Lost patience with ex holding stuff hostage - how can I force action?

[ThisIsMyTruthTellMeYours]

My ex wBPD traits split up with me three months ago now. It was amicable enough and revolved around her wanting to get better. Though I wonder if that really is the pure truth, we resolved to stay in touch. Contact these days is very sporadic and i'm trying to maintain distance to help myself.

Long story short, despite several excuses and me giving her the benefit of the doubt on several occasions, there remains a very valuable instrument of mine at her house.

I posted about this debacle at the start of January, when I compromised with her and agreed to pay for international postage (we live in different countries now, albeit neighbors).

I waited for another two weeks and received no information until she appeared one night to apologise for what must be the fourth time. She said she kept forgetting to take the stuff in her car in the mornings and proceeded to have a short, pleasant, and surprisingly warm text exchange with me. I honestly did trust her when she said she'd post the next day.

That was two weeks ago. No contact since.

I'm ready to dismiss any practical, more innocent explanations at this point and am inclined to think she is holding things hostage so I continue to engage with  her. I really didn't want to arrive at this point but my only choice now is to ramp up the drama and establish some form of assertiveness, when I have minimal leverage, or accept both she/my stuff is lost.

Question is how? I've been diplomatic, i've approached the subject delicately, i've given her way more time and understanding than anyone reasonably should and i'm still getting callously shafted by this silly game.

Surely she will be able to see I have more than enough justification for being confrontational, but i'm scared that if I execute this wrongly it could make things a whole lot worse.

Help.

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[Mutt]

I don’t agree with how she is holding an item of yours for the potential later on of it being a reason for contact. I would feel frustrated if I couldn’t reason with the other person.

It’s been three months so there’s probably some strong emotions on both sides if you ramp things up from your side that gives her unwarranted attention and she knows that it’s pushing your buttons.

I’d suggest to step away from it for a few days to gain some clarity. Are you two talking about anything else? There are no judgements from me like I said you’ve been split up for three months and things can emotionally be raw so there might be some angry moments from either side.

I’m just wondering if there’s something else going on that could cause angry feelings on either side.

Are you two texting, calling, emailing etc Are there heated exchanges between you two?

[ThisIsMyTruthTellMeYours]

I know right, I feel like i'm talking to a brick wall. An emotionally complex brick wall with so many hidden intentions.

I have no idea how she's feeling, sometimes I think sending my stuff and her memory of me just isn't important to her anymore, could be wrong though.

Thanks to therapy and the distraction of hunting for work i'm in a relatively good place. Don't get me wrong there are many moments I feel overwhelmed and seeing her social media activity still triggers so much anxiety for me. I've moved from being totally incapacitated by grief to feeling deep disappointment that the r/s may not have ever been 'real'. Sometimes I do fantasise about eventual reconciliation, picturing her admitting how unreasonable she was and demonstrating a lot of self work, causing me to reveal lessons i've learnt about myself etc. So yes it's still quite raw, potentially for both of us.

You're right it's pushing my buttons and she's exploiting that. It's messing with my boundaries because i'm trying to let her come to me and project that I value myself more than diving into distress, yet she knows this issue broke my resolve once. I oscillate from thinking non-engagement helps sustain my image of independence and strength to it might just confirm my placidity and unwillingness to challenge.

She is interested in what's happening in my life. Though contact has resolved around this issue recently she always wanders from the point and ascertains how I am. I don't know of any cause for her to feel angry, maybe she regrets the enabling effect of my codependency but I know now is not the time to grovel over that. I do slightly resent how quickly she let me go, not fighting for us after giving her everything, makes me feel used, wondering if her feelings were ever real. If I act up and she argues back (unlikely, she was more the silent treatment type), I worry I'll say something stupid, insensitive and not necessarily true about all that.

So no, no heated exchanges. Just a little coldness and her playing the game of letting me be the last message. No emails, the last call from her was 2 months ago. Contact is sporadic, every couple weeks, it feels like she is running out of reasons to permit contact and is scared of losing the last one, even when i've said i'm happy to be there for her at any time.

Until she admits there's a problem from her end I can't have a conversation about what might change this, no matter how much I feel that's needed.

