It would be great if there were more common sense in business as to how to handle employees better, but more often than not you are told to suck it up and be professional. In some cases they even go as far as that you have to act like you get along and are friends...I'm not kidding as I had to deal with that nonsense before myself.

I hope for your sake everything goes in your favor.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Hey Barney, welcome to the fam 

So to kind of backup my sensei Skip here, but in more direct blunt terms...what kind of help and advice do you seek? Do you want advice and support on how to end the relationship and detach or do you want advice and support on how to better the relationship and find a way to make things work?

You are the driver, the captain of the ship. Tell us which route you would like to go.

We look forward to helping you through your journey and ordeal. Hang in there.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

One other quick thing re therapy. 

My wife tends to eschew it for herself but has not resisted it for the girls and younger daughter has a pretty good working relationship with a therapist in SG who works with children and young adults. Said therapist has been really helpful laying down parenting ground rules over the last couple of years and also coming up with a really detailed set of grounds rules for keeping things calm during April, when my daughter has exam prep and exams. 
]
]I also have a therapist I'm pretty happy with. (18 months ago I stopped working with a therapist who I have worked with and who has done couples work AND worked with my wife on and off over more than 15 years. He crossed a bunch of lines in a way that really set us back....)

But no-one so far seems to know a lot about BPD etc. or to be able to provide some of the guidance you all have already provided. Should I try to find someone to work with with more expertise? Or to find someone for one or both daughters with that expertise?  Older daughter in Toronto has struggled to find someone good and in fact is currently looking for a new therapist.

So much here, again. Thank you! 

First, a technical question. How do insert quotes as you all seem to know how to? This is a nice feature for responding to people's specific questions and comments.

In any event, really leaning in to comments by Pook070 and others, I've had a further discussion with my wife, emphasizing emotion and relationships and feel like I may be getting somewhere. Her extreme position is to say that if I don't give her everything she wants, she will fight to delay the divorce until 2029/30, the first date I could divorce without legal grounds. I've encouraged her to think about the benefits to her of getting divorced sooner and asked her to let me know what "sweeteners" might help her to agree to an earlier divorce date. (Honestly, I'm not wedded to a 2026 divorce; I just want to get off the emotional rollercoaster involved with living with her and funding her relationship).  I talked a lot about the importance of starting to repair relationships with the girls; that in particular seems to have resonated. She is going to think about terms and get back to me. 

Don't know if this is real progress but I do think the different language and approach is better -- we shall see. Thank you for that. More later.

Some of our best qualities are our sense of fairness and niceness.  However, those same qualities can set us up for self-sabotage.  How so?

If we try to be super fair or overly nice it may open the door for our stbEx (soon-to-be-ex) to demand more when working on terms for the divorce.  While a normal person would appreciate consideration and respect, that seldom is a positive factor in an acting-out PD divorce.

Also, don't expect the court to grant you points in your favor if you are overly generous in offers to your ex.  Court allows a lot of bickering, drama and posturing in the courtroom.  Then it just proceeds to the next step.

Your spouse may be allowed far too much leniency what obstructing progress with minimal consequences.  Yet you can be ever so polite and agreeable yet get no credit no matter how nice or generous your are.

Keep in mind your first offers, however 'fair', will be met with demands for more.  So it may be wise to hold some things in reserve - "cards up your sleeve", so to speak - for use later.

Many here have pondered how to be strategic and plan ahead, sensing beforehand what is likely more motivating to the stbEx.  For example, you likely have your daughters' futures in mind, so when negotiating also seek your daughters' welfare so they too have a better outcome.

So helpful. Thank you.

I meant "or not have any self defense".

It was extremely difficult for me if my mother said things to me about my father- after he had passed.

It was a very difficult grief for me. I wanted to keep the memories of him as I remembered them, not through BPD mother's narrations.

This was a firm "no" from me, and I told her "I don't wish to discuss my father with you".

Her response- in victim mode -"You mean I am not allowed to speak about my husband?" as if somehow I was doing that to her?

I replied- You can speak about your husband all you want, to anyone you want, but I am not going to listen to it.

