We're on a break, but I'm worried about her

[inepted]

Right now Im angry. A little surprised, maybe even shocked.

Before I begin I should probably go into a little backstory. So last summer, my BPDexgf was diagnosed with borderline. At the time she was living with a roommate in apartment. That didn't last too long, and eventually she was kicked out and moved back in with her parents. Since then there were two threats of suicide, and one actual suicide attempt, all three times ended with a trip to the psych ward for a few days to a couple weeks.

After her last attempt, I stupidly thought it had to do something with me, and suggested we take a break (you can refer to my older posts to read more about that). Its been just short of a month since we went on a break. In that time, I found out today she's been sleeping with multiple people in that short span, from people she just met online. She's been incredibly skittish lately, and I knew something was going on. Not only that but she's been sneaking out of the house and borrowing her parents car with out permission, driving off just to hang out and have sex with these people.

Despite that, I can forgive her. We're on a break, and if she wants to go have sex with anyone she wants, she can. She at least had the decency to wait until we broke up. Im a little hurt by it, but I can overlook it. What gets me angry though, is how self destructive she is, and how shes so blind by how childish shes acting. Her own mom is ready to kick her out on the street. She's 23 and desperately needs a wake up call, despite going to therapy and starting DBT classes a couple weeks ago.  Ive overlooked a lot of her actions in the past. I really did want this to work because she was so willing to work and make things change, and I believed her. But then I find out she's not doing anything. I even really wanted to work on being friends, but even that she just keeps pushing me away. Up until the break, we never had any major fights, we always managed to work things out. And its not just me, her parents, anyone who cares about her she just keeps pushing them away. Its like she's testing all of us, seeing just how much everyone can take until they give up on her so she can say "see I know you would abaddon me". This is not the same girl I knew just two months ago. This is a side no one has ever seen of her before, and thats what bothers me the most.

Im getting a little tired of validating everything, and watching her skate by life as everyone just shrugs their shoulders when she does something stupid. I guess Im looking for advice on how to go about this. I really want to email her, and tell her she needs to stop acting like a child. That Im getting really sick of her actions lately, and set some firm boundaries for myself. But, I know anything I say will just be seen as a threat, and may just make things worse and be painted an even darker black than I already am. I want to tell her my feelings with out her feeling like Im attacking her.

I do believe there is still some hope left, and she is capable of change. In the past she has shown she is capable. I know it wont happen overnight, and I know there isnt anything I can do to change her. I just wish she would pull her head out and realize what she's doing right now.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[arabella]

Reading what you've written here, it sounds like you still think she's not ill. The things you want to tell her (e.g. smarten up!) are things we would tell a misbehaving teenager or someone who is trodding all over other people 'just because they can'. This is not the situation. Your BPDxgf is not merely 'acting up' or 'seeing what she can get away with' in the conventional sense. She is entirely unaware (on a conscious level at least) of the meaning or purpose of her actions. She's hurting, a lot, and she's 'coping' in the best way that she can. She IS trying.

Sure, you can write to her and say whatever you like. It won't help. She won't change. All that will do is invalidate her feelings and make it seem like you are rejecting her. It will get worse. She is desperately seeking 'love' and validation from random men in order to feel better. The new therapy and your recent breakup probably triggered a lot of fear for her - this is NOT your fault, but it is reality in dealing with a pwBPD. If you can't cope with her dysregulation and are getting sick of the drama, quite frankly no one here is going to blame you. It's horrible and draining and incredibly difficult. But if you care about this girl, don't make it worse by telling her things that her doctors/therapists/parents have, I'm quite sure, already told her (which obviously hasn't helped one iota). Either do this thing and help her to feel good enough about herself to stop on her own (and call 911 when necessary) or you need to step back and detach from the situation altogether. 

[briefcase]

Hi inepted,

Sorry you are going through this.  It's hard when you envision a "break" as a chance for everyone to regroup as she struggles, and she uses it as an opportunity to be with other people. 

As far as being tired of validation, just remember that you shouldn't be validating "everything."  We only validate emotions, not behaviors or "facts."  In this case, I wouldn't validate her behaviors. 

Before you send her an email, think about your goals for doing so.  A lot of times we write these notes hoping that the pwBPD will read it and "see the light."  Sadly, it often doesn't work that way. 

It's good that you are thinking about your own boundaries and limits.  It helps to think about, and know, where we draw the line in our own lives.  What we accept and don't, which is different than what we wish others would and wouldn't do. 

If you want to try to re-engage in the relationship, it's okay to reach out to her.  I'd start simple.  "Hi, I've been thinking about you.  Are you doing ok?"  See what she says.  You can use SET (to tell her something) or DEARMAN (to ask for something you need) as the circumstances demand.

Good luck.   

