Met a girl at a party, pt. 2

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Here is part 1: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=326288.0;all

So I went on a second date with this girl today. I was nervous that the day was too long and we would get bored of each other... .well, the day was phenomenal.

We ended up hanging out even longer than expected. We hung out from 2:30-2am. 

The day was pretty adventurous and full of jokes, laughs, getting to know another. Having a lot in common. We both could not stop talking and we having a great time talking. I was scared we couldn’t talk and we’d bore another.  But that was not the case at all.

I’m only sad there was no kiss involved but more physical touch was and she gave me a long tight hug at the door.

[CryWolf]

Here is part 1: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=326288.0;all

So I went on a second date with this girl today. I was nervous that the day was too long and we would get bored of each other... .well, the day was phenomenal.

We ended up hanging out even longer than expected. We hung out from 2:30-2am. 

The day was pretty adventurous and full of jokes, laughs, getting to know another. Having a lot in common. We both could not stop talking and we having a great time talking. I was scared we couldn’t talk and we’d bore another.  But that was not the case at all.

I’m only sad there was no kiss involved but more physical touch was and she gave me a long tight hug at the door.

[Insom]

So, it sounds like this second date went well.  Any new red flags?  How are you feeling today?

[Cromwell]

A lot of girls still cling on to the concept of male perogative in initiating physical contact.

If you want to kiss her, kiss her!

Really happy for you Wolf. 

[CryWolf]

So, it sounds like this second date went well.  Any new red flags?  How are you feeling today?

Yes, it went really well. I did notice some red flags but then I wondered if shes testing me and its her way of saying im passing her tests.

We did make a bet in the beginning about who would offend each other first, as a joke because we both usually offend our friends based off our humor.

she told me about some dates she went on, and the guys only message her at night like shes a bootycall. she said although she still meets them at bars, its fun at times. but she tells me how she actually likes how i want to talk to her during the day unlike others. she told me how shes not looking for a rs right now, and wants to date because she got out of a rs back in march/may. and i told her im fine with that and im not in a rush either.

So eevrything she said about her dates, she mentioned me and how I 1 up it in my opinion.

another time, she told me how she wished she had more female friends and its hard for her to find female friends, although it sounds very cliche.

we had dinner, we then drove to this cafe. she told me how no one has ever made reservations for her before. and i told her how i have never made reservations for anyone before. we both smiled

then we walked around this area we are both unfamiliar too. joking and laughing. time was going by so much. I was stressing about if we were going to get bored of another. but that did not happen.

she mentioned how she was nervous on our first date. I told her i was too. she asked why, and i asked her why she wanted to know?

she said "just wondering because one time i went on this date with someone, and he was extremely nervous. and he texted me the next day and apologized because he said his friends all told him i would tear him apart because im a huge B!tch" and I looked at her, and I said youre not even mean. and we both talked about how people in our lives think we are mean or too offensive based off our humor. and we joked about how we havent fought yet. and i asked her "how does it feel dating someone you have no idea about or anyone knows?" and she said "its excited "

we held hands here and there for brief moments. i tried being slick and gettng her hand in the car, but she told "you need some better moves i seen it all" and we laughed. and then here and there i would have her put her hand on my shift knob with my hand on top because i was teaching her about shifting in my manual car and she said "btw this doesnt count as hand holding" and we joked.

i put my hand on her thigh, and my excuse was my hand was cold. nothing sexual but just build tension.  

we got stuck in traffic after getting purposely lost on the freeway . we got stuck in traffic then there was fireworks. and we started talking and she asked some deep questions. she asked if im a "player" and i told her no, and ive not slept with more than a certain number, and she said the same and we both dont sleep around. the only two she slept with were the ones she was in a relationship with. she asked how long ago i got out of a rs. and i told her how i dated some other people after. i didnt reveal any information about why those didnt work out.

she asked me if i felt a difference in our 3 year age gap. and i told her not really and how we both are pretty goofy and corny. she told me how she is way more goofy than me. and she told me she feels some gap because the guys she dates or been with are extremely immature and insecure compared to me. how i dont get jealous at all, or upset.

this made me wonder if she was testing me about mentioning her previous dates to weed me out.

later on around midnight we got tacos. it was a hole in the wall spot, and she asked me "how do you know about this place?" I decided to play her own game, and be truthful and say " i came here with someone else before" while we walking to our table. she said "oh". i think i somehow gave her a taste of her own medicine. but then right after i saw her engagement go even more up. she asked me if i ever heard of these questions that you ask your partner to make each other fall in love. we asked each other some as we ate. we bonded really well. she told me how she had work at 8am but stayed with me until 2am and told me not to worry and it was okay.

after cruising and talking i dropped her off home. we spent 12 hours together. and that didnt even feel like enough time. i walked her to her doorstep and she gave me a very tight hug. i got her some treats for her dog that i didnt get to meet because it was so late.

i got home around 3am. she messaged me asking if i made it home safe. then when i woke up she sent me a pic of the leftovers from our dinner. we talked a bit but she didnt reply. then later on in the night she sent a video of her giving her dog my treat i got her. i responded and she didnt reply.

she told me in person she does her best not to stay on her phone or on social media. so maybe thats why she doesnt talk much to me on phone.

i would like to ask her on a third date but want to wait and not come off clingy or strong.

I made her laugh so much and i remember i almost made her snort. she also made me laugh and i felt so much joy together. i dont think i have connected with any of the people i dated previously unlike with her. we really have so much in common and we both arent scared to disagree either. but we get surprised when we disagree with another.

Really happy for you Wolf. 

Thank You! but we sha'll see in time 

[CryWolf]

Not sure if she’s playing hard to get, or taking things slow about the whole hand holding thing.

[Insom]

One thing you mentioned earlier is that you'd like to be in a relationship with someone who knows how to listen.  On your first date with this girl you reported that she did most of the talking and you did this listening.  How did this second date go from that perspective?  Were you able to express yourself and feel OK?

[CryWolf]

One thing you mentioned earlier is that you'd like to be in a relationship with someone who knows how to listen.  On your first date with this girl you reported that she did most of the talking and you did this listening.  How did this second date go from that perspective?  Were you able to express yourself and feel OK?

Yes! she asked me more questions about myself, and we traded off. and my thoughts as well. she listened and i felt like i was actually was being listened to and my feelings were being taken into consideration. not jaded.  it felt really really really good to actually communicate. this never happened with my BPDex or previous dates. we both shared our feelings and thoughts on the subjects we discussed. we both seemed interested in each others subjects. she even asked questions about my car and how much she likes it and how its my hobby and she didnt understand it but its pretty cool. (i like cars )

we both love sharing music, and i never let anyone play music in my car but she wanted to show me her songs so bad and we play fought in the car and i caved . and we would switch songs back and forth and then one artist came on. and she said 'wow you listen to him?" and i said "yea do u see me differently?" she said "no i love him too wow" and we listened to similar songs.

the whole night we had so much in common that whenever i disagreed with her she said she was surprised.

I noticed her body language, she was fidgeting with her keys here and there. other times she was more open. sometimes her arms were crossed. she did tell me shes had anxiety since birth. and we discussed what makes us feel better, and she discussed some of her foo with me. her family seems like very loving and caring people and she loves her family.

i felt amazing, and i think she did too. we laughed so much together and understood one other? i actually felt like i met someone like me.

[pearlsw]

i felt amazing, and i think she did too. we laughed so much together and understood one other? i actually felt like i met someone like me.

Awwwww CryWolf,

How nice to hear that you having such a good time!

How lovely!

~pearl.

[CryWolf]

Awwwww CryWolf,

How nice to hear that you having such a good time!

