Chores and Housework

[fisher101]

How do I get her to contribute her fair share? I feel like I do everything. All cooking and cleaning. All Pet care. All repairs and maintenance. I get up everyday and make both of our lunches get coffee ready and everything else. I do all outside work. Sometimes she does laundry but that is getting less frequent.

When I ask for help it triggers her and she stonewalls. As if I'm the bad one.

If she is not going to contribute labor (I'm sorry but I think marriage is equally about division of labor as it is love) then why should we get equal proceeds from the marriage. If she doesn't want to do anything I feel I should get to make most of the decisions, including what disposable income is spent on and all major decision.

Tire of being a butler.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[mitten]

I feel your pain and I don't have any answers for you since I'm going through the same dilemma!  My favorite part is that my uBPDw thinks she does EVERYTHING around the house and I do NOTHING.  Almost comical, but mostly irritating. 

[fisher101]

I feel your pain and I don't have any answers for you since I'm going through the same dilemma!  My favorite part is that my uBPDw thinks she does EVERYTHING around the house and I do NOTHING.  Almost comical, but mostly irritating. 

Is it bpd or just laziness?

[MobyCloud]

Is it bpd or just laziness?

Would you describe her as (a) being appreciative or (b) not being appreciative of your hard work?

[fisher101]

Would you describe her as (a) being appreciative or (b) not being appreciative of your hard work?

Sometimes she is appreciative. She will say "thanks for doing everything." But honestly at this point the thank you means nothing. I feel like a servant, or worse. If I ask for help she bolts for the bedroom and shuts down, like clockwork. I don't understand how and decent person can do behave like this.

[zondolit]

This all sounds very familiar. I imagine workload sharing is an issue for most couples, but the BPD element makes it all the harder: a conversation about scheduling or dishwashing, say, appears straightforward and unemotional for me but for my husband is fraught with negative emotion, his self-image, shame, fear, etc.

My husband and I were somewhat successful at working with a marriage therapist to come to agreements on equal sharing of some aspects like school drop-off and pick-up and weekday dinners. In our case, it requires counting and keeping track, which I'd always heard was detrimental to a relationship. Without the therapist, I'm not sure we'd have been able to arrive at this on our own. Without the counting to keep to our agreement, I'm sure the load would slowly creep to me.

My husband not infrequently wants to break the arrangement when "important things come up" and he expects me to help him out. The therapist told me to be flexible if I am able but only agree to trades. So if my husband says, "I really need you to take the kids to school on Tuesday [his day to take them]," I'll say "okay, I can do that if you take them on Friday [my day]." I get accused of being "contractual" for this, but have learned to live with this.

The therapist also encouraged me to give lots of positive feedback to my husband like, "Thanks! Because you picked up the kids today I was able to go on a walk after work and that was just what I needed!"  

[fisher101]

This all sounds very familiar. I imagine workload sharing is an issue for most couples, but the BPD element makes it all the harder: a conversation about scheduling or dishwashing, say, appears straightforward and unemotional for me but for my husband is fraught with negative emotion, his self-image, shame, fear, etc.

My husband and I were somewhat successful at working with a marriage therapist to come to agreements on equal sharing of some aspects like school drop-off and pick-up and weekday dinners. In our case, it requires counting and keeping track, which I'd always heard was detrimental to a relationship. Without the therapist, I'm not sure we'd have been able to arrive at this on our own. Without the counting to keep to our agreement, I'm sure the load would slowly creep to me.

My husband not infrequently wants to break the arrangement when "important things come up" and he expects me to help him out. The therapist told me to be flexible if I am able but only agree to trades. So if my husband says, "I really need you to take the kids to school on Tuesday [his day to take them]," I'll say "okay, I can do that if you take them on Friday [my day]." I get accused of being "contractual" for this, but have learned to live with this.

The therapist also encouraged me to give lots of positive feedback to my husband like, "Thanks! Because you picked up the kids today I was able to go on a walk after work and that was just what I needed!"  

How do you avoid resentment? I'm just a ball of resentment. Truth is I don't wanna do any of this stuff either, but somebody has to do it. I consider this behavior to be very selfish. Must be nice.

[MobyCloud]

How do you avoid resentment? I'm just a ball of resentment. Truth is I don't wanna do any of this stuff either, but somebody has to do it. I consider this behavior to be very selfish. Must be nice.

I think if you’re going to get resentful — is it possible these chores are just a validation of an underlying issue in your relationship where you feel the emotional side of things are handled with the same approach?  I think the therapist route may be beneficial. Is it really about the chores or your broader “life?”

