need help understanding her

[Depression = 72% of members]

ok so i sent my uNPD/BPDxgf the following text yesterday.

"I wanted to ask you some things, I feel that if we work together we can give our kids and the baby a whole family. we all could benefit so much if we came back togetheras a couple and 1 family. what can i do for you? what can i do to work things out with you? what if me and L(my son) moved in and L started going to B's(her daughter)school, would this help bring us back together? I know its not the only thing to work out but its a start. I have some ideas that mightbe helpful to you and the kids, putting you on my health insurance is one idea, I know you talked about being a stay at home mom, that could be a option once i start making more money, please think about it."

I didnt get a response from her but she did call me 3 hrs later. let me explain a few facts first before i talk about the phone conversation.

we havent spoke on the phone since mid dec 2012 and it wasnt a good phone call lots of fighting. all our texts since then have been bad as well mostly insults thrown at me by her here is a link of the last texts.https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193993.msg12198244#msg12198244

we rent a house and I pay half of the bills but me and my son are living with my parents and have been since aug 2012, the lease is up in aug 2013. she is 8 months pregnant and is due to give birth in a few weeks, I have no info about our baby and she refuses to give any.

Ok back to the phone conversation, she really suprised me by calling and when she does call its always very important to her because she doesnt trust texts to get her point across to me. I was expecting to get yelled at when i answered but she actually sounded friendly and said hey in a sweet voice, she usually jumps right in to yelling or her all bisness tone, it caught me off gaurd because i answered in my brace for impact voice. heres the conversation

me- Hello

her- hey "in a very sweet tone"

me-hey " in a much calmer voice"

her- I was calling to talk to you about your text you sent

me-ok

her-i cant be with someone who lives at home with there parents

me- well ,you wont let me come back to our house, how am i going to pay 2 rents if i move into my own place?

her- im tired of hearing your excuses, I know how much you make in a month you should be able to do it.

me-I will show you all my bills, i cant afford 2 rents.

her-I dont want to hear about your bills ive done the math you should be able to make it. I know it wont be easy for you, I cant have a R/S with you untill you can prove to me that you can be the man i thought you were. if you can do this than maybe we can get back together

me-ok if thats what it takes. I wanted to ask you about the baby

her- No! you dont get to ask me questions. im only talking to you about your R/S question, ok

me-ok

her-bye


ok I make 1600.00 a month I give her 700.00 for rent, car insurence is 45.00 a month ,cell phone is 60.00 a month, gas is 260.00 a month

thats 1065.00 for my bills excluding food for the month. that leaves me 535.00 to get food and rent and utilities for the month.

Im curious why she is doing this. she must know i cant really afford 2 rents. why is she giving me a goal so hard to complete? does it sound like she wants us to get back together? is she just messing with my head by setting a goal almost impossible to complete?

she is VERY bold and outspoken about things, I feel like if she was done with me she would say im done there is nothing you cand do to get us back together.

I have been painted black since july 2012, is this a way in her head for me to prove myself to her and be painted white again so she could be with me?

any thoughts are welcome

Im a mess right now because my daaughter will be born in the next week or 2 and i dont even know her name and i probably wont even be at the hospital when she is born let alone see her born :'( thats killing me

[Eco]

ok so i sent my uNPD/BPDxgf the following text yesterday.

"I wanted to ask you some things, I feel that if we work together we can give our kids and the baby a whole family. we all could benefit so much if we came back togetheras a couple and 1 family. what can i do for you? what can i do to work things out with you? what if me and L(my son) moved in and L started going to B's(her daughter)school, would this help bring us back together? I know its not the only thing to work out but its a start. I have some ideas that mightbe helpful to you and the kids, putting you on my health insurance is one idea, I know you talked about being a stay at home mom, that could be a option once i start making more money, please think about it."

I didnt get a response from her but she did call me 3 hrs later. let me explain a few facts first before i talk about the phone conversation.

we havent spoke on the phone since mid dec 2012 and it wasnt a good phone call lots of fighting. all our texts since then have been bad as well mostly insults thrown at me by her here is a link of the last texts.https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193993.msg12198244#msg12198244

we rent a house and I pay half of the bills but me and my son are living with my parents and have been since aug 2012, the lease is up in aug 2013. she is 8 months pregnant and is due to give birth in a few weeks, I have no info about our baby and she refuses to give any.

