In his first marriage to a uBPD/NPD woman, she began affairs about 18 months after the marriage. The marriage became "open," not because he agreed but because he chose not to leave because of the children. At one point, there was some doubt as to whether he was the bio father of one of the children, but fortunately we now know he is.

During one of their conversations about her sexual behavior, she said,

"I know it's wrong, and I know it hurts you, but it's what I want, so I'm going to do it."

That summed it up. She's now in her 60s and continues the same behavior.

Hi Ridethestorm,

what you have described does not sound like BPD, but ofcorse BPD can coexist with other psychiatric illnesses…
However, you report your husband stopped taking meds and is lying to  GP. Did you consider callin/telling GP what is really going on, maybe GP will have some advice for you, maybe GP can talk to your husbandt... The fact that he is not going to job anymore only after  5 wreks worries me.
If he would be in danger of harming himself or another person, also financially, you could also get him hospitalised in psychiatric ward…

Hi Ridethestorm ,

It's unclear if he has BPD because you have not clearly described any BPD symptom. But you can go through the DSM criteria and count for yourself how many of the BPD symptoms you think he has. For instance, my ex and my current wife hit 8 to 9 of the 9 items, so it's very easy to identify. The hallucinations are not part of the criteria and could be part of a psychotic disorder, but he could have both.


Did you talk to his family, or is he the one who speaks for his family? My wife used to say lots of stuff on behalf of her family just to provoke me, but they were not true or were exaggerations.

One of the hardest things to do was to say "no" to my BPD mother. However, she'd sometimes push a boundary in increments to the point where I felt I had to say "no". Then, she'd react as if I had hurt her somehow. That felt terrible. I would not intentionally do something hurtful to my mother.

You wouldn't do something intentionally hurtful to your wife. Nobody wants to be the bad guy in the Karpman triangle with someone we care about, but I realized that, if I was going to have boundaries, I would have to also accept that she may think that way, (but that doesn't make it true).

Boundaries are about us, we can't control someone else. If marital fidelity is one of your values, you can't waver on it in your own actions. Your wife will do as she chooses.

Boundaries also involve knowing what is "you" and what isn't "you". It's possible to be firm about monogomy and also open minded about other people's choices but know they aren't for you. In a way, your wife may have perceived your being open minded as you not having objections to her having a same sex romantic relationship. Your wife has poor boundaries. If you also don't have clear boundaries, then it's unclear for both of you.

I think what is confusing here is the incremental shift from your wife having a female friend to having a romantic female friend. If this had been a male friend, perhaps your feelings, and where the line was crossed, would have been clearer to you. It's OK for your wife to have a friendship with other females. You can be open minded about having both gay and straight friends. It's an issue if your marriage is monogomous and the friendship becomes romantic.

While I don't personally agree with the extent of what my father tolerated, it also wasn't my relationship to decide on or understand. I know it took a lot for him to be in the relationship. It also would have taken a lot for him to get out of it and also I think he knew how emotionally fragile my mother was. I see some similarities to your position here. On one hand, this could be a deal breaker but you may not wish to go in that direction at this time.

From what I can see- I don't think you are OK with an open marriage. Where you need time to process, is what you decide you wish to do about her request. You can still keep your value about monogamy for yourself.

My best wild guess is that "this too shall pass" and if it doesn't- then her sexual orientation isn't anything you could have done differently to change.

My husband was, as far as he told me, diagnosed with bpd, tho he now says he wasn't?!? I took him back to try again cos there's lots of history m love there. He stopped taking his meds told gp he's still on them, and his therapy stopped. He got a job cos I said he needed to contribute financially. He did it for five weeks, then quit. I'm really worried about him now tho as he spends his days talking to chatgpt and researching the occult. He now says there's messages coded for him in occult books. He's having grandiose thoughts that he's a genius. I can't get him to go to drs as he thinks it's me who doesn't get it. His family say I'm a narcissist trying to control him and anything he does or says is fine. Just don't know what to do. Any ideas appreciated x

Very helpful, Wendy.  Thank you.

