Hi broken mom2,

Welcome to BPDFamily. I’m really glad you found us, and I’m sorry for the circumstances that brought you here. What you’re describing sounds incredibly painful and exhausting, and it makes sense that you’re feeling alone in it.

Many members here can relate to that push and pull, where no matter how much you give, it never seems to be enough. The guilt, the second-guessing, and the heartbreak of being pushed away by someone you love so deeply can take a real toll.

I also hear how much you’ve shown up for your daughter over the years. Supporting her, helping with your granddaughter, trying therapy, and still holding onto hope for a relationship says a lot about the kind of mom you are. That doesn’t sound like failure to me, it sounds like someone who has been trying for a very long time under very difficult circumstances.

You’re not alone here. There are people who understand this kind of situation in a way that others often can’t.

If you feel up to it, what has been the hardest part for you lately, the distance itself, or the way things were left between you?

Sorry, in the previous post, the paragraph which begins: "Though my situation isn't exactly the same..." should be in quotes - from CC43

This. This. Could. Go. In. A. Book.

Though my situation isn't exactly the same, I can relate to wanting desperately to love and support a family member, only to encounter ugly behavior from her.  How do I love someone who takes and takes, all the while blaming me and hurling venom my way?  Well I think I can take the venom, because I know that it's not about me, it's BPD.  But what's harder for me to take is how cruel she is to my husband and the rest of the family.  How do I try to reconcile preserving the integrity of the entire family?  Do I "defend" her actions and say, it's not her fault, it's BPD, just ignore it?  Do I say, she doesn't mean any of the hurtful things she is saying and doing, even after years of therapy?  At what point is an adult responsible for herself, even if she has mental illness?  I mean, BPD can't be an excuse for all negative behaviors, can it?  To say that BPD is at fault (and not the person) is like giving up, isn't it?  On these boards I sometimes see the concept of "radical acceptance," but does that mean accepting that a person with BPD is basically mean-spirited and unable to control themselves ever, and it's not possible to have a healthy "attachment" with them?  Honestly it's confusing to know what to do, let alone what to think.  And then I wonder, what is love to a pwBPD?  Will she ever have a meaningful relationship/"attachment"?  Or maybe it would be better to live alone?  I just don't know.

To me, radical acceptance is accepting the person for who they are, and dropping all expectations. End Stop.

No, I don't believe that gives them any excuse for bad behavior. Yes they are responsible for their own actions.  Yes they have a disease, and yes they alone have the power to acknowledge it and accept there is a problem. No, it's not our job to fix or caretake.  Just like an alcoholic needs to reach their bottom, and find the inner strength to make change, the autonomy to become aware and "grow" as a person, also stays with the person with the BPD.  NotWendy always talks about 12 step programs. As long as the loved ones around them participate in the dysfunction and "enable" the behaviors to continue, we are giving them the power to continue hurting us with their behavior.  As caretakers, it feels wrong to set boundaries for ourselves (we all seem to struggle with intense feelings of guilt which keep us enabling their bad behavior) and we are stuck in a loop of dysfunction and abuse. 

Yes, the hurtful things they say are the disease talking.  And yes it is rational to separate the disease from the person with it, so that the hurtful things don't feel so personal to us.  But it doesn't change the fact that it's not ok to say those things in the first place.  They are mean, unkind, and destructful to relationships and social groups such as families.  As adults, they have to own that (with children it's different).  It is never ok to be mean and abusive.  BPD might explain the behaviors and abuse, but not excuse it.  So no, I wouldn't "defend" her actions.  That would be enabling.  In fact, when she says all those nasty things, she probably means them in that moment, so no, I wouldn't say "she doesn't mean them" (because she does).  Instead I would say something like " ________ needs some time to calm down right now.  Let's give her some space to do that".  I agree that BPD can't be an excuse for all negative behaviors. 

No.  For me radical acceptance means acknowledging and accepting their illness and all it's implications, and also that it is not in my control to change them or their illness.  They have to do that.  And I also radically accept how difficult that is.  But Marsha Linehan did it (and developed DBT), and many are able to overcome or grow out of it.  It is possible.

