We broke up a week ago -- is there any hope left?

[alexvidaa]

I posted almost 8 months ago with the backstory here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=321121.msg12938825#msg12938825

Long story short, we've been in a relationship for 1 year and 9 months. He has depression and anxiety and I'm pretty sure he is uBPD. We broke up in January/Feburary and then got back together at the end of February when I went to go end things for sure and give him his stuff back. He got on antidepressants which have been somewhat helpful. However, after I went to go get my things from him, he caved and said that he was sorry, didn't know how to process his feelings, and wanted to get back with me.

We were doing okay ever since and I even went to live with him in the summer so I could have some quiet time to study for my MCAT. He invited me to stay with him until he graduated in December. The apartment was a microscopic studio apartment and at times it was hard being on top of each other all the time. In hindsight, because I was studying so much we didn't spend too much time together outside of the apartment between my work and studying, and his work in the lab. Either way, things were going well besides the occasional issues with having to maneuver living together in such a small space (logistics of who cleans what, how often things are cleaned, grocery shopping, who makes dinner, etc). During that time I did need a little bit more emotional support due to myself going through more anxiety than usual because of the intensity of studying and the pressure to do well. I never neglected him despite that though, and always made sure I supported him through his anxiety and depression and trying to be the most understanding I could of him. We truly were doing good besides stupid fights here and there, most of which were emotional outbursts from him. We have pictures together where you can tell we truly love each other and people who hung out with us said that we seemed perfect together because we got along and loved each other so much.

About a month ago, probably around the time his semester was starting, he exploded on me and told me I needed to move out ASAP. He told me that I had compromised his safe space, his mental health of not having things not cluttered (there was obviously more things in the apartment than usual). We had oversaturated our time together and I think we just needed some time apart (something he agreed with!). He then revealed to me that it was too much for him to emotionally support me in the way he pressured himself to. The extent that he went to was almost insane and illogical. He stopped taking his antidepressants to supposedly increase his sees drive to make me happier and do better on the MCAT. To be perfectly clear, this is something i would NEVER ask nor expect, and in fact we've talked many times about because it does decrease his sexual desire but I reassured him that he NEEDED to be on the medication and we'd figure the rest out. Anyways, it was impossible at that time to leave that day and almost unreasonable to expect. I didn't take it well at first because he didnt offer any other explanation other than "LEAVE NOW!" and then launched into saying other mean things against me (partially verbally abusive). Once he calmed down from the emotional explosion, he said I could stay there and we negotiated when i could stay because after all, I had a job and was not able to finance an apartment on my own in a huge city. I had agreed to leave a month from then, which would allow me to finish the MCAT and to give my job enough notice. He agreed to this date.

Approximately a week later, we got into a small fight about him laying on my pillow for 10 minutes with a completely sweaty back. I was annoyed, but apparently being annoyed over that was unacceptable to him. Again, because he cannot take any conflict against him, he launched into a war against me with telling me mean and awful things about myself (still verbally abusive). I called him out on that, and that it wasn't acceptable to be telling me everything that I do wrong and to tell me very harsh and untrue things (like how awful I am, how I'm the needy one, how it's ridiculous that I like to text him). Then out of no where, he tells me he wants to break up with me and that he had been planning to do it after the MCAT. I thought he was just having another emotional outburst but he really can't ever be mature enough to talk something out. He then started talking about how he was not fulfilled or happy with his life anymore. He had stopped going to the gym too. He then told me he didn't know if he loved me anymore because he just felt annoyed at being around me all the time. I told him that it makes sense he felt annoyed because we were on top of each other all summer but that it was crazy to say he didnt love me anymore because of it. I told him we just needed some time apart because of over saturation of time together. We agreed to take a month break after my MCAT ended and after I left. It was a weird time because we couldn't truly take a break yet, so we used the time I still had left before leaving to take my MCAT to be closer to each other and more intimate (sounds contradictory now). But it was all done without any pressure. I was fine with being cordial and not being all lovey dovey, but we started doing nice things for each other and doing things together we knew the other liked (him listening to my radio show with me, and me watching his favorite shows with him and reading comics with him). We laughed and talked for hours and still had so many genuinely good moments. We still cuddled and all that other stuff and the night before I left he held me very tight and told me that he couldn't lose me and that his greatest fear was losing me. He also tried to say that he would use those days I was gone to see if he missed me because then that would mean he loved me. I told him that didnt make sense because he'd probably be elated to be by himself and get some alone time since that's what he's been wanting for a while. Again, it was a weird time and we talked about if we were going to talk for the six days that I was gone and he said that we would. So we did for the first two days. I jokingly asked if he missed me and he said no. After that, he had another emotional outburst and said I was just suffocating him and to not talk to him for the rest of the time I was gone. The day before my MCAT he called me to help me calm down and he assured me that everything was going to be okay with us and that we'd talk when I got back to the city. I called after the MCAT and he said the same thing.

Once I arrived back in the city after the MCAT for a few more work shifts and at this point only have 6 more days left. Right when I walked through the door he said he wanted to break up with me, that I didn't make him happy anymore, that he didn't miss or think about me at all while I was gone, that he didn't want the relationship anymore, and the worst part, he said that he had been faking the relationship for the past four months. Whenever he gets like this or in any fight where he has to try to "protect" himself, he becomes a pompous, cold, emotionless, and mean douche. Of course I was so hurt by his words. The conversation got worse as I resisted because I had been completely lied to and we had agreed to take a break. He said that I didn't matter anymore, and that there was nothing that I could say to change his mind. Almost everything he said contradicted something else he's tried to say to hurt me before. Again, it got to a point where it was emotionally abusive and I had to call my parents to come and get me because I did not feel emotionally safe. I felt so blind sided and betrayed by someone who claimed they couldn't lose me and that we were on the way to working things out and getting back to normal after we had some time apart to breathe.

When I was about to leave he kept trying to hug me for long periods of time and started to tear up. When I asked him, he told me that he was telling the truth before I left for my MCAT because he really felt like he couldnt lose me, that he was just trying to convince himself he was mentally health enough to be with me. He said he wasnt mentally capable of being in a serious relationship at the moment because he had gotten worse. Also he said that lots of things in the past four months were not fake. We shared a couple more inside jokes before I took all of my stuff and left. I told him that no matter what that I'd always love him and that the connection we had would never fade despite him trying to tell himself and convince himself he didn't love me anymore.

