We broke up a week ago -- is there any hope left?

[Depression = 72% of members]

The other thing that helps, is to find one or two friends i trust, who do not judge me... .because sometimes I need someone to call, or meet up with, and that person just needs to listen, as i really am not wanting advice, since they aren't in the situation i am in... .Even if i dont call my trusted friends that much, just knowing that i can call helps me.   Also am on antidepressants, and anti anxiety med... .I use that at nite to sleep... .and if i can find moments that i am ok, maybe tomorrow those moments will be more... .I just take it one day at a time.  The 12 steps helps me too... .

And self care, i have to force myself to ramp up self care... .every week something special just for me... .you will find your way.   Keep reading and sharing here... .some days are better than others!

[juju2]

The other thing that helps, is to find one or two friends i trust, who do not judge me... .because sometimes I need someone to call, or meet up with, and that person just needs to listen, as i really am not wanting advice, since they aren't in the situation i am in... .Even if i dont call my trusted friends that much, just knowing that i can call helps me.   Also am on antidepressants, and anti anxiety med... .I use that at nite to sleep... .and if i can find moments that i am ok, maybe tomorrow those moments will be more... .I just take it one day at a time.  The 12 steps helps me too... .

And self care, i have to force myself to ramp up self care... .every week something special just for me... .you will find your way.   Keep reading and sharing here... .some days are better than others!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[alexvidaa]

Hi juju2! Thanks for coming to my post and reading my whole story. It's been a whirlwind lately.

My heart goes out to you.

I have been waiting to give his things back, and every time I believe that i have the strength to do that, i get overwhelmed.  Its been over a year, and lately, when i told him (we email) was getting a storage unit, he asked to call me, explained a lot, to me, and agreed to wait longer.   He has a serious mental illness.  I dont know which part is him and which part is his illness. 

Keep reaching out here.   There is wisdom and caring here, people who want to share, and maybe something you read each day will help... .

one thing i know for myself, is to not make any quick knee jerk reactions or actions.  This has been the hardest lesson in patience.   I go to al anon too, and that helps me.  Even if it is just for that one hour.   

hang in there!

A year? Wow! A year after breaking up and he didn't try to come back whatsoever?
I'm so glad you guys still talk and stuff like that. I feel like that makes a huge difference with stuff, even if it's not for a relationship rekindle. What is your main goal with him?

The other thing that helps, is to find one or two friends i trust, who do not judge me... .because sometimes I need someone to call, or meet up with, and that person just needs to listen, as i really am not wanting advice, since they aren't in the situation i am in... .Even if i dont call my trusted friends that much, just knowing that i can call helps me.   Also am on antidepressants, and anti anxiety med... .I use that at nite to sleep... .and if i can find moments that i am ok, maybe tomorrow those moments will be more... .I just take it one day at a time.  The 12 steps helps me too... .

And self care, i have to force myself to ramp up self care... .every week something special just for me... .you will find your way.   Keep reading and sharing here... .some days are better than others!

Honestly it's really hard to talk to any of my friends about this because they just tell me I deserve better, to just leave him, that he's treated me awful and I just should take it at face value and leave instead of analyzing it all, and the like. Even my friend with BPD told me to just let him go! It does have some truth to it, but feelings suck and complicate things and we did have such a long history. I feel like by saying I want to get back with him I'd be hard core judged, so truthfully, this forum has been a god send for me in terms of talking things out and *attempting** to make sense of things. I have about one good friend who will listen to me and tell me it's okay to feel the emotions I feel and doesn't judge, but she makes it very clear that she thinks I just need to leave him and forget him.

I've honestly just been trying to get myself back into the gym, getting Personal trainer certified so I can continue to teach some gym exercise classes, applying to grad school, and working a fun job for some side money! Since my life has basically been dropped and moved out of no where, I feel like I'm starting new back living with my parents and kind of lonely I've had to take gabapentin every night to even calm myself down. I was taking lexapro (for anxiety) and adderall (for adhd) but I've been so traumatized I've stopped taking them. So I feel you on the med stuff! Yesterday was the first day i did NOT cry and was proud of myself, but after waking up after having some sexy dreams that involved him, it left me feeling anxious literally the entire day. Makes me feel like my brain is betraying me! LOL. all I can say is day by day.

[alexvidaa]

**UPDATE**

I feel like people on here would be disappointed but here we go. I found out that he had been looking up dating apps to seek out other people and had unblocked exes from his past and even friended them back on Facebook! This, paired with the continuous silent treatment, was enough for me.

