Perception vs. intent, why this is so real? Or is it?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

i seriously doubt that your gf thought it was ok to cheat on you. she may have pretended that she thought it was ok, especially if you caught her at it, because what else is she supposed to do, admit she has a bad character? no, she comes up with some BPD twisted thinking to excuse what she knows is crappy behavior.

Thanks for putting it into the words I couldn't find, b2.  My point, exactly.

Jewls

[Jewls]

i seriously doubt that your gf thought it was ok to cheat on you. she may have pretended that she thought it was ok, especially if you caught her at it, because what else is she supposed to do, admit she has a bad character? no, she comes up with some BPD twisted thinking to excuse what she knows is crappy behavior.

Thanks for putting it into the words I couldn't find, b2.  My point, exactly.

Jewls

[PDQuick]

In order to admit that she has a bad character, she would have to think it was wrong. I talked to her ex husband, and the similarities were amazing. The only difference between me and him was that he walked in on her cheating once, and he was discharged from the air force because an officers wife walked in on my ex, and the officers husband. She has cheated probably 25 times. I never caught her red handed, but know of many. She even admitted to most of them after we split, when I found out she was getting married. Then, she wanted to cheat on her husband after 6 days of being married with me. Of course, I didnt do it, but really, with that kind of track record, do you really think she thinks it is wrong? I dont. I think she sees it as ok, as long as she is not caught. She recognizes that we think it is wrong, that is why she hides it. But for her to do it this much, she has to view it as ok.

[NewLifeforHGG]

I disagree a bit PD.

I think they do it is wrong which is why they hide it. They KNOW it is wrong because they know it isn't accepted in society. They wouldn't bother to lie if they didn't know it. I have seen Cap'n disparage someone else for doing the exact same thing he has done or does. Of course he has a million excuses why it was alright for HIM to do it but he inherently knows the action is wrong.

I have seen brief, very brief, moments when he will say-I know it is wrong but I don't know why I do it.

He will usually blame the victim by saying that they made him do the wrong thing.

Society has very clear rules and mores. Everyone knows lying, cheating and stealing are bad. But with BPD they justify the unacceptable behavior instead of taking responsibility. It doesn't mean they don't know it was wrong it just means they don't see it as their fault.

[PDQuick]

Ok, I can accept that they know it is wrong. With saying that, I have to conclude that they think they are above the law, and laws dont pertain to them.

[bewildered2]

HGG makes an excellent point.

Remember, if you haven't been caught at something then you make up a lie to cover yourself in case something comes out later that could make you look bad.

If you have been caught then you go to plan B, which is to come up with some crappy excuse that makes sense to you (the BPD) using the classic BPD tool, twisted thinking. So they believe it because because to face the facts and take some personal responsibility ain't in the BPD's armory.

We're the idiots for buying their lies when our inner voices tell us they're lies, and not truths.

And if we Nons had a higher opinion of ourselves we'd walk out on them after they've had their proverbial three strikes, but we don't, and that's our pathology.    

So we facilitate a BPD's warped reality and even help make it real for them because we allow ourselves to be convinced that their "reality" is reality , when it isn't.

B2    

 

[Jewls]

I have seen brief, very brief, moments when he will say-I know it is wrong but I don't know why I do it.

He will usually blame the victim by saying that they made him do the wrong thing.

Society has very clear rules and mores. Everyone knows lying, cheating and stealing are bad. But with BPD they justify the unacceptable behavior instead of taking responsibility. It doesn't mean they don't know it was wrong it just means they don't see it as their fault.

Same here, perfect.

Ok, I can accept that they know it is wrong. With saying that, I have to conclude that they think they are above the law, and laws dont pertain to them.

Yep, you hit the nail on the head.

Stink weed will go through great lengths to try to prove his lie is true.  It's unbelievable the energy he will put into it.  He has stolen from his family (me/kids), lied and cheated, and to this day, won't admit it or take one ounce of responsibility for his actions. 

We're the idiots for buying their lies when our inner voices tell us they're lies, and not truths.

Yes, I look back and just shake my head.

Jewls

[aames]

Ok, I can accept that they know it is wrong. With saying that, I have to conclude that they think they are above the law, and laws dont pertain to them.

This is closer again to the NPD dynamic of entittlement.

There are one set of rules for everyone else, and an entirely different set of rules for the Narcissist.

NPD's are obsessed with fantasies of ideal love, power, prestige and feel that they are above ordinary rules of conduct (fidelity, truth telling etc.) The BPD might commit similar behaviors, but are not so much wrapped up in the entittlement factor as they exhibit odd, illogical arguments and scattered thought processes to justify their actions.

