Weird presents - anybody else have this experience from BPD/NPD parents?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

A giant, black spiderweb crocheted shawl (I was 38), It was probably the ugliest thing I had ever seen. Triple marked down, pricetag still attached. With the $4 I got back, I bought a shower curtain.

Very large jackets 4 sizes too big for me--my birthday was after my brothers', maybe these were their rejects and my uBPDm was too lazy to return them.

My brothers often got extravagant gifts (once a whole bedroom set, season basketball tickets) on my birthdays, "so they don't feel left out".

I have in the past given my mother artwork (if it were not for me, there would be nothing on the walls of her house) and jewelry (a pearl necklace and tanzenite earrings) as presents for her. My brothers have shown no initiative whatsoever. After several (I finally figured out-deliberately calculated) presents horriblus that she has given me, I will never again put a whole lot of money or any effort into presents for her. Last Xmas I gave the household a box of pears, which is what they got last year-which is as much as they will ever get.

nc and staying that way.

[velvetfish]

A giant, black spiderweb crocheted shawl (I was 38), It was probably the ugliest thing I had ever seen. Triple marked down, pricetag still attached. With the $4 I got back, I bought a shower curtain.

Very large jackets 4 sizes too big for me--my birthday was after my brothers', maybe these were their rejects and my uBPDm was too lazy to return them.

My brothers often got extravagant gifts (once a whole bedroom set, season basketball tickets) on my birthdays, "so they don't feel left out".

I have in the past given my mother artwork (if it were not for me, there would be nothing on the walls of her house) and jewelry (a pearl necklace and tanzenite earrings) as presents for her. My brothers have shown no initiative whatsoever. After several (I finally figured out-deliberately calculated) presents horriblus that she has given me, I will never again put a whole lot of money or any effort into presents for her. Last Xmas I gave the household a box of pears, which is what they got last year-which is as much as they will ever get.

nc and staying that way.

[Sandcastle]

Mother's gifts have the flavor of her trying to remind me of the "good" times we used to have--either that, or trying to keep me a little kid.

The worst was a decorative pillow (I hate the things) which said something to the effect, "I'm your mother and you'll never get rid of me."  I was horrified.  And this was before I knew she was BPD, though after I knew she was abusive.

In the same box was a child's notebook of writing prompts, illustrated and signed by the author.  I'm a writer.  A real one.  Mother just got it because I'm a writer and the guy was there to sign it.  But--a kid's book?

She sews.  I got pajama pants made out of Popeye flannel fabric because I loved Popeye when I was little.  Never worn them; couldn't even bring myself to try them on even though she kept asking.

I got a quilt (after she made nearly everyone else one) that at least is in bright colors I like.  But, now it's tainted because she made it, and my friend called it the "crazy mother quilt."  So, yeah.  I don't know what to do with that.

She got me a box of jellybeans (I don't care for jellybeans) because it reminded her of a store we used to visit and get jellybeans.

She gave me a box of green Peeps, because I like green and because she used to buy us Peeps.  Sortly after that, she raged at me in a parking lot, and now every time I see Peeps I feel ill.

At the same unhappy occasion, she gave ma a photo album of the firt pics I ever took, just to say, "see, we had some good times too!"   

[methinkso]

Popeye pants. It can't get better than that. You win, .

This theme about underaged gifts is interesting. My mother used to buy me cruel 'gifts' or something juvenile. I've shared some of them before, like the frayed cloth remnant the size of a man's hanky. A chatty cathy doll when I was twelve but ignoring my wanting dolls when I was much younger. I do not remember any 'girly' gifts when I was young. I do remember a humpty dumpty toy that would play music and humpty would fall and break when the tune ended. Something for a 2 yr old she got for me when I was probably 5.

This is probably also a reflection of her own identity confusion ~ that she could not understand age appropriate things.

She bought me what I SWEAR was a maternity jumper for my high school graduation 'dress'. I still suspect rather than outright hostility, it was subconscious because she associated graduation with pregnancy. (my father overrode her and bought me an appropriate dress) Still have it because it was so well chosen.

[methinkso]

Woops, forgot.

I wanted a barbie doll ferociously when I was 7 or 8. That was the mistake, letting her know I wanted one. None came.

But when I was twelve, I got Midge; evilsis (5 then) got the barbie doll and chatty cathy too.

I think all this gift 'crap' is probably at the root of my H and I never making gift issues with each other. Mostly, if we want something we just buy it.