Ok back to the phone conversation, she really suprised me by calling and when she does call its always very important to her because she doesnt trust texts to get her point across to me. I was expecting to get yelled at when i answered but she actually sounded friendly and said hey in a sweet voice, she usually jumps right in to yelling or her all bisness tone, it caught me off gaurd because i answered in my brace for impact voice. heres the conversation

me- Hello

her- hey "in a very sweet tone"

me-hey " in a much calmer voice"

her- I was calling to talk to you about your text you sent

me-ok

her-i cant be with someone who lives at home with there parents

me- well ,you wont let me come back to our house, how am i going to pay 2 rents if i move into my own place?

her- im tired of hearing your excuses, I know how much you make in a month you should be able to do it.

me-I will show you all my bills, i cant afford 2 rents.

her-I dont want to hear about your bills ive done the math you should be able to make it. I know it wont be easy for you, I cant have a R/S with you untill you can prove to me that you can be the man i thought you were. if you can do this than maybe we can get back together

me-ok if thats what it takes. I wanted to ask you about the baby

her- No! you dont get to ask me questions. im only talking to you about your R/S question, ok

me-ok

her-bye


ok I make 1600.00 a month I give her 700.00 for rent, car insurence is 45.00 a month ,cell phone is 60.00 a month, gas is 260.00 a month

thats 1065.00 for my bills excluding food for the month. that leaves me 535.00 to get food and rent and utilities for the month.

Im curious why she is doing this. she must know i cant really afford 2 rents. why is she giving me a goal so hard to complete? does it sound like she wants us to get back together? is she just messing with my head by setting a goal almost impossible to complete?

she is VERY bold and outspoken about things, I feel like if she was done with me she would say im done there is nothing you cand do to get us back together.

I have been painted black since july 2012, is this a way in her head for me to prove myself to her and be painted white again so she could be with me?

any thoughts are welcome

Im a mess right now because my daaughter will be born in the next week or 2 and i dont even know her name and i probably wont even be at the hospital when she is born let alone see her born :'( thats killing me

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[somethingtolose]

You sound desperate... .  they typically hate desperation. Same thing happened to me, they treat you terribly until you can barely think straight, and then they wonder what happened to the old confident guy they once knew, the one that didn't need them.

She will only cooperate when she thinks you don't need her. You should be distant. You should be clear and short. Never beg for anything. The more you bend over backwards, the more she will want to push you away and hurt you.

I've read a lot of the posts that you written, you essentially need to start acting exactly the opposite. WATCH IT. They like to pursue people. They like to attract people that don't need them. You are doing the natural thing for someone that you love, but your instincts are wrong.

After the pregnancy, once she is stable, you need to figure out an exit strategy.

[laelle]

Your replies are just full of JADEing, they are not only invalidating and frustrating to you, but they invalidate her as well.

She stated her boundary - I will not be with someone who lives at home with their parents.  Its an unfair one to be sure, but she is a person with her own right to her own feelings, and you cant control her.  You can only control you with how you respond to it.

Why do you feel that you cant be in a relationship with me?  her answer... .  try to read between the lines, she is pulling from scattered emotions and it may not even be obvious to her.  :)o not JADE

Here is your SET statement.

I get what your saying., Its not a situation that I enjoy either.  It is the situation as it stands,  and thats the way it is.  I would even totally ignore the threat.  (She is not you and you are not her.  Two different people.)  If she then reemphasizes her threat to leave the relationship, let her know that its her choice how she wants to respond to the situation, and that you are open to any opinions she may have on the subject.

She will probably say something like, I just think your being (          a good response would be "I hear you"  :)rop the subject. If she wont let it drop.  you have several choices.  Offer to discuss how she feels that you can improve your situation at a later time.  You have to go (      , but you will be back later.  You can end the convo here and let her know again its her choice how she wants to handle that and you wont discuss it anymore.  And DONT.  Let it go, but dont re engage with that subject.  In the end, it is her choice, and not your responsibility.

You dont have to Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain yourself to her.

You already know this is not a "realistic" request and its insulting to you.  You control what you do.  

You cant rationalize her bizarre statement, but you can control how you react to them.

Hope this helps a little.

[Auspicious]

Things never got better for me in my time of craziness until I changed my perspective.

I had to change my perspective from "get her back at all costs" instead to "do what makes sense."

You already know that it makes no sense for her to hold you in contempt for living with your parents, when she kicked you out of your shared house that you pay for. Does it make sense to try to jump through any hoops based on this?

When you change your perspective, the dance changes.

