Is 'raging' back w/ NC enough to keep the BPD away for good?

[WildcatNaPillowcase]

I am trying to nutshell this. It started becoming rather long!

May 2009 Started dating a high school friend. I hadn’t been dating  anyone for two years after my divorce. No problem getting dates, just not something I had time for. He was someone I had thought about from time to time. Although, just a friend, he treated me like a queen. He was heartbroken when he confessed how he felt about me, but I chose my current boyfriend to marry back then.

When he arrived in my life, it seemed like such a blessing. We were very close friends in HS, and I knew his family. I feel that because of this “past” I gave him a bit more girth than I would have someone I had “just met”.

I started noticing issues 3 months later in August. However, these issues I attributed to an uncomfortably level of bringing his daughter into the relationship. I had a sneaking suspicion it was too soon after his divorce, but it seemed that it was an isolated incident.

Not to long after that I started noticing jealousy, and possessiveness issues here and there. Which would increase. I would put my foot down, and he seemed to stop. (Looking back now, I think he just found a way to hide these feelings from me). An argument turned full blown fight. I started noticing the cycle of abuse in the late fall. I’ve read the stages that most non-BPDs go through and it fits me to a “t”.

By the next May, after the third “I’m leaving” tantrum (Initially sparked to this based on some sort of assumption that because I had not given him attention, I must be breaking up with him). I told him, you walk out that door - you’re not coming back.

Emails, texts, phone calls etc… Begging me to please allow him to be that “man” for both me and my child. I told him I loved him, but this behavior is completely unacceptable. The only way we can move forward is if he started to see a counselor. He agreed.  From May until last week, everything seemed to be going smoothly, other than an incident with an old male friend of mine who was being shipped off to Iraq. He called to “say goodbyes” in which my boyfriend was sitting right there. He made a big scene and embarrassed me, along with my friend. Who excused himself off the phone. Of course, this was discussed in counseling. He admitted to being insecure. That he would work on it. About that time his “drama” filled family started with their games from him. Along with other financial stressors… he started acting funny. I think that after the incident with my friend in June, I started the inner directed stage… soon after… my detachment began. (I did not even realize these emotional issues I personally was dealing with were actually “stages”, but I was very relieved to find this)

I tried to break up with him last week. I had caught him in a lie, and really, I knew I just did not trust him. His “actions” were quite the opposite. He seemed to dote over me. It was nothing from day one to get a call/text in the morning, mid morning, lunchtime, afternoon, and finally on his way home. Which was another source of contention between us. I explained, although I loved that he loved me so much; I had work to do! Sometimes he would act as if his feeling were hurt. He would dote on me, yet when it came time to buckle down… it never seemed to be forthcoming. The relationship seemed “off balance”.  Initially, I attributed it to having two separate families, homes and lives… trying to merge… but it never seemed to happen.

He became very angry when I told him I thought we should cool it for a while to attend to things we needed to. That I had a difficult time believing him and I wanted to have time to think things through. But then he emailed my entire family telling them I “had broken off the relationship with him, and he will always love them as if they were his family.” Of course, The calls, emails, etc… started from the family, as that they didn’t know about our “personal problems“ they just saw this man who was incredibly in love with me. Sure enough, I started thinking “Maybe they know something I don’t?” I wavered again. So I let him back in. I love him. I agreed to going to his counselor that week to “talk this through“. Secretly, I was hoping for “support” to solve this.

The next day, I found out there was “more” to the lie, and the “lie” that caused me to rethink my feeling toward him, was much more involved than I though. I started to gently tell him, if he felt he needed to lie to me, then maybe he needed to re-think things for himself. He obviously couldn’t trust me, and that’s not good for him either, I started to tell him that we should at least take a break for a while… No matter how hard I tried to keep this “on track” this turned into a rage. He threw a fit, grabbed his loaded gun and headed off to “kill” himself. I don’t know what happened to me, other than shock. I begged him not to do this, and tried desperately to clam him down. He did. This led to his confessions to me of the heinous nature of the abuse he experienced and suffered as a child. I agreed that I would go to counseling the next day with him. I was mortified. I really just was afraid he wouldn’t go, and would do something. I figured they would know what to do.

