I read an interesting comment that seems relevant to the subject.

It is said that when we communicate it is only 7% verbal, with the rest made up of body language and tone of voice.
It kind of makes sense really, we have all at some point asked a loved one if they are ok, for them to respond that they are, yet we can pick up by their tone or body language that they are not.

With that in mind, as I said earlier and Me88 also experience, when we try to apologise to a pwBPD it is like banging our heads on a brick wall, because of their heightened sense of abandonment and being wronged. It will then, or in my case at least, lead to the point where our apologies are made with a frustrated tone of voice, because we are repeatedly apologising and getting more and more frustrated that our words are not getting through.

This is when the pwBPD picks up on that tone of voice, and because it is becoming more and more fractious, believe your words don’t match your tone of voice or body language, so your words are less likely to be how you truly feel.

I don’t think it’s that uncommon for a pwBPD to believe they are an empath, and have a heightened perception of peoples feelings which, personally, I feel only adds to their confusion and the black and white thinking when it comes to you trying to rationalise with them.

You often hear people say text messaging can be difficult because things can easily be taken out of context because there is no tone or body language in a text message, and that is kind of what it feels like when trying to have a conversation when they are dysregulated. On the other hand I’d often think I wished I could only communicate with her in text as that would give me opportunity to try and make sure I didn’t put one word out of place and she couldn’t use her perception of my body language or tone of voice against me.

2 months ago, my then-live in partner X (undiagnosed, both they and I have recognised they strongly fit BPD criteria) cheated on me by having sex with someone else while I had a reasonable expectation of a monogamous relationship. X has since denied that their actions constituted cheating.

We had been live in monogamous partners for a year. Two weeks before, X had told me they did not want to have any kind of romantic relationship, friendship or connection with me going forward. However, shortly after that (within hours/ days) we returned to living as a couple - cuddling and sleeping together, cooking and eating, having sex at his initiation. X had previously verbally ended our relationship at least 4x, then went back to living together as if nothing had happened within minutes/ hours. We considered ourselves partners for the duration, and X later had no recollection of these 'breakups'.

For me, fidelity means being accountable to the mutually understood commitments within a relationship. If your partner has a reasonable expectation that you are monogamous, then it's up to you to communicate clearly that this has changed before you violate that expectation. Given that X's actions looked like a continuation of our established partnership, and that the words used to 'undo' that had been revoked or undermined by his actions, I believe X's behaviour did not meet the requirements of fidelity or integrity.

X has oscillated on this. At first, he claimed he had done nothing wrong and that we were broken up. However, he also expressed extreme guilt for having kept me up worrying about him, to the extent that he spent an entire day aimlessly wandering without eating (while continuing to assert that he had not cheated).

Later, when I said to him I thought his actions were in fact a sexual violation that could reasonably be called cheating, he nodded and said 'sorry'. He seemed so ashamed he could not even raise his head.

X's previous live-in relationship ended due to his having an affair. X has expressed extreme guilt about this, saying it took a long time to realise he was not a 'bad person'.

A couple of weeks after, X suddenly decided that we were not in a relationship - not by breaking up, but by claiming we were already broken up. This wasn't true - after the fiasco, I'd made sure to define verbally and explicitly that we were in a relationship, and X had promised that he wasn't going to do it (the cheating) again. While claiming this (that we were broken up), X made statements that were internally inconsistent/ incoherent.

He also expressed anger with me for ruining his day by 'talking endlessly' and 'making him have a PLEASE READ time' and 'feel bad' (the day after I learned about the cheating... during which I also took him out for pancakes, ). I found it extremely painful and by certain definitions, abusive, to first have my trust violated, then be denigrated for having a normal emotional reaction to that.

X has also claimed that I/ our relationship makes him feel 'guilty for existing'. I pointed out that during a previous suicidal episode, he had claimed someone else made him feel 'guilty for existing'. I said while my actions have been PLEASE READed and unkind at times, his mental health spirals are not totally attributable to others. I also offered financial/ logistical support in getting mental health support if he needed it and have repeatedly done this during the relationship.

X told me that I need to invent a story about his mental health because I can't deal with the guilt of being cruel to him. Explaining the context is difficult. a typical example would be brushing him off/ expressing frustration/ annoyance when he asks for computer help late at night, and doing this often over a 2-3 month period. i know dismissiveness and frustration can be very painful and destructive to someone who cares for you, and I believe my actions meet that threshhold. I am deeply sorry for this and have expressed that to X.

