Hope,

I can relate to blow-ups at family gatherings!  It's a shame, as it seems impossible to experience a family gathering with my diagnosed stepdaughter, without some sort of blow-up.

What I've observed includes the following:
*Untreated BPD involves an extremely short fuse.  Almost anything can set it off.
*Difficulties in other aspects of a person's life--with friends, schooling, homelife, love life, work, etc.--can "prime" a person with BPD.  When "primed," an innocuous comment or body language can set them off.  The bad feelings, disappointments or frustrations materialize, seemingly out of nowhere.  They were just simmering underneath the whole time.  Maybe they emerge as projections!
*Untreated BPD comes with low tolerance--of others, of frustration, of boredom, of stress, etc.
*BPD involves a trauma-like response to ordinary stresses.  By trauma-like response, I mean a fight-or-flight response to an annoyance.  So if somebody asks her to please straighten up her bathroom because guests are coming, or to refrain from snacking on an ingredient reserved for a special recipe, she'll have a tantrum or isolate in protest, because she's accustomed to doing what she wants whenever she wants, and she resents being asked to do something she doesn't want to do, especially if the "guests" seem to be more important than she is.

Family gatherings are so tough, because they are outside of the routine, and they involve people who are important from an emotional point of view.  Thus the emotional stakes are high with family gatherings.  My diagnosed stepdaughter will struggle with any of the following:
*Not being able to entertain herself with screens as much as she wants during family events.
*Seeing others be joyful.  She feels bad, and she can't bear to be happy for others.
*Mixing with others with whom she's had blow-outs in the past.  She blames them, and they are the enemy; she deems many family members as traumatizers or "abusers."
*Feeling that others are judging her.  Questions like, "How is college going?" or "How's your summer job?" are perilous, either because she's quit and feels shame, or she feels that others are judging her negatively.
*Comparing herself to cousins/siblings.  She sees herself in a negative light, even if nobody else does.  If her cousins/siblings talk about achievements (a new job, a new romantic interest, graduation), she feels inferior by comparison and is prone to blow up or leave the scene.
*Tolerating small talk with older folks.  They are just too boring.
*Partaking in conversations.  She will only give one-word responses to direct questions, and can't seem to engage in or hold a conversation.
*Not being the center of attention.

So yeah, I wouldn't go on a vacation with my diagnosed stepdaughter.  She can't handle a morning or afternoon with family yet, she's just not ready.  A whole vacation would be a pressure cooker. 

Can you identify the triggers?  I think I've identified major ones in my lists above.  But can you avoid them?  I don't think it's possible.  Avoiding stress is impossible in the real world.  Maybe it could be avoided for an hour or two, if everyone is on their very best behavior and treats the person with BPD with kid gloves, but that's not a realistic scenario for most families.  At some point the person with BPD needs to develop some emotional intelligence and resilience.  That seems challenging if untreated and still in the blaming-and-hating-everyone-else phase.

How does he communicate these things to you:


text? phone call? email? in person? other?


Are you telling yourself that those things don't hurt you and just reflect on his character? Or are you telling him?

How do you know that when you don't respond, he gets mad?

...

It doesn't sound to me like he's in a place where he can really hear or process anything you communicate, especially about emotional topics.

Given that you're ready to be done with the relationship, I guess I don't see a downside to not engaging with anything he says?

I.e., maybe it isn't your job to deescalate conversations any more... maybe you get to not even engage at all?

Even on the "Bettering a relationship" board, we don't recommend or advise members to keep engaging when their partner uses abusive language. That isn't a time for validation -- it's a time for protecting yourself through boundaries.

Much more so here, when you are unwinding the relationship. It was never your job (or within your power) to make him feel better or make him understand... so much less so now.

...

I am assuming the two of you are no longer in physical contact or proximity any more?

Thanks for that OnceRemoved. Yes indeed, one should be careful about that trope of 'if you ask yourself if you are the BPD/NPD then you aren't'. And narcissism is thrown around a whole lot these days, so much that it is losing it's meaning.

And yes, I (I'll speak for myself here) absolutely, 100% allowed things that I should not have. And therefore that is my responsibility. And I should seek to understand why I was like that. Luckily, I wasn't accused of being abusive or a narcissist by my ex...but still I wanted to ask my therapist about it. In the end, for me, it was attachment issues and the sexual abuse in my childhood that contributed to me not be able to properly set boundaries, being afraid of losing her, etc.

BT400...I was in the same place, I wanted to help her and make her life better for her, and yes...it made me feel good to do that for her. She seemed so fragile and vulnerable. I'm still working through how much of that feeling good to support her and love her is codependency. I think to myself that when you love somebody you want to support them and make them feel safe.

I called and checked on the report. The main hotline just said what I already knew, which was that it got "assigned" to a local branch. They gave me the local branch number. I haven't called that one yet.

The main hotline did take my concerns about there being a new adult male around. They said that if it were a new report, it might not rise to the level of actionable, but because there is an existing report, it is good information to add. I was kind of freaked out that they would call up Mom and say "So by the way, do you have a boyfriend", so I tried to make it clear to them that if they contacted her with that kind of question, she might know that (because H and I only saw this guy for the first time at SD16's event) H and I were involved in additional reporting. They seemed to get it but we'll see how it shakes out. At least, I guess, now that the cat's out of the bag that I made the first report, I could plead total ignorance about anything else: "I have no idea what you mean, they're the ones investigating, maybe they decided to ask more questions".

