Why we get involved in the first place

[bungenstein]

I think we all on this forum spend a lot of time analysing and dissecting our ex'es behaviour, trying to understand the pain we are in, and figuring out ways to deal with these people.

If we are all honest with ourselves, there were red flags right from the start and we chose to ignore them. I believe the most important question we need to be discussing is why did we get involved and enter into a romantic relationship with these people? And I believe I know the answer, the answer is because we felt this was the best we could do. The reason pwBPD felt like we were compatible with them was because they sensed our self esteem problems, whenever we show a strong self of self esteem, that's when they search for other options. Why would we put up with all their s*** if we felt there was a better option? The fact is we didn't feel we could get someone better, WE CAN, they know that, but we don't, which is why we fall into their trap. There is only one relationship these people need in their lives, and thats with therapy.

We need to examine what it is that's in us that led us into this terribly unhealthy situation to begin with, and sort it out, so that we can meet a healthy person and have an amazing relationship. The more amount of time we spend learning how to deal with a disordered individual, the more time we have spent destroying our ability to have a relationship with a non-disordered individual. Some of us may even become experts at dealing with a pwBPD, and I'm sure a lot of us could now write a book on the subject, but all that learning comes at a cost, and that cost is not developing the skills to have a healthy relationship with a healthy person. We should not, need not, and should not want to even entertain a relationship with a disordered person, the very fact that we did speaks volumes about the problems we have, and should shine a light on what we need to fix in ourselves to have a truly happy life in the future. Our borderline ex'es are just reflections of own issues, and now's the time to fix them, focus on ourselves, and forget any disordered people, we can't help them, we can't change them, and we shouldn't feel the need or want to do so.

[GoodThingsToCome]

I'm about 7 weeks out of a relationship with an ex I believed suffered from BPD (or at least many of the characteristics). I've spent weeks reading up on the condition to understand it better and to try unravel the confusion that I went through. I also now have a pretty clear understanding of why I fell into the trap in the first place. Even though I know all of this now, it still hurts like s**t to be away from her, and I think about her daily.

In my particular case, I believe there were 2 fundamental reasons I got hooked up in a relationship like this. Firstly, I had previously come out of a long-term, stable/conservative relationship (high-school sweetheart kind of thing), so when I met my BPD ex, the fireworks, passion/attraction and energy she gave off was just too overwhelmingly good... .it was like nothing I had ever experienced before... .and to be honest, I so badly crave those feelings to this day. At the time I believed she was a true woman... .she seemed put together, mature and able to make me feel things I hadn't ever felt before - I actually believed she was too good for me! Once we had had sex, I was locked in... .the chemistry was just too good to be true. Quite honestly, there were signs initially, but as they say 'love is blind'.

The 2nd reason I've come to find out is due to my upbringing and my own issues... .my mother and father have always had a difficult relationship, my mother being a natural healer and my father being somewhat abusive and suffering from personality disorders of his own. I definitely take after my mother as a healer, and as a result I think I've looked (without knowing) to find somebody that I can "fix" or help... .somebody damaged. From what I've read, people with these personality disorders and natural healers form an amazing chemistry... .they both feed off each other - even though I knew she was damaged, I had a toxic attraction towards her. I tried everything I could to fix her, but eventually I had to give up as it felt like my life was being sucked from inside me unnecessarily.

It's been 7 of the hardest weeks of my life... .I've cried, I've lay alone in silence, I've spoken endlessly about it to my support network, but I'm going to feel these feelings through until I feel whole again... .we have to. I'm going to make sure I remember how f***ing hard this has been so that I don't make the same mistake again.

That is just my 2 cents... .

Cheers.

[bungenstein]

In my particular case, I believe there were 2 fundamental reasons I got hooked up in a relationship like this. Firstly, I had previously come out of a long-term, stable/conservative relationship (high-school sweetheart kind of thing), so when I met my BPD ex, the fireworks, passion/attraction and energy she gave off was just too overwhelmingly good... .it was like nothing I had ever experienced before... .and to be honest, I so badly crave those feelings to this day. At the time I believed she was a true woman... .she seemed put together, mature and able to make me feel things I hadn't ever felt before - I actually believed she was too good for me! Once we had had sex, I was locked in... .the chemistry was just too good to be true. Quite honestly, there were signs initially, but as they say 'love is blind'.

