Question ? Do BPD really fall in love ? Do they ever experince a broken heart ?

[DyingLove]

Wow I'm two months out from the end of my two year with my ex gf and I wonder this. The way you talked about the cuddling at night made me cry. Yes I miss what others say the passionate sex etc but right now as my kids are sleeping this is what I'm missing. I did find out thru a friend that she is already dating again after less than two months. New guy is a total downgrade. Just kills me we dated two years lived together seven months and now I'm just a distant memory. She would spoon me in a way that physically calmed me down and calmed her down... .how she just threw me away and my kids that she said she loved. The kids lived with us three nights a week. Now we are nothing. Ugh. I had to move in with my parents and she's in the apartment we shared. I thought she was the love I waited for. I had a marriage that wasn't fulfilling. My ex gf and I shared things I never shared with my ex wife. I hate this

confusedinWi,

Your post sounds nearly exactly like something I would have written.  I can hear and feel your pain. My r/s was 4 years and I'm n/c 42 days. The cuddling, the sleeping the discarding you.  It's all the same as mine.  She had the kid, and I didn't discard her... .but I did have to make a decision and I realize that being out of the kids life is better and less stressful for the kid.  I'd hate this kid to have to see what her mom might do in the future as far as partners.  The little girl would call me daddy.  I loved it... .made me feel so attached. Her biodad didn't like it, but he was a scu*bag. So she pulled out the rug from under me too. I was more intimate with her than anyone ever before. And she hurt me the worse too.  I fell hard hard hard for her.  I found out last night thru a mutual friend that she still loves me.  This litterally threw a wrench in the gears and I'm rethinking this from square one.  Thank God for this board and the wonderful wonderful people that help us and have gone thru hell.  Amen.

[Deeno02]

I dont feel mine did. I was a rebound after her husband bailed. I was just an ego boost until her life rebooted again, and then i was pushed away and finally dumped. Week later shes with an old college friend more suitable to her friends and lifestyle. Thats been 8 months now and it kills me. The hurt that I didnt really matter all that much has shattered me. Good guys do finish last.

[Achaya]

Thanks for your response to my post, Reforming! I do think that the self-esteem issue that drives the need for idealization is important in this issue, i.e., the issue of why we get so hung up on whether our former partners "really" loved us.

There is a school of psychoanalytic psychology known as Self Psychology where they talk about relating to another person as "a self-object." The self-object reflects back images of the partner that are needed to support positive self-esteem. I think this school of psychology takes the position that self-object relating is normal and healthy even in adults. Of course the more wounded we are in some area of our self-images, the more needy we are for the person who provides the antidote. PwBPD are really good at providing the antidote for certain kinds of self-esteem problems.

Ironically, the thing my ex said that had the most seductive power to me was her telling me that she loved and wanted me as I am, not as an ideal lover. I had learned plenty about the pitfalls of idealization during previous relationships, and I no way wanted a partner who had me confused with some ideal image. I see now that I had such a strong need to be loved for who I am that I was very gullible. I know that it takes a few years before intimate partners get to know each other well enough to have a realistic idea about who the other person is. I had not been with my partner more than months when she started telling me how much she loved me as I am. If I hadn't been so needy I would have recognized that she didn't know who I was at that point.

I do think, however, that there is a sense of connectivity that has nothing to do with idealizing processes. The connection I crave and value is created more from an emotional or intuitive sensitivity. In the relationships I have been a part of over the years, the ability to feel connection has varied quite a bit. With my most recent partner, when we felt disconnected we both could become aware of it, although one person might be the first to point it out. We could in most cases find a way to reconnect once we had discovered the disconnect, and we would have the same experience of when the connection was restored. This was for me a key reason for valuing this relationship, as I know that not all couples have this level of sensitivity to the level of connection, and not many have the ability to restore connections as easily as we did. Of course, I am not talking about the long stretches of time when my partner disconnected (from "everything," according to her). At those times I could not reach her in the usual ways and would become very anxious about what was going on, especially after I learned that she did completely disengage from our relationship at those times.

