Hope you don't mind but I've relocated this thread to another board. It should receive a better response at "Romantic Relationship | Detaching and Learning after a Failed Relationship". Here is the link: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=3061562.0

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Thanks so much for your responses - I'm still figuring this out and coult not figure out how to reply to each message individually, so count this for both. I like the 5 actions, and the fact that I will fail at them before I get them right, that gives me HUGE permission to be human. My son is an adult - he is almost 40, and has only lived on his own for 6 months. He cannot get along with other people - friends, employers, family, store clerks, people at the gas pump, other drivers - he is down to me and my husband, who is not his birth father.  That makes it really tough - he cannot keep a job, it always ends up in a blowup and he quits or walks out. Family members are cordial to him if necessary, but that's it. Friends - nah, those went by the wayside long ago. He does have a passion, and that is cannabis - grows it, smokes it, spends hours each day taking care of his plants, who cannot talk back to him.

As far as boundaries, I've been unsuccessful at setting them, but am resolved to get better, no matter how many attempts it takes. I personally feel I need therapy as well to deal with my own reactions, and turns out I got an appointment for Monday so I feel really good about that.

Again, thanks so much for the kind words from everyone. I will be reading lots and learning lots, and I look forward to an improved, not perfect, life. (Although I will say i get jealous when other people have sons who are successful.) I should also say I have a daughter who is not BPD or NPD, she is high functioning in every area of her life. I am grateful for her in mirroring that I was not a failure as a mother.

Did this.  I sued after 2 years of divorce to flip custody (i.e. make myself the primary custodian).  Initially made some progress; judge ordered us to mediation immediately.  The mediator (a retired judge) said that if this case had got to her with the facts of the situation, she would be chewing my ex-wife out, and telling her she needed to get a grip on herself. 

She also said she and her partner (another retired judge) had a half-dozen cases like mine over the years, and while a judge might not flip custody,  she said they had seen juries do it - i.e. a jury would go further than the judge would.  She said something like these were cases with a bitter ex-wife constantly bad mouthing the father, trying to turn the kids against him, blowing through child support, etc. and all ruled for the father.  That surprised me. 

So I was able to get a couple temporary changes to our custody arrangement that benefitted me, and made things a little better.  And with the threat of the lawsuit hanging over her, BPDxw started behaving better. 

Then my attorney, who was from the county over - and from a prestigious big money divorce boutique law firm - got circles run around her by my wife's attorney. 

We pushed for a GAL attorney for my daughter.  BPDxw's attorney suggested one, and my attorney agreed.  I later learned this GAL attorney had been fired from her previous job for chronic absenteeism, and was basically relying on favors like this from BPDxw's attorney for cash.  She took forever to schedule appointments, didn't show up, and had what I considered to be improper social contacts with BPDxw at her house, like going over for dinner and things like that. 

That took up a year, after which time it was like "okay, what was this all about again?" 

My attorney started neglecting the case, and giving me lousy advice (she should've told me my best bet was to take my earlier wins and make them permanent in a settlement agreement).  Instead she allowed it to go along for another year and a half, at which point in time BPDxw's attorney was able to get it dismissed completely. 

So my advice:

- if a GAL is appointed, it better be someone your attorney has vetted and knows to be professional and impartial
- strike while the iron's hot.  Do not let things settle.  Time is not on your side
- you might have to take a settlement for less than you wanted, but you can always file another lawsuit, and something is better than nothing. 

Hi there,

You've come to the right place.  If you read some posts, I bet many of the stories will resonate.

Based on what you've posted, my guess is that your son is a young adult and hasn't figured out how to support himself yet, correct?  I'm writing that because it sounds like you're having frequent (daily?) interactions with him, mostly negative ones.  My guess is that he either lives with you or lives nearby, and he still acts highly dependent on you, probably asking you for money all the time.  Does that sound about right?  I bet he's learned that by acting out and bullying you, he gets you to give him more money, whether to bail him out of a mess, to keep him off the streets and/or to assuage your guilt.  The thing is, deep down he RESENTS feeling dependent on you, so he's mean to you while stretching out his hand for money and/or support.  But when you reward his belligerent behavior, he's incentivized to continue, because the alternative (finishing school, working full-time, delaying gratification) feels impossible to him.  Every demand seems to come with over-the-top anger, right?  That's because his emotional intelligence is lacking, and he's overpowered by negative thinking.  He's lacking the emotional skills to manage his adult life, such as handling his strong feelings, planning, tolerating distress, resolving conflicts, focussing on tasks at hand, dealing with disappointments, patiently taking things one day at a time, basically doing things he doesn't necessarily want to do because that's what adults do.  Emotionally, he probably still feels like a young kid--ruled by self-centeredness, impulsiveness, lacking empathy, super-sized feelings, difficulty handling criticism, avoiding responsibility, impatience, blowing things out of proportion.  Meanwhile, deep down he feels intense shame, but because it's too painful to bear, he deflects and blames other people for all his problems.  His main target is YOU.  Let me guess, your son always thinks he's a victim.  If that's the case, it's not surprising because the victim attitude is a hallmark of BPD.
 
