Can you tell if a pwBPD is lying about childhood abuse?

[HealingForMe]

My exBPDgf kept telling me how lucky I was that she was forgiving me, despite that it was her abusing me. After we broke up, she even told anyone who would listen that I had raped her because we had sex when she had been drinking. I would tell her we shouldn't but she wouldn't take no for an answer. She would be persistent and manipulative as only a pwBPD can be until I gave in.

I used to get upset how ungrateful she was for all the things I've done for her, but now I realise she's very sick and I I'm the one who should be grateful I got out when I did

[Sofie]

Just wanted to comment that I really feel you on this one. I think that I have mostly recovered from my relationship with my BPDex, but this is a subject which still really haunts me a bit.

My BPD ex told me that not only had her father subjected her to incest, he had also made child porn movies of her and sold her into child prostitution. The things she told me that she had been subjected to was truly the stuff of nightmares and it broke my heart to think that she had suffered these experiences.

When we were together, I believed her 100% - the way I could see how affected she was by her own accounts of what had happened, the many classical symptoms of post-sexual abuse she showed, etc.

To make a long story short and spare you the details, I later found out that many of the stories she had told me simply didn't add up - couldn't practically have happened. It is still mind-boggling to me that to this day I AM certain that she was subjected to some kind of sexual abuse for a variety of reasons, but it seems there was no real telling where truth stopped and the lies began with her. I am certain that she actually believed her own lies to some extent - no one could be as convincing as she was otherwise.

[Tolou]

I believe something happened to my BPDgf, I do. I don't know how much of it she actually remembered, but she remembered enough to know.  She also disclosed this to me very early on, prior to us begining to date.  And she mentioned it in a text message, and my heart-broke.  Then next day when I saw her and just wanted to give her a hug, she acted like it was no big deal.  I think she failed to realize because of her immaturity to understand what saying that to someone who cares about you, makes them feel.  I am quite sure she gained sympathy from it, and played off the whole victim role very well, but I don't think she understand the complete reality of the statement.

Sadly, after I began becoming intitmate with her, I had wanted to stop.  I told, I didn't want to do etc... . with her anymore because I felt like I with a child, it was very akward, and very strange.  Unlike anything I have ever experienced before, I almost felt like I was the person harming the child... . never again for me... .

[goldylamont]

if you go over to the Parents board you will see many families dealing with being falsely accused of abuse. my ex accused her biological father of abuse and then later denied it, although he was a confirmed alcoholic that had been pretty much cut out of their family. in the end she was the only one still in contact with him... . weird secretive phone calls where she would go off and talk to him. so, i'm not sure what happened but i know she was lying one way or the other.

my ex also would accuse her mother of being uncaring, etc. but over time i began to realize that this was completely unfair projection of her mother. it's impossible to know what went on in childhood but what i do know is that my ex would unfairly cast people in a negative light (including me).

while recognizing that something probably happened, it's important for all of us to realize that the stories we heard may not be truthful in full or at all. it may not be a bad idea to read some on the parents/family board to see how the situation affects them also. parents are often unnecessarily viewed negatively because of lies told by pwBPD.

[Ochrecrimson]

This has also happened to me. My second marriage was in my 40’s with a man in his 50’s. We just got divorced after 8 years… the last three years he kept attempting to kill himself and blamed me because of small things: I got a text from someone at 8pm (he refused to look at it when I tried to be transparent about it), I took off my wedding ring to knead dough (he said it meant i was leaving him), so many other eggshells. He told me about two things that happened as a teenager that he never told anyone else. But the people involved he remained close to. Before we got married he said he wanted to save sex for after marriage because we were Catholic. I didn’t care but agreed for his sake. Then after we got married he kept rejecting me. Told me I was too fat, he’s too stressed, the chores weren’t done, can’t do it in the morning, can’t at night, can’t on an empty stomach…. Etc… always excuses. We went to 5 marriage counselors/sex therapists. (We are both therapists… he was a new one). When the sex therapist gave us the assignment of scheduled sex and I need to initiate…. I tried one night and had to stop after 15 seconds because he seemed off. So six month later I discovered he was telling this therapists that I sexually abused him. He then kept saying he didn’t believe my own story of being raped (once in my life by a known person). He said he thought it probably happened but that I wanted it. That’s when I realized he was probably projecting…. None of his “sexual abuse” stories were real. They were situations he engaged in and then felt bad about… so he created lies that protect his ego. I then found out their devout Catholic was creating fake Facebook pages where he could indulge in communities of satanic ritual, demon worship, witchcraft…. He was running up credit card bills and ordering statues of Baphomet and Lilith to be delivered to a public locker so I would not see them….