We can have that passion if we have it in us to find the right person and learn to pursue what we want in a relationship. You said you thought she was too good for you, that's the unhealthiness us that leads us to these people. Love is not blind, you saw the red flags and you thought she was the best you could get and stayed, you chose to love her despite all her problems, because you didn't think you could get the things that attracted you to her in a normal healthy person, we can, once we become healthy.

[Hurtbeyondrepair27]

I had a cry last night when i realized the answer to this question.

i hate myself. i feel unloveable.

sometimes i love myself and those moments are great...

but fleeting.

[bungenstein]

I had a cry last night when i realized the answer to this question.

i hate myself. i feel unloveable.

sometimes i love myself and those moments are great...

but fleeting.

Exactly, and we need to make changes in our lives, achieve goals, have virtues, and stick to principles that mould us into the people we want to be, and as a result we realise our self worth, and attract an equally strong and healthy partner. Water seeks its own level.

[Mutt]

the answer is because we felt this was the best we could do.

I understand bungenstein.

I'd like to touch on a little with analyzing our exes. I'm coming from a perspective from my personal experience.

I think it's important to understand what we lived through. I'm not sure about you but there was a lot of pain, suffering and confusion. I needed to sort out the trauma I experienced after being abandoned. Take what's mine.

I have kids.

I have to deal with her for at least another 15 years.

I think it's very important to understand the behaviors. As to depersonalize and become indifferent. I learned what negative behaviors and triggers I had to stop the bleeding for the kids.

It's not about conflict. It's about the kids now. Maybe if I wasn't detached and indifferent I would still be engaged? Whom suffers? The kids.

By going through the five stages of detachment. I found myself after searching for a long time.

I'm a good man. I deserve a partner that is compatible with my morals and values. And vice versa. One journey ends. A new one begins. A journey where I love myself, am confident and in control. I can take whatever path I choose.

That journey began when I embraced the pain.

There's a lot of life lessons. If you look closely. Picking myself and simply moving on would have been for naught.

In that pain is the gift of the borderline. Don't let it pass you by. It's invaluable.

[Deeno02]

I had a cry last night when i realized the answer to this question.

i hate myself. i feel unloveable.

sometimes i love myself and those moments are great...

but fleeting.

im struggling to love myself. I feel used, ashamed, guilty, emasculated and fearful of seeing or hearing from her.

[bungenstein]

the answer is because we felt this was the best we could do.

I understand bungenstein.

I'd like to touch on a little with analyzing our exes. I'm coming from a perspective from my personal experience.

I think it's important to understand what we lived through. I'm not sure about you but there was a lot of pain, suffering and confusion. I needed to sort out the trauma I experienced after being abandoned. Take what's mine.

I have kids.

I have to deal with her for at least another 15 years.

I think it's very important to understand the behaviors. As to depersonalize and become indifferent. I learned what negative behaviors and triggers I had to stop the bleeding for the kids.

It's not about conflict. It's about the kids now. Maybe if I wasn't detached and indifferent I would still be engaged? Whom suffers? The kids.

By going through the five stages of detachment. I found myself after searching for a long time.

I'm a good man. I deserve a partner that is compatible with my morals and values. And vice versa. One journey ends. A new one begins. A journey where I love myself, am confident and in control. I can take whatever path I choose.

That journey began when I embraced the pain.

There's a lot of life lessons. If you look closely. Picking myself and simply moving on would have been for naught.

In that pain is the gift of the borderline. Don't let it pass you by. It's invaluable.

Oh yeh I am in no way saying all this analysis and learning was pointless, I think the completely opposite, I think after we've learnt enough, to stop, and focus on why this happened to us, and make that change in us.

[Rifka]

Stop beating yourself up so much. Yes we let our guards down and let these parasites in, we are human, hopefully we have learned about the disorder and a bit about ourselves and we will move forward.

Experience is how we learn, the real issue is what are we doing with the knowledge and how are we going to be at peace and forgive ourselves for being kind, weak, and letting somebody temporarily guide us the wrong way. Are we suppose to be completely paranoid for the rest of our lives and not trust ourselves to open up and be loved by a healthy person? Of course not, we all deserve that.


