The Long Haul

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

In the midst of a high-conflict divorce from a STBX who has, I believe, BPD. We have three children, and she has succeeded in alienating the oldest, a boy of 14, from me. Currently in a legal battle over custody and property division. She also has financial leverage over me (for our legal battle) through her parent's money. Some days I'm good, even-keeled, other days it seems like an endless battle with no allies.

[tangentcity]

In the midst of a high-conflict divorce from a STBX who has, I believe, BPD. We have three children, and she has succeeded in alienating the oldest, a boy of 14, from me. Currently in a legal battle over custody and property division. She also has financial leverage over me (for our legal battle) through her parent's money. Some days I'm good, even-keeled, other days it seems like an endless battle with no allies.

[livednlearned]

Hi tangentcity,

Welcome to the site. I'm sorry for what brought you here, these are tough marriages and tough divorces, especially when there are kids involved. How old are the other kids?

Parental alienation seems to go with the territory. Have you read Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak? That's a must-read for anyone who is experiencing parental alienation. What kind of custody arrangement do you have in place while the divorce process grinds forward?

Another important book to read is Bill Eddy's "Splitting: Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse." Eddy was a former social worker turned family law attorney, and he founded the High Conflict Institute (www.highconflictinstitute.com) to help people like us navigate the double barrel of divorce with someone who has a mental illness.

You have allies here, we're here for you. This is a good place to think through your strategy and get peer support. People here understand what you're going through, you're definitely not alone.

LnL

[justaboutdone]

Interesting that in this video he says that the BPD targets the oldest first and then when they get ahold of the oldest they work on the rest of them.  Exactly as you stated that she has alienated your oldest child from you. This video is definitely worth watching to help explain the logic behind their process of alienation.

www.youtu.be/brNuwQNN3q4

[ForeverDad]

Whether this is applicable here, I can't say, but my first thoughts were that you son may be vulnerable to alienation because (1) your son is being parentified, that is, feeling he has to take care of or protect his mother and/or (2) and/or she is trying to get him to choose sides and it is easier for him to say no to you then to her and/or (3) he is the oldest and approaching an age at which he may have a voice in his parenting schedule, so she may be trying to get him on her side so the court may be inclined to keep the children together and thus give her an advantage she might not have if he refused to play sides.

[tangentcity]

To livedlearned, justaboutdone, and ForeverDad, and the creators and moderators of this site, thank you. I somehow didn't expect any response - just another "targeted parent." Just reading the responses to my brief post suddenly brought a flood of tears. It's good to talk, to exchange. It's an extremely isolating condition.

I feel rather shaky on my pins - run out of money, about to go Pro Per. I'm in the thick of it - and yet, as inadequate as I feel, I am inspired by Dr. Childress's take on this - to help each other. To change the system for all suffering from this.

I have (in print and on Kindle) maybe 40 books on child custody battles, and "parental alienation." I haven't read them all yet. Of the material I've read, the most helpful so far has been: Amy Baker's books; Children Held Hostage: Identifying Brainwashed Children, Presenting a Case, and Crafting Solutions, edited by Clawar and Rivlin; and - all of Dr. Childress's articles and Youtube lectures. But here's a bullet point from pages 387-8 of the 500-page "Hostage" book: "Lawyers, judges, and mental health professionals are frustrated... .with the process of proving it (detection), objectifying it (methods), and knowing what's best to do (interventions for parent/child)." Nobody has a solution yet. It's up to us. And some enlightened professional helpers like Dr. Childress.

His "Ju Jitsu Parenting" article was a life-changer for me. The same day I read it I began practicing the methods - just working the "Intent to Be with" and "Intent to Understand" "channels." It seemed to work in some small but meaningful ways. I keep at it, but it's hard with de facto about 10% parenting time.

Some quick points here, to not write too-long a post:

a) Spread the word. Read Childress's "Ju Jitsu Parenting article." Practice. Share experiences.

b) if you are unlucky enough to be subjected to an incompetent professional helper, complain. I've been to two therapists with my STBX about our son's emotional distress. We agree he's in distress, but naturally disagree as to its origins. (I asked for her consent for our older son and I to consult Dr. Childress, just us, and she refused, saying she was no way no how borderline and no way no how alienating our son against me or forming a coalition with him against me). A few weeks ago I met with Dr. Childress alone, and he told me one way things would change is if incompetent therapists receive complaints at their licensing boards. So I wrote up a complaint and sent it to the California Board of Behavioral Sciences - not for myself, but to protect the public, any hapless targeted parents and their alienated children who might consult that therapist during a high-conflict divorce.

c) strategy! I need one. So far I've spent $21K with two lawyers, I'm out of money, and I've been constantly on the back foot, with no strategy but defense, trying to defend my reputation as a good parent. Strategy is key, even with a lawyer. So, my strategy is as follows:

- Assemble all the documents I have about my STBX unholy coalition and damaging behavior (derogatory comments in front of the children, rage, loyalty tests, blocking access, etc. and organize chronologically by date, event, standard of behavior contravened, evidence.

- Figure out a way to get all or as much of the evidence (texts, video and audio recordings) admitted. (And keep assembling further evidence. I ordered a small lapel video cam to capture what happens at exchanges or denied "visitation."

- File a motion for modification of child custody and child support (based on her lying on her FL-150 income and expenses declaration)

- Seek relief from the Court in the form of (a) $500 fine for every night that our older son fails to stay with me overnight for a scheduled parenting time with me, payable to a Muslim charity (we are Jewish), (b) compulsory co-parenting classes for both of us,  c) a written admission by my STBX of her role in our son's alienation from me, and promising to uphold his relationship with me as one of great importance, and to cease indulging his wishes to not be with me; and (d) I'll ask for her to pay my costs, based on her refusing to discuss or negotiate anything but forcing me into court repeatedly, and her refusal to allow me to access my property (house equity) to fund my legal battle against her.

As a large element in my strategy, I'm considering pulling an unexpected move and not fighting her for all of the property that I thought was our community property, but that she and her parents are now claiming is her separate property because they were gifts to her alone (about $1.4 million). I am completely out of money, and racking up child support arrears at $1,800/month.

