The court's first steps - after making an initial temp order on custody, parenting schedule and other basics - will be to order parenting classes and attempts for mediation.  I emphasize attempts because success in mediation is not required, it seems relatively few here ever succeeded to settle in mediation.  Evidently the disordered ex is typically too new to the legal scenario and too entitled to listen to reason or be reasonable.

Settlement usually comes much later in the process, often just before a major hearing.  (Mine was on the proverbial court house steps just before a scheduled day-long trial.)

The financial issues are typically finalized at the tail end of a divorce.  Mine were done in what felt like 15 minutes... after grinding through a two year process.  The lawyers were in a hurry to wrap it up and skated over issues that hadn't been addressed that entire time.

Let me walk back to that first paragraph.  Beware of a lawyer's tendency to breeze through the temp order hearing as though it was no big deal.  Often it is scheduled to be brief, perhaps a half hour.  The judge won't be aware of the deep issues between the parents and just accept a simple "standard" order.  Ensure your lawyer knows the serious care and support needs of your son and how to emphasize it to the judge.  I recall when my lawyer turned to me and whispered, "Shh, we'll fix it later."  My divorce took two excruciating years and the order wasn't modified (fixed) until the final decree.  If at all possible, do your best to get the "least bad" temp order since our cases tend to take longer than most others.

Hello and welcome to the family!

Five years is a long time to be in such a difficult relationship- I'm so sorry you're struggling but you've come to the right place.  You're among friends here.

Is your partner diagnosed with BPD, or it is just a suspicion?  Also, you mentioned therapy- was that couples therapy?  Or perhaps you or your partner was working with a therapist.  Please try to give us a little more of a picture on what you've tried.

To answer your question, when is it time to go, that's a personal decision and nobody here can tell you what to do.  I did see that you posted in the "bettering" forum where you'll get advice on improving your relationship.  Is that what you want? 

Just let us know and I'd love to hear a little more of your story, what's happened, etc.

Borderline was likely to be renamed due to it being an emotional dysregulation disorder (or something like that, as I recall) but the updated DSM 5 didn't include such a change.

What I will point out is that people on the periphery of contact with a person with BPD traits (pwBPD) or just occasional contact may notice something "off" but not greatly impacted.  But the closer the relationship, the more impacting it is.

It is often remarked that they have an outsized fear of abandonment.  Ponder that they can anticipate abandonment and unconsciously "jump the gun" and abandon (drive others away by their actions and reactions) before they can be abandoned.  Sort of, a self-fulfilling fear.

Of course, you as one of her parents are experiencing a larger dose of her angst.  Her friends can leave and move on, but a parent will always be a parent.

From another angle... Can I ask how old she was when you divorced?  Was your ex high conflict, possibly also acting-out disordered?  If you were never informed of a diagnosis, did you not have joint custody?  With joint custody - regardless of how the parenting schedules split parenting time - both parents should have been informed of a minor's status.  I am wondering the extent of her mother's environment might have been an aggravating factor.

I've tried everything.  wondering after five years of verbal and mental abuse. numerous sessions of theraphy..when is it just time too go?

Dee, I’m really sorry you’re in this much pain. Reading your post, I can feel how exhausted and torn up you are.

That constant blocking, breaking up, coming back, loving you intensely, then turning on you - that kind of push and pull really messes with your head and your heart. It makes you cling harder because you’re always bracing for the next loss.

I hear how much you’re blaming yourself. But this didn’t end because of one bad night or one comment. The relationship had been unstable and painful for a long time.

Right now it probably feels unbearable and urgent, like you need to know if she’s coming back. That feeling is real. But the bigger question might be whether this cycle would ever truly change.

You’re not weak for loving her. You’re hurting. Try to put your energy into getting steady again. Therapy sounds like a really good next step.

Hi all, this is my first post here and I am sorry that it is a long one. I was in a same sex relationship with a woman for the last two years. We were friends for 1 year before that.