Mine hid the most of the red flags for the month we were friends only and hanging out dancing the nights away , laughing and having fun. He didn't divulge too much info except recent breakup with somebody he loved who cheated on him ( unknown red flag)

I hadn't ever dated anybody insane before, so I didn't know certain things were red flags that I thought were life experiences. I know better now! I had not had a serious relationship in almost two years, busy traveling, enjoying my fun life. I wasn't even looking for a relationship, it just turned into it from a short friendship that we shared many common interests ( who knew I was going to date myself) totally clueless about the BPD life and any real crazy men!

I just was lucky to have never met one before. I had nice past relationships that ended healthy and am friends with everybody from my past and their new girlfriends, spouses or s/o.

One ward and forward people! If you don't love you than nobody else can either!

Yes there are good and bad moments, but try and push them away and replace them with doing great things for you!

Rifka

[GoodThingsToCome]

We can have that passion if we have it in us to find the right person and learn to pursue what we want in a relationship. You said you thought she was too good for you, that's the unhealthiness us that leads us to these people. Love is not blind, you saw the red flags and you thought she was the best you could get and stayed, you chose to love her despite all her problems, because you didn't think you could get the things that attracted you to her in a normal healthy person, we can, once we become healthy.

Yes, I agree with you here. Once the cracks started to appear, I (we) should've had the strength to walk away... .Like I said before, I began to have a toxic attraction towards this woman (and indirectly the drama involved with her); the ups and downs make us feel alive in an unhealthy way... .so in that sense I believed she was the keeper of my happiness.

I'll put this one down to inexperience, learn and plan to ensure it never happens again. I've grown tremendously as a person through all of this, and while it still hurts like a hell, the glimmer of light grows day by day. I've started to feel excited about the prospect of meeting a real woman who will love me the same way that I love her and I know its waiting around the corner for me when I'm ready.

[bungenstein]

Stop beating yourself up so much. Yes we let our guards down and let these parasites in, we are human, hopefully we have learned about the disorder and a bit about ourselves and we will move forward.

Experience is how we learn, the real issue is what are we doing with the knowledge and how are we going to be at peace and forgive ourselves for being kind, weak, and letting somebody temporarily guide us the wrong way. Are we suppose to be completely paranoid for the rest of our lives and not trust ourselves to open up and be loved by a healthy person? Of course not, we all deserve that.


Mine hid the most of the red flags for the month we were friends only and hanging out dancing the nights away , laughing and having fun. He didn't divulge too much info except recent breakup with somebody he loved who cheated on him ( unknown red flag)

I hadn't ever dated anybody insane before, so I didn't know certain things were red flags that I thought were life experiences. I know better now! I had not had a serious relationship in almost two years, busy traveling, enjoying my fun life. I wasn't even looking for a relationship, it just turned into it from a short friendship that we shared many common interests ( who knew I was going to date myself) totally clueless about the BPD life and any real crazy men!

I just was lucky to have never met one before. I had nice past relationships that ended healthy and am friends with everybody from my past and their new girlfriends, spouses or s/o.

One ward and forward people! If you don't love you than nobody else can either!

Yes there are good and bad moments, but try and push them away and replace them with doing great things for you!

Rifka

I don't think I'm beating myself up, I think I'm building myself up, my ex has opened my eyes to my own flaws and shown me how I have cultivated other bad relationships in my life, and let people get close to me who have sucked the life out of me, its a beautiful awakening, and wonderful to know that I no longer need to be this way, that in itself has injected me with a big boost of self esteem. I am not paranoid of people because of her, I am just far more aware of people because of her. I know who is bad for me, but I also know who is really good for me, its a great skill to develop.

Other than that yes I agree with you, love yourself and healthy love will come  

[camuse]

You are largely right, but in my case there were other reasons - I was in a bad place when she targeted me, which I believe was done with instinctively precise timing.

Also, she was very good at hiding the red flags for several weeks, and I was off guard when they hit me.

Thirdly, I simply was not aware people behaved like this.


