There's still part of me that wants to be with her, romanticizing the highs and fun times I had with her. Especially since her recent claims of peace, finding god, and being "better." But part of me knows with what she has done, probably will continue to do, there is no hope.

maxsterling ,

If your wife has no moral compass like PeteWitsend described, then that's big trouble. But hopefully she does have some?

If she were putting me in an uncomfortable position, I would perhaps play around with her by flipping the situation. First, I would pretend to be assuming to be gay and immediately "confess" that I had an online affair with another man. A few days later, I would ask her if it would be ok to meet this person. Just to see her reaction. I'm guessing she would say no and then would propose ending her own affair. But for this to work, you would need to do it very well. Perhaps really go into a gay dating site and really talk to another gay man, but of course tell them the truth. I believe they are likely to keep talking to you even knowing the truth. With that you would be able to show some part of that conversation to her. If my wife said yes, then I would actually go out and pretend to be doing stuff with someone else. That would give her some perspective on what she is doing with you.

I have used the same logic in the past, and I can say that it just works. It looks like revenge, but it's not. The goal is just to make them step into your shoes for a while.

For instance, in 2024, while I was asking my wife to leave, she entered a dating site and started to talk to other men. I think she was just doing it to provoke me and make me want her back, but it was unacceptable because she was still under my roof. We ended up reconciling, but I didn't leave that in the past because every time we talk about it, she becomes hostile and defensive. That tells me that her attitude will be the same next time it suits her. She defends herself, stating that she was not flirting but just trying to get the opinion of other men about my behavior. And until recently she still sustained a lie that one of the guys she was talking to was not from the internet and that he was gay.

So recently she asked to check my phone. She was leaving our house the next day, so I allowed it. Suddenly she struck upon the messages of a woman, and at a given point I noticed it was looking like an affair to her, because this woman was telling me where she was for me to meet her. So I quickly removed my phone from her hands and ended her checking, as if I was really having an affair. Her facial semblance immediately changed. She became desperate and confessed to her past lies. I only explained the situation to her the next day. That woman was an old woman from whom I bought popsicles for the kids (the cheap homemade ones). For a moment, she felt how bad it is when your partner has "secret conversations."

Yes, my BPD mother would say this too. "All families fight", as if what we saw going on at home was normal.

This behavior wasn't typical or normal.

Hi hiiumaa ,

The AI chatbots are very agreeable. So if they sense that you feel trapped, they will tend to validate that by stating that there is nothing you can do to make it work.

What I suggested is to copy-paste a long interaction. Just make sure that the AI can understand who's writing each sentence. Then ask the AI to evaluate your part of the interaction and if you did contribute to the conflict or not, and if you could have done better. Don't give it a background of the relationship because this will likely introduce bias in the AI's response, but you can briefly clarify the context in which the conversation happened.

Partners with BPD are experts in getting on our nerves. And when they succeed, even slightly, it becomes hard for us to notice our negativity slipping into our words. But according to the AI, I don't have to fake emotions. I can be cold and yet do a good job. Well, that's what the bot said... but can a human really do that? 

Hi SuperDaddy and Pook075,

I'm going to include both of you in this. I find this exchange very fascinating right now.

Even though you, Pook075, didn't quite answer SuperDaddy's question, the strategy you describe is a good one. I remember reading about it elsewhere.
However, I keep running into the problem with my partner that he sees ‘backing away’ as a total disaster and then freaks out even more. He can't recognise or accept (or both) that I'm doing this to protect myself, but sees it as not being loved/being abandoned. But he also doesn't see that communication is no longer possible in the current situation because of his outbursts.

How do your BPD family members react when you withdraw? Do they see it as abandonment? Can you describe this situation in detail when you withdraw?

For example, I announce it: ‘XY, I can see that you are very angry. Please calm down, otherwise I will withdraw until tomorrow morning for self-protection.’ But that leads to a total outburst of anger and, in most cases, a break in contact for a long time.

SuperDaddy, do you have any examples of this wording that Chat GPT didn't like? And did the AI give you any alternative suggestions?

I have already used Chat GPT to get suggestions on how to respond to certain text messages that I knew in advance would be VERY sensitive and lead to conflict if I wasn't extremely careful. But even with Chat GPT's help, it escalated every time. And I asked the AI to phrase it in a particularly validating, empathetic and clear way. I even told the AI the whole history of the relationship beforehand so that it was clear what a powder keg this relationship is. Nevertheless, it was not possible to avert the conflict.

However, the AI also repeatedly emphasises that, according to the description, my partner is particularly dependent on mirroring and control, especially when he feels hurt, ashamed or criticised, and that he simply cannot recognise withdrawal as self-protection on my part, but rather as a withdrawal of love or an attack. And that, unfortunately, he also cannot tolerate radical acceptance because he is practically incapable of integrating responsibility for his behaviour and ALWAYS has to shift it onto others (in this case, onto me). The AI always describes my partner's dysregulation as a ‘system error’ that I cannot fix.

Substance use disorder, stealing and TRO all relate to impulse control. Depression and suicide threats point to issues with emotional regulation.
Given your brother is keen on acting, improvisation workshops practice techniques to control impulse control and help with emotional regulation. Also research from the NHS suggests that group therapy has worked better (than CBT) with their BPD patients, so being around acting peers may help ?