But on reflection, I don't believe my actions rise to the threshhold of cruelty. These are normal, albeit challenging, experiences that arise over the course of a relationship. 

I wonder if what may be happening is that X is deeply shamed by having violated his own values. Rather than dealing with this, he is projecting onto me.

At other times, X has shown great courage and integrity but shown little self compassion and strong self hatred, including suicidal ideation expressed to me on >100 occasions. It feels like that is now being projected outwards.

Intellectually, I understand that X is not being accountable to reality and there is nothing I can do to make this happen. But emotionally, I have relied on X's perspective for a long time, and they have shown a lot of wisdom that has helped me. It's really hard to bridge the cognitive dissonance between the person I have known and the person who exists now. The facts tell me one thing, and my feelings tell me another.

As a result, I have been experiencing severe anxiety including involuntary muscle spasms.

There is a sense of strong fear about an unstable reality. It's not that I doubt any particular elements of what has happened - in fact, the more I think about the facts and set them out in an attempted objective way, the clearer it becomes that there isn't much doubt. It's more a generalised sense of everything is wrong or nothing is stable or even that I (the person) am wrong in some existential, unspecified sense. 

Does anyone have tips on how to deal with this? I already meditate though not regularly enough.

I've been with my partner 8 years he's undiagnosed but is undergoing assessments (so he tells me - not sure what to believe as he's promised before to seek help and didn't follow it up)  for a variety of things (he's been having weekly/2 weekly appointments with mental health team since before Xmas.

I feel like the last 8 years have consisted of constant cycles of huge blow ups (adult toddler tantrums) then a period of calm ground zero where things are okay again and then round and round we go.  It used to be when it was good it was really good - but now even then its not great.

Birthdays, Christmas , holidays are all spoiled.  He's regularly verbally abusive to me (I've asked him not to call me a c**t til I'm blue in the face but its his favourite word for me - his answer "if you don't want to be called one don't be one)

I've recently attended a domestic violence support group which was met with complete contempt - he calls it my "club" and that we all sit around smugly about how we're "survivors" - he says I'm not abused (I can categorically say he is an abuser mostly verbal sometimes physical)

Every argument is me causing a scene , me orchestrating it, me wasting hours arguing - when it's the opposite- its him!

He escalates everything shouting and intimidating.  I'm at the end of my tether . 

We've just come back from a group holiday which he nearly didnt go on , threatening to cut his passport up and chucking the contents of his bag all over the floor minutes before we needed to leave.  He felt the holiday went well- he was moody snappy, sometimes okay , sometimes not - lying in bed til nearly 11am every day- making everyone wait for him (this is common for him he's made an art form of being 5 minutes late for everything.  Sunday night he just went on and on (drunk - he's a big drinker) so I asked him to go which he finally has.  I need a break.

I'm getting text after text blaming me or that I'm blaming him, total victim complex.  He loves emojis - I'm a clown, a rat, all my friends sit around smugly talking about him (I try not to bring him up to be honest)

Recently I've lost a lot of weight and have started putting myself first more- this has been a massive trigger for him.

I don't know what I'm looking for - other than venting , but I do have a question for anyone who knows the process in the UK , is what he describes (weekly assessments over a few weeks ) typical ?  I think they are also assessing for bipolar and other things .

Help !

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I agree with I'm so confused. When I try to validate my daughters feelings when she is upset with me it's never enough and she finds a way to twist my words to continue to blame and rage at me.