[livednlearned]

Hi tangentcity,

You have the level of effort and commitment needed to try and turn things around. I found it took 110% effort to get the outcome I aimed for, and I'll be paying off the legal debt for a while. Thanks for the recommendation about Ju Jitsu Parenting, and thanks for sharing your experience meeting with Dr. Childress. His video about PA and the underlying attachment theory will hopefully make its way through the family court system. Although there seems to be a lot of fatigue and burnout with the "therapeutic jurisprudence" approach in family court, and change is slow to implement no matter how good the new approach might be. I talked to a law professor whose expertise is family court and she said "sometimes it all just seems to come down to the judge, no matter what other types of corrections we try."

My ex (former trial lawyer) represented himself. This was good because it allowed him to be unfiltered in front of the judge. It was bad because he could, and did, take me to court for anything.

Just saying this as a caution that representing yourself can be easier financially, but you do expose yourself. What might seem like a good strategy on paper, with your pro per consultations, might be too unfiltered and not vetted. For example, your strategy inadvertently targets your ex more than it focuses on what is best for the kids. This would be the kiss of death in my court. My L was flawless in focusing everything on the well-being of the child. It may be different where you are (my court has the child's well-being as "the North star" of the family court system) but the thread of feedback here is to be assertive without maligning the ex. A really hard balancing act that can be hard to do when you are beyond distressed to be losing your child to PA.

I worry that your strategy mixes money with visitation too much. Others might see it different, so best to get a lot of input about this. Court here where I am treats that as an ethical line no parent should cross. My ex ran afoul of that and the judge gave his longest lecture on that point (although it didn't seem to have an impact on N/BPDx... .)

[catnap]

Look for Pro Bono attorneys in your area and.or look for an attorney to help you if you go Pro Se.  It can't hurt to see if you an get some help.

www.kasowitz.com/pro_bono/

www.californiaprobono.org/

[whirlpoollife]

tangentcity,

I just went through  a three year divorce.  And the members here have helped me so much in so many ways.

I'm in an equitabable state but possibly some rules may still apply , maybe not... .

As for the property, she needs to have a detailed paper trail if it was gifited to her solely.  Was it gifted during the marriage or was it seperate in her name only , prior to the marriage. Gifted to her during the marriage then comingled into joint property becomes all marital property. 

If there was seperate property in her name prior to marriage , the increase in value during the marriage becomes marital property.  So appraisals are needed of properties at date of marriage and date of separation. 

If there is a joint account still , then take your half now.

Kids are more important than the money but you need the money to fight for the kids. So don't be too quick to give up on what is yours.

[maxen]

hi tangentcity. i'm so sorry for the situation you're in and i'm glad you found this board. you'll get good support and advice here. please keep posting, even just writing it out helps to relieve the pressure.

i can second what whirlpoollife says here:

I'm in an equitabable state but possibly some rules may still apply , maybe not... .

As for the property, she needs to have a detailed paper trail if it was gifited to her solely.  Was it gifted during the marriage or was it seperate in her name only , prior to the marriage. Gifted to her during the marriage then comingled into joint property becomes all marital property.  

If there was seperate property in her name prior to marriage , the increase in value during the marriage becomes marital property.  So appraisals are needed of properties at date of marriage and date of separation.

i'm also in an equitable state (NYS) and i had experience of all this during my divorce. if she is making a claim of separate property she is obliged, if you choose to demand it, to show a chain of ownership going back before the marriage. that effort is on her. i'd add to whirlpool's list her retirement account if she has one: any increase in it during the marriage is in the pot (that goes for your retirement account too, though).

[livednlearned]

Another thought about strategy.

Strategy is a little different than what you have outlined. You've described tactics. A legal strategy works best when there is a goal or several goals.

Your goal might be full custody.

Your goal might be 60/40 visitation or 50/50. 

You may have a related goal which is to minimize the impact of parental alienation on your kids.

You may have a secondary goal that speaks to the property issue. This goal should probably be treated separate from the custody issues.

Your strategy for full custody might be to ask the court for a custody evaluation that includes an MMPI-22 psych evaluation of both parents.

Your strategycould also include depositions in order to get your wife's sworn testimony documented, to be cross-examined in court.

Your strategy might involve asking the court for a parenting coordinator (if you have that in your state), to bring in a third-party professional who will document the parenting behaviors of both parents

Your strategy might include filing motions for contempt when your wife denies visitation so that you document the behaviors with the court.

If you choose to represent yourself, one thing I highly recommend you do is consult with 2-3 lawyers and ask them what strategy they would take with your case. Ask them what the judge is like -- this is one of the most important things that a lawyer brings to the table. They know the biases and ruling patterns of the judges in their courts. My judge's hot button was parents denigrating one another in front of the child. Lucky me! I had an ex spouse who was fond of denigrating me.

You need to find out how your court sees parental alienation. Most courts know what it is -- many no longer believe that PA is a syndrome (for reasons that Childress mentions in his video), but they are acutely aware that parents create toxic loyalty binds. Often, there are behaviors just as worrisome to the court, and you can get a lot more mileage by focusing on those behaviors. But you want to find out what the judge in your case cares about.

Last, I understand the financial burden, I really do. Representing yourself in family law court during a high-conflict divorce is a little like doing surgery on yourself. Yes, you can watch videos and read books and learn from people here, but do you really want to practice on yourself? My lawyer saved me from myself so many times I can't count the number. At this point, so many years out, I could muster some confidence to represent myself, but it's taken me over 60 filings in 4 years and a lot of time and learning first-hand from watching my L work the court. She's an excellent trial lawyer and was married to someone with a PD, so I learned from a pro.

You can recoup the finances. You cannot replace the lost years if your wife successfully alienates the kids. And it sounds like her side of the family has money, so they will likely lawyer up with someone aggressive. That puts you in a very precarious position -- you'll be cross-examining a woman in the court room, and it will look like an angry man being mean to a sobbing woman. My ex cross-examined me, and when he tried to be aggressive with me, he sunk his own ship.

