I have whittled down the reconcile letter somewhat (part 2)

[C.Stein]

Another new draft based on Skips recommended format.  I have to be honest here though, this note feels a little disingenuous.

Worth noting, I have zero interest in opening a dialogue with her if she is in, or has been in, a new relationship since we parted ways.





I hope all is well with you and I want to wish you happy holidays.  I have been thinking about some of the emails I have sent and realize I said some hurtful things.  I want to apologize for this.  I was hurting and it was wrong of me to lash out.  I am sorry for any hurt I have caused you.

I miss our movie and burger night, it was something I really enjoyed doing with you. I always felt safe, loved and cared for on those nights.  I wish we could have more of those nights together.  You are a genuinely thoughtful and caring woman whom I miss dearly.


My love and thoughts are with you.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[C.Stein]

I'll pitch some likely reactions from her for the above note.

• Delete



• Anger ... .Delete



• Anger ... .Add email address to spam list ... .Delete



• Anger ... .Reply with cold hearted message reiterating she has "moved on" ... .Delete



• Whatever ... .Delete.



• Why won't he just get the hint ... .Delete



• Why won't he just leave me alone ... .Delete



• It will never end ... .Delete



• Oh, that was sweet ... .Delete



• Oh, that was sweet ... .Reply with a nice but emotionless note ... .Delete



• Oh, that was sweet ... .Reply with an offer to meet up and "talk" ... .Save

The last one on that list is the least likely to occur ... .probably less than 1% chance of that happening.

I'll point out something here.  While an apology may be deserved for some of the emails I have sent, by mentioning them I am bringing them to the forefront of her thoughts ... .which could lead to a negative trigger.

[formflier]

    I think you are getting close.  I proposed a few edits below.    In my edits you are expressing interest but not going over the top.    Read that a few times and let me know if you still feel off about it.       I hope all is well with you and I want to wish you happy holidays.  I have been thinking about some of the emails I have sent and realize I said some hurtful things.  I want to apologize for this.  I was hurting and it was wrong of me to lash out.  I am sorry for any hurt I have caused you. I miss our movie and burger night, it was something I really enjoyed doing with you. I always felt safe, loved and cared for on those nights.  I wish we could have more of those nights together.  You are a genuinely thoughtful and caring woman whom I miss dearly.   My love and thoughts are with you.

     

[C.Stein]

FF, Thanks. 

If you don't mind can you provide some commentary on why you would remove those parts?

When I read the note with the parts removed it feels cold and lacking any real emotion. 

[C.Stein]

Like to add a note here.  I brought up our movie and burger night when we said goodbye to each other.  It didn't really get much reaction from her.  It is possible she was thinking "If you miss it so much then why weren't you doing it with me.  This is not a desirable thought process.  I'm sure however she misses those nights too but it might make her bitter because we had stopped doing them.

[formflier]

  Say things once and move on.  You kinda apologized twice.  I think saying things like love and other stuff is "over the top" for what you are trying to accomplish.  The note that remains indicates you have interest and think about her a lot.  If there is an ember left in her fire for you, it will have to be ignited very gently.  Think about the visual of starting a fire back up, Send just a little puff, see if it takes.  That's what I think your note accomplishes with my redactions.        

FF

[C.Stein]

Thank for the input FF.  I still think it sounds cold and detached. The type of note you send someone who you only dated for a little while, not 2 years.   I can see removing two of the three.  The middle edit though gives it something personal and it is also something she is not aware of.  It will make her feel good about herself.

Let me pitch this now.  If reconciliation is not in the cards, which version of the notes would you send?  The one with all the heavy language or one of the later ones?  Even if I decide that I can't allow myself back into the fire I want her to know I am sorry.  While I have apologized numerous times in emails and in person, this would be a final apology.

I'll add that in the past 7 days I have discovered more potential evidence that suggests she is in a new relationship.  One is quite likely, the other is a possible.

[formflier]

  It will make her feel good about herself.

