Guys- Lets Face the Facts and stop cheating ourselves.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I was going to just post this as a reply in in Ahhhh431's thread, ":)o you ever wonder if there is more that you could have done?", but I decided that it warrants a thread of its own-

Reality check time folks, for all of us, myself included.

It's time to stop punishing ourselves.  Be it regrets, feelings of inadequacy, feelings of failure, self doubt, or anger.

How many different peoples stories have we read on this board? and what percentage of them read almost exactly the same?

Nearly all of them.

Here is a generic outline that I am sure many of you will agree fits well enough to any individuals story:

the pwBPD:

-has been with MANY people before you

-has a bad past of one sort or another (be it drugs, abusive relationships, etc)

-has little to no gaps between their relationships; they are ALWAYS with someone

and

When you break up with them, they are, in NO time at all, with someone new.


OK people, lets face the facts here- 

1) All of the crazy, destructive, hurtful behaviors that our SO's carried out are not random.  They are so not random that there is a classified, diagnosable disorder that was created to describe those behaviors.  A mental illness.  Mental illness's imply that someone is abnormal and/or the things that characterize it are abnormal.

2) ALL of the people that came before us "failed" as well.  To anyone still entertaining doubt, the answer to that question is NOT that pwBPD are demigods floating above the rest of us and no mortal is good enough or worthy of their love or of making a relationship last with them.

3) Bad things sometimes happen to good people (For the sake of clarity here, when I say "good", I mean people who don't go looking for or asking for those bad things, intentionally or not).  But I don't believe in people being cursed, and the usually mile long history of failed relationships and hurtful occurrences in pwBPD's past are NOT a grand coincidence.

There is ONE common thread between ALL of the pwBPD's failed relationships.  The pwBPD.



I am not saying that what our BPDex's did to us should be excused. But i am also saying that we should not hate them either.  Be ever so thankful to have the capacity to truly and genuinely love someone.  To be able to treat them right and grow TOGETHER.  pwBPD will never have that luxury.  They are plagued by themselves much, much more than we ever were.  I have been and still am some days right there with many of you; I have self doubt, low self esteem, and genuinely question why I "wasn't good enough".

Again, certainly, people make mistakes.  And it is our duty to learn from them.  But we cannot kill ourselves for other peoples problems.  They are not our burdens to bear, as much as I may have tried to bear my BPDex's.


Please guys, when you are down, think about this.  Think about it and smile.  We have a way out, a way towards the light.  They most often times do not, and never will.  Be thankful.

[Octoberfest]

I was going to just post this as a reply in in Ahhhh431's thread, ":)o you ever wonder if there is more that you could have done?", but I decided that it warrants a thread of its own-

Reality check time folks, for all of us, myself included.

It's time to stop punishing ourselves.  Be it regrets, feelings of inadequacy, feelings of failure, self doubt, or anger.

How many different peoples stories have we read on this board? and what percentage of them read almost exactly the same?

Nearly all of them.

Here is a generic outline that I am sure many of you will agree fits well enough to any individuals story:

the pwBPD:

-has been with MANY people before you

-has a bad past of one sort or another (be it drugs, abusive relationships, etc)

-has little to no gaps between their relationships; they are ALWAYS with someone

and

When you break up with them, they are, in NO time at all, with someone new.


OK people, lets face the facts here- 

1) All of the crazy, destructive, hurtful behaviors that our SO's carried out are not random.  They are so not random that there is a classified, diagnosable disorder that was created to describe those behaviors.  A mental illness.  Mental illness's imply that someone is abnormal and/or the things that characterize it are abnormal.

2) ALL of the people that came before us "failed" as well.  To anyone still entertaining doubt, the answer to that question is NOT that pwBPD are demigods floating above the rest of us and no mortal is good enough or worthy of their love or of making a relationship last with them.

3) Bad things sometimes happen to good people (For the sake of clarity here, when I say "good", I mean people who don't go looking for or asking for those bad things, intentionally or not).  But I don't believe in people being cursed, and the usually mile long history of failed relationships and hurtful occurrences in pwBPD's past are NOT a grand coincidence.

There is ONE common thread between ALL of the pwBPD's failed relationships.  The pwBPD.



I am not saying that what our BPDex's did to us should be excused. But i am also saying that we should not hate them either.  Be ever so thankful to have the capacity to truly and genuinely love someone.  To be able to treat them right and grow TOGETHER.  pwBPD will never have that luxury.  They are plagued by themselves much, much more than we ever were.  I have been and still am some days right there with many of you; I have self doubt, low self esteem, and genuinely question why I "wasn't good enough".

