I don't know what to say or what is up with me...

[sadinnc98]

I went through 27 yrs of this stuff, it wasn't that bad in the beginning, probably because when we got married we lived with my mom because my dad just died and she couldn't afford the bills.  His "mask" came off when we bought our house.  There were flags there the whole time, but they weren't that frequent back then.  From the day we moved into our own house all h3ll broke loose.

I wanted to tell you that since I also noticed you are looking at houses together.  These r/s aren't r/s, they are a one way ticket to h3ll.  I wouldn't wish what I went through on anyone, even my worst enemy.  It just sucks the life out of you, you keep doing and doing and doing for them to try to get them not to explode, but they explode anyway.  They are emotional vampires.  By the time they are done with you, you have nothing left to give them anymore, and you have less then nothing to give yourself.  They just sucked you dry.  

It's hard not to pick up the phone, or to read an email, or a text.  You are always hoping that they came to their senses, and that they love you.  If you get one of those, it is because he is trying to suck you back into h3ll.

One thing that I did whenever I got an urge to call him was to play old vm's from him, or read old text.  They were all the same.  Angry and blaming, then with shaking hands, I would put the phone down and walk away.

 

Thank you--this sounds like excellent advice. I am sorry you had to deal with all of that.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, I am planning to go out of town tonight-hotel with a spa, etc... . I am forcing myself-Ive had a really tough day though. This stuff sucks the life out of you!

Yes it does, and I found the only way to deal with it at this point is to break free.  Enjoy your freedom, and maybe leave your phone at home?

[sadinnc98]

Yes, I am planning to go out of town tonight-hotel with a spa, etc... . I am forcing myself-Ive had a really tough day though. This stuff sucks the life out of you!

Yes it does, and I found the only way to deal with it at this point is to break free.  Enjoy your freedom, and maybe leave your phone at home?

If I didn't have kids, I would do that!

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes, I am planning to go out of town tonight-hotel with a spa, etc... . I am forcing myself-Ive had a really tough day though. This stuff sucks the life out of you!

Yes it does, and I found the only way to deal with it at this point is to break free.  Enjoy your freedom, and maybe leave your phone at home?

Tell them where you're going and give them the phone number?

If I didn't have kids, I would do that!

Tell them where you're going and give them the phone number?

[winston72]

I am alerted to something simple that is profound, it caused(s) me great pain and its reversal is a source of great relief.  It is embodied in this quote from Jynx, ":)on't even try to think about what he might be thinking.  It can make you "nuts"."

The subtle shift in focus from self to the other, when the other is so troubled, is devastating.  And it keeps pulling us into pain and frustration.  The shift from other to self starts to bring wholeness.  So simple, so profound.  I have been and still am oriented to trying to understand my ex, to make sense of the non-sensical. 

Sad, another thing comes to mind that helped me.  I came to view some of these interactions as injuries.  The conflicts were so painful and destructive that it impaired my ability to function.  I was injured.  I was slow to recognize it.  I would treat myself better if I had sprained my ankle.  If you are injured, you stop trying to use the joint, muscle, whatever and as a first priority you give it time and nurture to heal.  You would not even try to rehabilitate the injury until you rested it.  It seems to me that you need to rest and recover before you try to act in any way toward this relationship.

Please keep us informed.  So many people are rooting for you.

[sadinnc98]

Thank you guys for all of the support, I don't know what i would do.    I try to help where I can too and promise to pay it forward when I am in a better place. I am struggling so bad today.  I decided this week that I am going to look for a new job and move about an hour from here-I have been wanting to do it for a long time-get a fresh start. My nickname in college was Sunshine... and I need to get that girl back again... .

[fromheeltoheal]

My nickname in college was Sunshine... and I need to get that girl back again... .

Yes!   

[sadinnc98]

He just texted: "By the way: I was able to sell our tickets for the art benefit tonight. Im not going"

I waited an hour and just wrote back: Ok

He did that to be mean in my opinion. He knew I was very excited to go-it was going to be a fun, dress up type event.  I knew he just wanted to get under my skin as there was no reason for him to have messaged me that.

