There's a magic phrase in the mental health world.  It's, "<The mentally ill person> is a danger to himself or others." 

You say that to the police, to someone at a hospital, to a paramedic, to a judge, to literally anyone with any ties to the government, and it is now their problem.  If they hear that phrase and do not render immediate aid, they are personally responsible.

A similar phrase is, "<Someone in the home> does not feel safe around <the BPD person>."

Police might ask why don't they feel safe, but it's a question that doesn't have to be directly answered (or can be answered with the first statement).  Or it can be answered more directly, "They're angry and unstable, I don't know what they'll do."

You mentioned that police should only be used in an emergency, but when someone is raging in your home and they're unstable, that is a mental health emergency.  Documenting it is the fastest way to getting them the help they need.

In many cases, the disordered person completely changes when the police arrive.  And you might say, what was the point if that's what happens?  Well, that was the goal to begin with, to ask them to leave without harassment or violence.  Your local police will tell you to call 10 times out of 10 in that situation.

I'd recommend you talk to someone professional, especially since there is a history of substance abuse or something like that.

I'm also going to be straight with you, as I would want someone to be if I were in your place at your age.

What you learn from this may help you for the rest of your life, and I wish it does.

Your ex has many, many problems. It's not clear to me she's been officially diagnosed with BPD, but I'm going to assume she has the disorder or something in the same cluster of personality disorders.

She is someone who clearly is lacking in impulse control. She's grafting onto whoever is in her life at any given moment she thinks gives her what she needs or wants. Her needs could be emotional or physical at the time, but they echo each other. When she gets a temporary need or want satisfied, she either has a new need or want or the people she is with are no longer interested in her.

That's when she turns to you. You are a safe harbor for her. When she reaches out to you, she's trying to get a need or want satisfied. She might need attention. She might need affirmation. She might need to feel wanted. Whatever it is, that's why she reaches out to you. When you respond in one form or another, it satisfies that need, and she's no longer interested. That's why she goes silent and bounces over to another guy or whatever.

For you to have strength, you need to see her for what she is: a manipulator. She may or may not be conscious of her actions and motivations, but that doesn't matter. They result in the same thing, which is she has a itch, you scratch it, and then she's gone on to someone else. Every time she reaches out to you, you need to understand it's less you and more what you represent she's wanting.

That doesn't mean she might not have feelings for you. I'm not trying to be cold about this nor to discount that possibility. What I'm saying is her constant pattern of communicating and then going silent shows she's relying on you solely to soothe some issue she has at the moment.

I wouldn't want to be treated that way, and I broke it off with mine and went no contact because of it. It can hurt because if you have feelings for her, you're going to naturally want her to be in your life. But her actions are selfish, and her needs and wants will be never ending. And they are not reciprocal. She is not thinking of your needs and wants. She is only thinking of hers.

That means you have to think of your needs and wants. You have to not sublimate those to help her. You have to help yourself. Start by talking about it with a therapist. Chances are, they'll tell you to go no contact with her, as that may be best for both of you.

Hi there,

I confess I have zero experience with therapy and family therapy.  However I can tell you what I think worked pretty well with my adult BPD stepdaughter.  She found a therapist whom she trusts, and she has been meeting with her regularly for years now, probably once a week when in distress and maybe twice a month thereafter.  At some critical junctures, there were some therapy sessions where her dad participated.  This happened maybe two or three times over as many years.  I wouldn't say this was "family" therapy, but rather attempts at a "reset" to improve communication.  I think these sessions were emotionally intense, where issues were aired out and put on the table, but they were ultimately valuable in helping everyone understand the pain points in an attempt to move forward, facilitated by the therapist.  My understaning is that her dad mostly listened, but by the same token, he understood better the depth and source(s) of his daughter's pain.  In addition, I think the therapist got to experience first-hand how committed (and loving and rational) her dad really was, even if he was frustrated that his daughter just couldn't see it, even if he reacted with big emotions sometimes too.