Again, certainly, people make mistakes.  And it is our duty to learn from them.  But we cannot kill ourselves for other peoples problems.  They are not our burdens to bear, as much as I may have tried to bear my BPDex's.


Please guys, when you are down, think about this.  Think about it and smile.  We have a way out, a way towards the light.  They most often times do not, and never will.  Be thankful.

[bewildered2]

well done... . you are leaving the land called oz (that of the crazy people called borderlines) and moving back to the real world... . and you have grasped the essential... . that they are people too... . not demons... . but in fact very unwell people... . people to feel compassion for... . because it is not their fault that they are so troubled... . and that their troubled existence causes others so much hurt and pain.

you have seen the light. you understand. and you are now the bigger person.

congratulations on the progress you have made, it is truly commendable.

b2

 

[mango_flower]

I really needed to hear this tonight.  Thank you so much 

[Deleted]

Oktoberfest,

 

Awesome post. Well said.

[seeking balance]

Nice post - coming out of the FOG... . there may still be emotions of grief, anger and sadness, but reality is a good thing!

Fundamentally, I think this:

When you break up with them, they are, in NO time at all, with someone new.

Directly leads to this:

Be it regrets, feelings of inadequacy, feelings of failure, self doubt, or anger.

Anyone who is stuck - read, print out and reread this when you think about calling, texting or otherwise looking for any sort of emotional comfort from your ex.

1) All of the crazy, destructive, hurtful behaviors that our SO's carried out are not random.  They are so not random that there is a classified, diagnosable disorder that was created to describe those behaviors.  A mental illness.  Mental illness's imply that someone is abnormal and/or the things that characterize it are abnormal.

[Suzn]

Great thread Octoberfest

1) All of the crazy, destructive, hurtful behaviors that our SO's carried out are not random.  

Not random at all. There is a rational behind these behaviors. What do you think that is?

2) ALL of the people that came before us "failed" as well.

Did they "fail" or were they at a similar emotional maturity level with few or no boundaries?

3) Bad things sometimes happen to good people

This is very true Octoberfest. What can we do to protect ourselves in the future?  Hint* NC is not the answer to this question.

And it is our duty to learn from them.  

Yes, we have a responsibility to ourselves. What can we learn about ourselves from being in this relationship?

[Wanna Move On]

October, that was one of the most powerful posts I have ever read on this board. Thank you soo much for your insight!   

[mcc503764]

I was going to just post this as a reply in in Ahhhh431's thread, ":)o you ever wonder if there is more that you could have done?", but I decided that it warrants a thread of its own-

Reality check time folks, for all of us, myself included.

It's time to stop punishing ourselves.  Be it regrets, feelings of inadequacy, feelings of failure, self doubt, or anger.

How many different peoples stories have we read on this board? and what percentage of them read almost exactly the same?

Nearly all of them.

Here is a generic outline that I am sure many of you will agree fits well enough to any individuals story:

the pwBPD:

-has been with MANY people before you

-has a bad past of one sort or another (be it drugs, abusive relationships, etc)

-has little to no gaps between their relationships; they are ALWAYS with someone

and

When you break up with them, they are, in NO time at all, with someone new.


OK people, lets face the facts here- 

1) All of the crazy, destructive, hurtful behaviors that our SO's carried out are not random.  They are so not random that there is a classified, diagnosable disorder that was created to describe those behaviors.  A mental illness.  Mental illness's imply that someone is abnormal and/or the things that characterize it are abnormal.

2) ALL of the people that came before us "failed" as well.  To anyone still entertaining doubt, the answer to that question is NOT that pwBPD are demigods floating above the rest of us and no mortal is good enough or worthy of their love or of making a relationship last with them.

3) Bad things sometimes happen to good people (For the sake of clarity here, when I say "good", I mean people who don't go looking for or asking for those bad things, intentionally or not).  But I don't believe in people being cursed, and the usually mile long history of failed relationships and hurtful occurrences in pwBPD's past are NOT a grand coincidence.

There is ONE common thread between ALL of the pwBPD's failed relationships.  The pwBPD.



I am not saying that what our BPDex's did to us should be excused. But i am also saying that we should not hate them either.  Be ever so thankful to have the capacity to truly and genuinely love someone.  To be able to treat them right and grow TOGETHER.  pwBPD will never have that luxury.  They are plagued by themselves much, much more than we ever were.  I have been and still am some days right there with many of you; I have self doubt, low self esteem, and genuinely question why I "wasn't good enough".