But your basic premise is accurate - and the great thing many of us have gained from all this is that we NEVER want to go through this again, and we know that self-improvement is key to that. Like others, I have worked hard on myself so I can validate myself without needing anyone else to do so. Because ultimately, you are correct - a totally secure person would simply not tolerate their games.

[Trog]

My story is similar to many on these boards. I was fresh out of a relationship and looking for comfort. She was very sexual in a way I hadnt experienced before and it was exciting, newsflash though, that dries up quickly, or you're made to feel about it further down the line.

But I agree with Bungenstein, these relationships, as much as I wish I'd never entered into it, are actually important to us and I can see that I she did hold up a mirror to me and has shown me the very worst of myself, never the best though. I recognise that I have some serious problems but I they are for me to work on now, I'm glad to be out of the mindset where I question her actions over and over and am now in a place where I've turned the inspection inwards. This has only just begun though and I'm not sure I'll like a lot of what I find, but its a damned sight less painful than obsessing over her actions.

[Pingo]

I had been separated from my first marriage for 1 1/2 yrs.  I was so happy to be single, I was out doing new things, having fun, being fulfilled.  Then I had a crisis with my daughter.  Drugs, quitting school, etc.  I lost control of her.  And I was scared to death.  My mother, to whom I had always had a difficult r/s with, betrayed me greatly during this time, went behind my back and flew my daughter out there (to another province).  She decided she was going to take over parenting my daughter! This was the lowest point in my life.  I had truly failed as a mother, a role I had taken such joy in.  I lost my way and I was devastated.  This is when my uBPDexh walked into my life.  He was like a beacon on a dark stormy night.  He soothed my sorrows, took away my pain.  And before I knew it I was in love with him.  The chemistry was out of this world.  I saw red flags within the first 2 mths but by then I was hooked.  I rationalised and excused as much as I could, denying and ignoring the rest.  This is why I ended up with a pwBPD.

The more amount of time we spend learning how to deal with a disordered individual, the more time we have spent destroying our ability to have a relationship with a non-disordered individual. Some of us may even become experts at dealing with a pwBPD, and I'm sure a lot of us could now write a book on the subject, but all that learning comes at a cost, and that cost is not developing the skills to have a healthy relationship with a healthy person. We should not, need not, and should not want to even entertain a relationship with a disordered person, the very fact that we did speaks volumes about the problems we have, and should shine a light on what we need to fix in ourselves to have a truly happy life in the future. Our borderline ex'es are just reflections of own issues, and now's the time to fix them, focus on ourselves, and forget any disordered people, we can't help them, we can't change them, and we shouldn't feel the need or want to do so.

I have to disagree with this, I think that understanding the disorder is crucial for our healing.  So many of us are coming from a place of low self worth after the ending of these r/s.  We are trying to make sense out of something insane.  Understanding the disorder has saved me a world of grief.  Some of the people on here wish they never met their ex pwBPD.  I can understand that for sure.  But for me, I don't regret it.  I feel like it has split me open in a way that probably wouldn't have been possible otherwise.  I have finally been able to see the trauma from my FOO that I was in deep denial about, that I had spent a lifetime using dysfunctional coping mechanisms to numb the pain.  I am finally given a chance to heal those old wounds I've been carrying for a life time and frankly, I'm exhausted by carrying them.  I have a chance to be whole, truly authentic, and joyful for the first time in my life.  I just don't know if I would have ever had that chance without this crazy person coming into my life.  I now believe my mother is BPD.  It explains so much and why no matter what I do, I can never 'fix' my r/s with her.  My father is the classic codependent enabler.  It's so good to get out of the FOG of my marriage AND my r/s with my parents!

[myself]

I have a chance to be whole, truly authentic, and joyful for the first time in my life.

We've had the chances all along, and took them many times.

Is it that we don't remember? Or that it's really clear right now?

I'm glad for your awareness. It's who you are.

Please make the best of it. Let's all do that.