       Or that you are being pushy.  It could raise questions.  Such as, if you felt safe with her, what was up with the harsh things that you said.    Ultimately, there is no way to tell or predict her reaction.     Had I know you had already apologized.  I would have taken out any reference to an apology.  My .02 cents worth, think things through, say it once and then move on.        

FF    

[C.Stein]

Or that you are being pushy.  It could raise questions.  Such as, if you felt safe with her, what was up with the harsh things that you said. 

Yes, this is true.  However don't you think it is pretty clear that I am talking about the burger and movie moments?   I don't really see how she could connect a harsh email with that statement.  If she could twist it to that extent then anything that I say could be twisted out of proportion.

Ultimately, there is no way to tell or predict her reaction. 

Agreed.  It will depend entirely on her state of mind and emotional stability when she receives it.

Had I know you had already apologized.  I would have taken out any reference to an apology.

I haven't apologized for the earth scorching email and I probably should.

My .02 cents worth, think things through, say it once and then move on.

Yea.  I do think I need to turn this stone over, just want to make sure I don't look back and see a stone I forgot to turn over.

 

It really is difficult to nail something down here when I have conflicting feelings and the uncertainty of her being in a new relationship or not.  The exercise has not been in vain though and has brought a lot of clarity.

[KateCat]

C.Stein, I apologize for not having read any of your history. But sometimes, when it comes to "editing down," that can be a good thing, no? 

This is a wonderful holiday greeting, if you ask me. Simple, personal, heartfelt, and not JADE-filled:

I hope all is well with you and I want to wish you happy holidays.  I have been thinking about some of the emails I have sent and realize I said some hurtful things.  I want to apologize for this.  I was hurting and it was wrong of me to lash out. 

I miss our movie and burger night, it was something I really enjoyed doing with you. I wish we could have more of those nights together. 

My thoughts are with you.

It's lovely. 

[C.Stein]

C.Stein, I apologize for not having read any of your history. But sometimes, when it comes to "editing down," that can be a good thing, no? 

This is a wonderful holiday greeting, if you ask me. Simple, personal, heartfelt, and not JADE-filled:

Thank you for your thoughts Kate.  What do you think about this one?



"Those who are free of resentful thoughts surely find peace." -Buddha


As I seek peace within I must free myself of resentment and welcome into my heart compassion and forgiveness.

As I embrace compassion I find myself walking your path.  I see how you felt mislead, abandon, unloved, uncared for.  I understand how hurt and alone you must have felt.  I let you down and I am deeply sorry for the pain and suffering I have caused.

As I embrace forgiveness I must release my resentment, anger and bitterness.  I no longer want these feelings, they are poison to my soul.  So in this season of giving I extend to you the only gift I have to give  ... .my love and forgiveness.

I mourn the loss of my friend and companion with whom I shared a love so deep. While sadness and sorrow still fill my heart I find joy in the memory of moments shared, wishing for more to be made.  Experiencing these moments of love with you has enriched my life beyond comparison.  I am privileged to have shared this beautiful and unique love with you.  I thank you from the depths of my heart for the opportunity to share my life with you.

The melody of our love and dream persists in my mind.  The house on the hill, you and the children sitting on the swing in our tree ... .so happy, loved and content we are.  The melody will play on as I walk through life.  I will live our dream in my heart for it is too special, too precious to let perish.  This gift I give to myself.

I wish our time together had not ended.



I have to say, when I started my first door thread I was leaning more towards wanting to reconcile, it that is even an option anymore.  As these threads have progressed I find myself leaning more towards not wanting to reconcile.  Where she once was a bright spot in my life, she now seems more dark.  The light I saw within her is being overshadowed by the dark that represents the hurtful behavior.  I was very drawn to that light, I guess like a moth to a flame. 

I am beginning to question if giving her the material to build a path back to me is the right thing to do.  I would need to find hope, but it eludes me.

[C.Stein]

Revised short note with suggested edits.  We were so disconnected in the last months of our relationship I am struggling to find something we did together that won't trigger resentment.