The day after, I found out that he had told mutual friends at his work that he was over the relationship 6 months ago and was told that he was doing just fine. Funny because 6 months ago he was contemplating suicide and wanted to get back with me? I called him out on it, to which he apologized for talking about me (not for what he said). He then blocked my phone number and then unfollowed me on all social media.

I'm just really confused because his emotions and actions literally took a whole turn around. Almost like a whole different person. I don't know how to decipher it. I don't even know what to do anymore. He went through something similar like described a little in the previous post, but this is so much more severe. The way he is able to emotionally dissociate himself from me is insane and it really feels like he believes his twisted reality he's lied to himself about. Literally everyone is shocked. I'm still hurt, and still left wondering. I hate how he makes me feel crazy and like it is my fault, but the truth of the reality is I'm not even sure he can decipher or process his own feelings. So the brunt of it is always just me.

The question is: is there hope? at all? or just i don't know. It's still a very fresh wound as the official breakup happened a week ago. Maybe I'm crazy for thinking there is still hope, but was wondering if anyone can give me any words of the worst of these admiration/devaluation cycles, and when you know it's over for good?

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[once removed]

hi alexvidaa,

some people feel easily smothered and pressured. sometimes they take on pressures that no one is asking them to take on. and sometimes those people dont communicate it especially well, and resentment builds, until it explodes.

it sounds like there has been a great deal of pressure on the both of you in the last several months. living together can certainly do that, especially in a small space. throw additional stressful circumstances for both of you on top of that, and things start to boil over.

so i think this was a pressure cooker so to speak, and it wasnt all necessarily obvious to you at the time.

is there hope? i think there is.

the first, most important step is to stop the bleeding. i wouldnt approach him with any more of the information you hear. i wouldnt press for answers or to talk about the relationship. stop the cycle of conflict. the entire situation needs a lot of space if its going to get better.

you mentioned the official breakup was a week ago. how long since you spoke?

[Radcliff]

First, I'm sorry you were experiencing so much drama in the runup to your MCATs.  You must have been working so hard on your studies and on preparing for the MCATs.

As for whether or not there is any hope, that depends on what you are hoping for.  The chances that the relationship might recycle seem fairly good.  If it does, work with us on the Bettering board so we can help you learn tools to reduce the conflict.  His behaviors and issues may not change, though, and his push-pull behavior may prevent you from feeling safe in the relationship.  Hoping that he will become neurotypical is unrealistic.  With effort at learning coping tools and changing their own behaviors, some partners are able to have rewarding relationships with their pwBPD.  Every situation is different, since no pwBPD expresses traits in the same way or amount, and every partner has different needs and strengths.

Take a look at this page on What Does It Take To Be In a BPD Relationship?  Can you tell us what your thoughts are after reading that material?

RC

[alexvidaa]

is there hope? i think there is.

the first, most important step is to stop the bleeding. i wouldnt approach him with any more of the information you hear. i wouldnt press for answers or to talk about the relationship. stop the cycle of conflict. the entire situation needs a lot of space if its going to get better.

you mentioned the official breakup was a week ago. how long since you spoke?

Well after I approached him with lying about the 6 month thing, he blocked me. Then unfollowed me on social media. He didn’t block me on whatsapp though. A few days later I found out that two of our mutual friends were diagnosed with life threatening illnesses and I was so worried about that. Since he was literally the only person in my life who actually knew both of them; I texted him on whatsapp explaining the situation. I told him I understood we both needed space but that literally two of our friends were dying and I didn’t know who else to go to. He took two days to read that message and when he finally opened it he didn’t reply.

I’m not sure what to do. He was and still is in my mind my best friend. We talked everyday since two years ago. It’s really hard. Is there a certain time, say, in so many weeks, that it’d be appropriate to text him? Or should I just wait?

[alexvidaa]

As for whether or not there is any hope, that depends on what you are hoping for.  The chances that the relationship might recycle seem fairly good.  If it does, work with us on the Bettering board so we can help you learn tools to reduce the conflict.  His behaviors and issues may not change, though, and his push-pull behavior may prevent you from feeling safe in the relationship.  Hoping that he will become neurotypical is unrealistic.  With effort at learning coping tools and changing their own behaviors, some partners are able to have rewarding relationships with their pwBPD.  Every situation is different, since no pwBPD expresses traits in the same way or amount, and every partner has different needs and strengths.

Take a look at this page on What Does It Take To Be In a BPD Relationship?  Can you tell us what your thoughts are after reading that material?

RC

Hi RC, I think that for me it’s very difficult because I am a sensitive person to not take things personally. It’s hard when he tells me he hasn’t loved me for the past 4 months (even tho logically I can tell myself with eviddncd that it’s not true). To me those words are just cruel but at the same time he can’t seem to help himself to keep saying consistently more mean things to me. What’s worse is that I can’t seem to talk him out of it at all. He has a different tone and way of speaking when he gets that way but it’s frustrating because there’s no way for me to even get through to him during one of those times and leaves me feeling insecure.

I love him so much and it’s ridiculous because all of my friends don’t understand it. They think that he’s been awful and cruel to me and that it’s his loss if he doesn’t try to come back. I really want him to come back though. I know deep inside he is a good person with just terrible coping mechanisms and not a lot of emotional maturity.

He’s blocked me and won’t talk to me so I feel hopeless right now. When do you think it’ll start getting better or when he’d try to come back?

BTW, we *now* live 4 hours away from each other. We take a bus to get to each other usually before we lived with each other.

[alexvidaa]

It’s also my birthday today. Is it crazy of me to think he’d be decent enough to at least wish me a happy birthday? Or do pwBPD that are in the devaluation cycle not think that way? I’m just really confused. And sad.

I’m glad that I have this forum and you all to talk to about it. It’s hard talking to friends about it because to them they can only see him as a douche. While it’s not okay the way he treats me, I somewhat understand him. Honestly the worst position to be in!

[macarena]

Hi Alexvidaa,

And first of all, HAPPY BIRTHDAY! You deserve all the best!

