How did your relationship evolve?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I certainly did my fair share of enabling. Even the more basic things like actually buying alcohol for him - so that I could SET HIS BOUNDARY of how much he drank and me trying to control how much he drank - but still drinking all the same instead of letting him deal with his own addictions

I enabled in the same way Seeking Balance did, with his family situation. I took over the role as mediator to try to fix their relationship instead of letting him sort out his own dysfunction, I joined in!

Basically now, looking back I attempted to fix all sorts of errors for him. Work problems, money problems, friend problems... .so many things

LOL - I make the martini's too, then got mad when ex drank too much.  My first trip to AlAnon woke my butt up to how much of an overall enabler I was & not just with the drinking.

Don't you find it freeing to just be able to laugh at ourselves in this?

It doesn't take away the grief, but it is kinda freeing to see our part in the play.

[seeking balance]

I certainly did my fair share of enabling. Even the more basic things like actually buying alcohol for him - so that I could SET HIS BOUNDARY of how much he drank and me trying to control how much he drank - but still drinking all the same instead of letting him deal with his own addictions

I enabled in the same way Seeking Balance did, with his family situation. I took over the role as mediator to try to fix their relationship instead of letting him sort out his own dysfunction, I joined in!

Basically now, looking back I attempted to fix all sorts of errors for him. Work problems, money problems, friend problems... .so many things

LOL - I make the martini's too, then got mad when ex drank too much.  My first trip to AlAnon woke my butt up to how much of an overall enabler I was & not just with the drinking.

Don't you find it freeing to just be able to laugh at ourselves in this?

It doesn't take away the grief, but it is kinda freeing to see our part in the play.

[sarah1234]

It is funny in a way, but as a parent I had a shock. I cannot fix or control my children. I think I was under the illusion that that is what parenting is about. I was parenting my ex, and parenting my actual children.

Now I wouldn't say control in a negative way (although it is a negative word entirely), I mean more that I can't get them to turn out the way I want them to. I can't fix their friendships when they go wrong. I can't fix their moods. I can't fix their fears. I can't get them to see things from my point of view. I can offer some of those things, and I can offer solutions, but I can't DO any of them.

I really had to take a step back from my big, fat enabling remote control. Hell, I even tried to control my mother and sister, with the belief I was helping them out. I enabled my mother to do pretty much nothing at all for a few good years, until I took a step back and she had to sort herself out. I gather I was pretty patronising ;p

At the root of it doesn't come that I want praise. I want the best for people. I want to help. I don't ever want thanks for it, I just want everyone to have a happy life, get along and it all be fine. I love people and want to show them that I do, by helping them. I am a natural helper, but I have to know where to draw that massive line and let them work things out for themselves.

[Awesome Jim]

I recently read somewhere where someone suggested that we mistakenly follow our "gut" and ignore our logic and sensibilities.  I believe this is a gross simplification and I think is actually a bit backwards.  I believe our "gut" is really innate human instinct (something which has been brushed aside by blank slate psychology theorists for decades).  When we are first with a person with BPD we know there is something amiss but they are very good at spinning their madness to sound logical.  So our conscious brains are somewhat buying into their strange logic because we have likely never met anyone before who is this way and then we start to blame ourselves for not understanding or miscommunicating or excuse away their behaviours as "they didn't really mean that" or "they just said it wrong" or "they are just angry or bitter with their ex" (or whomever).  But it is our unconscious human instinct (our "gut" which triggers these "red flags" that we feel or sense in the back of our heads.  It is usually when we are alone later on or perhaps dreaming (where we are sorting out subconscious info) that we start to process that stuff we were processing in the back of our heads and start to realize there is something really strange going on.  Thus I think it is actually our "gut" or instincts that we ignore because we don't believe in the validity of them (again I blame the blank slate theorists who don't believe humans are animals and have built-in instinct) and yet we believe our "rational" consious brains which are actually trying very hard to explain away their thoughts and behaviours.

I think it is this process that perpetuates the dysfunction.  We try to rationalize how someone could be so messed up and not see the incredibly obvious (to us anyways) error in their thinking/behaviour/anger.  I know for me I still have trouble understanding how someone cannot take at least some responsibility for their actions and how they abuse others and yet can't see how this actually causes themselves the very turmoil and dysfunciton that they claim to be victims of.

They victimize themselves and sabotage their own happiness yet they truly and fully believe it is everyone else who is the cause.  This is complete insanity to me and perhaps why I have tried so hard to understand, fix, even perhaps affect some kind of positive change on this person (even though I know how hopeless that truly is).

[Auspicious]

i guess even though i kicked and screamed so to speak at her behaviour and how she treated me, hanging around still to her said ' well yeh joop kicks and screams but he is still here so i guess i can do it again'

Basically, yes.

We can thunder that "you can't talk to me that way!", but if we just stand there and listen to it, then it's perfectly clear that they can talk to us that way. Because they are.

