which I chose to ignore.  I believed too much of the BS and gave too much slack for what she was doing and had done.  I had flags within the first few dates.  I ignored them because I was weak and pulled in the the affection, attention, and sex.  I also was naive and didn't know that such people could exist.
Logged
Felicity
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 258


« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2006, 06:51:26 PM »

Our problem (besides his chaos) was my naivity.  It was pathetic.  I have a tendancy to believe the best of people and it takes a lot for me to finally realize that a person is just an Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post)$$hole.  This after having an emotionally abusive grandmother!  You'd think I'd know better! 

Chaos would do his thing and I'd be left scratching my head thinking "WTH just happened?"  This resulted in phone calls to my girls asking ":)oes your H do this?"  The answer was usually "Hell no!"

And then, of course, he was accusing ME of being mean to HIM so I was trying extra hard to be nice and gentle (walking on eggshells).

So is BPD the only problem?  No.  My naivity and doormat tendancy is also a problem.  But my problems in the hands of a good man would not result in such negative chaos.  He is chaos no matter who he is with!
Logged
Skippy
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 649


« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2006, 06:54:02 PM »

I don't think that most people are attracted to a person because they have BPD.  They really aren't "like this in the first place", that all comes into the picture much later after you're beyond the "attracted" stage and well into the "totally hooked" stage. - Imok

I'm not so sure about that... .and when I say "they were like this in the first place" I mean that they exhibited borderline tendencies all along.  They just weren't seen as "BAD" tendencies.

I think a great many nons dream of the "soulmate" connection.  Being painted white can rapidly lead a person craving that to believe almost anything... .Bob58

Your point is an excellent one, Bob58.

Looking back, in hindsight, you point is right on the money... .100% accurate.   And after swimming in shark infested waters, I think I  would recognize a shark from 50 meters out on a foggy night... .but a normal person might be a little more vulnerable to be taken in... .add mid-life crisis, recent divorcees, some rebounders, social naivety ,  and a host of other normal vulnerabilities and the entry into a BP relationship may as often be "situational" as a matter of chronic emotional issues.

I say this 1) to agree with you , but 2) to suggest beating ourselves up about this and fearing the next relationship is a 1 way ticket to no where, running in place.  In those same 300 emails are a cadre of nons fearful of every quirk in every prospective partner.

I don't know what's normal for falling in love... .it seems to me this is one time when the rules go out the window and stupid human stuff happens... .hard to define "normal"... and I've seen all kinds of crazy things end up in long loving relationships.

I come away from this with one practical idea... .if you've been in one mentally ill relationship, assume that you are "at higher risk" for another. Your insurance agent certainly would agree with this, as would most health care professionals.

That said, you would be best to make a shift into your future "priorities" to focus on people that are clearly A+ solid and stay away from anyone that is a B, C, D.  It's not to say these people are trouble, its more a statement that we nons need to compensate and be in prime healthy environments going forward.  Here we can continue to learn to move away from any issues we have.  Nothing emotionally healthier than spending your time with very emotionally healthy people.

How will you know?  I contend, that if you look, you can tell.  You just may have to give up something else in the tradeoff.

Very thoughtful points, Bob 58.

Skippy

Logged
Bob58
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1697


« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2006, 07:03:49 PM »

Excerpt
I say this 1) to agree with you , but 2) to suggest beating ourselves up about this and fearing the next relationship is a 1 way ticket to no where. In those same 300 emails are a cadre of nons fearful of every quirk in every prospective partner.

I don't know what's normal for falling in love... .it seems to me this is one time when the rules go out the window and stupid human stuff happens... .hard to define "normal"... and I've seen all kinds of crazy things end up in long loving relationships.

I take away from this point with one practical idea... .if you've been in one mentally ill relationship, assume that you are "at higher risk" for another. Your insurance agent certainly would agree with this.

You're 100% right, Skip.

I do NOT mean to suggest that we should spend any time beating ourselves up about this.

I mean that we need to recognize this tendency in ourselves (and preferably get some qualified help with it) so that we can AVOID repeating the same mistakes.

I believe statistics show that about 10% of the general population has a diagnosable PD. 

That means that about 9 out of 10 future prospective partners won't have a diagnosable PD.

I believe that once we recognize and overcome our OWN issues we can be immunized against these types of relationships.

The truth is... .even after my BP relationship, I still found myself attracted to dysfunctional people for a while.  The difference was my "radar" was going off and I forced myself to take steps back and re-evaluate "why?".

I'm now in a very happy, year long, relationship with a normal healthy person and I've never been happier.