[Mutt]

The fact that she is still contacting you shows that there is still an attraction level but a low one, I'm sorry to say that, if you're trying to get her back then I wouldn't try to force action I would give her space and time that will help to increase the level of attraction as well because you're not doing anything on your end to impact that in a negative way.

It's not an easy situation to be in if you just want to get your stuff back but I think that she will eventually relinquish it if she has positive thoughts about you and what I mean by that is if you were threatening her ( I know that you're not going to do that ) or triggered shame etc then that would have her retain negative thoughts about you and she won't be co-operative then. I think play this one out, it's definitely not fun to not get your things back but I think that your best chance is to do nothing for now and be patient. If you want her back then this method will help you in that regards as well.

I sense that you probably had a feeling that there was not much that you could do at the moment if anything at all hence why you were reaching out for help.

[ThisIsMyTruthTellMeYours]

Yeah space and time should change things hopefully. I have to keep reminding myself that because of her disordered nature I can't trust the efficacy of 'normal' dealings with her.

I realise now that I may have caused her to feel shame a couple of months ago. She brought up the subject of my things and I asked if I could call her briefly to ask a question, that question being 'was it me or you?' essentially. I thought it was a fair question because when we split up she first blamed 'differences between us' before focusing on her mental health, and that made me wonder if she was obscuring the truth to spare my feelings - now I see how it could be interpreted as just forcing her to make me feel better by blaming herself. Of course, I still didn't really know how BPD worked then and I regret doing that on the advice of my cousin.

It's weird how negative thoughts about a person would make you retain reminders of them.

Yeah I kinda knew that patience was the right course of action, I just needed a second opinion. If experience proves anything it's that I can't apply my neurotypical logic to our r/s.

Thanks for always being here for me Mutt, you're a legend as we say here in the UK.

[Mutt]

I thought it was a fair question because when we split up she first blamed 'differences between us' before focusing on her mental health, and that made me wonder if she was obscuring the truth to spare my feelings

Let's take BPD out of the equation for a second and how women communicate with men in general - men do not pick up on hints very easily. We're physically bigger and often women don't want to be confronted in a manner that makes it akward or possibly difficult for the man to take the hint for example if a man wanted to know why she broke up with him and in this example it's because he's too clingy can you imagine what it would be like for her to give an explanation and respond back to that when you have a man trying to reason or plead with her especially if he was being in fact clingy "What do you mean I'm clingy?"

I think that she probably hinted at this in the past before getting to this point and you probably missed the clues.

It's weird how negative thoughts about a person would make you retain reminders of them.

Think of it this way and I'll use the previous example with a boyfriend being told that he was too clingy and let's say that it got to his ego and he started becoming defensive about it and eventually he gets angry because she's breaking up with him and he's trying to plead with her and she's made up her mind and won't have it now that last interaction that that boyfriend had with her is not fun, it's not pleasant and you're going to conjure up negative feelings at the thought of that last interaction so you need to give it time for her to start missing you and thinking about the positive thoughts about you and that takes time.

My point is be pleasant and light hearted and your girlfriend will appreciate that, you'll appreciate that, if you flip that the other way and the other person is giving you a hard time or they are trying to make you talk about things that you don't want to talk about in that moment or perhaps bring it up at the wrong time - that's not fun. You'll remember those interactions but at some point if the other person is not pressing you and gives you space you'll start to think about them and you'll start to think about positive thoughts only.

Thanks for always being here for me Mutt, you're a legend as we say here in the UK.

Thank you so much for the compliment kisaacs68  

Can you think of what it was that caused the break up?

What do you think that you need to work on?

[ThisIsMyTruthTellMeYours]

That all makes a lot of sense. I trust she'll come around eventually with the necessary space and time.

Thank you so much for the compliment kisaacs68  

Can you think of what it was that caused the break up?

What do you think that you need to work on?

The break up was complicated. She was slightly aloof for a few days, was complaining of feeling uncertain about her identity and spoke of a new plan to see a therapist twice a week. The trigger on the last night I saw her likely had a lot to do with it. Basically I tried to say I missed her being away that week by saying I hadn't spent much time with her before I was due to fly home. She took that to mean 'you're not doing enough', got really offended, accused me of saying a 'PLEASE READty thing' and of being ungrateful for everything she had done for me.