 

[inepted]

Reading what you've written here, it sounds like you still think she's not ill. The things you want to tell her (e.g. smarten up!) are things we would tell a misbehaving teenager or someone who is trodding all over other people 'just because they can'. This is not the situation. Your BPDxgf is not merely 'acting up' or 'seeing what she can get away with' in the conventional sense. She is entirely unaware (on a conscious level at least) of the meaning or purpose of her actions. She's hurting, a lot, and she's 'coping' in the best way that she can. She IS trying.

Fair enough. I know in her own messed up way she is coping. Im fully aware how ill she is. Its that she keeps claiming there is no issue, that shes not the one at fault is what really gets me. That she is somehow fine, and nothing is wrong. She's the one who believes she is the one not ill. It makes me wonder at times if shes right and Im the crazy one.  

You're right of course, all it will do will just invalidate her feelings. Just when I believe Im learning to cope with her dysregulations, I get tossed a curve ball and she makes things even worse. It just amazes me sometimes how far she can go to self destruct.

The last thing I want to do is leave her. How would you suggest going about "help her feel good" though? Whatever I do, it falls on deaf ears. I keep assuring her I love her and Im going to be around when she wants to work things out but then Im just hit with "Im confused about my feelings" or "Maybe you shouldn't wait for me". She knows shes painted me black but she she doesn't understand it herself, which is causing these feelings of confusion. Im just starting to wonder if I'll ever be painted white again, or if Im waiting for something that will never happen.

[inepted]

Hi inepted,

Sorry you are going through this.  It's hard when you envision a "break" as a chance for everyone to regroup as she struggles, and she uses it as an opportunity to be with other people. 

As far as being tired of validation, just remember that you shouldn't be validating "everything."  We only validate emotions, not behaviors or "facts."  In this case, I wouldn't validate her behaviors. 

Before you send her an email, think about your goals for doing so.  A lot of times we write these notes hoping that the pwBPD will read it and "see the light."  Sadly, it often doesn't work that way. 

It's good that you are thinking about your own boundaries and limits.  It helps to think about, and know, where we draw the line in our own lives.  What we accept and don't, which is different than what we wish others would and wouldn't do. 

If you want to try to re-engage in the relationship, it's okay to reach out to her.  I'd start simple.  "Hi, I've been thinking about you.  Are you doing ok?"  See what she says.  You can use SET (to tell her something) or DEARMAN (to ask for something you need) as the circumstances demand.

Good luck.   

 

I've actually tried reengaging her on a couple attempts. We haven't seen each other since the break, and only exchange instant messages. The conversations seems to start out pretty well but then She's quick to point out "You're using SET on me" which just gets her upset. The past three weeks she's also been extremely skittish which turns out to be the same time she started sleeping around. Perhaps its my imagination, but it almost seems like she feels guilty even talking to me knowing what shes done.

[arabella]

I think a huge part of the problem with mental illness is that the person who is sick can't tell that they're not well. My BPDh recently went into crisis mode (sounds like that's where your girl is at right now too) - he started self-harming, became suicidal, couldn't sleep, lost a lot of weight, etc. and yet he had no idea that something was wrong. I tried to tell him, but he just couldn't see it. I sort of tricked him into seeing his doctor and a medication adjustment plus some serious behavioural changes on my part seem to have pulled him out of his crash (for now). He still doesn't get that he was dysregulated! He thinks his current state is 'wrong' and that his 'true feelings' were the suicidal/cutting/insomniac ones (despite the fact that these things haven't occurred in the past, oh, 10 years)! So even the obvious signs aren't enough to cut through the fog of the illness. It's really sad.

Interestingly enough, when he was in crisis, my BPDh said exactly the same sorts of things - you should leave me, don't wait, this is the way I am, I'm confused about my feelings, it will never get better, etc. In fact, he's still saying a lot of those things even now that he's starting to stabilize. He did come around. He's not mad at me anymore and he doesn't really remember being angry or understand why he was so angry. This happened once before too and I've never gotten a good answer except to just accept that he's ill and it will never make sense. (So frustrating!)

So, what can you do? Reach out. Validate her feelings (not necessarily her actions, just as Briefcase stated). Don't get angry. Don't let her see your frustration. Don't try to give her any analysis or mental 'work' - honestly this was so hard for me, but it was a big trigger for my BPDh when he was dysregulated, he really couldn't handle any extra thought processing and everything seemed like criticism to him. Read through these boards and the lessons - they were the single biggest factor in my learning how to cope!

As for the guilt she might be feeling and the skittish behaviour... .  I was dealing with an affair as well. I basically had to tell him that it was okay, I knew, and I still wasn't leaving and I wasn't mad at him, in order for him to calm down enough to stop pushing at me. In his mind, I would find out, stop loving him, and he'd be abandoned. Don't tell her it's okay if it isn't, but from what you've said, you're willing to forgive it so perhaps you should tell her, straight-up, that it's all okay.