[sadinnc98]

Oh no:

"I know its tough. Hard to let go. We had a love and passion that most don't ever have"



HELP ME! WHat do I say to this?

[seeking balance]

Oh no:

"I know its tough. Hard to let go. We had a love and passion that most don't ever have"

HELP ME! WHat do I say to this?

Say nothing until tomorrow - you are spinning Sad - let yourself breathe for 24 hours so you can think clearly... .

[sadinnc98]

Oh no:

"I know its tough. Hard to let go. We had a love and passion that most don't ever have"

HELP ME! WHat do I say to this?

Say nothing until tomorrow - you are spinning Sad - let yourself breathe for 24 hours so you can think clearly... .

That is what I was thinking too-because my first impulse was to react off of emotion and I know that is not right.

[GreenMango]

Say Nothing.  It isn't a question about business. It's a fight picking statement to alleviate guilty feelings about behavior or conduct.

Sad- I'm with others on trying to trying to figure out what he's thinking.  My guess he's not he's reacting impulsively looking for something to fix the bad feelings he's having.

This man is highly emotionally manipulative and abusive.   I'd like to urge you to continue to look at what you want and need.   Your values for a relationship and to compare it to what he's offering.

Do they align?  

Sometimes listing this out in print helps to show us where things aren't right and gives us the permission to let go.

[seeking balance]

Sad- I'm with others on trying to trying to figure out what he's thinking.  My guess he's not he's reacting impulsively looking for something to fix the bad feelings he's having.

Sad, I am not sure you can emotionally here what GM is telling you in this - but he is triggered and he is putting his hurt on you - this is classic BPD behavior and the ONLY way you can stay sane is to back away and regroup.  You have the power over your own life - I know it is hard, but back away for a bit so you can stop the insanity.

[sadinnc98]

Sad- I'm with others on trying to trying to figure out what he's thinking.  My guess he's not he's reacting impulsively looking for something to fix the bad feelings he's having.

Sad, I am not sure you can emotionally here what GM is telling you in this - but he is triggered and he is putting his hurt on you - this is classic BPD behavior and the ONLY way you can stay sane is to back away and regroup.  You have the power over your own life - I know it is hard, but back away for a bit so you can stop the insanity.

What do you mean he is triggered? Like because I am not responding the way he wants he feels abandoned and wants me to beg him back or something?  I have been very short with him, have not initiated messages with him, etc... . I have tried hard to detach.  You are right-I am not totally clear on what GM was saying although I have reread it several times... . but maybe I am getting it now? I have noticed he keeps logging in and out of Facebook to see if I have responded to him.

[Conundrum]

Oh no:

"I know its tough. Hard to let go. We had a love and passion that most don't ever have"



HELP ME! WHat do I say to this?

I'm sorry for what you're going through, but I don't think there is a gentle way of saying that you're playing right into his hands. You're letting the dysregulated one--dysregulate you. He's got you jumping emotionally left and right, like a wound up jack-in-the box. You're taking every little thing he's saying seriously, like it's gospel. Half of what they say doesn't matter, and the half that does will change anyway. Only their actions matter.

You cannot let the pwBPD get the upper hand this way, because they will run with it forever unless some sane authority is established--and that means consequences. If you really want to be with this guy, you have to get a handle on this sooner than later. This is bullying, manipulation and just being an ass. It's about respect for you, and him not playing these silly mean BPD games.

The methods of communication he's throwing at you, are totally within his bag o tricks and no relationship with a pwBPD can work if they don't respect you enough to stop that. Sorry, but you have to stand up to him, and change this dynamic. It can be done calmly, without anger (on your part), without shaming him--but you have to speak your core truths to him. The whole eggshell game, is only about surviving with a pwBPD. If you want to try thriving with him you have to be willing to lose the relationship. I wish there was another way but there isn't. He has to be called out by you when he is playing these games. Children are taught discipline, and it's the same here. It's not about shaming, but establishing functional order. Just my opinion, hope things get better for you.       