I could never have achieved that if I hadn't focused on MY issues.
Logged
ImOk
Guest
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2006, 08:12:18 PM »

Excerpt
Interesting points. I don't think that most people are attracted to a person because they have BPD.  They really aren't "like this in the first place", that all comes into the picture much later after you're beyond the "attracted" stage and well into the "totally hooked" stage.

   Let me clarify the point I was trying to make here... .I don't believe (most) people go deliberately looking for someone OVERTLY exhibiting the extreme behavior of a BPD.

Excerpt
First off, becoming "totally hooked" on someone very quickly isn't normal.  A very high percentage of chosen nons fall in that category.

   I agree with you on this point Bob, but not everyone gets hooked "very quickly". While some people seem to have had more than one experience being involved with really dysfunctional people, this also isn't the case for everyone here. It wasn't for me. My experience with BPD is limited to one man and I intend to keep it that way. Up until a couple of months ago I didn't even know what BPD was, but I had already gotten out of the relationship... .I was just very confused and trying to get my bearings again after getting off the rollercoaster ride when I stumbled in here.

Excerpt
if you've been in one mentally ill relationship, assume that you are "at higher risk" for another. Your insurance agent certainly would agree with this.

   I don't know about this one Skip... .I feel like I was much more "at risk" to get involved in this particular relationship with a mentally ill man due to my vulnerability, naivete, gullibility and complete ignorance about this type of mental illness. Not to mention it was someone I had know for a very long time, not a stranger I had just met. After this experience I personally feel MUCH less likely to fall into this trap again.

Excerpt
I think the majority of nons that were in Chosen relationships come to see that there were sure signs of something wrong well before the really bad behaviors started.

    Hindsight is always 20/20... .you can't see a pattern until one has had time to emerge. Now, when I look back with the advantage of my current perspective I can see the subtle signs appearing, but there was no way I had reason to read it that way at the time.
Logged
Bob58
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1697


« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2006, 08:26:06 PM »

Two things, ImOk... .

My posts are filled with rife generalizations about what I feel are the majority of the Chosen relationships, here, so your personal mileage may vary.

And secondly, I believe we're exploring reasons why things happened here.  Not, who's to blame.

I see a huge difference between those.

No one is saying you should have "seen things coming and if you didn't it's your fault!".

I am saying that, in hindsight, most Nons (now out of the relationship) can see more clearly the dysfunctional things they overlooked when they were enmeshed.

To me, the ultimate goal is to get past the dysfunctional relationship with a Borderline and explore ourselves so that we have a much better chance at a happy future.

I do accept that a high percentage of folks are going to balk at my suggestion that the real problem in their relationships is them.
Logged
ImOk
Guest
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2006, 09:15:31 PM »

Bob,

   In my obviously not-so-clear way I was actually agreeing with you!  Smiling (click to insert in post) Sorry It didn't come off that way.I was trying to expand and elaborate on your points not refute them. And for the record I wholeheartedly believe that:
Excerpt
the ultimate goal is to get past the dysfunctional relationship with a Borderline and explore ourselves so that we have a much better chance at a happy future.

 

   I really wasn't intending to address the issue of "who's to blame" but I can see why it may have sounded that way... .

   
Excerpt
my suggestion that the real problem in their relationships is them.

   Hey,again I agree with you... .that's the ONLY problem we can actually do something about, whether we like it or not!

   Anyway , sorry for the confusion!
Logged
Bob58
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1697


« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2006, 09:23:31 PM »

LOL!  Oh, ok.  Smiling (click to insert in post) I'm sometimes guilty of "scanning" posts before I reply instead of reading and considering them indepth.
Logged
kathy45
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 242


« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2006, 11:42:10 PM »

Skip

As you  know I'm a nurse and the attributes of caring etc were things about myself that I liked... i was the best friend you'd ever have ,,the person you  could always count on... I  wanted the challenging patient, the one no one else could handle,i would manage to win over... .The way I have been has worked for me well in my life... .

and then...

I fell for a woman and i didn't even know i was gay... .it rocked my world... but i was determined to make it work she was so nice and so crazy about me... .she's 11 years younger attractive intelligent... .I set my heart on it... she said of course the minute she saw me she knew i was the one... .she said this even after I told her I was married and only wanted friendship but she perservered,,and was the good and fun friend... .So eventually she had me ... .I slowly began to give in to her demands... .a little here and there... until now... I  am at the point of she will decide if and when I see my children ,,she will decide if and when i see my parents ( never)... .and of course she loves me and would never leave me ... .and will kill herself if i leave her.( I don't really believe that anymore)... .

Anyway... .I loved her and committed myself to the relationship, I can't stop caring no matter what... .I don't love someone just because they love me back... .I just do... .