 

SOO,

we got a third date planned next Friday. She is still a dry/dull texter which I don't like but its straight to the point.

I overthink too much about texting and the messages I send. And give myself a hard time.

[Turkish]

What do you feel is the mismatch with the texting style? Was any of it conditioned or learned from your ex or is this all you?

[CryWolf]

What do you feel is the mismatch with the texting style? Was any of it conditioned or learned from your ex or is this all you?

My ex would accuse me of cheating if I didn’t reply in time. Everything was texting with her.

This girl I asked her if she had anything in mind for next week and she opened my Snapchat but never replied to my text. So it hurt

[Turkish]

How much do you feel that your texting style  (comfort level) is really you or that which is left overt from your ex?

I literally rear ended another vehicle when my ex texted me "when will you be home?" I was so distracted by that.  I was only 5 minutes from home and was on time to arrive when I told her I would in the morning  but I was "trained" to always respond. 

[once removed]

This girl I asked her if she had anything in mind for next week

so take it at face value. she doesnt have anything in mind. plan. be creative. be bold  .

this is a third date man. her not responding isnt her dumping you. it may be a sign for you personally to keep weaning off text messages. i think this is one of the problems reliance on text messages can cause.

then I wondered if shes testing me and its her way of saying im passing her tests.

how is she doing with your tests?

[spacecadet]

Happy for you that second date was so good. She may appreciate a phone call to chat and set a date during that convo.

[CryWolf]

HERES the thing.

Last night she sent me a snap, of her saying “On my way” with an emoji then said “oops wrong person”

I later replied with “ have fun, what do you have planned tonight” and then she’s messaged me later saying “Chillinn” and she was in bed.

Then I responded with “ are those your new bedsheets? Lol” and then later a video of me petting my friends cat.

She replied the next morning asking about the cat. And i responded.

She made me a playlist a few days ago and named it after something of our date.

She put really cute love songs in there.


I also texted her today saying, “ I really like this song” and a picture of the song. ANd all she said was “yah same” and I responded with “I’ll make you a playlist when I get off” and then  “I really think ima quot my job at the pharmacy” and then “it was crazy yesterday” and she never replied. I sent this 12 hours ago. She opened my Snapchat messaged 2-3 years ago but never replied to my texts. I tried sending these texts to actually not start a convo over text but she left me on read. I really don’t know what the hell is going on. If she actually liked me she would text me. She would tell me what’s going on or she’s busy. But she hasn’t. Literally it has been 12 hours since I got a text.
 
I like this girl so damn much but she’s makes me feel like I don’t mean anything to her outside of seeing in her person. I don’t know if she’s seeing other people or not.

I told her I understand if she dates other people and she’s weeds people out, and the last thing is to Ben in a relationship she isn’t happy with. She asked me what If I’m serious with other people and I said then no I want to Ben exclusive.

Idk what’s going. How do you not text someone you like after 12 hours?

Altogough we both established we suck at texting, sh even said she does her best at not staying on her phone and hates social media.

I need help guys. I’m so anxious.

One moment I think she likes me and then tests  me then I think she stalks to other guys and I don’t mean anything.

But then on dates she tells me how no one ever done, etc like I have.

I need help. Please.

[Turkish]

Some women like to be pursued, but some can be turned off of you pursue too much.  If give it a day and send a neutral friendly "how's it going?" Or similar. 

[CryWolf]

Ive done too much chasing. We barely
Text and our text messages look like ___ and dull for 2-3 week so of texting. If she’s actually wanted to see me she would text me. Or if she was busy she wouldn’t tell me
She’s busy. It’s bull___.

[Harley Quinn]

Cry I can't say all I want to right now so will be back later, but wanted to say please respect her wish to not use texting as her main form of communication. It sounds like you both place vastly different value on texts.  As humans we are meaning making machines.  Be conscious of that.  What I hear is along the lines of  'she hasn't text for 12 hours so this means she doesn't like me and she's seeing someone else'.  A lot can happen in my life in 12 hours and if replying to my phone isn't a priority then messages can sit for far longer.

If she's not responding much and the communication is flat, give her some space from the texts and see what happens. She's let you know that being on her phone a lot isn't her style and I can relate. You may be pushing her boundary by continuing to text.  It's only early days yet in getting to know one another. Be mindful of your expectations and try to get past the anxiety. Disordered relationships are super intense and move really fast. The fact that she's not diving in feet first can be a good sign of her emotional health. Take your time.  There is no rush.

Love and light x

[Insom]

Hi,  CryWolf.

I need help guys. I’m so anxious.

 
I here you're anxious and maybe a little angry/frustrated, too. Good job noticing how you feel.  This is good to explore. 

I like this girl so damn much but she’s makes me feel like I don’t mean anything to her outside of seeing in her person. I don’t know if she’s seeing other people or not.

Would it be fair to say the relationship doesn't feel real to you when you're not together in person and that texting provides reassurance?

How do you not text someone you like after 12 hours?

it sounds like you expect her to text you immediately and that it frustrates you when she doesn't because you don't understand what it means.  Is it possible she feels differently about text than you do?  Cares less about text?  Doesn't care to flirt on text?    FWIW, socializing on text annoys me so I rarely do it.  People feel differently about how they use their phones and that's OK.  And also, she's told you she's not big into her phone and social media.  Can you be OK with that?

One moment I think she likes me and then tests  me then I think she stalks to other guys and I don’t mean anything.

I hear you're toggling back and forth between feeling like she really likes you and then feeling like a non-person.  Is there another way of looking at the situation that isn't so either/or, black and white?

[CryWolf]

I’m not sure how to look into the grey with this.

I don’t understand how you don’t reply back to someone in 24 hours.

She texted me this morning, and asked “are you still gonna work at a pharmacy?” I replied with “I received an offer to a different company so maybe”

I sent her a Snapchat asking who she’s going for in the World Cup as well.

I need to take a step back a and compose myself. I’ve been  little things gets to me and dwelling on negatives rather than the positive. I’m dwellings on the things she hasn’t done than the thing she she has done and I’m scared I’m going to ruin this.

I wanted to tell her she sucks at texting but, that wouldn’t be a good idea.

My friends all told me that if she liked me she would at least put an effort in texting me.  Not make me feel like I don’t matter and talk to me when it’s convenient for her.

The thing is she made me a playlist when I asked her for music and she put a cute title that pertained to our date. The songs were lovey dovish.

When I messaged her a song I liked all she said was “yah same”... seriously? And when I reminded her to send me this video she kept talking about and made a comment about it, she didn’t even reply to it. But on the date she was so excited to show me it... .so idk.

I don’t know what to do, before I would just go along with her not responding on Snapchat. But now it’s annoying. And we both said how we’re busy but idk if she’s doing it to play games or she’s actually busy. And I’m scared I’m going to push her away because all I wanted was a conversation through text with her.

I don’t want her to think “wow I have this guy in the bag, he’s so easy” and then think I’m annoying and stop talking to me. But I also am afraid if we don’t text she won’t like me and we won’t have a deep connection.

[Insom]

I hear you've developed some intense feelings pretty quickly which can be a red flag.

I need to take a step back a and compose myself.

Nice idea. What does stepping back look like to you?

[CryWolf]

Let her approach me. Back off. Have a take it or leave it attitude like the previous girls I dated. Stop caring about everything she thinks about. Not makes her a priority if I’m not one.

Stop forcing things. I got so hooked by her.

[Insom]

How do you feel about stepping back to assess if this is a healthy relationship for you?

[CryWolf]

How do you feel about stepping back to assess if this is a healthy relationship for you?

I think I became really hooked by our second date based off our bonding and talking. and also her being distant inbetween dates and her feelings being unclear as well as mine that ive shown her.