I noticed he had been extremely active on Facebook messenger in the past few days and I decided to message him. Maybe it was a bad idea but I did it. I asked him politely to  drop the silent treatment, that id be dropping his stuff off, and that I was surprised he was already seeking others out. He immediately rejected the fact that he was seeking other people out and stated that it was a lie, whoever told me. I asked why he didn’t respond to my text about my concern for our friends and he told me that he didn’t deal well with emotional manipulation and that I was using that to get him to talk. Can you imagine that? ME? Being accused of emotional manipulation by the all mighty emotional manipulation king? I told him that I was seriously concerned about them and thought he’d like to know. In terms of the stuff, he at first refused to acknowledge the stuff I wanted was even left there. It transformed from that into refusal to give my stuff back because he thought some of it was his. He then accused me of just losing my stuff! I explained I was just trying to be respectful of this whole process but if course he wasn’t having it. He kept telling me he would not meet me to exchange belongings because he wanted me out of his life forever and never wanted to see me again. He proceeded to block me on fb messenger after he launched some more rude comments and unreasonable logic, blocked me on whatsapp, and then unfollowed my pets Instagram accounts that we created.

I then texted him via my email and he told me to burn all of his stuff. He still refused to give my stuff back which in my perspective is ridiculous.

I know some of you on here could wait forever for people like this. But the thing is this: if they are not getting help, it’s an endless cycle. My friend who has BPD gets help and works on herself. Yet she does not feel the need to push people past their limits anymore. I don’t believe ANYONE should be treating others this way. Deliberate disrespect, unreasonable, and abusive... .it’s all not okay just because they have a mental illness. Friends I think I’ve reached my limit. When it comes down to it, my boundary is respect and decency all of which he refuses to give. My BPD friend thinks this is him trying to test my limits or is being paranoid but either way, even she agrees it’s wrong. I love him with all of my heart still, I just really do not like him AT ALL right now.

[macarena]

Hey, just wanted to say I’m so sorry he is treating you like that. That’s so not fair and definitely not okay.

[alexvidaa]

Hey, just wanted to say I’m so sorry he is treating you like that. That’s so not fair and definitely not okay.

It’s definitely not okay. I don’t care if someone has a mental illness or not, it’s never an excuse to treat someone like dirt. I have anxiety and ADHD which means I have emotional dystegulation of my own (not to the level of BPD) but even in the worst times I’ve tried to make sure to not hurt anyone deliberately.

I’ll be seeing him in a less than a week to get my stuff back. If he doesn’t answer my text, it’s not my issue anymore. It’s common decency to give stuff back. I don’t wanna just show up at his door but at this point I have no other choice because he won’t even give me the time of day to talk about it maturely.

[alexvidaa]

My answers probably seem very heartless but they’re not. This has to be one of the hardest things to go through: going through a relationship with someone like this whihcnim sure you all know. I love him so much, I’m just feeling very hurt and annoyed.

[once removed]

When it comes down to it, my boundary is respect

our boundaries are tied to our values. if we arent living our values, our boundaries can get blurry.

if we dont respect someone elses walls, they will erect higher ones.

where do you want to go from here?

[alexvidaa]

our boundaries are tied to our values. if we arent living our values, our boundaries can get blurry.

if we dont respect someone elses walls, they will erect higher ones.

where do you want to go from here?

I'm worried my boundaries have been blurred this whole time. I feel like maybe I put blinders on because I love him a lot. So I allowed him to treat me with no appreciation and let him treat me like less than someone he loves.

to me, it just feels like there's no hope anymore. Him possibly looking to see other people and blocking me on everything... .it just doesn't seem like theres anything left for me to do because he's completely removed right now. I don't know if it will last forever but it surely feels like it.

I feel like I will keep getting hurt if I keep "waiting" for him. What? I'm supposed to wait for him to maybeeee come back after trying to see other people? There's no actual expectation here so if I create one in my head that he will magically get better and come back and profess his dying love and apologies to me, then I'm so scared I will be waiting forever.

My heart just really hurts. Is there any hope? I feel like this is a no win situation here, no matter what I decide to do.

[once removed]

I feel like this is a no win situation here, no matter what I decide to do.

before we can make things better, we have to stop making them worse.

it may be hard to hear, and i understand the pain youre going through, the conflicted feelings, the anxiety of feeling like things are in limbo.

i dont think its so much about waiting for him, or expecting him to magically get better. when we over pursue someone, or lash out, who wants distance, it pushes them away further. its counter to your stated goal, but since the breakup, it has been the go to coping mechanism, with the same results.

is there any hope? yes, but damage has been done, and will continue to be done if you continue to employ the same approach.

[Radcliff]

Don't ever think we'll be disappointed in you.  This is your life, and you have to live with all of the decisions.  We're out here on the Internet with only partial context.  I remember feeling the same way, worrying about folks' expectations on the board because they were putting so much effort into helping me.  Don't worry.  We're here for you no matter what, and we believe you will make the best decisions for you.

In the "reconnecting with a pwBPD" playbook, pushing contact too soon is ineffective.  You went with what felt right.  You could read that as bad or good.  You could ding yourself for being impulsive and not following the "playbook," or you could look at it as an expression of the fact that long term, you need to be able to act according to your feelings and have that still be OK in the relationship.