Part of my problem is that I am naturally an open minded person.  But BPDw wants black and white.  My open mindedness says that I need to consider pros and cons and options.  So I tell her that I cannot say right now that I am opposed to the idea of an open marriage, but this is sudden and I need time to process.  W takes this as a “green light” and moves forward, placing me into a situation that goes against my open minded nature by having to Say “no”.  I feel forced into the black and white world.

It’s a mess.  But I need to remember she is the one wanting to make the relationship change.  She is the one applying the pressure.  I can tell her I need more time to process and that is ok.  She can interpret however she wants, and take the action she wants.

Hi PullMyHairOut?, and welcome to the family!

That's an interesting story. Thanks for sharing. I laughed at the part in which she says you made her this way and that you're the one who needs treatment. But I completely understand you. My wife also pointed back to me when I talked about her treatment, but now she does not do that anymore. What changed is that she hit a wall.

We are living apart, and she wants to come back, but I told her it won't happen unless she learns to control herself, and DBT is perfect for that. So now she is fully invested in getting better. Your wife does not need a diagnosis, even because DBT is helpful for anyone with problems controlling their emotions.

In 2024, when you both were reconciling, I think you had the perfect opportunity to bring up this suggestion. And after you had already reconciled but were not living together, you could have told her something on those lines: "I love you, and I don't want us to break up ever again. Therefore, I don't want to move back into our home until it is safe. I will wait for you to start some treatment targeting your aggressiveness and emotional control issues, and I'll wait to see significant improvement from that. But don't worry because I want to help you out in every step. I want us to do this together." Then, as she positively responds to that, you would show her a list of therapists that do DBT in your area. And if she requests you to do therapy as well, accept it.

By the way, according to the EOS theory, the reason why she talks so much about your affair is because this is a topic that puts her in an "emergency situation," and by acting out on it, she releases endogenous opioids. Once she is not trying to follow this maladaptive behavior anymore (to stimulate her EOS) and uses a different approach, the past will be "left behind."

Ok, I'll try to answer my own question.

Yes, communication is important. By constantly suppressing ourselves from speaking to them (as an attempt to avoid their outburst), we end up having collateral effects that will tend to damage the relationship.

I agree with all of you that it is usually impossible to counteract a dysregulated state (as hiiumaa said), and over time they may develop a hyper-triggering state in which it is impossible not to trigger them (as Rowdy said). However, if we take action to break the cycle before irreversible damage takes place, then the interaction can completely shift, giving new hope for the relationship.

The way you can break the cycle is to remove yourself from the interaction in a way that makes the interaction conditional (e.g., you will not interact if you feel like they are being disrespectful in any manner). In my case, I was being persecuted all day long, so I had to stop living with her. For those that don't work from home and have a bigger house, they may manage to mostly avoid their partner when needed while still living together. Though communication should still exist.

For those who already live apart and still get pushed away even when using the tools (such as hiiumaa), the situation is harder. Because the pwBPD is in a more difficult state. But it doesn't mean that it would be impossible to relate to that person. It's just harder.

It is important that we have the emotional strength and resilience needed to take the lead in the relationship. Then, for being admired as their strong figure, we may influence them and guide the pwBPD into treatment. But all of that are traits that those with codependency will have difficulty expressing. Allowing the pwBPD to take the lead in the relationship is a doomer.

In my case, moving apart did break the cycle. Over the 5 days after moving out, she still did some minor attacks on me, and I have listed some of them below:

- "I already apologized for that, because I'm not like you (Arrogant)."
- "So stop doing NONSENSE!"
- "You don't like anyone, you only like yourself."
- "What's your problem? Have you always been this arrogant?"

I know those were very minor offenses, but they came unexpectedly. After so much time taking it, I got to a point of zero tolerance. But I feel like she is still getting used to the new setting, in which I can effectively ignore the drama, and it just moves me away. So I think she is lowering the tone and being "domesticated."