[bungenstein]

I have to disagree with this, I think that understanding the disorder is crucial for our healing.  So many of us are coming from a place of low self worth after the ending of these r/s.  We are trying to make sense out of something insane.  Understanding the disorder has saved me a world of grief.  Some of the people on here wish they never met their ex pwBPD.  I can understand that for sure.  But for me, I don't regret it.  I feel like it has split me open in a way that probably wouldn't have been possible otherwise.  I have finally been able to see the trauma from my FOO that I was in deep denial about, that I had spent a lifetime using dysfunctional coping mechanisms to numb the pain.  I am finally given a chance to heal those old wounds I've been carrying for a life time and frankly, I'm exhausted by carrying them.  I have a chance to be whole, truly authentic, and joyful for the first time in my life.  I just don't know if I would have ever had that chance without this crazy person coming into my life.  I now believe my mother is BPD.  It explains so much and why no matter what I do, I can never 'fix' my r/s with her.  My father is the classic codependent enabler.  It's so good to get out of the FOG of my marriage AND my r/s with my parents!

Sorry Pingo maybe I wasn't clear, I do agree that learning about the disorder is necessary to heal, and it has done me the world of good to understand the insane world I was living in, and the effect it had had on me, and I am happy for you that you have made such good progress.

My point was that this happened because we were unhealthy people, and once we have learnt enough about the disorder its crucial to turn the focus on ourselves (which you have been doing) and build the broken bridges in our minds that let us fall into this situation to begin with. We have spent a long time working out and learning how to live in a disordered persons world, and as Yoda would say, we need to unlearn what we have learned, so that we become fluent in a healthy world and a healthy relationship, ensuring that this ridiculous realm we inhabited for a while becomes only a distant memory.

[Pingo]

I have a chance to be whole, truly authentic, and joyful for the first time in my life.

We've had the chances all along, and took them many times.

Is it that we don't remember? Or that it's really clear right now?

I agree we always have that chance but when we are born into a dysfunctional FOO and we learn defense mechanisms to survive which play out in our adult lives, we are not living from our authentic selves.  I have spent my life numbing the pain of my childhood.  Alcohol, food, men, sex, exercise, etc.  I always understood there was dysfunction in all of it but didn't understand how much pain I had stuffed down, numbed away.  It took this r/s to really uncover it all.  It was like ripping off a old band aid and exposing a long forgotten wound.

My point was that this happened because we were unhealthy people, and once we have learnt enough about the disorder its crucial to turn the focus on ourselves (which you have been doing) and build the broken bridges in our minds that let us fall into this situation to begin with. We have spent a long time working out and learning how to live in a disordered persons world, and as Yoda would say, we need to unlearn what we have learned, so that we become fluent in a healthy world and a healthy relationship, ensuring that this ridiculous realm we inhabited for a while becomes only a distant memory.

Maybe I never really wanted to learn how to live with the disordered him.  I challenged him on his behaviours and mindset.  I was in denial.  I didn't see a mental illness until I got out of the r/s and out of the FOG.  My learning has been mostly why I was with someone disordered, how I ended up staying with the dysfunction and compromising myself.  I agree, it is a learning process how to be in a healthy r/s.  Don't think I've ever had one! 

[bungenstein]

Maybe I never really wanted to learn how to live with the disordered him.  I challenged him on his behaviours and mindset.  I was in denial.  I didn't see a mental illness until I got out of the r/s and out of the FOG.  My learning has been mostly why I was with someone disordered, how I ended up staying with the dysfunction and compromising myself.  I agree, it is a learning process how to be in a healthy r/s.  :)on't think I've ever had one!  

We didn't want to live with disordered people, but we did.

I don't think I've ever had a healthy relationship either, its a learned way of being, the relationships we make are the kind of relationships we are used to making, we are on a hamster wheel, a habit, of forming and accepting bad relationships, because its the frame we view the world through, its what we have learned relationships are, and we are not seeing the bigger picture, that's why we ended up with a mentally ill individual.

We are in total control of this, I have been passively going through life accepting the people that have come into my life and tried my very best to make it work or to fix any problems with them, instead of just avoiding the asteroids that stop me travelling through the cosmos catching the stars along the way. Life becomes much easier once you simply get out of the way of these people when they come your way, and the gift of the borderline is a heightened state of awareness and enlightenment to your own issues that have kept you hitting holes in the road. We create our own struggles by battling with things that we needn't entertain, and waste our precious time on planet earth that should be devoted to nutritious and invigorating people and experiences.