But now I feel weak and she still wants me thats for sure... .but she calls the shots... .and I can walk  away and live without her, for sure... .but the pain of feeling that this person i gave everything in my life up  for doesn't really give a darn ... .she says she does... .but if she did she wouldn't make me feel like I'm a doggy, on her chain... .I feel destroyed and i can't seem to pull myself up... .

I know I need out but I'm just really hurt over it all... .

I am away from her house and hope to stay away ... but I am finding it really painful and hard to go to work where she is... .

I feel like it s an injustice... i guess thats it... its like I've been had and it makes me darn  mad...

I can be with her but of course the complete sacrifice of everything in life that is dear to me... .

I guess if I knew there would be justice and she would someday be sorry for being so mean... .and not just to me... .to her ex husband, her kids, her mother(although the meaness seems to come from here) , her grandmother... .but she puts on sucha  good act... .I just can't get over it quick like i want to... .I guess I just can't... .

I need to expect the pain and hurt that comes with a broken heart(although i have had broken relationships but nothing hurts like this and i think its because the other party does not appear to have normal responses, its like there is heart to her)...

I guess you  can call it codependence but I think i just want everyone to be nice,,and they aren't////
Logged

Skippy
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 649


« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2006, 11:45:54 PM »

1 )The truth is... .even after my BP relationship, I still found myself attracted to dysfunctional people for a while.  The difference was my "radar" was going off and I forced myself to take steps back and re-evaluate "why?".

2) I believe statistics show that about 10% of the general population has a diagnosable PD.  That means that about 9 out of 10 future prospective partners won't have a diagnosable PD.

Bob58, I think your first point (1) is an uncomfortable, but oft true statement.  I met someone post BP relationship, charming and attractive and, opps, BPD (I learned after some discussion.).  Incredible coincidence?  Like you, I FORCED myself to "be gone".  This one was easy - it was written on her forehead.

This, in part, is my point about higher risk.  But the other part is the dysfunctionality we can't as easily characterize - no matter how well we "prepare" ourselves - the possibility of being blindsided again - maybe in a different and equally unrecognizable way as before is there and I think "higher" for a non.

This point is not about Bob 58, or IMOK, ot even Skippy.  Its a very general statement.  Something like if its been struct by lightening, the likelihood of a repeat is much higher than normal; if it caught on fire once, the likelihood of a repeat is higher than normal; if it was broken into, the likelihood of a repeat is higher than normal;, if it was foreclosed, the likelihood of a repeat is higher than normal... .  You can make changes to try to reduce this increased risk, but unless you completely eradicate the conditions lead to the first occurrence (which requires an incredible level of knowledge or change), the increased risk remains.  Ever notice how the same property can house different, but sequentially failing restaurants?

Your second point Bob 58 is one I've thought about too.  There is another possible way to look at it... .you could say that 1:10 odds exists when you are young, but as you become older (post 35, pre 65), the odds of meeting a dysfunctional person increase significantly because, the dysfunctional tend to cycle back into the single population at a much higher rate than the healthy do. This is not a particularly encouraging thought... .but even if its 2:10 or 4:10, both points are valid... .the risk is higher AND there are plenty of good people out there.

I do accept that a high percentage of folks are going to balk at my suggestion that the real problem in their relationships is them.

It's an incredibly discomforting thought... .to be suffering from BP trauma AND to be culpable.  I remember hearing such statements early in my recovery... .but I agree with you Bob, and I think it is a sign of true recovery when this becomes obvious.

Skippy

Logged
Skippy
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 649


« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2006, 12:39:42 AM »

(1) As you  know I'm a nurse and the attributes of caring etc were things about myself that I liked... i was the best friend you'd ever have ,,the person you  could always count on... I  wanted the challenging patient, the one no one else could handle,i would manage to win over... .The way I have been has worked for me well in my life... .

(2) I guess you  can call it codependence but I think i just want everyone to be nice,,and they aren't////

Kathy... .I know its strong language.  But what you say above is an exactly what the first post in this thread is all about. Number 2 (or some derivation thereof) is the crisis in your life right now.  Number 1 is part of the rationalization for it.

Here is the tough love:

You don't stay in a dysfunctional relationship because you are a good person.  You stay for dark unhealthy reasons.  Being a good person is another point.  Your super imposing these thoughts.

And I do truly believe those wonderful characteristics have been the hallmark of your life - but during this relationship you haven't been "the person you could always count on"  for some of the most important people in your life.

Kathy, you would say the same to me if the situation was reversed. The only difference between you and I is that you are in emotionally in the midst of all of this and I am standing on the outside observing - if our timing were different, you could very well be saying something like this to me about the BP relationship I was in.

