That's interesting.  That might explain the loop that repeats, no matter how much pain his words or actions cause,  it's not enough for him to stop the behavior.  It's followed by either later acting like nothing happened, or occasionally tearful apologies. Never resolution and the rest of us are supposed to sweep it under the rug until the next blow up.

He used substances before I met him, probably all of his teen years plus, and a sibling was almost killed which changed the family dynamics.  I surely think that all had an impact on his emotional and mind development.

I like to dig and dig to find answers so it's foreign to me that other people aren't so inclined!  If your life is a mess, why wouldn't you search for why that is?  I guess because parts of the mind are hidden even from the owner. The mind is mind boggling. ;)

Pefect- you didn't try to control her going out. This took away her need to push back. You were not attempting to control her decision. The rest was up to her.

I was thinking of suggesting that some time to yourself could be a possible "benefit" to her going out, but of course, it's not a reason for her to date other people. Still, you were able to relax and get some self care rather than fret over what she may or may not be doing.

You simply asked how it was. You didn't question more, pry, or get angry, or emotionally react.

As what can happen- the reality of her meeting with this person didn't match what she imagined it would be like. By not trying to stop her, you allowed her to figure this out herself. When she was away from you, her actions were up to her.

I also don't think the drama is over because, this is just one manifestation of your wife's BPD drama. However, you handled this well and hopefully can use some of these skills in other situations with her.



 

It seems like she didn't make many years of DBT. Maybe in the 90s, BPD was too stigmatized, or someone stigmatized her. Maybe a romantic partner? Anyway, you might be in the best position to make her feel comfortable again in going through more DBT.

Apart from that, I think part of what creates the need for this behavior is her unconscious goal of upsetting you and starting a major conflict. Because this is one of the few ways she can effectively get you out of balance. Does that make sense?

There is an explanation for all of this, which came out in 2010 but was ignored because it is too technical and there was no proof, just a theory. But for me it explains everything:
https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2010-06891-012

The full content can be purchased, but it has been available on Scribd.com since 2023.

So, based on this theory, their chronic depression comes from an underactive endogenous opioid system, and what makes them interpret things in a way that makes them angry is an unconscious attempt to stimulate it.

So it's not that his PTSD makes him angry, but it may be used as an excuse. Or he might even try to retraumatize himself.

For instance, before knowing me, my wife traumatized herself by spending the night at the beach in a bikini. She says that it got too late, so the subway had closed, and she didn't have money to pay for a cab. Obviously she was putting herself at risk, and there were other solutions. During the night, she got her phone robbed and went through sexual assault. For the rest of the night, she tried to stay crouched to avoid being seen by other men. As a result, she developed a specific phobia around walking. But specific phobias are relatively easy to treat, and I have tried all possible ways of healing her from it, but nothing works because unconsciously she doesn't want to let go of the trauma. Instead, she keeps doing avoidance behavior, which worsens it. There were times in which we had to use a wheelchair. Now we use just mullets, but it's very limiting. She has already cried about not being able to heal from it and said that I didn't deserve to go through this. But it is her unconscious mind that doesn't allow her to heal. After trying regular psychotherapy and hypnotherapy, I found out that EMDR was ideal for her. She loves her EMDR therapist but kept avoiding the intense sessions, then stopped attending EMDR sessions. As I insisted, she rescheduled, but when her EMDR therapy was finally about to heal her with another intensive session, she missed it. And during the exact time of the therapy, she insisted that she wanted to go to the beach by herself. Guess what? It was unconscious, but she wanted to traumatize herself again. This is self-destructive and similar to a suicide attempt, but the goal is just to stimulate their EOS.

Two days from now, she will start a low-dosage off-label pharmacological treatment, and I am hoping it will fix this biochemical issue. If I'm right, then in a few weeks she should not feel the need to follow those patterns anymore. Then she would allow her brain to rewire in healthier ways. Otherwise, if the pharmacological treatment is not effective, then maybe it will take a few years of DBT before we can live together again.

Hopefully this helps you to make some sense of the nonsense.

My wife was diagnosed BPD as a teenager - that was probably about 1990.  She went thru DBT then, and probably off and on until her late 20s.  Without it, she would probably be dead by now, so in that regard it was a success.  Then sometime in her late 20s, another T diagnosed her with PTSD.  Since then, W has latched onto that diagnosis.  It's either the internal shame she feels over BPD, the need to downplay BPD to not scare others away, or the fact that PTSD garners a victim response, rather than an aspect of her personality that is flawed.  But very, very clearly W checks all the boxes for BPD.

This has played a role in the recent events.  W seems unwilling to look at the role her personality (and personal trauma) plays in what she is feeling now.  Instead, it seems she is trying to accept her being a person who likes to sleep around as normal and natural as a way to justify her urges, and others who do not (such as me) as out of touch with themselves.  In her mind, it seems she feels much of her "trauma" stems from a lack of acceptance from herself and others for who she is.  It's not the normal "actions have consequences" thinking that most of us have. 

In other words :  Sleeping around is more likely to bring emotional drama and trauma, whether that be biological or cultural, it is the way life works in our society.  In W's disordered mind:  Sleeping around brings trauma and drama only because other people are cruel.  The irony is that W might have had a casual sexual relationship, then feel hurt that the other person did not want an emotional connection.  For W, that is trauma because the other person backed away. 

Most people understand that and learn from our mistakes and step away from situations that in the moment may be exciting, but we know long term will only cause grief.  W seems, for the moment, to be in a state of mind that is at least partially receptive to that.  Her interest in polyamorous relationships is based upon her short term emotional urges rather than what is good for the long term.  She was at least able to admit that in some wat this morning.  Progress, but without a professional to help process it she is likely back to her previous mindset in a few day s or weeks. 