Anyway, I'm not sure if the "joint" therapy sessions were really turning points, even if they were highly emotionally charged.  I think the real work happened in the background.  First off, my bet is that the therapist could see that though the daughter-parent relationship was strained, there was love and commitment from the parent, beyond merely paying the bills for the therapy sessions.  But perhaps more importantly, my BPD stepdaughter had authorized her therapist to share information with her dad.  I'm not saying that the therapist was breaching her client's trust.  Rather, my husband has been allowed to speak with with the therapist, over email and the phone sometimes, sort of a reality check, to understand if there's imminent danger (e.g. delusions/paranoia/acting unhinged) when communication has been lacking, and to fill in critical information gaps.  When my stepdaughter seemed really unhinged, my husband felt he could call the therapist and try to understand if something was going on that he didn't know about, and he supplied some information as well (for example, she deteriorated after quitting school/her job).  Sometimes they exchange insights, always with the goal of helping my BPD stepdaughter.  My guess is that my husband clarifies the record sometimes.  I think that between the therapist's expertise with BPD, her ability to read between the lines and get clarifications from her dad from time to time, she has a pretty good sense of what is going on and what needs some work.  In summary, I'd say that the therapist sees the primary parent as a chief ally in helping her client function day-to-day, and the therapist treats him accordingly.

Having written all that, I have some loose opinions about therapy as well.  Though my stepdaughter has made a lot of progress and turned her life around, I can't help but wonder if talk therapy is really working for her right now.  I'm skeptical that "talk therapy" works with BPD at all.  My thinking is that talk therapy can help people reach a deeper understanding of themselves, get clarity, maybe seek closure/acceptance and a way fowrard.  I guess the underlying premise is that therapy can help clarify thoughts around troubling feelings.  But with BPD, I suspect that the reverse is true:  intense emotions are generating troubling thoughts (sometimes delusions), and talking more about these feelings only seems to amplify the negative thought patterns/delusions, not resolve them.  When I see my stepdaughter, I can't help but see someone who gets stuck in a mental rut.  It's like she's ruminating so much about ancient grievances that she finds it bizarrly comforting, possibly a distraction from thinking about current issues and challenges?  Talk therapy makes her revisit these unpleasant feelings, and rather than resolve them, she's reliving them, getting riled up and getting even further ensconced in her mental rut?  Sometimes I think, she should focus less on remembering and thinking deeply, and much more on action.  Moving forward.  Doing something TODAY.  Focus on TODAY, not the past, not the distant (scary) future.  Think less, do a whole lot more, get moving.  It's as if therapy itself becomes a distraction.  For example, I could ask, How was your day?  The answer would be, I had therapy--an event that consumes the mental energy of an entire day.  Whereas here I am thinking, a walk in the park, a coffee with a friend and a part-time job would do more for her mental wellbeing, if only she would prioritize action over thought, if only she would de-emphasize feeling.  Sometimes it seems like she wears therapy like a badge of honor, an identity based on pain and victimhood without really overcoming it?  Now maybe this reflects my own issues, because I'm a doer more than a talker/feeler . . . I think that feelings are mostly fleeting, but results are what matter and last . . .

No idea if that's helpful, but just a different perspective I suppose.

Around here in peer support, we call what happened a "Blamefest".  Yes, this was a new experience for the therapist (T) but she should have learned from it and in the future she should know to step in and stop the Blaming cold.


Remember, the T is more than a moderator or link, the T is the {polite but firm} Authority.  It mustn't be abdicated to your daughter or there will be no progress.

Over in the Tools & Skills workshops board we have a couple topics on Boundaries.  The fact is that some of the many hallmarks of BPD are: self-oriented perceptions, Denial, Projection, Blaming and Blame Shifting.  So it's obvious there is extreme disrespect and outrageous blaming.

But pwBPD also resist Boundaries.  So instead we place boundaries on ourselves, for us to follow.  In essence our boundary is our response to poor behavior.  In your case, your boundary was to exit a bad scenario.  That was entirely proper.  Frankly, the T should totally understand that you need that boundary.  However, it likely will require multiple instances of exercising your proper boundary for your daughter to accept it, well, sometimes, maybe.

Also, if not mentioned before, another aspect is the Karpman Drama Triangle (also found in Tools and Skills workshops) where there is a claimed victim (daughter), perceived persecutor (you) and stuck-in-the-middle savior (therapist).

Hi PathFinder1,

Did you say that his rants of anger are never directed at you? If he is not hostile/aggressive, then this should be kind of easier to handle. You would just have to validate his feelings and slowly make him feel comfortable expressing himself in a constructive way. But to improve his self-image and self-worth, he would need professional treatment, I guess.

When you ask "how to handle this pattern," are you trying to help him or to help yourself? I mean, it's unclear if you are getting affected by this or not.

PS: my previous message got broken, so I'm resending

She has left today. Our last day together wasn't too bad. Things are going ok, as planned. Here is what she has just sent me:



This is the translation to English:

“I love you, [name], I’m with you, I’m with you.”
“<crying face><heart>”
“I love you, okay? I’m crying here.”
“Because I wanted to be there.”
“But I’m going to do everything possible to have peace here, to get better… not to lose my temper, etc.”