When I met her I was in a long term 10 year relationship and for reasons other than (but also including my increasing attachment to this woman), I broke up the relationship. This woman, let's call her J has been straight all her life, she and I are both 47. She has only had two boyfriends in her life, one is her younger years (teens) and she thought she would marry him but they broke up and it shattered her. She married a man she wasn't emotionally attached to and had a child with him but she broke up with him and took her child with her to Australia. She spent the next 10 years raising her child and did not have a relationship during this time. However, five years in, she did form a close 'friendship' with another female and I guess they were emotionally attached , whatever it was she made it sound like there was no romantic connection there but it was a weird emeshment and she felt like the other woman was 'controlling' her or making her do things for her. She eventually blocked her 'best friend (?) at that time and didn't look back.

Covid hit and there was a bit of a lockdown period. She reached out to me as we work in the same organisation and were from the same country and we connected. Our connection grew, although she was a little strange at first I thought, where she would block me, or get very posessive and fight with me if I spoke to her friends. I thought it strange for a nearly 45 year old woman at that time. In any case I got very attached to her, she made me feel very important to her, and valued. I took her blocking me and unblocking me (not very frequently) when she got upset as a sign that I actually mattered and she didn't know how to deal with her emotions. Eventually I broke up with my partner of 10 years (for other reasons but she was certainly one of it). We had not spoken about our feelings for each other at the time but a little while after the break up we did. She gave me hell before actually being with me, questioning my character, being very defensive and pulling away hard at times. I nearly gave up but she then came towards me and we were 'together'. I was her first romantic relationship with a woman and she was very attached to me but from the beginning she would have these jealous / possessive rages that frightened me and gave me anxiety. I used to chase her right at the start and get very distressed when she blocked me and her eyes would turn black sometimes , or she would accuse me of the wildest things. But I was barely functioning when I could not talk to her but then she would come back even when i thought she wouldn't. There was at least a weekly or twice weekly blocking of me over something or other. She would accuse me of certain things that were not true, including being hysterical when I went to walk the dogs without my phone and she thinks i have abandoned her or I was lying about my whereabouts (she was in my apartment and asleep .. I even had my dogs with me). She was wild and escaped my apartment and things like that. She would get out of a moving car when fighting with me. She would verbally rage at me and call me all sorts of names - eventually I got very worn down and anxiety ridden - once she left me for five weeks because I said that her wanting to know the name of every single person I had chatted to on my phone was a little 'controlling'. She hung up and I couldn't reach her and I was in distress for five weeks until she finally came back. This is the short of it, she would freak out when I was overseas, break up with me over and over again. I am on anti anxiety medication because of this .

One day she was threatening to leave me yet again (over a silly argument over a game - we are 46 years old at this time) and I became uncharacteristically distressed and tried to stop her from leaving and in my distress I hit her (not hard) on the arm and said some terrible things! I am so ashamed of it but she said she doesn't want to think about it and wanted to be with me (complete whiplash). I eventually got used to her leaving because she would then usually come back within the week when she wanted to spend time with me on the weekends.

However there were a couple of significant incidents last year that became physical. She was frustrated at an argument we were having and started hurling herself against my apartment wall telling me that this was how I drove my ex crazy. I have an trauma from an ex partner that did this and ended up in hospital because I was trying to break up with her. I freaked out and had a similar response but she would then hug me and say she was sorry , she thinks she loves me and she's scared because she didn't want to be a lesbian. I let her stay and I loved her more. She's 50% of the time the sweetest, most funny, sexy and beautiful woman I have ever known. I see her vulnerabilities, I know I can't fix her but she trusted me with them and I think that's why I see the worst of her.

I am not perfect, I have broken down, been very defensive , always arguing for her to hear me through her distortions. I tried to set boundaries, I have yelled, broken down, cried. But I was always always there for her and I want to be.