There is theater to this, and you have to take all of this into account.

Having said this, I do encourage you to approach this case as though you were the one trying it. That's the level of investment needed to get the outcomes you want. I moved so far outside my comfort zone to match my lawyer's confidence in me, and had to grow into this assertiveness one step at a time. If it had been me doing it on my own, I would not have what I have now, which is full legal custody and terminated visitation. It was a combination of having a good lawyer, and my ex representing himself.

[ForeverDad]

Goals, Strategies, Outcomes.

To illustrate risks that most of us faced, here's a scenario that scared so many of us.

• Goal... .I want to get equality in parenting.



• Strategy... .I will ask for equal time since I want everyone to see I'm fair and that's my comfort zone.



• Outcome... .I got stuck with only 'standard' alternate weekends and an evening/overnight in between.

What went wrong?  A few things.

We assumed the judge or magistrate would share our sense of "equal is fair".  Too late we discovered that courts often select a primary parent, often using past parenting history as an indicator.  (In my case we were asked, "What are your work schedules?"  Though stbEx was facing a trial in another court for Threat of DV and I had a TPO protecting me, her reply "I work from home" earned her temporary custody and majority parenting time in the temp order.)

Our collective personality pattern is usually one of fairness, bending-over-backwards fairness, way too fair.  So we felt impelled to seek 50% parenting.  Contrast that with our stbEx who had rejected us and essentially hated our guts by that time.  So stbEx wanted 85-99%, perhaps even 100% parenting.  So the judge, who at that point isn't sure who to believe or just doesn't believe it is that bad, falls back on (1) the usual court default (policy, guideline) of making the mother the primary parent and/or (2) splitting the difference so neither feels the winner.

(Math to find a middle ground: 99 + 50 / 2 = 149 / 2 = 75% vs 25% = alternate weekends for dad)

In other words, don't sell yourself short by thinking you can't or shouldn't ask for majority time.  That would be self-sabotaging.  You can't do that, your children need you.  Same for custody, don't timidly think you can't ask for custody.

So what you need to do from the very first hearing... .

• At every hearing find ways to let the judge know you are and want to remain a very involved parent, that you want to step up to the plate and parent.



• Get the best 'temporary' order you can get since the court is unlikely to adjust it during the excruciatingly long divorce.



• Ask for what you think is best for your children.  Even if you don't get it, you can honestly tell your children, when they are told by the ex that you walked away and abandoned them, "Yes, I did fight for you, I did my reasonable best."  They don't expect you to be Superman or Superwoman but they need to know you cared.



• Ask for a lot, more than what you think you'll get.  Odds are that someone, either your ex, your judge or both, will whittle your parenting down quite a bit so you need to ask for more so that when you get less it hopefully won't be too bad.

[tangentcity]

Thanks for the comments! I can't believe how helpful this site is.

Livednlearned, I get your point about finances. At this point, however, I have few options. I might have to leave this apartment I took last December, which is suitable for my three children (in a good neighborhood, in between their school and the house where STBX lives), and sell my car. It's been two months since our Preliminary Custody Hearing (at which we were given Joint Legal and Joint Physical custody, albeit me with the bog-standard "split the difference" of every-other weekend plus (I was given the choice between what I went for and two weekday dinners) Thursday overnights (30% custody)); and because STBX's lawyer has selective memory and writes sloppily, I've rejected the two Findings and Orders after Hearing documents he'd helpfully volunteered to write up for us (how is this is seen as a good idea just beats me to hell), so that so far my wages have not yet started to be garnished of the $1,600 a month child custody; when that kicks in, I will be bankrupt within two pay cycles. My STBX's lawyer claims to not remember the judge telling her she had to work more, and that we could renegotiate a custody schedule come summertime. My now ex-lawyer claims that it probably won't matter to the judge that her "TBD" on her Income and Expense form was actually $400,000 (to which income could have been imputed), and that it's extemely unliked the average $5,000 a month her parents have given us over the past twelve years would be taken into account in child support calculations.


I made some now clearly unwise choices when I was forced out of the house under emotional duress: getting an expensive apartment, buying furniture. I fired my lawyer a week ago last Thursday, just because I needed whatever was left from the additional $5,000 retainer I'd paid him after burning through $10,000 after I'd hired him just three weeks before the custody hearing, after I'd paid two other lawyers to confirm that the first lawyer I'd retained was way too passive and giving me bad advice. The day after I fired my second lawyer, I read a blog post by the inestimably great Thurman Arnold III on the "death spiral" that people sometimes get into, soon after they discover the notion of fiduciary duty and decide to go Pro Per. ___, thought I, that's me: I'm going in the death spiral. How could I concentrate at work? How could I prevail? How could I save my kids? How could I not get crushed? I emailed my lawyer back and asked whether there was way to cut a deal where I'd pay him a nominal monthly sum, and settle in full after the settlement. A week later, he told me he couldn't afford to work like that. We did end up by agreeing that I could use him on an as-needed basis, with payment in advance, at the slightly reduced rate of only $350/h.

I made the mistake of borrowing only $18,000 from my 401K, before learning I could only borrow once. I have no other sources of cash. It's a perfect storm, and I know money and custody are supposed to be treated as completely separate things.

ForeverDad, I agree with you, and that was my mistake too. However, I remember when I confronted my STBX mother-in-law, about the alienation that was starting, and I told her that if my STBX continued, she was proving herself to be an inadequate parent, and I would ask for sole custody. At that, she laughed quietly and said, "You'll never get it." And I felt she was right. But you know what? I'm about to file a Request for Order to change custody based on my STBX's forming a coalition with our older son against me/ engaging in hostile gatekeeping / engaging in attachment-based "parental alieanation" (using that term with quotation marks to denote that I'm not using the legally-discredited PAS; but you can tell I'm not sure what words to use to talk about what she's doing; or rather, as I can read in the comments here, I'll try to not use any labels at all, but just describe her behavior), and I was planning to -fairly, humbly, good-guy style - just ask for true shared parenting, as close to 50:50 as we can get, come on here, let's be reasonable, everyone knows that's what's best for the children.