[Firsttimefather]

I feel for you. I am very sorry you are going through this. I too do all these things, receive  little to nothing in return. Told me gifting is ‘overly tried and shallow’ henceforth why I don’t receive any gifts. Hates the flowers I gave etc. However I do believe a lot of this is just dichotomous thinking etc. Anyway, I am responding as I am curious of like myself you signed on as ‘caretaker’? We do this don’t we? Codependency may also be part of it idk. I’m having a ‘row’ of you will with my partner right now. Oh the rollercoaster and dramatic mess that was made. I finally ate crow tonight and said ‘alright mercy, it’s all my fault.yell, tell me off whatever you need to do just please let us move forward toward peace’ in truth I’m pissed as I don’t get to do my routine: make lunches, dinner, etc… I doubt I’m helping you much just I have learned not to expect it. I know she loves me and does care and appreciated gifts, etc. It’s just par for the course when choosing a relationship with a borderline I believe. We have to love ourselves no matter what and in tending to that job we do ourselves a great service. In one month since I came back after our first actual ‘break’ she is : pregnant, not pregnant, didn’t take the out of state job, took the out of state job, got some cosmetic surgery thing she didn’t need as she is very beautiful, lied about it , gaslighted, coerced, manipulated, etc, etc..honestly I wish I was just complaining about how ungrateful she was being.. please don’t misunderstand what I mean by this. Lack of acknowledgment sucks I know my friend. I don’t know your story but I know I signed up for this mess which led me to this place to commiserate with the rest of us who signed up for this…. Again, I doubt I helped but love yourself first and foremost. I’ll probably be making my ‘toddler/adult child’ their lunch tomorrow. I’ll be thinking of you. Hang in there…
( I do love my Bpd gf very much. I always forgive her as I know she does love me. Just has a real messed up inability to express it over her disgust for herself)

[who_knows11]

How do I get her to contribute her fair share? I feel like I do everything. All cooking and cleaning. All Pet care. All repairs and maintenance. I get up everyday and make both of our lunches get coffee ready and everything else. I do all outside work. Sometimes she does laundry but that is getting less frequent.

When I ask for help it triggers her and she stonewalls. As if I'm the bad one.

If she is not going to contribute labor (I'm sorry but I think marriage is equally about division of labor as it is love) then why should we get equal proceeds from the marriage. If she doesn't want to do anything I feel I should get to make most of the decisions, including what disposable income is spent on and all major decision.

Tire of being a butler.

This is crazy because I have, what I feel is, the exact opposite issue.  We had a major fight last night about this very thing.  She claims that she is the only one who gets things done and I do nothing except, get this, go to work to get a paycheck and take the kids to and from pre-school and daycare.  She then asked me to tell her what else I do to contribute to the marriage.  I had finally reached a breaking point, sort of.  I tried some of the techniques mentioned on this site to absolutely no avail.  She took them as admission of guilt in everything she is feeling.  In this particular case I restated the question so she would know I was listening.  Then I answered by saying, right now, there really isn't anything else that I do.  Then I asked if I could say how I feel about it.  I continued with stating that I feel like I only have 35-40 min a day to work on anything that needs to be done at home.  (The rest of what I'm about to say I couldn't work up the courage to say to her because I knew she would take to mean something completely different that what I was actually meaning just like she did with this one statement that I did make) That 35-40 min comes between getting off work and picking up the kids.  No one will ever guess what she took that to mean! (sarcasm) Apparently that meant I was unhappy that I only have 30 min a day to myself and I feel that what I have to do for the kids is too much on me.  Those words were never even in my thoughts.  The truth is if I don't handle the kids then she will complain about how she never has anytime for herself.  She will completely self-destruct from being overwhelmed about dealing with the kids.  And I'm talking about while we are in the same room.  She isn't even watching them on her own.  I avoid having to ask her to watch the kids on her own because I know it'll overwhelm her and I'll hear her complain about having to do it for weeks.  As a result of doing this though I am unable to do things around the house and she in turn complains about that as well.  Last saturday I spent the whole day from 8 until 4:30 upstairs in the playroom with the kids while she laid on the couch to rest the entire time.  If that is what she wants to do I have zero problem with it.  I literally complain about nothing to her, ever.  But if me or one of the boys dare come out of that room we aren't respecting the fact that she is tired and needs to rest and she gets mad about that.  Heaven forbid she do her resting in the bedroom where we can still live our lives while she is doing her thing.  Apparently this turned into a rant for me, my apologies.  I just found it interesting that we can have completely opposite problems stemming from the exact same thing.

[T0M]

How do I get her to contribute her fair share? I feel like I do everything. All cooking and cleaning. All Pet care. All repairs and maintenance. I get up everyday and make both of our lunches get coffee ready and everything else. I do all outside work. Sometimes she does laundry but that is getting less frequent.

When I ask for help it triggers her and she stonewalls. As if I'm the bad one.

If she is not going to contribute labor (I'm sorry but I think marriage is equally about division of labor as it is love) then why should we get equal proceeds from the marriage. If she doesn't want to do anything I feel I should get to make most of the decisions, including what disposable income is spent on and all major decision.