[ThursdayNext]

I'm so glad I started this thread and that it's not just my imagination that the inappropriate gifts are a power/control thing. I had read it on a website but just wanted to check with others for confirmation.

And I think you're right, methinkso, the crappy gifts from parents, especially, are probably why most of us are either very particular with the gifts we give others (I usually go to a great deal of effort to get something that really matches the person's personality/lifestyle/hobbies etc but really don't like receiving gifts myself).

It's very much about the BPD/NPD not knowing (or caring?) who we really are as people, isn't it. It's about us being who they want us to be, not who we actually are.

More 'crappy dad gifts' from my list (this thread is reminding me!):

* he loves a big agricultural show we have in my city (not USA) every year at Easter and always buys some kind of 'crap'. Thankfully I should be out of it now I'm no contact and no longer living with him, but one year it was a $4 at most 'donkey' in lime green and neon yellow with a red mohawk. One of those small stuffed toys in the kind of glisteny fur fabric that tears as soon as you look at it. He said he 'saw it and thought of me'. (I was mid 30s at the time). In my head I was going: 'okay, **what** were you thinking of me?' I kept it out of sight after the first 6wks and then gave it to my cat as a toy as soon as mum and I left. Cat loved it and chewed it to pieces.

* cheap 'hand-painted' wooden eggs - because as a child (10) I'd blown eggs and dyed real eggs for family for Easter. (And trust me - mine looked **much** nicer!) But they had to be put on display for all to see.

* second-hand, battered children's books from the 1950s and 60s - because I review children's literature. (They had been passed on to charity shops because they were old, falling apart, and very unremarkable stories!)

* to my mother: he invariably gave her Victoriana books - you know, pictures of girls in lacy dresses, cutesy cupid children, sentimental Victorian era poetry etc. And completely NOT my mother's thing. (She teaches science.) Also tarty underwear that she could never wear for medical reasons, apart from it being completely not her thing. Best ever for her was the Christmas after she'd left. She was trying to 'do the right thing' for sake of family peace and we went to exchange gifts. He was careful to show her all the 'lovely' things my en-siblings had given him. (Sweet food for a diabetic, etc). Then presented her with a cross on a chain - pale pink crappy diamante things set in junk silver: the kind of thing that here you buy at a chemist that sells 'gifts'. Worst of all was what he said: 'I've noticed you haven't worn any of the jewellery I gave you for some time. I hope you will wear this in memory of me.'    The only jewellery he'd ever given her, other than wedding bands, was something he'd got as a 'compensation' pay off from a pyramid selling company that he was part of that failed. She never wore it because it was crappy and not her style. And when he gave her that he pretended he'd bought it specially, spent lots of money etc. (I told her the truth afterwards because couldn't bear to see her feeling guilted into wearing it).

Oh, boy, they're soo good at being self-absorbed, aren't they?

[methinkso]

Yes Thursday, it is about them.

I think you stumbled onto something. While H and I seldom gift each other with presents, we (, I) use to give it my all trying to please others in their gifts. Still love to but have many fewer occasions to try.

So I've transferred some of those wants into my home. I was thinking the other day of wrapping guest soaps in white tissue paper and stacking a few before tying them off with a pastel ribbon. Wonderful for 'homey' feel.

And I thank you for the thread. I think it helps processing ~ even through our gift history we can analyze and process.

[ThursdayNext]

methinkso:

Amazing, isn't it - it comes out in the 'littlest' things. I've got other issues to do with responses to my cooking - perhaps I should start a thread about that, too! 

But I've found this therapeutic - and validating.

I'm not actually an ungrateful person. And I'm right - my father wouldn't know me from a bar of soap if he met me in a bathroom. (Even a nice tissue wrapped one!)

A suggestion re gift-giving: have you read 'Stargirl' by Jerry Spinelli? (Children's book - teen fiction). Has some really wonderful concepts about how to direct our gift giving towards strangers.

[methinkso]

The book sounds interesting ~ will probably check it out. I could use some ideas and was thinking earlier about finding something to 'gift' for mother's day since we now have no mother and this could be a good experience vs a tense one. Like dropping of cookies at the front desk of a nursing home.

[Happiest]

Its not so much what my BPD partner gives me its what his mum gives us.

He has been advised by a T to have LC with her due to his reactions to her unreliablity and string pulling. I.m not sure what thats really all about but the thing I noticed is that she keeps bying things for his house ( we both live here). Its a small house and they paid 3/4 of it to help him into the property.