Again, certainly, people make mistakes.  And it is our duty to learn from them.  But we cannot kill ourselves for other peoples problems.  They are not our burdens to bear, as much as I may have tried to bear my BPDex's.


Please guys, when you are down, think about this.  Think about it and smile.  We have a way out, a way towards the light.  They most often times do not, and never will.  Be thankful.

I couldn't have said it better myself! I will most definitely print this out and will refer to it often!  Thank you soo much for your words!

MCC

[Lao Tzu]

Dear BPD Family, (Sorry this is so long)

     As long as we're all in the mood for helpful revelation, here's one from me.  I was reading some posts from Tailspin today and she said we would have the key (I'm paraphrasing) to escaping from the obsession we all have with these BPD or BPD-like people if we understood that in every case the r/s with them hinged on our being allowed and encouraged to seek their approval.  She said if you can figure out why that would be so incredibly important to us we could get out of this mess inside our heads.  Finally, she added in some other posts that most nons are (or were) emotionally immature when they were with the pwBPD, something I can attest in my own situation.  She said we were all developmentally arrested at an earlier stage than most people.

     So, the pieces are all there for you... . cue the Jeopardy music... . did you get it yet?  Ding, ding ding! The answer, for me at least, was that the pwBPD recreated (probably not intentionally, but who knows) my mother for me.  Hey, I know, pretty sick, right?  And yet, as I thought about it, there were a dozen things about this girl that compared almost exactly with my mom.  Most importantly, the pwBPD showered me with the love and attention that no one other than a parent has ever done for any of us; basically worshipped us.  Who else ever did that? Yes, the answer is our parents. I'm not getting into the Oedipal implications of the sexual part, but I'm willing to be open minded enough to think that Freud might not have been a complete idiot when he described these things as essential to normal emotional maturation.

     I've felt pretty strongly that my total obsession with getting back with the pwBPD made absoloutely no sense on its face value.  I would never accept anyone "love bombing" me again, especially her, so there could be no 'idealization' phase now.  So, why would I have been willing, yesterday, to give up everything I have to be with her?  For the anger, lies, promiscuity and splitting phase? Unlikely.

     No ladies and germs, I regret to have to admit it but my pwBPD completely took on my mother's role and I was emotionally immature enough to let her do so.  I won't give you a sob story about my lack of nurturing as a kid; my mom did the best she could.  But when I was little I was completely desperate to get her attention and her approval.  I transferred that to this girl and my sick obsession has been, simply, to return to the condition where I got all the attention and approval I ever wanted.

     This explained why we all think this person is so unbelievably great in every way.  This is what we thought about our parent when we were little.  I was amazed that hundreds of the stories I read here not only mentioned that the pwBPD was very physically attractive (this is pretty subjective, of course), but that they were "off the charts intelligent" or something equivalent.  The latter is not really all that subjective, and generally people aren't even all that comfortable, generally, around others who are hyper-intelligent.  How could it be that BPD bestows higher than normal human intelligence and everyone just adores it?  Easy answer now: If you were looking at your girl and what your subconscious mind was seeing was, somehow, a surrogate for your parent, of course you would think they're very smart. All kids think their parents are very smart (for a while). The same goes for every other one of the traits we routinely give them.

     So, the answer (for me at least) is that I really don't love this girl.  I really love my somewhat screwed up old mom, and that's why I have never been able to give her up.  At this point it's a fairly simple step to convince myself that 'the pedestal' I put the pwBPD on might have been a less than perfect place for Mom, but it's a really, really inappropriate place for a person who has done all the lying, manipulating, etc, etc things my pwBPD has done.

     A mentally ill girl found a way to tap into the love an emotionally immature guy who was stuck in an early stage of psychosexual development had for his mother.  The sick part, really was her -- and in deference to the sentiments above I hasten to add that I mean sick in the literal sense. 

     I have always felt that this r/s with my pwBPD existed in a space and time all its own, as I had decades of nc and went instantly back to where I was when I saw her again.  Now I know why.  It was my early childhood, not the actual time of the r/s I was tapping into.

     I feel very different today, for the first time in a very long time. If this makes any sense to you at all, maybe you will too.  I hope so.

LT

     

[Octoberfest]

Great thread Octoberfest

1) All of the crazy, destructive, hurtful behaviors that our SO's carried out are not random.  