I hope all is well with you and I want to wish you happy holidays.  I have been thinking about some of the emails I have sent and realize I said some hurtful things.  I want to apologize for this.  I was hurting and it was wrong of me to lash out.

I miss our Sunday excursions, it was something I really enjoyed doing with you. I wish we could have more of those together.

My thoughts are with you.

[KateCat]

I think you're in a fertile learning curve right now and your short greeting to her hits just the right note. (Keep those good, long, thoughtful musings for yourself though. You will probably have more and more of them.  )

[C.Stein]

If reconcile is what I want this short note won't achieve it.  This just comes from knowing her.  While it may plant a seed, the seed will quickly disappear amidst all the other distractions, feelings and emotions she has right now.  The feelings for me are not likely to be good ones either because I have become a scapegoat.  She will continue on the path she has chosen and the letter will only cause her to look back briefly, assuming she reads it at all. 

While a part of me does want to try and work things out, I have a healthy amount of fear that no matter how hard I try I will be unable to get to the other side of the hill.   A cooperative effort is needed to climb this hill and I don't know if she is capable of that.  All relationships are like this, just the difficulty of the climb varies depending on circumstances in the relationship.  This climb with her would be extremely difficult.

Final Short Note Draft. 

I used a memory that is unique to us and not likely to be replicated with someone else.  We only did it twice, around this time of year, but we both enjoyed doing it.  It also is not likely to trigger negative feelings or thoughts.  I changed the wording of the last sentence so she wouldn't add words into it (specifically "had" following the "have", which is something she does.





I hope all is well with you and I want to wish you happy holidays.  I have been thinking about some of the emails I have sent and realize I said some hurtful things.  I want to apologize for this.  I was hurting and it was wrong of me to lash out.

I missed our annual trip to the nursery this year, it was something I really enjoyed doing with you.  I wish there could be more of these.

My thoughts are with you.

[thefixermom]

Each time I read the proposed note, I cringed at any reference to "missing" and "wishing."    I think you clean the slate with your well written and simple:



"I hope all is well with you and I want to wish you happy holidays.  I have been thinking about some of the emails I have sent and realize I said some hurtful things.  I want to apologize for this.  I was hurting and it was wrong of me to lash out."

... .and if she is feeling any tenderness at all she will acknowledge your apology and feel space to apologize herself if so moved.  But if I were the recipient of the former drafts where you talk about missing and wishing, I would think to myself, "oh, he wants back in and is feeling weak and needy," and would be more inclined to have not such a great response.   Those missing and wishing comments could easily flow ONCE she acknowledges your apology and you are having an exchange of conversation.  I caution you against appearing weak and needy right now.  Maybe because weak and needy always turned me off and made me hold back so as to not encourage more of it.

[guy4caligirl]

Stein ,

I feel you , looks to me we both almost at the same amount of posting , that tells me we are still attached , NC is great and you don't hear about them much that helps us go on and keep healing , but the truth is I found out we still think of them while in NC but it gives them time and distance from us not being there available and allow them to see or to move on without our help it's us who are stuck not them  , looks to me sometime that these BPD wants to prove under any price ,something to others that they can make it on their own or feel like an achiever , a few might but the rest No, they need someone to punch bag them constantly they have a "Replacement" take a beak from the punching easier said  than done I know , this NC period away would prove  to them , when things go down the tube they reach out and will wake your wounds up , and start thinking : Ah she knows she messed up and now  needs me .And that's why I am posting to hear your advises , I am not taking it too much to heart I know well how great manipulators they can be .I am not buying too much into it and being very careful of what I say or do .

I am in this situation right now we had a talk with her early this morning and understood more what's going on here how it goes  .

She definitely on her last root to be pulled out but that does not mean she wants to rebound with me.

