Are they Happy During the Honeymoon Period - ? And Y cant they maintain that

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hey Gang

Just two questions :  My uBPDexgf seemed happy and excited when we met we had the best 2/3 Months ever - She seemed to be really enjoying our connection and time with eachother - Very Loving very quickly and that went for the both of us - Non(me) and UBPDexgf - - I really enjoyed it -

So question number 1 ) - Illusion or Truthfully Happy ?

Also very importantly -  I / We believe that the" Honey Moon" period to be our best times with our BPD So's - Also for them - I feel that those times were the most Intimate (Not just sexually but more emotionally - My case anyway ) - Why did they NOT act up straight away then ? why ONLY after a period of time -  Its a disorder of Intamacy -  So how did they bottle it up ? and why if they want to be loved and NOT abandoned ( Which they crave ) WHY cant they keep behaving the same way ?

I know the answer ( I think ) but would like to see what you guys think - What I am saying is - if they can keep their game face on - 1 Month 3 Months 6 months 1 Year 5 Years  or longer - ( With Intamacy )  What is the trigger for the " I hate you , dont leave me" Dynamic -

Peace - Long Distance

[Long Distance]

Hey Gang

Just two questions :  My uBPDexgf seemed happy and excited when we met we had the best 2/3 Months ever - She seemed to be really enjoying our connection and time with eachother - Very Loving very quickly and that went for the both of us - Non(me) and UBPDexgf - - I really enjoyed it -

So question number 1 ) - Illusion or Truthfully Happy ?

Also very importantly -  I / We believe that the" Honey Moon" period to be our best times with our BPD So's - Also for them - I feel that those times were the most Intimate (Not just sexually but more emotionally - My case anyway ) - Why did they NOT act up straight away then ? why ONLY after a period of time -  Its a disorder of Intamacy -  So how did they bottle it up ? and why if they want to be loved and NOT abandoned ( Which they crave ) WHY cant they keep behaving the same way ?

I know the answer ( I think ) but would like to see what you guys think - What I am saying is - if they can keep their game face on - 1 Month 3 Months 6 months 1 Year 5 Years  or longer - ( With Intamacy )  What is the trigger for the " I hate you , dont leave me" Dynamic -

Peace - Long Distance

[schwing]

So question number 1 ) - Illusion or Truthfully Happy ?

Depends what you mean by "truthfully."  They are not faking it, if that's what you're asking.  But they can not sustain it for the same reason why someone cannot maintain a "perfect" relationship track record.  As soon as the fantasy in her head starts fading, and she sees you doing something that contradicts that fantasy (ie, you make an honest mistake, or you step on one of those eggshells, or she just simple gets in a bad mood) then all of a sudden you were "never" good enough, or "always" doing something wrong.  Don't forget about the black & white thinking.

Also very importantly -  I / We believe that the" Honey Moon" period to be our best times with our BPD So's - Also for them - I feel that those times were the most Intimate (Not just sexually but more emotionally - My case anyway ) - Why did they NOT act up straight away then ?

It's part of the initial "high" of the honeymoon phase.  I forget the technical (ie, physiological) specifics but more dopamine in the blood or something.  That initial "in love" feeling helps them sustain a relatively consistent period of positive splitting.  Once that high goes away... .that once that feeling goes away, then the old behaviors start to come back.

So how did they bottle it up ? and why if they want to be loved and NOT abandoned ( Which they crave ) WHY cant they keep behaving the same way ?

How do they bottle it up?  That's all they ever do.  Ever since the "core abandonment trauma" (I think that's what A.J. calls it) they are entirely driven by avoiding that pain.  So they are the EXPERTS of avoiding/bottling up their problems. 

Their desire to be loved is in direct conflict with their fear of abandonment.  Because to be loved, implies some loving, implies some vulnerability.  But if they are vulnerable, that implies the possibility that they can be abandoned.  An ugly catch-22.  Thus they have to run away when it gets too real.

I suppose they can keep behaving the same way (ie, maintaining the honeymoon phase) by finding new people to be in that phase with;  that's why many of them have serial relationships one after another.  I think it is physiologically impossible to maintain that "in love" high without some serious mind altering drugs that haven't been invented yet.  Or else I'm sure there are some major side-effects for artificially sustained those high dopamine levels or whatever needs to happen.

if they can keep their game face on - 1 Month 3 Months 6 months 1 Year 5 Years  or longer - ( With Intamacy )  What is the trigger for the " I hate you , dont leave me" Dynamic -

I think the ultimate "trigger" is that human emotions are not permanent.  And reality never measures up to fantasy.