[OTH]

I recently read somewhere where someone suggested that we mistakenly follow our "gut" and ignore our logic and sensibilities.  I believe this is a gross simplification and I think is actually a bit backwards.  I believe our "gut" is really innate human instinct (something which has been brushed aside by blank slate psychology theorists for decades).  When we are first with a person with BPD we know there is something amiss but they are very good at spinning their madness to sound logical.  So our conscious brains are somewhat buying into their strange logic because we have likely never met anyone before who is this way and then we start to blame ourselves for not understanding or miscommunicating or excuse away their behaviours as "they didn't really mean that" or "they just said it wrong" or "they are just angry or bitter with their ex" (or whomever).  But it is our unconscious human instinct (our "gut" which triggers these "red flags" that we feel or sense in the back of our heads.  It is usually when we are alone later on or perhaps dreaming (where we are sorting out subconscious info) that we start to process that stuff we were processing in the back of our heads and start to realize there is something really strange going on.  Thus I think it is actually our "gut" or instincts that we ignore because we don't believe in the validity of them (again I blame the blank slate theorists who don't believe humans are animals and have built-in instinct) and yet we believe our "rational" consious brains which are actually trying very hard to explain away their thoughts and behaviours.

I think it is this process that perpetuates the dysfunction.  We try to rationalize how someone could be so messed up and not see the incredibly obvious (to us anyways) error in their thinking/behaviour/anger.  I know for me I still have trouble understanding how someone cannot take at least some responsibility for their actions and how they abuse others and yet can't see how this actually causes themselves the very turmoil and dysfunciton that they claim to be victims of.

They victimize themselves and sabotage their own happiness yet they truly and fully believe it is everyone else who is the cause.  This is complete insanity to me and perhaps why I have tried so hard to understand, fix, even perhaps affect some kind of positive change on this person (even though I know how hopeless that truly is).

I agree 

[DragonHeart]

This is an awesome thread. I've saved that to my hard drive, and will re-read it over and over again each time I'm in doubt.

Thanks very much for that 

[SOOOdone]

Man... .

This thread made me really sad.

I posted on here Dec 2008 and two days later, after four months of NC, I was back in the ring for more rounds until this July. I was acting on impulse.

And hanging on to the idea that this man loved me to pieces but was mentally ill didn't make me stay out of obligation or guilt. It felt like that this was the ONLY KIND OF PERSON that I could ever be attached to. That "normal" people wouldn't 'do it' for me or would find me too eccentric or flawed in some way. I don't think I was aware of that at the time. I masqueraded with false bravado thinking "I can handle it"... .but I can't handle it.

When I hear of women staying with men that cheat and they seem to turn the other cheek, I am flabbergasted. I do not know how they do it without being emotionally tortured. Or open marriages for that matter. When I was told to detach emotionally from the relationship while IN the relationship, I had no idea how on earth anyone could do that and still be in a relationship. When I started to feel detached this time in the relationship, I hated that feeling although it was healthy for me. When I no longer care about what a person does and who with, I have equated that with loss of love. This is my blind spot. I am aware people can detach WITH love. I am not one of those people. I can detach, but the feeling I have then is not of love, merely acceptance. Maybe that IS love in a form I don't particularly enjoy or comprehend yet.

I finally felt that the most LOVING thing I can do is to walk away. I felt that by staying, detached or not, only kept both of us from feeling the pain of self-reliance and growing beyond old wounds. I hope, as the therapist said, that he finds his way back into therapy soon. But I can no longer stand there WAITING. The whole relationship was about WAITING. He would be late and I would be WAITING. He'd make promises that kept me WAITING. For what was I waiting? My Christmas wish when asked by my father when I was 8 years old was "that mom and dad would stop fighting." They never did.

So I have to stop that cycle. I have to do what my father and/or mother couldn't do. I have to set my own personal boundaries and respect them. I have to be self protective. I have to talk to my feelings and tell them "yes, it's heart-wrenching, it's painful, it's not fair, but you owe it to yourself to be treat YOURSELF well and that means keeping yourself away from people that do not have your best interest at heart. They may not mean it, they may have problems like you once did, but it is their responsibility to do something about it, NOT YOURS. You can love them AND walk away. You can think about them. Hell, you can even OBSESS about them... .but do yourself a favor and do things that are in your best interest. That's YOUR responsibility." That's my self-talk these days.

That's what made me feel sad today... .how unlovable I must have been feeling on such an unconscious level to ignore what was in my best interest. Not too different from the BPD, is it?

Peace

SooDone

[Undertowed]

So I have to stop that cycle. I have to do what my father and/or mother couldn't do. I have to set my own personal boundaries and respect them. I have to be self protective. I have to talk to my feelings and tell them "yes, it's heart-wrenching, it's painful, it's not fair, but you owe it to yourself to be treat YOURSELF well and that means keeping yourself away from people that do not have your best interest at heart. They may not mean it, they may have problems like you once did, but it is their responsibility to do something about it, NOT YOURS. You can love them AND walk away. You can think about them. Hell, you can even OBSESS about them... .but do yourself a favor and do things that are in your best interest. That's YOUR responsibility." That's my self-talk these days.

