Adding my two cents -- a teen can range from 13 to 19 years old. Our responsibilities as parents will look very different for the 13 year old vs the 19 year old. While each kid is different, I wouldn't suggest waiting for the 13 year old to "feel ready" for or express buy-in to a program, but I might suggest that for an 18-19 year old.

Everyone is making great suggestions across the range of ages. It may help to know your child's age so we can know whether to lean more towards "IOP/home/family treatment" vs "make your kid go to residential" vs "let your child take the lead". All have their times and places, it can depend a lot on age.

We can't make unwilling adults (even young adult children) do anything, but we may be called upon as parents to make unwilling young children do things. Sigh... Neither option is easy, I know!

...

I believe 3East and McLean are very well regarded, have a clinical foundation, and would not at all be considered "abusive wilderness program" or a "cash grab".

Have you already called or consulted with them? I wonder if they could do some kind of pre-admission / over the phone assessment with you, or could refer you to other reputable programs that would be a better fit for your child and family, if they aren't the right fit.

Thank you CC43.  I appreciate the input.  Yes, she is definitely trying to hurt me because she sees I am not giving her what she wants and in the way she wants to receive it.  This is the first time I have set a boundary with her and stuck to it. 
I am in therapy and am learning not to take responsibility for other peoples emotions. I have been walking on eggshells with her for years and accommodating her moods and trying not to say anything that will set her off.  I too believe it will be a matter of time before she tries to message me.  She is used to me giving in to her and apologizing to try and mend things but this time I can't do it anymore. My communication style has been calm and neutral and I think that is making her angrier and angrier. She perceives that as I don't love her. She has completely distorted the context of what happened and her need to "repair" is not repair it's control and punishment and blame. She has her husband who can support her and my husband is supporting me.  We shall see what happens in the coming weeks.  I am having a biopsy done next week to rule out thyroid cancer and my birthday is in March. Also, her in laws are very kind and we get along well. If and when they find out that we are not involved in her life they may see that all those times she had problems with them they may start to realise she has a serious problem and will be concerned for their son.  I pray she gets the help she needs.  She is in therapy but I sometimes think clients can manipulate their therapists to get the support they want and not the support they need. Thanks again 

Wendy - the drama is never over.  But I agree.  Lesson learned here for me.  Goal #1 is always to step out of the drama.  I just need to remind myself that whatever she does or doesn’t do is her, not me, that she is expecting a response from me.

It’s not the ideal relationship or partnership, but I don’t think a pwBPD is capable of that.  I want to be able to have open and honest dialogue with my wife, but I have learned opening my mouth and saying more than is needed is wading through danger.  W thinks it is lonely.  But that is on her.

Today she sent the other woman a text message, but I don’t understand her motivation.  It sounds like it was a “have a nice life” message recognizing her emotions and how she feels hurt by the other woman’s r/s.  The other woman hasn’t responded, and now W is obsessing about that.  Now, by virtue of being under the same roof, am guaranteed to hear about this for awhile. 

There is a strange irony here - W thinks having an open relationship will solve her problems and stabilize her emotions and stabilizing our marriage.  But it is that same behavior that kept her from having stable relationships for her whole life.

Like she told MC last week - that she feels the reason she is unstable is because i won’t allow her to sleep around, yet one must have a stable marriage first in order to have an open marriage.

Hi Silent Tide and welcome
Yes this is a place where people understand just how difficult – if not impossible - the journey is with a loved one with BPD. I like the screen name you have chosen – it made me think yes, bpd is like a tsunami that engulfs all in it’s path!

I also understand the complexity of your situation – because it is also my situation. Lately for me it has been terrible because DD and her teenage daughter are at loggerheads ALL the time.
I agree with ForeverDad about trying to access support for yourself and everyone else in the family – if possible. Once again we can be so limited it what support is available and how it is able to help.

One thing I have found it that it is helpful to be ‘detached’ in my mind. This is something I work towards. I tell myself I will do this, that etc for them and I find a space where I am thinking/doing something else. I think the intense emotional state of the BPD person draws our mind in – and we find that they are on our mind 24/7.