I was so shocked that my own innocent vulnerability had been twisted against me that I pleaded with her to see I didn't mean any malice, she responded with a horrifying silence and didn't even look at me. I was so upset because I couldn't see what was wrong with what I said, felt as if she just changed the rules to make her the victim.

She gave me the silent treatment for a couple days as she needed time to 'cool off' before getting back in touch. I said I just wanted to talk it over. Nothing.

Sure enough I broke and asked her if she was ok. She responded by saying she's not sure if things will work out and cited 'differences between us', adding 'you're a great guy and you deserve happiness, I don't think it's with me'. Then she moved to therapy had given her a fresh sense of 'clarity' and 'new perspective on life', closing with 'i'm not able for a relationship'.

When she finally called me she said all sorts of things that I just accepted from that point:

'it's not about what happened', 'I don't want you to believe it's your fault', 'not able for a relationship', 'I can't have conversations', 'not fair on you to wait for me to get better, I don't know how long... weeks, months, 1 yr', 'i've never allowed myself to be single', 'you made me very happy', 'this isn't goodbye'.

Over the next few days she called me crying because she felt alone, she messaged me calling herself a heartbreaker, I said she's going through a rough patch, she said 'this is my whole life. i just PLEASE READ everything up and hurt people doing it'. I told her events are just clouding her self-perception and to think of the joy she has given people. The next day she asked if my family hated her. With all of this I was understanding and tried to diminish her self-hatred.

I certainly need to work on low self-esteem and lack of assertiveness issues, all the traits that made me codependent, caretaking her every insecurity at the expense of my own needs and establishing very poor boundaries. To occupy a positive light in her mind though I think it's just confidence and appearing productive in my life.

[Mutt]

to work on low self-esteem and lack of assertiveness issues, all the traits that made me codependent, caretaking her every insecurity at the expense of my own needs and establishing very poor boundaries. To occupy a positive light in her mind though I think it's just confidence and appearing productive in my life.

That's good that you acknowledged and I think that this a good place to work on yourself or if you already are with a T or you're doing your own work then keep doing it. The fact that she still has your stuff and she knows that it's of value to you means that it gives her the opportunity  to engage later on it's a connection as you said so yourself it seems like reasons to be in touch are beginning to become more challenging. You're on the bettering board, you want advice on how to improve a r/s and not on how to wind one down and get your stuff back, so if you want it back now what place are you coming from?

Don't take it the wrong way, you're listening to her at face value and you're probably getting frustrated and feeling angry that's normal you want your things back if she's telling you that she's not in a mental space to be in a r/s. I think that she's testing you she probably wants to remain in the r/s but she's scared because she has moved to therapy as you put it, she obviously feels guilt and she feels something about breaking up because of how it would be perceived by your family.

I think that she's testing in the sense that she wants to see what your true resolve is during a period where there is something important she has to do and pay attention to for herself or if there is something that is going to be getting in the middle of both of you in the r/s and how you are going to deal with it.

You could say something like " Life has it's ups and downs you have the good times and the bad times and when you have a more challenging period in your life, I'm not the type of guy that only hangs in there during the good times and will bail at the first site of something challenging. I understand that this is something challenging for you and I think that you're brave for taking this on if you decided otherwise let me know I'll be here for you"

I think that you're in a good place right now, you're not going to get your stuff today I think that you'll get it eventually, you're still interested in her and I can see how this would push anybody's buttons but you could also think of it as another test - are you staying grounded if she pushes you. Stay centered - go with the flow and take this time for yourself and for her to heal and think about things but if you want to get back to her don't press on this matter with the thing that you want to get from her.

[ThisIsMyTruthTellMeYours]

That's good that you acknowledged and I think that this a good place to work on yourself or if you already are with a T or you're doing your own work then keep doing it. The fact that she still has your stuff and she knows that it's of value to you means that it gives her the opportunity  to engage later on it's a connection as you said so yourself it seems like reasons to be in touch are beginning to become more challenging. You're on the bettering board, you want advice on how to improve a r/s and not on how to wind one down and get your stuff back, so if you want it back now what place are you coming from?