That's what made me feel sad today... .how unlovable I must have been feeling on such an unconscious level to ignore what was in my best interest. Not too different from the BPD, is it?

Peace

SooDone

Priceless.

[Awesome Jim]

This thread made me really sad.

I posted on here Dec 2008 and two days later, after four months of NC, I was back in the ring for more rounds until this July. I was acting on impulse.

SooDone - I have done the same thing to myself and felt pretty much exactly the same as yourself and I think still do.  I have been back with my ex off and on for years (originally dated in 2007/2008, broke up in 2008 and she then started seeing someone else, and then tried again in 2009 after that inevitably ended and since then things have just slowly faded into just a "friendship" but clearly more).  We still spend a lot of time together although we are not intimate anymore - it's like I'm a part time husband on weekends for her, her son, her dog, her family.  It's very strange really but it is what it is.  I even swore this February that I was getting out of it altogether after she took me completely for granted after lending her thousands of dollars last year for her child custody suit (she has paid it all back so no problem there) and letting her sister sleep at my place once or twice a week last year while she was doing her masters degree in my town.  I only started spending time with her again when I lost my driver's licence for a month in May due to my speeding from last year (I was living a reckless, stressful life last summer between the insane stress of my job and the fact I was dating a new girl as an attempt to once again break away from my ex's madness but I was soo confused because I was still in love with her - I felt like a clock that was wound way too tight last year).  I asked her if I could stay her her place in late May for a night and have her drive me to a conference near her house since I couldn't drive at the time (it was at the end of my punishment period and I got my licence back while at the conference).  But things started up again like they never stopped - she even came to my place on her way to a conference so I could watch her dog for her before she came back to get me for my conference.

I have felt exactly the same way though - that I am the only one who can handle a BPD person like herself.  I often convince myself that only I understand her because I understand BPD and I also truly see that she really is a pathetic person who is very needy and childlike.  It's sad because I think she thinks of me as one of her sons (she has a 7 year old son whom I think the world of) when in actual fact I think it is really me who ends up taking care of her.  I mean she always makes convenient excuses for me to come out like she needs help with her backyard or her garage or taking her son go karting or helping her parents with something.  Unfortunately I take the bait and by my own admission often do the same thing - like last week I was planning on staying home on the weekend for the first time in months and Sunday came and I caved.  I called her and asked her if there was anything she needed me for.  I got from her son later that she thought I was bored so I figure she often has me over because she feels bad that I'm alone - however I know her and I know she really misses me.  She often calls and tells me how much her dog misses me or how much her son misses me but never says she misses me.  The closest she's gotten recently to admitting her affections to me is "I really do enjoy your company as does (her son)".  It's this silly little game we are caught up in (again).  She will e-mail me late in the week in order to spark up some communication which will usually turn into an invite or she will expect me to invite myself out to her place or something I think.  Yesterday she did this so we had some e-mail exchange over the course of the day and then she finally writes me late in the day how I was "NOT at my desk" when she called so I called her.  It was tough because I want to go see her this weekend but I can't do this anymore - I tried last weekend though and I broke down.

Yesterday she asks about my week and then proceeds to tell me about hers and includes some story about how her friend invited her to her house for dinner to meet her new bf (the one she cheated on her husband with which is incredibly hypocritical because my ex was cheated on by her husband and often goes on about how horrible that is and how men are all the same etc. yet here she is supporting her friend who's done the same thing).  So then she complains to me about being set up at this dinner party by her friend because her bf's friend was also there and how incredibly obvious it was and how she hates being set up etc.  I don't know how she expected me to react but I don't even bat an eyelash anymore at her complete innappropriateness.  I mean we are supposed to be "just friends" so I don't say boo, however we are also ex bf/gf so frankly, no matter what, it is just wrong to talk about this stuff with me.  I also do all kinds of stuff over and above what a friend does - like help around the house, walk her dog, play with her son, massage her feet and back, going house shopping with her and her family, go to her parents for dinner, hang out with her and her sisters, etc. etc.  I don't understand the weird dynamic we have - and she constantly feeds me barbs about how I am disappointing her now or how I have dissapointed her in the past.