One statement stands out to me in your post:  that your son thinks he's in control.  My guess is that is "projection" about his own deep concerns about his NOT being in control of his life or his emotions.  He's so insecure and worried about not finding his way in the world that everything he perceives is in terms of control.  What does he do?  His preoccupation slips out in his statements.  In addition, he tries to control YOU, to compensate for the lack of control in his own life.  Let me guess, he demands that you're there for him at all hours, to do things for him whenever he wants, and he throws a fit if you decline to help right away.  Meanwhile, he claims he's an adult, he can do anything he wants to, and yet he still needs you to help him get what he wants, and he refuses to face the consequences of his decisions.  Alas, acting out and treating you badly doesn't make him feel any better in the long run, because his emotions are all over the place and his life looks dysfunctional.  Does that sound about right?  Maybe if you understand where his perverse thinking is coming from, it could help you realize that IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.

Now about you.  BPD behaviors can rip families apart--it's understandable that you feel desperate/stressed out/anxiety-ridden/hopeless/financially strained/burnt out/grieving/fearful/exhausted/terrorized/bullied/manipulated/resentful/guilty/a failure as a parent.  Did I miss anything?  Look, first and foremost, you need to priortize yourself and your well-being.  Your son is an adult, he's responsible for him, and you are responsible for you.  You CANNOT "fix" your son, and you cannot control his feelings.  But you can help guide him and support him and love him in a calmer, healthier way.  Yet you're no good for him if you're a basket case, operating in a FOG of fear, obligation and guilt.  He needs a calm, loving parent who doesn't get "sucked in" to all the drama.  He needs a healthy parent to model for him what a healthy adult's life looks like.  That includes getting therapy for you if you think you need it.  That includes having a peaceful home, sound finances, a loving marriage and time for friends and hobbies too.  That includes not letting people treat you like dirt, because you are worthy of being treated nicely.  How does that sound?

Hi Hereforthelove,

Yes I remember the feeling of being anxious a lot of time when my udd was a teen and lived at home but you dont have to live that way. You could make an apt with your gp and see what counselling services they provide.

Hi Anon,

I have dealt with something similar.  My udd actually left my 2 gc's with me (unknown to me at the time)to go to another country to meet someone she met online posting enroute that she couldnt wait to be with "her first love"". Nevermind  to mention years before that that the first b/f father to the 2gc had been her "first love" and "Always and forever"
Thankfully it didnt work out but it didnt stop her from jumping online and trying again.

Currently we are estranged but It did begin to became harder to keep recovering from the endless drama the older I got, so this estrangement has been kind of a blessing in disguise.

From my experience your dd is probably in a state of desperation and whatever concerns you vocalise about this r/s wont be taken too well because she in "love" . Chances are this r/s wont last as is will be a Long Distance R/S and will probably fizzel out pretty soon so try not to get too upset by it. The best thing is to stay neutral by using a grey rock technique  where you express little emotion to the listener. She will soon move on once you are showing no interest. Another thing you can do practically if you are not in support of this r/s and are funding these plane trips, accommodation, food while away etc..... is to use that money for your own benefit. Spend it on yourself or something you enjoy and let your dd figure out her own to pay her own expenses.

I think you deserve a break and  having some  boundaries when it comes to your dd's emotionally dysregulation will help you in the long term so you can focus on your own mental health and wellbeing.

Hello and welcome to the family!  I'm so glad you found us and you're absolutely in the right place.

A few questions first- how old is your son?  I'm guessing he lives with you, is that right?  And has he ever received any therapy or treatment?  I'm guessing there's no diagnosis since you said "traits" (which is fine, by the way, the diagnosis really isn't that important in the grand scheme of things).

Now, about what to do.  That's tough without knowing his age since the advice would vary drastically.  But at the same time, this really isn't about him as much as it is about you.  So let's talk about a few general "rules" that can help you find some sanity within your home.

Rule #1- Stop arguing completely.  If he yells, screams, rants, threatens, etc, your response should be love and compassion.  Why?  Because he's mentally ill and he's lashing out at an unfair world.  He blames you because he can't bear the thought of blaming himself and his spiraling emotions.

Rule #2- You'll fail miserably at rule #1 for quite some time.  We all did...and still do.  That's okay, but the "no arguing" still stands.  He argues because he's in a disordered state where logic shuts off and feelings take over.  The words he says are likely untrue, but the feelings behind it is real.  He's like a baby throwing a temper tantrum....and what do we do with babies?  We soothe them, we calm them down, we tell them that everything's going to be okay.

Now, that doesn't mean to ever, ever validate the words he's saying.  You validate the emotions instead.  I'm so sorry you're upset, I'm so sorry that you're struggling right now...tell me how I can help.