I used to work, then retired and have recently found different work – a few hours, 5 days a fortnight. Being not available at these times is a great help! The skills are important too. Is it possible to help the others to develop these skills too? It made a world of difference to me to learn how and when to validate/how and when to disengage etc. Most of the time I am now able to ‘switch’ my mind to something else, even when DD is stomping around the house, clearly cruising for a bruising.
The reason I haven’t been so able recently is that her teenage daughter doesn’t have these skills and engages and the whole thing escalates.

I think to look for anything that can be a ‘BPD free zone’ in your life is really important – this, and the skills have helped me cope – sometimes just! – with a situation similar to yours.

Sending thoughts . . .

That's interesting.  That might explain the loop that repeats, no matter how much pain his words or actions cause,  it's not enough for him to stop the behavior.  It's followed by either later acting like nothing happened, or occasionally tearful apologies. Never resolution and the rest of us are supposed to sweep it under the rug until the next blow up.

He used substances before I met him, probably all of his teen years plus, and a sibling was almost killed which changed the family dynamics.  I surely think that all had an impact on his emotional and mind development.

I like to dig and dig to find answers so it's foreign to me that other people aren't so inclined!  If your life is a mess, why wouldn't you search for why that is?  I guess because parts of the mind are hidden even from the owner. The mind is mind boggling. ;)

Pefect- you didn't try to control her going out. This took away her need to push back. You were not attempting to control her decision. The rest was up to her.

I was thinking of suggesting that some time to yourself could be a possible "benefit" to her going out, but of course, it's not a reason for her to date other people. Still, you were able to relax and get some self care rather than fret over what she may or may not be doing.

You simply asked how it was. You didn't question more, pry, or get angry, or emotionally react.

As what can happen- the reality of her meeting with this person didn't match what she imagined it would be like. By not trying to stop her, you allowed her to figure this out herself. When she was away from you, her actions were up to her.

I also don't think the drama is over because, this is just one manifestation of your wife's BPD drama. However, you handled this well and hopefully can use some of these skills in other situations with her.



 

It seems like she didn't make many years of DBT. Maybe in the 90s, BPD was too stigmatized, or someone stigmatized her. Maybe a romantic partner? Anyway, you might be in the best position to make her feel comfortable again in going through more DBT.

Apart from that, I think part of what creates the need for this behavior is her unconscious goal of upsetting you and starting a major conflict. Because this is one of the few ways she can effectively get you out of balance. Does that make sense?

There is an explanation for all of this, which came out in 2010 but was ignored because it is too technical and there was no proof, just a theory. But for me it explains everything:
https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2010-06891-012

The full content can be purchased, but it has been available on Scribd.com since 2023.

So, based on this theory, their chronic depression comes from an underactive endogenous opioid system, and what makes them interpret things in a way that makes them angry is an unconscious attempt to stimulate it.

So it's not that his PTSD makes him angry, but it may be used as an excuse. Or he might even try to retraumatize himself.

For instance, before knowing me, my wife traumatized herself by spending the night at the beach in a bikini. She says that it got too late, so the subway had closed, and she didn't have money to pay for a cab. Obviously she was putting herself at risk, and there were other solutions. During the night, she got her phone robbed and went through sexual assault. For the rest of the night, she tried to stay crouched to avoid being seen by other men. As a result, she developed a specific phobia around walking. But specific phobias are relatively easy to treat, and I have tried all possible ways of healing her from it, but nothing works because unconsciously she doesn't want to let go of the trauma. Instead, she keeps doing avoidance behavior, which worsens it. There were times in which we had to use a wheelchair. Now we use just mullets, but it's very limiting. She has already cried about not being able to heal from it and said that I didn't deserve to go through this. But it is her unconscious mind that doesn't allow her to heal. After trying regular psychotherapy and hypnotherapy, I found out that EMDR was ideal for her. She loves her EMDR therapist but kept avoiding the intense sessions, then stopped attending EMDR sessions. As I insisted, she rescheduled, but when her EMDR therapy was finally about to heal her with another intensive session, she missed it. And during the exact time of the therapy, she insisted that she wanted to go to the beach by herself. Guess what? It was unconscious, but she wanted to traumatize herself again. This is self-destructive and similar to a suicide attempt, but the goal is just to stimulate their EOS.