1:Not random at all. There is a rational behind these behaviors. What do you think that is?

2) ALL of the people that came before us "failed" as well.

2:Did they "fail" or were they at a similar emotional maturity level with few or no boundaries?

3) Bad things sometimes happen to good people

3:This is very true Octoberfest. What can we do to protect ourselves in the future?  Hint* NC is not the answer to this question.

And it is our duty to learn from them.  

4:Yes, we have a responsibility to ourselves. What can we learn about ourselves from being in this relationship?

1: The rationale behind their behaviors is survival, pure and simple.  Survival must be a loosely defined term here, because our definition and their definition differs quite a bit.  Additionally it is hard for us to conceive of some of the things they do being a matter of "survival".  How is having multiple relationships, hidden from one another, at the same time a matter of survival? How is needing to be around someone at all times, disliking being alone, a matter of survival? How is ALWAYS needing to be in a relationship or romantically involved with someone a matter of survival?   I think the term survival serves to distinguish these things from wants or desires.  To equate it in other terms, these things are NOT like giving up on eating your favorite ice cream.  They are more akin to the battles alcoholics and drug addicts face; they NEED their fix.  They can't imagine not having it.  Not having it shakes them to their core... . they are uncomfortable, feel vulnerable, etc.  They do what they do because it is what they know.  They are trying to keep a bandage wrapped around and pressure on a sucking wound, just trying to ride it out.  There isn't really any long term goal here- it is simply survive for the next minute, hour, day.  

My BPDex broke down crying in front of me one day... . she told me how much she hated having BPD and that she was so tired of being different.  She just wanted to be normal and have things work out.  She is her own worst enemy; a horrifying reality.

2: I put "fail" in quotes for a reason. What I meant by that is that all of the people who preceded us in relationships with our BPDex (usually this is QUITE a few) were not able to make it work either.  This is kind of a tricky point to make... . basic logic says OF COURSE they didn't make it work, if they had, we never would have had the chance to date our BPDex's to begin with.  And of course the whole point of dating is to find a partner you are truly compatible with that you would consider for marriage/spending the rest of your life with. My point here is that many pwBPD past failed relationships don't boil down to "we just were not compatible".  Most of them ended poorly, whether there was abuse involved, cheating, whatever.  There is a marked difference between a long dating history of relationships that ended because the fit wasn't right and a long dating history of failed relationships due to problems of infidelity, abuse, or other misconduct. I am establishing that no one else was able to "tame" our BPDex's, so we should not take it as a personal failure that we were "unable" to make a relationship work with these people.

3: I see NC as a personal choice. For some people it makes sense; for others it does not.  I am more middle ground, and I will explain why.

In another recent thread, it was asked why more people do not block their BPDex's phone numbers or Facebooks or emails.  I do not have Facebook or any other social network, but I do have a phone of course, and I have always resisted blocking her number.  It just doesn't sit right with me.  I just don't see actively taking steps to prevent communication with these people as productive... . When I was a small child, I would play hide and go seek with my parents.  When it was my turn to hide, I would sit in the open and cover my eyes with my hands; I was making the assumption that since I could not see them, they could not see me.  Likewise, if I couldn't see them, they must not really be there.  I see taking steps to prevent contact as making the same error that I made playing hide and go seek as a child.  The reality is that these people continue to exist and live lives of their own after we part ways.  Trying to pretend that they do not exist is not a viable or lasting strategy.  Life has a funny way of working, and be it by chance or not, there is a pretty strong possibility that you will come into contact with your BPDex again at some point later in your life, be it a week later, or years later, in a grocery store, or online on some website. In my opinion, running away, pretending they do not exist, living in ignorance sets one up to crumble if they are ever confronted by their BPDex again.

What can we do to prevent it from happening again?

Well first and foremost, we can recognize the patterns now.  Think about how many partners your BPDex had before you.  I guarantee you not all of them, or even most of them, researched BPD or looked for answers after the relationship failed.  We know the warning signs to watch for in new partners.  Our BPDex's have established patterns of behaviors; we know what we are dealing with now.  If we chose to go back at this point, we aren't going to be taken by surprise- it is an educated decision.

Beyond that, I think we must just weather the storms.  Some of the best lessons are the ones that hurt the most to learn.  My relationship with my BPDex was hell, and I shake my head already looking back at some of the stuff I put up with and dealt with to justify staying with her.  But now, on the other side of the relationship, I am a MUCH wiser person for having gone through the experience.  As my therapist told me in my first session, "It may not seem like it now, but this might be the best thing that has ever happened to you."

