Hey GrayJay,

She just wants you to use the gray jay boxer shorts, not the blue. Otherwise she would think you're become the dancing blue guy of "Blue (Da Ba Dee)" by
Eiffel 65 in 1998. Just kidding...

Firstly, congratulations on more than a week of enjoyable companionship.

I don't think you made any serious mistakes, but you counter-argued and tried to defend yourself. Maybe you got upset with her because of her overreaction to the forgotten boxer shorts. That's normal. But as you defended, you invalidated her, and therefore she attacked you back, trying to instill fear of abandonment in you.

It would have been better if you had asked questions to better understand what was going through her mind. After making sure you understood her, you could have let her know you comprehended her thoughts. Next, as an attempt to help her feel better, you could have said those blue boxer shorts didn't mean anything to you, so you wouldn't mind throwing them away if that would make her feel better. Then, you could ask for a minute and grab some scissors to destroy it if she agrees (actions count more than words). If you did that with the right emotion and intention, I'm guessing she would feel touched when seeing you do that for her.

After more than a week of good companionship, my uBPD wife had a very strong reaction last night, and she is still upset today. We had just returned from a trip to another part of the country to visit our daughter and son-in-law, and it all went well. We were tired from travel, but were doing laundry and putting it away when my wife found a single pair of boxer shorts in my clothes drawer which she had never seen before. I wear cotton boxer shorts (gray, blue, and black) from Costco, but this was a similar cut of short but navy blue and made of polyester. It had very fine pin stripes. It's been in my drawer for quite a few years, but to be honest I never wear them (probably did once or twice, but I prefer cotton) and do not remember where I got them. She immediately jumped on me, thinking that this was sexy underwear and I was just waiting for a chance to use them in front of another woman. She just "knows" that I have plans, especially when she is not at home or might have to visit her sick mother who lives far away. She immediately tore into me, and goes from low emotional arousal to 100% in a few seconds. I responded (truthfully) that I did not remember where I got them, but looked at the label and found that the brand is sold at a particular department store nearby which we visit 1-2 times per year. I don't go there alone, and must have bought them along with other items that both of us purchased together, but it may have been at least 5 years ago, probably more. She said I was lying that I didn't remember, and that I'm a psychopath with no moral sense. I tried to tell her that I would never have an affair (and this is true), but she was completely dysregulated, in full amygdala control mode. She said she cannot live with a sneaky, untrustworthy man, and that I have hurt her far too many times; it's best to end the relationship. All of her reading and inquiries into AI say that I am hopeless and that she should protect (save) herself by ending our 34 year marriage.
We went to bed, tired and jet lagged, and here is a portion of our text exchange, lightly edited to remove names, places, and the occasional misspelling. One or two typos remain which I don't know how to correct. I'm sure I JADEed, but I couldn't just ignore her and I tried to calm her down.

Her: I'm starting to feel you look like Epstein. You do all kinds of mischief and then get your on the verge of dying episodes! And keep me hanging around so I can clean up your pee, poop, and vomit! I deserve much better. Your toxic covert behaviors, lying and manipulating and gaslighting behaviors make it unbearable to be around you. The less I am around you the more peace I have!
Me: I'm sorry this upset you so much. It's just a pair of polyester boxer shorts, not cotton like the ones I get from Costco.
Her: The best answer is always "I don't know." How can you not know where you got silly underwear from! I share everything with you. You are as slippery as an eel. Karma is a b****, you know. You will have to pay for all the lies you have told me!
Me: I am not lying. I have many clothes that I don't remember buying. I can see you're very upset and I am very sorry about that, but there's nothing sinister here.
Her: You try to gaslight me into leaving so you become the victim.
Me: I want to stay married to you for the rest of our lives. We have so many good things, and many more good things to look forward to.
Her: Then stop gaslight, lying, and doing shady s***! You have torment way too much already for me to be this awakened and still want to be with you. I am raw and unprotected. And you have no empathy or feelings. Only a persona. May even be a psychopath!  "An immature man won't end a relationship directly. He'll sabotage it or push you to be the one who walks away." (Note: this is a quote from a Facebook page.
Me: Here's the thing, and I know it for certain - I do not want to end the marriage. I do not want you to end the marriage either.  It's as simple as that.
Her: You don't want to end the marriage but you are constantly undermining the marriage. Don't expect me to just flip over and love you again after you have betrayed and hurt me so much. I found out what you were like only after you retired! This is all new to me! I have been an innocent fool. That is why I say I have no guilt or shame. You have been the one misbehaving, doing coercive control, financially abusing me, making a fool of yourself as well as me flirting with old women, hitting on you hyphens (sic) like a pedophile. You have been a deplorable husband. Young women your daughter's age! I don't want to go places with you I want the freedoms of just representing myself. Not someone misbehaving next to me!
Me: We had very enjoyable and successful trips to (place 1) and (place 2). We work together very well as a team in helping our adult children. I have zero desire or intention for separation or divorce. I am not threatening it and I do not want you to initiate it either. I don't know how I can be any clearer than that.

