Wow, CC43 - I could have written this. Incredible how perfectly similar the behaviors are. What a thorough explanation.

Hi Pook075,

Ok, I understand how this can work, to a certain extent at least, but this is easier said than done... Well, at least for me.

It's comprehensible that you have unconditional love towards your daughter. However, I don't understand how you can love your ex-wife after she did what she did with you. Also, I would expect your current wife to have a big problem with that. Because I suppose your current wife would not understand it as well and would feel threatened by that kind of close relationship.

What am I missing here?

Did you not hate your ex-wife for a certain period in the past after the event? If you did, then why would you love her back again?

P.S. -- If the program follows the structure, noted above, but isn't certified, I would feel totally comfortable with it.

Hi,

I'm sorry I'm coming late to this. The evidence and data on the success of DBT therapy is based only on certified DBT programs, so if you do have access to one, I would definitely choose that first.

Why? It's intensive. It includes one group skills session per week, one individual therapy session per week, and access 24/7 to the therapist for support in using skills before the loved one takes actions that might be harmful, whether drinking or cutting or suicide attempt, etc.

In addition, the program requires the therapists to meet as a group about their caseload to get support from other therapists, too. That's important because it provides them with care as they manage pretty difficult patients and their actions.

DBT-certified therapy is a gold standard, but if that's not available, I certainly think your child's willingness to do therapy anywhere should be followed up on.

Hi,
So much great advice here, and the comment from Pook about failing and trying again in all 4 suggestions is spot on!

I wanted to mention that NEA-BPD is an organization that has free classes for loved ones and while you wait for a spot (sign up - it can take weeks to months), they also have a lot of videos on the site that teach skills and explain what we are dealing with. It's all evidence-based, drawn from DBT and leading scientists.  The class is called Family Connections, and it is excellent.

Other places I find community? Reddit groups. Facebook groups. I also use ChatGPT to distill my thinking and get ideas for how to word things. You have to be intentional about telling it to only use evidence-based strategies and prove where they came from, but I do find it helpful.
I'm really sorry - I am pretty much in crisis with my child continually, so I do understand that desperate feeling. And like Pook and others have said, perhaps the hardest part is accepting that our relationship with our child - right now - has to be different than societal norms and typical maternal instincts would lead us to.

In fact, our maternal care and empathy can often fuel this behavior, and taking a step back, regulating our own emotions and leading with self-respect where we stop participating in their abusive conversations are just baby steps that do help.

Hi,
Glad you found this place. It's been super helpful and nice to just have a community that gets it when almost no one does. I have a child, not diagnosed and would never ever think they contribute to issues. Not a difficult child at all, but these big reactions and now rage and blaming emerged about 4 years ago.

I've done nearly everything wrong along the way, but normative things for typical child-parent relationship. Slowly, through experience, therapy, and reading I'm coming to acceptance that right now, I can't be a typical mom because what a normal mom reaction would be feeds anger and dysregulation. That's tough to accept and even tougher to live with, at least for me.

Like you, I'm coming to the end of the road, where I can go right or left or up or down without it spurring a rage at me, so I'm probably returning to very low to minimal contact. The child still has contact with the other parent and siblings, because the rage is directed at me primarily.

Anyway, I wanted to say that from all of the stories on this forum and others, if we are not careful about adjusting how we parent, we will get pulled into the spiral and that may last for years, or much of our life without any change to show for it. So, we learn skills to potentially avoid raging situations, not make things worse and find peace, regardless of whether our child does.

Yes, as you confirm, it works as long as your agreement seems convincing enough for them. But I do not recommend just blindly agreeing with her thoughts, such as her new perspective of politics, because, like you said, this can be easily tested, and she will feel offended once she notices that you are faking to agree with her thoughts.

What I do recommend, if you feel comfortable in doing it, is to agree to a label that she has put on you. Because when you do that calmly, you make it clear for her that the label won't hurt you or provoke you into conflict anymore.

Does that make sense?

I think it is important to understand why this works. According to the theory on endorphins (natural opioids in the brain), the core issue behind BPD is the low endorphin activity. But feeling loved is one of the natural ways of boosting it.

Endorphins are primarily activated by feelings of:

• physical pain (as in self-harm or a physical fight)
• high stress (as in consequences of self-sabotage)
• intense emotions such as extreme joy (as in idealization and love bombing)
• excitement (as in sexual overstimulation or recreational drugs)
• profound love (which also releases oxytocin, dopamine, serotonin, etc.)

The challenge is how to feel unconditional and permanent love for someone when this person is doing the opposite with you (being hostile/aggressive, screaming at you, accusing you unfairly, lying to you, etc.). In this sense, I'm afraid Pook075 has a special talent (which I don't).

Hi Rowdy ,


I see your point, that whatever drama you add to the life of pwBPD, they will stick to it through life and keep talking about it, right? Well, that's not precise.

When they bring up stuff, this is an unconscious attempt to reproduce it and feel themselves in a threatening situation again, but while they do it, they try to avoid the consequences. For instance, the suicide "attempts" are not actually intended to kill. Yes, among all BPD patients that attempt suicide, 10% of them actually die, but this is almost always an accident. A person who actually wants to die doesn't tell anybody about it and rarely fails.

In this video, you can see an example of a girl who tried uncountable suicide attempts until she threw herself in front of a train, and then ... well, she lost a leg but didn't die. A real suicide is not done in this dramatic fashion, and whatever is done targets the head, not the legs.

So, how does this translate to a relationship? The rule is simple: they only go for behaviors in which they don't care about the consequences, or they feel like they have some control over the consequences and can avoid the worst.

If you have a secret affair and she knows it's just for extra adventure, then she will haunt you on that and keep bringing this up for years later. But when there is a clear risk of you leaving her for this other woman, then she will behave like a princess to try to keep you close.

Similarly, if you pretend that you are interested in someone else and you are open about it, and she feels truly threatened by it and feels like any drama would push you further away, then she will make her best effort to please you and make you want to stay.

Then in the future she won't want to create drama over it, because she will be afraid that it could happen again (even knowing that it was fake). Maybe if she feels really safe to talk about it, she may bring it up, maybe when drunk, but not with an aggressive attitude, but just opening up like a normal person does.

All of what I said is confirmed by my 25+ years of experience with 4 different disordered partners, in which BPD was the issue most of the time.

So yes, I think faking a gay affair would have a positive effect on the relationship, as long as she does think that it is real and legitimate. If she feels like it is just a way of pressuring her or taking revenge, then it will backfire.

Title should read "Back again with more drama "