She perfectly knows how capable I am to offer her lodging expenses a job she loves at her own pace , but she's not banking on that and don't want to come and visit and leave again in hurt she stressed on that  ( BTW  she never done that and no cheating also from both parties )

Just to clear things out the case here is different she is growing knowing that I have to be responsible for my actions and wants to get better ,So she isn't committing to me and I appreciate that  , and she's been honest , she could have used me and what I offered her  a year ago but she kept going .

Now why I went with all this and talked about myself :

C Stein .

No matter what you do now , a letter of apologies a million dollar that's not going to do anything to improve anything at this time ,even if you say I will here for you if you need me I have done that , if she needs  you for something that she needs rest a assure she will jump over the fence and ask u in my case it was $ and that's all it was .

I think by not reaching her you will give her the time to reach out for you when she FEELS it , not when you want it  and man isn't that the hardest thing hard to do ?

Best of luck to you .

Guy.

[guy4caligirl]

Each time I read the proposed note, I cringed at any reference to "missing" and "wishing."    I think you clean the slate with your well written and simple:



"I hope all is well with you and I want to wish you happy holidays.  I have been thinking about some of the emails I have sent and realize I said some hurtful things.  I want to apologize for this.  I was hurting and it was wrong of me to lash out."

... .and if she is feeling any tenderness at all she will acknowledge your apology and feel space to apologize herself if so moved.  But if I were the recipient of the former drafts where you talk about missing and wishing, I would think to myself, "oh, he wants back in and is feeling weak and needy," and would be more inclined to have not such a great response.   Those missing and wishing comments could easily flow ONCE she acknowledges your apology and you are having an exchange of conversation.  I caution you against appearing weak and needy right now.  Maybe because weak and needy always turned me off and made me hold back so as to not encourage more of it.

I also agree with the fixermom  C Stein , and as I said IMO keep it in your draft don't send it let her wonder ,the answer is likely not coming or you will refuel her

[guy4caligirl]

Let me add this that might shed a light into you C ,and I am pretty sure about what I am going to say as in you can't make a blind horse see .

If I call my ex now and you knowing my situation at this time like up to today and say I just won the lottery come and be with me ... .

Guess what I know what she would say here is the answer (SHARE  the wealth )... .And that's about it Nothing personal no I am running to you . I guaranty that .

Yes I went trough not keeping any stone unturned and still here on the site not together 

[C.Stein]

Each time I read the proposed note, I cringed at any reference to "missing" and "wishing."    I think you clean the slate with your well written and simple:



"I hope all is well with you and I want to wish you happy holidays.  I have been thinking about some of the emails I have sent and realize I said some hurtful things.  I want to apologize for this.  I was hurting and it was wrong of me to lash out."

... .and if she is feeling any tenderness at all she will acknowledge your apology and feel space to apologize herself if so moved.  But if I were the recipient of the former drafts where you talk about missing and wishing, I would think to myself, "oh, he wants back in and is feeling weak and needy," and would be more inclined to have not such a great response.   Those missing and wishing comments could easily flow ONCE she acknowledges your apology and you are having an exchange of conversation.  I caution you against appearing weak and needy right now.  Maybe because weak and needy always turned me off and made me hold back so as to not encourage more of it.

Thank you for your thoughts here.  It has crossed my mind that it could be construed as weak and needy but she would be have to be reaching in order to come to that conclusion.  I might point out the very act of contacting her could/may be seen as being weak and needy and this would be a more likely reason for her to come to that conclusion.  It that is the case it will be less about the content and more about the fact that there was contact to being with. 

Personally I wouldn't see those two sentences as an indication of being weak and needy.  It is an acknowledgement that I enjoy her company and would like to continue enjoying her company.  Now if I were to reference something like sex, or even had anything remotely related to sex, that would most definitely be seen as weak, needy and shallow.   

The first part could be seen as me selfishly trying to absolve myself of guilt rather than a sincere expression of remorse.   Point here is we could whittle this down to a single word and it could still be seen as weak and needy.  We can second guess a persons reactions to something like this until the end of time and the only thing that will result from it is hesitation, doubt and inaction.