As our relationship experience grows, and we get practice sizing up people and relationships, we learn to trust our feelings.  When we're relatively inexperienced, we're at risk of letting our insecurities drive us, talking ourselves out of believing our feelings.  It is good that you are telling us about the many aspects of your feelings, and you are talking about what you are and are not prepared to accept in a relationship at this stage of your life.  It is important for you to continue to talk and think about your feelings and values, and to listen to yourself.  

On the bedtime anxiety issue, have you ever heard of weighted blankets?  I got one recently, and have been astonished at how effective it has been.  It has quilted pockets with small plastic beads like small pebbles in it.  Think of the nice feeling you have snuggled under heavy winter covers, and it's five times better than that.  I was having rushes of anxiety as soon as my head hit the pillow, and that blanket has been a game changer.  You can order them online.  They are a little pricey, but if I had to earn the money making minimum wage to buy one, I'd totally do it.

Does he have any things of yours that are important sentimentally?

RC

[alexvidaa]

All hope is 100% gone.

The mutual friend that I've mentioned on here was very helpful to me in figuring out what I should do in terms of the ex. He was the one who told me that my ex went around saying that he was done with the relationship 6 months ago. I met with him so many times about what was going on with the relationship when I was still in the city and he was always giving me really good advice. So I thought the same thing for over text. I noticed that one of my texts did not go through, and I suspected he might have blocked me. I wasn't 100% sure, so I tried texting him on what's app. Asking what I should do, if he thought there was any hope, if there was anyone else, etc. All things I've asked him before. But this time, he told me that because of a certain miscommunication and misunderstanding, he no longer felt comfortable being in contact with me.

I was so upset and shook. He literally turned this friend against me. Now, I had no way of knowing anything. I couldn't believe he'd slander me to someone I thought was a friend, but I suppose he took a side based off of lies he had been told. I've never done anything like this before, and I'm not proud that i even attempted this. It was in a moment of weakness and hurt and desperation for answers to the anxious and hurtful thoughts and feelings inside my head. I attempted to long on to his fb account, but it didn't work. I thought maybe I could see if he said anything to this friend on there, but oh well. I know this was not a good thing to do and it was crossing the line. I've never felt so hurt in my life though. How someone could act like they hated me so much when all I've tried to show them was love. How someone could turn on me and get everyone else to believe his lies--going from applying to jobs to buy me an engagement ring to this. People on here will probably drag me through the mud for this one. So many of my boundaries had been crossed with me and he didn't care or have remorse for it. I crossed one but it doesn't make it right.

I got a text from him in the morning telling me he had shipped all of the stuff he thought that was mine, and that if I ever tried to contact him again he would file a complaint to his university's department for harassment and that I would have to report it upon entering medical school. All of this is 100% not true because I have not harassed him, and I would not have to report something like that either way. Apparently talking to him and reaching out to his friend (who I thought was my friend too), and attempting to log in was enough for him. He told me to burn all of his stuff.

I was done as of last night after I found out he tried to turn the friend against me. I don't know and will never know what went down with that, nor what went down in his head to hate me so much. I shouldn't have tried to snoop for answers, but I guess I will live my life without questions unanswered. He's hurt me way too much to even consider him as an option anymore. At this point, there's no way he'd ever try to reach out to me again because he's painted me as the worse person ever.

I appreciate all of the support on here. I'm still heartbroken and am trying to work through this so I don't have emotional consequences of this relationship affect another relationship. I never try to do bad by anyone, and I always give myself 100% to people I love. It's really hard to believe that a devaluation process led to this, but I don't think it's something I could have lived with. It's really hard to process that I was supposed to get married to him. He was my everything. I would have given him everything and would have stuck with him even though he had these issues. this whole process, in the past two weeks, has led me to some dark and depressed places, and has made me feel somewhat insane. I don't feel healthy in my mind anymore and I think I need to get away. I cannot fathom how someone who loved you supposedly with their whole heart could be so demeaning and cruel.

I don't think I'll have any issues with him ever trying to contact me again or coming back. He's painted my black for sure and there's nothing I can do about it. And i think that's what hurts the most. I already feel bad enough as it is, and I can't take anymore mean comments coming my way.

[Fleetwood07]

Hi Alexvidaa,

I've just read your whole thread from the start to your most recent post and it's made me really want to message you - this is also my first time commenting on somebody's post, although have been reading on this forum for the last few months!

I just want to say, I'm so so sorry to hear about what you've been through. Your experience has really stood out to me because some of the things you've written about how it's made you feel and the things he's said/how he acts, I could have literally written the same thing.

It sounds horrible what you've been through and I imagine really frustrating and understandably takes a toll on your own mental health. This is the part I'm most struggling with at the moment too.

I'm sorry I'm not really offering advice in this message, I just wanted to reach out as some of the things you've written really struck home to me. I really hope you start to get the strength to move on and somehow find closure, I understand that's going to be very hard and that's something I'm almost 99% sure I'm going to have to do very shortly too. What he's last said to you about filing for a complaint if you contact him seems very hurtful and also over the top, from everything you've explained about how things played out for you guys. It was sad to read that's how it's all escalated and I'm sending you lots of love right now. You will get through this.