She could be feeling anything, but idk. this friday we have a date. and I hope it goes well. no idea what to plan.

[once removed]

But I also am afraid if we don’t text she won’t like me and we won’t have a deep connection.

i think members are trying to tell you that this is not how deep connections are formed. certainly not how she seems to form them.

CryWolf, im not really sure why youre looking at this (lack of texting) as your sole source of reassurance. second and third dates are reassurance. this girl has consistently shown interest in you. things are going well and at the pace they ought to be.

but your anxiety is getting the best of you and is triggering you big time. its almost as if anxiety = attachment (attachment styles speak to this).  and you are sabotaging a bit in trying to find reasons she doesnt like you, or that you should cut her off.

Let her approach me. Back off. Have a take it or leave it attitude like the previous girls I dated. Stop caring about everything she thinks about. Not makes her a priority if I’m not one.

Stop forcing things. I got so hooked by her.

i bring all of this up because its happened before and i suspect its likely to happen again regardless of what happens. and it can become like a self fulfilling prophecy, sabotaging future relationships. id hate to see that.

this is a light and fun, not hot and heavy stage of a relationship. youre getting to know each other. youve had some good dates and shown her a good time. your investment in that is higher than hers, and higher than it would be for 90% of women. shes not preoccupied. shes going with the flow and shes content. probably excited too. none of this means shes a danger or bad news but our hearts and minds can go there to protect from anxiety or feelings of powerlessness. we project it on others and misread them.

my advice would be let go of the texts. focus on the dates. youre coming up on your third. thats the connection. thats where she feels connected. have fun. show her a good time. kiss her if you want to kiss her! a third date is certainly a step... .at that point youll want to assess if you want to take things further or maybe see other people.

[CryWolf]

You guys are absolutely right. I was putting too much detail into the texts. My friends were getting in my head about texts and if someone liked me they would make time for me. They also were telling me she probably was just using me for dates. This got me so affected. me being ignored or waiting for responses makes me feel like I’m not a priority and she’s with some one else. But I need to stop thinking like this. It’s not healthy and I’m only self sabatoging.

I hate not knowing and not feeling in control. I need to be more in the present and go with the flow and present moment. I’m not sure how to become more accepting of this. I know this is the right approach to many things and it’s worked so far. I need to stop putting meaning behind everything and look at any negative.

Today I asked her if she was busy to hang out and she told me she was at her second job and we actually had a convo sporadically on snap.

I need to stop placing meaning on texts and if she’s doesn’t respond to me it doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world. My whole life has been used to texting and if someone who doesn’t text back means they aren’t interested. But so far the dates speak for themselves.

I need to practice being calm and in the moment and positive.

So far things are back on track. Date is this Friday.

I want to kiss her but the timing is never right and she backs away sometimes when I get close or when I walk her to her door she quickly hugs me. She seems very nervous and anxious

It’s supposed to rain this Friday. And I was thinking of going to lunch and then a lake but idk anymore. I’m not sure what to plan and be romantic. I love planning and I’m kind of in a block right now

[Turkish]

My whole life has been used to texting and if someone who doesn’t text back means they aren’t interested. But so far the dates speak for themselves.

Be mindful of who you are, but respect her for who she is. If she weren't interested, she wouldn't be going on a date with you,  yes?

Maybe not go in for the kiss so soon. Just touch her a lot.  Not in a creepy way, but find ways to touch her arm, shoulder, nudge, etc. If she reciprocates then you know she's interested.  

[CryWolf]

Be mindful of who you are, but respect her for who she is. If she weren't interested, she wouldn't be going on a date with you,  yes?

Maybe not go in for the kiss so soon. Just touch her a lot.  Not in a creepy way, but find ways to touch her arm, shoulder, nudge, etc. If she reciprocates then you know she's interested.  

Very good point Turkish. And yes has been more touching, and she initiated as well. But I still think she is waiting for the kiss to be later down. Idk. Shall see Friday.

[once removed]

if someone liked me they would make time for me.

this is a true statement. but what it means really depends on context.

three dates is making time for you. "im constantly working but lets meet at 1 am" is clearly making time for you.

you could also say that if she showed up at your house right now and asked you to marry her that she obviously liked you and was making time for you. given the nature and state of the relationship, i think wed all find it inappropriate and excessive.

this is not a deep, close, best friendship. this is not a girl whom you have been in a relationship with for a few months (or one that at this point is official). this is a girl you met at a party, hit it off with, and have had a couple of dates with where you clicked, and shes (clearly) interested in doing that again. it doesnt sound like its more than that, and at the moment, thats fine; its par for the course and where things "should" be. learning about pars for courses (stages of relationships) will go a long way, and i suspect it will take some experience and trial and error to make sense of. learning about what you like and dont like, whats normal and not normal, whats realistic and unrealistic, whats workable and not workable, and how it all evolves and can devolve over time.

in your recent posts, you have expressed wanting more, at least by text. more connection, more chat. i dont think thats invalid. i do think it may be unrealistic by and large in terms of where the relationship is, how she is, and where she sees the relationship currently. healthy and independent people dont just dive all in from the moment they find someone they click with.

are there women that at this point would be blowing up your phone? sure. youve met at least one. youve also seen how easy it is to over invest in that, how easy it can be to read it as more of a foundation for a relationship than exists, and how quickly it can fizzle out.

They also were telling me she probably was just using me for dates.

i dont even know what this means. using someone for dates? like, a free dinner? having nights on the town with you, touching, all this conversation and shared interests, sounds like an obscene amount of trouble to go to in order to obtain a free dinner. for what its worth, ive never met nor heard of anyone who has done that.

me being ignored or waiting for responses makes me feel like I’m not a priority and she’s with some one else.

back to the state of where the relationship is (at this point) it strikes me as a healthy sign that shes not made you more of a priority than she has. fear and anxiety are driving you to make her essentially a very top priority. i suspect she doesnt have that going on, and so it isnt coloring her thoughts or driving her. thats not the same as disinterest.

im not saying make her less of a priority, or that she needs to make you more of one, exactly. im saying read the situation and see things for what they are and dont over invest your heart and mind. real connection and bonding (not hours of texting, though they can feel nice) take time to build and grow.

I hate not knowing and not feeling in control. I need to be more in the present and go with the flow and present moment. I’m not sure how to become more accepting of this. I know this is the right approach to many things and it’s worked so far. I need to stop putting meaning behind everything and look at any negative.

this probably wont change over night, but with conscious effort and learning. CryWolf, im the king of anxiety and over reading and obsessing. i find the better i get at reading people and situations (as opposed to projecting my fears and anxieties), the less they affect me. the better i am at spotting my triggers, realizing im triggered, and self soothing. and the better i am at giving and receiving love (or "like". Wisemind.

theres a lot you do know. she approached you. youre now approaching a third date. youve had lots of touch, flirting, holding hands. if we discount the positive and lean on more reassurance, nothing is ever enough.

I need to stop placing meaning on texts and if she’s doesn’t respond to me it doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world. My whole life has been used to texting and if someone who doesn’t text back means they aren’t interested. But so far the dates speak for themselves.

as i said previously, this will probably take some adjusting and adapting. we all get very used to our mediums, but the dating world, as we get older, is constantly changing. when i was in high school, relationships and friendships were very much conducted by text. afterward, i continued to use them as a sort of crutch while the rest of the world moved on from that medium. it took me some time to adapt to that. now, text would do very little for me.

I want to kiss her but the timing is never right and she backs away sometimes when I get close or when I walk her to her door she quickly hugs me. She seems very nervous and anxious

knowing this, id agree with Turkish, dont push too hard for the kiss. she may certainly be nervous and anxious. a few times in my life i held back because i was nervous, even though i wanted to kiss. my ex was nervous and anxious, clearly evaded my efforts, but when she calmed down, kissed me. in other words, what you describe suggests not a bad thing necessarily, but that for whatever reason, she hasnt been ready.

