Hi mssalty ,

For a person with BPD, if their partner brings up frustrations, they will find the worst possible interpretation of it, such as interpreting it all as a criticism and possible rejection. But why? The reason why they interpret things like that is because this interpretation is the one that elicits the biggest conflict (at least in their head).

They will say they want you to apologize, but unconsciously they just want you to engage in the fight. This is why they make things so frustrating for you, so that you lose your grip and explode as well.

But why on earth would someone want something so defeating and harmful for the relationship? Because they need the endorphin reward they get from the conflict, and this is of primal importance for them to regulate their brain [**]. Unfortunately, when doing so, they are so involved in the conflict that they don't even remember it will push their partner away.

But as Pook075 explained, if you love this person, then there might be another way around because:

"They just want to feel loved and supported in every interaction. They want to feel like they matter and they're seen."

That works so well because feeling loved releases endorphins and also activates many other neurocircuits in the brain. Therefore, it replaces the need for conflict. Have you ever tried to disarm your SO using this approach?

[**] see the EOS theory on BPD: https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2010-06891-012

Hi WizerNow;

Good suggestions from mitochondrium about (a) not JADE-ing (which just adds fuel to the fire), and (b) being responsible for your own responsibilities and not over functioning for others (which can lead to resentment).

A helpful thread on not JADE-ing is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

...

How did you end up navigating the appointment day?

Hi PathFinder1;

You mention your H is in recovery from alcoholism -- how is that going? Is he getting any kind of support or therapy for that right now (AA, recovery group, sponsor, counselor)?

How long does his cycle/pattern of
 frustration --> muttering/monologue --> accusations of you ignoring him
last? A few hours, a day, a few days...? Does it seem to go differently if you do vs don't engage with the content of his expressions?

Really sorry to hear about the blowup... Even though on the one hand we can "expect" this to happen when there's a pwBPD in our life, on the other hand, if things have been smooth (enough) lately, it can be so devastating -- like things will never change.

And yes, I've heard from other members here that chaos and reaction can feel "safer" (or, like "this is familiar, I can deal with this") to a pwBPD. So it's not surprising that you noticed that as well.

Can you remind me if your partner is in any kind of treatment or therapy at this time?

Do the two of you ever communicate about conflict in any other medium besides verbally (ie texting, emailing)?

It is exhausting living with someone with BPD in the family system. When and where do you get a break from it all? Work? Commuting? Hobby? Friends?

I just hear you being so tired right now.

Hi Halcyon_days
Just when you think things are a bit settled - wham! It does seem as though your son moving in is the trigger because the three of you were going along quite well. Is your son easy to get on with and do he and your partner get on well? If so, bingo!

I think it is a good thing that DHS is involved. These things are so complex though and it is hard to find a solution. I have an awful problem atm because my DD and her daughter are at each other all the time - the daughter calling police etc. It is truly awful.

But there is no easy solution!

Can you tell us a bit more about your son's situation? Where was he living before, was he working and why did he make the move to be with you.

I am not sure that having ds and dd under the same roof is ever going to work - or not for a long time in the future anyway. If you move dd out I think that would be the beginning of a different chaos and demands (GD here looked at supported youth accommodation, but has backed out each time she got a place).

I hope having the others involved will lead to some viable options. In the meantime - I hear you!!!

I understand the situation. However, I don't think your wife not getting her wish to date other people is going to spare you and the kids from triangulation or being put in rescuer position. I think this latest "crisis" is another example of how her mental illness affects her.

Just as my BPD mother would focus on the solution, once she got it, it would at best, provide only a temporary reprieve. However, any restrictions on her getting it would increase her emotional distress as she believed, in the moment, she had to have that solution.

I think I can understand why Dad just gave in. The more she was restricted from getting her "solution" the more her emotional distress increased.

This was a standoff. As her distress increased, so did her BPD behavior, she'd rage, trash the house, threaten to self harm. The more anyone dug their heels in, the more she escalated.

Reasoning with her, trying to talk to her didn't work because in the moment with her emotional distress so high, she couldn't reason. She just had to have what she thought she needed to have to ease it.

In the moment, the only way to stop this was to give in. She'd relax, almost instantly, and be very happy and relieved. Until the next crisis.

I don't know why your wife thinks you are stopping her. She could do it anyway. You certainly don't have to agree with it, or tell her it's OK. I don't suggest you do that. But you can stop circular discussions and talking about it.

This is tough. I understand this because I've experienced this pattern too with BPD mother.