She went shopping for the house without him. Took his Dad back to look at it and they decided this was the one.  Then they informed him that if he wanted the help to buy it he would need to agree to this one its the what is best for him. (I had 18 years of real estate experience and I knew they were going to pay too much)

Ever since we moved in, they have tried to dictate the style of garden ( he rebelled and now its a lovely tropical with pond and spa).

Getting back to the present thing though - she buys things for the house from overseas, wall hangings, decorations, rugs statues and sandles for me. Always too big. So I cant wear them. She bought sarongs last time but told him they were for the walls. ? Everything is good quality I feel bad for not being gratefull but her stuff is everywhere and seeing this is a small house there is no room to show my things or, for he and I to shop for "our" things. We have a style that is her style and its like she has our home as her project.

I dont know how to tell him to ask her to bring him home Balanese Jock & socks ... or ... Italian shirts or something more personal for him and if she cant be bothered getting my shoe size then give the money to charity because thats where the sandles will go in the end. Or to my daughters because their feet are the right size.

And whats with the Sarongs being just for the walls?

His mess up with presents is the Valentine's Day flowers "he thought he would get" but didnt.

Why tell me anyway. "Its the thought that counts"... .What thought I said... .the one that thought you would? Or the one that thought you wouldnt?... .Here is the blast though... .I told him a year ago that my ex had done  that very thing.  He called my ex a cruel b... .d.

[DeeEsse]

This topic has opened a floodgate of memories of other outrageous gifts. 

You want inappropriate? A pair of earrings supposedly made by some freaky boyfriend of hers that looked like little knives. They'd be great if you were a rocker or a leather queen, but my style is very simple, elegant basics--think shopping the clearance rack at Eileen Fisher, e.g. with some Gap thrown in--in sort of soft, warm colors.

You want crappy? One year for Christmas when I was about 12, my mom got nostalgic for the big family gatherings we used to have--before she scared all the relatives away--with dozens of presents spread out all over under the tree. So she wrapped up everything she could think of that we sort of needed, toothpaste, toothbrushes, bandaids, deodorant, and threw in a little candy and gum, and that was Christmas.

We 3 kids probably had about 20 gifts each, and not one, not a single one, was a real gift. I remember having this horribly nauseous feeling while we were opening them. I would have given anything for just a little present that was actually something she thought I might like. A pack of stationery, a record, something.

You want controlling? You want cruel? Another Christmas I got a bike. The cruelty of this still juices me up pretty good. It was a beautiful, red 3-speed bike. Minutes after receiving it, I was informed that she and my grandmother had changed their minds and they were going to let my sister have it instead.

I sat there flabbergasted, furious and hurt, terrified to speak for fear I would betray my anger and then god knows what would happen. So I meekly said, "Ok" and just looked down, defeated, truly dying inside... .until... .

Oh happy day! Joy! Joy to the World! The bells rang and the chimes chimed. I had passed the test!  ? Had I said NO, says they, they would simply have said OK and given me my red bike, but since I was such a great kid, overflowing with selfless generosity, I was to be rewarded with a 10-speed bike! A cousin of ours was giving it away and I was going to be the new proud owner. Yippee!

Well after a few days of floating around on cloud nine, we went to go get the bike. It was a very dull and extremely rusty, heavy, straight-handlebarred piece of junk. Two crushing blows in one week. And every time I saw my sister riding that shiny red bike you can just imagine how I felt. No wonder I'd forgotten about this one.

[tryintogetby]

This one wasn't too long ago, but I haven't really let myself feel it yet:

When my second baby was born, my uNPD dad drove 8 hours (to come see me? no, to come on a sales call in my city! I just happened to be there with his second grandchild.) to my hospital room, then spent half an hour with me and the baby. 

What did he bring?  "You'll love this, TTGB, I spent an hour picking it out." 

It was a Hannah Montana keyboard.  For DD#1! Who's 4 years old, and has a piano of her own, thank you. He spent a ton of time showing me exactly how it worked, and "what good tone it had" and all the different features.

I'm pretty sure I dissasociated, because all I could think about was who I could give the dadgum thing away too.

He did actually *hold* the baby. He did actually *talk* to me---about how wonderful he was in his field, in his music, how he was voting for Obama now and everyone should, how he hated John McCain for not picking Kay Baily Hutchinson as a running mate... .I wanted to scream "You have a NEW GRANDCHILD here! Can you not think of ANYTHING but YOURSELF?" 

