Like everyone here, I went through stages of grief.  First, I fought hard for our marriage.  I suspected cheating and didn't think she was capable, so I took her word that nothing happened.  It was so obvious though; her hiding her location, lying about where she had been, being super defensive with explosive anger whenever someone mentioned her relationship with that guy. 

You're right, in many ways I was the victim, but I refused to adopt a victim mentality since you can't truly heal while holding onto that.  I know people in real life that are still devastated from breakups 5 or 10 years ago, and guess what...they still feel like they are the victim.  What happened in my marriage happened and my ex made some really lousy choices.  She hurt our entire family and if I'm still harboring anger, it's because of what it did to our kids.  Nobody messes with my kids, nobody.  Someone can come after me all they want and I don't let it get to me.  But you mess with my kids?  Oh boy...


You could be right about all of this- it's so hard to think like someone with mental illness thinks because it's not a logical thought pattern.  You see 2+2 = 4, while they might see in a disordered state that 2+2 = the square root of banana.

You are correct though that in her new family, she's the handicapped person's entire world.  He could never really do anything to physically or mentally hurt her either, so it's a great person to label as a favorite.  She gets constant validation and it just works for her mental illness.


Like I said, I think it's so much more complicated because it's disordered thoughts leading to more disordered thoughts.  She couldn't even remember praising me a month earlier on social media, and called a few of her relatives a liar.  Then they showed her the post and it made her rage.  It's because she couldn't make sense of it either- how did she love her husband a month earlier, and now he's an abusive jerk?  She had no answer, so it changed to me being abusive our entire marriage and her suffering in silence.

With BPD, everything is tied to emotions in the moment.  What's true right now might be a lie in 5 minutes.  Then it can be true again 2 years later.  It's not tied to actual reality because it's impulsive emotional explosions.


During the first few years, screaming was frequent and violence was at least a once a week thing.  I've been punched, kicked, hit by a car twice, had countless household items thrown at me, etc.  I was young and dumb though and figured that's how all marriages were. 

For the other men stuff, that was a frequent argument as well.  She'd go into graphic detail of driving a guy home after work, everything they laughed about, etc.  I'd be like, "Surely you can see why this is inappropriate."  And then she'd explode and I'd have to duck.

I think why we lasted so long is because I stopped fighting back, I stopped asking questions, and I just let her do her own thing while I stayed home.  I worked big hours for most of our marriage, so she was free to visit family, take vacations with her parents, etc.  In short, I ended the conflict and refused to argue...which was at least partially the right thing to do in that situation.  It happened more from dumb luck than any wisdom though; I just got tired of the yelling and being attacked.

One my BPD daughter got old enough, my wife and I didn't fight anymore because it was always a war with the kid.  She was more the traditional 24/7 traditional BPD while my wife was more the quiet BPD type.  They were ultimately the same though; one hid until she had to explode, while the other exploded 24/7.

I always loved my wife and daughter though and in time, I realized that they were both sick.  The final stage of grief was acceptance, and that told me that they were never trying to actually harm me...they were just unhinged.  It took me a very long time to find compassion because I couldn't understand what was happening.  But once I finally found it, I've had zero blowouts with my daughter or my ex.

For my kid, we had a heart to heart conversation attending a wake for a family member.  She apologized for being such a tough kid, which absolutely blew my mind, and a few days later I told her that I forgave her for absolutely everything.  It's been a different relationship ever since.  I have been yelled at a few times when she was unstable, but I'd cut the call/visit short and follow up the following day.  That's all the drama I get from her now.

For my ex, she kept bring up the past (a year ago, 5 years ago, 20 years ago, etc.) and wanting to blame me...almost like a kid does when they're making excuses for why they did something wrong.  This went on for months and every conversation ended up there.  So I finally told her, "Look, I've always loved you and I never did anything to intentionally hurt you.  I've made mistakes in our marriage but I always did the best I could at the time."

Somehow that stuck, and we haven't had an argument since then (about 18 months now).  It's like the admission took all the fight out of her and maybe she found enough truth to let everything go.

