Her truth, my truth

[Depression = 72% of members]

I am wondering how others deal with knowing that your partner lies to their therapist, friends, etc. about what is really going on in the relationship. Maybe she really believes it is true - but it is not. For instance, she tells them I yell at her, which is not true. I have a lot of other examples. I am sure that this portrayal of what is going on clouds any therapy session she has and can't be helpful.  I know her friends and sponsors give her advice, but it is based on hearing only one side of the story (untrue facts) and really doesn't help. It actually makes things worse.

Also, I had to read the success stories... .to know there is some hope.

[bluejeans]

I am wondering how others deal with knowing that your partner lies to their therapist, friends, etc. about what is really going on in the relationship. Maybe she really believes it is true - but it is not. For instance, she tells them I yell at her, which is not true. I have a lot of other examples. I am sure that this portrayal of what is going on clouds any therapy session she has and can't be helpful.  I know her friends and sponsors give her advice, but it is based on hearing only one side of the story (untrue facts) and really doesn't help. It actually makes things worse.

Also, I had to read the success stories... .to know there is some hope.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Notwendy]

I don't know the answer to this. My father rarely talked about the fact that my mother had BPD. We all knew she has seen several therapists over the years. Eventually, though, it just stopped. One a rare occasion, my dad would actually be honest about it. I asked him why mom was not in therapy and he replied " It never worked because she just lied to the therapist".

For a long time, I didn't make the connection between my H and my mother because he is so much higher functioning than she is. Still, I tolerated a lot of projections, rages, verbal abuse. Although I was willing to go to T, he would not. I know that he would never go to T on his own. Eventually, after years, he agreed to marital T but he won't really reveal anything about his own issues. The focus is on me being co-dependent.

Are there successes? There have been positive changes in our r/s. Some of the effort has been on his part. However, for that to happen, I had to be the one to change- and focus on the change in me without any expectation of him to change. Until I got a grip on my enabling, there would be no impetus for him to change. He had it the way he wanted it and I was the one not happy. I think in many cases, the non has more of an incentive for things to change. People with BPD can change- there are people on this board who have- however, for anyone to change, they need to feel intriniscally motivated.

In my parents' marriage, mom seemed to be the problem, however, my father was an enabler. I don't know how the situation would be had he worked on that. Little was understood about BPD at the time, so he did what he could with what he had. There was no reason for mom to want to change.

[bluejeans]

Thanks, Notwendy. I realize I am an enabler for sure. I am working on that with CODA and therapy. I am not sure I have changed enough yet for it result in a significant shift in the relationship but I am working on it. I have set some boundaries on finances, though, and that is starting to help. As far as her being motivated to change, she really hasn't reached that point yet. Like I said in my intro post, I hope to go to her psychiatrist appt on Friday to talk about BPD and DBT.  Going to the appt. could help or it could be a complete disaster. We'll see. Right now I don't think I want to continue on as we have for 8 plus years. There has to be a change. I am willing to change. But she needs to also change for me to want to continue. I think that is the bottom line for me at this point. I know working with DBT will take time and energy but I am willing to see if that helps. 

[Notwendy]

I get what you are saying. I so wish that there was some way to get through to my H so he'd see the effect of raging and projecting, but that is hard to do. Since he is higher functioning than my mom, I hoped that I could make him see things from my point of view but now I know better. I had to start with me.

The very nature of BPD is to project and deny. If someone has a strong sense of themselves, they can own the part of them that is less than perfect. If I hurt someone's feelings, and they tell me I did, I can own that, feel sorry, and apologize. I can accept that if I make a mistake, do something I feel badly about, it does not mean that I am all bad, all terrible all hopeless.

However, any sense of criticism will send someone with BPD into feeling completely anhilated, attacked, shameful, defective, unlovable. The way they deal with this unbearable sense of awfulness is to separate from it- literally take that piece of them and make it not exist- deny it and project it on to someone else. It is similar to when a child has a stomach ache and throws up everywhere. The child feels better and can run off to play as if the stomach ache never happened.