Rule #3- You'll fail miserably at rule #2 for quite some time.  We all did...and still do.  So when he's disordered and your compassionate approach fails, you still don't stand there and argue.  You retreat.  Literally anywhere.  If he won't back off, drive around the block or go buy a milkshake.  The goal is to let him calm down, to regulate his feelings so he can think logically again.  Fighting charges his emotions and makes things even worse, so we don't fight.  We love and if necessary, we back off to let them calm down.

Rule #4- You'll fail miserably at rule #3 for quite some time.  We all did...and still do.  That's okay though.  As a parent, your job is to teach right from wrong...and it's 1,000x more important with a BPD child.  You must have crystal clear boundaries and enforce them the exact same way every time. 

For instance, with my kid is was always clean your room before asking to go somewhere on the weekends.  And she'd never clean her room...mainly to spite me.  Friday would come and she'd scream, manipulate, argue, threaten to run away, etc. while calling me the worst father in the world.  But you know what, I took it and I told her, "Look, I want you to go have fun with your friends, I really do.  It's your decision though- just clean your room and you can go."

Your rules (boundaries) should be as absolute as gravity...they can't change.  But you teach your son that he's the one making all the decisions, he's the one deciding to make things harder on himself.  Just do what you're asked and you get rewarded; why would you not want that?

My kid's psychiatrist actually taught my daughter at 16 to use manipulation the right way to get what she wanted.  He said, if your dad tells you that you have to do something, smile and do it...even though you can't stand him.  Then you'll get rewarded and the joke's on him.  It's a twisted way at looking at things, but it absolutely worked.

Rule #5-  You'll fail miserably at rule #4 for quite some time.  We all did...and still do.  But as long as you're learning not to argue, not to invalidate feelings, and you're taking some "me time" when necessary, it will start to get easier.  The big game-changer is focusing more on your own mental health and doing things that benefit you both physically and mentally.  It's easier said than done for sure, but hopefully in time you'll be able to let go of that nervous anxiety and the burdens that come along with it.

When my BPD marriage started to fall apart, I was exactly the same way.  I took up a mantra though that "this too shall pass."  I reminded myself every day that what I felt was only for right now, it's not for forever.  And then I just got through my day the best I could.

Yoga is great....but hopefully you're going somewhere for it and not staying home alone.  The choir is also awesome since it's community.  Lean on that as much as you can.  Get out and about as much as possible, even if it's just going for a 20 minute walk or something like that.  Exercise is obviously a big benefit physically, but it also releases chemicals that help our mental health as well.

What not to do- too much "alone time" watching TV or sitting home on a phone or computer enhances depression.  So you've got to get moving doing anything.  When I went through that, I volunteered at a local pet shelter and I actually really enjoyed helping the animals and having some responsibility (I lost my job as well).

I hope that helps and please keep talking this out...even if it's just a rant.  It's good to get things off your chest and you won't be judged here.

Hi Zoogman ,

I have read a lot of books on BPD, and I can tell you none of them has a solution. All they can help with is to not feed into the drama. Another way of looking at the problem is by understanding the EOS theory: https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2010-06891-012

What this study tells you is that by doing extreme actions such as self-harm, the pwBPD can stimulate their own EOS without interacting with anyone else. However, by interacting with someone else, it's much easier to cause this stimulation of the EOS, especially if that's an intimate partner. And they are always unaware of why they are doing that.

When things get bad enough, the only solution for the intimate partner is to live apart. That's exactly what has solved the problem for me. My wife still does lots of drama through text messages but those don't bother me as much as the screams, throwing of objects, etc.

The only thing that can possibly be a solution is treatment with a specialist, preferably through DBT. But they will usually not want to do treatment to change their behaviors or thoughts, because for them, it is already working for them. They don't understand that their intimate partner feels drained and exhausted, because for them it goes the other way around, exiting the EOS (and other circuits as well).

However, in the event that the pwBPD "hits a wall," then they may finally try to heal. I mean something very tough, such as the threat of losing child custody along with a divorce. My wife hasn't started DBT yet, so I'm afraid that living apart hasn't been enough of a hit for her, but I'll be patient and giver her more time.

After 22 years of roller coaster emotions,  I just discovered “stop walking on eggshells” by P Mason and R. Krueger.   So many things hit home and a relief to learn that I was not imagining these things.  Recently, Have been practicing the techniques applied and thought all was good,  but once again feel back to square one and feel like a failure once again.  Maybe if I knew about BDP a long time ago I would have better energy/alertness to handle. However, now I just feel so drained and exhausted.  After 3 weeks of strained communication/ coexistence she opened up tonight.
Was a stressful evening of her talking about the love is gone and she sees the future better with us apart and would have done so if it were not for the kids.  I’m a beginner on the techniques talked about, and kept calm but even that got tossed back at me that I don’t care, fake, emotionally numb, and always showing my “angel wings” ( term she has used when I explain how i feel).   I’m lost……