It's sad to see that others in the family are affected by the dynamics and possibly BPD. My younger sibling has had significant struggles due to the emotional issues in our family situation, not BPD but still very difficult struggles. Fortunately now, employed and doing better-but not because I did anything to make that happen- I think this is something important to know- we can't "save" or change anyone. Family can make suggestions, give advice, but it's up to the person.

We are in contact because there isn't BPD or BPD behaviors.  In my own situation, my tolerance for this is pretty low. I also learned through trying that if someone is going to change their behavior- it's up to them. Since you were last on this board, my BPD mother has passed away. She didn't live near me but I was involved with her care and well being in her last years. She had some self destructive behaviors- and if I could have changed that, intervened- for her own well being (and I tried) I would have but she remained legally competent to make her own decisions and so that was up to her.

She also remained in her victim perspective. This is important to keep in mind. If she acted out with someone- and that person kept a distance as a consequence of that behavior- BPD mother would still say she was abandoned. Like your brother- even if he told you to leave and cursed you out- and you did- he still is saying to your other siblings that he was abandoned. It's as if she didn't make the connection between her behavior with someone and that person's reaction- either she truly couldn't or she felt like she couldn't or didn't want to acknowlege that.  It's hard to know.

Where I would advise you on your response to your brother is to shift your thinking from his "control" - waiting for him to apologize- to you deciding about this relationship and how much contact to have with him. In general, I think pwBPD don't usually apologize- this might come with shame and shame is a very difficult emotion for them. Or they are thinking from victim perspective and believe they didn't do anything to apologize for.

You also can decide how much contact you want to have. You can decide that you don't want to speak to someone who is cursing at you, no matter who they are. If you make contact and he begins to curse at you, you can disengage from the conversation. How to do this is up to you.

Consider not giving advice. It isn't working anyway. What I learned is that giving unsolicited advice to my mother felt invalidating to her. If she asked me for advice- it was more like emotional caretaking for her- she didn't follow it. I would reply with something more empowering to her "I don't have a good answer but your doctor, accountant, friend (whowever could advise her) would know better than I do" and let her decide to call them or not.

What made this situation different was age and her physical condition. I was her POA. If she truly needed help with a task, I could be involved.

Your brother is 23 and whatever his potential is, enabling could inhibit him from getting there. On the other hand, with his mental illness, it's hard to know what his potential is. You also can consider how much you want to be involved in caretaking a mentally ill person, the relationship (a sibling isn't an elderly parent) and even if you can make a difference, because he needs professional mental health and you aren't his provider.

Also consider his behavior towards you and adjust your expectations. Does he only contact you when he needs something like money? Or is this one way- you are the only one making contact? You can still have a relationship with him and also be aware of the dynamics and nature of his participation. This may be what he's capable of emotionally.

Right now, if he's in a psych care facility- he is where he needs to be. They will determine placement, and also are aware of his lack of housing. If he ends up homeless, this is not any fault of yours. If he is unable to hold a job- they can help him access funds like social security disability, Medicaid, if you are in the US. If he is legally incompetent, they can facilitate guardianship- it can be a family member or the state in this position. It does not have to be you unless you want to do it. Not all mental illnesses render a person legally incompetent though and it sounds like he still is legally competent which still puts him in control of his own choices.

This is a sad situation for him and for you. However, you are not obligated to be involved with this. It's your choice to decide. You can prioritize your own emotional and financial well being.

I should add: she's in all kinds of therapy. I don't know what they're telling her based on her version of events. I really wish our therapists could compare notes because I suspect they're taking her perspective at face value and encouraging her to keep up these communication boundaries given her story. And really that's just leading to disaster whereas a mediated conversation could have prevented all of this. I'm guessing.