Let me start by saying I am sorry, I feel your pain (similar situation) and I can relate to so much of what you are saying. Two months ago, I was exactly there, on my birthday, wondering if he would have the decency to say two words (he didn’t).
 To put it short (I’ve posted here the whole story as well), after a conflict situation and some accusations that were completely untrue, my person stopped communicating completely and then blocked me after I tried to explain how important he is for me and how lack of contact hurt me.

I know it’s nearly impossible not to take it personally, especially from a person you love the most. However, it’s teally important to keep in mind that your person has serious problems in emotional regulation. It doesn’t mean that everything should be excused (not at all), but also, it’s unrealistic to expect “normal”, healthy reactions in a complicated situation. For me, it helps to shift from thinking “what did I do?” and “I really don’t deserve this” to feeling compassion towards him and thinking of what I can do (both for myself and to improve the situation for both of us).

I understand your urge to talk to him to try and resolve the situation (I would so like to be able to do that!) but it seems to have the opposite effect.  As you said, when you tried to approach him, he retreated further (the same happened to me). It just seems that trying to talk and expressing your feelings (even if they are positive) stirs up all the conflicting emotions in them, and they are just unable to handle those complicated emotions, so they run. So the best approach, as Once removed suggested here, seems to give it time and space. I know, it’s incredibly hard (I used to talk to my person every day too, and he is one of my best friends and I want so bad to tell him about all the little achievements and disappointments) but it seems to be the only way out of this. They need to get to a point where they can somewhat handle their emotions. And to be fair, in these hurtful situations, we also need it (in a different way, but still).

Also, when you are thinking of his reaction to your messages about a friends’ illness, you are measuring it by the standard of a person more or less emotionally healthy. It’s true, it seems that any other person would at least say something, react, express compassion, etc. But they seem to be in such emotional turmoil that even reading the message seems something huge (same in my case - 1-2 days to read one), let alone respond. He probably feels lost/guilty/ashamed and many other things at the time, and doesn’t know what to do at all.

Give it time. I’m trying to do the same. Try to read more materials on this site as they are of huge help to understand our situations.

Please keep sharing how everything evolves.

[alexvidaa]

Give it time. I’m trying to do the same. Try to read more materials on this site as they are of huge help to understand our situations.

Please keep sharing how everything evolves.

Hi Macarena,

Thank you! I’ll keep things updated because I’m going back to the city in a week or so to celebrate my birthday with friends the way I wanted to, before he ruined all the plans. While I’m there I plan on giving him back stuff of his and just leave forever because I really think I’m too hurt. He throws me away like I’m trash and like our almost two years together meant nothing. I’m also afraid he might be trying to jump into seeing other people and that’s just even more hurtful. Tonight i saw he was out at a Mexican restaurant but idk with who. He never goes to restaurants by himself... .maybe I’m paranoid and maybe not. I don’t want to leave forever but he treats me like sh*t and doesn’t ever seem to have any remorse about it. Which all makes me devastated. I’m lost and upset and I just don’t even know anymore. Has your person talked to you?

[Radcliff]

It’s also my birthday today. Is it crazy of me to think he’d be decent enough to at least wish me a happy birthday? Or do pwBPD that are in the devaluation cycle not think that way? I’m just really confused. And sad.  

It's not crazy at all.  But may be unrealistic.  That kind of empathy may not be in his toolkit, especially when his mind is full of so many other emotions, fears, etc.

I love him so much and it’s ridiculous because all of my friends don’t understand it. They think that he’s been awful and cruel to me and that it’s his loss if he doesn’t try to come back. I really want him to come back though. I know deep inside he is a good person with just terrible coping mechanisms and not a lot of emotional maturity.

Yes, it can be hard with folks who don't understand why we love our pwBPD so much.  It makes it hard to have a discussion or get advice that rings true when we're not able to start at a similar place of understanding.  We understand how powerful those feelings of love can be.

He’s blocked me and won’t talk to me so I feel hopeless right now. When do you think it’ll start getting better or when he’d try to come back?

It's hard to know, and completely beyond your control.  This is going to sound like difficult advice to follow, but setting our hopes on other's behavior is a sure recipe for misery.  Your hopes and desires are totally valid.  We can't realistically ask you to deny them.  But, one way to address the feelings of hopelessness is to start filling your time with positive steps you can do to take care of yourself, doing things that are within your control.  Having a birthday celebration with your friends is a good example.  Can you think of any other opportunities?  Slowly, over time, it really works.

RC

[alexvidaa]

It's not crazy at all.  But may be unrealistic.  That kind of empathy may not be in his toolkit, especially when his mind is full of so many other emotions, fears, etc.

It's hard to know, and completely beyond your control.  This is going to sound like difficult advice to follow, but setting our hopes on other's behavior is a sure recipe for misery.  Your hopes and desires are totally valid.  We can't realistically ask you to deny them.  But, one way to address the feelings of hopelessness is to start filling your time with positive steps you can do to take care of yourself, doing things that are within your control.  Having a birthday celebration with your friends is a good example.  Can you think of any other opportunities?  Slowly, over time, it really works.

RC

HI RC,

When in the devaluation stage, is empathy towards the person that they devalue gone or is it for everyone? Also, is it typical for pwBPD to blame their SO for all their issues in life? He almost starts the devaluation process at the beginning of every school semester where he himself starts feeling low self esteem, self doubt, self hate, etc. Why would that translate into having to dissociate from the SO and convince themselves they don’t love them anymore?

And yeah, ive been trying to! I’m an emotional person and I’m very emotionally attached to him. It’s reslly really hard for me to deal with him being so cold. I don’t want to hold onto hope of him coming back if he’s not going to, which id why I feel so urged to talk to him. Usually on here after a drastic breakup, the other one comes back within a couple of weeks, but based on his actions to try to completely cut me out of his life, I’m just not even sure. Is this normal?

[once removed]

When in the devaluation stage, is empathy towards the person that they devalue gone or is it for everyone? Also, is it typical for pwBPD to blame their SO for all their issues in life?

another member here suggested looking for the human nature part of the equation before looking at BPD pathology. its good advice.

theres been a lot of pressure in/on this relationship, and a lot of conflict on top of it, some small, some big.

he wants away from that - far away from it, right now.