[jynx]

I have an idea.  Log off of facebook, get out of your email, shut off your phone.  Stay here and tell us about "you".

You mentioned before that you were thinking of moving, guess also a new job.  Tell us about that, get your mind off of him.   

[fromheeltoheal]

What do you mean he is triggered? Like because I am not responding the way he wants he feels abandoned and wants me to beg him back or something?  I have been very short with him, have not initiated messages with him, etc... . I have tried hard to detach.  You are right-I am not totally clear on what GM was saying although I have reread it several times... . but maybe I am getting it now? I have noticed he keeps logging in and out of Facebook to see if I have responded to him.

It means he is feeling abandoned already, he's re-experiencing the trauma that created the disorder to begin with, he's panicking and driven by emotion, and needs a scapegoat, you.  There is no making rational sense of what's going on with him.

You are caught up in it and the only way to stop it is stop communicating with him.  I thought you were going somewhere?  I know you need that phone because you have kids, but you need to find a way to turn it off, block his texts, whatever, or this will continue.  Total disconnect is your only option right now.

[jynx]

I can't say for sure, because no one can, but my guess is this is what I call the "bait" and "trap".  He tried to get a reaction from you since the morning, you really didn't give him one, so now he tries this one, expecting you to call him and scream at him.  If you do this, you know it will be all your fault, because he couldn't get in touch with you all day long, (poor him), and he had to sell the tickets.

So he baits you for a response, if you give him one, he got you in the "trap".  You can't do anything about this to make anything any better because the tickets are gone, even if they are not gone, and he really didn't sell them, then out of guilt you would probably go.

All around ---- you lose

[seeking balance]

Sad- I'm with others on trying to trying to figure out what he's thinking.  My guess he's not he's reacting impulsively looking for something to fix the bad feelings he's having.

Sad, I am not sure you can emotionally here what GM is telling you in this - but he is triggered and he is putting his hurt on you - this is classic BPD behavior and the ONLY way you can stay sane is to back away and regroup.  You have the power over your own life - I know it is hard, but back away for a bit so you can stop the insanity.

What do you mean he is triggered? Like because I am not responding the way he wants he feels abandoned and wants me to beg him back or something?  I have been very short with him, have not initiated messages with him, etc... . I have tried hard to detach.  You are right-I am not totally clear on what GM was saying although I have reread it several times... . but maybe I am getting it now? I have noticed he keeps logging in and out of Facebook to see if I have responded to him.

Sad - I am saying this not to be unkind, but to show you how spinning you are - how is it any different that you are checking him as he is checking you.

Hon, he is triggered (because he is, nobody here knows why) and you are just as triggered and obsessing  yourself - you cannot change him, but you can work on you.

Can you stop with Facebook - go for a run - I thought you were going to a spa or something like that?

You need to rebalance yourself so you can make decisions not based on your triggered emotional state.

[GreenMango]

I apologize for being unclear.   I wasnt trying to be cryptic.   Seeking balance and others pointed to what I was meaning.

Any kind of uncontrollable emotional upset that sparks unreasonable and inappropriate responses.

It could be angry trigger, shame trigger,  or rejection trigger.   We can't really know what's going on in his head.

Just looking at how this all played out we do know this:

-he lied

-he got confronted on, if nothing else , an inappropriate emotional entanglement with someone else

-he did not take responsibility

-he applied the guilt, shame and bullying on you instead putting you on your back for to justify your action instead (this is called projection - Sometimes is transference)

-he then applied more pressure on you to take responsibility for his poor behavior and is effectively punishing you for not trusting his untrustworthy behavior.


Sometimes we need other people to confirm things.   I'm going to confirm that he's being abusive.   At this point even if you were on the staying board, the seasoned stayers will tell you you don't stick around for abuse.   You give yourself a time out and when thins calm down then you can try to iron things out.   You don't validate abuse... . It's not the time to have any type of discussion because abusive people don't think.   They react.   That's why they get into trouble and do stupid stuff.