[Radcliff]

I am so sorry for the heartbreak.  Allow yourself plenty of time to grieve.  It's good to hear that you are committed to processing things and understanding them in order to help with future relationships.  What are you doing to take care of yourself?  Do you have friends in your hometown you can reconnect with?  Are you done with school or studying full-time or part-time?  What is going on in the rest of your life?

RC

[alexvidaa]

Hi Alexvidaa,

I just want to say, I'm so so sorry to hear about what you've been through. Your experience has really stood out to me because some of the things you've written about how it's made you feel and the things he's said/how he acts, I could have literally written the same thing.

It sounds horrible what you've been through and I imagine really frustrating and understandably takes a toll on your own mental health. This is the part I'm most struggling with at the moment too.

I'm sorry I'm not really offering advice in this message, I just wanted to reach out as some of the things you've written really struck home to me. I really hope you start to get the strength to move on and somehow find closure, I understand that's going to be very hard and that's something I'm almost 99% sure I'm going to have to do very shortly too. What he's last said to you about filing for a complaint if you contact him seems very hurtful and also over the top, from everything you've explained about how things played out for you guys. It was sad to read that's how it's all escalated and I'm sending you lots of love right now. You will get through this.

Thank you for the support. It's been really rough, and for the love of god I pray your situation does not end up like mine. Dealing with someone with BPD is hard enough as it is because there's really not an instruction manual, but if you love them, then you can make it happen. But in my situation, I'm not even sure what the heck is going on. It's so extreme, and something inside had to have been a major trigger for him to be acting like this. There can only be so many times that you can open your arms to hug someone and love them before you have to start protecting yourself from the bullets that they consistently put in your heart.

[alexvidaa]

I am so sorry for the heartbreak.  Allow yourself plenty of time to grieve.  It's good to hear that you are committed to processing things and understanding them in order to help with future relationships.  What are you doing to take care of yourself?  Do you have friends in your hometown you can reconnect with?  Are you done with school or studying full-time or part-time?  What is going on in the rest of your life?

RC

I've been trying to get it together, go to the gym. I really don't know anyone to where I moved back to. I'm currently not in school but am in the process of applying. I'm working a  part time job while I work on finding a research job full time. I'm in the process of getting AFAA certification so I can pick up teaching Zumba classes here again like I did before I graduated school. I'm going to start going back to therapy because I have already baseline anxiety without emotional destruction going on, so it's definitely needed now because it feels like it's off the charts.

Do you think that he's able to be so mean and so nasty because he has the illusion he has friends and people and is forcing himself to branch out now, as opposed to last time? Can anyone explain to me, or try to explain, the insanity going on inside his head? Is there any probability he'd even attempt to come back?

[Radcliff]

I've been trying to get it together, go to the gym. I really don't know anyone to where I moved back to. I'm currently not in school but am in the process of applying. I'm working a  part time job while I work on finding a research job full time. I'm in the process of getting AFAA certification so I can pick up teaching Zumba classes here again like I did before I graduated school. I'm going to start going back to therapy because I have already baseline anxiety without emotional destruction going on, so it's definitely needed now because it feels like it's off the charts.

That's great that you're keeping busy.  Gym and work and pursuing your other goals don't directly fill that hole left by a breakup, so it still hurts, but having goals, seeing people, and exercising are important to your recovery.

Do you think that he's able to be so mean and so nasty because he has the illusion he has friends and people and is forcing himself to branch out now, as opposed to last time? Can anyone explain to me, or try to explain, the insanity going on inside his head? Is there any probability he'd even attempt to come back?

Your desire to understand is, well, totally understandable.  I'll try to answer, but his behavior will always be out of your control, and adequate understanding of him will likely always seem elusive, so beware the risk of frustration here.  pwBPD are often fear-driven.  A fear of abandonment is characteristic of the disorder.  Paradoxically, it can drive them to push someone away, because they feel safer rejecting the other person before they can be rejected.  If the other person is too close to them emotionally, that can be threatening.  If the other person expresses needs or desires different from them, that can be threatening.  Does any of that ring true?  Does it address your question?  Feel free to keep asking if I've missed the mark.

Yes, there's a chance he'll come back.  If he does, you'll want to be working on your recovery (so you project yourself as a healthy, attractive person, not too needy) and you'll want to be working on the tools here.  A good one to start with is boundaries.  Take a look at this  page on setting boundaries.  If he were to rekindle the relationship with you, are there any areas where you'd want to establish some boundaries to make the relationship feel better for you?