While I’m there I plan on giving him back stuff of his and just leave forever because I really think I’m too hurt.

if you are wanting to reconcile the relationship, i would encourage you not to take this approach. it is more pressure, more conflict, gasoline on the fire.

[alexvidaa]

another member here suggested looking for the human nature part of the equation before looking at BPD pathology. its good advice.

theres been a lot of pressure in/on this relationship, and a lot of conflict on top of it, some small, some big.

he wants away from that - far away from it, right now.

if you are wanting to reconcile the relationship, i would encourage you not to take this approach. it is more pressure, more conflict, gasoline on the fire.

Hi once removed,

I understand that part of it. Which initially is why we decided to take a break, despite the fact I really really didn’t want to (didn’t tell him that) because he tends to use time to himself to emotionally detach to make things easier. I know time apart was needed because of the craziness of the summer, but it really just leaves me so anxious because it seems like he’s closed the door on me forever. Blocked me, ignores me on whatsapp, unfollowing me... .I know it’s signs of needing space but it was all just so abrupt and my mind doesn’t know how to handle it.

I do want him back, but he’s acting like he’s done forever. I asked him why he was acting like I didn’t exist, something he of course ignored, and then posted a picture of the ground to a career fair he was going to on instagram. It’s out of character because he has always thought social media and posting things was stupid. In the entire two years I’ve known him he has only posted pictures of us. So to me it kind of felt like a message that he didn’t care about me at all anymore. Maybe I am just paranoid. I am going to the city next weekend and I do plan on just dropping his stuff off. I took his suitcase with me when I left because I didn’t have enough space to fit all of my stuff. I’m thinking of just writing him a letter because I do not want any conflict but I do want to tell him how I feel about the way he handled things. He may hate me forever or may decide to read it later in a better mindset. Isn’t that the way it is now though? He may decide to blacklist me forever or decide to talk to me again—on his terms.

It just seems like he’s acting out of sight out of mind. Our mutual friends don’t text me back anymore, so maybe he’s smeared me to them. I don’t know. All I know is that I’m not okay, and it’s jusy hard to make myself okay with someone treating me like this. I’m sorry if I seem annoying or contradicting (I love him but How do I make his Actions okay in my head?), but your advice and everyone’s advice on here means a lot to me during this confusing time.

[Radcliff]

While I’m there I plan on giving him back stuff of his and just leave forever because I really think I’m too hurt.

I'm going to take a slightly different spin on this than once removed.  Sure, being dramatic about it would add fuel to the fire.  But giving his stuff back to him in a considerate fashion might be helpful to you to allow separation from him, and could feel like a healing, gentle thing to do.  If you've got it packed up in a way it can be given to him without embarrassing him or making a big deal about it, saying that you thought he might want his things, that could work.  It also shows that you are willing to let go with love, which, paradoxically might make him feel less threatened and wanting to come back to you.

When in the devaluation stage, is empathy towards the person that they devalue gone or is it for everyone?

My personal experience, and I've heard similar stories from some others, is that my pwBPD's ire was almost exclusively reserved for me.  I got 90% of the nastiness.  Other members report that their pwBPD dishes it out to everyone.  Every pwBPD is unique.

Also, is it typical for pwBPD to blame their SO for all their issues in life? He almost starts the devaluation process at the beginning of every school semester where he himself starts feeling low self esteem, self doubt, self hate, etc.

It's been long enough since I read it that I can't remember the psychological explanation, but yes, pwBPD often have a very hard time seeing their responsibility for things and tend to blame others.  You are the closest, so you get the lion's share of the blame.  This tends to be a persistent issue.

Why would that translate into having to dissociate from the SO and convince themselves they don’t love them anymore?

One potential explanation is the psychological phenomenon called "projection."  They project all of their bad feelings about themselves onto their partner.  A related issue is "lack of differentiation."  That means that they have trouble understanding the boundaries between them and other people.  You and he are one person, so if he hates himself, he hates you.

And yeah, ive been trying to! I’m an emotional person and I’m very emotionally attached to him. It’s reslly really hard for me to deal with him being so cold. I don’t want to hold onto hope of him coming back if he’s not going to, which id why I feel so urged to talk to him. Usually on here after a drastic breakup, the other one comes back within a couple of weeks, but based on his actions to try to completely cut me out of his life, I’m just not even sure. Is this normal?

Yes, strong attempts to separate are common, and the separation can last a long while.  Very quick recycles are also common.  As I mentioned, every pwBPD is unique, so our members have a variety of experiences.

It can be especially tough on members who bond with a pwBPD relatively early in their dating lives.  It makes it hard to have a yardstick to measure things by.  Do you mind if I ask about your relationship experience before you met him?

RC

[once removed]

I’m thinking of just writing him a letter because I do not want any conflict but I do want to tell him how I feel about the way he handled things.

i think youve made this clear.

He may hate me forever or may decide to read it later in a better mindset. Isn’t that the way it is now though?

overpursuing this would push anyone in his position further away. are you prepared for that?

im not sure "the way it is" is limited to those two outcomes. giving space often gives the other party the room to get to baseline and more inclined to reach out.

[Radcliff]

All I know is that I’m not okay, and it’s jusy hard to make myself okay with someone treating me like this. I’m sorry if I seem annoying or contradicting (I love him but How do I make his Actions okay in my head?), but your advice and everyone’s advice on here means a lot to me during this confusing time.

You are not annoying.  These are tough times.  We've all been there, and received support from others.  We're here because we want to be here!  And contradictions go with the territory -- it's one of the things that makes these situations so tough.  I'm sorry you're not OK, but am glad you're able to talk about it.  One thing that I found helpful is to depersonalize things by recognizing that the pwBPD's disorder means that the signals they are sending to us are "off."  We are used to seeing ourselves reflected in the people we are with, so when they are treating us poorly, we can feel bad about ourselves.  His poor treatment of you is due to his disorder, not because you have done anything to deserve it. 