Here's the deal... . I'm with Conundrum on how he's got you emotionally jumping around responding to his screw up.   My guess is he's been pulling this for a long time and you've apologized probably for a lot things you've didn't need too.  He's used to you making this better and soothing his crappy feelings, whether it's guilt shame whatever.   It really doesn't matter. What matters is what his behavior tells you about who he is.

His desperate emails are an extinction burst.   They are meant to have you cave in and do what he's used to you doing.   Soothing him and allowing him to feel okay about his conduct.   If you've changed how you react recently this is a shock to him and he's going to pump up the volume. This is the loss of control.  

It sounds like you doubt yourself.  Most people would develop this sense of self doubt when faced with a person like this who's consistently blame shifts, accuses and demeans them.    As nd then end up apologizing to him for his behavior.  This is classic abused partner reactions to quell the conflict.  It's a really awful place to be.  It's very hard to get out of this dynamic workout help.   Do you have a therapist?

Sad do you want to try and have a relationship with this man?   If you do the leaving board isn't the best place to work the program.   It's works better on the undecided or staying board and giving some of the tools a fair shot.

If you want to detach.   And from what I've read about him,  he's been cycling around this abusive behavior quite a lot.   I'd suggest in your case some time no contact while your emotions get settled because seriously he's very good at the old bait and switch. ... and you sound very vulnerable.  He's a mentally ill guy in the drivers seat.

Is telling him you don't feel well and need some time alone a possibility for you?

[sadinnc98]

Thank you for everyone's responses and GM thanks for clarifying... . and I will be honest with what happened last night, and its not good and not pretty. I am going to try a counselor this week because I think I am so wrapped into this I don't know how to get myself out of it... I see, hear and listen but can't take action (which I really need to) and I think I need some help  I recognize that this situation is bad, really bad. I was hurting last night and made a poor decision.

I got weak last night and agreed to meet him for a drink as his texts were making me really sad and I felt like I was hurting him by being cold.

Last night went down in flames BAD.  Everything was ok and we were having a good time. it was a little awkward but in general fun. He kept bringing up lil comments about the confrontation last Sat PM and I ignored them and it was fine.

We went to a second bar after I met him at the first and we had a couple of drinks (he was planning to stay, he even brought stuff, I realized later) Well at that bar the crowd was weird and he told me to stay tight to him and not to really dance or anything. The bar wasn't crowded really, good band and we live in a small town, nothing scary. I didn't even realize it I guess but I danced a little bit (right by him)... . the music was going and I don't even think I realized... but anyway apparently these guys were behind me. I never saw them. Next thing I know he is LIVID and says "OK WE ARE GOING"... I was like "what?" I kept asking him what was going on and why we were leaving. He was like "STOP ARGUING WITH ME!" by the time we get in the car he is screaming at me in a full on rage-I have never experienced that from him in person. He screamed at me at the top of his lungs from that bar till we got to my car. He said "THE ONE TIME IN TWO YEARS I ASK YOU NOT TO DO SOMETHING YOU EFFING DO IT. I TOLD YOU NOT TO EFFING DANCE AND YOU EFFING DID IT ANYWAY." He said "You didn't even realize it but you backed into one of them and the guy said he was going to "HIT THAT" and the other one said, "That is her dude" and they said "Who gives a eff" and he said there was about to be a scene and that they were laughing when we left. I only had a few drinks and was not drunk or anything. I did not see or witness any of this! I don't know what happened!  He screamed that same stuff at me at least 10 times.

How did I not know any of this went on? I was mere inches from him with my hand on his leg.  He said... "that part I can get over, that you danced, but what I cannot is you effing arguing with me!  I wasn't arguing with him. I had no idea what happened, why we were leaving and what was going on so I was asking him. That is all.