But then, no. If I do that, I'm thinking now, I won't get anything. Dr. Childress and others hold that the best thing to do is protective separation of the child from the alienating parent. Some say nine months, others a few weeks at least. I'm not sure - that seems like a bridge too far. Another of Dr. Childress's perhaps more acceptable-to-the-court ideas is an A/B design - say, three weeks with Parent A(alienating), then three weeks with the Target Parent; and you record the number and severity of alienating symptoms. Sigh. This seems too much to hope for. My STBX has refused my request that our older son and I consult with Dr. Childress. Useful, well-trained helpers in the therapeutic community seem thin on the ground.

I know as well that courts are reluctant to change basic custody orders once they've been set (Joint vs. Sole). On the other hand, I could show that de jure Joint Custody is giving way to de facto Sole Custody because of my STBX's behavior. (This is just with one of our three children, though I am afraid it's going to spread.)

I do feel that the surpise attack of being served divorce papers to begin with, and then the Request for Order for sole physical custody with me being given "standard" every-other-weekend, has kept me constantly on the reactive, with bad lawyering, or at least inadequate - I never had enough time to discuss strategy or map out the path to my goals. Now, as Pro Per, I'm at last in a position to start taking control of my case. I'll try my best to cough up extra resources to get legal help, but at this point I don't expect to be even able to afford hourly consults. (I do have about three hours worth of pre-paird advice with Helene L. Taylor, a lawyer-divorce strategist I highly recommend).

[ForeverDad]

I've always been perplexed by all the conflicting aspects of court, professionals, orders, etc.

For example, for two years I lived as an alternate weekend parent with an evening in between, well, sometimes I didn't even get the evening, court set the temp order and wasn't concerned since it was 'only temporary' after all.  So there I was, not seeing my preschooler for 8-11 days at a time.  Then when Trial Day came and my ex blinked, we finally started negotiating.  There were subtle indicators that we should try Shared Parenting.  (That failed of course and within three years I was Legal Guardian, though to get that it took another 17 months in court.)  I told the excellent custody evaluator that due to the repeated confrontations at exchanges, I wanted the shared parenting to be 7/7 to minimize contact.  He said No, a young child should be away from the other parent for as little as possible and until he was 10 advocated a 2/2/5/5 schedule.  (Ex would get Mon/Tue overnights, I would get Wed/Thu overnights and we would alternate weekends.)  I was stunned, for two years in the court's temp order I hadn't been seeing son for far longer than that.  I felt a real disconnect.

Spin the calendar forward to last year.  I had just gotten majority time during the school year but magistrate kept us with equal time in summer.  I wanted that 7/7 schedule again to reduce contact with her.  This time it was my lawyer who objected, he reminded me that asking for less frequent exchanges would in effect be saying I would be okay with ex having longer times with our son.  So son is a teenager now and we still follow the 2/2/5/5 schedule for the summers.

[livednlearned]

Hi tangentcity,

Is it possible to simplify things a little? If your ex is withholding visitation, can you file a motion for contempt of court? You need to document your attempts to see your son, and document that she denied it. Make a request for your son to see a therapist, and document her denial. Get as much of her behavior documented in email as you can.

Get centered in the pain of losing your son. That is all the courts care about. If you go pro per, you will be on trial and your emotions, your ability to be persuasive, will be equal if not more important than the documentation you produce. I am not a theatrical person at all -- totally the opposite. I learned the power of the dramatic pause during my last trial when ex was cross-examining me, about to lose visitation. He was trying to claim that a message to my son about my current SO being a pedophile was intended as a joke. I highly recommend not having eye contact if you do get into a position where you're being cross-examined. Instead, look down, close your eyes, and focus on your child. How is this behavior impacting them? It's destroying them. It's destroying you.

This is important because in court, which is stressful and adversarial, it's tempting to focus your anger at your spouse. I don't know why, but judges have low tolerance for this. I think it's because it's too personal, too intimate, and they, like everyone else, knows that conflict destroys the kids, and really don't care if two adults are mad at each other. They want to know why the two of you can't just figure this out and act like grown-ups? This is our true adversary in court: Ignorance. People don't understand mental illness, and they most certainly don't understand BPD.

Let yourself feel the pain of losing your son and have that be the angel that guides you through the proceedings.

Otherwise, you'll get eaten alive. I sat in court countless times and watched other cases, and even knowing what I know about BPD and high-conflict personalities, it was often hard to tell who was the problem.

Read this article about high-conflict personalities and family law court. Not just the part on bpdfamily, but the actual article. It reflects a lot of what Bill Eddy recommends, but more. It's written by lawyers for lawyers, and may help you think the way you need to if you represent yourself.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270440.msg12566140#msg12566140

Read everything under Lesson 6 on Parental Alienation (over on the Coparenting board). I think Childress's work is the best, but every little bit will add to that:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.msg1331467#msg1331467

Lesson 5 is also critically important, especially all of the material about validation. With PA, validation is the most critical communication skill to use with your kids. It's like a martial arts move -- they can't block validation like they can logic. And validation feels good. It's hard-wired into us to connect and feel empathy, and this is the communication skill that touches on that ancient biology in us. It's so unnatural to hate a parent so when it happens, you have to use something from your emotional tool kit to coax things back to their natural order. More time with you will help, but time is only part of it.

This is also a good article, written by Eddy before he wrote his book, about his theory of persuasive blaming: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271911.msg12580077#msg12580077

The financial aspect of this is awful. This is a setback in your life, but you will recover from it. If you go pro per, it will help -- and it may be cathartic. Somehow you have to be fierce and tender at the same time, not an easy balance.

Throughout all of this, take good care of yourself. It might feel selfish -- do it anyway. You have to come first. You have to be healthy and strong for this. Take a mindfulness-based stress reduction class if you can. Read Jon Kabat-Zinn's work about the neuroscience of mindfulness if you can't afford a class. It will help you stay centered and focused, and eliminate words like death spiral from your vocabulary. Focus on what you can do, not on what's being done to you. I know it sounds corny, the difference is that people here on this board have been in your shoes. We'll be here for you when you need support.  

