Superdaddy -

Interesting.

One comment is that a double standard definitely exists here.  She is already jealous and possessive of this potential love interest for not being monogamous herself.  She says it would be fine for me to date someone else, but I suspect that reply is a self-justification of her own desires.  Really, if I was to date other women, there wouldn’t be much point in remaining married.  W doesn’t provide much to this R/s as it is.  Plus, it would not be fair to any new partner.

Hi maxsterling ,

Firstly, please check those quotes from this study (full PDF version):

- "BPD-associated symptoms, such as substance abuse, anorexia, self-injury, depersonalization, and sexual overstimulation, can be treated successfully with opioid receptor antagonists."
- "Frequent and risky sexual contacts and attention-seeking behavior can be explained by efforts to make use of the rewarding effects of human attachment mediated by the EOS, which are also the reason why patients show frantic efforts to avoid abandonment."

In my opinion, all of that is part of a hypersexual behavior that targets stimulating her EOS. It's the same for my wife.

My wife has never been bisexual or anything like that. However, in the beginning of our relationship I noticed she was watching porn videos every day and lying about it. Then I noticed some of the titles indicated they were lesbian videos, but not all. I questioned her about that behavior and asked if she was not satisfied sexually in our relationship. She was having multiple orgasms with me, so I was intrigued. Shortly after, she stopped watching the videos.

Recently, years later, I have noticed she is doing this again, but now she watches only lesbian videos. My conclusion is that she feels like watching lesbian videos is a way of fulfilling her hypersexual stimulation without having to deal with the guilt of doing something unfaithful. Because she knows that her watching lesbian videos does not make me feel uncomfortable and that I would even be ok if she had an actual lesbian relationship. But that's me.

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Secondly, I'd suggest you read the "Sex at Dawn" book. It explains how humans were primarily non-monogamous before the advent of agriculture. This has helped me to understand what jealousy is, allowing me to take full control over those feelings.

Soon after reading this book, I had an open relationship, and it was great, but both of us were more in the exploration zone rather than trying to build a family. An open marriage (polyamory) is much more serious and requires complete honesty from both parties and also requires both to have "nerves of steel" (well, at least for the partner who is being "supplanted" by someone else).

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Conclusion:

Have you ever asked her why she is seeking a female partner instead of a male partner? Have you asked her what she would think if you also had a secondary partner?

Personally, I'd think that having a lesbian affair instead of a heterosexual affair is, from her perspective, a midterm solution to have her EOS stimulated without overly insulting you. From my interpretation of that study, I believe an opioid receptor antagonist medication could possibly put an end to her need to follow this path. And I would think that this is more likely to happen if specialized therapy is done along with the medication.

Really helpful advice here.  The “conversion” right now is as follows:

- i should have known she was this way when I married her.
- i am depriving her of who she is.
- she doesn’t want to hurt me or break up our family.
- I don’t go along with this because I have been brainwashed by society for having traditional monogamy views.
- if i don’t go along with this I am controlling her and she might as well kill herself.
-if I file for divorce she won’t except 50/50 parenting time and if that is awarded she might as well kill herself

It’s clear blame shifting to avoid her own shame.  I think on a deep level is bringing up shame from her past.  She may be realizing her failure in previous relationships was due to her inability to be monogamous.

But here’s another big red flag - she has been reading a book about open relationships, and I think that is validating for her, and where her language about me being brainwashed by society came from.  The red flag is that the woman she is interested in pointed to her book.  So while W claims the other woman is not trying to break up our marriage, clearly that is bit the case.

I think that sums up this kind of thinking. I think a lot of BPD behavior is about them, driven by their own emotions and thinking, and not as personal to the other person. Our ability to do anything about it is limited. Our part is to decide what we are going to do about it.

I learned that boundaries are best expressed in "I" terms. What am I going to do, rather than "you" terms.

Once a boundary is stated, there's no point in continuing circular discussions. The next steps are your own actions.

This would be an example of the boundary in "I"terms:

"I acknowlege that you wish to have an open marriage. I have thought about this and I don't want to have an open marriage".

Her reply: "you are forcing monogamy on me".

Your reply: "Monogamy in marriage is an important value to me. I am not going to have a relationship with someone outside the marriage. I don't agree with your wish to do so,  but I also don't control what you do. This is my answer. I don't wish to discuss this idea further."

Then you don't discuss it more.

She may react, make you the problem. All you did was state your boundary for yourself.

I think she knows that what she is doing isn't according to the marriage you both entered into. Pw BPD have a difficult time with the emotion of shame. To handle this- she has to have you be the one in the wrong.

Your fidelity, your ethics, may irk her because she may want you to do this, or agree to it to justify her own actions. You keep your own boundary in check for yourself. My 2 cents- if you were to do the same, have a relationship with another person, I think she'd react very poorly to that but it's not worth the complication or effect on your own self esteem to violate your own values to do so.

