Chores and Housework

[fisher101]

I think evading responsibilities is common with pwBPD. Whether it’s through a feeling of victimhood or a narcissistic sense of entitlement, who knows?

Perhaps both, I think.

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[fisher101]

You’re going to deal with drama whether or not you want to. Best to turn it into a comedy. Sometimes I’m the only one laughing (silently of course, just to myself).

Maybe rather than thinking of her as a “bad person” for not having empathy, think of her as an emotional toddler. Little kids are big time narcissists, only thinking of themselves, but that doesn’t make them bad people, just uneducated in the ways of seeing the world through others’ eyes.

I just don't think I can think of an adult this way. I can give a kid a pass, but not an adult. To me an adult is a bad person if they are cruel, unappreciative, lazy, don't feel empathy, selfish ?

The more I learn about bpd the more I think that pwBPD just have deficient (inferior maybe?) moral centers compared to the average person. I'm sorry to say that but its how I feel.

I'd never willingly let another one into my life.

[formflier]

The more I learn about bpd the more I think that pwBPD just have deficient (inferior maybe?) moral centers compared to the average person. I'm sorry to say that but its how I feel.
 

Perhaps in some cases this is true.

A perhaps more accurate perspective is...

Assume a pwBPD is a very moral person, they decide to do something "right" and then for some reason they get "triggered".  Their emotions take control and "BPD" starts happening.

Most likely they are too "emotional" to consider their moral compass.  Once they get back closer to baseline, they will start to regain the ability to make moral decisions.

Best,

FF

[fisher101]

Perhaps in some cases this is true.

A perhaps more accurate perspective is...

Assume a pwBPD is a very moral person, they decide to do something "right" and then for some reason they get "triggered".  Their emotions take control and "BPD" starts happening.

Most likely they are too "emotional" to consider their moral compass.  Once they get back closer to baseline, they will start to regain the ability to make moral decisions.

Best,

FF

Maybe you're right. You probably are. But it's just not how I see it. I see them as the sum total of their behavior. In my wife's case she never makes amends for it either.

I've been through enough that I just don't have any empathy left.

The only thing that's really worked for me is taking a hardline "she can take it or leave it" approach and sticking to it. It seems to have made the penalty for acting out great enough that she at least considers it.

Boundaries don't work for me for the same reason therapy didn't either...in my case its just convincing myself that my favorite part of a crap sandwich isn't the bread.

[waverider]

Late to the party on this thread, but this is a big issue for us.

The reasoning I see is faulty motivators. my pwBPD is motivated solely by impulse, compulsion/obsession and need for gratification/validation. She has no motivators driven by obligation or responsibility.  She can parrot the latter motivators, but the actions dont match the words

So  she will make grand gestures, fancy meal/ clean something/ put something away only when the impulse strikes and only if it is something she can point out and say look what i did (fishing for the gratification or a compliment).

A chore is something that you dont want to do but needs to be dont in order to have a functional household ie it requires obligation/responsibility motivator.  Often for things that are not seen or noticed by anyone else, there is no "praise prize". Not having these motivators they simply wont happen. They dont avoid them, they are simply not on their radar. They will even put enormous effort into getting out of something that would take less effort to do, almost like a chore is a threat to their very existence

What can you do about it? Very little, its like teaching a cat to bark, and just trying is going to frustrate you and piss off the cat. It does get to you though as you kinda feel like a slave. But living with mess left behind that you wont cover on principle trying to teach them a lesson eats you up even more.

Yet at the same time they will tell anyone else who cares to listen how much they do, and they actually believe it themselves. Thats their reality and you are not going to change it. Just have to work around it and get on with your life.

My wife hardly every cooks regular meals yet she will brag to everyone how much she likes to cook, most nights she will say "do you mind cooking dinner tonight?" in a tone that suggests she cooks every night normally but has had a big day (doing nothing) and would like a night off.>>Uncanny ability to get out of stuff while at the same time get a slice of credit for how much she imagines she is doing. Trying to point this out is just going to create escalation

[waverider]

Perhaps in some cases this is true.