So yesterday's conversation I just let go on until it became obvious that it was past my quitting time as I was saying goodbye to people while on the phone with her at work.  I think she expected me to ask what she was doing this weekend which would prompt her to say something like "well if you're not busy this weekend you can come out and help me with (whatever - fill in the blanks)" - the ususal.  I didn't this time especially since she has made it clear she is clearly single and available to her friends who are now setting her up at dinner parties etc.  The huge fight in February was about this dichotomy also - how she controls the relationship under the guise of "friends" but how I am treated as more than a friend - in fact more like a husband.  I actually had to change my mind about going on an overnight trip with her and her family this summer because it just felt awkward with her being so non-commital and yet having me around and so close to her family.  I think the thing that made me change my mind was the notion that I would have to get my own hotel room separate from her and her son (we would be staying in a hotel because her sister is going through a divorce and wasn't out of her house yet and it's awkward for the family when they stay over so they stay in a hotel when they go now).  She was actually mad that I didn't go after inviting me stating that it was "weird" that I suddenly changed my mind - I thought 'not half as weird as me, your ex bf, going on an overnight trip with you and  your family, and staying in a separate hotel room'.  I don't know what her family thinks - I'm told by her sister that her parents and other sisters really really like me' but that just makes our dysfunction even harder.

Anyway - I guess I am saying try not to be too hard on yourself because many of us still continue to struggle with our own issues when it comes to remaining in whatever semblance of a relationship we have with our pwBPD.  For me it is about loyalty, sharing my strength and patience with a person who clearly lacks these traits, my sense of obligation, my tendency towards addictive behaviour, and the difficult fact that I truly have fun with her, her son, her family etc.  I really do and I really do love her even though I tell myself over and over that I won't allow myself to and to just carry on as friends - it's just very very sad that she is completely incapable of any kind of normal loving balanced relationship.  And that's how I deal with it - I guess I feel I have found a role for myself in life (I'm still no remarried and have no kids of my own) and I, like you, crave love, respect, and physical intimacy which I dearly lack in my life even though she is a huge part of it.

[OTH]

Soodone,

Great post. Thanks.

[Auspicious]

and I also truly see that she really is a pathetic person who is very needy and childlike.  

Have you explored why you want to be with someone who you see as a "pathetic person" and "childlike"? Why are "pathetic" and "childlike" attractive to you?

like last week I was planning on staying home on the weekend for the first time in months and Sunday came and I caved.  I called her and asked her if there was anything she needed me for.  

So she wasn't even contacting you - you "caved" to your own internal pressure?

[Awesome Jim]

Have you explored why you want to be with someone who you see as a "pathetic person" and "childlike"? Why are "pathetic" and "childlike" attractive to you?

I find this part of her completely unnattractive.  I am attracted to her for many reasons other than this.  I also wasn't so certain I wanted to be with her anymore and have been dealing with just being friends lately.  I have realized over the past couple of weeks that I have been out at her place far too much lately - to the point that I am missing home and at the same time if she really wants friends or more than that right now.

So she wasn't even contacting you - you "caved" to your own internal pressure?

Yes -  even if she invites me, it's still my choice to go or not (and I know it's unhealthy and that she uses and abuses me).  I gave in easily because I was lonely and bored at home and I missed her.  I also felt the subtle shift in our dynamic lately from painting me white to painting me black.

Thanks Jim

[Marathoncathy]

Just read the article about evolution of a BPD relationship. Again. Of course it is spot on about what happened to my BPD fiancé and I.  He was the most persistent suitor imaginable  wanted to be engaged after 10 months. I was so happy and in love! Yes there were occasional rage attacks... But he explained he had social anxiety and always apologized... .in the beginning. Guess I was Sitting duck... .he was so much like the father I adored who was also from the UK... .my father issues I see now... .made me overlook the red flags.

There was a long clinger stage then unbelievable and quick devaluation at the time we had to move from our apt. He took that opportunity to move out on his own a month before Xmas. He then started phone games, Refusing to take me out or help me out  or have my back on things, telling me friends I had never met told him to leave me,and other games of devaluation... including telling me other women wanted him and he may take them up. I saw he was having the grass is greener syndrome and let him go. When he didn't call me for 10 days before Xmas  when we were supposed to be planning a trip -I made my own plans to visit my hometown, and while there dated an old friend... .assuming our relationship was over.  He Never called me at Xmas.

When I got back to LA and told him the truth ... .He became irate and told me "I cheated on him" I feel this was projection as it was totally unreasonable to believe the relationship was Still on still on under those circumstances. I explained to him he had just devalued me too far... I had to get away and did not want to be alone at Xmas. I had supported him for 18 months prior to the move out  while he went back to school after a lay off. During this time he started withholding affection and sex as a weapon so of was refreshing to spend time with normal people over Xmas who cared about me.

At the end of this conversation... with which I meant to honestly discuss the future of us given all this estrangement... .indicating I was still in love but could not tolerate his lack of commitment and coldness any more... he tried to push me off his porch. He would not even discuss the final business of a break up... .returning items, keys, separating property, saying good bye to my autistic son who was so attached to him. I had given a lot to this relationship and have been devastated by this harsh treatment. If the relationship was over... Why could it not be on a friendly note... .we had shared so much.