Hi SuperDaddy,

Setting boundaries is getting easier for me, I am able to detach more instead of letting emotions get the best of me.  It's easier with our daughter I mentioned above as she doesn't live at home, harder being in the same house together with my husband, like it is for you  living with your wife.

I'm not sure I would say our counseling has had a whole lot of success, especially couples. Individual has helped me some. I feel he goes just enough to give me hope things will get better then he quits.  We've been to some who have said we would get to the bottom of his anger, which he acknowledges he uses as a tool, so far that hasn't happened and his anger is still caused by me, according to him.  He does blow up at other people too. 

Last night I quietly asked him to do something, made sure I was clear in what I was saying and it was a request, not a demand.  He blew up and brought it up this morning and once again he anger was because I looked angry/rude, in short all my fault he responded in anger.  I've said for years I will never get it right, "it" being how I speak or look, or whatever his perception is and justifies his anger.  He can't hear well and it's my job to make sure he hears me, I said if you go to the doctor and get your hearing tested and a hearing aid won't help, then I will accommodate you by speaking louder and/or making sure you can see my lips.  (I'm either not speaking loud enough or I'm yelling)

I also have hopes for our future as we continue to watch sermons and he likes to say a prayer before he  leaves for the day.  That's HUGE for him! He has searched for sermons for men also, found some darn good ones.

 During that quiet time before the prayer he did listen when I suggested that maybe his anger is because he has PTSD (he has some understanding of what PTSD from interacting with our daughter) and how helpful it could be if he talked to someone and worked through it.  I can see how unhappy he is, I believe he holds deep shame, not sure he has PTSD, the BPD and NPD makes the most sense, I would love it if he got a professional diagnosis.

maxsterling ,

That's good. This can make your life easier. But you need to take this opportunity to guide her into DBT. Hopefully, you can pay that for her.

I used ChatGPT to find all therapists nearby that do DBT, got the messaging contact of all of them, added them to an online spreadsheet, and asked my wife to contact them. She was going too slow, so I contacted them myself and asked about the price for each one of them. She went for the cheapest and finally scheduled it.

The possibility of her staying for good was not on the table, and she knew it. It is true that after the 2nd night, she became stressed about the idea of leaving when she felt like here was her home. That may have added some internal tension to her because she was hoping that I could change my mind. During her ranting, she did say that this is her house. She also said all of the other nonsense that comes along with this. Such as saying that I should leave instead of her (which does not make sense since I would have to rent another place for me, and she would not be able to pay the rent of our current home).

But this was not the issue. The discussion began when I questioned her about a bottle of juice that I was storing to make kombucha, and she opened it. Then she immediately felt defensive and started to overreact. Then I explained something like these words:

"I was locking up stuff when you were here because I could not get to an agreement with you, or you would not follow the agreement, and after you left I had unlocked it because I thought I would not have to worry about this anymore. And before you returned, I told you that you would have to understand that this is my space now, and I thought you had understood and respected that, but it seems like you took the opportunity that it was unlocked to check in it."

Since she was already overreacting, I had to send my message by talking in the same fashion as her so that I wasn't interrupted. So I did not use a calm tone of voice at all (I hate when she interrupts me over and over, especially when she tries to finish my sentences with a completely different continuation). Anyway, after this, the apocalypse began.

Update:

My T encouraged me to avoid circular conversations on this issue, saying that after W knows my position on this, her actions are up to her and any further discussion is simply a waste of emotional energy.  I agree with that.  The past week I was open to talking with W about this other woman, was open with W talking with or spending time with this other woman so long as the conversation between me and W was not about "open relationships" or non-monogamy and W's time spent with the other woman did not cross the boundary into a physical relationship of which I had stated a clear boundary. 

I had prepared myself for how to deal with that boundary being crossed.  In my mind that would end the r/s and I was okay with that.  Somehow in my mind I knew that with my W's new relationship BPD would suddenly show its face in short time.  And it did.

W wanted to go out with this woman last night after the kids went to sleep.  She asked me if that was OK, and I said that was fine with me.  Frankly, I was happy to be away from conflict and drama for a few hours.  I watched a movie and did a little self-care (felt fantastic!).  I was asleep when she came home. 

This morning I asked if she had a good time, and I learned that the BPD traits came to the surface.  W was upset because she found out the other woman was also pursuing another r/s at the same time, and that other r/s was getting serious.  W now seems to be recognizing and analyzing a double standard and recognizing her own self-destructive emotions.  I did my best to explain those emotions are natural and the reason why I know that a polyamorous relationship would never work for me.  Now W has completely lost interest in seeing the other woman.  Now W is opening up about other various "red flags", and it's pretty clear to me that the other woman is probably emotionally unstable herself and it is probably a good thing for all involved that things wind down now.

I don't expect the drama to be over, but at least for now W is recognizing her own disordered thoughts and emotions and may be open to a different kind of therapy approach. 

That's a trick question because "normal conversation" between two people and "normal conversation" for someone with BPD is two very different things.

Your ex left the relationship because of things he felt, and there's a good chance he was making a mental list of everything wrong with the marriage and how you could ultimately be at fault.  That doesn't mean any of it is true, but he's convinced himself of that narrative and it can often take years to get them to see it any differently.

For now though, the path is more about you healing from an unhealthy marriage to someone that's mentally ill.  At the moment, things are out of your hands so it makes more sense to focus on you.  Use this time to reflect, to heal, and make lifestyle choices that will set you up for long-term happiness and success. 

Maybe he's part of that picture down the road, maybe not.  Today you should focus on what you can control today (which is you).  The rest can wait for another day.