He was abandoned as a child. His teenage mother gave him to his father’s parents to raise when he was 6. But beyond that…. The sexual abuse stories all happened when he was 12-18. One by his grandmother, two by his mother’s sisters. He told one psychiatrist during one of his many hospitalizations that he kept attempting suicide so I would not leave him but he doesn’t actually love me and thought I had molested him.

I do not think those stories were true. I think the way he kept dismissing MY actual experience was a projection and his telling others that I abused him made me realize how easily he uses others to gain pity with new sources of supply..

[SendingKindness]

My uBPD daughter has told many lies about abuse by me, starting about 4 years ago, for reasons I don’t understand. She told me she had had some therapy and did psychedelic drugs and then had all these new memories. For example, she says I whipped her daily from the age of 3, that I hired rapists  to rape her and I locked her in a garden she’d and tried to burn it down. Nothing like this ever happened, and she had a happy childhood with a loving family, but she has told these things to many people. She grew up in a small community where people knew her well and know these things didn’t happen. She moved to the other side of the country where no one knows her family and sometimes I wonder if that is so she can tell these lies and not be questioned about them. She is now estranged from most family members because of these false allegations. She uses these lies to blame me for things that are not going well in her life and to try to extract financial support. She has been telling these lies for about 4 years now as far as I’m aware and I think she may actually believe them now. It is a very sad situation snd one I still don’t really understand. Before this experience, I would have said people who recall sexual abuse should be believed. Now I know it is not always true.

[HoratioX]

This is a very intriguing question because with one ex -- the one who was diagnosed with anxiety, CPTSD, and perhaps BPD by three different therapists, respectively -- she spoke of horrible physical and psychological childhood abuse, including sexual.

Yet, she lied so much -- she actually said more than once she lied all the time -- I did start to doubt how much of what she said was true. To hear her tell it, both her father and her brother(s) sexually abused her. She had an ex she said she was no longer with but was cheating on me with (and, I suppose, with me on him) and told me she didn't like having sex with him because he reminded her of her brother. And yet she wouldn't not cheat with him.

Interestingly, I was aware of another relationship where the woman claimed to have been sexually abused as a child by family members. Years later, she claimed her ex had sexually assaulted her. Why years later is anyone's guess, though I'm thinking now she must have had something like BPD, but out of the blue she tried to get him fired from his job. He denied it, of course, and thankfully, he had a bunch old texts and emails that just blew enough holes in those accusations she had to rescind them.

But it's terrifying to think what might have happened if he didn't have something because his employers came at him like he had to prove he didn't do something rather than she had to prove he did.

These are scary, truly destructive people in some cases. 

[Pensive1]

I agree with what many have written above.

My BPD ex was sexually abused as a teen. I have no doubt it actually occurred. In her case, it was her stepfather, who had malignant NPD. Everyone in the family recognizes how physically and emotionally abusive he was, and boundaries in the family were really messed up. And sexual abuse in childhood is a fairly common antecedant for BPD. One unfortunate consequence in my ex's case is that her initial imprint, for sexual experience, was on her stepfather. So she generally goes for romantic partners that are based on that templace. It's classic "repetition compulsion". With only a few exceptions, her romantic partners have all have had NPD, and much of what she's said about them to me is verifiable (e.g., her second husband carried on an affair with her sister for ten years, then dumped her for her sister, etc.). I was one of the few exceptions, and it was by far the longest relationship she'd had, but when an extreme stressor occurred, she monkeybranched and dumped me for another NPD guy.