I was truly so confused! I didn't see any of that, I had no idea what he was talking about. I wasn't arguing, I was asking. He was in a RAGE. He told me that I am turning into ex-wife, he doesn't know who I am anymore-two weekends in a row I act out of character. He says you didnt listen to me, I am so sick of this. We pull up to my car, I ask him to come to my house, lets sleep on it and talk in the morning and he said "NO EFFING WAY" and asks me to get out of his car and we go back and forth a little more, he is continuing to scream at me.  So I get out and get in my car. I am crying by this point. I get in my car and sit there just processing what happened and then hear a car honking-its him. He wanted me to leave so he could follow me home to make sure I got home ok, which he did, then left. I tried to call him to talk and he would not answer and I have not heard from him. I am sick to my stomach over this whole thing. I really didn't mean to do anything wrong-I don't even think I realized what I was doing. I wasn't doing some kind of provocative dance, I just moved along to the music-not even really realizing it? I was right by him... .

I can tell something is "off" with him... he didn't seem right the whole night-couldn't put my finger on it.

This message makes it sound far better than it was-it was a  nightmare. I have never experienced a rage like that, not ever. I am shaken up. He was so angry, so mean, so loud-full of rage... . I think he is a really scary guy  

[jynx]

Hi,

You did nothing wrong last night, and you have nothing to feel guilty about.  You were just standing, moving to music, everyone does this.  YOU. DID. NOTHING. WRONG.

I only joined this board a few days ago.  I am already divorced 4 years.  I think I needed that long away from my marriage to clear the F.O.G. out of my head, so that I could look at things clearly, and without emotion. 

I can understand things a lot better now, but even if I knew then what I know now, I still could have not dealt with the behavior.  I would never have been able to be me, to act spontaneously.  I would always be thinking ahead to the next 5 minutes, next 10 minutes, what can I do to prevent another rage?

What you wrote above may seem to you like you minimized things, and I don't know, maybe you did, or maybe I can read in between the line, with my own experience.  Sometimes I think that there are no words to describe the terror of it. 

I know it is hard to get out of these relationships, look at me, took me 27 yrs.  What happens is you begin to develop Stockholm Syndrome, PTSD, anxiety, and panic attacks.  You only existence in life soon becomes planning on how you should act just to survive a day with him.  You try to go to sleep at night and your can't, your mind is just constantly running around trying to think of other ways to say things to him, so that he could understand that you are hurting, but without hurting him as you tell him.  Please understand that there is no way to do this.

If you breakup with him now, it will be hard for awhile, but it does hurt less and less each day.  You know, you are entitled to happiness in your life.  You can move on from here and find your calmness and happiness.  You won't find it while you stay. 

Read back over your threads here, remember each situation, how often they occur.  Is this what you want the rest of your life to be?  Then think that for every tactic of his that you are able to deal with, and not react to, he will find new, more torturous ones to replace them.  He is not going to get any better. but you can!   

I do know and understand what you are going through and how tough this is on you. 

We go round and round in circles trying to find the right way to say that we hurt, but you know what, they aren't listening. 

Do not try to contact him.  Last night wasn't your fault, and it was already twisted around to being your fault.  You'll only hear more of the same.

[babyducks]

Sad,

I have also had the experience of having my EX tell me that things happened or were said in a conversation or a situation that I question.   They were not what I experienced or remembered occurring.   BPD is a serious disorder and a component of it is distorted thinking.   Its was very disorienting for me and made me question my own reality. I know how hard that is to process.

You sound like you are still badly shaken.  As you should be.  That was a lot to go through.  It also sounds like maybe his behavior is escalating.

Just for an alternate opinion,  I want to say that if I was out in a bar and some one or something threatened the person I was with, my reaction would be terror that some one I cared for might be hurt, and protection to make sure the person I cared about was okay, both physically and emotionally.  That's not what happened in your case.  You were (perhaps) threatened, and then blamed for it.  Can you see how that isn't okay?

Let me ask, what can you do to take care of yourself today?  I am a little concerned by the apparent escalation.   My one and only suggestion is do something to turn down the volume on the conflict.  Lie if you have to.  Say,  "I think I have picked up a bug, I am going to spend the day in bed with a cup of tea."  Whatever works for you.  Give yourself the day off.

You don't have to make decisions that effect all of your life today while dealing with the fallout from the night before.   