I went to counseling with him. In which, both his counselor and I found out he was lying to both of us. He lied to his counselor to get approval for something he wanted to do. Without telling the whole story. Then he lied to me and used his counselor to say it was OK. When I went into the session by myself with his counselor I was asked to do nothing until next session where we could all be in the same place. In this way, all cards would be put on the table.

I agreed.

That night when we arrived home, he kept asking how he could “earn” trust. I told him it is not so easy.

Long story short, the night was filled with Abuse, suicide threats, my life being threatened (with his gun) and finally, after 24 hours of this “condensed” roller-coaster ride, I lost it. I told him to get out, I hate him, I never want to see him again., He threw me across the room in front of my child and walked out the door. I have not heard from him for a week now.

I spoke with his counselor the next day and was told to cut all contact with him. He had been lying to both of us and it was just this Friday, after 15 months of dating, that I was told he had a diagnosis of PTSD and BiPolar with other tendencies. I had only known he suffered “depression” once in a while after his divorce. (which later to find that he took pills and was drinking and almost lost his life causing him to become institutionalized)

The Dr. wasn’t ready to diagnosis with BPD. Fear of abandonment is a HUGE deal for him. But when I read this site, it is literally how our relationship “worked”. Every holiday was a nightmare, stress seemed to freak him out, lies, manipulations, etc... Being the independent woman I am,, this freaked him out. He kept with this fear some “shark” would be “waiting” for him to “screw up” and take me away from him.

He never put his hands on me until the end. I did find on his phone that the Sunday that he emailed my family to play emotional blackmail with him, he actually had physically met another woman friend of his at a restaurant. I had never heard of. He insisted he wasn‘t “cheating“ on me... I am not sure how long that was going on because he seemed to be spending every waking minute with me if not at work. (He went with me everywhere. I thought was normal until the past few months; it became uncomfortable) However, I can say it ties into strange behavior since June. But I do remember about this same time in June him talking about this woman. I could only assume. She was calling him “honey” in the emails, and the text said for him to leave and “come back later”. No telling.

I had always been kind, honest and fair to him. I never did anything to hurt him, or exploit him. Until that night I lost my temper. It even surprised me. It was just this overwhelming need to stick up for myself. I guess the anger kicked in. All the lies, manipulations, the rabbit trails I had to follow to get to the truth… my whole body started uncontrollably shaking and I was enraged that he even had my son looking up to him. The mommy bear in me kicked in. Protectiveness. I snapped. I didn’t hit him, but I was pretty mean. (I am surprised that I really didn’t seem to be scared of him!)

I did not file a police report on him, I guess initially, because I was fearful he was really going to end his life. The counselor also led me to believe it was just a temper tantrum. I know he‘s involved with a modification to custody in his divorce and I feared this would hinder that... However, his counselor knows what occurred.  Without delving into too much detail, FOR ME. FOR THIS SITUATION. I did the best thing in not contacting the police. I WOULD NOT ADVICE anyone else to NOT contact authorities. I just wanted to be done. Filing charges at this point would just keep me in “bed” with him.

My entire friends and family have blocked him on social networking sites, etc… as have I. I have contacted his family during the episode and after. (Quite enlightening people. The same people pushing us to get married also decided to tell me that I should stick to my guns. This happens all the time with him. Next time he may really hurt me” Wasn’t that nice? Don’t bother telling me your son has a serious illness! UGH)

I do not wish to call him (ok, yeah here and there while dealing with the grief; anger, sadness, sorrow etc… while sorting things out in my head, but my better judgment seems to take over, I am thanking God for that.)

That being said. Is he gone? I remember the shocked look on his face when I turned into “medusa” and started screaming explicative’s on how worthless he was etc… (trust me, I have NO idea where that anger/rage came from still! I had NEVER done this, or even thought this with him!

This time, I have not heard from him. No texts, calls, emails etc…  I am reading quite a bit about the potential for significant others coming back again? They don’t take “no” for an answer.