RC

[alexvidaa]

I'm going to take a slightly different spin on this than once removed.  Sure, being dramatic about it would add fuel to the fire.  But giving his stuff back to him in a considerate fashion might be helpful to you to allow separation from him, and could feel like a healing, gentle thing to do.  If you've got it packed up in a way it can be given to him without embarrassing him or making a big deal about it, saying that you thought he might want his things, that could work.  It also shows that you are willing to let go with love, which, paradoxically might make him feel less threatened and wanting to come back to you.
My personal experience, and I've heard similar stories from some others, is that my pwBPD's ire was almost exclusively reserved for me.  I got 90% of the nastiness.  Other members report that their pwBPD dishes it out to everyone.  Every pwBPD is unique.
It's been long enough since I read it that I can't remember the psychological explanation, but yes, pwBPD often have a very hard time seeing their responsibility for things and tend to blame others.  You are the closest, so you get the lion's share of the blame.  This tends to be a persistent issue.
One potential explanation is the psychological phenomenon called "projection."  They project all of their bad feelings about themselves onto their partner.  A related issue is "lack of differentiation."  That means that they have trouble understanding the boundaries between them and other people.  You and he are one person, so if he hates himself, he hates you.
Yes, strong attempts to separate are common, and the separation can last a long while.  Very quick recycles are also common.  As I mentioned, every pwBPD is unique, so our members have a variety of experiences.

It can be especially tough on members who bond with a pwBPD relatively early in their dating lives.  It makes it hard to have a yardstick to measure things by.  Do you mind if I ask about your relationship experience before you met him?

RC

Hi RC,

I need to figure out how to individually quote but until then I’ll keep my replies in paragraphs in the order of yours!

I’m not trying to be dramatic about it at all. Last time I went to see him for the last time, he took it as now or never I suppose. I was ready to walk out for good at that point because he had made it clear that’s what he wanted and I really needed to heal. I am not good at being in an emotional limbo aka maybe he’ll come back maybe he won’t. I’m either all in or I need to heal. So in some ways, I’m hoping seeing him will give me a clue as to whether I can do it or not. But last time, something happened and when he saw me after all the nastiness and he tried to hide it for the first hour of the conversation, but then he came and sat next to me and asked to cuddle. However this was during a time of depression, which maybe he is still in... .but this time he’s trying very hard to make it very clear he’s over me by blatantly ignoring my whatsapp, blocking, unfollowing, I think attempting to go out with coworkers, and now I suppose posting random meaningless pictures. It’s bizarre and it’s almosf like maybe it’s him trying to convince himself. Meh.
I get the brunt of literally all his ___. Although when he talks to people he’s a sarcastic and dark and blunt person, and can come off as unbothered or uncaring, he doesn’t project the ire onto other people. He had told me stuff like I don’t matter anymore, accused me of being the one that gets angry all the time and has no emotional regulation, has told me he just doesn’t care about me anymore and etc. I’m literallt the only person he has in his life and even before I left to take the MCAT he said he trusted me and felt the most safe with me than Anyone else. His parents are absolute garbage which explains the probable  issues with BPD for him. Weirdly enough he did say he felt like we were too intertwined with our lives not being separate. I didn’t feel it being true because I have an outside network, but maybe for him because he only had me he felt that way.
I’m not sure how long this cycle will last. I realized from being on here that the devaluation process started a month ago, went into idealization again, and then snapped back into devaluation once I left to take the MCAT. Sadly he never went back to idealization and went the route of emotional dissociation. I’m just worried this is a complete discard... .How do you know the difference?

Honestly this was my first real love, relationship, and firsts of everything. It was the same for him too which made it more special.

Thank you for being so patient and understanding and for being a listening ear. I greatly appreciate it!

[alexvidaa]

i think youve made this clear.

overpursuing this would push anyone in his position further away. are you prepared for that?

im not sure "the way it is" is limited to those two outcomes. giving space often gives the other party the room to get to baseline and more inclined to reach out.

I understand what you’re saying, however, my mental health matters just as much as his does. My anxiety is poorly controlled right now because I can’t be in the emotional limbo of “what if” for long. If I go see him I won’t be making a scene. Just politely giving his stuff back and seeing if I can talk to him calmly without it being emotionally charged. Also I don’t know when I’d ever have the chance to randomly go up to the city  again so it’s kind of like now or never for me. It’ll give me the chance to make the decision to completely move on, or if we can talk and decide to meet up in a month or two then maybe. But it doesn’t seem realistic with How he currently is. I’m not prepared for any of this, whatsoever. I really thought we were back on track for a good while until this popped up and threw me off. It seems very unpredictable anyways

[once removed]

I am not good at being in an emotional limbo aka maybe he’ll come back maybe he won’t. I’m either all in or I need to heal.

i can very much appreciate this. my breakup, at the time, felt sort of ambiguous to me... .i wasnt sure whether the door was closed or not. my every instinct and impulse at the time, was to reach out.

good mental health is about making difficult choices, often the most difficult choices.

Honestly this was my first real love, relationship, and firsts of everything.

breakups hurt, a lot. the person on the receiving end often feels blindsided, has a slew of questions, and just wants to reverse the pain. the way he went about this one obviously hurts. the information youve heard subsequently adds to the pain.

in the process of that pain, those questions, we often have a tendency of acting on impulse in ways that, if we want to reconcile the relationship, actually hurt the chances... .reinforce the other persons decision to breakup, and even increase our pain.

my suggestion, if you want to reconcile the relationship, is not to do those things. to not act on impulse or emotion.

youre hurting, and you have let him know it. its understandable. from his perspective (he wants space), it looks like jilted lover stuff, and reinforces his decision. hes blocked, and has been otherwise non responsive. the signal is clear. if you try to get over those walls, he will erect higher walls.

that understandably heightens feelings of rejection for you, which as i mentioned, we tend to want to reverse. so letting him have it, telling him how you feel hes acted badly, or returning his things (which, from his perspective will look like "fine then, im rejecting you") can feel like a good idea at the time.

i would suggest that not only will it backfire, but it will increase your bad feelings.

returning his stuff is not a bad move - in fact its a necessary one, at a certain point. right now, returning his stuff and trying to get him to talk to you will escalate the conflict.