I think that many pwBPD have exceptional sensitivity, and when they feel safe, it is possible for them to create deep emotional connections with people. I am very sensitive also, and when two people have this going on, the level of intimacy that results can be breathtaking. It does, however, foster feelings of fusion, and I suppose that a couple would have to be vigilant about balancing that with ongoing work on boundaries, separation and so on. I don't know if many pwBPDs are up to that task. By the time too much enmeshment develops, they are already on their way out.

[louisnorman]

I ask the same question about the relationship I had with my BPD wife, was the four years a lie or was there love.  I can not help but remember the things that were said that sounded so good but to only find out hrs later she was with someone else. She has finally found the help she needs but there will never be us again after all the lies there could never be trust again. It was so bad if she said the sky was blue I had to look.

[Reforming]

Hi Achaya

It was a good post.

"There is a school of psychoanalytic psychology known as Self Psychology where they talk about relating to another person as "a self-object." The self-object reflects back images of the partner that are needed to support positive self-esteem. I think this school of psychology takes the position that self-object relating is normal and healthy even in adults. Of course the more wounded we are in some area of our self-images, the more needy we are for the person who provides the antidote. PwBPD are really good at providing the antidote for certain kinds of self-esteem problems."

I think there's a lot of truth in this. Their extreme sensitivity to our moods, facial expressions and body language can make them seem very attuned to our needs. I think this is also one of the reasons why they can find intimate relationships so difficult to sustain - being so other centred is exhausting and stressful

"I do think, however, that there is a sense of connectivity that has nothing to do with idealizing processes. The connection I crave and value is created more from an emotional or intuitive sensitivity. In the relationships I have been a part of over the years, the ability to feel connection has varied quite a bit. With my most recent partner, when we felt disconnected we both could become aware of it, although one person might be the first to point it out. We could in most cases find a way to reconnect once we had discovered the disconnect, and we would have the same experience of when the connection was restored. This was for me a key reason for valuing this relationship, as I know that not all couples have this level of sensitivity to the level of connection, and not many have the ability to restore connections as easily as we did."



I think a lot of borderlines are very bright and emotionally sensitive and that is part of what makes these relationships so compelling. I also think that there are lots of NONs who struggle with intimacy and real connection. You could argue that neither are really healthy

The difficulty with the connection that we can feel with borderlines is that it's rarely secure or sustainable.

"I think that many pwBPD have exceptional sensitivity, and when they feel safe, it is possible for them to create deep emotional connections with people. I am very sensitive also, and when two people have this going on, the level of intimacy that results can be breathtaking. It does, however, foster feelings of fusion, and I suppose that a couple would have to be vigilant about balancing that with ongoing work on boundaries, separation and so on. I don't know if many pwBPDs are up to that task. By the time too much enmeshment develops, they are already on their way out."

Feeling safe and trust seem to be massive issues for pwBPD. Their sensitivity can make them hyper vigilant to any hint of abandonment or rejection. I think that can make romantic attachments very challenging for them and for us. Some couples do manage to sustain these relationships, but it's requires a lot of self awareness and skill from both the NON and the pwBPD.

Really interesting post. Keep sharing

Reforming

[apollotech]

"For me personally, I think they experience infatuation and have a idealized view of what love and a relationship should look like and when the newness wears off there is nothing there.  I am not sure they experience what we know to be real love."

My experiences/beliefs are aligned with what leftconfused said. My BPDexgf actually told me that she was infatuated with everything about me. Those statements always concerned me as I know that infatuations never last; they are fleeting. Unfortunately I didn't know that I was dealing with a pwBPD at the time, so I just accepted her comments as adoration. Infatuation also explains why they move in and out of relationships so quickly and easily: no deep attachment. This also displays emotional immaturity as an emotional matured person would recognize the infatuation for what it is, possibly only a crush.

[Achaya]

Apollo tech, I have to agree with your evidence that the BPD version of love may be more like infatuation than a deeper love.I hate to think of that being true in my own situation, but I have thought about it. My ex always left her relationships before 5 years, and from what she told me, she was disengaging from them for years before she left. That means she was emotionally in her relationships less than 2 years. I would have to say that a feeling of love that lasts less than 2 years is based mostly on fantasy.