It’s supposed to rain this Friday. And I was thinking of going to lunch and then a lake but idk anymore. I’m not sure what to plan and be romantic. I love planning and I’m kind of in a block right now

youve done a good job so far. lunch and the lake sound fine to me. you know what she likes and is interested in. as you let go of the tension, ill bet it will come to you.

[CryWolf]

Thank you for the amazing advice Once Removed.

I truly appreciate it and have been re reading it multiple times to soothe my anxiety.

However, I am extremely anxious of her talking to other guys.

Last week our date was on Tuesday. Last night she responded to my snap around 1am taking A picture in someone’s passenger seat. Last week, I saw her take a pic on snap of being in my passenger seat. Not sure if she’s talking to multiple guys and doing the same thing.

I asked her “how was your day?” And she said “it was really good”
She does have a nanny job, could be someone giving her a ride home. Could be Uber giving her s ride home since she doesn’t drive. Could be a date.

These thoughts are driving me crazy. I’m going all
Out on my dates and I’m not sure where I even stand with her if she’s dating other people. I haven’t dated someone before who dates other people.

[BeagleGirl]

CryWolf,
I wanted to let you know that I'm kinda in the same boat as you right now.  Some attraction/flirting started going on with someone in my neighborhood about a month ago and I'm having a hard time keeping myself from making "Neighbor B" analysis a full time job.  I'm also struggling with the frustration of not being able to control the situation to the degree I would like, and the anxiety associated with the uncertainty of it all.

I'll share some of the advice I'm getting from my BFFs.  Maybe we can commiserate over how impossible it seems. 

Date other people - One of my BFFs suggested this week I go ahead and put up a profile on a dating site or two.  It's still early days after my divorce and earlier than I thought I'd start dating, but as she watches my thoughts (and maybe some feelings) progress towards Neighbor B she is encouraging me to keep my dating field open.  I tend to agree with her that having other "options" could help diffuse my emotional investment in Neighbor B and, more importantly, help me stay in a mode of "what do I want?" vs. "what can I live with?".  If I'm hitting it off with someone who isn't 10.5 years older than me and has all his hair, maybe it won't matter so much whether Neighbor B is using fewer exclamation points in his texts to me. 

Do other things - I have noticed that I have started planning my day around when Neighbor B might be around or texting and I'm fighting that urge.  It's a little to easy to do my nightly jog as laps around the neighborhood rather than getting out a bit further.  Not only does "doing other things" keep me from seeming a bit TOO available (my friends and therapist keep reminding me that I'm worth working for), it helps keep my mind occupied in a positive manner.

Keep the "relationship" in perspective - Neighbor B hasn't officially asked me out.  He's said things like "we should get dinner sometime" and the like, but he's kept it vague (don't get me started on the million reasons I've determined he could be doing so).  I haven't really even started to get to know him, so at this point my feelings are really only based on fantasy and potential - not who he is.  Keeping that in mind does (sometimes) help me detach from his actions, or lack thereof.  It helps to remind myself that I want a healthy, loving relationship.  I don't yet know if I want that with him, specifically.

Remember that whether he wants relationship with me has to be secondary to whether I want relationship with him - This is a biggie!  It is so easy for me to spend all my time wondering how he feels about me and not give a second thought to how I feel about him.  It's far too easy for me to be thinking about how I could make the relationship work and not ask "should I?".   

Remember your worth - I think at this stage I am in love with the idea of being in love (or at least in love with the idea of being in "like" and I can see the danger of falling back into the pattern of care taking and equating being needed with being loved.  Before I know it I'd be married to someone that takes fore granted what I will offer with so little asked in return.  It goes back to what my therapist has requested of me - Don't consider dating until you understand your worth without anyone else having to tell you what it is.  My friends keep "harping" on the fact that I'm worth being pursued, so if Neighbor B isn't into pursuing or, more likely based on my patterns, I don't give him the opportunity to pursue me because I'm too busy pursuing him, then I'm allowing my worth be be dictated by someone else. 

Looking at your situation, it's a little easier for me to see the  you are facing and then extrapolate to my own, so thank you for being so candid.

Your last post has me wanting to offer you one piece of advise.  It sounds like you are looking for an exclusive relationship with this woman (you don't like the idea of her dating other guys while she is "evaluating" you).  It may not be something you want to acknowledge to her, or even to yourself, but that's the impression I've gotten.  I think that's something you may want to spend some time thinking about.  I don't think you necessarily need to work towards being "okay" with her not being exclusive, but I think you would benefit from remembering that she was very open with you from the beginning that she is not all that interested in being exclusive at this time.  Thinking that is just because she hasn't met the right guy (you), does a disservice to both of you.  It denies her the right to not be ready for an exclusive relationship, and leaves you questioning why you weren't "enough" to make her want to be exclusive. 

If you decide you really want her to move towards exclusivity (you seem to already be there), then I think you should consider having an honest conversation with her about it and be willing to walk away from the relationship rather than compromise on where you want it to go.  What do you think?

BG

[CryWolf]

WIll reply when I can, at work. But I sent her a “I’ll pick you up at 3 on Friday!” And she put 3 emojis of the “nice” sign. Like agreeing.

It makes me seem like she doesn’t care at all.

[Turkish]

WIll reply when I can, at work. But I sent her a “I’ll pick you up at 3 on Friday!” And she put 3 emojis of the “nice” sign. Like agreeing.

It makes me seem like she doesn’t care at all.

How would you want her to respond?

[CryWolf]

How would you want her to respond?

Some words. Maybe she can’t wait? How excited she is? Not emojis... words... she sent me a playlist and I sent her one and asked her thoughts and she never even replied

[BeagleGirl]

How quickly did she respond with said emojis?

Has she ever been "wordy" in text exchanges before?

I can definitely help you (over) analyze this a bit.  As mentioned above, I'm currently trying to figure out the meaning of certain exclamation points. 

But as a diversion, maybe you could ponder aloud on what the purpose of your communication with her is.  Are you:

a)  Communicating facts
b)  Trying to give her information about yourself?
c)  Trying to get information about her?
d)  Trying to tell her how you feel?
e)  Trying to get her to tell you how she feels?
f)  Trying to discern what your worth is?
g)  Other

BG

[CryWolf]

How quickly did she respond with said emojis?

Has she ever been "wordy" in text exchanges before?

I can definitely help you (over) analyze this a bit.  As mentioned above, I'm currently trying to figure out the meaning of certain exclamation points.  

But as a diversion, maybe you could ponder aloud on what the purpose of your communication with her is.  Are you:

a)  Communicating facts
b)  Trying to give her information about yourself?
c)  Trying to get information about her?
d)  Trying to tell her how you feel?
e)  Trying to get her to tell you how she feels?
f)  Trying to discern what your worth is?
g)  Other

BG

She’s never been wordy. But she does respond in a timely manner before.  But slowly our exchanges became less after each date. But the dates themselves have been Incredibly awesome. I remember our first date I apologized if I’m a bad texter and then after that our texting slowly died down because she said she’s is too and how her friends think she ignores them.

After the second date I told her I’m so busy ar work it’s crazy then her responses died down even more and longer wait times. Not sure if she’s dating someone new and only messaged me around midnight when she gets dropped off. Because that seems to be the same time I take her home. But she initiated contacted both times after our dates.

This time however contact died down and she seems less responsive. Completely different in person.

I get this vibe she uses people for a good time. She’s mentioned before how she wants to call an Uber and if it’s a guy just do whatever they want and it won’t work if I’m there’s because I’m a guy.