Example:

My former uNPDbf felt that cheating was wrong; he looked down on anyone who slept around outside their primary relationships - and he was especially disgusted with sexual scandals as they occured with politicians, because he felt this was an unforgivable weakness in people who otherwise weilded great deal power - which he admired greatly.   "I cannot condone cheating at any time" he would say...and often cite examples of various people / celebrities he was disgusted with because of their sexual infidelities.

Simultaneously - this very same man felt completely entittled (also compelled) to sleep with anyone he wanted to - at any time, regardless of whether or not he was in a supposed 'exclusive' relationship.  When confronted about his infidelities, his first response was denial, quickly followed by a defiant "I don't answer to anyone but God - that is the only person I fear".   - again I highly doubt that, since I think he's still pissed at God for being smarter than he is... but that's besides the point...But clearly the "standards of conduct" he applied to eveyone else were simply not applicable to him.

A person with BPD may have such an intense fear of abandonment that they act out sexually - in effect pre-empting being cheated on / abandoned by cheating (or leaving) first (and often).  And then blaming the primary partner for their own acting out. (twisted thinking)

One of the more common projections are cases where a BP woman has filed charges of domestic violence against her partner to divert attention from / cover up her own sexual transgressions.

[Jewls]

My former uNPDbf felt that cheating was wrong; he looked down on anyone who slept around outside their primary relationships - and he was especially disgusted with sexual scandals as they occured with politicians, because he felt this was an unforgivable weakness in people who otherwise weilded great deal power - which he admired greatly.   "I cannot condone cheating at any time" he would say...and often cite examples of various people / celebrities he was disgusted with because of their sexual infidelities.

Simultaneously - this very same man felt completely entittled (also compelled) to sleep with anyone he wanted to - at any time, regardless of whether or not he was in a supposed 'exclusive' relationship.  When confronted about his infidelities, his first response was denial, quickly followed by a defiant "I don't answer to anyone but God - that is the only person I fear".   - again I highly doubt that, since I think he's still pissed at God for being smarter than he is... but that's besides the point...But clearly the "standards of conduct" he applied to eveyone else were simply not applicable to him.

A person with BPD may have such an intense fear of abandonment that they act out sexually - in effect pre-empting being cheated on / abandoned by cheating (or leaving) first (and often).  And then blaming the primary partner for their own acting out. (twisted thinking)

This describes stink weed and his line of thinking.  He is a definite BPD/NPD combination which makes it practically impossible to get him to take responsibility for ANYTHING, especially the acts of cheating, visiting strip clubs, and spending our life savings on another woman - anything socially "unacceptable."  He justified all of it without actually admitting to it.  ("I only did what I thought was right for my family."

PD, does your ex exhibit any narcissistic behavior?

Another point made by, I believe b2, about the BPDs trying on different skins really struck a note with me.  It explains why stink weed adapted certain behaviors/beliefs of whomever he was "hanging with" at any given time.  It would irritate me.  His current gf is the type of woman that he abhorred the entire time I was with him (22 years).  Now, he has taken on her opinions, manner of speaking, way of dress, etc.  The transformation was bizarre, but now I get it.

Jewls

[spamlady]

I think the NPD makes them feel "entitled" to ignore the rules.

The BPD causes them to lie, and--if caught--to shift the blame onto us, ie, "I wouldn't have been unfaithful if you had been giving me what I needed."

Combined, it's a deadly recipe for infidelity.

spam

[NewLifeforHGG]

I think the twisted thinking is the hardest thing to grasp before you understand what is going on.

Cap'n would twist the life out of a situation. Deep down I have inklings that he was full of it but I couldn't keep up. Sometimes I would believe what he said.

I watch the way he parks illegally and then blames the parking police when he gets a ticket or he will eat food in this cafe where we go to where you pay on your way out and he often never pays. This is more of his NPD side. He feels like the rules are for the little people.

At the same time if I confront him he says that he has paid plenty of times and that the cafe owes him a few free meals.

It is so bizarre.

Jewels-the different skins fit Cap'n to a T. He will make a new friend, put them on a pedestal and then dress like them or start adopting their style of speech and outlook. Very strange.

[Jewls]

HGG, isn't it?  And frustrating, as well.  You never know who you're talking to!

[NewLifeforHGG]

I know. I keep walking through the door to some man who has changed his world views yet another time. :

I do not respect him at all.