RC

[alexvidaa]

Your desire to understand is, well, totally understandable.  I'll try to answer, but his behavior will always be out of your control, and adequate understanding of him will likely always seem elusive, so beware the risk of frustration here.  pwBPD are often fear-driven.  A fear of abandonment is characteristic of the disorder.  Paradoxically, it can drive them to push someone away, because they feel safer rejecting the other person before they can be rejected.  If the other person is too close to them emotionally, that can be threatening.  If the other person expresses needs or desires different from them, that can be threatening.  Does any of that ring true?  Does it address your question?  Feel free to keep asking if I've missed the mark.

Yes, there's a chance he'll come back.  If he does, you'll want to be working on your recovery (so you project yourself as a healthy, attractive person, not too needy) and you'll want to be working on the tools here.  A good one to start with is boundaries.  Take a look at this  page on setting boundaries.  If he were to rekindle the relationship with you, are there any areas where you'd want to establish some boundaries to make the relationship feel better for you?

RC

I understand that it's hard to predict behavior, esp through what seems to be here a more extreme episode. In terms of what you said, that's a usual issue in the relationship. I think that's also why conflict can seem threatening to because he thinks it's me rejecting him or thinking the relationship is in jeopardy (when it's clearly not). He always said I was being too needy by doing usual relationship things like texting him and talking to him on the phone, but usually that wasn't the case when we were physically together. At times, he was under the impression that i was taking advantage of him because he was always cooking and cleaning but those were things he LOVED to do, and whenever I offered, he refused to let me do it. For example, if I didn't thank him at least twice for cooking dinner each night, he'd act offended and assume I didn't like his food or didn't appreciate it. I'd start doing the dishes but he would get offended because he'd want me to not have to worry about it, but then would get mad if i didn't. I think he thought my expectations of him were maybe too high at times when he wasn't mentally functioning right, which is understandable but I also tried to be understanding of him too. I always felt like that was a no win situation too. In general though, like I feel like he would try to sabotage the relationship at any point where he felt threatened (even if it wasn't a threat).

I think it all starts going down hill when outside life stressors start pushing. Like this all started going bad whenever he started school and figured out he'd be kicked out of the country if he didn't find a job by 30 days after his graduation or something like that. When we broke up the first time as described in the first post from 8 months ago, it was about to be the beginning of the semester. Last year, we started having similar but not as extreme problems. It always seems to get worse the closer we get. A year ago when he pseudo proposed to me, like a month later he freaked out and said stuff like "oh not sure i can marry you, i don't know what the future will be like, what if this doesn't work, etc etc." In january the day before he broke up with me, we made plans to go on a solo trip together. And like I said, legit 1 month ago he was working on figuring out how to buy me an engagement ring, so PLEASEEEE tell me how I'm here now? To a non-BPD, it's almost impossible for my mind to fathom. Usually when we get into an argument we can come back and talk about it but something must've really triggered him to this state. Another thing he keeps talking about is "i don't know if i want to follow you to medical school because I'm not sure i can find a job near you and you wouldn't want that, its been hard living together right now (even tho if we lived together later we would DEF get a WAY bigger apartment, eliminating the initial pressures of being too close in the summer)," and a million other reasons. it does almost seem like a self sabotage and Ive even tried telling him that but he like blocks it out and doesn't listen.

I think I diverged there, but I just don't understand how someone can go SO FAR off this track we were on. Like I said, to even get married! So in that sense, I'm still confused. I'm still so confused as to even if he were scared or trying to self sabotage, does he not feel any remorse for how he's treating me? Does he get any power from the fact that maybe he thinks he has other people in his life to feel my void, therefore giving him more leeway to treat me worse? Is he trying to completely destroy everything? The lies that he's telling himself and (worse) his friends to try to make them think I'm some type of crazy stalker... .does he really believe that, or is it just a coping mechanism? it seems really delusional IMO, and he seems super paranoid... .

It seems impossible right now that he'd think about coming back. Especially with the threatening. The chance doesn't seem very high, does it? But based off of all of the information I've told you, what do you honestly think about those chances? He's said like everything he's said to me before, this time, but it's just all WAY more extreme this time with his actions. I'm wondering if he's just more ashamed this time, and maybe doesn't want to see me so he doesn't have to confront it. The boundaries would definitely be reestablished and I'd honestly think we would need to go to couples therapy to work through it. Clearly sweeping it all under the rug and forgiving him was not the way to go last time. I think a boundary I'd have to set is that I would just not engage with him whenever I sense him getting triggered, to not fall into his trap of trying to get me upset. We've tried it before with writing our boundaries down for each other (like ones we would both follow) but literally he got into the mood and they completely didn't matter to him at that point. ahhhh, this is driving me insane.

Okay, im so sorry that was a lot and more than I initially put out there. I really do appreciate your help in helping me work through this.

[Radcliff]

No worries, no need to apologize!  It takes a while for people's stories to come out.  BPD symptoms tend to get worse with outside stressors, so what you've described is very typical.  You asked what the chances are that he will come back.  Since each pwBPD is unique, it's impossible to say.  The only thing that is certain is that they are full of surprises.  

