Just know that for someone who has mental illness, two months is literally an eternity.

In my case, my wife and I split up around the end of July.  My birthday was a month prior and she posted a super long thank you on my Facebook page for always being there for her.  When she left, she told family that I was mentally abusive and she had to get out.  Every single one of them pointed to that Facebook post though, saying what's changed in the past four weeks since you said he was the best husband ever? 

She had no answer...and of course she deleted the post.

Disordered thinking is literally a cancer and I think all of us have experienced it at some point in our lives.  I can remember being fired from a job in my 30's where the boss just hated me.  I was the hardest worker there and I was always trying to make the boss's job easier, but she really had it out for me and I never understood why.

I can remember after being fired, I'd catch myself daydreaming about revenge.  I'm not that guy, and I'd never go after anyone, but the more I thought about it, the more my mind came up with ways to get her fired from the job too.  And truthfully, I hated thinking that way...I hated being so angry that my mind wanted vengeance.  So I can't imagine having a mind that does that 24/7 when things aren't going my way.  That's pretty much what BPD does though.

Sure, let's talk this out in terms you can easily understand.

Let's pretend you have an insane fear of spiders.  You see one and your reaction is so extreme, there's a chance you have a heart attack.

So if you see a spider, you're getting out of there no matter what it takes.  Maybe you knock down old ladies or kids...it doesn't matter.  Your only mindset is to escape for self preservation.  What a spider is in your midst, it's 100% about survival and nothing else.

That's sort of how BPD is as well.  I've talked this out for hundreds of hours with my BPD daughter and when something goes wrong, she second guesses everything in her head and literally goes down the rabbit hole. 

The "problem" could be me not holding a door for her.  Maybe I didn't even see her coming, or maybe I had 6 bags of groceries in my arms.  Whatever.  But that one slight makes her question why it happened...was it an accident or was I trying to be mean?  Before long, she's thinking about something similar that happened yesterday, and last week, and that thing from 5 years ago.  Her mind is putting these pieces together throughout the day in an illogical way. 

This happened and that happened, so that means this is connected to that and proves this other thing...it's all mumbo jumbo.  The name for it is "disordered thinking" because that's exactly what happens.

Maybe that night, my kid explodes at me over something completely different, and I'm thinking, "What the heck is that about?  Why are we arguing over me not petting her dog?"  But it's not the dog, it's the 50 other things she's built up in her mind to prove that I can't stand her and I'm only around to harm her. 

They're all a jumbled mess of thoughts, mind you, and they can't be articulated (because they don't make sense).  But they are real thoughts and they send a borderline spiraling.

So when my kid makes a comment about me not holding a door, I intentionally apologize and explain that I had a hand full of groceries and I didn't even see her coming.  Sometimes I'd even add that I love you and I'd never do anything to hurt you.

Once that's said, once she gets affirmation that my actions were genuine, all the chaos disappears...because she's not worried that her daddy doesn't love her anymore.  That's ultimately where all of this comes from, an irrational fear that consumes every part of their life.  Once we get past that though, then we're just two people again and everything is normal.

If I had discovered this maybe 3 years earlier and what was happening with my BPD ex wife, we easily could have saved the marriage by just communicating a different way when my wife was disordered.

There is a real hope and it comes through a different style of communication.  But at the same time, I did choose to stop fighting for my marriage so I understand the cost of staying.  In my case, there was adultery by my ex and so many lies to everyone in our life, I just couldn't come back from it.  I just wanted you to see the other side of this clearly and I hope that helps.

Hi

I have read your first post, and I see you both have a young baby. That brings more tension.

Do you frequently argue with him about his "almost cheating" behavior? Do you get angry? You have all of the right to be angry at that, but I'm asking because if you feed into the drama, it will make the behavior worse.

To be honest, I think things will only improve if he loses access to you as a consequence for this behavior. For instance, you could move away to a parent's house for a while. Or perhaps you could do it permanently. But it's important that the consequence does not feed into the drama, so you would need to cut off all contact with him and have someone else deal with him and his requests. Maybe someone else would request him to leave your house so that you can return.

The idea is that once you are not living together, you'll finally be able to have peace and set boundaries that protect your peace, so you'll be able to provide love while ignoring his drama, so he won't be able to force the drama onto you, and if that's accomplished, then gradually his recent drama should be reversed (settled down to the level it was in the beginning).

Otherwise, you'd have to go into an open relationship, perhaps one-sided. But I don't think you want that, and I don't think it would really end the drama.

Rowdy ,


Thanks a lot for this clarification. Did she feel loved and still keep seeking conflict after saying that? Did anything bad happen within those 2 months?


It's not manipulative because she doesn't think about it, and she does not deceive me. It is very spontaneous and automatic. It's just the BPD craziness settling down and the normal self taking over.

She does use manipulative tactics with bouts of lies, but only when the crazy feature is active, and her manipulation goal is never to promote proximity; it is to provoke me and feed more conflict.

It's so sad that living together makes it impossible for me to set boundaries, because I'll have to force her back into her mom's place, despite her being a very good person when BPD features are not active.

Hi Inforthewin
I have read your first post about the pregnancy and have been trying to find a moment to pen a reply. Your post brought back a clear recollection of the moment my DD announced that she was pregnant. I felt spaced out and totally whacked – so I am sure my response was well short of enthusiastic. I too was sure it was not accidental – and my DD was 19.
Now gd is nearly 16! It is a rollercoaster ride that’s for sure.