Tire of being a butler.

Hmmm. I don't relate. My GF actually overcompensates on doing chores when she is in my house. I sometimes have to say she needs to stop. As if she has no other way of proving her love, other than keeping my house clean. Afterwards she does complains that she did not understand why she did it, and that she could have used the time to clean her own house.

[fisher101]

This is crazy because I have, what I feel is, the exact opposite issue.  We had a major fight last night about this very thing.  She claims that she is the only one who gets things done and I do nothing except, get this, go to work to get a paycheck and take the kids to and from pre-school and daycare.  She then asked me to tell her what else I do to contribute to the marriage.  I had finally reached a breaking point, sort of.  I tried some of the techniques mentioned on this site to absolutely no avail.  She took them as admission of guilt in everything she is feeling.  In this particular case I restated the question so she would know I was listening.  Then I answered by saying, right now, there really isn't anything else that I do.  Then I asked if I could say how I feel about it.  I continued with stating that I feel like I only have 35-40 min a day to work on anything that needs to be done at home.  (The rest of what I'm about to say I couldn't work up the courage to say to her because I knew she would take to mean something completely different that what I was actually meaning just like she did with this one statement that I did make) That 35-40 min comes between getting off work and picking up the kids.  No one will ever guess what she took that to mean! (sarcasm) Apparently that meant I was unhappy that I only have 30 min a day to myself and I feel that what I have to do for the kids is too much on me.  Those words were never even in my thoughts.  The truth is if I don't handle the kids then she will complain about how she never has anytime for herself.  She will completely self-destruct from being overwhelmed about dealing with the kids.  And I'm talking about while we are in the same room.  She isn't even watching them on her own.  I avoid having to ask her to watch the kids on her own because I know it'll overwhelm her and I'll hear her complain about having to do it for weeks.  As a result of doing this though I am unable to do things around the house and she in turn complains about that as well.  Last saturday I spent the whole day from 8 until 4:30 upstairs in the playroom with the kids while she laid on the couch to rest the entire time.  If that is what she wants to do I have zero problem with it.  I literally complain about nothing to her, ever.  But if me or one of the boys dare come out of that room we aren't respecting the fact that she is tired and needs to rest and she gets mad about that.  Heaven forbid she do her resting in the bedroom where we can still live our lives while she is doing her thing.  Apparently this turned into a rant for me, my apologies.  I just found it interesting that we can have completely opposite problems stemming from the exact same thing.

It's good to vent don't apologize. My whole post was a vent. My reply to her in this situation would be "they are your kids too, you need to watch them on your own sometimes." I'm not the most flexible in these situations. Biggest thing you'll see with me is I'm not interested in why she doesn't help out. I just want to get her to do it.

[kells76]

How do I get her to contribute her fair share? I feel like I do everything. All cooking and cleaning. All Pet care. All repairs and maintenance. I get up everyday and make both of our lunches get coffee ready and everything else. I do all outside work. Sometimes she does laundry but that is getting less frequent.

Truth is I don't wanna do any of this stuff either, but somebody has to do it.

Important topic to bring up, fisher101.

I think I see you recognizing that you feel some... resentment? about how things are divided right now. Is that accurate? And a sense of "if I don't do it, it won't get done"?

"Making"/"getting" a pwBPD to do something is a challenge (understatement of the year). If any of us had figured that out, we wouldn't be here.

So we can't "make" them "do their fair share". OK.

Does it then follow that we *have to* do "their stuff" for them?

...

As I read your list of what you do, and I imagine you started doing much of it out of love, I see opportunities for you to "hand back" to her stuff that can be hers.

I probably wouldn't "hand back" everything that ought to be hers, at once. If it were me, I'd start with *one* area, and instead of announcing "I'm not doing X for you any more, so you HAVE TO DO IT" -- I'd approach it a little more obliquely.

Let's take lunch, for example.

My guess is, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you make her lunch too, perhaps out of love, and perhaps also out of efficiency -- like, you already have the lunch stuff out, so you may as well make hers too?

What if that was the area in which you started to not take on more than your own stuff?

And what if it was ultimately *more* loving to your W, to allow her an area in her life to step up and take responsibility for herself?

It might look like:

"Babe, just wanted you to know that today I am able to make my lunch... Do you want me to leave the stuff out for you to make yours, or do you want me to put it away?" (again, just an idea of not telling her what to do, more obliquely announcing YOUR choices).

It might also look like:

"Hey hon, I'm in a rush this morning... I think I remember seeing some leftovers in the fridge that you can pack for your lunch..."

...

To me, this could be a win-win. If she's truly incapable of making her own lunch, then this new approach will reveal that, and you will know you have some bigger problems in your life than you thought. An adult who can't make lunch has serious challenges.