Though we absolutely respect your current focus on whether this current relationship can be reconciled, since you're young in your relationship life I'd encourage you to keep thinking about what you want out of relationships in general.  A fantastic book that I truly, truly wish I'd been able to read at your age is The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, by John Gottman and Nan Silver.  Gottman is a rock star relationship researcher, and his work is really good.  He did extensive research on the characteristics of healthy marriages.  Better to read it years before you get married than years after! ;)

I'm sorry as well to hear about the stories he is telling friends.  This sort of reality distortion and campaign is also something other members experience.  It can be very painful.  If it helps you, you can tell us what's being said about you that you find upsetting.  You are not alone.

Another thing that you touched on is whether he believes his distortions.  I had a breakthrough moment in my marriage where I realized that my wife actually believed the things she was saying, then believed it when she was saying the opposite things just a little while later.  It hurts our non-BPD brains to try to wrap our minds around this, but I'm convinced it is true.  Understanding this helped me to depersonalize things a bit.  I realized that she really did mean what she said in the good times, and she wasn't necessarily being intentionally manipulative with some of the feelings she expressed in the bad times.  Her emotions simply reversed 180 degrees in a way that mine didn't.

He said that you should burn his stuff, right?  If it's not bothering you, go ahead and hang onto it for a while.  With that kind of sentiment, you need to stand back and not approach him.  I found that in the middle of a storm, I just needed to let it roll, and later on, I could keep my eyes out for a "bid" from my wife to get closer to her.  In some of the blowups before, did you experience this, where he'd give off a signal of some sort that he was ready to reconnect?  What did it look like?

RC

p.s. Don't forget to check out that Gottman book.  I really do wish that I'd been able to read it when I was right out of college.

[alexvidaa]

I'm sorry as well to hear about the stories he is telling friends.  This sort of reality distortion and campaign is also something other members experience.  It can be very painful.  If it helps you, you can tell us what's being said about you that you find upsetting.  You are not alone.

The campaigning is a new thing. Im not sure what has been said about me but all I know is that it can’t be good. It had to be bad enough to convince people that I’m too crazy to talk to. I’m wondering if it’s to get people on his side that will tell him what he wants to hear. To have people in his life. Because he’s a legit loner. He usually loves being alone. In the two years we were together he didn’t have any friends besides me. Hardly went out with anyone besides me. So all these new people in his life and his increased effort is out of character. Any insight into that?

Another thing that you touched on is whether he believes his distortions.  I had a breakthrough moment in my marriage where I realized that my wife actually believed the things she was saying, then believed it when she was saying the opposite things just a little while later.  It hurts our non-BPD brains to try to wrap our minds around this, but I'm convinced it is true.  Understanding this helped me to depersonalize things a bit.  I realized that she really did mean what she said in the good times, and she wasn't necessarily being intentionally manipulative with some of the feelings she expressed in the bad times.  Her emotions simply reversed 180 degrees in a way that mine didn't.

That’s interesting. It’s funny because I truly believe he believes his reality distortions right now. Otherwise I would think there’d be some sort of logic with it. How long did her distortions typically last? Was there any way to bring her out of it?

He said that you should burn his stuff, right?  If it's not bothering you, go ahead and hang onto it for a while.  With that kind of sentiment, you need to stand back and not approach him.  I found that in the middle of a storm, I just needed to let it roll, and later on, I could keep my eyes out for a "bid" from my wife to get closer to her.  In some of the blowups before, did you experience this, where he'd give off a signal of some sort that he was ready to reconnect?  What did it look like?

I’m not sure what I’ll do with it yet. I’m going to be in the city so I’m tempted just to give it to the doorman and have him be in charge of it because I don’t like the idea of tarnishing or just discarding something away that has value. I don’t want to see him right now because he’d try to tell me I’m crazy or a stalker or desperate or something which I’m not. The fact that he brought up my approaching his friends in his text of legal threat tells me he’s probably told them things along those lines too. What’s crazier is that somehow they believe him, and that’s more hurtful. People that have known me and have met me many times. In our arguments in previous times up until 11 months into the relationship, he always tried to come back on his own. Other than that, that’s when he launched into depression so I’ve given him so much attention and probably was a little annoying and persistent with checking on him and trying to talk with him when he pushed me away. I was always concerned he was going to commit suicide so my dignity of sending multiple texts to check in and etc was gone. But he never was mad about it or anything. He usually just ignored me when he wanted to. But he always came back. Even at the worst point when we did this last time in January when I went to get my stuff back, I cracked him into coming back to his emotions in person by just asking him the truth to questions like why was he so mean to me or why he did this and that if he really felt like he didn’t miss or love me anymore. Basically seeing me in person and him starting to cry usually meant he wanted back in. But during the summer, I was always the one who again was the one going back and back again to fix things. It almost became my role. He wouldn’t apologize for things unless I started the conversation first. These all happened in person though. Seems like he could avoid me when he never saw me when we were long distance so things usually got bad but got good again in person. That’s why I really think his whole thing is out of sight out of mind because when we are in person he has told me he can’t lie to me and I’m undeniable to him. So hence I’m worried that things will just be broken forever now

Also thank you for the book recommendation! I wil for sure give it a read, I’m always  looking for new books!