I hesitate to attribute my partner's declining emotional investment to any normal phenomenon, however, like a stale infatuation. Most people have experienced infatuation in their lives, but they haven't remained stuck at that level of involvement with everyone they meet. And even infatuation doesn't usually wear off so fast and so hard you feel like you've been knocked out. My ex herself told me more than once that the "roller coaster" pattern in our relationship was being caused by her own "brokenness." She said it was a familiar pattern and that it had happened in all her previous romantic relationships.

I do find myself sometimes doing what you are doing, explaining the pwBPD's incapacity for love in terms of normal romantic relating. Doing that actually makes me feel worse, like the love of my life just got tired of me after a year and a half. Maybe she does think of our history that way, but she is not a credible source of insight into herself or our relationship dynamics. My impression is that she spent very little time thinking about our failing relationship. She always had other things that preoccupied her and took priority over our relational needs.She did this so intensively it was obvious she was trying to avoid me and to reduce the intensity of our relationship. This was directly contrary to my agenda and so we had an increasing amount of conflict.

Thank you for your post. Responding to you has clarified my understanding of what is going on with me. I hope our exchange has been as helpful to you. Best of luck to you as well in your recovery work!

[Achaya]

Reply to Reforming's Reply to My Post:

"Their extreme sensitivity to our moods, facial expressions and body language can make them seem very attuned to our needs. I think this is also one of the reasons why they can find intimate relationships so difficult to sustain - being so other centred is exhausting and stressful "

Yes, my ex used to scrutinize me, especially in the beginning of the relationship and when she was anxious about us. She also used to ask me incessantly what I was thinking. This frustrated me because I didn't want to just be in a relationship with myself. I could already do that very well. I wanted her to talk about her own thoughts. I kept trying to gently pry her attention off me without acting irritated, because that was very threatening to her in this context.

"The difficulty with the connection that we can feel with borderlines is that it's rarely secure or sustainable."

Reforming, this is the precise source of the heartbreak for me. You have laid your finger upon it exactly. I have been coming to terms with this truth gradually over the course of the past several years. A few weeks ago, when I recognized that my partner was pulling away again, I let go of most of the hope I have had for our relationship. I started to think about the fact that I prioritize closeness with my partner over most other things in my life, whereas my partner had been actively avoiding close contact with me for years. I asked myself what other competing priority was so important to her that she sacrifices our connection for it. When I thought about the personal issues that my partner had described as distressing for her, I realized that they were mostly about her identity, her life direction, her purpose, her self-esteem, and her internal relationships with herself generally. She seldom talked to me of needing intimacy, even though she still reacted with abandonment anxiety if I turned my attention away from her for too long a time. Once I had recognized that my partner was struggling to define who she was, I also thought that her lack of self-definition had something to do with her instability in relationships. If my partner didn't know herself she couldn't make an emotional commitment to another person; I had to stop expecting that she would commit to me. And, I have some sense of how much time and how much life experience it would take for her to clarify and stabilize her sense of self. I knew then that we were out of time.

Apparently, there was some parallel train of thought going on in my partner. When she left me she told me she needed to see what she could find in her own life. (I didn't know before this that she felt she was living in my life, not her own). I didn't ask any more about why she was leaving me because I didn't want to hear about it, but what my partner had said fit well with what I had been thinking about her. Her business should be with herself and not with me. I suspect she will dive headlong into another relationship as soon as possible, but maybe I am not giving her enough credit. At any rate, I can't stick around to see how her story turns out. I have to get back to my own story.

In my own mind, I replaced myself with her at the center, and that is how it has been for about five years.When she left me last week I felt like my life was ending. I am healthy enough from the therapy I have been doing, that I knew this was an irrational thought, but I couldn't imagine any positive future without my partner.

I am just now seeing that the questions about whether my ex partner "really" loved me or whether her heart feels broken by our breakup are aimed in the wrong direction. My partner was unable to sustain the wonderful connections that we experienced together, and she isn't motivated or able to change in this respect. I have learned from this website that the off/on, hot/cold relating pattern is typical of people with BPD, and since she has been diagnosed multiple times with that disorder, I think that settles the question of why she couldn't stay in relationship to me. I think she acted correctly in breaking up with me, because she needs to work on herself a lot before she can become able to provide the kind of partnership I need.