[alexvidaa]

i can very much appreciate this. my breakup, at the time, felt sort of ambiguous to me... .i wasnt sure whether the door was closed or not. my every instinct and impulse at the time, was to reach out.

good mental health is about making difficult choices, often the most difficult choices.

breakups hurt, a lot. the person on the receiving end often feels blindsided, has a slew of questions, and just wants to reverse the pain. the way he went about this one obviously hurts. the information youve heard subsequently adds to the pain.

in the process of that pain, those questions, we often have a tendency of acting on impulse in ways that, if we want to reconcile the relationship, actually hurt the chances... .reinforce the other persons decision to breakup, and even increase our pain.

my suggestion, if you want to reconcile the relationship, is not to do those things. to not act on impulse or emotion.

youre hurting, and you have let him know it. its understandable. from his perspective (he wants space), it looks like jilted lover stuff, and reinforces his decision. hes blocked, and has been otherwise non responsive. the signal is clear. if you try to get over those walls, he will erect higher walls.

that understandably heightens feelings of rejection for you, which as i mentioned, we tend to want to reverse. so letting him have it, telling him how you feel hes acted badly, or returning his things (which, from his perspective will look like "fine then, im rejecting you") can feel like a good idea at the time.

i would suggest that not only will it backfire, but it will increase your bad feelings.

returning his stuff is not a bad move - in fact its a necessary one, at a certain point. right now, returning his stuff and trying to get him to talk to you will escalate the conflict.

were you ever reached out to again?

You have very good points and i can understand them, and that point of view. I think deep down inside I'm scared that if I don't go to see him, that I'll never talk to him again or never get the chance to see him again. Or that he'll actually forget about me. I hate how this is making me feel pathetic and worrying about these types of things, but I am.

If I don't go to see him, when would be the appropriate time to give his stuff back and to try to talk to him? If he didn't see me or talk to me for weeks or months, would he still love me or think about me or have feelings? I'm not too experienced with relationships to begin with, and I suppose my first super serious one I got into ended up being a special case, but I just am unsure about everything.

Is the fact that he hasn't deleted any of our pictures on instagram or Facebook a good thing? Or the fact that he hasn't completely blocked me from whatsapp?

If I were to even say anything to him, it wouldn't be to let him have it or to tell him how bad he is. That'd definitely lead him to push away more. i've found that sometimes the only way to talk him out of devaluation is to talk to him calmly like a child and say lots of nice things about him. I suppose whenever I went to end it for good that must've been an outlier because from every other way he has acted, I would've thought he'd be done for good.

[once removed]

were you ever reached out to again?

not really. she jumped immediately into a new relationship. there were a couple of indirect communications, where twice she sent a facebook friend request and retracted it a few hours later. there was a lot of damage done between us and not much room to reconnect. it was many years ago now, but to this day, im grateful for how strong i looked (i emphasize "looked", because i was a basket case), and that i didnt over pursue.

You have very good points and i can understand them, and that point of view. I think deep down inside I'm scared that if I don't go to see him, that I'll never talk to him again or never get the chance to see him again. Or that he'll actually forget about me. I hate how this is making me feel pathetic and worrying about these types of things, but I am.

its very, very uncomfortable to live with those fears, i know. ones mind will tend to come up with all kinds of rationalizations and justifications to do what usually works against us. even in a worst case scenario, if you can learn to overcome this, it will take you very far in terms of how you feel later, and what you take into future relationships.

i know that we are anonymous strangers, but we have been there. we wont steer you toward stupid advice (or tell you what to do), and we are very mindful of your goals here. the big picture, and the consequences are easier to see from 30000 ft up. in this case, the likeliest way of getting him to communicate with you is to give him space. things may be bad right now, and he may really want that space, but its human nature, once the dust has settled, to not want things to end on a bad note, and/or have second thoughts, perhaps even more so with someone with BPD traits... .they hate to be the bad guy or seen in a bad light.

If I don't go to see him, when would be the appropriate time to give his stuff back and to try to talk to him?

the hope is that he would reach out before that happens. obviously, you cant and shouldnt wait for that forever, and i certainly would not wait months. id wait 2-3 weeks. at that point, its the self respecting, and polite thing to do to exchange/return belongings. i would recommend against using it as a method to talk to him, its a mixed signal, and youre likely to get hurt, if you havent already heard from him. its a stronger move to simply return the belongings. its also possible he would reach out after that if he sees no strings attached.

what sorts of belongings are we talking about? are they things you are certain he would want back? are you able to mail them?

Is the fact that he hasn't deleted any of our pictures on instagram or Facebook a good thing? Or the fact that he hasn't completely blocked me from whatsapp?

its not a bad thing. its hard to read into or determine significance. if he had deleted them, or blocked you from whatsapp, i dont think that would be significant either. people do that sort of thing in a huff. then they calm down and usually undo it.

[alexvidaa]

its very, very uncomfortable to live with those fears, i know. ones mind will tend to come up with all kinds of rationalizations and justifications to do what usually works against us. even in a worst case scenario, if you can learn to overcome this, it will take you very far in terms of how you feel later, and what you take into future relationships.

i know that we are anonymous strangers, but we have been there. we wont steer you toward stupid advice (or tell you what to do), and we are very mindful of your goals here. the big picture, and the consequences are easier to see from 30000 ft up. in this case, the likeliest way of getting him to communicate with you is to give him space. things may be bad right now, and he may really want that space, but its human nature, once the dust has settled, to not want things to end on a bad note, and/or have second thoughts, perhaps even more so with someone with BPD traits... .they hate to be the bad guy or seen in a bad light.

the hope is that he would reach out before that happens. obviously, you cant and shouldnt wait for that forever, and i certainly would not wait months. id wait 2-3 weeks. at that point, its the self respecting, and polite thing to do to exchange/return belongings. i would recommend against using it as a method to talk to him, its a mixed signal, and youre likely to get hurt, if you havent already heard from him. its a stronger move to simply return the belongings. its also possible he would reach out after that if he sees no strings attached.

what sorts of belongings are we talking about? are they things you are certain he would want back? are you able to mail them?

its not a bad thing. its hard to read into or determine significance. if he had deleted them, or blocked you from whatsapp, i dont think that would be significant either. people do that sort of thing in a huff. then they calm down and usually undo it.

I truly appreciate your advice and perspective here. The fears are truly getting the best of me at this point, as I have to take gabapentin to fall asleep every night now. AKA my anxiety is killing me right now which is something I'm trying to better control. I think if I learn to handle it better, i'll be better off in the future and with other relationships too.