Last year in September I paid for a trip and on the second day she said she was feeling out of sorts, she said it wasn't me and she knows it's her. But the day was awful she was moody and strange and when we got back to our accommodation she went for a shower and I waited for her watching tv. She got upset with me that I wasn't waiting for her when she got out of the shower, I tried to explain that I was just watching some telly and we can go do anything she wanted now ... she refused my explanation and got upset and I was tired from driving all day and trying to keep her ok that day I got upset . I must have triggered her, we exchanged some nasties and I regret doing this but I showed her the finger. She threw her phone at me, it hit me on my jaw and then she came over and hit me on the head (not hard either). She then locked herself in the room. My jaw was bruised and swollen and I was in shock and panic, I was yelling at her and telling her we are leaving now and to let me into the room so I can pack and that I didn't know why she did that - but I feel ashamed because I had triggered her. She yanked me by my hair and screamed in my ear that "it is always my fault you are never to blame, it is always me me me!" I was in shock. I didn't know what to think. She didn't want to leave that night but she said she knew we were over.

I got up next morning and I don't know what it is about me but I still love her and love her so much. She was in pieces about what happened. I told her I forgave her and strangely we had an amazing day out.

Things were more settled when we got back home for the next six weeks. We had some really good weeks and she was way calmer than before. She mentiond "we haven't had a fight for a while" and I said "yes doesn't mean we should start", as a joke. The very next day she started withdrawing for no reason, said she shouldn't stay over at my place anymore. What we did on the weekends was not what she wanted, I got upset and annoyed - she followed on this trajectory by cancelling plans for a concert I had booked making it about me not having got the tickets for her in the first place and she didn't get along with my friends. I was distraught and upset from this whiplash and got upset at her. She tried to make it up to me on the weekend and it was fine .. regardless I think my nerves were shot and the next time she tried to gaslight my intentions of seeing her by saying I didn't want to see her even after I had reassured her she got to say that I am the crazy one that got upset and angry at her all the time. Anyway that night I called her manipulative over text. She blocked me. Next day she came back and wanted to hang out, and we did. It was fine. The next day is when the last rupture took place after two years - I wanted to see her and hang out with her and I was going to drive and pick her up. I offered to make dinner and it was all good. In the car she seemed to be in a bad mood and I had shut me down a few times ... then she asked to be intimate when we got back to my place to which I rejected her because I was on my period (sorry tmi). I know that probably was a rejection to her because she then started going on about why ask her to hang out if we were not going to be intimate, and so on and so forth and brought up the manipulative comment. I was hormonal and tired and had gone to a lot of effort to shop and pick her up that I snapped again and started yelling at her., She was calm through it all.

She said she was done, she was exhausted. I tried to still continue our plans to make an attempt to reconcile even though I was fuming but she said it was too late. She refused to get out of the car so I drove her home. On the way home she continued to make a comment that lesbians were so dramatic , always so much drama. I was exasperated and I said "own it, you are one too". She shut up after that and refused to say another word and told me I should shut up too. I think I hit a nerve and I am embarassed that I acted the way I did. On the way back to her place I noticed she had again blocked me on her phone. My abandonment triggers were escalated and I couldn't take it anymore. I said I was done too and asked her not to unblock me and to stay strong. We were both going overseas and the break would do us good. She got out of the car and that was the last I have heard from her.

I sent her an apology e-mail two days after that event in the car, no pressure for a response I said just want to say I was sorry for yelling it wasn't ok. No response. We both went on our respective overseas trip. Nothing when I came back. I thought I would wait a bit more - sent her an 'accidental ping" at work that I told her was accidental and I wish she was well. Nothing.

I don't know what to do. Is it over? I can't believe it is I am horrified by how I acted. I know it is unhealthy but I want to be better and I am going to seek therapy because I cannot deal with this. But what is happening here? Does she have BPD is she avoidant? I can see that she has added a couple of people to her instagram (we are not connected socially or digitally so I am obviously desperate and in despair) so she has been out and about. I don't know what to think. She is definintely done? Given the 100s of returns my brain can't believe it. I love her still despite everything and I understand what I do to trigger her and I want to be better. What should I do? Can I do anything, should I stop waiting ? I am in such agony I know I am not healthy myself in terms of my anxious co-dependent attachment but I feel we were her one true emotional connection in her life and physical once in ten years   .... is she really over me just like that. I have tried to be patient but I am only human and I erred and I feel terrible for all that I had said in the last couple of ruptures but I didn't want it to be the end. I am not sure what I am looking for, just wanting to know if she will come back ... I'm blocked like I told her to keep me blocked and I feel so stupid for that. She's not blocked on my end but she's been silent to everything I don't even know if she read my apology e-mail three months back.