Two days from now, she will start a low-dosage off-label pharmacological treatment, and I am hoping it will fix this biochemical issue. If I'm right, then in a few weeks she should not feel the need to follow those patterns anymore. Then she would allow her brain to rewire in healthier ways. Otherwise, if the pharmacological treatment is not effective, then maybe it will take a few years of DBT before we can live together again.

Hopefully this helps you to make some sense of the nonsense.

My wife was diagnosed BPD as a teenager - that was probably about 1990.  She went thru DBT then, and probably off and on until her late 20s.  Without it, she would probably be dead by now, so in that regard it was a success.  Then sometime in her late 20s, another T diagnosed her with PTSD.  Since then, W has latched onto that diagnosis.  It's either the internal shame she feels over BPD, the need to downplay BPD to not scare others away, or the fact that PTSD garners a victim response, rather than an aspect of her personality that is flawed.  But very, very clearly W checks all the boxes for BPD.

This has played a role in the recent events.  W seems unwilling to look at the role her personality (and personal trauma) plays in what she is feeling now.  Instead, it seems she is trying to accept her being a person who likes to sleep around as normal and natural as a way to justify her urges, and others who do not (such as me) as out of touch with themselves.  In her mind, it seems she feels much of her "trauma" stems from a lack of acceptance from herself and others for who she is.  It's not the normal "actions have consequences" thinking that most of us have. 

In other words :  Sleeping around is more likely to bring emotional drama and trauma, whether that be biological or cultural, it is the way life works in our society.  In W's disordered mind:  Sleeping around brings trauma and drama only because other people are cruel.  The irony is that W might have had a casual sexual relationship, then feel hurt that the other person did not want an emotional connection.  For W, that is trauma because the other person backed away. 

Most people understand that and learn from our mistakes and step away from situations that in the moment may be exciting, but we know long term will only cause grief.  W seems, for the moment, to be in a state of mind that is at least partially receptive to that.  Her interest in polyamorous relationships is based upon her short term emotional urges rather than what is good for the long term.  She was at least able to admit that in some wat this morning.  Progress, but without a professional to help process it she is likely back to her previous mindset in a few day s or weeks. 

Hi SuperDaddy,

Setting boundaries is getting easier for me, I am able to detach more instead of letting emotions get the best of me.  It's easier with our daughter I mentioned above as she doesn't live at home, harder being in the same house together with my husband, like it is for you  living with your wife.

I'm not sure I would say our counseling has had a whole lot of success, especially couples. Individual has helped me some. I feel he goes just enough to give me hope things will get better then he quits.  We've been to some who have said we would get to the bottom of his anger, which he acknowledges he uses as a tool, so far that hasn't happened and his anger is still caused by me, according to him.  He does blow up at other people too. 

Last night I quietly asked him to do something, made sure I was clear in what I was saying and it was a request, not a demand.  He blew up and brought it up this morning and once again he anger was because I looked angry/rude, in short all my fault he responded in anger.  I've said for years I will never get it right, "it" being how I speak or look, or whatever his perception is and justifies his anger.  He can't hear well and it's my job to make sure he hears me, I said if you go to the doctor and get your hearing tested and a hearing aid won't help, then I will accommodate you by speaking louder and/or making sure you can see my lips.  (I'm either not speaking loud enough or I'm yelling)

I also have hopes for our future as we continue to watch sermons and he likes to say a prayer before he  leaves for the day.  That's HUGE for him! He has searched for sermons for men also, found some darn good ones.

 During that quiet time before the prayer he did listen when I suggested that maybe his anger is because he has PTSD (he has some understanding of what PTSD from interacting with our daughter) and how helpful it could be if he talked to someone and worked through it.  I can see how unhappy he is, I believe he holds deep shame, not sure he has PTSD, the BPD and NPD makes the most sense, I would love it if he got a professional diagnosis.