Boundaries are not about the other person and this one wasn't about her. It's that this was that it was too much for me, it was hurtful.

Thank you all for your support. It helps me to feel that I'm doing the right thing.

Whether it is ASD, C-PTSD, BPD tendencies, or some combination of traits, the practical takeaway is the same: the challenges you are experiencing are likely deeply ingrained. She is going to be who she has always been. Most people are at their worst under stress, so it is reasonable to expect that things may become more difficult as this process unfolds. You will like struggle with the stress too.

While a collaborative divorce has its benefits, it requires a high level of emotional regulation and mutual cooperation. Based on what you’ve described, that may not be realistic in your situation.

The boyfriend may, somewhat counterintuitively, help stabilize things. I would avoid doing anything that could offend or create tensions with him. Say good things about him. First, he could create clear grounds that simplify the divorce process (infidelity). Second, if she is sharing details of your interactions with him, he may act as a moderating influence. Many people—particularly those not directly involved in the history—tend to prefer resolution over prolonged conflict.

If this were my situation, I would step back from direct negotiation in a way that comes across as thoughtful and non-confrontational. For example:

.	“I don’t want our discussions to become upsetting or feel unfair to either of us, and I don’t want this process to be draining for you. For that reason, I’ve asked my attorney to work directly with you—or with your attorney if you choose to retain one—to keep things fair and moving forward.”

I would have counsel prepare a comprehensive, “ready-to-sign” divorce agreement that addresses property division and custody. Provide her with a reasonable window to engage with your attorney. If that effort does not result in progress, then proceed with formally filing for divorce and allow the legal process to move forward. She can stonewall the collaboration... she only slow down the court process... it will proceed.

Is this the some of advice you are looking for?

I agree. It was invalidating to be expected by the adults in the family to tolerate my BPD mother's behavior and I didn't expect my children to do that.

It's the adult's role to protect the children, and once the children are adults, to allow them to protect themselves.

The nuance for me was finding the difference between respectful behavior to a relative and tolerating unaccptable behavior- and finding a boundary between them.

I can understant listening to a pwBPD's concern about a family member, if it was a genuine concern but with my BPD mother it was triangulation. It's also unethical to say unfounded negative things about another person and it is not being respectful to them or the person being badmouthed to enable that.

However, when dealing with a pwBPD, we also want to avoid fueling the drama. Sometimes the statements are about getting an emotional response. One option is to "grey rock". If you respond with emotion, or defend your D, or say why your sister is wrong about your D, it is adding fuel to the drama and in a way validating it. "Grey rock" is to not react and to disengage from the conversation in a non confrontational way.

In my situation, my BPD mother would "vent" her concerns to me about my sibling. I also knew she would vent about me to other people. This was Karpman triangle dynamics. I did listen to her for a while, assuming this was being respectful but them decided this was enabling this and so stated "I don't wish to discuss my sibling's personal issues, this is between the two of you". If she persisted, I found a reason to end the conversations "Mom there's someone at the door- I'll speak to you later" or change the subject. Eventually, not being a listener decreased her doing this with me. I then did this if she began to do this with me about other family members.

With my children, I wanted them to behave respectfully to their grandmother- to respect the relationship and because it was the decent thing to do. I also let them know they can have their own boundaries as teens and adults. One adult child felt comfortable with a relationship with her by text and phone (my kids didn't live near her). Another one, she did something hurtful to, and that child decided to not have contact if she called or text. In her presence, the kids were respectful.

The "turn the other cheek" is about non- retaliation with hurtful behavior. It doesn't mean one has to allow a person to be emotionally, verbally, or physically abusive, or have any self defense, or to expect a child to do so. To me, it means that if BPD mother says or does something hurtful, I should not do something hurtful back at her, but I can have boundaries and so can my children.

Not triangulating with my mother didn't mean I didn't ever discuss family members with her but if I got the sense she was asking me to speak for them, or get them to do something she wanted, I would turn it back to her saying "I don't know, it would be better if you asked them, or I don't know, this is between you and them.