Your ex doesn't have that.

[tangentcity]

ForeverDad, you're making me rethink my strategy. I'm about to file a Request for Order as Pro Per. It's been two months now since our Preliminary Custody Hearing and a string of bald alienating behaviors from my STBX captured in texts (between her and our older son, and to me), as well as video, and emails. I'm not sure how admissable it all is, but I'll do my best to get it accepted as such.

I was planning to ask for "more time, please, if only as a buffer against her."

I have 30% now. However, my goal is not really "more time." My goal is and was from the start "a healthy, loving, authoritative, paternal relationship with our three children." I went in like the proverbial good guy and reasonable dad; with a presumption of shared parenting. I'm wondering now, edging closer to a decision, whether I should modify my strategy and ask for Sole Physical Custody, and try to get the court to accord her what she tried to accord me - visitation rights. Militating against that are (a) a sense that judges hate modifying custody once it's been set like that, and (b) a feeling I'll get punished for "asking for too much." My now ex-lawyer advised me to ask for 50% parenting time, "and in the alternative", a 50% parenting summer schedule, to be revisited in the fall.

I feel that to do that would be to agree with the box I've been put in, the suspect father who's on probation. In any event... .I will gather and organize the evidence, and ask for more time. Even though the CA Family Code says that if sole custody is awarded the parent who better encourages a relationship with the other parent should get it, I gather that a mother has to be far worse than my STBX has, for far longer, in order for that to happen, i.e. for it to go to the dad. 

Livednlearned, I feel in some way that my whole professional career has led me to this point... .of going Pro Per, and facing court dates in my future. I have about fifteen years of experience in quickly evaluating large masses of facts and assembling them into simple and persuasive presentations (I work in technology discovery). For a few years I gave a lot of public talks, and studied The Presentation Secrets of Steve Jobs (an excellent book by Carmine Gallo) intensively. In some sense I'm almost looking forward to a court battle. I have an appetite for this, that is based on knowing who I'm fighting for - my son, and the threat looming that our other son and our daughter could also be, are already being, affected by my STBX's personality disorder. Sometimes, of course, I falter and wonder how I'll ever do it, and it's daunting to have to learn the law, local court rules, the judge's propensities, how to counter the STBX's BPD poison, protect the kids, model good emotional regulation, etc. all at the same time.

Dr. Childress told me that I should allow my emotions to well up sometimes - it's an extremely difficult balance, as with everything to do with BPD, but as I've seen twice already with therapists, if I'm too in control, it comes off as if my STBX is the victim of a heartless brute. So the point about not attacking my STBX is well-taken. I'll try to focus on just presenting the facts of her behavior, and make it clear that the best interest of our son and of our other two children is not served by this "temporary" status quo.

It's mind-bending to consider the "best interest of the child" standard. It's so child-centric that parents are downgraded in a way that could almost be called eldritch. As in, very odd, uncanny, tinged with evil. There's something unhinged from reality about it. It's a principle, and a process, that makes no sense because it's not presumed to be in the child's interest to have two parents intimately involved in her or his life. This concept of a presumption is of course new to me. There's efforts underway in many states to change this. But since there's no such presumption here now, I find it hard to relate to the mentality of a judge who could think it in the BIC to have them see their father along the "standard" visitation schedule. That's I fear a major weakness of mine - I assume, even now, that of COURSE the judge "gets it", will get it - that I'm a good dad, that I love my children, and that they need me, they need both their parents. 

Maybe I was TOO controlled in court? I remembered Dr. Childress's advice a week later when my son absconded from school rather than come with me and his brother and sister because it was my weekend with them. When the cops arrived, naturally they had to suss the situation out, and after talking with the counsellor, with whom, thank my lucky stars, I'd already spoken with twice about the situation with our high-conflict divorce, they came to perform a sniff test on me. While they were talking to me I really felt the pain of my beloved son feeling he hated me so much he would rather run away from school than be from me; and I also thought it possibly useful to let the cops see a bit of my distress. So I almost cried.This is going to come off all wrong, because it's not as if I was acting. I guess I had decided to not keep a tight lid on my emotions. It didn't lead to great results (our son called his mom, who rushed to save him at the Target  from where he'd called her; the cops went to talk with them, and decided to let him leave with her, because he was distressed at the thought of seeing me and I had no court order on me), but it made me think I'll do that the next time too. If I can manage not to lose it completely. I have to be non-vengeful, not attacking, and not overly defensive, openly admitting my faults and flaws; not overly emotional, but not coldly rational either. Easy peasy.

I can't imagine the pressure of upping one's game in life not only to learn how to manage a BPD ex, to protect children from their disorder, AND to represent oneself in court. I'm about to find out. I can't do the impossible or be a superman. I'll do what I can. But I'll say again - this site, right here, which I just discovered less than a week ago, has been a real support. It makes me want to conquer all these challenges as best and fast as I can so that I can be in better shape to help others do the same. I read that something like 80% of CA divorces feature at least one self-represented party. There must be tens of thousands of self-represented men and women who've faced down a vengeful and destructive BPD-ex. This site makes me want to be one of those who've survived and thrived past the process in order to help others do the same.

[livednlearned]

Yes, I believe California has a high rate of pro se litigants. Divorce is a growth industry   and expensive, so the courts are seeing a lot more pro per and pro se.

There was a father here a few years back who represented himself in a California court, and I believe his case had a terrible case of parental alienation. He had a military background and was very well prepared, from the sounds of it. His posts are here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?action=profile;u=41860;sa=showPosts;start=570

If you're in California, have you looked at Bill Eddy's site: www.highconflictinstitute.com? Eddy is based in CA. If you read everything on his site, you would probably end up thinking/acting like a successful litigant than many lawyers. The tone you're going for in court is to be real about the love you have for your kids, and come in with a reasonable proposal, backed up by evidence, without the evidence sounding like you're attacking your ex. Anyway, check out his site -- especially the Politics of Alienation article -- California recently banned the use of any "non-scientific" theories, and this includes Parental Alienation Syndrome. www.newways4families.com/Published-Articles/politics-of-alienation.html

You may have to approach problem you're having with your son a different way than PA. In my state, focusing on a parent's refusal to follow the custody order results in a motion for contempt. These can collect like parking tickets in family law court -- but when there is a pattern of them, and they start to show a pattern, judges start to wonder why this parent cannot comply with the order, and that's when high-conflict parents start to become more transparent to the court. That's what happened in my case. The judge became a target, and my ex started to get mad at him. Not smart! The most surreal moment was listening to N/BPDx accuse the judge of lying about his back surgery.   