I will call the police if he tries, but I am wondering if this is enough to “get him away”? Can I exhale I guess? I never want my child to have to see him again, especially witness something so scary,

[Benny]

Phew! Thats a hell of a story and I feel for both you and your son in having to go through it all.

Im not sure that your raging at him will be enough to stop him trying to reengage with you but its highly likely that he will try.

Take any steps you deem necessary to protect yourself and your son and if it means calling the cops then do it and remember that you didnt cause his problems and your not responsible for his emotional dysregulation.

Take care of you and yours

Benny

[innerspirit]

Hi WNP -- well the simplistic answer is if your X gets his emotional needs met by someone new, it might relieve you of his contacting you again.  (This may be more true of a narcissist than a borderline.)

I don't think it will be your rage that influences whether he stays away.  I think it will depend on whether and how the drama plays again in his head.

I was shocked at the fury that my X could ignite in me, but for all the huge drama, once it was over, things almost completely disappeared.  It's a mind-blowing feeling that all that intensity can leave nothing in its place.

I think you can exhale, because you are doing the right thing, maintaining no-contact and giving careful thought to what steps you would need to take should he break that.   Beyond that, know that you have done what you need to do to protect yourself and your child -- and try to begin to heal just in the present moment.

[Disgruntled]

It really truely amazes me how all of the stories on this board are soo much alike.  I went through this exact same thing.  I spent Christmas Eve with her pointing a gun at her head.  She literally said she would kill herself and make it look like I did it.  I eventually refused to come back over until the gun was out of the house.  Finding messages from other women... .Yup did that too.  As far as your reaction goes... .I read somewhere than an emotional reaction to an abusive situation... .does not make you an abuser.  You simply just had an emotional reaction to all the bs he put you through... .my guess is it scared him if you had never done this before.  He is not done trying to contact you... .it is just the calm before the storm... .he is just regrouping because your reaction scared him.

[WildcatNaPillowcase]

Benny & InnerSpirit!

Thank you so much for your replies. I agree, after reading through the site it seems that a part of me hopes he has "moved on". He has never gone this long without contact (apologies, guilt etc... ), so I am leaning toward the idea that he has either found another "mark" to start the game over, or he "gets it". (I feel a bit selfish for not warning the next person, but I can only be responsible for my child and myself here. I don’t want to be a target!) With now knowing about his past (marriage and other relationships) and the abuse there too... .(His ex tricked him into a divorce and has a restraining order for adult abuse and stalking) Not to mention, a clearer perspective on the severe dysfunction in his immediate family (His mother posted on his site an encouragement 5 hours after he beat me underneath a status that he was “Leaving for four days of fun and sun“. Her response ‘Go have fun and forget all the negativity here! Give everything to God, he will show you the way.”) Totally in denial, in addition, the dynamics between his parents and himself are just as dysfunctional. He lives with them in light of the divorce. Although, he claims they “drive him crazy” and “he wants away”, it seems to be a cycle with all of them. Emotional manipulation, blackmail, etc…

I am worried. He claims that he was heartbroken when I married my ex. I left him 20 years ago and I am leaving him now. He even relayed to me that he followed my life over the years (knew about the birth of my children, sent me a card on my wedding day - signed "a friend", (we could never figure out who sent that!), but really not having any close personal friends to "hear" these things from etc... )

I think he "beefed" that up to manipulate me (proof of undying love!) He never showed any “threat” like this, but I did have the feeling of the cycle of abuse. As I said, simple disagreements turned into rages that had him storming out of the house. Of course, saying he was leaving because it was “what I (me) wanted” when that never even crossed my mind. ? Turning everything on me. I would always call him on his $hit. “No, you are responsible for this”.

His counselor seems to think my child and are under "No Threat" at all whatsoever from him. However, they cannot tell me for sure if he will try to contact me. They “don’t know”. Since we are not together due to HIPPA they cannot tell me anything. But they did tell me that they are required by law to tell me and notify authorities if they believe him to be a threat. This helps.