[inepted]

I think a huge part of the problem with mental illness is that the person who is sick can't tell that they're not well. My BPDh recently went into crisis mode (sounds like that's where your girl is at right now too) - he started self-harming, became suicidal, couldn't sleep, lost a lot of weight, etc. and yet he had no idea that something was wrong. I tried to tell him, but he just couldn't see it. I sort of tricked him into seeing his doctor and a medication adjustment plus some serious behavioural changes on my part seem to have pulled him out of his crash (for now). He still doesn't get that he was dysregulated! He thinks his current state is 'wrong' and that his 'true feelings' were the suicidal/cutting/insomniac ones (despite the fact that these things haven't occurred in the past, oh, 10 years)! So even the obvious signs aren't enough to cut through the fog of the illness. It's really sad.

Interestingly enough, when he was in crisis, my BPDh said exactly the same sorts of things - you should leave me, don't wait, this is the way I am, I'm confused about my feelings, it will never get better, etc. In fact, he's still saying a lot of those things even now that he's starting to stabilize. He did come around. He's not mad at me anymore and he doesn't really remember being angry or understand why he was so angry. This happened once before too and I've never gotten a good answer except to just accept that he's ill and it will never make sense. (So frustrating!)

So, what can you do? Reach out. Validate her feelings (not necessarily her actions, just as Briefcase stated). Don't get angry. Don't let her see your frustration. Don't try to give her any analysis or mental 'work' - honestly this was so hard for me, but it was a big trigger for my BPDh when he was dysregulated, he really couldn't handle any extra thought processing and everything seemed like criticism to him. Read through these boards and the lessons - they were the single biggest factor in my learning how to cope!

As for the guilt she might be feeling and the skittish behavior... .  I was dealing with an affair as well. I basically had to tell him that it was okay, I knew, and I still wasn't leaving and I wasn't mad at him, in order for him to calm down enough to stop pushing at me. In his mind, I would find out, stop loving him, and he'd be abandoned. Don't tell her it's okay if it isn't, but from what you've said, you're willing to forgive it so perhaps you should tell her, straight-up, that it's all okay.

Yea, Im somewhat used to her statements by now. In the past I blamed it on her depression. She would only say things like that when she was suicidal/self-harming. Luckily, medication has helped tremendously with. But now, I'm just coming to terms with her splitting. I've never been painted black like this before, and its just so shocking how cold she acts now yet be in a perfectly fine mood with everyone else.

As soon as she told me about sleeping around, I told her right away I was a little hurt, but since we aren't together, she is free to do what she wants and I forgave her. I'm not sure I could make it anymore more clear to her I wasn't mad at what she did. But, she also made it clear it will probably continue. "People have casual sex all the time"  is her justification. She then continued to push on asking me why it mattered to me. I told her the truth that I was a little concerned about her behavior lately, at which point she got mad, and Im back to getting the silent treatment again.

[arabella]

... .  its just so shocking how cold she acts now yet be in a perfectly fine mood with everyone else.

As soon as she told me about sleeping around, I told her right away I was a little hurt, but since we aren't together, she is free to do what she wants and I forgave her. I'm not sure I could make it anymore more clear to her I wasn't mad at what she did.

Yup. Same sort of story here. I chalk it up to them only having enough energy to 'fake it' around others and I get the leftovers. So everyone else thinks he's fine, and I get the black mood. I don't take it personally.

You think you made it clear, but I'm going to bet that she doesn't really believe you. She feels like you might be mad, or she's scared you'll think less of her so therefore, in her mind, that's the truth - you really are angry and you think less of her. It takes a lot of reassurance to get past what a pwBPD has pre-decided.

But, she also made it clear it will probably continue. "People have casual sex all the time"  is her justification. She then continued to push on asking me why it mattered to me. I told her the truth that I was a little concerned about her behavior lately, at which point she got mad, and Im back to getting the silent treatment again.

My best guess? She's trying to normalize her behaviour to make herself feel better. And she wanted you to tell her it mattered to you because you love her. A classic 'fishing expedition'. She did not want to hear that you were a "little concerned about her behaviour" and that's why she went cold. First off, "concerned about her behaviour" sounds like you're judging her (to a pwBPD) and second, "a little concerned" sounds like you don't really love her (again, the BPD) as much any more. And, to be fair to her, what you said is not exactly the way you feel - you really were more upset than you let on, and the reason it affects you that way is because you care more than you let on. I think. I could be completely misreading the situation, but that's my take on it.

[inepted]

Yup. Same sort of story here. I chalk it up to them only having enough energy to 'fake it' around others and I get the leftovers. So everyone else thinks he's fine, and I get the black mood. I don't take it personally.