She still responds and even accepted a third date. But response time isn’t much less.

The responses were short before but now they just seem like she is not interested.
 This has happened before in all my prior relation ships. They text less and less and more vague until they ghost you. Or stop talking to you. And the “it’s been note you it’s me”

As well as, I tried starting multiple convos with her and she just doesn’t respond rsosknd. Before she would send random snaps. She hasn’t since last Wednesday. She only replies to mine. I am doing all the chasing.

[CryWolf]

IN person she communicates very well. ASKs a lot of questions.

Seems engaged and sharing.
First date she showed me around her campus. Second date she showed me this museum and talked about her childhood, foo, anxiety, fears. We talked about a lot of personal questions.

I snapped her this morning saying “hope you have a great day” she never replied.

But she replied to my text about picking her up. But she ignored the playlist I made her. So idk? Idk what is going on. But anytime anything regarding feelings or flirting is involve, she doesn’t reciprocate over text.

I’m thinking about telling her I would like this to get serious down the road and what intentions are. I want to ask her how many people she’s talking to but I don’t know if this is a bad idea. I would like more answers and clarity.

Don’t get me wrong seeing her is awesome but that’s once every 10 days. The next days it’s like I don’t exist.

[CryWolf]

Is it wierd that this girl makes me feel similar to what my BPDex did? nervous, anxious, fog? or am i just being paranoid?

[Turkish]

Is it wierd that this girl makes me feel similar to what my BPDex did? nervous, anxious, fog? or am i just being paranoid?

Maybe her communication style is just the way she is. Given that and what you need,  maybe you might not be a good match.  Would you consider that it might be just that? Go on the date, see how it goes.  People reveal their true character by doing rather than saying,  and my personal view is that texting falls under saying rather than doing. 

[once removed]

or am i just being paranoid?

thought and fears are gripping you pretty tightly.

Is it wierd that this girl makes me feel similar to what my BPDex did?

i think that there are two issues here. theyre not about emojis  

the first is that if youre finding yourself feeling this way with each girl, and repeating these patterns, stop and ask what part of that is you. thats what we are here to do, learn more about ourselves, get perspective on what we learn, unlearn some unhealthy behaviors, learn healthier ways of coping.

i think that attachment styles would be a great start and bring a lot of perspective as to why you find these patterns repeating. this link would be a good starting point, and i highly recommend the book: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279028.0

It sounds like you are looking for an exclusive relationship with this woman (you don't like the idea of her dating other guys while she is "evaluating" you).  It may not be something you want to acknowledge to her, or even to yourself, but that's the impression I've gotten.  I think that's something you may want to spend some time thinking about.  I don't think you necessarily need to work towards being "okay" with her not being exclusive, but I think you would benefit from remembering that she was very open with you from the beginning that she is not all that interested in being exclusive at this time.  

you are pushing for more than this girl has signaled she is prepared to offer.

it happens. when it does, sometimes its us. sometimes its them. sometimes its not anybody, it just doesnt work, and thats okay.

i would second BeagleGirl in encouraging you to think that through. i dont think the healthy solution, whatever conclusions you come to, is to keep pushing, to chase, to try and engage her in lengthy text conversations when she doesnt respond (and has told you she does the same to everyone), or to expect her to be exclusive. it has not worked in the past. it will not work in the future.

i would ask myself some questions about whether im being realistic in my expectations in general or based on what shes told you. i would ask myself whether or not i can honestly work with what she has communicated to me.

next, i would ask myself what i like and dont like about this girl. the attraction here seems far more based on fears and anxieties and trying to control the outcome than it does anything about who she is and what shes like, or even, frankly, whats in it for you.

it is valid and reasonable to say "we just arent clicking, it isnt working for me" or "im just not comfortable dating someone who may be seeing other people/may or may not be a dead end", and then act accordingly.

the question is, in this case, what do you think acting accordingly might be?

[CryWolf]

You all are right. I spent most of the day reflecting, and putting too much behind texts. I am too focused on locking a relationship when I should enjoy whatever this is and take it slow and organic. Whether she likes me or not should be on her, and not me trying to force it.

Her actions seem in person are different than the phone. I need to stop being anxious and wondering and making scenarios and being scared if im going to be played or used. Its either going to happen or not, and falling in love is going to happen or not. This is dating. It could be magical or treachorous but its all a learning experience. Just like being in a rs with a pwBPD. it all helps you grow.

The best thing here is to be my true self. Take it slow and not overanalyze every little thing. Show her the real me and if it doesnt work, i know I did the best i could and have no regrets. be nothing but authentic.

I have fears if shes dating around or not, but this is my own insecurities of self worth playing in.

chasing and pursuing too much has never ended in my favor. I know i have an anxious attatchment style. i have been great at managing my anxiety the past few months but lately not so much.

I need to go back to being the confident and go with the flow version.

I am going to respect her boundaries of not texting too much and leaving it up to her.

This friday Im going to continue being myself, making her laugh and creating attraction.

I would like for her to chase me and see me as the best option, this is the goal I would like but I am too focused on this that I am forcing it than letting be natural.

So far she agrees to my dates, and thats the best sign yet.

[Turkish]

This sounds like a good plan.  Print it out and pin it to your fridge 

[CryWolf]

She just messaged me saying, “I have to be home by 11 on Friday, just so you know”

Uhm cold much? Trying not to think much into it.

Her messages are so cold now. Like dead cold. And I don’t think it’s me being anxious at this point but intuition.

[Turkish]

Or she could just be being polite and informative?

Your texting styles are different. Can you text back mirroring that?

"Thanks, good to know. See you then."

She's going out with you.  I think that's a big thing rather than "sorry,  I have to cancel because I have to wash my cat."

[once removed]

i think Turkishs advice on how to reply is spot on. you mentioned you keep trying to engage her by text. if she is indeed dialing things back, its a sign to dial it back yourself. frankly, either way, its a good old fashioned BIFF reply and realistically what text is for.

I should enjoy whatever this is and take it slow and organic.

should you?

its one thing to say/realize "im being unrealistic and i ought to switch gears". sometimes thats all it takes.

i dont know if its the best approach in every case. i saw(?) a girl who wanted to keep things very limited to text. shed initiate conversation and want to chat all day, but if i initiated, she was usually pretty unavailable. she did a lot of the pursuing for a time. when shed pursue hard, id push to get together (both because i thought it was what i was "supposed" to do and because i was not content, i wasnt looking for a pen pal). shed shut it down. told me she was nervous and required patience. i told myself okay, be cool, play by her rules (in reality id be anxious waiting for her to contact me and reading into everything).

i couldnt tell you then or now what i liked about her other than i found her very physically attractive and loved her attention. i could articulate a lot about what i didnt like about her.

i waited to get together for some months, agonizing with absurd and over the top anxiety most of the time. we finally did, at her favorite bar. i broke the touch barrier. we got on well enough. i didnt like anything in particular about her. i thought it was kinda rude that she didnt introduce my friend and i to her friends and kind of segregated us. i could tell though, id done well if i wanted her to like me more, and thats all i cared about. and then i promptly got too heavy (chased) and it blew up, and we barely ever spoke again.

i dont wish to paint her black; i think i was barking up the wrong tree in the first place. i didnt care much for her as a person, but about the attention and the chase, and that was a lot of chase for someone i supposedly didnt much care for. more than that, i think we just didnt click with each other; i think i have a good idea of what shed say about me.

not trying to hijack. my point is that this stuff, and navigating it, isnt all black and white. i was a mess, i could have played it better, and thats obvious to me. its not something i want to repeat. but neither is pursuing something that is clearly not for me in the first place.

i do think you are overreacting. i think it couldnt be more obvious that shes interested (the potential of that interest is not clear). i think connection is not formed by text and that expecting it to be will not help in the modern dating world. i dont think thats the entire point. as i think BeagleGirl was saying, the point isnt to just adapt and try to change yourself to suit something that doesnt work for you. anxiety or discomfort over someone youre dating possibly seeing other people is perfectly legitimate and a scenario that is not for everyone and it can either be reasonable or foolhardy to adapt to. shes been upfront about dating a lot and currently not looking to be exclusive. respect it. that doesnt necessarily mean like it.

i think thats why others are asking you what you see in her. what you like about her. whether she passes your tests. important things to ask oneself ahead of a third date.

when you can answer that, when you approach dating that way, i think the rest of it, how to approach it, read it, and why, gets a lot clearer.