If she is capable of making her own lunch, though, then by you calmly stepping back from that task, you are essentially telegraphing to her that you believe she is a capable woman. When we stop "doing the work" for pwBPD, there is potential for things to go better as we allow them to solve their own problems in life. Much conflict in BPD relationships comes from one partner "overfunctioning" for the other. One partner feels resentment at taking on more than their fair share, and the other BPD partner gets tacit messages of "you can't do it".

Can we let them "fail" a few times as they learn to take responsibility in one area of life? Important question, and why I'm suggesting starting with her dealing with her own lunch (a safer scale on which to practice) versus "doing first aid" or something with bigger consequences.

Curious to hear your thoughts on passing back some tasks to her, one at a time, starting with smaller ones, and letting her own the outcomes.

[who_knows11]

It's good to vent don't apologize. My whole post was a vent. My reply to her in this situation would be "they are your kids too, you need to watch them on your own sometimes." I'm not the most flexible in these situations. Biggest thing you'll see with me is I'm not interested in why she doesn't help out. I just want to get her to do it.

Isn't that the whole dilemma with BPD though? Reality vs emotion?  The problem is not that she can't watch them on her own, she is perfectly capable, and does so when I need her to.  The problem is her perception of the situation.  She will have a two-fold complaint about it.  One, that she did it so that I could do something else, resulting in me having time for myself at her expense. Second, how hard is for her because of having to constantly stay right on top of them, a result of her being a helicopter parent.  To make a suggestion that she change the way she parents in order to make it easier to handle is to dismiss her feelings about how she wants to parent.  Fine, no issue with that, except that if you are choosing to parent the way you want to then don't complain about the way you parent.  It's your choice, do it or don't.  No one gets to have their cake and eat it too.  But that's BPD isn't it.  My largest hurdle right now is that BPD does not remove a person's accountability for their actions nor their responsibility for their future.  I could be wrong, but I feel that last statement is the connection in both of our mindsets

[Cat Familiar]

The more you do for them, the less they will do for themselves. 

Equal participation in chores was a major bone of contention in my relationship. My husband is retired and spends all day pursuing his own interests. When he does a task, like taking garbage to the dump, it’s monumental because of the BPD black and white thinking. “I spent all day going to the dump,” when in fact, it was only an hour, more or less.

Some years ago, the only things he did were lawn mowing, pool maintenance, and going to the dump every three weeks or so. But in his mind, he was constantly working.

Meanwhile I was taking care of the animals (horses, goats, cats) which was fine, because having them is my choice; repairing things in the house and on the property (he knows nothing about carpentry, electrical, plumbing); cleaning said house and property; taking care of gardens and orchard; cooking meals.

After hours fixing a water leak or a broken fence line, I’d come into the house, dirty head to toe, and he’d ask me, “What’s for dinner?”

Resent? I’d be f*ing furious! As if he couldn’t even lend a helping hand or think about making something himself! And what I cooked for him was often unappreciated because it was vegetarian. “I need real food,” I remember him saying.   

Problem solved sometime later when we started getting meal kits. I’ve been a vegetarian most of my life, other than eating fish occasionally, but I was willing to eat some meat if it was organic. But I know nothing about cooking meat.

So we started getting these organic meal kits. Soon he started taking over the cooking because I was clueless about cooking the meat, which was fine with me. (I really wasn’t that clueless.)

Over time it evolved to him doing dinner preparation six nights and week, and me doing all the cleanup. I cook one night a week and he “cleans” to some extent.

He makes a huge mess when he cooks. I don’t. However it’s worthwhile for me to do the cleaning on two fronts: I get alone time to listen to podcasts and I’m very particular about keeping things cleaned up to my standards.

Over time, he’s become proud of how well he cooks, and he really does a good job. So it’s given him some self worth and he has been willing to tackle other tasks that he self initiates.

WIN/WIN. 

[fisher101]

This all sounds very familiar. I imagine workload sharing is an issue for most couples, but the BPD element makes it all the harder: a conversation about scheduling or dishwashing, say, appears straightforward and unemotional for me but for my husband is fraught with negative emotion, his self-image, shame, fear, etc.

My husband and I were somewhat successful at working with a marriage therapist to come to agreements on equal sharing of some aspects like school drop-off and pick-up and weekday dinners. In our case, it requires counting and keeping track, which I'd always heard was detrimental to a relationship. Without the therapist, I'm not sure we'd have been able to arrive at this on our own. Without the counting to keep to our agreement, I'm sure the load would slowly creep to me.

My husband not infrequently wants to break the arrangement when "important things come up" and he expects me to help him out. The therapist told me to be flexible if I am able but only agree to trades. So if my husband says, "I really need you to take the kids to school on Tuesday [his day to take them]," I'll say "okay, I can do that if you take them on Friday [my day]." I get accused of being "contractual" for this, but have learned to live with this.