[almost789]

It seems that you wil do whatever it takes to get her back. Including letting her CONTROL YOU. You know what she is settin g is unreasonable. Move out of your parents house, while your paying HER rent?. Dont ask any questions about YOUR child ? These are both ridiculous rules. And yet you say 'ok'. Get a backbone, draw YOUR reality what you will and will not accept. Your being a doormat and that is not attractive. And most importantly its not healthy for you. Make some decisions based in logic and stick to it. Even if it means losing her. Otherwise you are going to be controlled by this nonsensefor a lifetime. Heres the thing, you may be suprised that she has more respect for you when you tell her NO!

[Eco]

Thanks everyone for the input 

im going to tackle some of these topics in my next T session

[briefcase]

Eco,

With a new child coming any day now, it makes sense that you want to reach out to her and try to re-establish the relationship.  It also makes sense that she was more receptive than usual to you (even if she was unrealistic in her expectations).  It's good that you are talking to a T about this situation.  

She sure isn't giving you a lot to work with.  You might find in helpful to focus your energy here really studying the Lessons, especially validation and boundaries.  Each time you communicate with her is an opportunity for you to re-establish a bit more.  Take your recent phone call as an example:

me- Hello Answer the phone with confidence, not "braced for impact."  You are your own emotional leader (see "Seperation of Stuff" and ":)etachment" in the Workshops).

her- hey "in a very sweet tone"

me-hey " in a much calmer voice"

her- I was calling to talk to you about your text you sent

me-ok

her-i cant be with someone who lives at home with there parents

me- well ,you wont let me come back to our house, how am i going to pay 2 rents if i move into my own place?  Do you see how your response was defensive, right off the bat? (See "Stop making things worse" and study "JADE"; the ":)" stands for Defend).  Obviously, you can't just agree with this statement.  It's not realistic.  But, you can acknowledge that you hear her: "I see where you are coming from." (See "Validation" watch the Fruzzetti video in the workshop.)

her- im tired of hearing your excuses, I know how much you make in a month you should be able to do it.

me-I will show you all my bills, i cant afford 2 rents. Now, you are arguing the point with her.  (That's the "A" in JADE).  Where is she coming from with this statement?  What is she feeling?  Now is a good time for more validation.  "You sound upset" or "I know you feel frustrated by excuses." Notice that you aren't really agreeing with her, just acknoweldging you hear what she is feeling.  

her-I dont want to hear about your bills ive done the math you should be able to make it. I know it wont be easy for you, I cant have a R/S with you untill you can prove to me that you can be the man i thought you were. if you can do this than maybe we can get back together

me-ok if thats what it takes. I wanted to ask you about the baby Agreeing with her to get her back or keep the peace won't work.  A "SET" Statement here might have worked better (no guarantees).  Support: "I really appreciate your call.  I want to work with you to see if we can find some common ground.  I care about you and I care about our baby." Empathy: "I understand that our past problems have caused pain.  It's understandable that you want to be cautious and make sure I'm really committed to making this work.  No one wants to be hurt again."  Truth: "Right now, I really can't afford to move out and pay two rents.  I am open to working on the relationship in many other ways.  Let me know if that's something you want to talk about."

her- No! you dont get to ask me questions. im only talking to you about your R/S question, ok

me-ok You might want to communicate some of your boundaries about this issue.  You have a legal and moral right to be involved in your child's life, regardless of what happens with your relationship with her.  You don't need to argue, and you may want to do this in a seperate text or phone call, apart from the talk about reconciling. (See "Boundaries"

You are in a tough situation, and I really hope this works out how you want it to.  To be in a relationship with someone who has BPD means being an emotional leader in the relationship.  Learning these tools and reading the Lessons is a great place to begin.  

Good luck!  (and keep us posted.)

[almost789]

briefcase, I think these are great examples of validation. However, I find this form of communication difficult. I mean how long does it take one to come up with this stuff? I guess it takes a lot of practice.

[briefcase]

briefcase, I think these are great examples of validation. However, I find this form of communication difficult. I mean how long does it take one to come up with this stuff? It's just not natural. Is it possible to just spit this stuff out in a quick phone chat? Is it realistic? I guess it takes a lot of practice.

I sympathize.  It wasn't natural for me either.  In short, yes, I can validate "on the fly" in a conversation now.  I'm not perfect, but it comes much more naturally.  It takes practice and retraining your communication patterns. It's like learning a foreign language.  If you practice and then consciously immerse yourself in the "language" you become fluent.

I have a longer answer that I'd like to share, but I don't want to take over eco's important topic here.  I'll post more over in the validation workshop.  Thanks for asking about this.  I was not a believer in validation at first. . . .