This went on a bit longer, and I eventually ended it by saying "I think we need to end this conversation for tonight. We're going in circles with no resolution. I am committed to you and I am committed to the marriage and that's the truth. To which she replied: I want to go through the "psychopath husband" article with you in the morning. You cover every trait.

What do you think of this? I know I did some JADE, but tried to minimize it. Not giving a response would have been far worse, and me responding in a similar tone to hers would have been disastrous. We did go through the psychopath husband article today and despite the ludicrous nature of the claims, I stayed fairly calm, and she is still upset but not as bad.

Any suggestions, encouragement?  Thanks!

Hi there,

I think my approach is in line with Horselover's.  Generally, I pick my battles.  Some things I just "let go."  And more often than not, if I want something, I have to resign myself to accepting that if I want it, I probably have to do it (or be responsible for it) myself, as reasonable discussions are futile.  Some bills, cleaning and general maintenance tasks fall into this category.  Oftentimes I have to take care of them "on the sly," so as not to trigger my partner and/or adult stepdaughter with BPD.  Because when they are in a mood, everything I do can seem "triggering," wrong, annoying or otherwise.

And then sometimes I use a "strategy."  I've found that hiring a third party to do things seems less triggering than if I myself do them.  An example might be hiring home cleaners.  If the cleaners straighten up a messy room, then it's not "my fault"--the cleaners were merely doing their job.  Another example would be hiring accountants--then the tax bill is from "professionals," not me using TurboTax, which cuts down on arguments over paying "too much" in taxes or me trying to "fudge the numbers."

Fortunately, we don't usually get into arguments over paying the regular bills (utilities, etc.), but if we did, I might try hiring a third-party budgeter who would tell us what we are compelled to pay.  That might cut down on arguments with me about WHAT we owe and WHY we have to pay.  Here's another example:  snow shoveling and leaf pick-up.  My partner will go berserk if I shovel--I think it's because I'm reminding him that he should be shoveling, but he doesn't want to do it in the moment, and I anger him because I make him feel guilty?  Yet when I'm shoveling, it's because I really need to (e.g. to get my car out or clear a path to the door/mailbox).  The solution?  Hire somebody.  End of arguments.  Regarding fall pick-up of leaves, either I do it "on the sly," or I hire somebody.  But if I pick up the leaves myself and my partner sees me, he usually gets angry because he "doesn't want to pick up leaves today."  (Bizarre, right?  I think he should be happy that I'm picking up the leaves!)  I think it's a guilt thing--he knows he's not pulling his weight, and I'm reminding him of that, and then I'm the bad one.  A similar thing happens with home repairs.  Painting?  My partner is happy for me to do it.  Fix anything mechanical/technical--a faulty doorknob, a frozen router--my husband won't let me do it, I'm not "allowed."  Either I do it myself (on the sly), hire someone, or live with broken things around the house.  I hate having broken stuff, by the way.

I think the above strategies are designed to avoid talking through issues.  But some things require conversation.  The ones that do, I wait for a calm moment, when the pwBPD or BPD traits is in a good mood.  I'll usually practice a script with myself beforehand.  I try to keep things really short and to the point--I know I probably only get one minute before potential dysregulation.  I try to avoid any blaming, and typically I'll just offer a solution.  Something along the lines:  We need XYZ, so I'd like to work on that soon.  Do you think you're able to help with (specific ask)?  How about next Saturday?  (Asking for their input on timing helps give them a sense of control I think--and I think they are more inclined to be amenable when a date seems farther off.)  And afterwards we can get a bite to eat (i.e. provide incentive).  When the work is done and they cooperate, I lay on the praise.