Because we "care", are kind, and we are good people...?  In healthy relationships, these things get reciprocated, which makes us feel valued.  Sadly, in a BPD relationship, guilt and fear get used against us in phrases like "you're so selfish" (if we take care of a personal need instead of their need), or, "if you loved me you wouldn't go without me", and so on.  Their rages also terrify us and we learn to do anything to avoid that rage, which makes us weak at times and easily manipulated to meet their need.  We acquiesce. We support. We enable. We caretake their emotions when they should be caretaking their own emotions.  They are exceptionally skilled at manipulating our feelings of guilt if their need isn't being met, and their superb intuition tells them how to push our buttons to get the most powerful reaction they want (attention, drama, or some specific need).  My mother has passed away now, but she used to moan/scream/wail that we didn't love her if we were leaving town even for a short weekend road trip.  "Leaving" would trigger her feeling of abandonment, dysregulate her emotion (How could we leave her? or, sometimes: How Dare We Leave Her?), and she would say things to make me feel bad so that I would either take her with me on the family trip, or cancel our trip just to avoid the inevitable drama (twice she faked illness and we cancelled).  For decades I allowed my emotions to be manipulated in this way, before I came to a breaking point because as she aged, it got bonkers.

Now she is gone and I feel like Humpty Dumpty.  Broken at 64.  I want to believe I can put myself back together again.

So I think your question, while simple enough on the surface, is a very complex and important one.  And each response in the thread holds so many special gems of wisdom. 

I believe it is a worthwhile exercise to keep reading the responses over and over, until body and brain have absorbed them and processed them on a deeper level.

The next question following yours is:  "now what"? 

This is a really great thread.

PS: This is just golden.  I can't tell you the number of times over the years I've read about frustrated "nons" on this board, reporting that they have "declared" __________, or "written a letter" to their person with BPD.  Goodness, that is only going to fan the flames and amplify the chaos and hurt.  Then their next post is an outcry about the BPD's raging response. Really?  What did you expect?  To support what CC43 is saying:  Skip the words.  Just take the action (learn to set boundaries for yourself). 

There are so many gems on this thread that could be just life changing, and life giving. 

Another gem I once received was to "emotionally detach with kindness".

Hello Broken Mom and welcome to the family.  I'm so sorry you feel like you're facing this alone...just know that all of us felt that way when arriving here.  It is so tough with a BPD kid and their constant demands.

One thing you said that jumped out at me was, "Just recently she has told me she does not want me in her life if I can't be the mom she wants me to be."  Hopefully you can see the narcissism within that statement, how she insists on controlling you or cutting you out of her life...it probably doesn't "feel like" there's a middle ground.  You get to decide what's best for your life though and it sounds like you've already sacrificed so much and waited so long.

Think of it this way- your daughter will always have mental illness and that's 100% outside your control.  She's the only one who can decide to make changes.  You also get a choice in your life though and you haven't failed at all...you've gone so far above and beyond without being appreciated for it.

A few questions- is your daughter currently in therapy?  What are currently some of your biggest challenges with her?  I'll love to talk that out with you as we wait for others to chime in.

One of our normal inbuilt cravings is reciprocation in our relationships.  We give and share while wanting others to similarly give and share.  It's upbuilding and overall productive.

When things get unbalanced is when one is always giving and the other always taking, even opposing.  Imagine sitting in a rowboat, you rowing toward a wonderful goal but the other is just sitting there, perhaps even rowing in the opposite direction.  That eventually becomes frustrating and unworkable.  In time you're tempted to give up and give in and what you do becomes, almost before you realize it, appeasing and enabling.  Not a success story.

There are many relationship tools, communication skills and time-tested strategies discussed here.  Many members have been here for years and our collective wisdom is a result of our "been there, done that" experience.

One skill, one of many, is learning what Boundaries are.  Boundaries are not placed on the misbehaving person because typically they resist proper boundaries of behavior.  While it isn't intuitive, Boundaries are for us.  How so?  Boundaries are how we respond to poor behavior.

For example, the other person may start ranting, raging, blaming us, making demands, virtually taunting us to respond similarly.  However, we can have a clearly stated Boundary that we won't sit by as a willing target.  Rather we can decide to exit and go elsewhere such as to the park, to a restaurant or the supermarket, stating we will return.  That gives the other time to reset.  Will it work?  Probably not so much at first.  Hopefully over time at least part of our boundary will become the normal and accepted policy.

If there are minor children, it's best not to leave them with a spouse who is in such a dissociated state.  Yet most will oppose the children being removed from the conflict.  That is something to ponder... how to help the kids not to remain stuck in the middle of conflict.