4: We have SO MUCH we can learn from this experience.  I have used the analogy a few times before: It took my BPDex putting a hole in my heart to realize I already had one there.  It took this relationships happening, and failing the way it did, to draw my attention to faults, or areas in need of improvement, or issues in need of addressing within myself.  I would have never became aware of my fear of intimacy with people if not for this relationship (when I say intimacy, I do not mean physical intimacy like sex, but rather emotional intimacy, letting my walls down and showing someone who I really am).  It would have not come to my attention how drastic of a difference there is between how I act in front of some people versus others.  I would continue on in life being plagued by the same issues that have been holding me back and limiting me, instead of becoming aware of them and working to resolve them so that I can live life to the fullest.


Guys these relationships and the fallout that follows HURTS LIKE HELL. But I make you a GUARANTEE!

If you seize this event as an opportunity, view it as a new beginning rather than the end of all, you are going to come out on the other side of this ordeal a CHANGED person.  A strong one. A humbler one perhaps.  One who knows themselves intimately.

Fortunate are those who truly know what they are made of and who are completely comfortable in who they are.

[EatingOranges]

LT... . Your addition to the thread was fantastic and really hit home with me.  Agree Agree Agree.  Thanks for adding it!

-EO   

[Bach Cantatas]

Very fine thread and some very useful insights here (IMHO) Many of us should find this of great value I think!

[KellyO]

@Lao Tzu: I was with my mother too, and my ex is male.  Before meeting my ex-bf I had no idea why my life was such miserable torture inside me, but it was. I carried a lot of pain. It took 2 years to get this all in order, and realize that gee, Universe sent me my mother in male disguise so I could finally see everything. Of course, this does not lessen the anger I still sometimes feel for my ex-bf, and it does not make me accept his NPD and his total craziness, but I don't hate him and I don't agonize about him. The minute I really realized what I had re-created in my life for me to see,  was minute when I begin to get my freedom.

The key-part here to notice is this:  them hinged on our being allowed and encouraged to seek their approval. Realizing this was very important for me. I had huge resentment agains it and still, there was nothing I wouldn't have done to get his love... . and goal post kept moving. Do this, do that and love will come to you... . oh it did not this time but maybe if you overlook this and that and please me in oh so many ways... . it just begin to feel familiar. But to understand it felt familiar I had to understand that the relationship was horrible torture for me, and there must be a reason I'm stuck in it, and the reason is not love. I was determined to find out why I could not let go of that damnable man. It felt love for me, so again, there must be somethign wrong in what my mind believes is love.

Because I grew up with a mother who did not love me, dispised me and did not even take care of me properly, my mind had learnt that that is how love looks like. It really is that simple. When we are children, we simpy can't think that our parents don't love us. It is like learning language. Whatever you see as a very small child in your family, is the norm for you. So there I was, with brains that were adamant that more I was abused and overlooked and used, the more I was loved. Realizing that was my ticket to freedom.

[thisyoungdad]

Thank you SO much I needed this tonight. The ex was "holding some of my stuff hostage" so to speak. I got her stuff back when she asked but I had asked multiple times for over a month. She wasn't responding then we got put on a no contact at all order from the lawyers (even about the kid, must go through someone else) so I finally get a text saying to contact my lawyer about this. I told her back I already did, and that I would forward her email stating she agreed to get it back to me, to the attorneys. I did this and within 5 minutes she called to say my stuff would be waiting tomorrow. I felt so sad, she sounded so sad on the phone and I hate that it had to be that way. Why couldn't she be cordial like I was when I returned her things? How hard is that? I never got angry with her just a little frustrated but this reminds me she is a person who is just hurting a lot too, in ways I can not ever imagine. How very sad for her.

[flynavy]

Octoberfest... . you are right on... . as complex/different each of the individuals wBPD/NPD are the absolute same pattern of behaviors is uncanny... . thus it is considered a disorder by the mental health community... .

the pwBPD:

-has been with MANY people before you

-has a bad past of one sort or another (be it drugs, abusive relationships, etc)

-has little to no gaps between their relationships; they are ALWAYS with someone

and... .

When you break up with them, they are, in NO time at all, with someone new.