I also tried to be super clear that we do not know if he lives in or goes to the home, that I did not see him do or say anything while interacting with the kids that was at all concerning (he really did not interact with the kids at all), and that it wasn't clear to me that he was a romantic interest (though my H thought he might be).


Maybe... I think it'd have to be a really light touch. She may be sensitive to info-seeking right now and/or may have a sense of "don't say anything else". We'll see. We're together tomorrow and then not for ~1.5 weeks. She has talked with me in the past about school friends and dynamics, but I don't think she's ever come out and said anything to me about Stepdad's girlfriend, and she knows I know about that. SD16 I think will also kind of breezily lie about intense stuff if she doesn't want to bring it up, so I don't want to push her into that corner.

That's it in a nutshell. Why either of them would suddenly exercise good judgment in the middle of a high-stress situation... that's on me for thinking that.



Not sure if I mentioned this earlier. The kids were pretty open (both to H and I, and on the CPS call) about the fact that things started getting bad when Stepdad started pursuing his girlfriend (apparently she was Mom's best friend at the time) and trying to convince Mom that the three of them could do a polyamory thing. All Stepdad had to do was to convince Mom that Mom should date her best friend, and voila, it would work. The kids said Mom maybe tried, but was not interested in dating Girlfriend. So Stepdad's image of himself as omnipotent leader ("I have what it takes to convince everyone around me to do XYZ, and if they agree to do XYZ, then I get to do what I want and also look like a great guy") was damaged.

I worry that both of them are so detached from reality and so wrapped up in desperately trying to meet emotional/image needs (Mom -- not to be abandoned, Stepdad -- to preserve his image of The Dad Who Doesn't Leave The Family, Unlike Others) that they are doing bizarre and unsafe (for the kids) things to meet those needs.

I appreciate you sharing your experience. It seems like it’s all a crapshoot with these personalities.

I’ll check it out. Thank you!!!

SD18 has had her phone off for most of the trip (she did call last week and sounded happy, which was good). I hope that at some level, that means she feels free not to manage things from afar.


H and I talked with our MC last night and he is concerned about Stepdad's behavior -- wondering if it is breaking with reality / on the border of psychosis (the rages in the car followed by tearful apologies).

I'm worried too that both Mom and Stepdad might be functioning so poorly. Yes, it means they aren't able to team up to overtly alienate, but I'm starting to get concerned that we're at the top of a downward slope and things are speeding up? I don't know that for sure though.

Insightful post. Thank you.

Agreed that just b/c I’m open to wondering if NPD or other personality disorder traits are part of who I am—that this is not a clear answer that I don’t have these traits. And definitely agreed that I have my part in ending up with a romantic partner that has these challenging personality traits. I’ve come to realize my part in things and have done a lot of work on myself. I left her over 10 years ago so it’s been a journey. Because I have a child with her it allows her to keep seeking fuel. Which is exhausting and hurtful at times and a major Mind F at tines. And yep, narcissism is thrown around all the time these days and incorrectly so.

B/c of my own issues, I found this person alluring for a reason and participated and am responsible for my part. It doesn’t mean I’m deserving of how I was treated or continue to be treated. But I have to be honest and take responsibility for my part for committing to e relationship with her and having a child.

For me, I was not in a healthy place when I engaged in the relationship. I’ve had self esteem issues,, insecurities, feeling less than, co dependency stuff. Not healthy things for a romantic relationship or having healthy intimacy. Or daily living. And it felt good, selfishly, to help someone I thought needed it. That’s on me. And it made me a good target for her too. And my partner played the damsel in distress really well too. Not a healthy mix. And I played a part.

“Rescuing” someone can be indicative of narcissistic traits or at least some similar/overlapping. I don’t believe that I am narcissistic and have been told by professionals that I’m not. But it doesn’t mean that I haven’t had unhealthy traits or even narcissistic qualities. There were reasons why we were attracted to each other.

From my end, I have done a ton of work on myself over the last 10 years and especially over the last 5 years. I have gained a ton of awareness and practicing being healthier spiritually, emotionally, mentally, and physically. And I’ve learned to love myself and feel worthy and to seek healthy qualities in myself and my relationships. I don’t damaged. I seek healthy and am worthy of it.. And thank goodness for that. And I am grateful for it. .

It does suck to still have to deal with this person and their traits and their constant lashing out. It’s hard at times. But I can practice acceptance, forgiveness, and detached love and work on those daily.

gaherna3, what a series of blows, my heart goes out to you. Know that you deserve to be treated so much better than this.

Not all people can show up and fulfill the baseline duties of a parent. We grieve for them -- this is not the natural order of things. But your daughter has one parent who can show up for her. It's you. Even with all you've been through you are thinking of her and how she will feel.

She is your priority now. In her own way, mom has shown she has the ability to get the resources she needs, whether it's someone other than you or hospital services. It's a dire situation because she is not emotionally capable of caring for herself and that makes her unfit to properly care for your daughter.

Someone said to me that my job was to keep my son safe. It helped me manage the guilt of caring for then leaving the broken man who was his father. Many of us try to take care of child and BPD partner and often this is just not possible. It is one or the other, not both.