I asked him last time what would have happened if I would have not came to see him. I asked if he would've came back for me and he said he would have. He was full of shame and guilt and i really think that is what held him back from going back with me sooner: he wanted to be with me but said he couldn't at the time. Now, it seems to me that he's too full of shame and guilt to come back right now because of how awful he was to me when he ended it, and maybe that's why he has to convince himself of another reality. It's different because instead of isolating himself, it seems like he's putting most of his time into work and funny enough spends more time outside of his apartment now than when I lived there. Now reading up more about BPD, I feel like i fell for a trap whenever he was breaking up with me: saying the worst things possible to me to push me away and get a reaction, just to maybe use that was a way to reinforce his bad perception of me. Live and learn, but the emotional manipulation isn't worth it to me. If that's the case, does he really see himself as a bad guy here?

I'm trying my best not to contact him, just in moments of weakness are where i'm most vulnerable to doing so. So far, each time I've caved I've just been completely ignored so next time I won't do it. If on the off chance I don't hear from him in those 2-3 weeks, is it just best to pack up and move on emotionally? Also, if I went to see him, I would want to say just some nice closure things. Nothing crazy, but just for my own self. Maybe the more I tell myself it's over, the easier this will all be.

Also some things I have of his are his suitcase, a couple of his notebooks, shirts, socks (sounds dumb but that guy is insanely crazy about missing socks). Not sure if he wants them back but I know I certainly don't want them. Maybe he wants the suitcase back because he doesn't have another one? either way not something I can mail. Also I realize I left things there that I want back too... .things that I don't know if I'll get back considering he wont even answer a message right now.

[macarena]

Has your person talked to you?

No, not yet. It’s been a month since our last meaningful conversation, and I am currently trying to give him (and the situation) some space. We haven’t talked but I see small improvements (we work together): as of this week, he is not completely ignoring me anymore and there have been a couple of small steps he took that probably mean he feels a bit more ok now.
I’m still blocked on WhatsApp though.

[alexvidaa]

No, not yet. It’s been a month since our last meaningful conversation, and I am currently trying to give him (and the situation) some space. We haven’t talked but I see small improvements (we work together): as of this week, he is not completely ignoring me anymore and there have been a couple of small steps he took that probably mean he feels a bit more ok now.
I’m still blocked on WhatsApp though.

That’s really rough. How long have you been waiting this out?

[macarena]

That’s really rough. How long have you been waiting this out?

It is. And it takes me a lot of effort not to keep trying to talk. But it seems like stepping back is starting to work somewhat.

We had a difficult conversation in the beginning of July - so almost 3 months. It hasn’t been complete no contact but the interactions were short and not very successful and there was some ignoring as well. He only blocked me at the end of August because I was trying to tell him that not speaking was hurting me and I also cried and was emotional (shouldn’t have done but well, couldn’t help it), and I guess (I can only be guessing) my emotions coupled with his feelings of guilt/shame etc. made him build more walls.

[alexvidaa]

It is. And it takes me a lot of effort not to keep trying to talk. But it seems like stepping back is starting to work somewhat.

We had a difficult conversation in the beginning of July - so almost 3 months. It hasn’t been complete no contact but the interactions were short and not very successful and there was some ignoring as well. He only blocked me at the end of August because I was trying to tell him that not speaking was hurting me and I also cried and was emotional (shouldn’t have done but well, couldn’t help it), and I guess (I can only be guessing) my emotions coupled with his feelings of guilt/shame etc. made him build more walls.

I have the same difficulties. It’s reallt hard not to talk and not to break down. For so long he was the one who I could count on to help me calm down because his voice, his singing, and reassurance was key in helping me with my anxiety. It’s not even something I wanted to be accustomed to but he assured me that I could count on him and no matter what happened that he’d be there for me ( unfortunate now!). When he first went off 3 weeks ago about wanting to break up or take a break, I cried for 4 hours straight. He says he can’t stand to see me cry because I think it brings out more feelings of guilt and shame but because I also get so distraught and catastrophize, my upset feelings can last for a while. After 2 hours of his walks being built up he caved and came back to his normal caring self and tried to comfort me.

I’m personally not willing to wait for that long for him to decide whether he wants to be with me let along talk to me. I find that focusing on the positive and remaining emotionally neutral as possible usually works and not falling into the bait of them trying to get you upset. Buttttttt I’m not always that emotionally capable, clearly

[once removed]

If on the off chance I don't hear from him in those 2-3 weeks, is it just best to pack up and move on emotionally?

this is a very personal decision. i think there is some prudence in being open to that possibility in general, because the ability to make hard decisions, be emotionally capable and prepared for walking away, can be a healthy one that comes from a place of strength. we will support you in whatever path you take. for so long as you want to reconcile the relationship, we are going to offer the most constructive, healthiest advice and support that we can with your goals in mind. being in a state of "reversing a breakup" is usually, in the immediate, about not making things worse. its a delicate situation. long term, its about us... .letting go of the old relationship, learning more about ourselves and what makes us tick, and should the relationship reconcile, going into it with a healthier,  more mature, very different game plan.

my anxiety is killing me right now which is something I'm trying to better control. I think if I learn to handle it better, i'll be better off in the future and with other relationships too.

have you checked in with a doctor or therapist for either a short term or long term treatment plan? i live with anxiety in relationships too. there are therapeutic techniques that can help us manage it constructively. if you look at the Tools section at the top of the board, Wisemind is the first of the tools that we teach.

does he really see himself as a bad guy here?

right now? maybe, maybe not. sometimes when you blow up at a person, it feels good for a while. its a relief. hes not living with the pressures of the relationship right now, another relief. the fact is the two of you have a significant history. no one wants that to end on a bad note. you dont want to have blown up at someone you have that history with and have that be the last impression they had of you. inevitably, you feel badly about how you handled it. inevitably, when they go quiet, you start to wonder, and have doubts. "has she moved on?". "does she hate me?". that sort of thing.

Also some things I have of his are his suitcase, a couple of his notebooks, shirts, socks (sounds dumb but that guy is insanely crazy about missing socks). Not sure if he wants them back but I know I certainly don't want them. Maybe he wants the suitcase back because he doesn't have another one?

okay, so not stuff he desperately needs right now. tabling it for a few weeks seems reasonable to me. probably, in those weeks, youll be on steadier emotional ground and decision making process... .things will be easier and clearer.

what do you think?