It seems like I won't have to worry much about enforcing boundaries now, but I'm worried about our time together. If things go well, then the next step would be to invite her to spend the weekend here at my place. But I'm afraid she could get angry with something and become disrespectful, then I'll get frustrated and not want her here anymore, and she will pick up my emotion and escalate her anger and maybe even refuse to leave. I need to find a solution for this problem.

She has left today. Our last day together wasn't too bad. Things are going ok, as planned. Here is what she has just sent me:



This is the translation to English:

“I love you, [name], I’m with you, I’m with you.”
“

There is a legal process that likely your lawyer can explain more thoroughly than I can.  The short explanation is that once a final decree is made then the court order - custody and parenting details - is considered the final one.

That is why our collective wisdom in peer support is that we more reasonably normal parents need to seek the best (or least bad) initial temp order and the same for the final decree's adjustments.  The best for our children, which of course means the best for the reasonably normal parent.  We still have to deal with the disordered parent but that's less of a priority.

But the other parent is still disordered.  And no order works perfectly over time no matter how had we try.  The way to make a subsequent change in the USA is to file for Change of Circumstances.  To make a major change of custody is a big deal, legally speaking.  Basically it says that the existing order is unworkable, why you need a greater amount of legal authority in custody and/or the parenting schedule and solutions you propose to improve a new order.

In my case we had already made use of a child psychiatrist who was the evaluator in our Custody Evaluation.  For my Change of Circumstances we used a Guardian ad Litem, a child's advocate.  Ours was a respected GAL, I was fortunate since some claiming to be GALs may be new lawyers inexperienced with resolving the parent/child relationships.

However, I noticed that my GAL and the judge tried to play both sides, so neither of us won but neither lost either.  At the time we each had equal custody and equal parenting time.  I had filed for custody as well as majority parenting time.  Well, I gained custody (guardianship) but my ex didn't lose equal parenting time.  The GAL explained it would allow ex to continue getting child support.

It still wasn't a fix but it was better.  My authority, previously disrespected and obstructed, was a bit more clearly defined.  A couple years later, after her disparagement and playing games with exchanges continued, I went back to court and got majority parenting schedule too.

Got it in one. I think the prevalence might come from how blatant autistic people can be. There’s really no need to read social cues or in between the lines because there is none. If we’re upset we’ll say it, if we need something we ask, etc. I think the other thing might be the pattern recognition. Being able to figure out what triggers our pwBPD and how to help or be better. Especially with the cyclical nature of what splits and breakdowns can look like (at least I’ve noticed with my bf).
That being said the biggest issue I have is adapting to the unpredictable nature of BPD. I’m looking for rules and guidelines with so many things but what’s okay one day might not be the next.
When I was reading “The Autistics Guide to Self-Discovery” by Sol Smith, he had a part talking about how it’s hard from autistic people to deal with conflict with others because of the practical nature of their thinking. He described it as the hypothetical argument being a stage. Most autistic people will want to pause the “scene”, step back, look behind the curtains and figure out what’s really going on and what’s behind everything. I absolutely see myself in this analogy.
I think especially when you have a “scene partner” with BPD it can be even more infuriating for them to have us do so because they are so caught up in what is happening on stage.
I’ve found that sometimes even the smallest little arguments can turn into something bigger, mostly because they will say something that makes me think of something else. I’ll ask the why behind certain ways of saying things or reactions they had and it will just cause a bigger issue.
The hardest part is that I know that due to their fragile sense of identity they seem to see any question of reaction or idea as an attack on them when in reality it just comes from my curiosity and willingness to understand them and their way of thinking.
It’s even worse when later they’ve completely moved on from it but I still have questions or concerns about stuff.
Idk I’m rambling but this has been a pattern I’ve seen.

ChoosingPeace, this therapist isn't her "personal" therapist. She has one of those that she found on the same platform. This therapist was only supposed to be a "family therapist", but she's nonetheless taken appointments with my daughter seperate from me, and has stayed online with me at times that my daughter logged off of a session. I don't really want to make this about the therapist, although I really seen or heard anything from her that has impressed me, especially the not even attempting to lay down or enforce ground rules for communication. She's definitely not what my daughter or I need though, and I have no problem telling her that. BPD is a complex mental health disorder and it needs to be addressed by a provider who fully understands it and can competently treat it.