The therapist also encouraged me to give lots of positive feedback to my husband like, "Thanks! Because you picked up the kids today I was able to go on a walk after work and that was just what I needed!"  

I think in this case flexibility is key as long as you don't let the routing get altered for too long. I personally have a hard time giving feedback like that to other adults for things that I feel they should do anyway.

[fisher101]

The more you do for them, the less they will do for themselves. 

Equal participation in chores was a major bone of contention in my relationship. My husband is retired and spends all day pursuing his own interests. When he does a task, like taking garbage to the dump, it’s monumental because of the BPD black and white thinking. “I spent all day going to the dump,” when in fact, it was only an hour, more or less.

Some years ago, the only things he did were lawn mowing, pool maintenance, and going to the dump every three weeks or so. But in his mind, he was constantly working.

Meanwhile I was taking care of the animals (horses, goats, cats) which was fine, because having them is my choice; repairing things in the house and on the property (he knows nothing about carpentry, electrical, plumbing); cleaning said house and property; taking care of gardens and orchard; cooking meals.

After hours fixing a water leak or a broken fence line, I’d come into the house, dirty head to toe, and he’d ask me, “What’s for dinner?”

Resent? I’d be f*ing furious! As if he couldn’t even lend a helping hand or think about making something himself! And what I cooked for him was often unappreciated because it was vegetarian. “I need real food,” I remember him saying.   

Problem solved sometime later when we started getting meal kits. I’ve been a vegetarian most of my life, other than eating fish occasionally, but I was willing to eat some meat if it was organic. But I know nothing about cooking meat.

So we started getting these organic meal kits. Soon he started taking over the cooking because I was clueless about cooking the meat, which was fine with me. (I really wasn’t that clueless.)

Over time it evolved to him doing dinner preparation six nights and week, and me doing all the cleanup. I cook one night a week and he “cleans” to some extent.

He makes a huge mess when he cooks. I don’t. However it’s worthwhile for me to do the cleaning on two fronts: I get alone time to listen to podcasts and I’m very particular about keeping things cleaned up to my standards.

Over time, he’s become proud of how well he cooks, and he really does a good job. So it’s given him some self worth and he has been willing to tackle other tasks that he self initiates.

WIN/WIN. 

Like your husband I gotta have meat and I'm super messy. But I'm usually cleaning it up myself 9 time outta 10 so it doesn't matter. Seem like in your case and his you guys want things done a certain way so your arrangement seems to work.

In our case it's like I drop a nuclear bomb if I mention that I feel she isn't doing her fair share. So I keep quiet until I explode. I feel like I'm being taken advantage of here. I grew up in a family where my mom would say things like "no work no eat" and she more or less meant it so it's hard for me to accept someone willfully using me like this.

The more I think about, I have this recurring thought that maybe, just maybe pwBPD are just not great people in most cases. I'm becoming convinced that she just doesn't feel guilt or empathy, just shame, but in a selfish way where she is worried that other people will look down her. I really doubt whether she ever feels bad about anything she does to others.

[fisher101]

Isn't that the whole dilemma with BPD though? Reality vs emotion?  The problem is not that she can't watch them on her own, she is perfectly capable, and does so when I need her to.  The problem is her perception of the situation.  She will have a two-fold complaint about it.  One, that she did it so that I could do something else, resulting in me having time for myself at her expense. Second, how hard is for her because of having to constantly stay right on top of them, a result of her being a helicopter parent.  To make a suggestion that she change the way she parents in order to make it easier to handle is to dismiss her feelings about how she wants to parent.  Fine, no issue with that, except that if you are choosing to parent the way you want to then don't complain about the way you parent.  It's your choice, do it or don't.  No one gets to have their cake and eat it too.  But that's BPD isn't it.  My largest hurdle right now is that BPD does not remove a person's accountability for their actions nor their responsibility for their future.  I could be wrong, but I feel that last statement is the connection in both of our mindsets

I see. Well hey mine can complain all she wants if she'd just do something.

There is an overriding them that I see on here that pwBPD aren't really responsible/accountable because they can't help it. I disagree with with this.

[fisher101]

Important topic to bring up, fisher101.

I think I see you recognizing that you feel some... resentment? about how things are divided right now. Is that accurate? And a sense of "if I don't do it, it won't get done"?

"Making"/"getting" a pwBPD to do something is a challenge (understatement of the year). If any of us had figured that out, we wouldn't be here.

So we can't "make" them "do their fair share". OK.

Does it then follow that we *have to* do "their stuff" for them?

...

As I read your list of what you do, and I imagine you started doing much of it out of love, I see opportunities for you to "hand back" to her stuff that can be hers.