Just to top it all off---he didn't go visit DD#1 !  He went straight back to his own state after leaving the hospital! He's seen her twice before this, and said he wouldn't feel comfortable "interrupting her."  So he wanted ME to give her this stupid little keyboard, and tell her it was from HIM, but he's worried that she won't KNOW him.

I gave it away to my DD's best friend. She loves it. DD never even saw it.

But at Christmas time, what does uNPD dad say?  "Boy, didn't DD#1 love that keyboard I got her?"   

[methinkso]

DeeEsse,

Don't go anywhere. Hang onto your seat.

When I was ten, I got my first bike for Christmas. I always remembered (but couldn't put it into context), why mother later told me "it's from your father" and I always remembered how her voice dripped with disdain when she spoke those words.

You expressed the exhuberation so well. I was all over that town on that bike. (stirred mother's fears of desertion?) Outside of school and sleep my LIFE was that bike.

Till one spring day. Glorious beautiful spring day I came home for lunch and parked the bike in front of the garage. I was on my way into the house and saw her pull into the drive and go right on throught the garage door smashing the bike to smithereens. I cried out of control. She berated me like the sadistic woman she was ~ guilted me.

See, she had 'fatal attraction' with Dad. I was, again, the 'other woman'. And her vile jealousies showed all the time then.

Your feelings resonate with me. I think it was the worst pain she ever inflicted on me when I was that age.

((hugs)).

[DeeEsse]

Yes, Methinkso I'm realizing now it STILL hurts a heck of a lot. Yours maybe worse because she actually stole something from you. All I ever had was the possibility of a bike. I'm having flashbacks, now. My arms are prickly with rage and I want to go bawl my head off.

Also regarding the bobbin tension on the sewing machine, I've definitely adjusted it. It works for a while and then... blammo. The other possibility is that the foot tension is the source of the problem. I'm pretty sure I threaded the machine right, but of course I don't actually have the manual to confirm, do I? Grrr... .

Oh well, it's a crappy sewing machine anyway. I hardly ever use it, and in fact, I think that's part of the cruelty of the gift. It works well enough to make it hard to justify getting a new one, but just badly enough to drive me insane!

That's it. I've decided. I'm gong to donate it.

[methinkso]

You'd probably feel empowered if you get rid of the machine. If you are doing light duty and not in need of a commercial machine they are extremely affordable unlike years ago. A 'avg' need machine is $100 now.

Oh my. You need some work about the residue of the bike. Just remember that 'they are only thoughts, they cannot hurt you' if you are having a lot of inner turmoil this late at night about the bike (and other memories).

x

[joiesophie]

I happened to read DebbieJoe - father's gifts to her!  Could I also have a third in the BPD land rush?  My father (issues tba but BPD is coming up on the right... .) asked me what I wanted.

I said guitar.  I got coins to start a coin collection and stamp collecting.  How does music translate to coin/stamp?  Yes, yes, I know, buy the guitar now... .but weird thing - I'm now doing tech stuff for a folk band that has, you guessed it... .guitars, singing and percussion (another thing I really wanted to do, but didn't tell anyone.)



js

[Happiest]

The above couple of posts got me thinking.

I must have, somehow, got over it all.

My mum would do the same stuff. She is deceased now has been for 16 years.

She passed away after having Motor Neuron Disease.

I was no contact (her choice) untill my brother told me she had the Disease (she wouldn't tell me)then I contacted her after my last baby was born. I was with her till the end 18 mths later.

Theres many stories about beaut gifts to my brother's and thier partners/wives and zip zero to myself or my kids.

The last I recall, (but not with anger or rage anymore, just sadness for her), - she painted two lovely landscapes for my brothers. One each. Beautifully framed. They were her going away gift to rememeber her by.

My painting was hurried and barely finished. Of three Mongolian children with a goat on a hill in the bleakest weather. The children were looking forlorn and exposed. The paintings couldnt have been so different in feeling. My Sister In Law and Step Dad told me that Mum had said "it was what she saw when she thought about me, I just didnt inspire her the way the boys did".

As soon as I was given that painting after she died, I burnt it. And my 16 year old daughter supported my emotions by burning all the beautifull jewlery and expensive clothing Mum gave her as gifts three months before. It was a ritual we just had to have and my Step Father was furious about it.

She would drive past my home to deliver gifts to my siblings families. At least once a month I'd see her drive past with not even a look sideways at our house.

One gift she did give my daughter was art supplies... Great gift but with a hitch - Jaz couldnt bring the gift home, it was only to use at grandma's and no drawings of God or angels allowed.