Hello and grateful to find this place,

My 29 year old daughter was diasgnosed with BPD in her early 20's.  As a child she had a very low frustration tolerance and began experiencing anxiety around 10 years old.  She started cutting herself in her mid teens, which started after her boyfriend left her.  She is the oldest and her dad was very hard on her as a child.  We had different parenting styles and I was also struggling with my own mental health issues.  My youngest was born very ill and took a lot of my attention away from the two older girls.  It was stressful and my marriage suffered as a result and that was difficult for all of us.  Fast forward and my daughter wBPD is married and out of the house now but a recent medical crisis with my husband has created absolute chaos for me especially as the mom.  I had reached out to let her know about her dad and asked for her help.  She said she couldn't help and blamed me for frustrating her. She said I could have asked someone else instead of her. I apologized and said it was fine. My middle adult child who has OCD and narcisstic traits was verbally and emotionally abusive towards me during this crisis so I decided to set a boundary and told them that we would not be hosting Christmas. My dwBPD was so upset with me and told me that in order for her to continue having a relationship with me I woud have to acknowledge her pain and suffering as result of my boundary.  When I said we could talk but it had to be about understanding not blame and that we could meet in person she refused and told me she would wait for me to change my mind and have the converation in person and that I didn't care about her because I was not willing to have the discussion over the phone.  Eventually I agreed to a phone call and it went poorly.  She was yelling at me telling me I was selfish and had no remorse.  That I should have removed myself from Christmas and they could have had it without me.  Or I should have dealt with my other daughter after Christmas.  I told her I was so distressed and was having heart palpitations and had to have an echocardiogram and she didn't even respond to that.  My boundary she said was a punishment and she started to scream and rage and told me to shut up.  Yesterday she met with my husband to pick up her Christmas gifts and she shared with him that she was pregnant. My heart was broken because that should have been a special moment for me too.  I feel so hurt that I can't enjoy the fact that my daughter is pregnant and I am afraid to even talk to her because nothing I say matters and I am the villain. My husband is also concerned but they still talk to him but not me and he is staying neutral with them, which leaves me carrying the emotional burden.  I am tired of being blamed for being human and having my boundary disregarded. My health is now being affected and I feel like I have no choice but to limit my contact with her.  Either way it's painful for me whether I talk to her or not. I don't know how to move forward with confidence in what I need to do to take care of myself without feeling guilty or being a bad mom.

I agree that an affair would be a problem and that kids would pick up on it but I meant - in my experience - when there was already issues- relatively if we were swimming in drama it would add another bucket of water to it, more drama rather than be the drama.  We were oblivious to her circle of friends and what they did.

What we were focused on was whether or not she was in a bad mood. We were afraid of her.

I think the reason Max’s wife is asking Max to agree to this is so she can avoid blame and shame. She could sneak out and have an affair but I think she knows that is wrong. What she wants from him is to discount monogamy and agree to an open marriage because that would make it OK. It’s more than permission - it’s absolving her. That also doesn’t mean she’d not react if he had an affair, but if he did - he couldn’t blame her for one.

I think she know that sneaking off and cheating is wrong. In her mind, agreeing to an open marriage makes it not cheating. Like seeking a loophole in the rule.

Hey, pwBPD always have this thing of pointing fingers, but we don't have to point fingers to solve a problem, and if a couple is united as a team, then that would not even make sense. So when my wife talks about blame, I tell her it does not matter, because we aren't supposed to be in a competition.

The fact that you triggered a reaction in them doesn't make you faulty. It could be about their interpretation of your body language, your eyebrow angle. But it is their choice on how they react to that trigger.

Honestly, I feel 100% non-faulty, and I have zero guilt. I'm not stating that I'm perfect. I know a few of my shortcomings, and knowledge on BPD can always help me to improve the interaction. But I'm completely sure that 100% of my wife's outbursts are to blame on the BPD.

One reason for that is that she is my 4th long-term partner, but each individual partner had their own different complaints. I can't think of a complaint or a trigger that is shared between two different of my wives. One acted out as if I wanted to cheat on her, even though I never did in the 10+ years of the relationship. The other one wasn't too jealous of other women but was of her stepdaughters. The current one loves her stepdaughters but says she is controlled, which none of the previous ones said. In other words, it is about them, not about me.

As it extended for hours, I realized that I never quite grasp the part where I supposedly triggered the reaction.  It’s like things have exploded and are on fire and I’m told I’m the one with the matches and I don’t remember lighting them. 

I know that’s not what gaslighting comes from, but every time I’m told I’m the one who started it, I feel like I’m not 100% to blame, but always feel like maybe I’m just a terrible person. 

The law of averages would seem to say that sometimes I’m not 100% at fault. 

I see.

Well, my takeaway from having been married to a likely pwBPD and a later relationship with someone who had different but also possible strong BPD-traits is that I need to be more guarded against behaving like "they" do, so I if I find myself thinking of a way to get something indirectly, I try to re-phrase it so I'm asking directly.  I don't want to think that they rubbed off on me! 

I suppose you should just say "It bothers me that your ex is around here as much as he is," and then propose what you think is fair and how you two together could make that happen.  Dragging your ex- into the equation is, if not triangulation, then definitely a bit manipulative.