But he is SO GOOD at this. Obviously, the counselor had been seeing him and me on occasion with him and had no idea I did not know about his diagnosis! Also, that they NEVER thought he would do this either! Yeah, this makes me feel really secure.

I am struggling with so many things. Such as, Did I ever see sanity in this? Did he ever love me? Why did he do SOO much for me, even out of the way things? Were these just a slight of hand to set up for the bad behaviors? How could I have become so deeply involved with a man that was an emotional child? The counselor seems to think I'm "normal" with no issues of co-dependence. I set boundaries through this and kept them; he just wiggled around them. But it still bothers me that somehow I maintained a relationship with someone so un-healthy.

I knew at one point, where I seemed to feel more like a “mommy” than a girlfriend, there was a huge problem.

As far as narcissist, I am not really getting this from him? He would admit his faults, but of course, with hidden things. He seemed like a man who was dealing with his problems, rather than denial. However, the hiding…? I am guessing I would have seen more controlling behaviors than I did?

I am hoping since his “true self” is now exposed to everyone in our lives (I‘ve got the incredible bruises to prove it); he will stay away. I guess it will take some time before I get through this part of it.

(Sad thing is that I do vacillate when I think of the pure pain I had seen in his face when he said “you don’t deserve this, there is something wrong with me. I don’t know how to fix it.” It is heart wrenching.)

I loved this man. If it were just me, I am not sure if I wouldn’t try to love the disorders, but it is not just me I am thinking about.

[WildcatNaPillowcase]

It really truely amazes me how all of the stories on this board are soo much alike.  I went through this exact same thing.  I spent Christmas Eve with her pointing a gun at her head.  She literally said she would kill herself and make it look like I did it.  I eventually refused to come back over until the gun was out of the house.  Finding messages from other women... .Yup did that too.  As far as your reaction goes... .I read somewhere than an emotional reaction to an abusive situation... .does not make you an abuser.  You simply just had an emotional reaction to all the bs he put you through... .my guess is it scared him if you had never done this before.  He is not done trying to contact you... .it is just the calm before the storm... .he is just regrouping because your reaction scared him.

Bless your heart! I understand. His threats of suicide were directly related to the idea that he had failed me, something was wrong with him, and it hurt too bad to lose me. Awful feeling. I spent the week in shock I think. I did not cry until Wednesday, started being shaky Tuesday. Today, I'm more on the anger side. I did feel guilty about the “raging”. I hate the idea that I let someone push me “out of control”. But honestly, it was an uncontrollable feeling. It scared even me.

Even with everyone knowing what he has done he will still try to contact me? Even now being exposed to his counselor, my family who he thought he had snowed? (His counselor “was” going to testify for him to get custody of his daughter. Had all of us convinced that his ex was the problem. She played into his façade without even knowing it. Looking back, it was obviously the reason for her anger and exerting control with their daughter, child support, etc…. Typical for an abused spouse who is finally after 13 years…holding all the cards. This was all rather enlightening that direction too!)

[2010]

That being said. Is he gone?

Only you can say for sure. It is up to you. Do yourself a favor and get a professional confidante. One that will have your best interests at heart. This FOG that you're in can muddle your thoughts, and you need someone to be firm and guide you through this so you dont do more damage to yourself.

You've already allowed abuse to happen and rather than put boundaries in place- you are hoping that he's just going to go away. You and I both know that by default that's a choice you've made to put the outcome in his hands. Until you close the door to this creep completely- he'll weasel his way back for more. And with a Gun.

Stop playing with fire. You've been roughed up, threatened with a gun and psychologically manipulated by a Man you claim has already been institutionalized.  Your polite way of keeping him from suffering any sanctions for his behavior just gives him a green light to further abuse you.  You are showing loyalty in the face of evidence that the loyalty is undeserved.

Make an appointment to talk to a therapist if you can. There has to be some reason why this abusive, manipulative behavior is normal for you.  Most Women would have run for the hills the minute they were threatened with a gun.

His counselor seems to think my child and are under "No Threat" at all whatsoever from him. However, they cannot tell me for sure if he will try to contact me. They “don’t know”. Since we are not together due to HIPPA they cannot tell me anything. But they did tell me that they are required by law to tell me and notify authorities if they believe him to be a threat. This helps.