I actually giggle now. Its seems so halarious. I was torn and injured at the time and was so very angry whenever I was reminded of these things.

But today I read these stories that do bring back the memories and I find the humour. I hope you all do too one day.

Its all so absurd, this behavour. It just have to have a comic side to it. But its taken time for me.

Thanks for the posts.

[ThursdayNext]

Thanks CheBlossom: I'm at the humour stage, too - friends have helped turn it into a joke.

But it used to hurt hurt hurt like anything.

And those bike stories - that's just barbarian torture therapy. OUCH! Not to mention the painting - ceremonial burning sounds like it was a great idea to me. When mum  left dad we had a ceremonial clean out - chucked all the things she'd had to be seen to keep. Even some nice things, simply because he gave them to her. Worth it for not having the 'bump' on the sore place every time she looked at them.

I know my BPDsis' chn (who've left home) think she doesn't love them because she's hopeless about sending presents. Irony is that she buys them - but then doesn't post them. Sometimes it's because she can't afford it (so budget for mailing expenses when you buy the gift!) but mostly I think it's fear. I don't know. I just know that for years and years they've not been sent any acknowledgement of their birthdays. Not sure about Christmas. Have never been able to talk to her calmly about that one.

Mind you - if anybody else missed one of her chn's birthdays when they were at home... .That was an explosion and a half. (Sometimes it was just that we hadn't phoned when she thought we ought to have - because we'd planned to phone in the evening, for example).

I'm at the point where I wish my father *would* forget b/day or Christmas, better than having to find homes for the crappy gifts.

I've instituted the 'gift that gives' cards at Christmas and am hoping that by example might lead other family members into this as an option - after all, we're all adults, we can buy stuff for ourselves, two of my sibs are quite well off so giving them anything seems extraneous... .

And there are so many in the world who could do with a donation.

[DeeEsse]

Regarding being over it. Most of them--and there are loads more I'm now realizing--I'm definitely over and some, like the sewing machine, truly are hilarious.

But the bike thing was just beyond weird. It was more like torture. And it sort of caught me off guard because I hadn't thought about it in so long.

Since my baby became a toddler, I've been getting deeper levels of "stuff". Sometimes things I thought I had gotten over come back because I see them from a different perspective. It's like--I knew this was bad, but the idea of doing something like that to my own child... .and waves of emotion come up.

I've actually gone back into therapy precisely because of this. Anyway, yes, it was just feelings and all is well.

For the most part, the gifts I've received as an adult never caused me that much pain, they were more like "HUH?"

[Camadd2]

The very saddest part of this whole thing, is that everyone on here is right... .its all about THEM!  Every single part of the gift, is all about them, and how they give it to you... .to control you.

In talking with my dad last night about this thread, and how interesting I thought it was, and how much insight it has brought, we started talking with my brother.  Whom I have had no contact with in over 5 years... .but he continues to ignore that their is a problem with my uBPD mother.  He has expressed concern to my dad a few times about the issues with my mother... .but in the end he decides to ignore it... .WHY?  I asked... .because they haven't caught on to the manipulation yet... .and they are being continually "bought" by my mother... .

Being on the outside, knowing the truth, it just disgusts me... .but we all have learned at our own time, and our own pace about the truth of what really goes on in these BPD relationships... .But with the denial, comes cash, and gifts and trips, and things... .why would he give that up?  I just hope and pray, he comes out of his deep denial... .and realizes the truth... .in order to help my uBPD mother get help.

I doubt it.  I will continue no contact with her, to help keep my sanity.

[sandpiper]

For some reason I go totally blank on gifts as a child. 

I do remember Dad 'stealing' presents before Xmas.  Mother's FOO learned never to post anything because he wouldn't pass it on.

I knew where uBPDad stored the Xmas presents so I'd 'check' the stash a few days before Xmas, while he was out.

One year I saw a bunch of presents addressed to me in the closet and on Xmas I never got them.

I did ask if there were any others and it prompted a huge rage.

I don't think he had any intention of ever giving me the presents from his family or friends (Its one of my memory blockages, the name on the tags - I still have a lot of gaps in my memory). 

It was just a set up.

My Queen Witch Sister steals presents from her children, too.

One year I was with Sister 2 (the alcoholic) and she showed me the lovely gifts she'd bought for the Witch's Prisoners.

A few weeks later I went to visit The Witch, it was a few days after Xmas and I asked the kids if they'd liked the presents from their aunt.