[BeagleGirl]

Okay, so for that (over) analysis I promised -

If she got back to you pretty quickly on the informative text (I'll be picking you up at x) it probably means that she's monitoring her phone and prioritizes getting back to you.  It can also mean "I like this type of text."  

If she takes longer to respond, or doesn't respond, to a "what do you feel about me" text (Here's a playlist I put together) it can mean that she doesn't like, or doesn't know what to do with those types of texts.  Or it could mean that she doesn't feel texting is an appropriate medium for a response and would prefer to discuss face to face.

"I need to be home by 11" could be a way of saying she wants to put some boundaries on your time together because she feels like you're pushing her boundaries, or it could be a very sweet courtesy letting you know in advance that she won't be able to spend as much time with you in advance rather than the night of.  

The thing is... .you don't know.  You want to know, and you think you may be able to figure it out, but YOU DON'T KNOW.  In my opinion there are two good ways to handle this situation and one bad way.  

Good ways -
Ask her for the information you want.  It's probably good to keep in mind that this still may not provide the answer because she may not be straight with you or may evade the question.

Get "okay" with not knowing, at least in the short term.  If you feel like you need the information to take action, maybe it's not time to take action.  Or, maybe you need to reevaluate why you want to take that action.

Example - I really like Neighbor B's kids.  I would like to spend more time with them.  BUT if something of a more romantic nature were to start developing between me and Neighbor B I would not want to be a presence in their lives unless/until things got serious.  I need to do my own work to understand my motives for spending time with his kids (is it primarily because I love kids, or is it caretaking Neighbor B, or a way to establish connection with him, etc).  That's actually more important in determining whether I should be spending time with them or not than whether a potential relationship with Neighbor B might complicate it, but trying to figure out what Neighbor B wants feels easier.  I don't know what Neighbor B's intentions are.  I think he's interested, but he hasn't asked me out.  I feel like I need to know what his intentions are before offering to babysit his kids again.  I can either ask him what his intentions are, wait until it becomes clear from his long term actions (not asking me out in the next month and interaction "cooling off" over the same time frame), or... .

Bad way -
Assume I have "figured him out".  The problem with this is that my reciprocal action would change on a daily, probably hourly, basis as I reinterpret the "evidence".  

Heck, missing sleep because I have been up past midnight playing Words With Friends with Neighbor B every night for a week put me in a sleep deprived "mood" where I decided he totally isn't interested in ANYTHING with me.  Well duh - this guy is up past midnight playing Words With Friends with you.  That's probably an indication that he welcomes the interaction... .Or wait... .Maybe he's just REALLY into Words With Friends.  Or maybe he needs to get his stats up so he can impress other women.  See.  My mind can reinterpret the smallest things in so many different ways.  Meanwhile, Neighbor B is just trying to work up the nerve to ask me out.  Or ask me to watch his kids so he can go out with someone else.  Or he's enjoying this level of connection while waiting for what he feels is a more appropriate time after my divorce for me to be "ready". Or... .

FWIW, I suspect Neighbor B is doing his own "mind reading".  In our past two in person interactions he has brought up his age at least 3 times.  I think he may be trying to gauge my feelings about the age difference.  And, while I have no real problem with it, I am pretty sure that my responses have left him still wondering.  The only ways for him to be sure are to outright ask, or keep hinting at it over a long period of time and see if he can "trend" my responses without letting his mood flavor them.

Next topic - Texting styles.  

My job requires that I have my phone with me at all times.  It's also one that requires travel and all my colleagues live in different states.  This means that I'm very adept at maintaining relationship via text/IM/phone calls.  It's the way I work and play.  I also reflect my personality in my texts.  I always use correct grammar and punctuation.  I generally don't abbreviate anything (I use short phrases for longer words and phrases that I don't want to type each time but want to appear "properly".  But I'm also playful and sprinkle in GIFs and emojis as I see appropriate.  I only text a few people between the hours of 11pm and 7am.  If you're in my circle of closest friends, all hours of the day and night.  

Neighbor B's job requires that all electronics be left in a secured area for the duration of the work day.  He's NOT constantly looking at his phone because he can't.  I've found that he almost never responds to texts before he goes to work, and rarely before he's gotten home, eaten dinner, and settled in for the evening.  When he does respond, he also uses correct grammar, no/few abbreviations, and correct punctuation.  He's not a GIF or emoji guy, but he tends to sprinkle in exclamation points for emphasis.  

I have another friend whose texts require a decoder ring to interpret.  She never capitalizes or punctuates.  Emojis replace and are sometimes inserted in words, but sometimes she'll write out "smile" rather than insert the emoji.  I tend to call her on the phone when I see a text from her.  Our styles are too different and texting will only frustrate me as I try to figure out what she is trying to say.

Next Topic - Fantasy/Fears vs reality

We tend to fill the gaps with fantasy or fears when we don't know someone.  It's natural.  In a healthy relationship we will posit those "gap fillers" as hypotheses, test them over time, and replace with reality as it becomes established.  Those of us who have been in unhealthy relationships can have the tendency to either keep holding onto the fantasy (that's the approach I took with dBPDxh) or listen to the fear and get out of/sabotage the relationship before we can get hurt.  

The best thing I think you can do at this stage of the relationship is to hold your assumptions up against what she has told you/shown you CLEARLY.  Let her be who she is.  That doesn't mean you have to like/stay in relationship with her.  Just try really hard to not act towards her based on your fears/fantasy.  She's told you that she's not into exclusive relationships.  Your fear is that she's seeing other guys and you're just being used for dates.  Your fantasy is that she will fall madly in love with you and you will live happily ever after.  The reality is probably somewhere between those two but, based on what she's told you, it's probably closer to your fear than your fantasy.  I'm not saying you should cut your losses and run, but I think you need to be extra careful not to rely on the fantasy gap fillers that contradict what she has told you.

Sorry for the long post, but I've been thinking a lot about your situation, probably because it hits so closely to mine.

Thanks,
BG

[CryWolf]

Thank you so much BeagleGirl, Once Removed and Turkish. Your words have resonated with me these past few days.