A perhaps more accurate perspective is...

Assume a pwBPD is a very moral person, they decide to do something "right" and then for some reason they get "triggered".  Their emotions take control and "BPD" starts happening.

Most likely they are too "emotional" to consider their moral compass.  Once they get back closer to baseline, they will start to regain the ability to make moral decisions.

Best,

FF

My pwBPD is not a moral person she just likes to wear that mask in order to gain approval/validation. She is quite capable of throwing anyone under a bus to avert responsibility. Even if apologising after the event it is simply to hit reset and fishing for a "thats ok its not a big thing" type of absolution. The behaviour does not change or modified in the future. There is no cause and affect connection, just a responsibility diverted, a clean sheet reestablished.

If my wife "decides to do something right" it is only to impress this upon someone, if there is no one to impress she will default to compulsion.

An example of this faulty moral compass is she will make a big show of donating to charity, but has no issue claiming on a charity simply because she can spin them her need for help, even though clearly not needed. The ability to spin a convincing sob story and be believed in her mind proves she is entitled to it. Part of the entrenched mentality. No matter how I point this out she can't see it, its not even deliberate conning, she just cant see the duplicity of it.

She is getting 2 needs met, approval validation gratified, and victimhood validation. All by putting a dollar in and taking ten dollars out

[Notwendy]

Its like teaching a cat to bark, and just trying is going to frustrate you and piss off the cat.

WW - your posts always hit the nail right on the head.

[PeteWitsend]

I just don't think I can think of an adult this way. I can give a kid a pass, but not an adult. To me an adult is a bad person if they are cruel, unappreciative, lazy, don't feel empathy, selfish ?

The more I learn about bpd the more I think that pwBPD just have deficient (inferior maybe?) moral centers compared to the average person. I'm sorry to say that but its how I feel.

I'd never willingly let another one into my life.

This is an interesting question.  Not to stray too far off topic, but I've read there is very much a nature/nurture issue behind BPD, as in there is a genetic link, but also the effects of childhood and early adulthood trauma that play a role in creating it. 

Just spitballing here... but I imagine persons who's cause for BPD is mainly genetic, but otherwise had the foundations there for a happy childhood and parents (or at least some adult role models) who modeled moral conduct may have moral centers, but struggle to manage their emotions consistently with that moral center.

On the other hand, those who develop BPD as a result of childhood trauma, abandonment, or other abuse may not have a "moral center" and may develop very vindictive and malevolent means of protecting themselves from a world they perceive as uniformly hostile. 

There is definitely a spectrum here, if you compare stories.  They run from "difficult to get along with, but endearing in some way" to complete monsters rife with substance abuse, infidelity, physical abuse, etc.   I would not be surprised to learn that on the more "mild" end, the cause was mainly genetic, and on the other end, more environmental.

[PeteWitsend]

I think evading responsibilities is common with pwBPD. Whether it’s through a feeling of victimhood or a narcissistic sense of entitlement, who knows?

I agree with @fisher101... probably both.

BPDxw definitely had inferiority complex issues due to growing up poor in a poor country.  She seemed to view cleaning as weakness and a sign of poverty, as in cooking and cleaning was "work you paid poor people to do," and she avoided it as much as possible... even if it meant she lived in filth.  I did more than my share of housework, especially considering for the first several years of marriage I was the sole breadwinner, but I would not clean her car, with the result that it was completely disgusting... melted candy in the carpets, everything sticky, hair all over, ugh... but I digress... there was definitely this aversion to cleanliness that stemmed from a sense of victimhood.

On the other hand, she was an only child, and her parents really poured what resources they did have into ensuring she got into good schools (which was entirely due to bribery in her country) and pushed this idea on her that she was destined for greatness.  She also told me her parents did all the cooking and cleaning around the house and she never had to help.  It explained a lot.  They really created a monster... she was abandoned with relatives for the first several years of her life, and possibly abused during that time, and then later on when her parents returned to her life spoiled her as much as they could, and fostered a sense of entitlement... maybe out of guilt.  I don't know.