I probably wouldn't "hand back" everything that ought to be hers, at once. If it were me, I'd start with *one* area, and instead of announcing "I'm not doing X for you any more, so you HAVE TO DO IT" -- I'd approach it a little more obliquely.

Let's take lunch, for example.

My guess is, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you make her lunch too, perhaps out of love, and perhaps also out of efficiency -- like, you already have the lunch stuff out, so you may as well make hers too?

What if that was the area in which you started to not take on more than your own stuff?

And what if it was ultimately *more* loving to your W, to allow her an area in her life to step up and take responsibility for herself?

It might look like:

"Babe, just wanted you to know that today I am able to make my lunch... Do you want me to leave the stuff out for you to make yours, or do you want me to put it away?" (again, just an idea of not telling her what to do, more obliquely announcing YOUR choices).

It might also look like:

"Hey hon, I'm in a rush this morning... I think I remember seeing some leftovers in the fridge that you can pack for your lunch..."

...

To me, this could be a win-win. If she's truly incapable of making her own lunch, then this new approach will reveal that, and you will know you have some bigger problems in your life than you thought. An adult who can't make lunch has serious challenges.

If she is capable of making her own lunch, though, then by you calmly stepping back from that task, you are essentially telegraphing to her that you believe she is a capable woman. When we stop "doing the work" for pwBPD, there is potential for things to go better as we allow them to solve their own problems in life. Much conflict in BPD relationships comes from one partner "overfunctioning" for the other. One partner feels resentment at taking on more than their fair share, and the other BPD partner gets tacit messages of "you can't do it".

Can we let them "fail" a few times as they learn to take responsibility in one area of life? Important question, and why I'm suggesting starting with her dealing with her own lunch (a safer scale on which to practice) versus "doing first aid" or something with bigger consequences.

Curious to hear your thoughts on passing back some tasks to her, one at a time, starting with smaller ones, and letting her own the outcomes.

Might not be a bad idea.

She is capable but choses not to make her own lunch. I'm not sure why I do it...possibly at this point it is to prevent accusations that I only think of myself and that I'm selfish.

Another example. We got a cat a while back. She wanted it, I didn't really want the cat. But quickly stopped emptying litter boxes until it smelled like you know what in here. So now I do it. In this way I feel I have to do "her stuff" or we'll have sanitation issues. I think the one who wanted the cat should be doing this.

Another angle...I'm what you'd call, for better or worse, a transactional person. So I look at this situation, one-sided as it is, as if there is a debt accruing..and it'll never be even until I get as long of a break from everything as she's had.

At this point though I'd just settle for continuing to do most of the work, but "getting" the most out of everything (being in charge I guess you could call it). I mean I feel that equity has been earned.

[zondolit]

How do you avoid resentment? I'm just a ball of resentment.

I surely know all about resentment! It is corrosive. What I'm trying to do now is listen to myself--when I start sensing resentment building in me it is a sign I need to so something differently (even if it makes my husband upset).

Example from this morning: My husband has been asking to use my office for his own work when I'm not there. My natural tendency is to want to oblige and help him out, but when I look more closely I see that I will come to resent this. (My office is my own space and at times a refuge from my husband. I keep my BDP books there. Plus I highly doubt my employer would want someone else using my office, which is not a home office.) So I told my husband no. Of course, he fights back on this, but I (so far!) remain calm and steady and repeat, "I'm sorry, but I don't feel comfortable with you using my office."

fisher101, you mention wanting the power to make decisions. I wonder if this is more about shared (or not shared) decision-making more than home workload?

[fisher101]

I surely know all about resentment! It is corrosive. What I'm trying to do now is listen to myself--when I start sensing resentment building in me it is a sign I need to so something differently (even if it makes my husband upset).

Example from this morning: My husband has been asking to use my office for his own work when I'm not there. My natural tendency is to want to oblige and help him out, but when I look more closely I see that I will come to resent this. (My office is my own space and at times a refuge from my husband. I keep my BDP books there. Plus I highly doubt my employer would want someone else using my office, which is not a home office.) So I told my husband no. Of course, he fights back on this, but I (so far!) remain calm and steady and repeat, "I'm sorry, but I don't feel comfortable with you using my office."

fisher101, you mention wanting the power to make decisions. I wonder if this is more about shared (or not shared) decision-making more than home workload?

I'd say "no" in your case too. You're reasoning is sound.

For me it is really about work and fairness. I know for some people it isn't really about what they say it is about. But for me it is.

As far as the decisions go, I feel like if I'm doing 100% of the work at home, in the relationship, it is fair if I get a larger say in large and small things. If I gotta cook everyday I'm gonna cook what I want. She wants a garden, I dont' because I'll be stuck taking care of it, so I think I should be able to say "no" without push back. If my days are consumed with doing all the work from 6am to bedtime why should the purposefully non-contributing person get as much of a say. If I gotta do it all I want it my way.