My question is... .how much did my behavior contribute to the. Honeymoon-clinger- devaluation cycle? I did not know much about being on the receiving end of BPD at the time and he refused treatment. (I demanded he go to a psychiatrist after many crazy incidents including abuse and vandalism- who diagnosed him with BPD/ASPD.). I expected him act like a GAS (grown ass man) and probably was too reactive to his crazy making, not validating enough and stood up to all his abusive behavior and set boundaries.was I wrong in this? Had I been better informed or more validating... could this devaluation stage have been prevented. I did love him so for the wonderful parts of his personality... and memories of how fantastic the early days were... .of which  he seems to have had no memory .

  He is a handsome man, once a ladies favorite in the Rockabilly scene had many short superficial relationships there. I'm a trial attorney, and our life together was more stable and subdued- what he claimed he wanted so much... .Just seemed to get to the point what we had did not provide enough kicks or attention for him. And I wanted a partner, a waverer. As me pursued me so vigorously and I was the reluctant one initially... .this kind of blows my mind.

Any words of wisdom, suggestions, etc.? Think I'll ever hear from him. And if so, then what? I am trying to start dating again but don't have much enthusiasm for it as my feelings for him were deep... .

[Maria Carolina]

Hi marathoncathy

Wow I relate to much to your story.

The first thing to know is that BPD is an illness, so no matter what you did it would end in suffering.

You were only setting your boundaries and making him to know that he couldn't treat you in an abusive way. Of course he didn't like it (he is as all BP's, a child) but you had the right to protect yourself and your child.

My r/s lasted 14 months (he dumped me just 3 months ago). During the honeymoon phase he seemed to adore me, but even in that time he pushed and pulled, but I didn't realize that.

After six months he wanted to get married, but he was having problems with his job, he lost it, and we posponed the engagement. But when he returned to his job we had a stupid fight because of a movie we didn't finish to watch (I have to leave the theater because of a job emergency) and was the first time he devaluated me (affection retired). Could you believe that.

After that we recycled, spent go od times together, but he never proposed. He lost his job again, I supported him a lot and then one day he started to rage at me because of nonsenses, his car didn't work, it was my fault, his bad performance in sex was my fault, I said stop what's going on, he said I was cold (my family and friends and myself know that it was the opposite), we make up, all seem to be ok for a while, he   gave me flowers for our anniversary, came to dinner with my parents, acted very affectionated with me in front of his parents .

But next week he was saying he didn't love me enough, I said if you don't love me so let's break up, he said no, But 3 weeks later he dumped me even knowing I had a breast biopsy this week, and I was scared to death. He didn't care and he said bye  and justified himself lying he has to move to other city for a job and couldn't have a long distance r/s.

I'm still struggling to collect my pieces, in T and meds but I keep my faith that I' m going to be Ok and grow.

[Heronblue]

"pay more attention to actions rather than words"

I saw this on one of the post above regarding paying attention to the persion with BPD.  The interesting thing is that my BPD friend says this all the time about evaluating other people.  He says he has little regard for what people say, but what they do tells them everything.  Of course, in his world this is often very convoluted, but he harps on it quite a bit.  I did all kinds of nice things for him, but he could only remember how I "let him down" in the very beginning.

[redfeather]

This is the 2nd pwBPD I have been involved with. Both have followed the stages as outlined in the article to A T! I mean it is so eery how spot on this article is. First involvement with a pwBPD she went through all the phases one by one as has the 2nd pwBPD I most recently dated.

The BIG difference has been my behaviorthis time which i am so proud of. but i think it has a lot more to do with finding this resource and doing exactly what I was told to do.

See the first time i knew nothing of BPD I just knew we got close she broke up with me and ran off with someone else. I was devastated and tried my damndest to get her back. Well after about 1.5 months of dropping me on my head she did come back. it did not work and i went NC.

THIS TIME when I realized what or whom i was dating I SLAMMED on the brakes and dumped her. Not in a mean way just sent her on her way. She split me black as coal and I havent had any contact on my end. She will every once in awhile like something on my Facebook page but hasnt tried to contact me. This 2nd pwBPD is very low functioning. I just went right on with my life this time unlike 1st time. WOW 1st time i was a fing mess. This time I have been planning trips, going out with friends, exercising, reading books, posting here if I feel like contacting her. Totally different approach on my end.

[gettingoverit]

I wish this post also included when you are with someone who does not rage, like a waif for instance. My ex never raged, she just gave me the silent treatment. It would be great for us that never experienced the "rage" part of our BPD exes.

[BPD Magnet 1]

WOW... .I am gonna copy this and bring it to Councling... This is 100% how i got myself into this... .This is to scary.

I spent the next many years bouncing between these charactistics until i only had a ''shadow'' left.I dumped everything i ever had into this... .:'( :'( :'(... .

[GreenMango]

GOI,

I wish this post also included when you are with someone who does not rage, like a waif for instance. My ex never raged, she just gave me the silent treatment. It would be great for us that never experienced the "rage" part of our BPD exes.

