Deterioration: From DV to NC and yet the worst is yet to come

[Dr.Me2]

I have been back a week after I decided to come back and support the kids regardless.

Day by day her hostility got worst, she has now threatened to leave (being the primary caregiver for the kids and a stay at home mom for 7 years). She refuses to get help nor to admit anything wrong with her projecting everything negative onto me. Setting me for failure she create the enviornment to blame me and harasses me almost every hour of the day.

It has become so ridiculous that anything will trigger her rage even the most minute thing. I have already reported the DV to the authorities and they are aware.

The kids are noticing of course the hostility and in front of the kids she has repeatedly stated that she is determined to find another man, putting me down and lashing out. I do not confront her nor I pay attention to the words but the actions.

I am taking one day at at time and focusing on the kids and on my sanity.

Don't know where this is going to end. It is impossible to have a conversation with her as it takes nothing for her to explode on anything.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[allibaba]

Good for you about letting the authorities know about the DV.  That will give you significantly more ability to deal with the situation.

Next piece of advise... .even though you are "back for the kids."  I assume that you are keen to work on a better relationship with your wife?  Is that correct?  It will do long term damage to the kids for them to hear open hostility towards you from their mom.  My experience is that the threats to leave are often just threats.  Now that I am not scared of them... .he basically doesn't use them any more.

Have you done any work on boundaries?  In other words, do you know the steps to stop verbal abuse?  Have you worked on "other tools" like validation to reduce the tension in your house?  Apologies I am not familiar with your story.

[Dr.Me2]

allibaba,

I am not sure what 'better' means anymore. Her anger and violence has deteriorated even further after I mentioned we are scheduled to meet with them. I can not even described with words the next 3 hours (in front of the kids) that took place (I just have no more words).

This morning there was another explosion and I was very close to call 911. She went to a new lever telling my kids how evil I am, it was extremely painful. Is like watching someone that can't help herself and somehow you are being hurt at the same time feeling totally helpless.

I tried to set my boundaries for verbal abuse and DV many times also in writing. She becomes more violent saying that her DV is because how much I hurt her. Whatever I do or don't do I hurt her.

When I validate her she withdraws but soon after she rages or attacks back by setting up another mine.

I am back to square one. I am hoping that by involving the authorities she can be encouraged to seek help.

I am, at this point, as confused as I was when I start posting and I am even asking if she will ever get better one way or another.

[allibaba]

Try making a clear list of what behaviors that she exhibits that are dangerous (whether it be physically, emotionally, etc).

List the worst one first

I'll start with where I was at last January (2013):

1.  Physically abuse (rare but serious)

2.  Has threatened for serious harm to come to me

3.  Has hurt our dogs

4.  Threatens our dogs or to get rid of our dogs

5.  Verbally abusive (things like telling me that I should have never been born)

6.  Calls me names

7.  :)amages our property

8.  Attempts to tell me what I believe

9.  :)ominates my time even while I am at work

10.  Exposes our son to conflict

11.  Swears in front of our son

12.  Attempts to limit my interaction with friends/ family

13.  Assigns blame for the things going wrong in his life onto me.

1-4 were rare behaviors... .so I actually started on #5 and here is the post where I was given guidance initially on boundaries.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=200881.msg12251290#msg12251290

It was absolute hell but from about April until Sept I fought hard to stand up for myself - I got beat up, I ended up in a DV shelter for a week, I called the police on my husband but I decided that I was going to work really, really hard to stand up for what is right and to love him throughout the process regardless of how he acted.  I became at peace with the fact that I may lose my marriage in all of this, but I was losing it anyway.

Today here is where I am at:

1.  Physically abuse (rare but serious)

2.  Has threatened for serious harm to come to me

3.  Has hurt our dogs

4.  Threatens our dogs or to get rid of our dogs

5.  Verbally abusive (things like telling me that I should have never been born)

6.  Calls me names Still moving off the list but very rare

7.  :)amages our property Still moving off the list but very rare

8.  Attempts to tell me what I believe

9.  :)ominates my time even while I am at work

10.  Exposes our son to conflict - Lessening but I am still working on this.

11.  Swears in front of our son

12.  Attempts to limit my interaction with friends/ family - Lessening but I am still working on this.

13.  Assigns blame for the things going wrong in his life onto me. - Lessening but I am still working on this.

What changed for me was that I realized that I could not continue to expose my son to my husband's behavior and if he wasn't going to act like an adult, then I was going to be the one in charge.  So far the result has been good.

I can actually go back through and almost give you the date when each of these behaviors fell off the 'acceptable list.'  It was a result of firm boundary enforcement.  I'm glad that you are not afraid to call the police, but they should be the measure of last resort when everything else has not worked.  

I didn't realize how damaging my husband's bad behavior was (is) to my son until I really started working on the issues.  

What does your list look like?

[allibaba]

PS:  I tried setting boundaries many many times before this last attempt (starting last Spring).  It worries me that you say that you have tried to set boundaries even by writing them down.  That sounds like you have been setting RULES for your wife and rules in BPD land are made to be broken.