The overriding motivation is I am still interested in her in the long term. If backing off helps achieve that by preserving harmony and forcing her to miss me then i'm all for it.

I think that she's testing in the sense that she wants to see what your true resolve is during a period where there is something important she has to do and pay attention to for herself or if there is something that is going to be getting in the middle of both of you in the r/s and how you are going to deal with it.

You could say something like " Life has it's ups and downs you have the good times and the bad times and when you have a more challenging period in your life, I'm not the type of guy that only hangs in there during the good times and will bail at the first site of something challenging. I understand that this is something challenging for you and I think that you're brave for taking this on if you decided otherwise let me know I'll be here for you"

I communicated a similar sentiment in the process of breaking up. I said her MH is of no relevance in determining my feelings and that i'd never forgive myself if I walked away from the beauty of what we had. I emphasised that if there were any conditions I could fulfill to make it work while she embarks on this personal journey then i'm happy to do that - that's when she retorted with the supposed unfairness of making me wait. She knows the door is open for her if/when she feels ready and my circumstances allow it.

I attempted to express that solidarity in a letter I almost sent a month ago. It mainly covered the revelations I had experienced re-BPD/my own faults i.e. not assuring her I wouldn't bail on her over the trivial volatility that occurred. I wanted her to know i'm really proud of her for wanting to bravely confront her mind head on and that I will remain kind because that's the only thing that will extinguish the cycles of hurt. Nonetheless I decided there were too many risks in sending it with all the subjects it covered and risk of triggering shame.

Maybe i'll get a chance to convey all that in future. For now though most people say it's better to convey loving strength through my actions and being receptive towards her.

[Mutt]

That is well said so were you angry at her because you felt hurt? Is that why you wanted the item ASAP?

[ThisIsMyTruthTellMeYours]

To be honest I was more angry at myself for couple months, like I had failed her in some way. Then I suppose I started to develop a little resentment towards her, I felt my own fear of abandonment rising within myself and despised how she could just seemingly let go so easily after all the ambitions we had for the future/while I was so committed.

Lately I think I began to feel as though she was just taking advantage of me and how naturally amenable I am, not helped by people I know incessantly saying I should just stand up for myself etc. As with all these emotions however there comes a time when I step back and realise she probably isn't fully in control of how she behaves/even understands why, and then I relax a little.

That's something I wish she knew, that I understand her so much better now and don't harbour any hatred as a result.

[Mutt]

To be honest I was more angry at myself for couple months, like I had failed her in some way.

It sounds like your trying your best so go easy on yourself and cut yourself some slack, you're trying to get help obviously you care about her and yourself, you're trying to make things better. That's a great attitude to have - you're being constructive 

how she could just seemingly let go so easily after all the ambitions we had for the future/while I was so committed.

That's completely understandable - you are pouring yourself into this and you're probably reading the situation and feeling like there is an indifference coming from her end. I think that a lot of people could relate to that.

know incessantly saying I should just stand up for myself etc.

I heard a quote the other day "If you don't stand up to her how are you going to stand up for her?" and it sounds easier said than done, I'm just reaching here but there might be a part of you that anxious part that is worried that if you lose her then you may not get her back or that you may not get someone else, but sticking up for yourself and showing that you have limits and you remain centered during those times is a healthy and attractive quality.

As with all these emotions however there comes a time when I step back and realise she probably isn't fully in control of how she behaves/even understands why, and then I relax a little.

That's good you're putting yourself in the other person's shoes and that is important in r/s's but don't sacrifice yourself either, she may not understand that maybe she over stepped a boundary because it's not communicated or you're it is communicated and you're not defending that boundary.

That's something I wish she knew, that I understand her so much better now and don't harbour any hatred as a result.

Hang on to this thought and come back it to it in the future, you can convey that you understand her by using validation for example because everybody naturally wants to be heard but you when you validate her it will make her feel like you hear what she is saying. Do it through your actions, you won't need to tell her, just do it.

Above all, go easy on yourself, day by day step by step.