[macarena]

For so long he was the one who I could count on

Same... .he was and still is the first I want to share joys and sorrows with.

I’m personally not willing to wait for that long for him to decide whether he wants to be with me let along talk to me.

I’m not usually someone  who waits long, but this person is just too important to me.
It’s a very personal decision and whatever you decide is valid.

[alexvidaa]

this is a very personal decision. i think there is some prudence in being open to that possibility in general, because the ability to make hard decisions, be emotionally capable and prepared for walking away, can be a healthy one that comes from a place of strength. we will support you in whatever path you take. for so long as you want to reconcile the relationship, we are going to offer the most constructive, healthiest advice and support that we can with your goals in mind. being in a state of "reversing a breakup" is usually, in the immediate, about not making things worse. its a delicate situation. long term, its about us... .letting go of the old relationship, learning more about ourselves and what makes us tick, and should the relationship reconcile, going into it with a healthier,  more mature, very different game plan.

It's a very hard thing for me to deal with anyways because I want to immediately make it better but that doesn't seem to be able to help. It's a weird position between trying to protect myself but feeling like the most immediate thing to do is get back with him to stop the anxiety and the pain. I would get back together with him if he agreed to get the help he needed because I think a healthy relationship at this point without him getting any help would be close to impossible and would continue to be rocky. I want it to be reversed so bad because I'm willing to bet that he made the decision in one of his pissy moods he gets into, and then locked himself into that mindset to "remain strong." He will see trying to get back with me as a weakness even though I'm sure he wants to. I'm sure that he still loves me. These are just things I'm not sure he would ever admit to, without me asking.

have you checked in with a doctor or therapist for either a short term or long term treatment plan? i live with anxiety in relationships too. there are therapeutic techniques that can help us manage it constructively. if you look at the Tools section at the top of the board, Wisemind is the first of the tools that we teach.

I was seeing a therapist back in may for my anxiety and ADHD, but when I moved to the city in the summer I could not find any therapist that was covered under my insurance and that didnt charge 200+ dollars/session. I'm back in an area where I can receive that care again and I'm excited to get back to it.

right now? maybe, maybe not. sometimes when you blow up at a person, it feels good for a while. its a relief. hes not living with the pressures of the relationship right now, another relief. the fact is the two of you have a significant history. no one wants that to end on a bad note. you dont want to have blown up at someone you have that history with and have that be the last impression they had of you. inevitably, you feel badly about how you handled it. inevitably, when they go quiet, you start to wonder, and have doubts. "has she moved on?". "does she hate me?". that sort of thing.

I feel the same way. If anything, even if we did not stay in a relationship for now, I'd still want to sit down and have a mature conversation about it. I think that I'm at a point where I've sat back and have tried to see his point of view, and maybe why he has chosen to go this route again (BPD symptoms, the stressors of the summer, the stress of starting school again (which IMO is probably the biggest thing and the trigger because this all started around when he started school!). I'm not so sure he is though. If he tries really hard he can put up the mean person front and things get no where. because he'll hopefully eventually feel bad about how he treated me, is that why ignoring is the best thing to do here?

okay, so not stuff he desperately needs right now. tabling it for a few weeks seems reasonable to me. probably, in those weeks, youll be on steadier emotional ground and decision making process... .things will be easier and clearer.

what do you think?

It's not stuff anyone needs back right now I suppose. I think in a week or so I'll steady out. still be hurt, but be steady and more logical about it. Interestingly enough my friend who has BPD herself told me that people with BPD in her own experiences need to be told straight up what they're doing and that it's not okay. She thought that I was coddling him by being so nice about his past and things like that. She even thinks that his behavior is awful and I should just leave him now because he's not taking the proper steps to truly better himself.

I wish that I had the timeline to make those things happen. Like ideally going back on a whim in 2-3 weeks would be better. Unfortunately my timeline and a secure place to stay is only going to be definite in a little bit more than a week. So it still has me feeling like it's now or never.

I'm not sure if you had the opportunity to read the first saga I wrote out 8 months ago  but basically when I went back to him to give his stuff back his feelings towards me became undeniable and somehow he reasoned with that. Seeing me face to face was almost lethal towards the walls and cold persona he puts forth... .however... .that was kind of after a riffraff of semi getting back together at the end of january and then him breaking up with me a week and a half later, and then me going to say the final goodbye a week and a half after that (so a month total). I'm not sure if this is completely different or not. My strategy (if you can even call it that) worked in the past, but they were kind of done out of exhaustion from the ambiguity of not knowing what was actually going to occur.

I'm at a very important point in my life right now. I'm trying to apply to medical school and law school with chances that I will need to take the MCAT and LSAT again from not doing so well due to emotional stuff. I love him with everything I have and the emotional connection we have is so strong but I don't can't afford the time or energy anymore to continue to ruminate/catastrophize about the future and the like.

[alexvidaa]

Same... .he was and still is the first I want to share joys and sorrows with.

I’m not usually someone  who waits long, but this person is just too important to me.
It’s a very personal decision and whatever you decide is valid.

Mine still is too. We have an obscene amount of inside jokes and i still find memes and things like that that I still want to share! He's my go to for when I'm super anxious and he knows just what to do to calm me down.

This person is important for me too. It's just difficult to conceptualize that someone who is so important to you, and at one point you were just as important to them, would do everything in their power to make you feel unimportant. It's a crappy feeling for sure. I think that's my thing, everytime I begin to feel okay with everything because I know it's a feat of his mental health right now, it starts to sit unsettling because I think he's aware that what he's doing is hurtful and he doesn't want to try to do anything about it.

[juju2]

My heart goes out to you.

I have been waiting to give his things back, and every time I believe that i have the strength to do that, i get overwhelmed.  Its been over a year, and lately, when i told him (we email) was getting a storage unit, he asked to call me, explained a lot, to me, and agreed to wait longer.   He has a serious mental illness.  I dont know which part is him and which part is his illness. 

Keep reaching out here.   There is wisdom and caring here, people who want to share, and maybe something you read each day will help... .

one thing i know for myself, is to not make any quick knee jerk reactions or actions.  This has been the hardest lesson in patience.   I go to al anon too, and that helps me.  Even if it is just for that one hour.   

hang in there!