The rationale behind their behaviors is survival, pure and simple.  Survival must be a loosely defined term here, because our definition and their definition differs quite a bit.  Additionally it is hard for us to conceive of some of the things they do being a matter of "survival".  How is having multiple relationships, hidden from one another, at the same time a matter of survival? How is needing to be around someone at all times, disliking being alone, a matter of survival? How is ALWAYS needing to be in a relationship or romantically involved with someone a matter of survival?   I think the term survival serves to distinguish these things from wants or desires.  To equate it in other terms, these things are NOT like giving up on eating your favorite ice cream.  They are more akin to the battles alcoholics and drug addicts face; they NEED their fix.  They can't imagine not having it.  Not having it shakes them to their core... . they are uncomfortable, feel vulnerable, etc.  They do what they do because it is what they know.  They are trying to keep a bandage wrapped around and pressure on a sucking wound, just trying to ride it out.  There isn't really any long term goal here- it is simply survive for the next minute, hour, day.

I remember my therapist asking me after my wife passed away... . before my exBPD/NPD fiance experience... . "Who are you?'  I couldn't answer the question.  I was so overtaken by events in my life... . all of the should/must dos/expectations of others whether it be my job... . my responsibilities as a husband/father... . ya know.  Never took the time to understand who I am and why I have made/and still do make decisions.  Really looked at how being an Adult Child of an Alcoholic affected my life.

So Octoberfest... . you are right... . if we look inside after this ordeal with our exBPD/NPD partners... . we will find out a whole lot about ourselves... . how strong we are!  I am a changed and better person after this experience.

[bpdspell]

@Lao Tzu

Ding! Ding! Ding!

When I realized that my BPDexbf was a one two punch combination of my neglecting, abandoning, silent treatment mother and my psychotic, controlling, manipulating and triangulating (read definition) father I was on the path to freedom. What an aha moment!

The truth is I didn't like my ex's personality and his entitlement made me want to puke. It was a battle of wills pretty early on.  But the love bombing and the sex was seductive and the attention and neediness stroked the ego of my malnourished child heart.

I didn't realize how devastated I truly was from my own emotional upbringing. When you are a child your parents are GOD. You need them for your survival and when you don't receive proper emotional nourishment you are defeated, sad and broken. More importantly. You blame yourself for feeling unlovable.

Feeling unlovable is how these relationships hook us. In my case fixing my BPDex was a case of me really trying to fix my parents to love me the way I craved to be loved.

My mother suffered with depression and my father was mentally ill schizophrenic and probably BPD/NPD. This is why my ex felt like my SOUL MATE. I get that now. Meeting him was like meeting everything that was hurtful about my childhood and believing I had the opportunity to fix things and make them right through him.

Great thread everyone. These relationships are no accident.

Spell

[causticdork]

I just wanted to add to the theory about us seeking partners who fill a parental role... .   There's neurological evidence that our brain creates neural shortcuts for us all the time.  These shortcuts increase our automatic association of certain feelings with certain actions or other feelings.  One of the earliest shortcuts that forms in anyone's brain is the feeling we got from our parents growing up and our concept of love.  So if your dad was an alcoholic who was prone to fits of rage you may despise the behavior and never consciously seek it out, but when someone you're dating makes you feel the way your dad made you feel when you were a kid, your brain hops on that shortcut and decides that's love.

Neural shortcuts are NOT undefeatable, but every time you reinforce them by entering or staying in a relationship with a person who fits that parental mold, you're making them harder to go around.  On brain-scans these shortcuts actually look like little trenches, and just like paths in the wild, they get deeper and more obvious the more they're used, and eventually start to fade if they're avoided.  This isn't all strictly psychological.  Your biology is something you'll have to fight against as well if your childhood set you up to seek unstable, abusive, unhealthy people. 

My mom has been incredibly unstable all my life.  She would never admit there was anything wrong with her, so she's never talked to a therapist, but she's legit crazy.  She's got every major symptom of Histrionic Personality Disorder and is also textbook NPD.  Last time I heard from her she was rambling on about the Illuminati kidnapping children and brainwashing them, wondering what true, pure Christians such as herself could do to fight the invasion of these brainwashed drones.  My dad, on the other hand, is a mellow guy who's pretty easy to get along with.  He was never abusive, but he was neglectful.  He's one of my favorite people now that I'm grown, but I don't think he was really cut out to be a dad.  He hated the responsibility, and buried himself in his music while leaving us at the mercy of our insane mother.  He never achieved much or had any motivation to achieve, and he was a highly functional alcoholic.