They looked confused and said 'What presents?'

I asked The Witch about it and she went into a rage and said that Sister 2 hadn't sent anything and Never Did... blah blah blah... .I was confused and said 'But she showed me, and she told me that she sent them.'

I reported this to sister 2 and she said 'but I sent them... .' and then added 'Perhaps they got lost and they'll turn up.'  they never did.

I did believe she sent them.

Anyway, a few years later I was the sister out of favor and I went ahead and posted xmas gifts to The Witch's Prisoners as usual.

one of her oldest friends was at that stage living a few doors from me and she told me off for neglecting to send the chlidrens' presents.

I started putting it together and showed her the dockets for the gifts - which I always kept, because the btch would always play some power game about needing to exchange them, so her flunky said 'Perhaps they got lost in the mail.'

The witch lives out bush so this is possible.

Her daughter had a BD soon after Xmas so this time I got canny and sent the gift by registered post so that only the recipient could sign for it.  The Witch ignored it for a month and then stormed in, made her child sign for it (I have a friend in the community so the story got back to me) and then opened it, installed a nasty note saying that any further presents would be sent to charity and never to contact them again, and re-addressed it and sent it back to me.  It cost her thirty bucks because she added the stash of presents that I'd sent for Xmas and which she'd told all her friends that never arrived.

The next time I spoke to her idiot friend I told her what sis had done and she wouldn't believe me because sis had said that I never sent the kids any presents and they'd asked the kids and the kids had agreed.

How vile is the present theft? 

I've actually just been cleaning out the cupboards and I found that box of gifts, four years later, and decided its time to let that one go.  I was keeping it as 'evidence' of her insanity to show the kids when they escape, but I don't think it will be necessary. 

Oh yeah... .sister 2 the alcoholic started giving me alcohol or such as gifts every Xmas.  I tried pointing out to here that I don't drink and DH rarely drinks, these days.

She didn't hear it because the next year she gave us a cocktail shaker.

Her youngest son picked up the habit and started giving alcohol as gifts, I think it was him picking up on her passive aggression.

I was never sure how to deal with it, so I would say 'Thanks for the thought.  We don't drink but a guest might enjoy it.'

And then we'd wind up throwing it out.

I just don't fathom the 'gifts as spite' motivation.

Its just foul.

[LadyJane]

Not from uBPDm, but got this from uBPDgrandma. A bar of soap and a wash cloth, telling me to clean my mother's house. I don't actually remember receiving it, but my step-mom remembers me telling her about it.

[ThursdayNext]

Lady J: who would *want* to remember that! Any idea how old you were at the time?

Ye gods and little fishes (sorry, family saying) - how delightfully 'thoughtful'! 

SaNPDiper: don't have direct evidence of the 'withholding of gifts' but very strong suspicions of it happening to BPDsis' children - not by her but by one of her ex's whom we thought was pretty weird in his own right. Only after she left, though. Some of the children went back to him a few years after she took them (he lived in outback Australia on large property with only homeschooling, not very well enforced, and they could run wild; BPDsis was pretty off centre at that time so suspect home wasn't too happy with her and we were too far away to be a reachable escape on a daily basis). We maintained contact but the kids didn't, really - and have no idea if they ever received our gifts.

An aquaintance of mind had what sounded like an uBPDexwife and when he first left her (chn were <12) he was allowed to visit until one of his stepkids (she'd been married to an alcoholic previously) accused acquaintance of hitting him, turned up in court with marked face etc. (Acquaintance knew he hadn't so who had?) Anyway, was down to limited contact after that and yes, all the gifts he sent were returned.

At one point he waited outside a child's school to give them the gift - exwife pulled child from school, moved them to another school and told the court she thought he was trying to hurt the child. Said the same thing the first time he took her to court about returned gifts - explained she thought they were 'dangerous'. He couldn't afford the constant court hearings and so, unfortunately, gave up. So those kids (now mostly >18) think that their father couldn't be bothered staying in touch and so didn't love them.

Withholding gifts is a great way of convincing kids that relatives don't care - even if they do. So is diminishing the gifts that *are* given, verbally - the kids desperately want approval of their BPD parent so go along with the story, half the time. (Have heard some tales of that, too.)

Mind you, it's not only PDs that give dreadful gifts! My g'mother, who was a nice enough lady, just a bit controlling, always gave my Knight Bro a brown shirt for his birthday. Every year for at least 10yrs. Only problem was that Knight Bro hated brown, never wore it! (Nobody in the family did, nor did my grandparents, so it was all a bit mysterious!)