I still hurt a lot, but this understanding gives me a lot of peace. Thanks so much everybody for participating on this thread. The discussion has been awesome!

[apollotech]

"My impression is that she spent very little time thinking about our failing relationship. She always had other things that preoccupied her and took priority over our relational needs.She did this so intensively it was obvious she was trying to avoid me and to reduce the intensity of our relationship."


Achaya,

Thank you for your post. I know all about this behavior (quoted above). My ex kept me and our relationship on the back burner. I played second fiddle to anything that came up. Her marginalizing me that way, our relationship, was really very hurtful. It certainly made me feel that she basically saw me and our relationship to be of little value (That did not make me think that I or our relationship was of little value.).

I became a trigger to her within a month of our beginning. The push/pull started, and it all went to hell in a hand basket. Seven months later I severed all contact. After the first recycle began, I became a soother more than anything else. Her infatuation of me  was gone, and I became just a somebody to use. Looking back, I can now see how utterly immature she was in regards to what a real relationship entails. Her BPD selfishness just consumed everything.

This woman had been a very loved and valued friend to me in childhood; now we don't even speak. It's a very sad situation. I am daily getting better. I hope that you are recovering as well.

[dobie]

My ex always left her relationships before 5 years, and from what she told me, she was disengaging from them for years before she left. That means she was emotionally in her relationships less than 2 years. I would have to say that a feeling of love that lasts less than 2 years is based mostly on fantasy.

Thanks so much for this , this is exactly what happened to me the fact your x is diag as well solves a question for me . mine was just in the r/s for the last year or so out of need comfort etc anything else going on took priroty over me or us

[guy4caligirl]

Wow very true statement !

This should give some incite ,while researching  to find a cure or help treating BPD this might shed a light on why they start that devaluating the RS in early stages within themselves and don't ever try to work it out or iron up the small stuff that's mostly these contribute to the break of the RS  .

That's why we wonder or I wonder these ups and downs happened so frequently !

After this, I realize that's why they never get in it like we do none, they are in for a period of time and they the only ones that know it wont last for ever cause they cant handle it ,  I am stunned with this I am really !

have of the time we were sad in The RS is because they did not engage the other half is ups and downs  turned up to be Engage or Not Engage  . Terrible illness .

[guy4caligirl]

... .I might add I heard lately from my ex of five years and couldn't understand she mentioned after being with this new supply engaged guy that she will end up in another state two years from now , I guess she is already planning out to go somewhere else , it rings a bell now stunning !

[FannyB]

How did it make you feel guy that she was talking about how she loved her ex husband when she was with you?

Where you the rebound?

Hi Mutt. I felt fine with her telling me that she loved him when they married. It was positively re-assuring and part of a conversation where we discussed our failed marriages. And no, I came along about 10 years after her marriage ended so was not 'the rebound'.

[shatterd]

all the time i agree, there constant need to fill the void, useally with bad addictions, wen the addiction leves or the decide it isnt working anymore there quick to replace it. my opion my experiance

[FannyB]

Hi Mutt. I felt fine with her telling me that she loved him when they married. It was positively re-assuring and part of a conversation where we discussed our failed marriages. And no, I came along about 10 years after her marriage ended so was not 'the rebound'.

Just to clarify - she was talking about her feelings at the time of her marriage. She hates her husband now - he is the blackest of those painted black in her eyes. Classic BPD logic - placed on a pedestal followed by utter devaluation.

[drummerboy]

Totally agree.

To answer this question you first have to define love and that is probably a bit different for each of us. For me, love is a verb, to love is to give. My ex was so totally self absorbed she only knew how to take, everything was about her. I never saw her do anything for anyone else unless it was to get in someone's good books. So according to my definition of love she never loved me. But she was all over those tingly infatuation feelings and that was her level of love, the Disney fairytale kind of love. I'm sure if you asked her she would say she loved me. Towards the end she told her dad that "I've never loved a man like I love him" (me). On our last day together she said "I love you but I'm not in love with you" and this was a very telling statement. She loved the idea of "being in love" the infatuation stage but the act of real love is something she knew nothing about. A selfish, self absorbed person cannot love if you define love as giving.