Ya know my ex raged a handful of times, maybe three, over the course of many many years.  The quiet rages I experienced were like yours... .internal, covertly aggressive, passive aggressive etc.  It made me question my reality quite a bit.  Those silent rages, like the silent treatment, being set up in no-win situations to generate conflict, or her projecting her anger/resentment onto you by behaving in ways to elicit these emotions from you are all ways to be a non-aggressive rager.

It's confusing GOI, it took me a long time to figure out what emotional abuse was and that it's a form of rage.  And it is just as destructive as physical abuse.

Have you checked out some resources on emotional abuse? 

GM

[ThisWayUp]

Great topic!

Just what I need right now while trying to maintain space from my BPDso and avoid her attempts to goad me into going back, emotional blackmail, using kids to try and hurt me.

I'm only 24hrs out (this time) but struggling with the idea of going back vs building my life from scratch after 12yr RS. I just know there will be more to come, and the inevitable "pull" cant be far away once she realizes that pushing won't get me back.

Reading stuff like this helps. Especially when Im feeling weak and full of doubt.

[mgl210]

I met her off of POF(dating website). I met her two days before I was about to graduate from college in 2010. When she and I first started talking, she told me that she had "issues". When I had asked what kind of issues, she told me that she has a problem fighting urges to self harm herself, and that there was something that she would tell me in person(that she had been sexually assaulted by a guy that she had met offline and got pregnant and had a violent miscarriage bc of him). She was sweet, intelligent and a real joy to talk to. She told me that she had been engaged twice(one before meeting me didn't work out bc he was too controlling and the other bc he was a recovering heroin addict and had tried to commit suicide with her prescription meds). She did tell me she was seeing a T and a PSychiatrist. Two weeks after she and I had met, she was sleeping over my house and yes we had been intimant, her T(at the time) didn't think she would feel safe being at my house if she felt she wasn't sure she was ready for that type of affection(the intimacy) and then called the hospital which then released her over to a psych hospital. 

After that, it seemed okay. Then, she just angered me one day and I broke up with her. Two days later, we get back together, and then about 2 months after that, she had a relapse with the self harming ways, and she gets all defensive on me. I to defend myself in this time, told her to just go home. She goes home crying, leads her parents to believe that the bruises that they see on her are caused by me(she did this by not clarifying that I DID NOT do such a thing). I get arrested for domestic violence charges. Charges get dropped. Two months(around thanksgiving 2010), I pmed on her AIM and we decided to get back together. ... etc etc... .

So fast forward June 2012. I miss her terribly. She(or someone did) called me from her cell phone a couple of days ago, I was curious to know what she wanted(also I guess I can admit wanted to see if she wanted to be part of my life again). I called last night and got the standard vm greeting. I didn't leave a vm though. Tommorow(friday), I go to my first support group meeting for people with anxiety, depression. I wasn't fully aware how upset about this whole situation in its entirety till I started talking to my postman about it and could literally feel my whole heart shatter again as if it had just happened.

I will let you all know how it goes... .

MGL

[mitchell16]

very good post, all so true. In made me reflect to the beginning. When I met my BPDGF I was going through a divorce. Of course she started making advances on the sly. Asking my coworkers about me etc... Once we started she told me all about her abusive past, abusive other men etc. I can remember her staring in my eyes as I talked. She was always asking me opinion about what she should do in her job and dealing with her son. I can remeber her saying " its like you can read mind" sex was off the charts. She wanted us to spend everyday and everynight together. After about 6 or 8 weeks she starts talking about me moving in with her, She gives me a key to her apartment, ask me to bring my clothes to her place. Never wants to be or go anywhere without me. After about 3 or 4 months she has to have space, dont think she can do a relationship again. blah, blah. After almost two years we are down to spending 1 or 2 days a week togther, sex is once a week if she is not upset, drained, sick or tired or stressed out from work. I have to almost beg to go anywhere with her anymore she always want to go with her friends or someone else. of course she is very smart she dont tell me she dont want me to go she just starts a fight and i will go to my home to let it cool down and sthen she does what she wants. Of course I question why I dont let this relationship go. why I still hang on. But this post was spot on.

[HardTruth]

My BPDbf r/s started out more mellow than the described.  We met through a mutual friend.  He liked me right away, but I wasn't so sure about him.  He wanted to have sex pretty quickly, but he has erectile dysfunction, so it wasn't mind-blowing or anything. 

The great part was that he really liked me, pursued me steadily, which I returned in kind.  It wasn't "over-the-top" by any means, felt nice.  Seemed normal for someone who has a history of long-term relationships.  He gave me a drawer, wanted to meet my family.  He lives about an hour from me, but we spent every weekend together, and sometimes saw each other during the week as well.  We talked almost every day, which he initiated. 

I had already been through a few NPD relationships, so had read a lot about that, knew a little about BPD, and was in counseling, so I had my antennas turned on.  I saw some red flags which made me question if it could be a long term relationship, but thought I was dating a really thoughtful, super sweet, consistent great guy.

He never went through the clinger phase.