Thanks for all the sharing, people - it's certainly confirmed what I've been thinking over the years about those gifts.

It really is about control - of how we react, of who we are, of how we live our lives, our choices in all things including taste in music, clothing etc. And it's definitely a way to demonstrate our value (or lack) to them.

After the Mrs Crocker thing I'm going to start another thread on food so keep an eye out for it but keep posting here, too, if you have more to share! Or vent!

Am finding it obscurely comforting to find how common this is/has been for so many.

A side question to it (not worth another thread, I don't think - say if you do) is who has difficulty thinking what to give the BPD in their lives - if they're still in contact? Or just to people who have some BPD traits? (Or are enablers?)

[joiesophie]

Regarding gift giving in BPD land:  They (oow I almost said "we"  ?) give gift cards or checks.  It's sort of ridiculous, because the foo (the we almost showed up again- ick!) wind up with essentially the same amount of money/gift cards/checks that the foo gave. 

What's the reason for gift giving anyway?  Isn't it to show that WE (not ick, us) care for people?

js

[ThursdayNext]

For me gift-giving is not only about showing you care about someone but that you also know them as people - the gift should reflect your relationship with them, so to speak.

Most of my sibs know me not at all and so the gifts I get are about who they think I should be. My uNPD father wouldn't know me (the person inside) from a bar of soap if he met me in a bathroom, as I've said before, so his gifts are invariably about who he wants me to be in his world.

My darling non-mum knows me (the real me) very well and at one point when two of my clueless sibs asked me what I wanted (hate that question!) for my birthday and I refused to answer, she wrote them a two-page list to pick from! All the things she would like to give me if she could have afforded them all at once!

I must admit I'm not keen on gift vouchers for the reason you described, js, and also because, in my family, it's the 'then I don't have to think about it' solution. Especially as often the gift vouchers are from rewards points they have accumulated in particular stores.

I only give gift vouchers if someone has particularly requested it or I happen to know they are saving for some particular thing they really want from a particular store. I did get one recently for a nephew - he's at the difficult teenage age and I would happily have bought him a dvd but didn't know his taste or what was in his current collection, so included a note explaining that.

Again and again it's about the attitude behind the giving - the gift is valueless, emotionally/psychologicall, if the giver is picking the easiest solution for *them*.

I don't expect everyone to enjoy planning gifts the way I do but if they are only interested in throwing money or bad attitude at it, please don't give me anything as it's more than meaningless - it's hurtful!

Same can apply to flowers - a huge arrangement (expensive) from a professional florist can be meaningless if without a nice message or unless the flowers have some particular meaning for the receiver; but a bunch of haNPDicked from a friend's garden can touch the heart.

[apples30]

My uBPD MIL gave us some nice Wedding and shower gifts last Spring and Summer, most of the gifts were on our registry which is fine and we were happy to get them but on the same token I would have thought they she would have given us more "meaningful, thoughtful" gifts.  We got a set shts, a toaster oven, one bath towel and a digital photo frame.  Again we are grateful and now knowing her better the last year or so, I know she isn't the type to give the "thoughtful, meaningful" gifts.  My Mom does do that... the  kind that bring a few happy tears.  Anyway, we aren't grateful but for a wedding gift, I would think she would let others purchase those gifts.  The day after our wedding we had a gift opening, she was always wanting to have us open her gifts first, very obvious and we happened to received 2 of the digital frames and of course she was jealous and had that pouty face.  We returned one of them because we didn't need both and again she was pouty, I think we returned her's simply because she spent more and we were able to purchase another item that we could use.  UGH!  Lastly we were receiving wedding gifts in the mail weeks before the wedding and if a gift came from one of her relatives she insisted that we open it, we really wanted to wait until the gift opening day.  She wouldn't have known that we had goten the gift but it was sitting out with others on our living room floor and she snooped.  She would not quit pouty and bugging us about it... .it was so childlike!  Anyway... this is a great thread, it's amazing all of the similarities that people with BPD have.

[DeeEsse]

Hey apples, just wanted to say that I have this feeling you feel some responsibility to "feel grateful" for something when your gut is telling you there's something wrong.

ThursdayNext hit the nail on the head

For me gift-giving is not only about showing you care about someone but that you also know them as people - the gift should reflect your relationship with them, so to speak.

This is especially true for parents on their child's wedding day, I should think. Okay maybe some people might be better than others at this, but still--a bath towel? Those gifts reek of "well I have to get them something. And I should spend x amount of dollars so that can't complain."