I am saying this on the premise you are not going to divorce your wife over this at this point. Nor do you want to have an open marriage. So there's no point in continued circular discussions over this or therapy sessions. That just gives attention to it and it's not going to change what she chooses. If you hold your ground, this puts the decision back in her court. It's hers, not yours.

In his first marriage to a uBPD/NPD woman, she began affairs about 18 months after the marriage. The marriage became "open," not because he agreed but because he chose not to leave because of the children. At one point, there was some doubt as to whether he was the bio father of one of the children, but fortunately we now know he is.

During one of their conversations about her sexual behavior, she said,

"I know it's wrong, and I know it hurts you, but it's what I want, so I'm going to do it."

That summed it up. She's now in her 60s and continues the same behavior.

Hi Ridethestorm,

what you have described does not sound like BPD, but ofcorse BPD can coexist with other psychiatric illnesses…
However, you report your husband stopped taking meds and is lying to  GP. Did you consider callin/telling GP what is really going on, maybe GP will have some advice for you, maybe GP can talk to your husbandt... The fact that he is not going to job anymore only after  5 wreks worries me.
If he would be in danger of harming himself or another person, also financially, you could also get him hospitalised in psychiatric ward…

Hi Ridethestorm ,

It's unclear if he has BPD because you have not clearly described any BPD symptom. But you can go through the DSM criteria and count for yourself how many of the BPD symptoms you think he has. For instance, my ex and my current wife hit 8 to 9 of the 9 items, so it's very easy to identify. The hallucinations are not part of the criteria and could be part of a psychotic disorder, but he could have both.


Did you talk to his family, or is he the one who speaks for his family? My wife used to say lots of stuff on behalf of her family just to provoke me, but they were not true or were exaggerations.

One of the hardest things to do was to say "no" to my BPD mother. However, she'd sometimes push a boundary in increments to the point where I felt I had to say "no". Then, she'd react as if I had hurt her somehow. That felt terrible. I would not intentionally do something hurtful to my mother.

You wouldn't do something intentionally hurtful to your wife. Nobody wants to be the bad guy in the Karpman triangle with someone we care about, but I realized that, if I was going to have boundaries, I would have to also accept that she may think that way, (but that doesn't make it true).

Boundaries are about us, we can't control someone else. If marital fidelity is one of your values, you can't waver on it in your own actions. Your wife will do as she chooses.

Boundaries also involve knowing what is "you" and what isn't "you". It's possible to be firm about monogomy and also open minded about other people's choices but know they aren't for you. In a way, your wife may have perceived your being open minded as you not having objections to her having a same sex romantic relationship. Your wife has poor boundaries. If you also don't have clear boundaries, then it's unclear for both of you.

I think what is confusing here is the incremental shift from your wife having a female friend to having a romantic female friend. If this had been a male friend, perhaps your feelings, and where the line was crossed, would have been clearer to you. It's OK for your wife to have a friendship with other females. You can be open minded about having both gay and straight friends. It's an issue if your marriage is monogomous and the friendship becomes romantic.

While I don't personally agree with the extent of what my father tolerated, it also wasn't my relationship to decide on or understand. I know it took a lot for him to be in the relationship. It also would have taken a lot for him to get out of it and also I think he knew how emotionally fragile my mother was. I see some similarities to your position here. On one hand, this could be a deal breaker but you may not wish to go in that direction at this time.

From what I can see- I don't think you are OK with an open marriage. Where you need time to process, is what you decide you wish to do about her request. You can still keep your value about monogamy for yourself.

My best wild guess is that "this too shall pass" and if it doesn't- then her sexual orientation isn't anything you could have done differently to change.

My husband was, as far as he told me, diagnosed with bpd, tho he now says he wasn't?!? I took him back to try again cos there's lots of history m love there. He stopped taking his meds told gp he's still on them, and his therapy stopped. He got a job cos I said he needed to contribute financially. He did it for five weeks, then quit. I'm really worried about him now tho as he spends his days talking to chatgpt and researching the occult. He now says there's messages coded for him in occult books. He's having grandiose thoughts that he's a genius. I can't get him to go to drs as he thinks it's me who doesn't get it. His family say I'm a narcissist trying to control him and anything he does or says is fine. Just don't know what to do. Any ideas appreciated x

Very helpful, Wendy.  Thank you.

Part of my problem is that I am naturally an open minded person.  But BPDw wants black and white.  My open mindedness says that I need to consider pros and cons and options.  So I tell her that I cannot say right now that I am opposed to the idea of an open marriage, but this is sudden and I need time to process.  W takes this as a “green light” and moves forward, placing me into a situation that goes against my open minded nature by having to Say “no”.  I feel forced into the black and white world.

It’s a mess.  But I need to remember she is the one wanting to make the relationship change.  She is the one applying the pressure.  I can tell her I need more time to process and that is ok.  She can interpret however she wants, and take the action she wants.