I am not sure your friend fully understands BPD – because I don’t think she would give advice of this scale if that were the case. Going NC is a huge step – one that is an option for sure – but it is such a huge thing to do, I don’t think anyone can advise another person to take that step. The person themselves would need to come to that conclusion and from what you say, it is not what your heart or head is telling you to do at this point in time. You need to follow that message I believe.

I also don’t think it matters whether the pregnancy was planned or not. It is there now, and all the reasons why it would be better if it had not happened are not going to change that. This is now the situation.

First of all give yourself time to adjust to this. It is HUGE – and you are no doubt thinking of all the possible consequences and different eventualities. I found myself sort of feeling sick, while DD was basking in all the attention a pregnancy brings.

We use words like ‘co-dependence’ often without a proper definition, or reference to a huge range of different circumstances. Being prepared to walk beside your DD does not mean that you are automatically ‘co-dependent’. It can simply mean you love your DD and want to be able to be part of her life and the life of your grandchild.

That’s the first thing – follow your own heart and mind (wherever it may lead you because that’s the only way forward).

The next thing – can you be happy about it? This is what your DD wants, but gosh I am sure it is hard to get the happy vibe going when you can see all the possibilities and problems ahead. I have to admit I found it very difficult but after getting over the shock and taking time to adjust I changed my thought pattern to focusing on the child. That made it easier because every child needs to be carried in an atmosphere that is happy, relaxed and healthy – and your grandchild is no exception.

All that said, there is still the fact that your DD has a very serious condition – one that is not only challenging for her but all those around her and especially whoever is the target of blame. And DD is only 19 so be ready for the long haul.

From what you say, the father of the child is very stable and has stable support – this is another reason to be happy because that side of things could be so different.

Do you feel you can express a positive feeling to your DD? I think if you can do that, the next thing is look at what happens then? I am wondering whether DD intends to move in with the father, stay at the apartment that you are financing or . . .

I think I would be quickly making the positive vibe move and then keeping an open communication to find out what DD is thinking in relation to the living arrangement. Perhaps you know this already.

Re the abuse etc. In my opinion it’s good to take one step at a time, I would see how all this settles and then perhaps you could post some actual examples of how things are and we can look at options for addressing those issues.

Keep in mind that all this is my opinion. I believe strongly that each person’s situation and relationship is unique and you are the one who knows your DD.  It is great to come here where people know the lived experience of BPD and can give us their personal experience. All options are on the table – follow your heart and mind, and  believe in your own ability to find a way forward.                             

Hi GrayJay ,

Thanks for sharing. We also learn from what you write. You seem to be a very good person. The high five thing at night seems a bit psychotic.

Let's look at some of the causes:

1) The framing she puts you through seems part of a subconscious attempt to "artificially set the body to survival mode in order to mobilize the last reserves of the EOS", just like the scientific study says.

2) Your retirement is also a big factor.

3) Worsening of the disorder with aging also seems to be a factor. I'd recommend you look seriously at the nutrients that become low with aging, as they can make a dysfunctional brain much worse.

Factor 3 is where you can easily intervene. Start by yourself, to get stronger, and hope that she follows. It works for any age. Supplements saved me in my 20s, and now at my 40s they are making me mentally stronger again.

But your understanding of her behavior is not precise. What I said about her walking nude and being unwell is not manipulation. It is a genuine and automatic behavior that she does when she feels the need for proximity, even while she is still very angry.

@Superdaddy what makes you think these are not manipulation tactics? You said they were pull strategies and she changes her behaviour if she sees that it doesn’t work. Is that not the definition of manipulative behaviour?
Maybe she did this and it worked a few times, so it then became learned behaviour, because if it worked once it may well work again leading to it becoming automatic behaviour?

Because that's the whole source of instability- I called it abandonment and maybe that's not technically the right word.  But once a BPD realizes that you have their back no matter what, the dysfunction disappears.

@Pook the quote above in your last post really stood out, as it was something my wife literally said before the discard.
She said “I know that no matter what I do, you and my dad will always have my back” which was probably 2 months before we broke up.

My teen daughter has BPD (anxiety and mild depression).  High IQ.  Dyslexia which compounds the challenges and pressures of school. She recently had a suicide attempt and previously self harmed one time. She gets great grades and is generally a great well behaved kids.  No other issues.  Dr suggested places like below.  Everything online about these places scare me (except for 3East) and they don't look like they make much of a difference.  Thoughts from any parents on this situation or these programs? or suggestions for others?  It seems like DBT is the right path for her.

3east at Mclean
Summit achievement
Pacific quest in Hawaii
Cascade academy in Utah
Silver hill
Mountain valley in NH

I'm very sad and confused about what I should do and not do when it comes to mitigating issues and helping m dBPD daughter right now and moving forward. Her recent news about being pregnant has thrown me through a loop and made her need to seek help so much more urgent, but I know I can't control that. At this point I'm grappling with how to maintain physical boundaries that are necessary due to her volatile behavior while also remaining accessible and appropriately supportive. She wants me to just "be happy for her" but I don't feel happiness. What I feel is afraid and helpless with a smidgon of hope that hangs on a thread. My friend who's a nurse and professes to understand BPD thinks that I should be going NC to the point of blocking my daughter from even contacting me, but this just doesn't set right in my heart or mind. She's only 19, is legitimately in a lot of pain, and it seems cruel and downright dangerous...... but apparently that makes me codependent? Please help. I wan't to support her and be a part of my grandchild's life, but not with the tradeoff of continuing to tolerate abuse or becoming an enabler. I don't believe the pregnancy was any accident but does that even matter. Does it?