I've been there.  You saw the struggle.  I'm now out and recovered.  There are many here that are out and recovered. We all climbed over the same hot coals. There is a common thread in what we say to you.   

You can do it to Kathy,  but first you have to believe that it is YOUR problem to solve, and abandon the thoughts that you are not responsible for the current dilemma, and stop feeling sorry for yourself (you have every right, but its not going to help you).   She will not change... .its going to be up (highs) and down (abuse)... .she has made that point clear... .over and over.

Skippy

Logged
kathy45
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 242


« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2006, 05:55:55 AM »

Thanks for your reply Skip

I do agree with you... .I know I have the problem, thats why I'm the one in counselling , not her... .

I am going to give it my best shot... .i know that most people would not tolerate this...

The attributes that i listed worked for me in my life previously but no one had called me to this point before, So I guess I don't know when to stop... i had the never give up  attitude... which really isn't a bright one... but who would have thought that someone you  love would take you  to  the edge of a cliff and then try to push you  over... .thats basically what has happened... .and if I am going to survive i'm going to have to run the other way... .

I came here hoping to find ways to fix the problem... .but I can't fix her... .so I need to get away from her and fix me and find out what has made me get into this... because I'm not sure I behave normally anymore... .

I agree its stupid to stick it out with an abuser... its taking awhile for that to sink in... .it has sunk in but I am finding it really diificult/ painful to walk away... i know you   know what its like ///
Logged

RTTCB
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 143


« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2006, 07:13:32 AM »

Hi Kathy,

At the moment I am sure you are in shock and disbelief that someone that you love could do these things to you.

I know - I've been there myself.

But one thing that you must come to terms with is that this pattern is indeed part of their illness. I am learning to not take any action "personally" as it is not. People affected with BPD treat everyone in their lives the same way - in fact the closer you are the worse you are treated.

If you have not aleady - please read the article here www.borderlinepersonality.ca/borderdilemma.htm

This is written by a recovering BPD - and it greatly helped me to finally come to the realisation that without admitting to the problem and seeking proper therapy, a person suffering from BPD is not one that you should try to sustain any relationship with.

I note you mentioned that this person works with you - or where you work. This will make it quite difficult for you as really No Contact (NC) is very important. They are manipulative emotional blackmailers - you need to stay out of their clutches.

I really hope that you can move on from this person - unless she gets serious help shes only going to do you or anyone in her midst serious damage. The key to all this for you though is to not let her - easier said than done I know, but just read read read this site - its sure helped me!

Take care RTTCB
Logged
kathy45
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 242


« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2006, 08:01:04 AM »

Thank you RTTCB

I know i shouldn't take i personally,,but I am so emotionally involved I do... I'm trying to distance myself... and i appreciate all the encouraging words I can get... .

and yeh the work thing is hard, I actually got her the job...

Even when things weren't good i still got her the job , because I rationalized it that she was single mother with 3 kids and I was being selfish if I didn't use my influence to help her out... So  now i've got to live with it... I just have to be a little tougher...

I'm trying... .
Logged

Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2020?

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2020 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
40days_in_desert
Ahquei3s
alphabeta
Amethyste
Angie59
ArtistGuy70
AskingWhy
assumezero
At Bay
Avanzando
Baglady
Beneck
bigredneck
Bittlecat
Boll Weevil
calmboom
Cat Familiar
Chosen
Dnmtnbkr
drained1996
Eggshellsbroken
FaintTheGoat
FaithHopeLove
FindingMe2011
Forgiveness
freespirit
GaGrl
ggGreg
Gift to Myself
gotbushels
Harri
hopeandchoices
I Am Redeemed
Imatter33
Jazzy48
jdc
jones54
Jonthan
Katrinalove
Kwamina
l8kgrl
LLgreen
Longterm
lorymac
lovenature
loyalwife
lucidone
Manifest32f
MariannaR
Meridius
Methuen
mgirl
Minttea
Mommydoc
Mutt
narcdaughter2
needPeace
NorseWoman
Notgoneyet
oceanheart
oftentimes
Omega1
once removed
Only Human
otherlife
palynne
PeacefulMom
Pedro
pest947
podsnapG
ProudDad12
pursuingJoy
Radcliff
Raul
Recycle
Resiliant
Rev
Rosheger
Sad4Her
SamwizeGamgee
Sandalwood
SBBayArea
SCM
SerendipityChild
SES
Silverhope
Skip
songbirdtwo
StillStuck
Swimmy55
Teno
townhouse
truthbeknown
turtleengine501
Ventak
vinnie77
Violet00
wavewatcher
wendydarling
WhatJustHappened?
Whichwayisup
whirlpoollife
Wicker Man
WindofChange
worn_out
WTL
zachira
zaqsert

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!