[Radcliff]

With regards to why he's hanging out with people, I'd just be guessing.  It could just be a transitional thing after the relationship troubles, but you guys are still young, so perhaps he's learning new behaviors.

My wife's distortions were extremely persistent.  When times were good, I'd sometimes try to go back and come to an agreement on stuff from the bad times.  It didn't typically work out, so I gave up.  Other's may have different experiences; every pwBPD is different.

I understand what you said about the power of being face-to-face vs. long distance.  What kind of timing was there to your breakup/makeup cycles before?  How long did a good period last, and how long did a breakup last?

RC

[alexvidaa]

With regards to why he's hanging out with people, I'd just be guessing.  It could just be a transitional thing after the relationship troubles, but you guys are still young, so perhaps he's learning new behaviors.
 

One of the reasons he wanted a break was because he desperately wanted to be alone and by himself. When he wasn’t with me while I went to take my MCAT he said it was the best thing ever finally being alone by himself. So it just seems weird to me that all the sudden he’s trying to fill his life with tons of people.

My wife's distortions were extremely persistent.  When times were good, I'd sometimes try to go back and come to an agreement on stuff from the bad times.  It didn't typically work out, so I gave up.  Other's may have different experiences; every pwBPD is different.

With him, he usually was aware of the damage he was doing but felt he could not help it. He felt terribly about it which is why I think he tried so hard to stay away to protect me. He’d claim him telling me awful things were to push me away so he wouldn’t have to deal with the mean things he was doing to me. I’m not so sure this time though. Like I said it seems all so extreme this time.

I understand what you said about the power of being face-to-face vs. long distance.  What kind of timing was there to your breakup/makeup cycles before?  How long did a good period last, and how long did a breakup last?

At first at the end of last year, they’d last hours if they happened on the phone and in person. Only twice tho. Then in jaunary, we broke up, two weeks later got together, 1.5 weeks later broke up, and then 2 weeks later got back together. We’ve been together ever since then. Well up until now .
Now it’s been like we decided to go on a break, but we still somewhat in a relationship Bc I was still living there. It was a complicated relationship at that point because honestly we were both gonna use the break as time to breathe and to have some time apart. Then two weeks later he breaks up with me. And two weeks later here I am, still blocked and now with threatsand smear campaigns.

Is it typical that the worse the outside stressors, the worse they behave? If he doesn’t have me around anymore to blame or to inflict his pain he feels, will he go back to realizing it’s really him or will he find someone else? It’s hard for him to get close to people so I’m having a hard time figuring this one out

[once removed]

It was a complicated relationship

one of the things we encourage most on this board, is that if you are in Reversing a Breakup mode, to consider the old incarnation of the relationship to be over, and any future incarnation of the relationship to be a new relationship, with a very different approach/game plan.

setting him aside for the moment, if the relationship were to reconcile, what would you want to do differently on your end?

[alexvidaa]

one of the things we encourage most on this board, is that if you are in Reversing a Breakup mode, to consider the old incarnation of the relationship to be over, and any future incarnation of the relationship to be a new relationship, with a very different approach/game plan.

setting him aside for the moment, if the relationship were to reconcile, what would you want to do differently on your end?

I feel like that is a good outlook. I am still here trying to hold on to the past relationship because I'm not sure there will be a future one. It's painstaking knowing that it's basically all up to him, and all on his terms. I don't know how to deal with that. I at least just wish he would give me the opportunity to have closure and talk it out and just say goodbye. Leaving it with a nasty ending is sad for me and it's characteristic of our relationship at all.

If I were to get back with him, I'd want to try to be more involved in things that he likes, ask him if he needs space (because sometimes that information doesn't come out voluntarily), and not give into his bait of trying to get me upset or riled up--I'd just leave the conversation for later. When he tries to do that to me, the little jabs become a huge fight because as it progresses, no matter what I try to say or do to deescalate it, he continues to say rude things. So I think it'd just be best to maybe leave the room for half an hour or so. I'm not sure, it would depend on a lot of things. The first thing is that he'd need to be getting true help for his issues.

[Radcliff]

To your earlier question about stress, yes, in my experience, the worse the outside stress, the worse the BPD behaviors.

It's painstaking knowing that it's basically all up to him, and all on his terms.

His behavior is all on his terms.  It's hard to know that the resumption of a relationship is not something we can make happen just by our will.  But your participation is on your terms.  Try to absorb that because it is empowering.  You are not at his whim.  If he wants to re-engage, you can make a conscious choice to re-engage.  In relationships that are cyclical, we sometimes get so much in the "saving" habit so much that we're never making a conscious decision to go back -- we just plunge right back in, never evaluating, never taking stock.  It's important to develop the habit of being intentional about any recycling.  Otherwise, someday if it becomes important for us to leave or avoid returning to a relationship in order to be true to ourselves, we will never realize it because we never asked the question.