People are most motivated to change when they are not happy with how things are going- when what they do isn't working to get the results they want. For codependents, it can be giving, helping and feeling burnt out when this doesn't work. For the pwBPD, they are unhappy, but for them, projecting the feelings is working- at least temporarily to get rid of the bad feelings. This is also why people take on addictions. Alcohol, drugs, shopping, and co-dependency are ways people relieve pain, even if they are not healthy ways. This is also why people with addictions are less likely to change when they have an enabler- and change often depends on the enabler changing.

Although I don't live with my mother, so I do have some space with regards to her, she does not trigger me like she used to. Now that I am not so reactive to her, I respond in a different way. Our r/s is better. However, I recognize that this is different from the challenges of a romantic r/s.

Start with yourself bluejeans, and the lessons and tools here, and hopefully you will see changes... .

[bluejeans]

I realize I have focused more on how I want her to change rather than changing myself, despite my own CODA work and therapy. So I am now making a promise to take care of myself. 

[NGU]

I am wondering how others deal with knowing that your partner lies to their therapist

1. I got weary of her therapists getting one side of the story so I told my wife we needed couple's therapy if the relationship was going to last. She actually agreed. A harm-reduction psychologist... .great lady. Very helpful experience.

2. I got tired of her running out of medication and then having to deal with the resulting crashes/withdrawals. I called her psychiatrist and psychologist in an attempt to kick-start them into helping more. That did not end well. They told me they would be forced to tell my wife I called, and her psychiatrist actually got snotty with me. I know there are psychiatrists who are among us, so I won't elaborate more than to say... .I've dealt with 14 of them so far. [Negative statement preemptively removed by author.] #15 and #16 coming up next month.

[bluejeans]

We have had a lot of couples therapy over the years. So often it seemed like it was just a place to complain about me  - but a recent session with a new therapist was great due to the therapist asking her some really good questions, which brought out some underlying truths that she hadn't faced before. We will be going back. 

Her psychiatrist seems to help keep her somewhat stable on meds and that is his focus but there's got to be more than that. 

[waverider]

Inability/unwillingness to be truthful is one of the biggest hurdles to improvement. It is the reason couples therapy rarely works as it becomes a blamefest, Therapist do need to be conversant with BPD, those that are will not take anything as gospel. They may not argue, but that is to stop client clamming up or running, rather than they have been "sold"

Too many clients want a big dose of S & E (support and empathy), but start to run if the 'T" (truth) comes out .

Accepting you partner may never be wholly honest is hard to do, but it is the reality. It has been their reality their whole life. Twisting the truth is just a tool to better describe their emotions, making them tangible. Listen to the emotions and use the "facts" presented as analogies used to demonstrate them.

[JohnLove]

I know there are psychiatrists who are among us, so I won't elaborate more than to say... .I've dealt with 14 of them so far. [Negative statement preemptively removed by author.] #15 and #16 coming up next month.

How very interesting. Brutally honest perspective on your part perhaps? I wish you well with #15 and #16.

[Notwendy]

First, I am not a psychiatrist, and I am not defending them. I hope you find someone you can work with.

But, it isn't the doctor's responsibility to be sure a patient isn't running out of medicine. I don't know if you are in the US or not, but most of the time in the US, insurance will only cover medicine for a short time (1-3 months) and doctors usually only write prescriptions for a short time depending on the situation ( not just psychiatric medication). It's actually the patients' responsibility to not run out of medicine- and to contact the doctor or pharmacy for a refill before they run out.

There are strict confidentiality laws but if a person can not take care of their responsibilities about taking medicine, they can sign a release form allowing another person to get information and help them. I think you can also get a medical power of attorney as well.

That is, if they will sign them, and they may not.

[bluejeans]

 

Listen to the emotions and use the "facts" presented as analogies used to demonstrate them.

This makes sense to me.