[Auspicious]

briefcase, I think these are great examples of validation. However, I find this form of communication difficult. I mean how long does it take one to come up with this stuff? It's just not natural. Is it possible to just spit this stuff out in a quick phone chat? Is it realistic? I guess it takes a lot of practice.

I sympathize.  It wasn't natural for me either.  

It does take practice

Not only that - it's about much more than just learning a new technique. It's about learning to shift your thinking so that you actually can understand how somebody might feel the way that they do, even if you disagree with them about the facts of the situation. It's about learning to "let" other people feel what they feel.

[fakename]

hey briefcase, do you have any links of more example of how to talk with validation?

[Auspicious]

hey briefcase, do you have any links of more example of how to talk with validation?

Check out the communication section in our Lessons.

[Eco]

Thanks briefcase 

that info was helpful, I need more practise learning to validate. problim is the contact with her is very limited

[almost789]

Thank you Auspicious, I can see how it would take great practice. The difficulty with mine to though is hes fairly mute!  And he doeznt even know how to tell me what hes feeling. He did more before the splitting but after that communication of any feelings or depth at all is nonexsistent. Hard to communicate or validate someone who doesnt speak. I actually tried to read his mind and tell him what I thought he waz feeling and  validate that and it did work amazing. But, very few and far between where you can intuit what they feel and if they say nothing about what they feel... .  wth?

[iluminati]

If I'm reading your post correctly, you're paying the rent and bills on a place you don't live in.

First, who is on the lease?  If it's just you, I would call the cops, and let them sort it out.  Two, if it's both of you, just stop sending money, period.  It is cold to screw over your unborn child?  Yes.  That said, she was the one who kicked you out.  Make her own the consequences, and leave the custody issues to family court. 

I understand you want to straighten things out, especially with a baby on the way.  However, your wife needs to cooperate.  I agree with the other posters saying that she is testing your resolve that you'll be there for her no matter what.  However, there are limits to that support.  Supporting two households of a married couple is asking a lot, no matter what your income is. 

Pull the plug.  Now.  If she gets stupid about it, just inform the local child welfare authorities, and let them sort it out.  It's amazing what a court order and a 72 hour hold can accomplish.

[Auspicious]

It couldn't hurt to get some legal advice.

When my wife ran off, and demanded that I "support" her financially while she figured out what she wanted to do, a lawyer told me that in our state at least I was under no obligation whatsoever (in the absence of a court order to the contrary) to fund her desire to have a second separate household. She was welcome to come home and share our vehicles, living space, dinner, cable TV and so forth. I didn't have to provide any of those things (again, without a court order) for her to live separately somewhere just because she felt like it.

That's not your situation, but I'm just saying, a rational thing to do in odd situations is to get some legal advice as to what your valid choices are.

[almost789]

I Agree with Auspicious, Eco you really need to not only see your therapist on this but also start consulting attorneys. You can have a free consult in many cases. I forsee problems here with your baby if she wont even talk to you about the baby when you ask. Seems she may try to use the baby as some sort of manipulation of you. Do not allow this. Find out your legal options and preferably before her and do not let her start calling the shots, shes disordered.

[Eco]

If I'm reading your post correctly, you're paying the rent and bills on a place you don't live in.

thats correct

thanks for the replys everyone

First, who is on the lease?  If it's just you, I would call the cops, and let them sort it out.  Two, if it's both of you, just stop sending money, period.  It is cold to screw over your unborn child?  Yes.  That said, she was the one who kicked you out.  Make her own the consequences, and leave the custody issues to family court. 

we both are on the lease its up in aug, my lawyer told me it would look better for me if i continued to pay rent until the baby was born.

Seems she may try to use the baby as some sort of manipulation of you. Do not allow this.

I agree she will as she uses manipulation as her favorite tool, I wont allow that with my daughter

[iluminati]

Here is what I would do.  I would make sure the rent is paid through the end of the lease in August.  Make sure to get copies of the cashed checks from the bank, either the originals or the digital copies.  Also, make sure you get your receipts from the landlord.  That way, you can prove that you have continually paid the rent.  After that, just let the lease expire.  If she wants money for child support, let the courts sort it out.  The worse a court can do is ask you for 25% of your income, which would be a better deal than you have now.  Also, she would have to either get on the state or get a job.  Either way, it's not your problem.

At this point, she's made it clear that she wants you to support her living on her own.  You need to be about business at this point since she's making it about business.  At some point, you may be able to talk relationship, but now is not the time.