Best wishes, Schwing

[JoannaK]

This is the way I see it:

At the core of someone unrecovered with BPD is pain, emptiness, despair, angst.  But they meet a new person and they really believe that this person can "fix" them... .  can make up the pain, emptiness, despair, and angst.  Initially, the person can do no wrong as they again "feel" happy and "filled".  This is the person who is going to fix their inner misery and despair!  (Of course, no one can fix the BPD person's inner misery and despair... except the BPD person him or herself.) 

But the adrenaline rush of those first few weeks and months starts to taper off a bit, as it does in any new relationship.  And again the BPD person starts to feel "empty" and starts blaming the new s.o... .  this new person was supposed to keep the BPD's demons at bay, and it isn't working!  Again, the BPD person feels as though he/she has been let down by this "perfect" person who was supposed to fix him or her.

So, yes, they are truthfully happy when they are in the honeymoon period.  Remember that they are imbuing you with the feeling of being their "savior", so that is why they are so intense, so emotionally close.  But it's not normal.  In fact, the very first sign that you might be dating someone with BPD is that "instant intimacy/too good to be true" feeling.  It's not normal to feel so close to someone that you don't even know... not normal for the BPD, not normal for the non.  It's that drinking in adoration/desperation that the non mistakes for something more real.  They see the non as a God/goddess, but nobody is a real god/goddess, so when the hormones and neurotransmitters start to wear down, everything comes crashing down.   

They want to be loved, but they aren't capable of a real mature love... it's one-sided, much as a child's love is one-sided.  So one or both of two things happen:  They can't face real, up-and-down, back-and-forth give-and-take love, so they run away, or the non can't relieve their inner despair so they push him away.  And there are two ways of dealing with abandonment:  You either cling mercilessly or you abandon first before you are abandoned.  All of these kinds of emotions ebb and flow in an unrecovered BPD as a kind of cesspool of dysfunction. 

[Long Distance]

Schwing / JoannaK.   Thank you both so much for your posts ... .It explaines a lot to me ... .I agree that they do love us at the very begining ... .Its just not sustainable ... It seems to me to be when they start coming of the high and start to realize that We (the non ) are not the one to fix them ... .and then the twisted BPD ... .Kicks in to Gear ... .Its such a shame ... .Because when they are cool and happy ... .It is such a wonderful time for both parties ... .Ooohhh Well ... .Live and learn eh ? Thanks u 2 ... appreciate your time and the responses ... .Anyone else with their 2cents  ? ... .Peace Long Distance

[foiles]

It seems like when a 'normal' person's love 'high' starts to fade, it transforms into a more mature love.  A feeling of 'safety' develops with a person you have come to trust, even though they aren't 'perfect' and don't fulfill every need you may have, and make mistakes or, well, just feels like watching football instead of gazing into their eyes.  You, as a normal person, can handle life without someone that constantly adores you and gives you constant attention.

In fact, as the love 'high' transforms, you not only don't need it at that point, you want to spend time with friends or other hobbies.  It rejuvenates the relationship to have some time apart.  To be able to relax in the relationship.  You see the relationship as a learning experience you are sharing together.  You can work through differences.  You know it's normal. 

But the BPD can't stand the thought of not having constant idealization.  And, of course, life is filled with ups and downs, and just 'being' instead of constant intensity.  Instead of being 'normal' to the BPD, you are 'withdrawing' your love from them - just to be normal!  So the relaxation of a normal love relationship is to them a threat.  And so all of the fears are triggered and crazy things pop in their minds.  The fears build and anything they can grab onto to be afraid of, any loss of control over you, or even a stranger, can take you away.  My exBPDbf would insist that it is normal to be afraid of a stranger on the street taking me away from him.  He couldn't understand it when I would counter that if you have a good relationship to begin with, other people aren't threats.  No matter how much love you give them, no matter how much control over your life and emotions and thoughts and behavior you let them have, it will never be enough.  Because you can never control every thought, emotion and behavior of another person.  Ultimately they can sense this.  It scares the heck out of them. They are losing you! 

The honeymoon phase of any love relationship isn't a normal state of life.  I may love and cherish my love partner for the rest of my life.  There is no way the brain chemicals released initially (and documented scientifically) can be sustained forever.  It has to transform into a different kind of love. Maybe those same chemicals can come periodically, especially if you work at it, but to expect that forever is to set yourself up for disappointment and fear.  A BPD is setting up a self-fulfilling prophesy of failure in the relationship. 

[optimistic]

Wow, JoannaK, Schwing & Foiles,

These are GREAT posts! Better than the descriptions I have read in all the books! You have nailed it... .

For us nons, the idealization is overwhelming, and we NEED to put on the brakes after awhile.  I mean, what normal person can stand being told constantly how perfect they are when they know they're just regular people? It really puts the pressure on, trying to maintain one's "perfection". Foiles is right, love needs to mature into something more stable and comfortable.