Pete Davidson (USA/SNL) and Tommy Tiernan (Irish) both excelled at comedy improvisation and shared their BPD diagnosis. They both have humour routines explaining their mental health struggles e.g. here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYSolW3beKk

As a staff member you clearly must be doing your best, so be kind to yourself - you deserve it. 

That was very upsetting reading and you have our sympathies.  Certainly a lot of things which could fall under the criteria list for BPD there, if not also other mental illnesses.

Her dysfunctional upbringing is often a major contributing factor to developing BPD and from your writing we also see impulsivity, projection of her actions onto you, the 'want you / don't want you' phases, her huge insecurity and manipulation / guilt tripping using the threat of abortions. She doesn't seem to know who she is or what she wants. All recognisable criteria for BPD.

You've obviously gone through a very harrowing and confusing time whatever her illness is. One thing you don't say is whether you're now accepting it's over for good.. or do you still have some wanting to resume the relationship?

Best wishes

Hi Pook075 , and thanks for showing up. I was waiting for you 

Ok, but what you said is slightly different from what I asked in the thread topic. You are talking about how to avoid conflict, with conflict being defined as a hostile interaction, right?

But if it is a one-sided confrontation, with only them trying to confront us, isn't that enough to push them away and hurt the relationship? That's what I thought when I asked about "how to stop being attacked."

So it brings up the question: is it impossible to prevent them from becoming angry/hostile, or is there always something in our words that has lead them to take that path?

To answer this question, I have copied and pasted into ChatGPT a few of our text interactions that didn't go well, one interaction at a time. I asked if that was a conflict and if I had done anything that fed into the problem. To my surprise, the AI convinced me that I made many mistakes (wordings that fed into conflict). That's an advantage of using text.

Have you tried that, hiiumaa ?

Now I'm thinking, how hard it is to avoid being "negative" in our words while our emotions are negative? 

So sorry you’re having to deal with this. It sounds like you’ve been very considerate, so I can see why this would be hard to understand, easier from an outside perspective where emotions aren’t running high, e.g. a mediator or therapist.
“Reframing” the situation is one approach that may help. People with BPD fear abandonment and it sounds like your sister’s fight or flight reaction has been triggered off the scale. It’s worth reassuring your sister you're not abandoning her and understanding what support she’s worried about losing. A common theme in best practice approaches with someone with BPD is an empathic approach, which ironically is harder to do if it's a relative and you've been worn down over time. Also avoid judgment.

It’s a natural human technique to transfer blame when we can’t accept the consequences. Only in this case it defys logic and fact. That's likely the "cognitive dissonance" someone with BPD will feel when anxious. So addressing the rout cause, i.e. triggers, stress and anxiety should make your sister become more rational about this.

It’s likely the emotional consequences that your sister can’t deal with. Someone with BPD struggles with emotional regulation. There’s typically a neurological aspect to this, so it’s not just about learning to regulate; they have more intense emotions to deal with, and often need different coping mechanisms, which is where a trained therapist comes in. Avoidance is another way of dealing with that seemingly insurmountable tsunami of emotion. But a therapist can only run off the facts presented - it's likely your sister’s cognitive dissidence is making her a false reporter, so see it for what it is - fear.
Change causes stress, which typically exacerbates BPD symptoms. Breaking the move down into smaller, manageable tasks should help. BPD normaly comes with issues with “executive functioning”, i.e. the very skills needed for a successful house move. Maybe she fears the loss of your support organising the household ? Behind this will likely be a fear of failure.

I'm guessing this isn't what you want to here, as it sounds like you are getting emotional exhausted by this and would ideally benefit from a quick fix. But eviction, i.e. sudden change so someone's fears can't fester, would be a lot harder for someone with BPD to deal with and risks "re-traumatization". That said, in my country if someone is seen as a lodger, rather than a tenant, it's easier to evict at speed.

Most importantly, get support for yourself first, you deserve it.  Sounds like you've been extremely support already and should be proud of that (if your sister gets to a more stable condition she may well see that). Apologies for the long response, but I'm not on here often. If you get support from a therapist or conselor, they can step you through the process as new issues present themselves, or you could use this forum. 

I also remember the phrase "All couples fight" being thrown in my face whenever I said we were fighting too much and I didn't like it, and it wasn't healthy for our relationship or our daughter. 

I'd agonize over mentally wondering "how much was normal" or whether other couples fought like we did, and as often as we did.  It didn't seem like it to me.  And I'd question my judgment and motivation.  But the bottom line was I was uncomfortable with it, and that was what mattered.  It was too much for me, and I was communicating that to my partner and instead of being heard and communicating back, she was looking for ways to shut me up and justify her own behavior. 

Not all couples fight!  Some can have disagreements and make up quickly or agree to disagree without fighting.  Fighting is stupid.  Fighting shows two people can't communicate honestly with eachother and respect eachother as an individual. 

But you know, you hear these things, and you see the tropes in TV shows and you're susceptible to this nonsense from a manipulative person being used like that.