How she receives this all depends on her state of mind and emotions when/if I send it.  If she is still harbouring feelings of anger and resentment towards me it may not be received well at all regardless of it being read or not.  If she is in a place where she might be feeling some regret or guilt then it might be received well. 

It quite simply is a coin toss, I just need to decide if I want to toss the coin and am willing to accept whatever side the coin lands on. 

[C.Stein]

No matter what you do now , a letter of apologies a million dollar that's not going to do anything to improve anything at this time ,even if you say I will here for you if you need me I have done that , if she needs  you for something that she needs rest a assure she will jump over the fence and ask u in my case it was $ and that's all it was .

I think by not reaching her you will give her the time to reach out for you when she FEELS it , not when you want it  and man isn't that the hardest thing hard to do ?

Best of luck to you .

Guy.

Thanks for your input guy.   

See bold text above.  She already needs something from me and has not reached out.  If her guilt, shame and fear of rejection don't keep her from reaching out her pride will.  To reach out on her own after what she has told me would be admitting she made a mistake and it is highly unlikely she will ever do that.  While she has been more or less courteous the few times we have had contact post discard, she has also been cold hearted which is just one more reason for her to feel guilty.  She may express feelings of remorse or guilt to her housemate ... .but that is as far as it will go.  If she couldn't do it when we were together it goes without saying she won't be able to do it now.

[C.Stein]

Modified draft with the wish and hope removed.  Still saying same thing though ... .just different wording.



I hope all is well with you and I want to wish you happy holidays.  I have been thinking about some of the emails I have sent and realize I said some hurtful things.  I want to apologize for this.  I was hurting and it was wrong of me to lash out.

I didn't make our annual trip to the nursery this year.  It was something I really enjoyed doing with you and would like to again.

My thoughts are with you.

[brokenbyothers]

I read your letter and she may not read more than the first line before she deletes it try "I will always cherish our trip(s) to the nursery. Happy holidays my friend.  " less can be more sometimes. good luck

[C.Stein]

Well, I pulled the trigger and sent the short note a week ago to the hour.  As expected there has been no reply and there won't ever be.  

It might be worth noting that I am now almost 100% sure I was replaced and it almost certainly was several months prior to the final discard.

I checked her linkedin profile about 3 weeks ago and saw a recommendation from a guy who fits the bill for my replacement.  I forgot to make my profile private, and even though it is not in my name she would have known it was me, so she is probably aware I checked it.

Was on the site today checking on a discussion and decided to check her profile.  It looks like she updated it a little bit, but more importantly my likely replacement had disappeared from the recommendation list.  So either she hid it from public view or it got deleted by her or him.  I suspect it got hidden from public view when she saw I had looked at her profile.  

Not really sure what that means but it all but confirms I was replaced by the guy who she is in the program with.   I already pretty much accepted this to be true but being that much closer to positive it happened is still difficult.  I just can't seem to completely wrap my head around the fact that she did this.  It is the most bitter of pills to swallow when you have given yourself and your trust to someone so completely to have it betrayed so cold-heartedly, without any remorse or guilt.  It is unbelievable.

Knowing her she has found a way to blame everything on me, including pretty much all her bad behavior.  I can almost hear her bad mouthing me in her contemptuous, almost hate filled voice, the same one she used to bad mouth her ex before me.  I am also sure she is blaming me for things she did ... .it wouldn't be the first time.  I am ashamed to say it still hurts ... .can't seem to get that voice out of my head.

Sigh ... .the intermittent wet eyes are back for a bit it looks like.

[C.Stein]

Not really sure what that means but it all but confirms I was replaced by the guy who she is in the program with.

Well, curiosity got the best of me and I did a quick search on the "replacement" and it appears I may be wrong about my assumptions.  It appears he is married and has a job which means he wouldn't be in the program with her.  Not really sure how she knows this guy, maybe a past boyfriend.  Still odd that his recommendation disappeared.  So I guess I am back to wondering if it is really true that I got replaced even if all the signs say I did.