Hi,
Not really sure where to start I am new to this. My 22 year old daughter has BPD and has recently cut me out of her life.
It started 13 years ago when her father and I got divorced, he was seeing someone else. After a year and a bit I met someone and she has never accepted him. He also had 2 children and we would plan little trips together and my daughter would always act out in some way to ruin it. She also began being physical with me. I took her to therapist after therapist and she would never talk during the sessions. After years of him trying he had to step back from her and think of his own kids and my son and me. We never combined our families in one home we always kept separate homes for the kids until my youngest moved out.
When my daughter was 17 she ended up having a baby who I helped with while she lived with me. So the first 3 years of her life I was always there. Once my son moved away for school I decided it was time for me to have a life of my own and move in with my fiance. I would visit my daughter and granddaughter regularly but it was never enough for her. Whenever she would have an episode it was always my fault she would say I never loved her. This would go at least once a week while we lived together and down to once a month once I moved out.
Just recently she has told me she does not want me in her life if I can't be the mom she wants me to be. She blames all of this on my finace saying he is controlling me. He has always stayed away when I would visit my parents or my daughter because that was her safe place and he did not want to make her uncomfortable. So I would have my two lives that never really intertwined. My son gets along wonderfully with my fiance and his kids and it kills me inside that my daughter could have had this but fought it.
I feel like I have failed her but I do not know what to do anymore, I am mentally drained and I am trying to accept that someone is putting me first for once but it is hard. My entire family has always put my daughter first and has never really accepted mental health issues. So I am alone in this battle with no one to talk to.
I hope one day I can have a relationship with my daughter and granddaughter because it breaks my heart everyday.

Hi Duggenin,

My udd loves money but has a terrible spending habit so instead of sending money which you cant be sure how it is being spent I think it may be best to get a better idea of how she is coping  is to suggest spending the day together, buying groceries and taking them over or offering practical help.

Iam also sorry that you are struggling with the weight of the worry about your 2 gs's and this financial pressure but this is your dd's debt and it is her responsibility. There is no harm   providing the help and guidance to sort this debt out if she is not facing up to it and I would be going down that route as this is a healthier option(and actually something that she can learn about for the future when it comes to budgeting) than constantly providing her with more money.

Family dynamics and family systems contribute to this. Where there's a family member with a disorder, the other family members take on roles to keep the family in balance. When we grow up in this kind of family dynamics, it's the only "normal" we know.

Children need their parents for survival. We are wired to seek parental attachment and approval. The behaviors we take on in our families are functional as children but may not be as adults. We probably got parental approval for being overly responsible for the disordered person- being parentified.

We may also have seen this behavior role modeled for us and see it in a positive light. Generally, being strong, and helpful, are considered positive qualities universally, but when they become overly responsible, enabling, or co-dependent they are not. It's hard to tell the difference anyway but we may not be able to if they were the "normal" in our family.

While it's not a good thing to tolerate mistreatment to the point of mental collapse, this could be the turning point "hitting bottom" that leads to positive change. It takes some self work and counseling to re-examine our family roles and learn new behaviors. We can still be helpful but in positive ways and with appropriate boundaries, but first we have to have some self care, and emotional self care. This may not feel comfortable to us if we've been taught that caring for ourselve is "selfish" but it's not. It's essential. The work of learning new ways to relate to others takes time and effort but it's worth it because you are worth investing in.

What type of relationship are you in?
 I am a mother of 2 and stepmother of 2. My 22 year old daughter has BPD.
 
Who else (if anyone), in child's family, has BPD?
I believe her father may have BPD or Bi-polar disorder
 
What is your child's strongest quality?
 intelligent

 What are the top challenges your child is facing?
 She had a baby at 17 and is currently raising her without the father in the picture. She will not stock with her medication.
 
What do you find most difficult in dealing with your child?
 She has never accepted my fiancé since her father and I divorced 13 years ago. In the beginning she was included in everything and every time we would do something all together she would find a way to try and ruin it. She was very physical with me for the first 5 or 6 years and over the last year I have had to step back for my own mental health.
 
How would you categorize your child? Diagnosed? Undiagnosed?
 Diagnosed
 
What do you struggle with yourself?
 I feel guilty like I wasn't a good mom and I don't know if I am doing the right thing by stepping back.
 
Is anyone in therapy? Child? Parents?
 If so, what types?
 She is in therapy
I am seeing a psychotherapist and using CBT
 
What are your goals at bpdfamily.com?
To not feel so alone and to finally have some support