I'm in my thirties now, and I have several sisters all of whom are straight.  They are universally drawn to mellow, ambitionless guys who always remind me a bit of my dad.  I'm the only one who dates women, and as much as I try not to, I always seem to wind up either with a girl who's crazy and constantly making me fear she'll leave me (my mom couldn't stand me when I was a kid and was not shy about letting me and my siblings know I was the least favorite, so I always feared she'd abandon me) or I date someone fairly normal and I wind up breaking up with them because I don't ever get to the point where I'm falling in love. 

I'm making a conscious effort to avoid anything that digs those pathways deeper, because I don't want to associate chaos, unpredictability, and the constant feeling that my partner has one foot out the door with love anymore.   

[spaceace]

As my therapist said to me recently, you have been living in "her" world. And you are now finding your way out. It is true. I believe I was living in a way that not only wasn't healthy emotionally, but actually became a place where I was allowing myself to overlook how she was systematically dismantling my life. I actually participated in it. And looking back now, I clearly see how I allowed her to nearly consume me. That is not love. That is not a healthy relationship. In time... . healing will occur for us all.

[seeking balance]

Neural shortcuts are NOT undefeatable, but every time you reinforce them by entering or staying in a relationship with a person who fits that parental mold, you're making them harder to go around.  On brain-scans these shortcuts actually look like little trenches, and just like paths in the wild, they get deeper and more obvious the more they're used, and eventually start to fade if they're avoided.  This isn't all strictly psychological.  Your biology is something you'll have to fight against as well if your childhood set you up to seek unstable, abusive, unhealthy people. 

Without going to far off course on the topic - I wanted to touch on this subject as it is important.

DBT (the techniques for treating not only BPD but other addictions and fundamental behavioral changes) does show evidence of changing these exact neurons.

If WE as nons want to change  - DBT tools can help this as well.

[Mutt]

Thanks OP i really needed to hear this. I'm struggling with detaching with the uBPD and your post made my day. 

[Suzn]

Lao Tzu your post took a lot of courage. Hats off to you and your realization. 

1: The rationale behind their behaviors is survival, pure and simple. They do what they do because it is what they know. They are trying to keep a bandage wrapped around and pressure on a sucking wound, just trying to ride it out.

Agreed. It's what they know. The behaviors you see are in essence unhealthy coping skills for intense emotions.  

2: I put "fail" in quotes for a reason. I am establishing that no one else was able to "tame" our BPDex's, so we should not take it as a personal failure that we were "unable" to make a relationship work with these people.

Agreed, that we have to realize these unhealthy coping skills had nothing to do with us. They were there long before we were involved. We can only "tame" ourselves. The more we learn about our own behavior the more we recognize behaviors in others. Healthy or unhealthy.

3:  What can we do to prevent it from happening again? Well first and foremost, we can recognize the patterns now. We know the warning signs to watch for in new partners. My relationship with my BPDex was hell, and I shake my head already looking back at some of the stuff I put up with and dealt with to justify staying with her.

Good point, recognizing patterns is a good plan. Recognizing our patterns and why we stayed are great questions to ask ourselves.

4: We have SO MUCH we can learn from this experience. Fortunate are those who truly know what they are made of and who are completely comfortable in who they are.

Wise words.

[clairedair]

Hey Octoberfest

just a quick note to say that this post has been very timely and helpful to me this week

thanks

Claire

[Simona]

You just saved my night... .

Thank you... .

[heartandwhole]

Wow, Octoberfest and everyone, this is a fantastic thread!  I agree with you that this a huge opportunity for us, albeit a very painful one.  Here's to feeling whole and healthy again.  Thanks for inspiration.

[winston72]

What a marvelous series of posts!  Thank you to all.

The "way out" for me started with bewilderment, hurt and outrage at my SO.  Then it was trying to reconstruct her behavior to get some clarity about the truth... . what she was really doing, when she was doing it and what that meant for me.  The larger part of this exercise was helpful.  It was really painful and it often felt like an obsession for me, but I did need to know what was really going on between us.  To have ignored it or not tried to determine the truth would have been another episode of large scale denial on my part.  Denial of my hurt and the disavowal of the resultant anger is a big part of my personality.  It is really unhealthy for me.  It traps me in an empty role of the good guy.  So, forcing myself to pursue the facts with her was very important. And, in any event, it was darned near impossible not to. I was hurting too much.  I would characterize the most recent era as being one of slowly unfolding self realizations about the brokenness in my that attracted and encouraged someone like her.  Understanding her behavior and some of her dynamics is important and for me was unavoidable, but the real liberation is coming in the slow self awareness as a result of understanding my part of this dysfunctional dance.  This thread has been enormously helpful.