The fact that she got the diagnosis recently is also helpful, because now she understands that her close relationships would not be chaotic if she didn't have that disorder. She told me that her mother keeps triggering her, but she isn't reacting. She said that she is treating her mom with dear.

She has already scheduled the first DBT session, and we will try a medication that targets the EOS. According to one study, it seems like this is the only medication that is effective to help with BPD symptoms. It's not a controlled study, but for me it's a great finding.

And hiiumaa ...

When he says he wanted you to drive into his place "IMMEDIATELY", I think this was actually an EOS emergency. And since you didn't fix it for him, he medicated himself with alcohol. When you begin to understand how the underactive EOS makes them act in those ways, it begins to make sense.

He probably feels like it's unfair to keep yourself away every time he is "medicating himself". I'd rather change the naming of this boundary so that he understands that it's about the aggressiveness that emerges from a drunk state and not just the drinking itself.

Hope you don't mind but I've relocated this thread to another board. It should receive a better response at "Romantic Relationship | Bettering a Relationship or Reversing a Breakup". Here is the link: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=3061595.0

I have temporarily placed a ">" in the title so that other moderators will know that it has been moved and we don't move it again.

Each of the boards has a unique culture. Descriptions of which members/topics best fit each board are contained in the "DIRECTORY".  Additionally, the charter of each board is contained in the "WHO SHOULD POST ON THIS BOARD?" thread that is pinned at the top of each board.


If you think this move should be reconsidered, please send me a personal message, via "Pvt mail". I'm happy to work with you to get it to the board that makes sense for all.

I've been an opponent of appeasing and enabling- and a supporter of boundaries. One aspect of my parents' relationship that was puzzling to me was why did my father tolerate her behavior? It seemed to me that whatever she did, he just went along with it.

I gained more perspective on this in the later years of her life as I am the relative who was most involved with her elder care. (with boundaries still)

Emotionally, she seemed to be in constant turmoil, inside but to her, it appeared as a crisis- or needs, or a solution, external to her. However, by the time a reactive plan was placed, she'd be focused on something else. This was similar to how she'd seemingly always been- it was needing some new thing, some new "identity" or focus. These were external "reasons" for her emotions-  something besides her own feelings. We might react, to fix the issue- but it wasn't the solution.

Where this paralleled my situation with her was being involved with her care in her elder years. Her medical issues and emotional ones were addressed appropriately but it seemed she was frequently unsettled by something. Sometimes it was better to not get into a conflicting discussion with her. What appeared to me as my father being passive/appeasing now also sometimes may have been seeing that "this too shall pass".

You've also experienced times of crisis where your wife does something that seem intolerable. Yet, you also have a lot on your plate- you have kids, you are supporting the family and to respond with boundaries will elicit a response from your wife that you don't really wish to deal with. I think you've also experienced that if you look at these as individual events, they don't last very long and the "solution" doesn't either. The larger pattern- the series of external solutions that don't solve the issues is the result of her emotions.

My take on her latest interest is that this is one more of these "solutions" that also will pass in time. Whatever her issue is with the marriage, to her, must be something external. She thinks maybe it's because she'd rather be with a woman so she goes on a dating site. Here, she gains attention, interest, and this helps bolster her self esteem. There's the luster of a new interest. You see how short lived that was- this person isn't doing what she wants either.

There's a secondary gain to this. You react and your focus is on her. Now there's another conflict, crisis, and you are drawn into it. Now, the attention is on her and her feelings.

While my stance remains with boundaries and not enabling- another approach is to just let this pan out and see what happens. Discussing this may not be effective for you. If she could see your point of view she wouldn't have done it. You aren't "giving her permission" if you don't argue about it with her. You can simply say your wish is for monogamy, you don't want an open marriage but you aren't going to decide for her what she's going to do and then, not get into it with her more. 

It's very possible that this too shall pass. She will find out soon enough, if not already, that no person is perfect. It's also possible that she realizes that she is mainly attracted to women and if that's true, there's not much you can do about that.