I struggle with this as well.  Mine fell in love with me quickly.  He told me I was the best thing that ever happened to him, I was everything he ever wanted in a woman.  He never felt this way about anyone before, not even his ex wife.  then a few months later telling me he wasn't in love with me anymore and we just weren't meant to be.  UH WHAT?  That was when I knew for sure something wasn't right.  Love just doesn't go away like that.  We continued to see each off and on for months a few times he would tell me he did love me, but then turn around and say he doesn't remember saying it.  For me personally, I think they experience infatuation and have a idealized view of what love and a relationship should look like and when the newness wears off there is nothing there.  I am not sure they experience what we know to be real love.

[Reforming]

Hi Leftconfused

"For me, love is a verb, to love is to give. My ex was so totally self absorbed she only knew how to take, everything was about her. I never saw her do anything for anyone else unless it was to get in someone's good books. So according to my definition of love she never loved me."[/i]

Quite understandably in the circumstances I think we tend to focus on our common experience of BPD and sometimes we can lose sight of the fact that just like us each BPD is individual and unique.

My ex was and is capable of giving. At times she was very generous and she could also be cold and selfish. I remember someone saying to me once the real generosity is giving something away that is precious to you. I struggle with that sometimes. I find it easier to give what I can most afford

I think my ex really believed she loved me.  I also think that when she was dysregulated she definitely struggled to sustain and hold on to that feeling.

"On our last day together she said "I love you but I'm not in love with you" and this was a very telling statement"

Mine said the same thing, but it's also a catchphrase that's used at the end of a lot relationships . In fact a well know relationship counsellor used it for the title of his book. I bought it the year we broke up.

www.amazon.co.uk/Love-You-But-Not-Relationship/dp/0747585520

Drummerboy

"She loved the idea of "being in love" the infatuation stage but the act of real love is something she knew nothing about. A selfish, self absorbed person cannot love if you define love as giving."

I think they struggle to love us in the way that we need because they are frequently overwhelmed by feelings of fear, sadness and anger. I actually think they desperately want to love and be loved but their inherent instability makes that incredibly hard


"For me personally, I think they experience infatuation and have a idealized view of what love and a relationship should look like and when the newness wears off there is nothing there.  I am not sure they experience what we know to be real love."

I think both partners can be guilty of infatuation and dare I say idealisation. I ignored my exes red flags because of her idealisation of me. When reality started to creep in we both began to struggle

Interesting posts

Thanks for sharing

Reforming

[Copperfox]

Maybe a good time to repost this classic post from 2010 a few years back ... .PwBPD love, in their own way:

The Lonely vs. Abandoned Child

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=168086.0


Who really is the Borderline? Someone who needed you for awhile because they were scared to be alone. 

They’re still scared. Forgive them if you can- they are modern day recreations of their own childhood fears.

[jhkbuzz]

I think they struggle to love us in the way that we need because they are frequently overwhelmed by feelings of fear, sadness and anger. I actually think they desperately want to love and be loved but their inherent instability makes that incredibly hard.

When discussing BPD alone (and not BPD comorbid with NPD, for example), then that ^ is one of the truest things of all.

[joc1970]

Thank you for a wonderful thread. Learn a lot

[Achaya]

Does anybody know who wrote the brilliant article about the Lonely vs the Abandoned Child? I want to share this with my therapist, and would like to give credit to the author.

[Reforming]

Hi Achaya,

It was written by a member called 2010. You can fine her posts if you click on the members option and then do a members search.

Reforming

[Reforming]

I think they struggle to love us in the way that we need because they are frequently overwhelmed by feelings of fear, sadness and anger. I actually think they desperately want to love and be loved but their inherent instability makes that incredibly hard.

When discussing BPD alone (and not BPD comorbid with NPD, for example), then that ^ is one of the truest things of all.

I hear you JHK and there are definitely times when I look back at my exes behaviour during last part of my relationship and I think I she had transformed into a raging narcissist.  

I suppose as other have said our exes can often have a blend or combination of PDs. It's like trying to wrestle an octopus  

Reforming

[Mutt]

The thread has reached it's post limit and is locked. A similar or new topic of discussion is welcomed.