Hi, I'm new here and honestly just feeling so weary. I could answer questions about my situation but don't feel like I have the energy to lay everything out right from the start. Some bullet points:

- I'm 34, sister is 32
- sister is diagnosed bipolar and c-ptsd. I'm here because *my* therapist suggested she may be exhibiting signs of borderline
- we gave free temp housing in our home for her and kids following her abusive relationship
- that timeline turned into years while she continued not to work
- we set a boundary involving rent so she'd move out but tried to make it still beneficial for her by setting funds aside in our budget to support her in future
- we started building a house for her and my MIL next door
- she stopped paying rent 8 months ago after her grand plan to go into business for herself didn't pan out
- my partner laid out his concerns about the situation in email
- she accused us of overcharging rent and being emotionally unsafe via email. Cut off all communication, said she's moving out and has to withdraw from the house plans for next door, implied that we're treating her illegally under tenant protections
- a housing lawyer we consulted said this was nonsense
- given her "communication boundaries" I didn't know how to resolve. Sent one careful email seeking resolution, offering meditation, offering to help her pay for another place, and telling her that we were working from different information
- she shut that down entirely. We proceeded to issue a notice to quit (starting eviction process) following advice from our attorney
- she freaked out and screamed and broke something the last time I saw her in the kitchen, after I just said hello
- she's keeping her bedroom door locked at all times and not coming out, only sends the kids into common space briefly and locks the door after them. Strange behavior
- she just sent an email this week explaining the painful impact of this situation on the kids that they won't be able to move into the new  house on this street (duh? We want them to live nearby hence were building them a house that she withdrew from based on her perception of a situation that we don't understand and she won't allow discussion around)

That's the story in a nutshell. There's more of course. But this is all so very very painful to try to accept. The loss , the impact on her kids and our toddler, the toxicity in the current living arrangement, the story she's likely telling our friends and neighbors about how we've been abusive to a single jobless mom with mental health issues and how THAT'S the reason she can't move forward in life, continuing to receive accusations via email that she preemptively refuses discussion around due to her "communication boundaries," going through a stressful eviction process that I know will continue to trigger her at every turn which will continue to cause her to lash out and double down... I hate all of it and I'm so, so tired. I can't believe we're at this point.

She's experienced paranoia before but she has always, always trusted me. I helped raise her and unfortunately probably have enabled her because I always believed she would be able to take accountability for her actions and path forward "once she healed" from bad things in her life. The situation here is NOT a bad thing. We have begun building a HOUSE for her, including legally enforceable protections for her as a tenant like rent stabilization written into the house trust. We gave her 1.5 years of free housing. I've lent her my car over and over. We've all supported her emotionally. We've helped raise her kids and show them how to do basic tasks and had fun with them.

This all makes no sense and I have no idea a) how to get out of it and b) how to accept it while she continues to be hostile in our living environment.
.
I know I should probably let go of A but it is so hard.

SuperDaddy,

I am sorry to read about the situation with police in your country. However, I dissagree, that the police threat was the thing that made my boundaries stick better. I maybe used police threat 3 times in 8 years, I think that sticking to boundaries, not giving in and staying calm using comunication techniques brought a lot more. When it was really bad I had to stick to my boundaries multiple times per week, sometimes multiple times per day. At those times feeling love and compassion was practically impossible as you write. But boundaries still have to be put in place, although it is a hard process. I thrink we as prtners also have to learn ourselves how to put boundary in place practically, we usually do not have this knowledge and experience from before and our behaviour also allows codependancy that is bad for both sides. And we have to stick to the boundary time after time, if we do not, it is lost quickly and even harder to win back next time.

Hey folks, I was staff here over a decade ago while healing from my relationship with my dBPD mother. This place was very helpful as a young adult learning to set boundaries for the first time.

I am back because my youngest brother is 23 and undiagnosed but has all the signs.

After years of severe depression, substance use disorder, stealing, rehab, suicide threats, a psych stay and a TRO, he is currently homeless. I am heartbroken and at a loss.

He has refused therapy, DBT, online CBT, any ownership or accountability or healing. He tried a little after rehab but quickly regressed.

He is deeply sensitive, has few friends because he is miserable to be around, and screams at family and friends and curses us out when angry.