Here is what happened on date 3:


 picked her up from her parents. she came outside with her parents puppy that we talked about before. so cute

then she got in my car and handed me her credit card so she pays all day and she took my wallet. we got to this sunflower farm, and they  only took cash so i insisted to pay. we walked around, held hands and picked flowers. i encouraged her to get some for her mom too.

then we went to the lake, and had a picnic with wine. i made a bunch of food. she was surprised and in awe and grateful. we fed ducks, and talked.

we talked a lot about our relationship styles. I told her i like doing romantic gestures and she said she dislikes some and likes some. she doesnt like goodmorning/night texts. she hates being fed, she hates a lot of it. shes not an affectionate person unless shes in a serious committed relationship.
but she does like how i open doors and chairs for her and how im chivalrous and other things i do.

she also told me how her two exes, she was the one who dumped them and she never had her heart broken. i told her i never broke someones heart. and i joked and said "maybe ill break urs" and she said "no, i dont get nervous around you or any guy i talked to so i can easily talk to anyone and not be bothered" not sure if this was her friendzoning me or what.


we talked about her texting style. she said she doesnt text much because she doesnt feel the need to drag a convo on or force one. she doesnt text anyone consistently. she also said how she is always out and doesnt want to be on her phone just like how she isnt on it with me. and when she gets home shes really tired to do anything and forgets

she kept mentioniing how she loves how I planned everythng and no one does that for her.
we talked about how to handle situations if shes mad in a relationship. how to communicate, etc.

we saw the sunset together. i told her i was going to tag her on my instagram story and she didnt say no.

we joked a lot during the day. and i tried making my intentions clear that i want something more in time and im in no rush.

she doesnt seem to rush anything.

she told me how shes leaving for new york on tuesday and doesnt know when she will be back or if she will ever come back. she got a one way ticket there.

this had me sad for the remainder of the night. we got alcoholic icecream, before i offered to drop flowers at her parents and take her back to the city to meet her friends so she wouldnt uber. she told me how i spoil her unlike other people because i jokingly told her shes spoiled.

car ride back was quiet. we listened to music, i didnt know what to talk about. i was tired as hell and she was about to go out with friends. walked her out the car and she gave me a side hug. not sure if i should be mad or what because it wasnt a full hug. and this might have been the last time we saw each other... .

i did want to kiss her so many times but she seemed anxious and would step away.


i brought up how she had me confused about bringing up other dates and she said "i never really put thought into it" and later in the ngiht about how she gave me a third date when she doesnt really do that. and she said how much she has a fun time with me and the things we do no one does for her.

[CryWolf]

I’m kicking myself over the fact I didn’t kiss her and if this played a factor in any of it. I’m not sure if being too patient is a downfall. I would see her put chapstick all day so I was thinking she was preparing for a kiss. Then when I step closer she would step away a little. So mixed messages.

[Harley Quinn]

she told me how shes leaving for new york on tuesday and doesnt know when she will be back or if she will ever come back. she got a one way ticket there.

Perhaps this is the reason she might have wanted to avoid a kiss.  Maybe she didn't want to hurt you by getting closer then leaving possibly for good.  What do you think?  How are you feeling about this news now that you've had time to think about it?

Overall it sounds like your date went well and there was some good open dialogue, which included the above statement from her.  Did she say anything about wanting to stay in touch whilst she is gone?  What are your thoughts about the potential of this becoming more now?

My inclination is to say that I'd be tempted to view this as practice.  Getting back into the dating world after a dysfunctional r/s can uncover all kinds of things we didn't foresee and I'm wondering if this is a good time to step away and reassess.  If this was the last time you see one another, you can be proud of yourself that you ended things on a good note and showed her a lovely time.  By the sounds of it you've given her enough to go on for her to have a good idea of your intentions and if that proves to be what she is also looking for then she has your number.  Can you be OK with that?

Love and light x

[steelwork]

Crywolf, I've been following your dates. We're here to be honest with and helpful to each other, right? Based on what I'm reading, this young lady has let you know in many ways that she's not available for a serious exclusive relationship. Be honest with yourself: is that what you're looking for--with her or with someone? Are your desires and expectations aligned, or are you hoping to coax her into having the same expectations and outlook as you?

[CryWolf]

Perhaps this is the reason she might have wanted to avoid a kiss.  Maybe she didn't want to hurt you by getting closer then leaving possibly for good.  What do you think?  How are you feeling about this news now that you've had time to think about it?

I thought this too. It made more sense that she became distant towards the end of our date. when i would reach for her hand she would reach back to not reaching back and telling me excuses.

I feel devastated. everything just ends.

Overall it sounds like your date went well and there was some good open dialogue, which included the above statement from her.  Did she say anything about wanting to stay in touch whilst she is gone?  What are your thoughts about the potential of this becoming more now?

I asked her if we were going to keep in touch while she was away, and she said "she will be mostly busy"

and i said thats fine, we can hang out when you come back.

she didnt say anything. On the ride home, we were both a bit quite. i would look at her, and she seemed zoned out. she looked blank and just looked straight ahead...

I actually am open to the idea of her living her life and we hang out and date. not put all my eggs in one basket. I have been so busy with work that she has been the only person Ive been dating while working full time. I havent had time to meet someone new and date around.

If this was the last time you see one another, you can be proud of yourself that you ended things on a good note and showed her a lovely time.  By the sounds of it you've given her enough to go on for her to have a good idea of your intentions and if that proves to be what she is also looking for then she has your number.  Can you be OK with that?

I wanted to play the dates full out and be on the highest level if this were to become serious. I knew if she was or wasnt ready. she seemed confused, and I didnt expect her to fall in love with me or wait for her. I did my best and for her to see what I was willing to give and do. I played my game full out with this girl, as the other girls I was not.

this girl and I had so many similar values, interests, hobbies. we could talk for hours and this last date she just didnt seem all there. maybe i was asking too many serious questions which pushed her and scared her?

i know girls like guys whose feelings are unclear... maybe i showed too much of myself and my intentions?

She always messages me after a date asking if i made it home safe or saying thank you. but she didnt this time. i know she went out with her friends last night, but not even a text today. I know im not entitled. but she did this before and now she didnt.

i messaged her asking if she wanted to get food before her shift at work and i could drop her off at work. she told me "sorry fam, i got plans"

calling someone "fam" is instant friendzone... .I told her "its cool, maybe when you get back" and i sent her a pic i took of her yesterday... i look desperate.

 i dont expect her to respond anymore, and her pulling this back is something im accustomed to by other people i dated. people become cold and distant when they dont anymore association with someone.




 

she's not available for a serious exclusive relationship. Be honest with yourself: is that what you're looking for--with her or with someone? Are your desires and expectations aligned, or are you hoping to coax her into having the same expectations and outlook as you?

yes this is true. I knew she was confused but also wanting to enjoy her single life. i was confused based off the intensity of our dates.

i told her im not in any rush, but wanted her to know my intentions. maybe i shared too much and she got bored.


I know i fell for this girl quick. i know this could be a red flag, and unhealthy. i didnt say this before but on our second date during dinner, she did this little trick with a straw and it looks like a worm. my mom used to do this when i was a very young child. when this girl did that, i instantly went back to my moments of childhood and felt connection and pure happiness. i dont know how this happeend but that moment on the date made me feel so damn happy. it sounds very wierd ...

i dont expect this girl to speak to me again. she seems like she wants a challenge and i stopped playing games and being on and off. i showed her my true colors and told her how i love romantic gestures, etc.

[CryWolf]

I’m sad that after all that I did, and showed her she called me “fam”.

Either she’s playing games now, or she’s upset I didn’t kiss her in my window of opportunity. Or I’m overthinking it. But you don’t call someone fam unless you have no complete feelings for them.

[steelwork]

I’m sad that after all that I did, and showed her she called me “fam”. 

FWIW, Crywolf—I’m not sure she’s calling you “fam” here. I think more likely it was a comma error, and her plans involve her family.

More importantly, though: I would encourage you to step back from all the strategic thinking and gamesmanship—both in terms of what you are attributing to her and what you are attempting. If it’s right, it’s right. Strategy generally doesn’t yeild meaningful results in matters of the heart.

Finally: pay close attention to the significance you took from the gesture that reminded you of your mother. maybe you are projecting some feelings onto this girl that does have so much to do with her.