Find a way to get through today without drama.   Give yourself that gift.

my two cents

babyducks

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Sad

I've been in that exact situation, genders reversed; it is hell and I'm sorry it happened.

But this could be the good news; have you had enough yet?  Know that it will only get worse, not better.  Like ducks said, you don't want to act while you're shaken up, but you can make a real decision that you can act on later, using the emotion as fuel. For now, avoid him, don't fuel the fire, process, rest, decide.

[sadinnc98]

I am definitely going to step back today. I am going to shop in another town and get some lunch.

He texted me this morning and said he did not want to see me and to NOT stop by his house today. I guess I am still being punished?

We are technically broken up by the way... I don't know what all of that was last night or why he even came here...

[GreenMango]

 rage... . I think he is a really scary guy 

I'm with ya on that.

[patientandclear]

Sad, what I notice from your reporting of these recent events, and what I wonder if you notice, is: he is the decider.  You are in the position of constantly wanting to be together, & you are waiting to see if he lets that happen.  He's a raging jerk and you invite him inside, then are hurt that he goes home instead.

Do you see that another role is possible for you, where he behaves poorly, YOU decide "that's not what I want to be around," you tell him you don't want to be around that, and YOU decide the evening has ended without you going to bed together?

When you list what he did that was hurtful last night, the list goes (i) he made you leave the bar, (ii) he raged at you and was insulting and hurtful, (iii) he went home, and (iv) he informs you he still does not wish to be in your company.

With boundaries, it's likely you wouldn't have gotten past (i) or maybe (ii).

I get why you still wanted him to come in, sleep on it, let it be better in the morning, because I spent years in that same mode (not with the man about whom I came to these boards BTW).  You want it to turn out differently, to all be better.  You want it to be fixed.

Unfortunately, overlooking this sort of bad behavior and inviting him in doesn't fix it.  It invites him to do it again, and shows that he can cow you back into behaving in what he's told you is the expected fashion -- his extinction burst worked, you've been taught your lesson about not resisting his behavior, and he'll remember to use that approach next time, too.

I'm not saying this to be critical, but to suggest a sort of thought experiment, where you go back over the events of last night & see where you could be the decider, and play that out in your mind, and see if would have led you to feel differently about the situation today. 

[Take2]

Sad... .     I have to add my two cents here quickly - because I too have lived thru the exact same type of rage circumstances - many times in the past year... .   in fact, just days ago... . because a man got on an elevator with me and somehow my ex thru mental telepathy "saw" that I was flirting with the man on the elevator... .

of course in reality, I did not flirt with, speak to or even look at that man... .   it really doesn't matter. 

I suspected he would come to work with a reason to rage... .   he created one the second he saw me... .   and yes, it is beyond scary.  Scary to the point that I've seen him morph into a complete stranger - one that says things so off the wall it's no longer a questioin at all who has a problem. 

And trust me... . It DOES get worse... .   while I was already in therapy, I did go to a domestic violence counselor as well because the intensity really increased at the beginning of the summer.

I know this is so much easier said that done... . but stay broken up... . stay in low or no contact... .   let yourself breathe and become clear enough to realize that this isn't what you want out of life... .

[sadinnc98]

I will update you guys in a bit... . just wanted to check in. This week has been very bad as far as the escalation of the emotional/verbal abuse and cycle of abuse. I went to my first counseling session yesterday and it was very eye opening... . She had a lot of good and some things to say that were bothersome... . I am not sure where to go from here. All I know is this is situation is a mess... . a bad mess.

[fromheeltoheal]

I will update you guys in a bit... . just wanted to check in. This week has been very bad as far as the escalation of the emotional/verbal abuse and cycle of abuse. I went to my first counseling session yesterday and it was very eye opening... . She had a lot of good and some things to say that were bothersome... . I am not sure where to go from here. All I know is this is situation is a mess... . a bad mess.

Maybe there's a silver lining; escalation may mean things are coming to a head so real change can happen?  Hang in there sad, take care of you, and let us know what we can say to help.