Know that it's entirely okay to be baffled and even insulted that your MIL wouldn't give her son and his new wife a more thoughtful gift. In fact, it's important to acknowledge that feeling--it's a good part of how you avoid getting sucked into the FOG.

My entire life I was so completely confused by the expression, "It's not the gift, but the thought that counts". My mother and grandmother used this expression all the time, even though the thoughts involved with their gift giving were either non-existent or insanely perverse.

Thanks, but if that's your thought, I'd rather have no gift at all.

[apples30]

You are completely correct!  I have a big smile on my face.  She probably thought, "I have $$ to spend, I'll get them 1 towel"... .I never thought of it that way.  I know she isn't at all touchy, feely and now I don't expect it.  All of this is so hard for me... .:-(  I grew up in a very loving, healthy family.  My family is so baffled, sad and angry with how she is treating me and my husband(her son).  I have shared many things with them so that they can try and understand and it 's a way for me to cope as well.  I can't keep it all bottled up.  And yet some days I know I dwell on it too much.  I try to go days without any researching and self educating, I have been giving it a rest :-) They tell to hang in there and try my hardest to not let it bother me.   Easier said than done! I don't want to sound ungrateful for her gifts but I fully admit that I thought it was odd... .

[ThursdayNext]

apples, this is a big one that I've had to get over - allowing myself to *not* feel grateful for crappy gifts. Even things that are okay but not situation-appropriate (like your wedding towels!) or person appropriate.

You don't have to feel grateful. Gratitude or thankfulness is something that should flow naturally, not be forced.

Made harder by the fact that most BPs (and NPs) *expect* gratitude for every little thing, action, whatever. Have burned in my brain memories of uNPD father, just like small child, expecting 'pat on the head' response for doing the smallest ordinary thing, like remembering a birthday or putting out the garbage bins. (Mum or I usually did that. uNPD father did ***nothing*** around the house except mow the lawn, amidst much whinging.)

Anyway, gratitude is not compulsory. Allow yourself to feel neutral or resentful. Allow yourself to feel your feelings, don't try to talk yourself out of them. We've all had our feelings controlled or dictated for so long - it's important that we allow ourselves to be ourselves now.

My usual response to the icky presents is a bread-and-butter 'thankyou for your gift' note.

It's much harder if the person is right there but you know what? Showing a *real* reaction not an artificially created one is part of making people - not just PDs live with the consequences of their actions. HEaven only knows we've had to live with the reality of their reactions to our gifts for years.

Let go of the 'need to please' with reaction. You are not being mean. You are being you. And that's a good thing!

[DeeEsse]

Just chiming back in... .this "oh gosh I sure don't want to seem ungrateful/rude/superior/insulting/opinionated... ." or whatever. This way of being, combined with the sensitivity you've described in at least one other post, is precisely the type of personality that can be really torn to pieces by a BP, because we don't stick up for ourselves.

Now of course, I can imagine why one might want to at least feign some appreciation for the gifts--it's your mother in law, your wedding day, you haven't had that much experience with this sort of thing to imagine there might be some other way to react, etc.

So I'm not saying you "should" have or "shouldn't" have thought or felt or behaved differently in this situation. But at the very least, it is good and right and healthy to vent to people you can trust with NO APOLOGIES. Give yourself the right to your own feelings.

I guess I'm addressing the need to learn from this more than the need to have handled it differently. With BP's it's really important to start recognizing when your gut tells you something isn't right, and learn how to handle that assertively when necessary.

It sounds like you have a loving and supportive family, so you probably don't need to learn how to recognize your instincts, but if you've been taught to be polite and self effacing just as a matter of "good manners," you may feel inclined to ignore your feelings or suppress them in order to avoid reacting in a way that isn't--dare I say--"ladylike." 

The rules are different when you're dealing with people who don't PLAY by those rules. Think Dorothy in Oz; think Alice in Wonderland. It may not seem like a big deal now, but it adds up, and people with no boundaries will push and push and push at yours, taking every inch--or mile--they can get. It's really really important to learn to stand up and assert yourself.

[ThursdayNext]

Just realised rereading my post that it may have sounded like you should have dealt differently - I didn't mean that.

I meant pretty much what DeeEsse said (thanks DE!) just that you should recognise that you are **allowed** to feel your feelings! And you don't have to apologise for feeling them or feeling guilty about feeling them or whatever.

Sorry if it sounded anything other than that.