And Joanna's right--that perfection pedestal thing should have been the red flag that said "Get out of Dodge--NOW!"

Optimistic

[jd+jd]

This thread is a few days old, but I just found it.

I wish every NON could read this.  It so perfectly explains the real physiological sequence of events that occurs when we fall in love.

Before I knew anything about BPD, I came across an article about "Infatuation vs Love".   It explained how the various chemicals are released in the brain during the "euphoria" stage, and how as these chemicals subside, the relationship will either naturally evolve or it will end.   It explained that some people are "infatuation junkies" who are compelled to seek out that high over and over again often jumping from one relationship to another.

The difference between a NON and a BP, I believe, is that a NON has the warm loving feelings needed to establish a real relationship as the honeymoon phase passes, while someone with BPD, when that high subsides, thinks something is wrong, their crazy thinking kicks in, they assume the NON is going to leave, they split us, and they bail.

My EX did not seek out other relationships, but returned to me again and again.  He was astute enough to comment that I was like a drug to him and he couldn't stay away.  When he would refer to our "relationship", I was astute enough to tell him we never had a relationship -- we had 20 honeymoons.

JD

     

[mtn]

Bingo!  I was just looking around for stages of relationships... .(and depending on the web page you hit, there are 4 to 12 stages, sheesh).

This is interesting stuff.  Honeymoon phase... .actually, who isnt happy in that phase?  IF you're not, it aint a honeymoon!  Its something weirder.

Yeah, after the honeymoon, the relationship gets into finding out about the other person - the individuals in the relationship emerge.  Supposedly, this starts after anywhere from 2 - 6 months and can last indefinitely, but typically about 1 to 2 years.  So, couple this up with a BPD who lacks a sense of self... .its surprising that a relationship with a BPD lasts beyond that timeframe.  Coincidently, have you noticed that lots of red flags emerge during this post honeymoon stage?

[JoannaK]

I'm going to make a Workshop out of this post... .    RELATIONSHIPS AND/OR BPD BEHAVIORS:  The infatuation/pedestal/honeymoon stage of a relationship

[paperlung]

I'm bumping this thread because I found it very reassuring. Hopefully you do as well.

My ex longed for another honeymoon with me. After she devalued and cheated on me, she missed me/wanted me back afterwards because of what we used to have together. She's found somebody new to idealize and have a honeymoon with now, but I know it's not everlasting.

It seems like when a 'normal' person's love 'high' starts to fade, it transforms into a more mature love.  A feeling of 'safety' develops with a person you have come to trust, even though they aren't 'perfect' and don't fulfill every need you may have, and make mistakes or, well, just feels like watching football instead of gazing into their eyes.  You, as a normal person, can handle life without someone that constantly adores you and gives you constant attention.

In fact, as the love 'high' transforms, you not only don't need it at that point, you want to spend time with friends or other hobbies.  It rejuvenates the relationship to have some time apart.  To be able to relax in the relationship.  You see the relationship as a learning experience you are sharing together.  You can work through differences.  You know it's normal.  

But the BPD can't stand the thought of not having constant idealization.  And, of course, life is filled with ups and downs, and just 'being' instead of constant intensity.  Instead of being 'normal' to the BPD, you are 'withdrawing' your love from them - just to be normal!  So the relaxation of a normal love relationship is to them a threat.  And so all of the fears are triggered and crazy things pop in their minds.  The fears build and anything they can grab onto to be afraid of, any loss of control over you, or even a stranger, can take you away.  My exBPDbf would insist that it is normal to be afraid of a stranger on the street taking me away from him.  He couldn't understand it when I would counter that if you have a good relationship to begin with, other people aren't threats.  No matter how much love you give them, no matter how much control over your life and emotions and thoughts and behavior you let them have, it will never be enough.  Because you can never control every thought, emotion and behavior of another person.  Ultimately they can sense this.  It scares the heck out of them. They are losing you!  

The honeymoon phase of any love relationship isn't a normal state of life.  I may love and cherish my love partner for the rest of my life.  There is no way the brain chemicals released initially (and documented scientifically) can be sustained forever.  It has to transform into a different kind of love. Maybe those same chemicals can come periodically, especially if you work at it, but to expect that forever is to set yourself up for disappointment and fear.  A BPD is setting up a self-fulfilling prophesy of failure in the relationship.  

I can totally, totally relate to this post, wow. My relationship with my pwBPD. I could never get time to myself, and if I did, she would give me the guilt trip. "You don't care about me/love me." So frustrating. God forbid I ignore her for awhile or do something with out her.

[Clearmind]

Seeing this got bumped up.

Why we struggled: US: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle