Ex Girlfriend Saga vol.3 - Echoes, Patience, Silence & Grace

[Bassoutcast]

This is a follow up to my last thread - "Ex Girlfriend - Mind Games".

So it's been over a month since she broke up with me, followed by me chasing her to which she initiated NC, after a while she started playing mind games with me (I suspect those were games) - changing her profile picture and statuses each time I tried to contact her, and when I stopped falling for her "games" and didn't react, a mutual friend suddenly texted me after a long time without talking to see if I was OK, to which I replied that I'm great and I know my ex is playing games with me.

That was over a week ago, haven't heard from her since. Been reading "I hate you - don't leave me", dealing with my fear of abandonment and feeling better about myself, and realized that if I want her back I don't need to block myself from her (Like I did in the past week or so) and to leave lines of communication open for her to come back.

The FOG has lifted nicely, instead of fearing things like "why isn't she online all week, she might have killed herself" I think of more logical explanations such as "she probably is busy" or "she might have broken her phone".

I still want her back, despite all the turmoil I've been through. I am moving on with my life, and been thinking of the positive and negative outcomes of a possible relationship with her - and I'd love to start anew.

Any suggestions on how to do so? feels weird, considering today's our anniversary... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Mike-X]

Exercise, socializing with friends/family, hobbies and work, and focusing on your mental health. It sounds like you are on the right track. 

[Bassoutcast]

Exercise, socializing with friends/family, hobbies and work, and focusing on your mental health. It sounds like you are on the right track. 

I know that if I want to even have a chance of trying again with her, I need to be at my absolute best mental health, and it does get better as time goes by, but how do I go from there?

[Bassoutcast]

It's our anniversary... . took a long walk today with the dog and saw some places we've spent our first dates together... . I wasn't as depressed as I was before, but it still aches my heart... . not in a "grieving" kind of way, but more like a "those times were so great, I wish we could start again" kind of way, like I'm not thinking of the old relationship as much as I do about the possibility of a new one, new memories, new experiences, etc.

I just wish I'd get a sign from her, anything... . even another silly "mind game" to know I'm still on her mind... .

[Bassoutcast]

Been reading more on exes w/BPD, one thing I've stumbled upon is "keep lines of communication open. stay in touch with them, even if they don't respond. let them know you're there for support and that you care".

Anyone can share opinions on that? seems like every form of contact I tried to make was met with a cold shoulder, so why would people recommend doing that? especially if I feel my ex has a fear of engulfment... .

I feel like I should just text her "I'm always here for you" or something along that line. I've read that cutting communication will just validate their fear that we don't really love them... . I'm puzzled... .read a bunch of posts from pw/BPD and they actually say "we push people away to see if they really care. if they come back, they do care, it shows us that they love us"... . plus there's a big national holiday this week and I think it'd be a good timing to initiate contact... . I feel like I won't be hurt as much if she rejects it, but it'll show her I still care

[Bassoutcast]

The holiday's tomorrow... . I could really use some help... .

[123Phoebe]

I feel like I should just text her "I'm always here for you" or something along that line.

From my perspective, having broken up with someone before (many moons ago, when I was a youngin' like you), I would be freaked out by a text like that.  I know I can't compare that relationship to yours, but one of the reasons for our breakup was because he was always there!  It felt like I couldn't do anything (not anything "wrong" or "bad" without him knowing about it or wanting to know about it.  I had no freedom, even if freedom was in the constructs of my mind.  I have a sneaking suspicion she knows you're there for her, Bass.

[Bassoutcast]

I feel like I should just text her "I'm always here for you" or something along that line.

From my perspective, having broken up with someone before (many moons ago, when I was a youngin' like you), I would be freaked out by a text like that.  I know I can't compare that relationship to yours, but one of the reasons for our breakup was because he was always there!  It felt like I couldn't do anything (not anything "wrong" or "bad" without him knowing about it or wanting to know about it.  I had no freedom, even if freedom was in the constructs of my mind.  I have a sneaking suspicion she knows you're there for her, Bass.

You have a point... . I has ALWAYS there for her, on the verge of obsession... . I did a check-up on her online status yesterday, she hasn't been online since the day I stopped playing games with her (which is 9 days ago). I don't let it bother me as much, last time she wasn't online I had our mutual friend check up on her to see if she's ok, but not this time.

Someone on another BPD forum told me "BPD tend to end things abruptly and then keep you in the fold because they like the though of holding onto you, and by playing into her games you show her you're still around and that gives her power over you, enabling further manipulation. the only way to win this is to walk away".

[123Phoebe]

I feel like I should just text her "I'm always here for you" or something along that line.

From my perspective, having broken up with someone before (many moons ago, when I was a youngin' like you), I would be freaked out by a text like that.  I know I can't compare that relationship to yours, but one of the reasons for our breakup was because he was always there!  It felt like I couldn't do anything (not anything "wrong" or "bad" without him knowing about it or wanting to know about it.  I had no freedom, even if freedom was in the constructs of my mind.  I have a sneaking suspicion she knows you're there for her, Bass.

You have a point... . I has ALWAYS there for her, on the verge of obsession... . I did a check-up on her online status yesterday, she hasn't been online since the day I stopped playing games with her (which is 9 days ago). I don't let it bother me as much, last time she wasn't online I had our mutual friend check up on her to see if she's ok, but not this time.

Someone on another BPD forum told me "BPD tend to end things abruptly and then keep you in the fold because they like the though of holding onto you, and by playing into her games you show her you're still around and that gives her power over you, enabling further manipulation. the only way to win this is to walk away".

Do you think your ex ended things abruptly or looking back, perhaps there were signs of trouble "within" the relationship along the way.

How do you know for sure that she even has BPD?

[Bassoutcast]

I feel like I should just text her "I'm always here for you" or something along that line.

From my perspective, having broken up with someone before (many moons ago, when I was a youngin' like you), I would be freaked out by a text like that.  I know I can't compare that relationship to yours, but one of the reasons for our breakup was because he was always there!  It felt like I couldn't do anything (not anything "wrong" or "bad" without him knowing about it or wanting to know about it.  I had no freedom, even if freedom was in the constructs of my mind.  I have a sneaking suspicion she knows you're there for her, Bass.

You have a point... . I has ALWAYS there for her, on the verge of obsession... . I did a check-up on her online status yesterday, she hasn't been online since the day I stopped playing games with her (which is 9 days ago). I don't let it bother me as much, last time she wasn't online I had our mutual friend check up on her to see if she's ok, but not this time.

Someone on another BPD forum told me "BPD tend to end things abruptly and then keep you in the fold because they like the though of holding onto you, and by playing into her games you show her you're still around and that gives her power over you, enabling further manipulation. the only way to win this is to walk away".

Do you think your ex ended things abruptly or looking back, perhaps there were signs of trouble "within" the relationship along the way.

How do you know for sure that she even has BPD?

There were a few minor fights about this subject, the last of which resulted in her asking some space for herself (which lasted a day, she contacted me again), but overall the relationship seemed to work out great, she was happier each time I visited her.

How do I know she has BPD? for starters a good psychiatrist diagnosed her as such. looking back there were A LOT of BPD signs in the relationship, often minor ones but still. She painted her family black (never have I heard a single good word about them, despite seeing they clearly cared about her). our first "fight" was about her wanting to spend time with her family and I didn't understand why she would do that, considering she hated them so much and waited for the day she moved out, and my lack of understanding caused her to cry. She often would harm herself (especially in the early stages of the r/s) just "for fun", tried to kill herself twice because "she couldn't handle it anymore". Subtle things I said made her change her personality, like when she asked what my parents thought about her and I said my dad thought she was laughing a lot... .SHE STOPPED LAUGHING almost entirely... . things like that and much more... . always the victim, never to blame.

[123Phoebe]

How do you know for sure that she even has BPD?

How do I know she has BPD? for starters a good psychiatrist diagnosed her as such.

Oh okay, do you know if she's seeing a therapist regularly?  Have you considered talking to one to help sort through all of this?

The main thing to keep in mind, is ourselves; you're doing a good job of this already   Keep the focus on yourself, Bass.  The feelings that come up in you, the things you feel compelled to say and do, the reasons behind your actions-- how you might rationalize them, catch those thoughts and examine them; do they align with your core values?  For me anyway, I would guess at all those things concerning my partner, leaving myself in the dark; I'd put so much focus on him, forgetting that I was there, too.

About the concert... .  What's your stance on that, today? 

I'd try to keep all of this in perspective and keep it as simple as possible.  No love-bombing!   Not even in your mind

[Bassoutcast]

How do you know for sure that she even has BPD?

How do I know she has BPD? for starters a good psychiatrist diagnosed her as such.

Oh okay, do you know if she's seeing a therapist regularly?  Have you considered talking to one to help sort through all of this?

The main thing to keep in mind, is ourselves; you're doing a good job of this already  Keep the focus on yourself, Bass.  The feelings that come up in you, the things you feel compelled to say and do, the reasons behind your actions-- how you might rationalize them, catch those thoughts and examine them; do they align with your core values?  For me anyway, I would guess at all those things concerning my partner, leaving myself in the dark; I'd put so much focus on him, forgetting that I was there, too.

About the concert... .  What's your stance on that, today?  

I'd try to keep all of this in perspective and keep it as simple as possible.  No love-bombing!  Not even in your mind

No. I don't think she's seeing a therapist. she only saw one a couple of times after her attempted suicide - just enough to get her diagnosed with BPD and get some antidepressants, and when she started to run out of pills, despite being specifically told to not stop taking them on her own terms, she did. Always had an excuse why she didn't go see him.

Tried to request her on Instagram again after feeling so lonely - what a surprise, she denied my request. I get it, I'll stop, it's an addiction. I'm addicted to the highs of our relationship, not to her per say. Heck - the main reason I  asked her out on a date in the first place because everyone around us were telling me how cute we looked together and we should totally be a couple ... .despite me having no attraction to her at the time, I saw her as a good friend, nothing more, guess that's my DPD who made my decision for me... . Actually thought about leaving her a couple of times during the relationship because I didn't know how I felt about her (sudden pulses, between idealization), but I was so afraid she might harm herself or worse (She did tell me - "If anything happened to you, I'd kill myself", and when someone who already tried to commit suicide twice tells you that - you take this into VERY SERIOUS CONSIDERATION). I'm glad to say it doesn't hurt nearly as much to see her decline my message now because I'm emotionally stronger (though not strong enough to maintain NC for a long time, it would seem).

Regarding the concert - I don't know. If anything, I'll contact her around a week before it's due - which would be in 5 weeks from now, but I don't know if I should. everything until now has been clear - she doesn't want contact with me/she's not ready to have contact with me. If she's lonely and wants to go - I guess she can call me, right? (assuming she hasn't deleted my number yet, who knows).

I'm starting to realize that despite my feelings for her, it's not as much "her" as I crave - it's that feeling of being loved, sharing your every moment with a person you feel comfortable with, the intimacy and connection between you and another person, that's what I miss. Sure, there aren't a lot of women I even find remotely interesting (the typical "2015 girl" doesn't interest me one bit, and in my ex's defense - she was unique - a "tomboy" yet very gentle, a red-headed rocker girl lots of eyeliner, similar values, life stories, you name it... .)

I guess I just hate being alone so much... . but I'm slowly getting used to it again. been alone my entire life.

[123Phoebe]

Regarding the concert - I don't know. If anything, I'll contact her around a week before it's due - which would be in 5 weeks from now, but I don't know if I should. everything until now has been clear - she doesn't want contact with me/she's not ready to have contact with me. If she's lonely and wants to go - I guess she can call me, right? (assuming she hasn't deleted my number yet, who knows).

Well, again, that's your call.  The reason I suggested it is because it's something tangible, it's something real between you two; you both like the bands.  It's not loaded with emotion, I didn't think.  And it's not a vague request, giving someone else a reason to fill in their own blanks.

There are a lot of articles like the one you mentioned, online.  Here's a link that might help make sense of where that author is coming from: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=148844.50.

What I took from the waif article, if it explains your position nicely is this... .  Does your ex remind you of your mom and in what ways?

Hang in there... .  We get attached to these "relationships" for a reason, and we're the other 1/2 of it and that's not even the 1/2 of it.

[Bassoutcast]

Regarding the concert - I don't know. If anything, I'll contact her around a week before it's due - which would be in 5 weeks from now, but I don't know if I should. everything until now has been clear - she doesn't want contact with me/she's not ready to have contact with me. If she's lonely and wants to go - I guess she can call me, right? (assuming she hasn't deleted my number yet, who knows).

Well, again, that's your call.  The reason I suggested it is because it's something tangible, it's something real between you two; you both like the bands.  It's not loaded with emotion, I didn't think.  And it's not a vague request, giving someone else a reason to fill in their own blanks.

There are a lot of articles like the one you mentioned, online.  Here's a link that might help make sense of where that author is coming from: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=148844.50.

What I took from the waif article, if it explains your position nicely is this... .  Does your ex remind you of your mom and in what ways?

Hang in there... .  We get attached to these "relationships" for a reason, and we're the other 1/2 of it and that's not even the 1/2 of it.

My ex does, in many ways, remind me of my mother. My mother's mood would often affect mine, especially during early childhood. If she was upset and I did something which, in some way, would boost her anger (like inviting a friend over when she's asleep) - she'd yell, curse and sometimes even beat me because of it, and I would tolerate it (what other choice does a child have). Told my teacher once after she confiscated a toy that if my mom finds out she'll beat me, she gave it back and had a talk with my mom - after which my mom beat me. She would never hit my sister, and because I was raised to believe that if someone does something not according your way you have to physically punish them - I made my little sister's early childhood a living nightmare, "taking my mother's place". (Although I did apologize countless times years later and now my sister and I have a great bond).

When I was a teen my mom would be passive-aggressive about things, I always had to please her (chores, school, behavior), and every time I didn't live up to her expectations I'd be punished - not physically, but mentally (she'd belittle me around her friends, she'd take away things I enjoyed like video games for months and made me live up to her expectations in order to "earn them back", sometimes would playfully insult me), and my dad would always try to bridge the gap between us... .which ultimately resulted in me having a great, trusting bond with him, and even though I can have a conversation with my mother and even share things - Deep down I'm afraid of her. The constant need for approval and me always being to blame is similar in my r/s with my ex. I loved her, but I was so afraid and paranoid she might leave me, see me as something I'm not, belittle me. When my parents split up (mainly b/c of financial issues) I was petrified my ex would do the same to me, that even though she loved me she'll kick me out because I wasn't making enough money (even to a point where I saw her ATM balance was slightly larger than mine and got really depressed about it) .

I'll try contacting her before the concert - better than running into her and being met with a "go away".

[123Phoebe]

Bassoutcast, it's cool how you're so honest about all of this. 

I was talking with someone recently and during the conversation they said, "If we could only see ourselves the way others see us".  We both laughed and decided it's probably a good thing it doesn't happen that way 100% of the time, because others would see themselves the way we see them too and it changes like the direction of the wind; talk about confusing!  It's better to have a good sense of self, clear, kind and (not brutally) honest in our communications and la la la to how other's perceive it, if they don't ask for clarification.  They're going to see us the way they want to see us.  We do the same thing.

With that being said, having a good sense of self is not indicative to how others see us.  It does allow for more empathy towards ourselves and others, when we go through the process of figuring out who we are, why we might do and want the things we do and how we got to this point.  Also knowing that we'll never have all the answers and it's okay.  What's life without a little mystery? 

Acceptance is a beautiful thing.

Over on the Leaving board there are 5 links to "Attachment leads to suffering, Detachment leads to freedom", I've included them here:

1- https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/01.htm

2- https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/02.htm

3- https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/03.htm

4- https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/04.htm

5- https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/05.htm

I've been with my partner for many years and I'm still learning all kinds of things about myself.  Detaching, the way those links describe, to me, means un-enmeshing.  To stop the suffering that's involved with being codependent.  To build up a strong(er) sense of self.  To help make staying or leaving an easier choice.  To hold on to ourselves, don't abandon ourselves. 

I'll try contacting her before the concert - better than running into her and being met with a "go away".

Give yourself (and her) some time... .  Let go of any outcome  

Detach.

I sincerely hope you enjoy that concert regardless of what she does or doesn't do.  Also, not that we can compare relationships, but a concert is exactly where bf and I reconnected our sexual relationship.  So, take what I say with a grain of salt and follow your own path... .  Detachment was key though

[Bassoutcast]

Bassoutcast, it's cool how you're so honest about all of this. 

I was talking with someone recently and during the conversation they said, "If we could only see ourselves the way others see us".  We both laughed and decided it's probably a good thing it doesn't happen that way 100% of the time, because others would see themselves the way we see them too and it changes like the direction of the wind; talk about confusing!  It's better to have a good sense of self, clear, kind and (not brutally) honest in our communications and la la la to how other's perceive it, if they don't ask for clarification.  They're going to see us the way they want to see us.  We do the same thing.

With that being said, having a good sense of self is not indicative to how others see us.  It does allow for more empathy towards ourselves and others, when we go through the process of figuring out who we are, why we might do and want the things we do and how we got to this point.  Also knowing that we'll never have all the answers and it's okay.  What's life without a little mystery? 

Acceptance is a beautiful thing.