He went to acting school - something our family supported him in start to finish with encouragement, attending his shows, flowers, money, intros to people in the industry or jobs. Yet he lives in a fantasy where he hopes to not audition and simply be "discovered" or get an apartment for free. When angry, he says we never supported his acting and that's why he isn't currently working.

As his big sister, I invite him to join me on drives, shopping, trips, watching a movie, basketball, etc. but he declines and hides in his room scrolling, or joins and then storms off slamming doors to express his pain. He then complains to our siblings that we exclude him.

During his recent psych stay he cursed me out again, told me to leave him alone. He now complains to the one brother he talks to that we have abandoned him.

Our mother was terribly abusive and neglectful, and I raised him from a baby to age 11 when I left for college. He both loves and resents this history with me, which I get. He often seeks validation, empathy, advice, and then resents these even when given in gentleness and as sought.

Last I heard from him was end of December when he cursed me out, and said things to try to hurt me. I told him I would not have a conversation if he continued to speak to me that way. He called the next day from the psych ward asking for help making a housing plan but blamed me for his mental state and made a suicidal threat, to which I told him I loved him but he needs to talk to the psychiatric help if he is dealing with that. He has not contacted me since.

I felt terrible not visiting him for 14 days in the psych hold, and I am devastated that even with years of support he is now homeless. But just like I have not given him money since I learned of his addictions and stealing, I can't fix this for him or force him to be accountable. He has to want it.

I am trying to wait for him to reach out and apologize now. Am I doing the right thing? When is the right time to reach back out?

All this to say, I have worked on my tools: boundaries, mindfulness, empathy, wise mind, DEARMAN, radical acceptance, and yet 14 years of therapy later I still get blindspots when it comes to my family dynamics. I want to be a good sister to him, and be caring while not enabling. I fear I have probably enabled his behavior in ways I am still blind to and need to find that right balance. Thanks for listening.

* does the part of you that loves them block you from their behaviour*

Bloody auto correct…. This board needs an edit function.

Hi Superdaddy,

I’m sure if people have made it on to this website they are well aware that they have been the victim of misconduct on the pwBPD’s behalf. It’s a little like having your foot blown off with a sawn off shotgun.

Of course you need to understand the behaviour you have experienced is not right and is to be avoided, or you risk having your other foot blown off and you will forever be stuck and not able to move forward.

It’s ok to have compassion. It’s ok to have love for someone that mothered your children. Does that mean you love them enough to want to be with them? No. Does the part of you that loves them black me you from their behaviour? No.

Does their mental illness make them do the things they do? Not necessarily, as you say it’s not the BPD that was cruel or abused you, it was the person. If that person isn’t capable in the first place of the abuse many of us on here have experienced then bpd isn’t going to make them do it. But if that person is capable, does have thoughts about abusive behaviour then the cognitive functions that are affected by bpd WILL allow them to abuse you.

For example, get two people, one with bpd one without, never look at another man/woman in a lustful way. Neither of them would cheat.
Get two people, one with bpd one without, both look at other men/women and think they are attractive, have sexual thoughts enter their heads, I’d be willing to bet out of the two it would be the pwBPD that acted on impulse.

I have tried this as well...basically agreeing to her statements as a way of getting a point across...sometimes it may have worked only if it was very subtle agreement. many other times I was entrapped, meaning she made certain statements as a means to test my thoughts and when I agreed to her statement all hell broke loose. so I need to watch out for that kind of manipulation all the time.

Hi there,

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your feelings about your daughter's boyfriend.  It seems you would like to know that he's committed to your daughter and will earn enough money to care for your daughter and their child together, right?  Of course you'd want that for your daughter, but do you really expect him to give you an accounting of his earnings and the household budget?  You write that you need to know his "expectations if any he has when it comes to her or anyone else bringing additional money into the household."  I get that, but by the same token, I don't think he should be telling YOU that.  He should be telling your daughter.  Besides, people can be full of good intentions, but fail to deliver because life and work are HARD.  What matters to me aren't intentions as much as results.  And for me, the best predictor of future results is past behavior.  Is the boyfriend capable of holding down a job, gradually increasing his responsibilties and winning promotions?  One look at his resume and you'd have decent information.  The same goes for your daughter.