The reason that I posted that really old thread of mine is that I got a lot of great guidance around boundaries.  Boundaries are for you and you alone.  She can do what she wants but if she does x around you... .you will do y to protect yourself.  You do not have to tell her in advance what your expectations are.  That will only give you a heads up to prepare for what will happen.  Its better to do these things on the fly.  Don't try to validate when she's dyregulated.  Save that for when things are ok and she's not off her rocker.

"after I mentioned we are scheduled to meet with them" what do you mean?  Meet with who?  I assume this is what triggered her into her current rage dyregulation.

Your absolute #1 job now is to protect you and protect your kids.  What do you need to do to accomplish this?  It is NOT good for them to hear what they heard for 3 hrs this weekend.  That messes kids up.  They need sanity and stability and first and foremost they need it from you.  Even allowing her to say the things that she said in front of the kids HURTS THEM.

How many kids do you have and what ages are they?

[briefcase]

Boundaries are for you - not her.  She will do what she will do and you can't really conrol her behavior.  You can, and should, protect yourself and the kids from physical and verbal abuse by leaving a situation as it escalates (we call it taking a "time out" here). What you tolerate, and how you react, are the only things you can control.  Start focusing on that and things will get better for you.  We've all made this journey and are here for you. 

Have you read our Lessons?

[Dr.Me2]

What changed for me was that I realized that I could not continue to expose my son to my husband's behavior and if he wasn't going to act like an adult, then I was going to be the one in charge.  So far the result has been good.

Alibaba,

I would like to hear more about your quote above.

Thank you

[Dr.Me2]

briefcase,

I agree, I can't change the way she reacts to her feelings/emotions I can only change the way I react.

Somehow in the heat of the moment her rage and outburst become so pervasive that both withdrawing and assertive confrontations will escalate her anger to the point she will start throwing things at me while screaming and putting me down in front of the kids and calling me names.

I am reading the book 'Stop Caretaking the borderline or narcissist" where a spectrum of involvement from High Involvement to Low Involvement is described as follows:

1. Self Defeaters

2. Pathological altruist

3. Protective colluders

4. Self protectors

5. Cut-offs

I believe I am in between 4 and 5. Withdrawals or assertive confrontations are having the same effect.

[allibaba]

What changed for me was that I realized that I could not continue to expose my son to my husband's behavior and if he wasn't going to act like an adult, then I was going to be the one in charge.  So far the result has been good.

Alibaba,

I would like to hear more about your quote above.

Thank you

Decide what type of house situation is acceptable or not acceptable and then begin to make and enforce boundaries to give your kids a better life.  You are not 'picking on your wife'.  The house standards apply to everyone including you and including her.

Somehow in the heat of the moment her rage and outburst become so pervasive that both withdrawing and assertive confrontations will escalate her anger to the point she will start throwing things at me while screaming and putting me down in front of the kids and calling me names.

When you choose to allow her to act this in front of you and the kids - you are choosing to expose your children to ABUSE.  I am so sorry to be harsh but I have walked this path too so I feel like I can speak frankly about it.

Assertive confrontation is not the best way here.  It is likely to escalate to violence.

You must remove yourself and your kids from this situation.  Figure out what your boundary is here.  Is it name calling?  Is it screaming?  Whatever it is... .decide that you cannot expose your kids to it anymore and figure out the best way to protect them.  How old are they?  Can you take them outside for a walk when this type of stuff happens?  Can you put them all in the car and go to the grocery store?  

Say "honey I love you but this is scaring the kids.  We are going to go out to run some errands.  We'll be back in a couple of hours."

Please read the link that I put in from last Spring.  I really got some good advise and it started me down a path which has changed my life.  

Remember that initially you will see an extinction burst (like a toddler throwing a massive tantrum)... .know in your heart that you are making the decision to walk away from her when she is like this because you love her, you love the kids and you love your family. Besides she's already behaving badly... .what do you have to lose? 

[allibaba]

I would also add that my husband's behavior got so bad in the car a number of times... .that I have made it clear that I will not tolerate that behavior.  I have actually told him to stop the car and let me out.  He did once and I hitchhiked home (I live in a reasonably safe rural community)... .he's knows now that I am as serious as a heart attack.  He won't be verbally abusive to me anymore.  Well he can be as abusive as he wants -- but I won't be there to listen to it.

[Dr.Me2]

She must now passed a certain no return to baseline threshold and hit an emotional breakdown.

Nothing seems to work at this point. Waiting for a visit from the authorities.

[allibaba]

Sorry to hear that... .but maybe that is what she needs to get help.

[Dr.Me2]

One thing that I noticed quite frequently is her 'self-consciousness', she is highly sensitive and aware of what others think of her to the point of pretending.

This may relate to the false-self of a pwBPD.

[briefcase]

briefcase,

I agree, I can't change the way she reacts to her feelings/emotions I can only change the way I react.

Somehow in the heat of the moment her rage and outburst become so pervasive that both withdrawing and assertive confrontations will escalate her anger to the point she will start throwing things at me while screaming and putting me down in front of the kids and calling me names.

The trick to is disengage before it gets this heated. Once you're out of the house, preferably with the kids, she can escalate all she wants, no one will be there to hear her. 

If a BPD is raging in the house, and there's no one there to hear it, is it still a rage?  Well, for her yes.  But, for you no.