She and I still work in the same organisation so I see her online at work but we do not see each other physically (it's a big organisation) and I am tormented. Please be kind as I am not in a good place at the moment.

Thank you, Mutt. I think what I’m realizing is that I need even a small bit of repair after something escalates — acknowledgment that it went too far, or reassurance that we both still want to reconnect. It doesn’t have to be dramatic. But when there’s escalation followed by silence and no repair, I feel unsettled. I also realize he may not be able to offer that.

I do try to offer small acknowledgments and signals that I’m here without being pushy, because I don’t want to make things worse. I want him to feel supported. What felt different this time was how specific the criticisms were. In the past they’ve been more general. This time it felt more personal, and that’s been harder for me to shake.

Hi, cc43,

The comment my daughter made about "I have no friends" was her talking about herself, not me. My daughter has lost ALL of her friends. She's gone through numerous roommates in college, no one was ever acceptable. Every living situation she had in college she found issues with until she had a room in an apartment by herself off-campus. Even then the family she was living with was "a problem".

I get everything everyone is saying. I've experienced everything everyone has written here. It's as though all of you are living my experiences. I've been listening for the projections behind the accusations for quite some time now. I hear them. She doesn't like facing the things she has said or done from the past but only wants to keep focus on how everyone around her has "wronged" her in some way.

Mine pulled the "I'm an adult" line and it ended up costing me thousands when she screwed that situation up. I had to remind her of that the next time she used that line and point out, "the last time you said you were an adult it cost me a lot of money." She didn't like being reminded of that.

Her last tirade was all about how she feels impotent in her life and that she will never have a relationship or a child or a job; as if she'd already given up. One of the techniques her current therapist did teach her was to call a timeout on herself when she started to lose her cool. I think it helped in one argument we had.

She doesn't like listening to anyone give her advice. Absolutely everyone is wrong about everything and she knows everything there is to know and is the definitive final say about every topic.

"I'm an adult" is a common theme for her. Right after she says, "I need money and you owe me."

Hi again,

I'd encourage you to go through some of the posts in the Son/Daughter section.  I bet you will see some recurring themes and useful tips.

By the way, your daughter's statement of "You have no friends" is probably code for, your daughter thinks SHE has no friends.  This is in all likelihood projection.  My bet is that your daughter lost some friends after unfortunate rage-texting episodes, and she's extremely hurt by that.  She's ruminating so much about her shrinking social circle that her preoccupation manifests as an accusation.

Anyway, if you notice that your daughter is making accusations of you which seem delusional, I'd recommend to listen for projections and the FEELINGS behind the accusations.  That will tell you what your daughter is really worried about.  As an example, my adult BPD stepdaughter was ruminating obsessively about falling behind her peers and generally feeling inferior.  This preoccupation often manifested in statements like, "You're condescending, you treat me like a baby, you're childish."  And also, "I'm an adult, I can do whatever I want, I don't have to listen to you."  She said "I'm an adult, I can do whatever I want" so often that it sounded like the exact opposite.  What she was really saying was, "Though I'm an adult, I feel childish and embarrassed because I need to ask my dad to sign my lease/send me money/fix my car/explain what a car registration is, and I have to ask him because otherwise I'd be homeless/carless/have no fun and it's his fault he put me in this situation in the first place, it's not fair, I never asked to be born!"  In summary, she resents you for making her feel dependent on you . . .

Yeah, when I filed for divorce my STBXBPDW claimed she had a $10,000/month minimum payment on her credit cards.  I told my attorney either she somehow got her own card with like a six-figure limit and immediately maxxed it out, or confused her balance for her payment.  Everyone laughed at her and she had to redo it. 

Don't worry about this too much; she can  - and will - claim all sorts of insane things, but of course at court she has to substantiate them. 

Just maybe take a "snapshot" of your personal and joint finances now (like incomes, account balances, credit card balances, monthly expenses, etc.) and have that ready for mediation, so when she claims you owe her a billion dollars because that's what she was accustomed to spending, you can show how she's imagining things.