[once removed]

shes a girl not interested in an exclusive relationship. shes a girl that generally only goes on two dates or less. shes a girl with her life ahead of her, interested in what it will bring, and looking forward to new york. very independent and far from interested in being tied down.

crywolf i think her actions and her words have told you this every step of the way.

i think in this last date you told her you wanted more. i think she read that and responded respectfully, to you, and to herself. she dialed it back because thats not what she wants and doesnt want to signal to a guy that wants more, that she does.

and yes, i think you responded to that by chasing and over pursuing.

my advice might be to write her a short note. that you had a blast getting to know her and hang out with her. that shes sexy and cool (or whatever). that you hope she has a blast in new york and hope that if she comes back around, that she will keep you in mind.

i wouldnt count on her doing so, at all, and id let go of it there.

you showed a cool gal a good time and she went on three dates with you, which she doesnt normally do. theres a lot to be proud of. this always had a low ceiling, and yes it sucks to be into a girl and have her leave town. it happens, and it will happen again, but it sucks.

theres a lot to be proud of. hang in there.

[CryWolf]

my advice might be to write her a short note. that you had a blast getting to know her and hang out with her. that shes sexy and cool (or whatever). that you hope she has a blast in new york and hope that if she comes back around, that she will keep you in mind.

i wouldnt count on her doing so, at all, and id let go of it there.

do you really think i should send another message? it wouldnt come off as needy after she didnt respond yesterday?


A lot of red flags I overlooked:
-she loves drugs and doing any type of drug no matter what time of day. everytime hung out together she was either high or got high.

-she loves talking about how other guys want her or other dates with other guys

-she compared me to other guys of my similar race, second date she said how im not like any guy she dated before...
and third date she said "we are all alike" -- huge crush to my self esteem.

-she made herself seem to be unobtainable and how she doesnt fall for anyone and how she breaks hearts

-she told me some things on the first date and when i brought it up, she said she never said that and if she did it was because it was the first date and she didnt want to come off as a bad person.

-when i tried holding her hand in the car, she told i need better moves, i said "i dont play games" and she said "everyone plays games". i asked her what game shes putting on me as a joke and she said "i cant tell you'

-she asked what my name was on the second date during dinner... .

-she is very insecure of her image, and whenever we talk about anything with how something makes us feel she would quickly change subject.  or zone out.

[steelwork]

Maybe now is a time for you to review what it was that drew you to this person so strongly--given all the "red flags" (a term I've come to dislike very much) that you list. Maybe you can work on identifying the qualities in that golden triangle of "I am attracted to her; she's good for me; she's available to me."

[Cromwell]

i dont expect this girl to speak to me again. she seems like she wants a challenge and i stopped playing games and being on and off. i showed her my true colors and told her how i love romantic gestures, etc.

Hi Crywolf,

Once you reach between date 3 and 5, each side by that point has figured out enough if there is something more. The only thing id like to say is that, do not feel you did the wrong thing by showing your true colours ie, being yourself (what else can you be?), however, once it gets to a stage during a date where things are not going the way youd like them to, I try to think of how to end the date as soon as possible - it helps to date more than one girl so you dont become fixated on just one it makes it easier to avoid disappointment as you have others scheduled in.

[once removed]

do you really think i should send another message? it wouldnt come off as needy after she didnt respond yesterday?

its one idea. im not telling you to do it. ending things on a sweet "have fun" note is just a good gesture that might help her remember you fondly and possibly think of you if she comes back. its no pressure, it wishes her well, it lets her go.

A lot of red flags I overlooked:

im gonna be blunt here CW. you do this every time. things dont work out (this was foreseeable) and suddenly, the girl in question is all red flags. ive done it myself, its a temporary bandaid on a broken heart and misses the lessons. 

but it also raises two critical points and id encourage you to engage the exercise steelwork raised:

1. why rush into something, invest so much, and put your heart on the line with a person you have so many objections to, or even one you just dont click with?

2. members have repeatedly encouraged you to consider (inventory) what you liked about this girl. to approach dating from that perspective rather than whether youre doing everything "right" and passing all her "tests".

what do you think?

[CryWolf]

The only thing id like to say is that, do not feel you did the wrong thing by showing your true colours ie, being yourself (what else can you be?)

I did this because I didnt want to do the whole push/pull with this girl. When i say we have so many values, goals, similarities in common its crazy. I felt like I could be myself around her, and whenever I held back or had to fabricate I ended up getting upset at myself for not showing her who I really am.

I knew she wasnt ready for anything serious, and i continuously let her know im not in a rush. I just wanted her to know what my intentions are and im not a player like she asked if I am. she seemed nervous a lot of times. one moment shes very open with body language and words, then she's not and pulls away. Texting goes hot and cold. I felt if I showed her who I am, without games it would allow her to be more open being around me.

She continuously values me, and then takes it back a bit by comparing me to other guys. its either "youre different" or "youre similar"... and having this "idc" attitude about everything. Im not saying I know her or can read her but after a while I felt she put on this huge front about how she never had her heartbroken, and shes so cold and heartless like she told me since day 1.

when I tease her, she become insecure and asks "is that what you really think?" and i reassure her saying "no i was just teasing you, did i offend you?" she would say "no i dont get offended"...

I never told her directly I liked her, but i told her "i dont really plan out like this unless like someone i like" and she even was appreciate of me planning.

we talked about future plans, double dates, etc. then at the end of the night we both were quiet. im not sure if it was because weed/wine played a role in this or not. maybe i am being anxious and overthinking it like i did the first date. we both said how we are in relationships, and how we both are clingy. how she is the most loyal person in a relationship. but later on she says how everything ends when talking about relationships.

but yes, timing is terrible right now. she is leaving and probably never coming back. she was in two back to back relationships so now she wants freedom. I came at the wrong time.

I am trying not to blame myself. but its hard.

but it also raises two critical points and id encourage you to engage the exercise steelwork raised:

1. why rush into something, invest so much, and put your heart on the line with a person you have so many objections to, or even one you just dont click with?

2. members have repeatedly encouraged you to consider (inventory) what you liked about this girl. to approach dating from that perspective rather than whether youre doing everything "right" and passing all her "tests".

what do you think?

I honestly dont know how to answer this right now. I was so obsessed with her liking me, that i never ask myself why should i like her? i dont know. :/

[once removed]

I honestly dont know how to answer this right now. I was so obsessed with her liking me, that i never ask myself why should i like her? i dont know. :/

you dont have to answer it right now. by all means, right now it would probably be a terrible exercise. the point is that its a stronger and more confident (but most of all more successful) approach to dating when you meet someone. things you dont like are worth evaluating too, not necessarily hyper vigilant about, but mindful.

for example, lots of twenty somethings experiment with drugs. thats, if not normal, pretty common. i dont know that somebody getting high on a date is necessarily a winner long term, though. you raised it early on. it doesnt sound like its something you were comfortable with. if we are more focused with someone liking us, we lose sight of those things.

but yes, timing is terrible right now. she is leaving and probably never coming back. she was in two back to back relationships so now she wants freedom. I came at the wrong time.

it would drive me nuts with a girl i was crazy about. its a gut puncher.

i dont know that i look at it as you coming at the wrong time. you showed her a good time. you had a good time. you impressed her with the chivalry. you didnt chase her away. all in all, you did pretty well, things went pretty well.

it seems to me, that sort of light, low or non commitment and having fun is precisely the way to go. this whole experience tells me that there may be some more experience to be gained, some lessons to learn, some more practice to be had before a long term, serious, committed relationship.

regardless, having things end sucks CryWolf. i say that as someone with higher than average abandonment fears. the silver lining, if there is one, is that like anything, it gets easier as we do more of it. there will be many more like this CryWolf, some better, some worse.

[CryWolf]

This thread is coming to an end, so I will include a link to part 3. thank you for all the help 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327403.new#new