Maybe you're trying to say, you don't want to be expected to pay for your daughter and grandchild yourself.  But why would your daughter think YOU are going to pay?  Have you told her you would?  The baby is her responsibility, not yours.  She made the choice, she bears the responsibility.  Granted, with BPD, there's usually a heavy dose of entitlement and sky-high expectations of other people.

I guess if I were in your shoes and I were supporting another adult economically, my support would be wholly in kind and conditioned upon using the money as I intended, akin to making a donation to charity, where funds must be used for stated charitable purposes.  By that I mean, if I pay tuition, then my expectation is that she study (and pass).  If she fails or drops out of school, then there's no more money for tuition.  If I pay rent for an apartment, then my expectation is that she live in the apartment.  If she abandons (or trashes) the apartment, then no more rent money.  If I give her some money for utilities, then my expectation is for it to be spent on utilities.  If she's spending the money on illicit drugs, lottery tickets or other nonsense, then no more money for utilities.  If she declares, she's an adult, she wants to drop out of school, abandon her apartment, move in with her boyfriend and have a baby, that is her choice, and it sounds like a deliberate one.  I respect another adult's choices--I really do--provided that they aren't breaking the law, hurting others, or making me live with the consequences.  Your daughter is showing you she doesn't value her old apartment (nor the tuition you paid in all likelihood), and that's OK.  She has something now that she thinks is better, she's exercising her independence, and you don't have to keep paying for things she doesn't want.  You certainly don't have to reward bad behavior, when your daughter is wishing you dead and calling you outrageous profanities, while holding out her hand for additional spending money.  I'm writing this because I wish my family hadn't financed and enabled increasingly destructive and expensive decisions by a loved one with BPD, while my husband and I bore the financial/logistical consequences.  I promise you, the verbal and written abuse only get worse, almost in direct proportion to the demands for more money, for as long as your daughter doesn't seek professional treatment.  I think the potential to make questionable choices grows as the size of her pocketbook increases, right alongside her age and her expectations to do adult things, such as have a baby.  Look, would you be angry if your daughter decided to vacate her apartment and move in with her boyfriend if she were the one responsible for paying the rent?  My guess is that if SHE were paying the rent, she'd find a solution, such as a sublet situation, and then her choice wouldn't bother you as much.  Or maybe you're angry because your daughter got pregnant and is living with a boyfriend before marriage?  I'm not a fan of that choice either, but it's not mine to make, and it's not uncommon, either.  Some would say it's the most economical choice, as a single mom could qualify for more benefits.

Let me guess, you want to pay for your daughter to get DBT treatment, but your daughter doesn't want to do it--she wants to do other things, mainly spend time with her boyfriend.  If you relent and continue to give her money, you're likely enabling and prolonging dysfunciton, in addition to training your daughter to treat you poorly.  My humble opinion is that you should close the parental ATM for the time being.  This isn't to be mean, but to show your daughter sooner rather than later that she needs to live in the "real world."  In the "real world," adults need to face economic realities, which usually mean that parents can't afford to bankroll their adult children forever.  I think you should start now, before you set your daughter's expectations of getting a weekly stipend from you (unless you can afford to see it multiplied and extended for 18 years or so).

In the meantime, I think you have the right idea of waiting until your daughter reaches out and pretends like nothing happened.  I think you might pretend that nothing happened, either.  You could say, you respect your daughters decision to start her family.  Though you're not an ATM, you can provide moral support, given your own experience with pregnancy and early motherhood.  I'd say, try to become a trusted adviser and moral supporter, instead of being a provider/nurturer/ATM.  This might be a good inflection point--your daughter is a full adult now, and you can start treating her like one, not like a dependent little girl.  But if she resumes her abusive behavior, disengage right away and protect yourself.  Try not to reward her bad behavior with money or attention.

Just my two cents.