Thanks all for the comments and support. Still pondering over the weekend and figuring out how to pull together the funds for the retainer. I want to have that ready plus at least that same amount available in case it's needed quickly. A wrench in the whole works is I may need a surgery that would be difficult to put off for a year or more. It would leave me in a sling for around 6 weeks with a 12 week recovery... so I'm likely going to get back with the surgeon to get that scheduled ASAP but it in reality shouldn't throw off my schedule too much. But I don't want to be incapacitated when this 'goes down'. Instead of a mid to late March filing it could be a month or 2 later. Going to discuss with my therapist this week.

Absolutely doing my best to go along as normal. I have no plan to let her know ahead of time. It won't change the outcome. I'm waiting to rip the band-aid off quickly. Same activities and patterns. But FD - I know what you mean, sometimes her sense of micro changes is impressive. I'm trying to use some other things going on in life as a distraction and explanation for any 'oddness' that she might sense.

For good or bad there aren't any measurable funds in 'joint' account she could raid. She has much more in her own personal accounts (IRA rollovers, etc) which are technically still marital assets but I don't have access to them. I am opening up some additional bank accounts before I file. I plan on moving all my bill pay to an account she can't access so I can switch as soon as I file.

CC43 - good advice and I do try to honor that. Despite all the overt bad stuff that goes on I don't put down my wife in front of the kids. I am fairly straight forward with my 19 year old when she asks me how mom is. I have an appt with my d19's therapist this week to discuss how to help support her through this. I am trying to think through all those things and yes assume that a court or judge could see something. I'll be relying on my lawyer a lot as well as well as what's okay or what I should avoid.

Wendy, you nailed it.  I think the crisis is much deeper than simply not wanting to be monogamous.  I think is about feeling confined and restrained and overwhelming emotions that come from that.

My concern with her dating other women is that I, and the kids, are the ones to deal with the inevitable fallout.  The kids are old enough to he aware, and they are already deeply affected by W’s social dramas.  My other concern is triangulation and I see no escape from the drama triangle.  Right now, I am the persecutor in nearly all regards while the potential for an outside r/s is the rescuer..  When that other r/s falls apart, I (and the kids) become the rescuer. 

What was the crisis about? Was it because your wife wants to date women and you aren't on board with that. Is her default to go to being hopeless- like if she can't do this then she may as well just be gone?

This is the kind of thinking and response my BPD mother would do to avoid moving forward with an alternate plan. Rather than agree to see her therapist, she'd throw another monkey wrench into the mix by saying "I need you to help me find one". Note- the perspective is victim.

These are tough situations because, sometimes the threat is manipulative and sometimes it's real. Hard to know what. In this case, she didn't appear to be serious about it. BPD mother would do that- it derails the conversation. There's no solution. She'd say things like she just is going to close her eyes and die. Another more absurd one was that she'd jump out the window, the one locked and high up window in her room at assisted living that there's no way anyone could climb up to or get out.

But the conversation goes nowhere after that. I think this is what the MC experienced. She can not help either of you in this situation.

Seems the current dispute is her wanting to date women. And if it's her focus, she's going to project her issues on to that as the solution, and by not giving in to that, you are keeping her from her (imagined) happiness.

My question for you is - what are you most worried about if she does that. (putting any morality reason aside- not that it's not important but to get to other concerns). Is it because you think it's going to hurt her by triggering trauma? Because- this is managing her consequences, and a possible outcome that may not happen. You don't need to manage her feelings, even if you fear she will bring that back home. The drama will be with the other person.

I think this is one reason why my father "looked the other way" at my mother's behavior. If he wasn't up to divorcing her, there really was no way to hold a boundary with her. I don't know if she ever cheated or not, but she basically did what she wanted to do, regardless of how anyone else felt about it. Trying to get her to understand how her behavior affected anyone else didn't seem to work.

As to MC, this is basically through talk. If your wife is not capable of having a reasonable discussion, and does this "derail" response, no MC can be effective.

I think the MC is seeing this as a little bit of a unique situation - almost crisis-like. That was the vibe I got. 

She’d prefer if we met with our individual therapists more and then with her maybe once per month.  But, W expressed desire to find a new individual therapist and also spoke in very grim language, so MC floated the ida of helping W in that regard, but needing to examine policies and ethics. 

When I say “crisis” it is because W made completely hopeless sounding statements using words like “never” and “I might as well just die”.  There was no room for any outcome that would work in a positive direction.