As far as "luring" - I think it's common for people with BPD to recite ad nauseum how they've been victimized in life. And I think people with BPD often look for somebody sympathetic to that in a romantic partner.

I think it's also occasionally possible for people with major psych issues to come to believe that they'd been sexually abused when that's not the case. I've been in therapy groups with individuals where I've thought that was likely true. But I think it's less common.

[ChooseHappiness]

I don't know if you can ever know for certain if abuse occurred. My ex accused her father of abuse a few years back and cut all ties with him, but the abuse seemed to consist of a spanking once and otherwise gruff behaviour. After that, she accused pretty much everyone of abuse. Now that we're going through a divorce, she's accused me of various abusive behaviours. Thankfully, I also have texts from her contradicting her own accusations.

I was always a bit skeptical about her past abuse claims and thought she was overreacting. Now that I'm the target of those claims, I don't believe any accusation she's made in the past.

So yes, I think abuse has definitely happened in the past with some BPDs. But I think a lot of them just fabricate it to justify whatever it is they're trying to justify.

[PeteWitsend]

I don't know if you can ever know for certain if abuse occurred.
...

Agree.  They're such unreliable narrators, and will claim anything if they feel it will benefit them in the moment, that you have to take all their claims with a grain of salt.

After all I went through, I kinda look at it this way: maybe BPDxw was abused and maybe she wasn't... but in the end, it's purely academic, because I didn't accept how she behaved and how she treated me, and after a certain point, being abused is not an excuse for abusing others around you. 

Knowing whether she was actually abused or not might matter in therapy... if she was willing to go to that and work on herself.   But to me, I just have to remember not to base my own actions and decisions on her claims.  She's shown a capacity to invent whole situations out of cloth, so I'm not going to be concerned about anything or believe her unless I see it with my own eyes.

[Kashi]

My ex didn't accuse her family, but she felt someone else had some sexual intentions when she was a child.

I know one other man while she was with me, she accused of intentions that were predatory and he went to court

I question that

Then she accused me of the same thing (kind of) and then flipped and said she never thought that

Then she accused some person at work without a doubt that was just completely not true.  There was no evidence.

There was a feeling he was creepy.

I'm a woman, sometimes I feel a bit creeped out about men at work who don't respect your space.   For example, they get too close and you step back and they step back into your space.   You should be able to step back, and the person realizes hey they are just protecting that space between you.  You are work, you are not friends, you don't want people stepping over that boundary. Sometimes people have no awareness.  So, I can imagine how someone with trauma would react to that.

BPD I think that gets blown out of proportion.

But also, they put themselves into positions where that can get convoluted.

They can have moments where they are validated and all of a sudden, they think they need to share themselves with that person.   I think they extend themselves into that validation and then think oh my god is this what I want but they are stuck in it.

Child abuse is something like that.  It's an adult making a child feel like they are special and safe.   The child in a way goes into that space and they don't know that they shouldn't.  The adult has now has trapped them in some kind of reality.  One where they feel guilty for wanting to be loved but that love is not as it should be with a child and adult.  These people know how to work that.   That is the child's sexual abuse shame.  That is the child thinking they deserved the abuse; they somehow attracted it.  The guilt. THE SHAME. For love.  They are told its ok this is love.

Where does that come from? That doesn't come from nowhere.

It might be distorted for BPD as adults, but it come from somewhere.

Someone leveraged it in them.  Somehow.

Somewhere a line was crossed.   That could be non sexual but the idea of that closeness placed in their mind and a line crossed.

[Kashi]

Could I also just say

Sexual child abuse is so rife and the world sticks their head in the sand about it

OH no it doesn't happen in our family or community!

Well, I am sorry the ugly truth is it does

It happens to little boys and girls ALL THE TIME

What we need is for MEN to stand UP and be angry.

That is what it will take for it to stop

Not blaming men.  But GOOD MEN to be ANGRY

Not look away that their gender is creating this.  Mostly.