Over on the Leaving board there are 5 links to "Attachment leads to suffering, Detachment leads to freedom", I've included them here:

1- https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/01.htm

2- https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/02.htm

3- https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/03.htm

4- https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/04.htm

5- https://bpdfamily.com/detaching/05.htm

I've been with my partner for many years and I'm still learning all kinds of things about myself.  Detaching, the way those links describe, to me, means un-enmeshing.  To stop the suffering that's involved with being codependent.  To build up a strong(er) sense of self.  To help make staying or leaving an easier choice.  To hold on to ourselves, don't abandon ourselves. 

I'll try contacting her before the concert - better than running into her and being met with a "go away".

Give yourself (and her) some time... .  Let go of any outcome  

Detach.

I sincerely hope you enjoy that concert regardless of what she does or doesn't do.  Also, not that we can compare relationships, but a concert is exactly where bf and I reconnected our sexual relationship.  So, take what I say with a grain of salt and follow your own path... .  Detachment was key though

Thanks for the links, I found them insightful. I took the personality test and scored crazy (literally) high scores... .around 60-80% in most of them. Most dominant ones - Antisocial, Paranoid and Dependent.

What do you mean by "Giving myself and her some time and letting go of any outcome" - I did not quite understand what you meant.

Thanks for sharing about your own experience with your partner - it does give me some hope.

[123Phoebe]

I took the personality test and scored crazy (literally) high scores... .around 60-80% in most of them. Most dominant ones - Antisocial, Paranoid and Dependent.

How interesting... . 

What do you mean by "Giving myself and her some time and letting go of any outcome" - I did not quite understand what you meant.

By waiting until closer to the concert date to contact her, you're giving yourself some time to detach from the old relationship.  Grieve the old relationship and let it go, come to acceptance that it it didn't work out the way you had hoped it would.  Give her some time (space and freedom) to do whatever it is she's doing, but you aren't involved.  That means, no Instagram invites or anything that might resemble your old coping methods or ways of relating to her.  Something she has already rejected. 

I wouldn't put all my eggs in the concert basket.  She might be totally done. 

The idea is to get to a point that no matter what happens, you will be okay and not pining for what could have been.  Realizing that what could have been was a fantasy, because essentially it is over. 

In order to start anew, you have to mean it, it has to be real; a new beginning.  No mind games.  Take the emotional overload out of it.  If she doesn't answer and you have to leave a message, "Hi, her name, just wondering if you're going to the concert or if you'd like to go?  Give me a buzz back when you can.  Thanks."  (or however you want to phrase it).  Then let it go.

If you happen to run into her at the concert and you're met with a "go away", well, it's not much different than what you've already experienced.  It stinks, but hey... .  There are other fish in the sea... .  Plus there's you to look after, your life, your future... .

I'm not trying to minimize your feelings, Bass.  This is a lot easier said than done.  We have no control over how others feel about things.  While you might realize she's not the girl of your dreams... .

[Bassoutcast]

Oh, now I understand. Thanks for clarifying.

I already feel much better ever since I've stopped viewing her profile, looking for the slightest "clues" she might still be playing with me, anything. I understand she might be totally done, and that's acceptable. I can't force myself onto anyone else. Maybe she'll be cold before/during the concert, maybe she needs more time, but it's not my call.

I keep telling myself that SHE dumped ME, she is my EX, and whatever responsibility I might have had on her during our relationship is no longer mine BY HER CHOICE. Being met with a "go away" in person sucks much more than being rejected online (plus, if I'm around her in-person it's much harder to ignore me, and I seriously doubt her making a scene surrounded by literally thousands of people. Might be awkward. Oh well, I'm prepared to face the worst).

Heard a saying recently "You came into my life for a reason - either you're a blessing or a lesson". Currently she fits the second one.

There are probably other red-headed rockers out there somewhere... .

[Mike-X]

Heard a saying recently "You came into my life for a reason - either you're a blessing or a lesson."

Nice!

[Bassoutcast]

Currently in depression... .tears running down my eyes, feelings of helplessness... .My head is spinning, I feel empty inside, entire body going into a numb state... .I just want to leave a note saying ":)on't come looking for me", take away some camping equipment and just go wherever my legs take me... .

Noticed I'm starting to get a weird psychological effect lately - each time I would feel like my mother dislikes me, or she would do things to raise my anxiety, I'll become sick in-order for her to take care of me... .happened 3 times this month alone... . 

Little sister broke a promise... .I felt helpless and disappointed,  threw something on the ground, walked away, drank some water, back to depression... .my dog came around, I'm sitting and quietly petting him... .