You think you made it clear, but I'm going to bet that she doesn't really believe you. She feels like you might be mad, or she's scared you'll think less of her so therefore, in her mind, that's the truth - you really are angry and you think less of her. It takes a lot of reassurance to get past what a pwBPD has pre-decided.

Ive been thinking a lot about what you said. Part of me feels like she's faking it so well, that I begin to think its all my imagination. It makes me wonder whether my instincts are right. Because in my gut I feel like something incredibly bad is just around the corner. But then i see how well she's trying to act, I begin to wonder if perhaps this feeling I have is that I want something bad to happen just to be proven right. Because right now, In her mind, she doesn't even seem to be faking it. Ive also never been painted black this long before. In the past it would maybe last for hours when she would yell and tell me she hated me. Now I just get the cold shoulder. Maybe because this time she has her new friends to keep her entertained. But then after talking to her therapist and her parents the other night, it sounds like things are getting ready to blow up. Legally, her therapist cant tell me whats going on, but she seemed incredibly worried about her behavior too. I know, I know, I shouldn't be worrying about what will happen. There isn't anything I can do.

My best guess? She's trying to normalize her behaviour to make herself feel better. And she wanted you to tell her it mattered to you because you love her. A classic 'fishing expedition'. She did not want to hear that you were a "little concerned about her behaviour" and that's why she went cold. First off, "concerned about her behaviour" sounds like you're judging her (to a pwBPD) and second, "a little concerned" sounds like you don't really love her (again, the BPD) as much any more. And, to be fair to her, what you said is not exactly the way you feel - you really were more upset than you let on, and the reason it affects you that way is because you care more than you let on. I think. I could be completely misreading the situation, but that's my take on it.

I hadn't thought about it being a fishing expedition. Now that i think about it, it was pretty strange of her to message me out of the blue asking about it. I did email her the next morning admitting I was more upset than i let on, and that I still love her now just as much as I ever have, which is true. She did seem to believe me because she dropped the silent treatment and we exchanged a few messages about what she was doing in the evening. Then, suddenly my messages started getting ignored again. I suspect one of her new 'friends' made time for her. Its a waste of time thinking about why she started to ignore me, because it wont get me anywhere.

[123Phoebe]

Its a waste of time thinking about why she started to ignore me, because it wont get me anywhere.

Time might be much better spent doing something other than thinking about her   Is there a movie you've been wanting to see, or a museum nearby to check out?  Restaurant, antique store, coffee house... .    Anything to get you out into the world and away from ruminating about what she might be feeling or up to?  And when those thoughts of her drift back in, get back out there, or dig into something at home you've been putting off doing, watch a ball game... something that speaks to you personally   Live your life!

[goldylamont]

inepted, i agree with other posters that you have to focus on your needs and wants now. the relationship between you two seems to need this balance--how much is your ex thinking about you, your feelings and needs and changing her behaviors out of consideration? it doesn't sound like she's doing this at all, only doing exactly what she feels will get her happy in the moment (which is sleeping with other men, having fun without you and acting like nothing is wrong). since you were the one to instigate taking a break, she may just want to get back at you for this.

in my case i always felt with my ex that there was a power struggle--she felt powerless and that somehow i was trying to control her (ludicrous, because i loved her and never tried to control). my instincts tell me that the last time we communicated (several months ago), she just wanted to bring me back in, hear me say how much i loved her so that she could have the pleasure of casting me aside for other men. in this way she's getting back at me for being the one to 'cause' the breakup. this would make since as in her mind, sometimes at least, she thinks i cast her aside for other women and cheated (again, ludicrous).

as far as power goes, seems like she's getting it from her other relationships (via other friends and casual sex) so there's no need to be nice to you because she's feeling less and less like she needs anything from you. my guess is that you're not so much being painted black anymore, in this case you would get into ranting arguments, right? your ex may actually not be painting you any color at all, and the cold shoulder from her may be just because she's not really thinking about you when she's away doing her thing (successfully getting fun and validation from other people). unfortunately, loyalty wasn't something i saw much of from my BPD ex after our last breakup. i honestly think she just wanted to hear me say i had deep feelings for her so that she felt better for a moment before walking away.

look at what she does, not at what she says. you're not crazy, ok?  and the hardest part i think is that you have to start treating her like you would a normal person without a 'disorder'--she's a grown woman, doing what she wants, seemingly not caring a bit how it makes you feel other than to satisfy her needs. i know you still love her, but how long can you wait around before she doesn't need or want to hear from you again? putting all the power in her hands by saying "i'll always be there for you, no matter what"--well, the 'no matter what' part might mean that you get put in the "friend" box and contacted only when she needs a shoulder to lean on when the other men in her life aren't satisfying to her. can you really accept being in this position?