Do you understand?

Men are the solution not the problem.

SO yes, I think MANY BPD are sexually traumatized somehow.  If they aren't then they had BPD or Narc parents and some very dodgy family dynamics. That bordered on relationships that crossed boundaries.

Off my soap box.  I just wish men would be angry enough to stand up and not feel everyone is pointing at them as the problem but looking at them for the solution.

Feel strong in that role.

When is that going to happen?

[Kashi]

@SendingKindness

What about the men around you. Did they do something?

I was abused my uncle. I was 4 years old. 

I remember what I was wearing.  I remember exactly the day.

I remember fighting him.  I remember running into the kitchen where my mother was and his wife.

He did NOT flinch.  Not at all. 

He knew that a four year old couldn't explain what happened.

That PLEASE READ distorts in your head.   I know what happened.

You tell people they don't believe you.  You tell your mother, and she says don't say anything.

There are creeps right next to your kids.

There is.

Wake up people.  These creeps are so sure of themselves and know how to destroy little minds.

They know how to do it right under the parent's noses.

It's not paranoia it happens all the time.

[Kashi]

Sorry I ranted.

I just need people to wake up.

Something happened to them and a series of things.   

It's distorted their minds.

Genes, narcs, bpd parents, people stepping over their boundaries as a child.

It's not out of thin air.   They are now the result of that.

[PeteWitsend]

Sorry I ranted.

I just need people to wake up.

Something happened to them and a series of things.   

It's distorted their minds.

Genes, narcs, bpd parents, people stepping over their boundaries as a child.

It's not out of thin air.   They are now the result of that.

No need to apologize.  I don't think anyone is denying it happens, and my own understanding of child abuse is that it's depressingly more widespread than our society acknowledges. 

When larger abuse scandals hit the public, I think we tend to assume they're limited to *that* instance, and are not systemic, or linked to powerful people who get away with it.  Not everyone is held accountable, but we as a society ignore that and move on.

But we're talking about specific cases we endured, and trust we put in people that we later learned were not trustworthy. 

Like I said above, I think when considering whether a BPD-partner was or was not actually abused, whether you decide to believe them or not, it's important to remember they're not trustworthy, and act accordingly.  We really can't know what happened unless we were there, or I suppose people we did trust were there and can verify it. 

And regardless, being a victim of abuse doesn't justify their continued abuse of those close to them, and their own lack of personal accountability.  You may sympathize with their lot in life, but not excuse their behave, or suffer from it. 

[PeteWitsend]

...

BPD I think that gets blown out of proportion.

But also, they put themselves into positions where that can get convoluted.

They can have moments where they are validated and all of a sudden, they think they need to share themselves with that person.   I think they extend themselves into that validation and then think oh my god is this what I want but they are stuck in it.

...

I saw this sort of thing a couple times with BPDxw.  I think their lack of impulse control plays into it.  They don't consider how the OTHER person may behave, and be genuinely surprised when they turn out to be another human being with their own wants and needs, and not just a shoulder for the pwBPD to cry on.   

I think of times when I was dating BPDxw and wasn't there for her *immediately* ... for example, she locked herself out of the house, and I wasn't able to get there as soon as she would've liked.  I was at work, and had to take a long bus ride and train ride to get home.  So she would reach out to other guys she knew were single and would come give her attention.  She didn't consider the consequences. And of course, that invites a bad situation... they get angry when they realize she's using them, and/or refuse to take "I have a boyfriend" for an answer.  She's lucky in both cases nothing worse happened to her than getting groped by some creep at a bar, and me and him nearly coming to blows after a shoving match.  In the other, the guy backed off when I showed up. 

Whether she would've actually cheated on me, I don't know, but these were huge  - both the lack of loyalty and fidelity to the relationship, and the way she'd put herself in dodgy situations like that you could see playing into a predator's hands. 

[PeteWitsend]

of course... she was an adult when she did these things, and a mom in the 2nd case. 

getting abused as a child is a different issue.  I do not blame children for that sort of thing; they don't bear any responsibility for their lot in life.