Then, one morning after dating this way for 2 months, talking about plans for the weekend in detail, my xmas present, etc. he had the ED, and blamed it all on me.  Painted me black as far as sex and romance went.  Said he liked me as a person, but essentially denied that we were ever in a romantic, sexual relationship as far as he was concerned!  Wouldn't even admit that I was his girlfriend - it was so weird! 

Said weird things, like he still wanted to get together for our weekend plans, and hold hands and kiss, but no sex as he wasn't, and never was, sexually attracted to me.  Somehow I never noticed that in the first 2 months... .  In these conversations, he also kept getting mad at me and raising his voice, but I couldn't figure out why he was getting so upset.

It completely took me by surprise.  I was devastated.  Completely confused.  Wondering what I had missed?  He seemed to turn into another person.

Needless to say, I didn't want to get together for the weekend.  A few weeks later, after some emails and talking and such, and returning my stuff, he said he still really wanted to be friends.  He said he'd be in town on Thanksgiving to have dinner with friends, so we decided to try to get together then.  He completely blew me off.  Didn't even call me/return my calls. 

Then said he was sorry and he would call to talk about it, blew me off for 2 weeks.  Then sent me an email saying he was sorry, but he didn't want to talk to me, and to "let him be".  Total silent treatment.  For something that he initiated... .  weird.  A phone call is too much when he is a facilitator for a divorce group and tries to talk people down from suicide and stuff?  Ok... .

He has a significant history of abandonment, had attempted suicide a year before we met subsequent to feeling depressed from his divorce, he is an alcoholic but doesn't admit it. 

From what I can tell from being on this site, I really got lucky that it ended when it did!

[wishingwell17]

this is a fantastic thread. And, as just one day out of my r/s it's a very good exercise for me to feel strong and stick with my decision (this time).

early on he swept me off my feet. I had strange gut feelings on the second date, but was online dating and trying to keep my mind open to all people (discernment missing in my decision making here). He was handsome. Charming. Interesting. Fun.  Something was still a little off, I could not place it, so instead I placed it in a drawer and closed it. Whoops.

Looking back, I ignored or made excuses for mounds of poor reactions. One night about 4 months into our intense courtship he was at my home, it was late, we had had a fantastic evening, the whole deal, dinner, fire, wine, fantastic sex... .  we stepped into the kitchen. He asked me "Hey, show me your basement" (My basement, at that time was a REAL unfinished, storage area which hosted a community of spiders, no heat, cold, and damp). I laughed and replied "no, not tonight, it's awful"

He said "Yes, let's go down there NOW.' I said: No, I'd rather not. It's dank and musty... .  next time, ya know when we have clothes on?" He began to escalate and began insisting. ( I had only known this guy a few months. This REALLY bothered me that he would not just wait a day or two?" He then said "What are you hiding from me?" I looked at him surprised and said "What?" Then he went straight to 100, screamed at me when I said a final "I'm not up to it, not tonight", (at this time I think my eyes were teary from his escalation). He walked out of the kitchen, grabbed his clothes, put them on, and stormed out yelling at the same time, slamming my front door, at 3am.

I was left standing there and remember thinking "NOTHING about that was normal". Somehow I felt bad for not wanting to show him, I wanted to know what upset him so much? I should have focused on his behavior responding to my reasonable response.

Truth is, I never got an answer other than accusations that "I had a problem", "I am insecure" "basements are basements." He accused me of reacting to his request in an extreme fashion. And blamed my reaction for the reason he left. Just not the reality. It was so "odd" and just plain wrong.  Up to this point in my life I had no experience with something like this and no idea where to even file my thoughts about it. I think they ended up filed in my mind under "misc". I thought "I really like this man - wth was that?" I should have paused.

I had FAR too many "wth? moments than I care to admit. All which are now blamed on me.

In truth, it would get really good for a month or so, enough to completely draw me back and have what felt like real hope. Eventually in a few weeks he had a problem with something I said or did, did not do, created a problem where there was none. Accused me of something. Or, I found a dating site and would confront him with it. (it's normal for men in committed relationships to browse dating sites to cope with their unhappiness, look for "options and choices.", didn't you know? ) I can own feeling not happy with the r/s and voicing my concerns in healthy and unhealthy ways due to frustrations and it would just add to the smoldering lava, no matter how I expressed myself.

Generally, I feel I was so reasonable that I reasoned my way into not trusting myself anymore. I knew better deep down. I will be learning why I let go of this self trust for this r/s as I move on. Looking back I am ashamed of myself for actually standing and trying to understand his thought process or figure myself out based on his criticisms. I let myself down. (I'm working on this with my T, Learn, forgive myself and trust myself - because I can)

As 2010's post explains well how I feel. I basically stuck my head up his ___ and got nothing out of it... .  and I'm feeling (today) I stuck it up my own for a good part of 5 years.

BPD is BPD... .  You could stick your head up there and look around and get nothing out of it but exasperation and a waste of precious time.  So many of us returned to the BPD looking for answers- in effect, giving them more control of our lives. Now I know, there's nothing left to do but turn my back, walk away and take the butcher's word for it... .  