The first thing is that he'd need to be getting true help for his issues.

If I were in your shoes that is something I'd hope for, too.  Our hopes may or may not come to pass.  How does this play out in real life?  Would you not go back until he was in therapy?  Would you go back and try to convince him to go into therapy?  When one starts to unpack that seemingly simple statement quoted above, there's a lot there  

RC

[alexvidaa]

To your earlier question about stress, yes, in my experience, the worse the outside stress, the worse the BPD behaviors.
His behavior is all on his terms.  It's hard to know that the resumption of a relationship is not something we can make happen just by our will.  But your participation is on your terms.  Try to absorb that because it is empowering.  You are not at his whim.  If he wants to re-engage, you can make a conscious choice to re-engage.  In relationships that are cyclical, we sometimes get so much in the "saving" habit so much that we're never making a conscious decision to go back -- we just plunge right back in, never evaluating, never taking stock.  It's important to develop the habit of being intentional about any recycling.  Otherwise, someday if it becomes important for us to leave or avoid returning to a relationship in order to be true to ourselves, we will never realize it because we never asked the question.
If I were in your shoes that is something I'd hope for, too.  Our hopes may or may not come to pass.  How does this play out in real life?  Would you not go back until he was in therapy?  Would you go back and try to convince him to go into therapy?  When one starts to unpack that seemingly simple statement quoted above, there's a lot there  

RC

Do you think that because I've been the one to kind of be the "relationship glue" so to speak, aka always going back to fix things and etc, that he's just not used to fixing things himself?

I understand what you're saying, but I'm still kind of in the grieving process. I know I will get there someday. the thing is that he is actually in therapy right now, but with someone who is very unexperienced and clearly unhelpful. I would be kind of skeptical to jump right back in. I'd want to maybe spend a couple of months where we aren't in a relationship but are going to be, while he's in better therapy.

[Radcliff]

Do you think that because I've been the one to kind of be the "relationship glue" so to speak, aka always going back to fix things and etc, that he's just not used to fixing things himself?

There may be something to that.  If you were in contact with each other, he may know how to make a "bid for attention" that would signal you that it is safe to come back.

I understand what you're saying, but I'm still kind of in the grieving process. I know I will get there someday. the thing is that he is actually in therapy right now, but with someone who is very unexperienced and clearly unhelpful. I would be kind of skeptical to jump right back in. I'd want to maybe spend a couple of months where we aren't in a relationship but are going to be, while he's in better therapy.

That helps to know that he's already in therapy, as that's a big step that many pwBPD don't take.  He definitely would get the most out of seeing someone with solid experience treating personality disorders.  Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) is the gold standard. 

The amount of time you have been apart is a relatively small fraction of the time you were together.  The time apart for him to cool down and feel less pressured is likely helpful.  In a relationship, if one is retreating and the other is pursuing, the one retreating has the power.  I'm not advocating that anyone be manipulative, but if you're pursuing, you're gifting all the power to him.  Take your time with this.  A little bit of grieving, a little bit of hoping, a little bit of healing.  When I was upset about stressful uncertainties in my life, a friend of mine advised, "embrace the questions."  It helped me to accept the uncertainty and live with it, to not burden myself with expectations of quick resolution.

RC

[alexvidaa]

There may be something to that.  If you were in contact with each other, he may know how to make a "bid for attention" that would signal you that it is safe to come back.
That helps to know that he's already in therapy, as that's a big step that many pwBPD don't take.  He definitely would get the most out of seeing someone with solid experience treating personality disorders.  Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) is the gold standard. 

but we aren't in contact he's blocked me on everything . So if he ever tried to contact me again, would that maybe be a sign?

The amount of time you have been apart is a relatively small fraction of the time you were together.  The time apart for him to cool down and feel less pressured is likely helpful.  In a relationship, if one is retreating and the other is pursuing, the one retreating has the power.  I'm not advocating that anyone be manipulative, but if you're pursuing, you're gifting all the power to him.  Take your time with this.  A little bit of grieving, a little bit of hoping, a little bit of healing.  When I was upset about stressful uncertainties in my life, a friend of mine advised, "embrace the questions."  It helped me to accept the uncertainty and live with it, to not burden myself with expectations of quick resolution.

So it's just better to just let him be for now? And if he comes back, then we'll just see where it goes? It's so hard to embrace the questions because to me that means trying to find answers

[once removed]

So it's just better to just let him be for now? And if he comes back, then we'll just see where it goes? It's so hard to embrace the questions because to me that means trying to find answers

at the end of the day, i think there are a lot of lessons to take to future relationships.

you mentioned this is your first, do i have that right? its really hard to have anything to compare that to, our behavior, their behavior, what we want in/out of a relationship, etc.

considering all of these things will help you whether he comes back, or if you choose to move on.

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and was locked.  Part 2 is located here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329777.0