There is another version of pro se -- I can't remember what it's called. It's when you strategize and confer with a lawyer, but you do all the lifting. Pro tem? Whatever you decide to do, try and get a feel for your judge if you can. That's if you don't have rotating judges, or elected judges up for reappointment. My L rushed to file a motion for termination of visitation through court before my (good) judge rotated off the bench and a new one came on (bad). The bad judge had no kids and ruled so close to the letter of the law that it was destructive for families. She tended to look at legal technicalities as opposed to using her intuition -- judges don't want their rulings to be appealed, so sometimes they stick so close to legal precedent it makes no sense. It only makes sense if you understand that they are pulling a CYA move, and don't really care about the family and what's best for the kid.

Another good way to learn is to sit in court and watch a few cases. If your court is friendly toward pro se litigants, and many are, the judge may ask why you're there. I saw a fair number of law students sitting in court. Because my case was high-conflict, we often had to go last (because our case was going to take longer), and the judge would try to clear the court. If someone was there as a law student, he let them stay. You learn a lot watching other cases get tried.

And of course, you can search for case law on Google Scholar.

With the video you want entered as evidence. Find out if California has two-party or one-party consent laws -- if you recorded interactions without consent in a two-party consent state, it won't be admissible. And be careful -- ask a lawyer during a consultation how to handle video. It tends to be treated as a much more invasive type of evidence than emails and texts.

[sfbayjed]

On the denial of visitation.  It seems like you have an order in place.

My ex loves to harass me, if one avenue closes, she finds another way.  One thing she did a few times is take an old court order and go to the police and tell them i was refusing visitation even though I wasn't.   The cops came out of every time, they always tried to call first.  I am sure if you asked them to only call they would only call.  

The court never did a thing when my ex refused my visitation, never did a thing about the harassment.

Try to detach as much as possible, she will likely never change and you are going to have to deal with her till the kids are 18.

Co-parenting isn't going to work. I would not advocate for it.  I have had to go several times and it is just horrible.  It is not good for anyone when you are dealing with a persistent blamer.

This is just my experience but things got better in my case when I ditched my attorney. I could not afford to keep an attorney, I am constantly being falsely accused of things and it was stressing me out too much going into debt defending myself from one false accusation after another. If she has no proof; "That is not true" is enough.  

my advice is set aside time to work on your case and try not to worry about it outside of that time and be just be awesome, like you were before you met her (easier said than done, I know).  Remember you are always your kids father. You are their role model. That role model can be a stressed broken dad or an awesome dad.  And as much as you can you need to try to be awesome.


On recording.  California is a two party consent state. You can not record if there is an expectation of privacy without the other parties consent. Of course if you are in a public place there is no expectation of privacy. 

[tangentcity]

Well, today I joined the ranks of the self-represented. I’m sure everybody here who’s from California knows about the website of Thurman Arnold III, but I thought I’d mention it: it’s a gold mine.

I have three or four of Bill Eddy’s books. I love his approach. The man is a triple threat (therapist, lawyer, social worker I believe it is), and his findings and suggestions bespeaks years of learning in the trenches and on his feet. I don’t happen to agree with his opinion that a presumption of shared parenting is a bad idea. And I happened to pick a bad therapist who had been trained at his High Conflict Institute, and who obviously knew nothing about “parental alienation.” The book “Splitting” was to me a bit of a downer: the challenges really are stark and steep. Maybe I was expecting a handy-dandy solution. So it’s probably realistic in that respect, but still dispiriting. I do wholeheartedly agree with his advice about how to deal with High-Conflict Personalities; though I’m a rank beginner with the whole, “So, what’s your proposal?” approach.

I will stay away from any use of the words “parental”, “alienation” and “syndrome.”

My ex-lawyer agreed to work for me on an as-needed rate. I’m out of money though, and will probably file for bankruptcy soon.

I’ll start going once a week to court, to see my actual judge in action.

It’s bracing to read of all the broken aspects of the court system. The “cover your ass” aspect of judge’s rulings is particularly challenging for Pro Per litigants, because ultimately all the asses looking out for each other went to law school. But reading here of other’s painful journey through the courts, to do what they can to save their children, gives me courage.

[livednlearned]

I agree with you that Eddy has a great approach -- and also about the presumption of shared parenting. Although, I got the feeling from his work that he recognizes some approaches work better with the "cooperative" high-conflict person (not dangerous) than people who are extremely high conflict. If you have someone with comorbid mental illnesses, substance abuse, DV, or some of the behaviors that seem almost anti-social/pathological, then you have to adjust your strategy accordingly.

I also think if you have a child who shows any signs of behavioral issues, it's best to try and get as much legal and physical custody as you can. 

[tangentcity]

My BPD STBX does fall in the "dangerous" category. She has told me that she intends to destroy me. I don't think she has the personality structure to withstand any blame for the end of our marriage. Since I carry all the blame I'm very evil and the kids need to be protected from me. And my ruination, financial and emotional, would be my condign punishment for having had an affair.

That she is in the "dangerous" category is something neither of my lawyers appreciated. My second lawyer, the one with whom I went through our preliminary custody hearing, was "fight fire with water" to a fault. Even Ed Sherman in his Do Your Own Divorce books, who counsels endlessly about how courts solve nothing, says that if you're being attacked aggressively it's appropriate to hit back aggressively; to let the other side know you've got teeth and muscle in the fight too. A dangerous-type BPD STBX gets further inspired if they smell blood or fear. I've been tempted, for example, to try to "reason" with my STBX because I'm under such financial strain. Of course that would be the worst thing to do.