Thanks much  for this exercise.

[hellnback]

I stuck around because that is what love is to me. I fell in love with her and started a family. I felt, and still do, that I made a commitment. I started a family and I love my family with all my heart. Love, for me, is complete acceptance for another. Yes, she was crazy, mean, deceptive and many other horrible things. But she was also good sometimes. She was the mother of my children and I made a promise before God and family to love her til death do us part.

I know she is bad for me. I knew I was being abused. I accepted it for the good of my family. That is who I am. I am proud of sticking it out for 15 years. I never broke my promise. She left, I'd welcome her home if that was what she wanted.

Don't be ashamed because you loved someone .who was bad for you. You did the right thing. 

[MakeItHappen]

I think it depends on the persons/situation... .  I would say in MOST cases, the minute there are signs of push/pull , hot/cold, abusive behavior, which almost ALWAYS are seen within a few months at the most or until INTIMACY becomes apparent in the relationship, then a person who had healthy relationship experiences and is not a rescuer, etc... .  will seriously give pause to this stuff... .  and pay more attention to actions rather than words. I have to meet one non that didn't see signs early on, and who didn't regret NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO THEIR GUT FEELING that something was incredibly wrong. There are those that walked into these relationships very naive also... .  that doesn't make them mentally ill, it is simply a case of finding out why, as an adult, one has this level of naiveity.

I hope my comments don't suggest a non is mentally ill. I am simply stating that in ALL relationships there are two people and both play a part in the dance. Looking at one's own part is the ONLY control we have over this stuff... .  looking at the BPD's part may relieve some self doubt and answer some questions, but at the end of the day, we don't have control over other people. AND it is also important to realize that we have emotional drives that dictate oftentimes what we do... .  and perhaps an overdeveloped sense of duty, obligation, responsibility, loyalty, etc.

Look, I'm a therapist and STILL didn't put together the fact that I was with  BPD... .  it does not show itself until intimacy triggers all the core issues. But I DID see behaviors that were ''odd'' or ''eccentric'', and I brushed them away. My gut said "WHOA''... .  my intellect said ''Give him a chance"... .  and I did. And another one, and another one. THAT is the problem. Where we draw the line as healthy adults in an adult relationship. If it was a CHILD then the tolerance of course is going to be different.

Interesting discussion!

SD

thanks SD for your thoughts/words. i was reading over old journal entries, just a few weeks into the relationship with my exBPD. i kept saying, "something isn't right." "something isn't adding up." but no, completely went against my gut feelings and moved forward.

it's been a VERY short time since we've been over, which, was never made official. it stings but, having this board DOES make it easier.

thank you.

[MakeItHappen]

Kinetix, thank you so much for posting that.  I am sitting here dumbfounded.  It's almost 100% exactly my story.  That's EXACTLY how my xBPDbf's and my relationship evolved.  The MINUTE I pointed out that I needed a slight bit more love or appreciation from him, he got "monster mean" for the first time, and it completely freaked me out.  It was all downhill from there... .  

He just broke up with me 2 weeks ago.  

Wow.  I'm printing that out and putting it up near my desk at home.

Exactly! The second, I pointed out anything to do with what was missing, it was over. Unreal.

[officer1618]

My ex had her boyfriend write me an E-mail in her name which sounded pretty dumb. He used her account and her name but it was blatantly obvious because he was quoting books and using bigger words than she knew. I responded back to him personally and advised him to read Roger Melton's Romeo's Bleeding excerpt. I told him if he believed he was being a Prince Charming he might want to reconsider his character as King Priam. I told him I don't want to ruin his surprise for the twist at the end of his fantasy but enjoy the story as it played out. I never heard from him again.

[waitaminute]

Hellnback,

I think like you. There is a price for giving the love and care that we have ... .  And I don't mean the sort of emotional business relationship that is called "adult" love by psychologists. Men and women give their hearts and minds and even their lives to country, to companies, to ideas. It's not the best "deal" if you measure it with a balance scale. It's not psychologically "healthy".

Some of us make that sort of commitment to another human being. We know we do it for ourselves as much as we do it for another. No illusion of altruism. We try. We succeed or fail. We pay a price. In my opinion, it is the best that mankind can offer.

That said... .  Thank God for the support that our brothers and sisters give us here when we are wounded on our journey.

[VitaminC]

average people walk away from the nuttiness but those that have old unresolved ''stuff'' are glued to it and try to wrap their heads around it.

100% true.  which is why i think everyone involved with a BPD needs to get therapy or figure it out (about themselves).  doesn't mean you're crazy or you're a failure, but you need to figure out why you didn't just walk away. (which seems obvious, but it really isn't)

Upvote, like, ++, whatever. Both quotes are true and should be done in skywriting, neon, public service announcements, in fortune cookies, and annoying pop-ups that your browser AdBlocker can't stop.