As for leaving messes, such as making a mess of clothes in a closet or drawer, I think I've accepted it by dividing up space in the house.  My closet (or my section of the closet)--I get to have it any way I want.  Look, my pwBPD has invaded my space, messed it up, rifled through things more times than I can count.  Usually I'll say after the fact, something like, "I know you like to have privacy in your room, and I do too.  All the adults in this house deserve privacy.  If you need something and you think it's in my bathroom/bedroom/closet/dresser/vanity/car/xyz, please just ask me first, and I'll get it for you, and I'll do the same with you.  OK?  That doesn't mean they'll stop, but if you say that a few times, they know the "rule."  And then when they break it, I think it's easier for you to point it out--Someone has been through my makeup drawer, and I now can't find my tweezers.  I'd appreciate having some privacy.

Can someone please give me more feedback on this?

Does the above list make sense?

I'll post more as soon as I can.  Busy weekend coming up.  Thanks for reading.

I don't remember when the slide started.  When her drinking and abuse of medication intensified.  I really don't remember that moment.  I think it happened like a lot of things:

Slowly, and then all at once.

We looked for a bigger house shortly after our son was born. We found one nearby that she really liked. I had a sinking suspicion why she preferred this particular house. It was 3,000 square feet at the end of a long driveway, surrounded by trees. 

It was big.  It was secluded.  It was the perfect hiding spot.

It wasn't long after we moved in that the descent started.  For me the descent is marked by incidents as much as its marked by feelings.  A change in the atmosphere. The wind began blowing in a different direction.

I could feel things shifting.

Before long my dinner break stopped being just a meal with the family.  As her addiction intensified I began cooking the meals instead of just coming home to eat them.  Then I was cooking and cleaning.  Next I was helping with homework.  By the end I was cooking, cleaning, and getting the kids ready for bed, all while on duty as a police sergeant. 

I was working two thankless jobs at the same time.

J1 was working full-time as a nurse and would return home right before I left for work.  There were days where I'd be waiting on the porch for her to come home so I could rush to work myself.  I can still see it in my mind, her putting the car in park, turning toward the passenger seat, and emerging with the telltale paper bag, clutched tightly at the top. 

Even now, as I'm sitting here picturing this scene, my shoulders slump forward a bit.  Just like they did every day she came home with another bottle of wine.  That mark of quiet resignation.

"Another night I'm without a wife and they're without a mother.  Maybe tomorrow will be better."

Work started to feel like relief.  Home was my workplace. 

I learned to read that house like a crime scene.

My shift as a cop ended at midnight, but there was still a job to do.  Every night was the same scene.  I'd come down our street and as I turned down the driveway I'd catch a glimpse of the bedroom window. 

"Is the light on or off?" 

If it was off that meant she was passed out. If it was on I knew that I was back on duty before I even walked in the door.  She was probably drunk, probably emotional, and probably looking for a fight.

Even the nights when the light was off didn't end peacefully for me.  I'd sit on the couch in the living room and unwind with some TV.  The whole time I'd have an ear tuned into the floorboards above me, waiting for the creak.  The creak meant she was up.  The toilet flushing meant I was safe.  No flush meant we could be in for a long night.

I could hear the sound of the wine fridge from anywhere in the house.  The cabinet where she kept her wine glasses had a certain signature. The sound of the bottle opening.  I could hear her opening up the paper bag with the prescription meds in it.  There was a brief pause in the crinkle of the paper, right before she broke the grip of the staple holding the bag shut.

I knew she was drunk by the sound of her footsteps.  Not an unsteady gait, more like an uncertain one.  Her steps got just a tiny bit heavier.  It was as if she wasn't sure if the earth would still be there when she put her foot down.

One night we attended a birthday party for a childhood friend of my wife.  Friends and family, all people she had known since she was young.  It was getting late, and we had to get home to relieve the babysitter.  J1 was drunk and she didn't want to leave.  I pushed back because I knew:

This night will not end cleanly if she's not in the car with me.

Eventually I relented and went home by myself.  My phone rang a few hours later.  "I want to come home.  Come get me."  She was back at the birthday girl's house.  I was home with the kids, it was the middle of the night.  I urged her to go to bed, to sleep it off.  "No! I want to come home." 