She'd rather give gifts. I dont' want them and to me it's a shallow way to show you care. I've stated my position on it many times.

[Cat Familiar]

There is an overriding them that I see on here that pwBPD aren't really responsible/accountable because they can't help it. I disagree with with this.

I think there’s a level of nuance to unpack here. I agree that pwBPD are often not very responsible or accountable in their personal relationships, though they may exhibit these qualities at their workplace.

The difference? At work they have to, or else they get fired. Though if you read enough accounts here, you’ll find that many jump from job to job, just as they do with relationships.

What if you quit doing one of these tasks that you’ve gotten stuck with? Pick something that won’t be too onerous if you no longer do it. How about making her lunch? You could start by changing your lunch plans and buying yourself lunch.

There’s something to be said for “going on strike” without verbally mentioning it. I remember doing that years ago when I had roommates. I quit washing their dishes. It was gross, but eventually they caught on and started being responsible for themselves.

I'm becoming convinced that she just doesn't feel guilt or empathy, just shame, but in a selfish way where she is worried that other people will look down her. I really doubt whether she ever feels bad about anything she does to others.

I think you are right; she probably doesn’t feel guilt or empathy, just shame. This goes back to the previous issue addressed above about responsibility and accountability.

It seems that pwBPD have missed at an early age some life lessons that most of us learned when we were very young. It’s not to give them a free pass. After all brains are malleable and we can make up for deficits, and it is possible they can learn.

But what you’re experiencing about her not being helpful, accountable, responsible, is due to not having these strategies imprinted when she was very young. It’s not an excuse, it’s just what is.

Something that I remember as an example of this was when I was with my ex husband and we had visitors who had traveled a distance to see us. We greeted them, then he walked into the kitchen (we had an open living room/kitchen) and proceeded to make himself a sandwich and eat it, without offering them anything.

I had been helping them with their bags, so only caught the tail end of that, but was horrified. How could he not think to offer them something?

It just didn’t occur to him. It’s stunning to think that these people have missed some of the very elementary life skills in their development, but there you have it.

And it sucks to be their partners and think we need to teach them things they should have learned as kindergartners. And that presents a whole can of worms too. We entered this relationship as equals, not as remedial therapists.

So, if you’re feeling resentment and I completely understand why, stop doing some of the things you’re resentful about. She will either do them or not. Best to try with something that won’t irritate you too much.

[zondolit]

If I gotta cook everyday I'm gonna cook what I want. She wants a garden, I dont' because I'll be stuck taking care of it, so I think I should be able to say "no" without push back.

YES! You should cook what you want and not garden if you don't want to. (She can garden if she wants to.)

However, in my experience, the push back is going to happen with any change, especially those in which we assert our own needs and desires.

You should not be working all day every day. What do you like to do for fun or relaxation? Do it regularly. I started taking this seriously about half a year ago and I will never go back to the all work, all sacrifice, and. . .all resentment life. (And there will likely be push back from her for taking care of yourself. Do it anyway.)

[fisher101]

I think there’s a level of nuance to unpack here. I agree that pwBPD are often not very responsible or accountable in their personal relationships, though they may exhibit these qualities at their workplace.

The difference? At work they have to, or else they get fired. Though if you read enough accounts here, you’ll find that many jump from job to job, just as they do with relationships.

What if you quit doing one of these tasks that you’ve gotten stuck with? Pick something that won’t be too onerous if you no longer do it. How about making her lunch? You could start by changing your lunch plans and buying yourself lunch.

There’s something to be said for “going on strike” without verbally mentioning it. I remember doing that years ago when I had roommates. I quit washing their dishes. It was gross, but eventually they caught on and started being responsible for themselves.

I think you are right; she probably doesn’t feel guilt or empathy, just shame. This goes back to the previous issue addressed above about responsibility and accountability.

It seems that pwBPD have missed at an early age some life lessons that most of us learned when we were very young. It’s not to give them a free pass. After all brains are malleable and we can make up for deficits, and it is possible they can learn.

But what you’re experiencing about her not being helpful, accountable, responsible, is due to not having these strategies imprinted when she was very young. It’s not an excuse, it’s just what is.

Something that I remember as an example of this was when I was with my ex husband and we had visitors who had traveled a distance to see us. We greeted them, then he walked into the kitchen (we had an open living room/kitchen) and proceeded to make himself a sandwich and eat it, without offering them anything.

I had been helping them with their bags, so only caught the tail end of that, but was horrified. How could he not think to offer them something?

It just didn’t occur to him. It’s stunning to think that these people have missed some of the very elementary life skills in their development, but there you have it.

And it sucks to be their partners and think we need to teach them things they should have learned as kindergartners. And that presents a whole can of worms too. We entered this relationship as equals, not as remedial therapists.