Dr. Childress's writings on the unresolved childhood suffering of the BPD ex being passed on to the healthy ex through alienation also applies, I believe, to other issues. My STBX comes from money; she has always had more money than I do (even though I've always been the major bread-winner in our family); she has millions, and millions more coming down the pike at her. Yet she has always been terrified of being destitute; of being homeless. I'm facing that reality (the distinct possibility) now, not her. (I mean, not homeless; I could always rent a room somewhere if worst comes to worst.)

I'm about to go back to court to ask for more custody time and to show the court the evidence (texts, emails, video) I have of my BPD STBX forming an unhealthy coalition with our older son against me. From the beginning of our period of joint legal and joint physical custody in late February she has been encouraging our son in his alienation. I'm wondering if anybody here has had success with actually going for the full Monty, i.e., pulling the tables on her and asking for Sole Physical Custody, with her accorded visitation, after being accorded Joint Custody at a preliminary hearing? This kind of advice-seeking might be too specific and individual... .

I'm just wondering what the best approach is, what to request. On the one hand, I'm told that courts are reluctant to impose sanctions or to change anything after "temporary" orders are issued. On the other hand, I'm told that I should not be diffident, that I should ask for a lot, because I'll probably get little.

In California, where sole physical custody is accorded, the law says that one important factor is which parent would most encourage a relationship with the other parent. To me it's clear I'm that parent, but what's not clear is how the court would determine that. I think I'll just be "modest" (even though I don't feel like it) and ask for true shared 50:50 parenting.

[ForeverDad]

Bill Eddy's seminars to the professionals are a bit upbeat IMO.  He's not going to tell them, "you're stuck".  He's trying to show them how to deal with it and part of it is that they can, with strategies and methodologies, find at least minimally effective solutions.

He focuses on HCPs - High Conflict Personalities.  He realizes the court may not be able to change them so he teaches them practical ways to manage them.  I feel, if feel is the right word, that he doesn't emphasize enough that the more stable parent/spouse needs to be supported with empowering orders.  By the time they end up in court it's already been an uphill struggle, court ought to ensure the more stable parent/spouse doesn't have to keep struggling.

Not everyone here has a HCP.  Many members in Staying and Leaving never end up here dealing with the legal aspects.

I'm about to go back to court to ask for more custody time... .I'm wondering if anybody here has had success with actually going for the full Monty, i.e., pulling the tables on her and asking for Sole Physical Custody, with her accorded visitation, after being accorded Joint Custody at a preliminary hearing? This kind of advice-seeking might be too specific and individual... .

I'm just wondering what the best approach is, what to request. On the one hand, I'm told that courts are reluctant to impose sanctions or to change anything after "temporary" orders are issued. On the other hand, I'm told that I should not be diffident, that I should ask for a lot, because I'll probably get little... .

I think I'll just be "modest" (even though I don't feel like it) and ask for true shared 50:50 parenting.

Sorry, being modest in what you seek does not work when the other parent is aggressively on the attack.  Imagine that you get a judge who might decide to "split the difference".  If you seek 50% and ex seeks 99-100%, you're too likely to walk out with something in between, AKA standard alternate weekend parent with about 20% time.  Keep the focus on what is best for the children and that you are the one who would follow through.

Yes, there is often an unwritten, unspoken gender bias in many aspects of custody and parenting schedules.  Often the policies procedures and even the way they're written typically benefit one gender.  For example, historically it has been the husband who went off to work and the mother cared for the children.  My custody evaluator told me that 50% of his recommendation or the court's actions would be influenced by the parenting time history.  That sinks many of us relatively normal fathers.  In my own case, my then newly-separated spouse was facing trial in another court for Threat of DV.  Because my ex had made counter allegations over in family court, CPS got involved and stood up stating they had "no concerns" about me.  Yet the magistrate had one final question before he made a temp order, "What are your work schedules?"

I had a two year divorce, the last step before the trial was scheduled was a Settlement Conference in my lawyer's conference room.  I recall beforehand, while in my lawyer's office, her lawyer came in, sat down and started talking, just the 3 of us.  One of the things he said was that he himself was divorced and he had alternate weekends (same as what I had then during the temporary order).  He suggested that as something to agree with.  I said, "Sure, sounds good to me but I don't think Ms FD wants alternate weekends."   He was quiet after that.

By the way, that was one of the few times in my life where I had a wonderful answer at the right time.  I savored the moment.

By the way, the settlement conference failed within about 5 minutes or so.  She half-rose, clawing her fingers at me, saying, "I'll scratch your eyes out if you try to get custody!"  So much for court-ordered settlement conference.

However it is not always that the issue is about gender.  Another major factor is that the professionals are impacted by the intense emotional warfare used by the disordered spouses.  The overwhelming Blaming and Blame-Shifting is so intense, it is hard for them not to think, "Where there is so much smoke surely there has to be a fire."  Yes, even our female members here have had very difficult struggles to salvage their parenting.

It's almost like the court and professionals dance around the disordered parent, treating them with kid gloves.  Perhaps there is a reason.  I know that was the case at least once with me, my ex filed a grievance against my county sheriff's female investigator who was tasked with looking into my ex's failed attempt to get an Amber Alert put out on me in September 2006.  Professionals want to avoid being the focus of complaints at all costs.

Just a year ago at the end of 2013, some EIGHT YEARS after our separation, a magistrate noted that my ex had a continuing pattern of 'disparagement of Father' and 'denigration of Father' yet was "willing to give Mother one more try" and ordered that ex keep her equal parenting time for the summers.  So, though my ex's parenting time was reduced, why did I get 22% time in the beginning (and extending for well over 2 years) when nothing was seen wrong with me but ex with consistently poor behaviors after many years and periodically reductions now has come down to 25% time during the school year, 50% time during the summer and an overall average of 30.3% time for the year?  What I got with a few moment's thought years ago was much less than what my ex has after years of poor behaviors and the magistrates' soul searching.