My gut told me that she was coming home one way or the other.

I took the risk of leaving the kids home unattended and went to look for my wife.  Sure enough I found her stumbling along the shoulder of a dark, busy street at 2 am.  Wasted, shoes in her hands. 

I stopped alongside of her, opened the door, and drove her home without saying a word.     

This didn't feel like hypervigilance to me.  No one told me that was a thing.  It just felt like I was really, really good at my job: 

To keep her stable.  To keep her alive.

Thank you, Superdaddy. Interesting suggestion. I will think about it.

This is a year old post I somehow missed but I wanted to add my thoughts.


I recall how my family court and even my Custody Evaluator viewed parenting schedules.  For children up to preteen years both advocated equal time for co-parenting.

Because our child exchanges were places for my ex to play games posing as the aggrieved mother, I wanted exchanges as far apart as possible.  With equal time being discussed and the schedules designed across two weeks, I favored alternating weeks.  My CE, a child psychologist, corrected me.  He said a better schedule for children until at least 10 years old was two exchanges per week and described the 2-2-3 schedule (or 2-2-5-5 across two weeks).  One parent would get Mon-Tue overnights, the other Wed-Thu overnights and they would alternate Fri-Sat-Sun overnights.  I decided the second half of the week would be best for me since then I could review my child's school assignments and be sure they were done each week.

And my lawyer agreed, he asked me whether I wanted the court to think I felt my child didn't need more frequent time with me.  Um, not that!  As it turned out, even when I got majority time during the school year at age 12, we continued with 2-2-3 during summers until he finished school and aged out of the system.

I also advocate for the children to have access to informed school counselors.  Plus my son had regular counseling sessions until he was 12, starting at age 3 with play therapy.

On the one hand, it is sad when children have two homes.  On the other hand, it allows the children to have at least part of their lives in a reasonably normal home environment.  It would be so helpful when they choose their own adult relationships.


You do have a right to reconsider past decisions and promises.  Possibly even marital vows, though of course that is a decision not to be taken lightly.  A major factor is the impact of the negativity, conflict, disrespect and discord.  When one spouse is working against the other spouse, it can reach a point where all options are on the table, even ones previously rejected outright.

GratefulDad made an excellent point. Counseling for our own benefit is so important and we may have to seek out one who has approaches to fit our needs.

I failed to mention that in my earlier post here.  My bad.  But my post later that day to another member did highlight the value of working on ourselves.

To add- your anger, frustration at the NHS, is real and valid. I wasn't as much angry at the medical providers but I didn't understand why my father didn't have my BPD mother hospitalized.

My feelings towards my father were mixed. On one hand, I was very attached to him, and credit him for our well being and for being our most stable parent. I also understood he was dealing with a difficult situation. In addition, I didn't understand why he seemed to allow and enable BPD mother's behaviot. I had an idea of what should have been done and why didn't he do it, similarly like you feel about the NHS not doing what should have been done.

That was until BPD mother's elder years when I did have input with the POA. I spoke with her medical team, her caregivers, the hospital staff when she was there, the assisted living and nursing home staff and when it came down to it- no matter what the plan, if she didn't agree to it or cooperate, nobody could do much for her. I think my father probably tried as well, but he couldn't do much either.

Her behavior also wasn't as apparent to health care providers when she was living on her own at home. BPD mother could present well in the office during a visit. It was when she needed assistance and had caregivers, was in assisted living, who were with her for long hours that they saw the bigger picture.

The gap in assisted living and nursing home care here is that it is based on a person's physical need for assistance in daily tasks, like dressing, bathing, eating. BPD mother did not need as much assistance in these tasks but emotionally, she needed more supervision than she qualified for.

For me, working through the anger and frustration at what I thought wasn't doing enough for her was a process, a process you also will be working through. However this goes, I think it's important to have some boundaries on what you can do, are willing to do, and also how to protect your own emotional well being.

I will share two sources that illustrate the dilemma.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=65164.0;all

This exerpt from a book- not exactly the same situation but similar dynamics and the daughter's sadness and frustration.

https://slate.com/technology/2022/03/mentally-ill-parent-elder-care-boundaries-liz-scheier.html

I don't suggest you "let go" or not try- I think in trying, we learn what we can do and what seems out of our control.