So, if you’re feeling resentment and I completely understand why, stop doing some of the things you’re resentful about. She will either do them or not. Best to try with something that won’t irritate you too much.

Thank you.

So on the lunch thing. If I stop making it I will be accused of "never thinking about her". An example: One day I made her lunch but she got mad because I didn't carry it to the car for her. I said "well I made it". Her reply? A very rude "well thank you!" So if I don't make she will then through some snacks in a bag, and sense she can't get ready for work in time she'll make us late (we ride together most days).

On the shame/empathy thing. Do you feel that people who can't don't feel empathy are "bad people". You've answer many questions on here for me and use your husband as an example. Based on things you've told me, he seems to show empathy at some points so I don't know that this issue is universal.

My wife is actually great with guests though, go figure.

[kells76]

So, if you’re feeling resentment and I completely understand why, stop doing some of the things you’re resentful about. She will either do them or not. Best to try with something that won’t irritate you too much.

YES! You should cook what you want and not garden if you don't want to. (She can garden if she wants to.)

Yes, agreed.

If she wants a garden, why should you do any of it for her? Your stance could be something like "babe, I support all your efforts to personally create a garden, I hope it goes well for you". If your value is you do not want to, then don't. I'm assuming you don't have any other issues around the garden (space, safety, whatever) besides "her making you do stuff for it". So don't, AND, assuming this is true, support her efforts verbally from a distance. Does she want it? She'll figure it out.

You will have to develop a thick skin about her attitude towards you and the garden. She may say all kinds of words about how "you are what is preventing her from having a garden". Let it go. It's not true. Above all, when you adhere to your value of "I have no issue with a garden, I am just choosing not to participate", then my hope would be you could monitor your resentment levels and see a decrease in resentment surrounding that issue.

Same with lunch. If she wants lunch, let her figure it out. Develop a thick skin because you KNOW you aren't not making lunch for her "to purposefully bug her". She will say and do whatever she says and does, and if she is hungry and wants food she'll figure it out. Monitor your resentment levels surrounding this issue, perhaps quantify it and track it. See if making this change has an impact on your resentment.

Going back to this really quickly:

She wants a garden, I dont' because I'll be stuck taking care of it,

Why will you be stuck taking care of it... if you choose not to?

[kells76]

Just caught this:

If I stop making it I will be accused of "never thinking about her". An example: One day I made her lunch but she got mad because I didn't carry it to the car for her. I said "well I made it". Her reply? A very rude "well thank you!" So if I don't make she will then through some snacks in a bag, and sense she can't get ready for work in time she'll make us late (we ride together most days).

OK, on the accusations -- again, consider the tactic of developing a thick skin and not engaging with stuff that isn't true. Maybe a minimal "oh babe... that would feel awful to think that". Or, nothing.

if I don't make she will then through some snacks in a bag

DING DING DING she can do it!

sense she can't get ready for work in time she'll make us late (we ride together most days)

This seems like a more core issue to problemsolve -- how you can be on time to work when you carpool.

[who_knows11]

I see. Well hey mine can complain all she wants if she'd just do something.

There is an overriding them that I see on here that pwBPD aren't really responsible/accountable because they can't help it. I disagree with with this.

I disagree as well.  I understand (at least somewhat) the psychology of how they think, but I do not believe that it is the determining factor of what is ok or is not ok.

[Cat Familiar]

Like kells says, you need to develop a thick skin when she makes false claims about you with the BPD favorites *always and never*.

I seldom get the “selfish” and “don’t care” verbiage anymore. Just realized this morning that I got sucked into a conversation where he claimed I wasn’t participating in the conversation.     It never goes away,  BPD!

When accused of not caring about some insignificant matter, I might say, “You’re probably right about that.” It stops him dead in his tracks.

If accused of “never thinking about her” you might say, “That sucks.” In that way you can both be honest and give an ambiguous answer.

Sure it can up the conflict in the moment, but sometimes you have to do that, but only when you are totally prepared to keep your cool. It’s not addressing those micro aggressions that builds up resentment.

And best—if they get a response that flips the issue back on them without you getting upset. Emotional aikido!

[fisher101]

I appreciate all the advice. I'll have to work hard on the thick skin thing. It not so much that it hurts my feelings as much as I just don't want to deal with the drama. I guess it's just to keep the peace.

The ack of empathy thing is really eating at me too. I mean am I wrong in thinking that because she lacks empathy she is therefore a bad person? The thought of being with a bad person to me is horrible.

[Cat Familiar]

You’re going to deal with drama whether or not you want to. Best to turn it into a comedy. Sometimes I’m the only one laughing (silently of course, just to myself).

Maybe rather than thinking of her as a “bad person” for not having empathy, think of her as an emotional toddler. Little kids are big time narcissists, only thinking of themselves, but that doesn’t make them bad people, just uneducated in the ways of seeing the world through others’ eyes.