Do not rely on HIS counselor. His counselor has no vested interest in you whatsoever. You are not his client. Get a counselor of your own- one that will tell you to take the matter seriously and get away from him. Do not delay with this- it could mean your life.  In time you will come to realize that this Man and his behaviors are not love.  You did not cause his affliction, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it. Save yourself, not him. Block all access and watch your back. 

[turtle]

Do not rely on HIS counselor. His counselor has no vested interest in you whatsoever. You are not his client. Get a counselor of your own- one that will tell you to take the matter seriously and get away from him. Do not delay with this- it could mean your life.  In time you will come to realize that this Man and his behaviors are not love.  You did not cause his affliction, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it. Save yourself, not him. Block all access and watch your back.  

ABSOLUTELY!

And... .it most likely that your "rage" scared YOU way more than it scared HIM.  He is familiar with rage - you are not.  Your reaction to him may have startled him, but it is very likely that he will test you.  That happened to me in my situation too.  When I finally got furious and stood up for myself, he seemed to get that message and he left me alone.  Like you, I had a thousand reasons why I didn't press charges for the abuse I had experienced.  The BEST thing I could have done for HIM and myself was to press charges the VERY FIRST TIME he put his hands on me.  THAT would have been a much better message to send rather then MY rage which  terrified only ME.  That kind of anger is child's play to him.  

AND... .I can tell you this... .knowing what I know now, the FIRST time my ex had a drama filled -- "I'm going to kill myself moment," I should have called 911.  I'm not equipped to handle someone who is threatening to kill themselves or anyone else!  The suicide card is one of the most manipulative cards my ex pulled and because I didn't know how to deal with it, I let that card run me around in circles way too many times.  If I had called 911 the first time THAT card was played, I might have avoided how all of this ended.

Long story short, my hellish relationship with him ended when he was hauled away from my home in handcuffs. He had held me hostage in my own home for nearly 3 days.  I was able to escape, but that was a very lucky break.  Things could have turned out very differently -- and not in a good way.

Get your own counselor, and talk with the domestic violence advocate at the Police department.  YOU need to protect YOU and you need to get very proactive about it.

Good luck wildcat -- please keep reading and posting here and doing the things necessary to take care of you.

Turtle

[innerspirit]

Please don't interpret my post as too easily dismissive of a dangerous situation.  It was just my experience that X bounced directly into another relationship -- it seemed to satisfy him enough that he didn't continue to abuse me.

Totally agree with the comments on this thread!

Do not rely on HIS counselor. His counselor has no vested interest in you whatsoever. You are not his client. Get a counselor of your own- one that will tell you to take the matter seriously and get away from him. Do not delay with this- it could mean your life.  In time you will come to realize that this Man and his behaviors are not love.  You did not cause his affliction, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it. Save yourself, not him. Block all access and watch your back. 

ABSOLUTELY!

And... .it most likely that your "rage" scared YOU way more than it scared HIM.  He is familiar with rage - you are not.  Your reaction to him may have startled him, but it is very likely that he will test you.  That happened to me in my situation too.  When I finally got furious and stood up for myself, he seemed to get that message and he left me alone.  Like you, I had a thousand reasons why I didn't press charges for the abuse I had experienced.  The BEST thing I could have done for HIM and myself was to press charges the VERY FIRST TIME he put his hands on me.  THAT would have been a much better message to send rather then MY rage which  terrified only ME.  That kind of anger is child's play to him. 

AND... .I can tell you this... .knowing what I know now, the FIRST time my ex had a drama filled -- "I'm going to kill myself moment," I should have called 911.  I'm not equipped to handle someone who is threatening to kill themselves or anyone else!  The suicide card is one of the most manipulative cards my ex pulled and because I didn't know how to deal with it, I let that card run me around in circles way too many times.  If I had called 911 the first time THAT card was played, I might have avoided how all of this ended... .

Get your own counselor, and talk with the domestic violence advocate at the Police department.  YOU need to protect YOU and you need to get very proactive about it.