Don't get me wrong.  Your case does appear to have vastly more proactive professionals involved than I had, I expect your outcome to be more favorable than mine.  I lived for over two years with alternate weekends before we settled for equal time.  You already have equal time and the professionals are clearly leaning toward having you take the lead in custody and probably parenting going forward.  Yes, they'll be reluctant to stop your spouse's contact with the children, but at this point you're way ahead of the typical curve for fathers.  So don't 'gift' it away due to being timid, being overly fair, or being overly whatever.

And beware of making decisions based on "but she loves the children".  Consider the entire picture.  Balance "she loves them" against the devastating effects of her years of poor behaviors.  When seen from that perspective, "but she loves the children" is a lame excuse to wimp out of standing up for what is best for your children.

Most courts consider custody as separate from parenting time.  Find out how your state and local courts handle it.  You may have to live with joint legal custody but the amount of scheduled parenting time can be a separate matter altogether.

You should seek full custody (may take a custody evaluation to get a professional to recommend it) but include a secondary option, so that if the court declines to grant you full custody, then you are seeking tie-breaker or decision-making status in joint custody.  That way you can still do your parenting without the predictable obstructions and without having to resort to Parenting Coordinators, mediators or going back to court over and over and over.

Courts often ignore incidents older than six months before filing as 'stale' or 'not actionable' but such incidents in the past can count as history or pattern of behaviors.

Many courts effectively ignore mental health labels concluding they don't know how much it affects the parenting.  Realizing that, you need to be careful not to "play doctor" claiming mental health labels or diagnoses.  If there is a diagnosis, fine, but that's not what counts most.  You need to do what most professionals and the courts do, focus on the behaviors and behavior patterns.  While you can mention the poor adult behaviors, you should give priority and focus to your ex's poor parenting/alienating behaviors since that is what the courts give priority attention.

In my case (similar to what most members here have experienced) my ex was never diagnosed.  However, eventually her parenting behaviors became the determining factors.  The custody evaluator's initial report stated, "Mother cannot share 'her' child but Father can."

[livednlearned]

I started off with joint legal and primary physical custody in my temporary order, and slowly, with my ex's behavior, a good lawyer, a good judge, and good third-party professionals (plus a heap load of documentation on my part), managed to chip away until I ended up with full custody (legal + physical). Last fall the judge terminated visitation completely. Quite a shock.

So it's possible to reverse or modify the temporary order.

The variables in my case do make a difference, including those above, like the judge in particular. My lawyer said "he came up with a group of judges who are very intuitive." Some judges do things by the book.

Another big variable is the degree to which my ex was ill. My T pegged him as BPD with strong narcissistic tendencies, and he experienced some manic/psychotic episodes, the biggest happened when S13 (10 at the time) was there overnight for visitation. That night rocked me to my core, literally split me open and I needed a full rebuild to recover. N/BPDx sent over 100 messages, texts, voice mails, emails, IMs all night long, 12 hours straight. Clearly unhinged. I filed an emergency ex parte order to suspend visitation and S10 didn't see his dad for 4 months.

That episode coincided with the appointment of a parenting coordinator -- these people can be wicked bad, but mine was a psychologist who trains PCs for our state, and she became a very persuasive third-party witness. She actually requested to have the judge end her one-year contract, which neither the judge, my lawyer, or the PC had ever done in their decades of experience.

It also helped that N/BPDx represented himself. There was no expert lawyer to filter him. The judge saw him on full display.

So it can be done.

I mention all this because if you have an ex with more subtle problems that aren't easy to document and she has access to shark tank lawyers, you may not have the same leverage I had. To change the temporary order, you have to demonstrative "substantive change in circumstances" (I believe that's fairly standard and ambiguous language used by most states) which the judge then makes a decision based on how well you persuade, using the evidence you have.

The most important thing I learned is to go into court with a proposal. Not just "I want full custody and more time with my kids." It needs to be reasonable, enough to sway the judge to think, "This can't hurt. I'm not sure what's going on between these two parents, and this proposal will get some other professionals involved."

So if your concern is PA, then when you go into court to modify custody, be sure to add something that will dangle a carrot, and that even if you fail in court, it's a step toward a longer term strategy. For example, "Your honor, my older son is not only rejecting me, but he is rejecting my parents, my siblings, his cousins. The dog he used to adore, he no longer will even pet or acknowledge. I used to have a good relationship with my son before the divorce, and now when he comes to stay with me, he shuts himself in the room and will not have eye contact with me. It's breaking my heart. I want to be in my kids' lives, and I know they need me, and my oldest son needs me as he goes through adolescence more than ever before. I am asking to modify custody so that I can see him more, and request your honor to order reunification therapy with a list of forensic psychologists -- I have three here, all of them recommended by the court -- so that I can be sure my son and I maintain a strong relationship."

The reunification therapist will have a forensic background, and will know about personality disorders. Pick three that are the best in your area, and then let your ex pick one of those. Make sure every offer has a consequence, "Your honor, I ask that you make this a binding agreement, my ex can choose one of these three people." And then (this is important!) in the order -- usually her lawyer or your lawyer would write this -- the two of you come back to court to make sure the judge likes how it was written up. I would recommend having your lawyer write this, even if it costs money, because you can add a sentence like, "I have proposed three reunification therapists that are court-approved, and ex can pick one. If ex does not pick one within a 2 week period, then I will go ahead with the courts authority and select one myself." In other words, every possible moment when the ball is in her court, have a consequence for her non-compliance. Close all her loopholes so that if she tries to undermine your solution, she is penalized by the ball automatically coming back to your court.

You have to think 10 steps ahead!

Since you are representing yourself, the judge may ask the other lawyer to write it up. That's a bit trickier. You'll have an option to approve the order as it was drafted, and can make amendments, but anything you propose will have to be signed off by your ex. And she can stonewall the process like a pro, is my guess. If that's the case, then it might be a good idea to make your consequence for non-compliance a part of your proposal to the judge. "Here's what I think might help, and I've picked three therapists all in good standing with the court, and ex can pick 1 within 14 days. If she cannot decide on one in the next fortnight, I will choose one."