[Lao Tzu]

Dear All,

     First, thanks for all the kind words sent in my direction.  I need them all and more.  Its been about three days now since the above described very deep a-ha moment for me and I wanted to report back, I guess.

     Honestly, I've been expecting to wake up in the morning exactly as I had been, obsessing on my pwBPD despite this revelation.  Well every day is a new one, of course, but it hasn't happened yet.  I had to speak with her on the phone yesterday at work and that was a challenge, as our faces and bodies may have changed a bit over the years, but her voice is still the same beautiful, resonant music it ever was. (I know, right?) She had me again for a nano-second or two and then POW, I snapped out as if from a trance.

     I don't know that every day in the future will go as well as the last few have, as she has not actually made any overt effort to re-cycle our relationship.  As I explained in older posts, we both would likely lose our jobs pretty quickly if we had anything actually going on between us, so I guess she won't try.  On the other hand, taking risks to have illicit relationships is part of her (and typical) history, so I realize her approach could change.  Right now, I suspect I would melt like butter in a hot pan if she actually made a concerted effort to re-start things.  I hope as time goes on and I get stronger I'll get to the point where nothing she could do would affect me. I'm not there yet, but life's a marathon, right? 

LT 

[bb12]

Great thread... . the only thing I would caution is that it lets us nons off the hook too easily.

Everything said about them and their histories is true, but what of ours?

If we're really going to stop cheating ourselves then we have some of our own demons to face head on.

The common thread with a failed r/ship with a pwBPD, in my view, is not just the pwBPD.

It is that we were damaged enough in the first place to be attracted to them. It is true that we should be thankful for a way out and that we should not hate on the pwBPD, but unless we take the focus off them and onto us, we risk not learning all there is from this lesson.

I ran into an ex last night who told me I used to put him down and was controlling. All these years I'd thought ours was a nice, mature break-up but he'd clearly not been thinking that.

And I could see truth in what he said: that my codependency and ability to feel good about myself only by fixing, grooming, rescuing meant frustration and feelings of inferiority for him.

So what pain have we also caused people? What FOO issues and maladaptive thinking of our own has contributed to our r/ship choices and an inability to leave much earlier?

I feel thankful for dodging the BPD bullet, but will feel more thankful and more free when I know myself better; can ignore hurtful things by knowing my truth; when I don't mistake drama for passion; and when I can feel loved for who I am and not what I give or do



Bb12

[Octoberfest]

Great thread... . the only thing I would caution is that it lets us nons off the hook too easily.

Everything said about them and their histories is true, but what of ours?

If we're really going to stop cheating ourselves then we have some of our own demons to face head on.

The common thread with a failed r/ship with a pwBPD, in my view, is not just the pwBPD.

It is that we were damaged enough in the first place to be attracted to them. It is true that we should be thankful for a way out and that we should not hate on the pwBPD, but unless we take the focus off them and onto us, we risk not learning all there is from this lesson.

I ran into an ex last night who told me I used to put him down and was controlling. All these years I'd thought ours was a nice, mature break-up but he'd clearly not been thinking that.

And I could see truth in what he said: that my codependency and ability to feel good about myself only by fixing, grooming, rescuing meant frustration and feelings of inferiority for him.

So what pain have we also caused people? What FOO issues and maladaptive thinking of our own has contributed to our r/ship choices and an inability to leave much earlier?

I feel thankful for dodging the BPD bullet, but will feel more thankful and more free when I know myself better; can ignore hurtful things by knowing my truth; when I don't mistake drama for passion; and when I can feel loved for who I am and not what I give or do



Bb12

My point in making this thread is to establish one thing in particular:  NO MATTER what we as NON's did in our relationships, it WOULD NOT WORK.  WE cannot solve their problems.

When I talked about a common thread, I don't mean between everyone's stories on this board, I mean between all of the failed relationships a person with BPD has had in their lives.  I do not think that every person a BPD has been involved with gets in as deep with these people as those of us who have found ourselves on this board.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct though; even if nothing we could have done would have saved the relationship, there are definitely plenty of lessons to be learned and changes that stand to be made. We CAN learn things about ourselves so that next time we are better equipped to make THAT relationship work.

My intent with this thread was to remind people that, while yes, we are human and we do make mistakes, it is wholly inappropriate to blame ourselves for the failings of our BPDex's and of our relationship.