[WildcatNaPillowcase]

Well. I guess I have an answer. One Week, and two days later; NEWOP. Raging back does nada.

1.) He feels guilt and remorse. Does not blame me. Taking full responsibility for his actions.

2.) He has a skewed perception of what "actually happened", in which he has accepted my side of things as truth. Shocked me that his perception was that I was the attacker.

3.) Is going to his counselor regularly.

4.) "Knows it won't happen overnight, but wants to earn my trust back"

5.) Appears to want to change his behaviors and thought process

6.) Rented his own place today. Taking positive action to dealing with stress that "Helped" this along, and the "feelings" that were obviously "uncontrollable"

7.) Counselor was BOTH of ours and is still mine.

8.) Seems understanding to the idea that I can't trust him, am angry. Not sure how I feel. He violated me, and it is easier to do again (escalates now that it has already happened)

9.) Does not want to "move on" to someone else. Wants to "fix" this with me, but working on himself first. I feel it would be better for him to move on with a fresh start (nothing to make him feel guilty, or remember as he would with me) He insists he will wait as long as I want/need to get "what we had" back.


Me

1.) I care

2.) I love him

3.) I miss the 80% of our relationship that was perfect. He was perfect

4.) I seriously don’t trust: not sure it can be "earned" back at this point.

5.) I am afraid this broken boundary will lead to an easier time, and potentially worse situation (especially when he had such a skewed idea of what happened! Meaning: he was “out of control“ in every sense of the word. How does one control that)

6.) I don’t want my children growing up in that sort of situation.

7.) I can’t stand his squirrelly abusive, manipulative family (which is the reason he rented an apartment,. Saving from his divorce)

8.) These are some of the issues in his life currently that caused the “meltdown”, ex wife is an abuser too. A dynamic existed in the relationship. She is currently using his daughter as emotional blackmail (which is actually abusing her daughter in the process and committing alienation of affection.). He is currently trying to reduce the $879 child support she is soaking him with based on an income from three years ago. There are no jobs in his field, when he was laid off -- this was the amount being taken from $1200 a month unemployment. He couldn’t survive and found a position with his mothers business. (his major abuser) He makes currently $2400 and paying bills from the divorce, along with other bills and living expense. Hence the reason living at parents. Not to mention, every little whim His ex wants, he has to pay for by decree that was filed in sneaky fashion resulting in default. (Going to same attorney, she told him she was calling it off, went ahead with the divorce, told him the serving was just because they didn’t have the information it was called off… He did not show up. Did not know about it until a month and a half after the divorce) He has taken what little money he has to rectify this. Partially borrowed from his parents to do who are holding it over his head as blackmail to solve their problems. He gets his daughter over 50% of the time, living in his parents home who are the cause of his disorder, no where else to go. Working with his mother for his livelihood which she uses as emotional blackmail. (His mother sabotages anything that takes attention away from her; including our relationship by subtle comment that “I am causing his problems“) Generally pushing him into a corner… He started acting really strange…... I told him we needed to cool it sensing the stress and odd behaviors….Then blew a gasket.


Right now, I am still not making plans to see him. I am encouraging him for the changes he is making to alleviate the stress in his life and demanding respect for himself.

I do not plan to see him until I am certain what I am feeling. It is not, fear, obligation, or guilt. I love him. I do realize I have to see the whole “him”, not just the “good”. I am still acting and making plans that my life is moving forward “alone”. Maybe I am playing with fire by continuing a friendship and encouraging him. However, I believe him. I have hope for him. I simply cannot though put myself in that path until it feels safe, and I am still not sure it ever will be.

His jealousy is still there. But he seems to accept the idea that I may not be here in the way he would like. He also asks IF he can call me, and accepts my answer. But again. This is a week out.

Just thought I would update.

[GlennT]

After nearly two years of strict no contact by me, she is still trying to get an answer from me. After not hearing from her for eight months, I had thought she had finially moved on. But yesterday I received two friend requests from two friends of hers from facebook, and then one from her. WTH ?